The addition of Robbie McEwen to the GCN team has added greater depth to their insights. I personally enjoy Dan Lloyd's analysis and self-effacing sense of humor (and let's not forget he rode both the Tour de France and the Giro). He may not have been competing at Chris Horner's level, but he does understand far more than he is being given credit for here. Conversely, I think that commentators like Carlton Kirby (who often sounds as though he is describing a horse race when it comes to sprint finishes) and Rob Hatch (with his emphasis on over-the-top pronunciations of riders names and races) cater to those who might casually tune in to bike racing. Also, Orla Chennaoui not only adds some glamor to proceedings, but she displays a deeper understanding of the sport than many. As someone who grew up racing when cycling barely made a line in the Monday morning papers, I am thrilled by the GCN coverage and by their efforts to educate newcomers to cycling, as well as lend insights to those who have ridden for years.
I think Robbie is one of the best. I enjoyed his commentary back when he and Mathew Keenan did the TDF on NBC Gold for a year or two. It was a nice alternative to the NBC TV broadcast and I learned quite a bit from them. Just thrilled to have alternatives and the ability to watch so many races.
Kirby is absolutely dire and should be put out to grass in my opinion. I'm glad someone has picked up on Hatch's grandstanding - he speaks more than one language, don't you know? 🤣 So do I but I would still pronounce all the names of the riders as the average English speaking person would. He really ticks me off 😁
Doing postrace podcasts ALWAYS gives you the 20/20 hindsight... Commentators calling live bikeraces for hours and hours will make mistakes and that's most often OK. Anyone who has tried to referee any kind of sport knows just how big the difference is between laying on the couch and yelling at refs, and making live calls on the spot on the field. The GCN commentators often seems to error on the positive side, like "oh that's a great move" "Well done" "he/she did his/her best", they are very rarely bluntly critical. I'll give you a dare Chris, do some pre race analysis, how would you set up the tactics for a certain team or, try your hand in predicting outcomes. That'll show another side of your analytical abilities.
Only problem with your explanation is that in the cases Chris mentions... they make the mistake in realtime.. then double down on the sh*t take in the post race as well.. so bottom line.. they just don't know what they are talking about 🤷🏾♂
@@drapetomaniack Chris' first point is a poor comparison of completely different situations. His second point is a fair criticism. For the third point I wouldn't put the blame on either rider. Degenkolb has every right to fight for his position. For the fourth point, completely fair assumption for someone to think Van Aert was unwilling to work with Van Der Poel because of their sprint history. E3 was a 3 group which is a big difference to a 2 group sprint. Definitely think scared was the wrong word to use. I think what the pundits were saying was when Van Der Poel attacked, WVA didn't pull because he wasn't as confident in his sprint as if he was with a Lampaert for example. The group would have never slowed down because Phillipsen was pulling. But no, by all means that means that they don't know what they are talking about because they have a couple poor opinions. May I add he is only talking about Dan Lloyd here, who is definitely not the sole commentator on GCN.
@@sean7098 Degenkob has every right to fight for position.. as does MVP.. Degenkob let MVP.. get his shoulders/bars ahead of his.. he GAVE UP his position.. that rule about the bars is not an arbitrary rule.. if sh*t goes down the guy with the bars behind WILL bite the dust as Degenkob did 🤷🏽♂️ THAT’s why you back off.. back off or die essentially.. he chose the latter.. And I felt they were off base with the VanAert is weak or scared or whatever they were trying to say.. imho he was on stellar legs.. wasn’t being he was cautious or scared even conservative.. he was riding SMART.. FOR ONCE!! Pogacar, Evenepoel.. now looks like VanAert have realized that when you’re among equals or even those only slightly below in ability.. sometimes smarts can trump legs.. and if you want to win ur gonna need both smarts and legs with this new crop of young insane level riders
@@drapetomaniack Well yes, we are in agreement with the first point. I agree with the second one as well, I would be use the word conservative but in a positive sense. Both smart and conservative.
@@sean7098 unless u changed you mind on fault for crash I think we disagree.. imho.. Degenkolb let a position open up and MVP took it.. safely.. Degenkolb gave up his position and then tried to take it back when he should have known he was almost certainly going to crash doing so.. then he crashed doing so rather that saying oops, I F’d that up little and just getting on MVP’s wheel and moving on .. I put the blame SQUARELY at Degenkolb’s feet..
As a cycling fan who’s never raced myself, I love the GCN coverage. I enjoy the commentary, and my feeling is that they’re working to present both an entertaining show that still manages to give me some insights into a fascinating sport and its strategy. I’m at awe with the depth of the level of strategy in the sport, and GCN has helped me to learn a lot. That said, last couple of years I’ve then learned to look forward immensely to Chris’ analysis 🦋, which lets me understand things on a much deeper level. To me it’s not either or. That’s the beauty of it. Hoping for Chris to be in the commentary box of GCN some day, but realize it’s probably not likely to happen. Grateful for the great work you do Chris! Thanks for everything you do for us cycling fans!
I disagree with you. They are giving a live commentary, so have to call it as they see it at the time. Without inside tactical information, they will sometimes get it right and sometimes get it wrong. They are sharing an opinion. Most have some professional experience, so they give us an interesting perspective. I don't always agree with their take on things, but I find their opinions entertaining and informative. Overall a good job.
Well said! I totally agree. On the whole I think they do a really good job. They don’t always get it right but it’s an off the cuff opinion in real time. Everything is easier with hindsight! Also, their coverage of the racing has been a game changer for me. Great service on the whole and I rate a number of the commentators quite highly.
I mean they are essentially an entertainment company, so their priority is to make it entertaining for the viewers vs getting every tactic right. I am a snowboarder and see this EVERY TIME a snowboarding event is aired on tv - the commentary is comically irrelevant to the actual sport. Is what it is. Glad to hear you go and provide your own insights.
Your comment is spot on. In Denmark we have the "main" channel for the general public, who only really watch cycling when a Dane is winning TdF, (not even in 2021, when Jonas took 2nd many hardly noticed!), but in 2022 everybody watched TdF, and since they generally don't know (and care!) much about cycling, all the emotional stuff on the "main" channel is just what they need. Fortunately, we have another channel for those interested in bike-races, where almost only former professional world tour riders and bike-race aficionados are running the show. Entertainment for the people, Analysis for the bike-race interested, and everybody is happy. I'm love Chris Horners channel, and it hurts a bit, that there are not more subscribers/viewers than what there are. But the market for deep analysis of bike races unfortunately isn't bigger than that, apparently.
I love the GCN platform but Chris is right in what he says and it's so fun how straight with the facts Chris always is. Keep the great content coming 👍👍
GCN do a brilliant job as far as I’m concerned with their bike racing coverage and their commentary line up….commentating on races is not all about what’s happening on the road; it’s about their thoughts, some inside knowledge, background to the stage and region and some gentle humour too. Dan was a pro too remember and a very self deprecating one too! People such as Carlton are real pro at what hey do and add a lot…..it’s hard to please all the people all of the time….appreciate your points too however…✊😀
Well said. The great thing about cycling is that there's always hypothetical situations that are up for interpretation, and different points of view are always welcome. I really enjoy GCN's coverage - their commentators and analysts are superb 95% of the time and always offer interesting points of view alongside clear passion for the sport. What's not to love? We need to respect differing opinions a little more, rather than looking to disagree with everything to generate views on RU-vid
@@jasoncdebussy that dude has been doing commentary as a job for ages and still makes so much mistakes. He doesn't understand the sport at all. He is so painful to hear. The others are pretty good though
The role of a commentator is often a thankless task. You are called out for what you say wrong more than what you say right from most people who don't have an idea of what is going on. That being said, with Chris' experience not only being a part of the coverage of the TdF in the US but commentating other races in the past, I think he is the sort of person to hold accountable what good or bad content is during a race. I've worked for 8 years as a freelance commentator and would love the chance to get some cycling commentary under my belt and if I ever did, someone like Chris would be one of the first people I would contact to get some understanding about the race, various tactics and small intricacies to look out for because it is so rare to find someone who has done it all. Tldr: it's okay to be critical but don't be critical to the point of abusive. The people commentating are people like you and I and while they want to do their job the best as possible, a deluge of hate won't help them!
GCN are discussing a lot of this after the race though - the screen shots Chris shows here are from their studio, not live commentary. They should have had plenty of time to review race footage vs doing it live. Also: tl;dr at the end of your comment is worthless, as you don't see it unless you've already taken the time to read it all - put it at the start if you want it to mean anything haha
I agree with much of what you say and especially about not taking it to the point of being abusive, but I don't think the commentators are just like you and me, unless you a professional cycliist, in case I apologise they are like you, just not me. I'd also say there are two types of commentator (and I found this video a little odd because I was expecting more discussion about in race commentary and not post race analysis, although oxygen the same people do both), there are three commentators like Carlton Kirby who is more there to just describe what's going on, set the scene, bring up things from the recent and even distant past that are relevant to the current race and riders in it, and then there are those that are there for their knowledge of being a rider and the tactics employed during races. I have no problem if those just setting the scene don't always get it right, but recently I've found it very difficult listening to Brian Smith and Adam Blyth (and at times Dan Lloyd, although at times he's ok, and is often more entertaining, so there's that). I've started to wonder if they are just wanting to keep in with the teams, not call anyone out because even during races I've started to think why is this team on the front of the peleton trying to bring the break back, giving the team of the leader of the race a free wheel, it makes no sense. I don't understand why those employed can't see this and at least offer both points of view. Lastly, and I think Chris did mention this in this video, he said what Bahrain Victorious did was ok if racing only to keep their second place, and this I think it's exactly what happened. With the way teams need points to keep their ICU World level status second place is probably what Bahrain were happy with, rather than risking putting Vingegaard under pressure, going for the win, and getting, I don't know, a sixth place finish. It's not what we want to see, but it's important to the team keeping their position, so it happens.
I always love this commentary but Chris does have the advantage of reviewing the race afterwards with extra time to assess what really happened. GCN to be fair doesn't have the extra time Chris has.
Plus they hope to get interviews from riders. So they have to/should try to stay positive. Chris doesn't so he is at liberty to kick them in the nuts while they are down. Meaning calling individuals knuckleheads when they loss a race due to tactics. That said I do love and watch every video Chris posts.
Commenting is about giving opinions…. You clearly don’t agree with a lot of GCN’s opinions fair enuff but you have to understand not everyone shares your opinion on matters of racing tactics…..
I love & Support GCN for the coverage, as you acknowledge, they put the money into what I haven’t had for most of my life - video coverage of bicycle races.
SeattleMarko - I am a GCN subscriber and Butterfly Effect Patreon subscriber (see Chris’s link below in his postings.) You know I love both of you… Chris, ouch! 🤯 GCN, ❤ you and know you mean well…sometimes the truth can hurt. 😏 You know it’s been my dream that Chris is a commentator pre, during, post race… on GCN. Come on you two, shake hands work together at/during monuments maybe a grand and/or weekly stage race or two and drive each of your respective viewerships through the roof!🥳 Keep preaching Chris, you educate us on the tactics of bike racing so damn well! 🙏
Yeaaahhh! Also Dutch I can confirm watching Belgium is like two people with a beer on the couch bantering about cycling. I have GCN for the coverage but what Belgium whenever possible. Really miss Michel Wuyts tho, that sucked but Belgium is still hella fun to watch, I laugh often.
Note that this is a very Anglo issue. As a french native speaker i do listen to the GCN/Eurosport french commentaries and they are a joy to hear, most of them being ex pro cyclists probably helps a lot. As far as i'm aware most people who listen to them quite love it, something which cannot be said for the english ones.
Compare the GCN english commentators to what we previously had in the US (or currently do): Phil/Paul, Bob Roll, Vandevelde. I'd take GCN over them every time (I did enjoy Bob back in the day though).
mvdp (did see Degenkolb before attacking on right) - beside mvdp did cause two similar accidents on this race ... The first rider did not crash but took to the fields ... his aggressive/intrusive riding is dangerous
Without GCN we'd never see most of the races in Canada. And I love listening to Carlton Kirby and Robbie McEwan. I don't care if the commentators talk about tactics, cycling is not the most exciting sport to watch sometimes and I don't need to be further bored with tactics.
Ha 100%. I love riding and racing, but can NOT watch more than 20 minutes of coverage before I get bored. A nice, 10 minute-ish highlight vid is perfection.
Dear Chris, I together with 60,700 subscribers absolutely enjoy your unmatched skillful analyses and insides. This brings me new perspectives and more enjoyment watching cycle races. Fur sure the JCN guys are several levels below you. But I think, by not being a knucklehead yourself, the trick is to work with them, not against them. Even Eddy Merckx couldn’t have won all the races if we wouldn't have shown respect to the domestiques. I think the group is always stronger than the individual. That being said, I really enjoy the way you are doing this channel! Thanks!
But didn't Eddy criticize Wout for allowing Christophe Laporte take the win at Gent Wevelgem? I don't think Eddy is as gracious or generous as Wout. But, that is why that team generally works so well together, no one seems to be self centered. If someone on the team wins they all win. Tadej has displayed that as well, however, he doesn't have the strength in numbers that Jumbo has, so it is not displayed a often.
Merckx was an animal and would have drafted his grandmother until she had a heart attack if he thought it would win him the race. Name me one of Merckx domestiques the honest way and I'll concede. BTW it's GCN.
@@M440iUK Éric Loder ~ I bought a Bernard Hinault "Lord Mega" from his shop in Genève, Suisse, in 1997 🚲😎 His son Thierry raced for Cofidis ~ fun to chat with when he was assembling bikes in the winter...
The analysis surrounding Wout was spot on. If he didn't puncture he goes to the line in a sprint with a slightly better than 50/50 shot. If you see interviews with Degenkolb he wasn't pointing fingers at anybody. It was one of those things that happen. But GCN is showing a lot of the races and with all due respect to Phil on NBC it's time to retire.
@@EpicCycling The interrupting drives me crazy, but I think it's due to Bob and him being in different areas of the world and there is a delay. Hence, one will start w/out the other knowing it and they step all over each other.
It’s not just Phil being past prime. Bob Roll is not a professional broadcaster. That Paris-Roubaix race call was torture. I wish NBC would at least give us the option of the Eurocom race call
Thank you Chris. You’re insightful analysis is very much appreciated. When I raced a long time ago, my only thoughts was not to get dropped; just wanted to finish with the leaders. It more survival than strategy.😊
I think GCN/Eurosport is massive value for the cycling fan. The commentators job is stop you changing channel and keep you subscribing, so in that respect, I think they are good. Finding out what happened when the dust settles is best done by Chris Horner. What is not to like?
I have to give it to GCN for giving womens professional cycling a leg up on coverage. I think it’s needed now more than ever. More cycling and more coverage is only good for the sport.
I’ve tried and tried, but cannot get into the women’s bike racing. It’s probably because it appears way too slow. It’s a bit like women’s football, I want it to be successful but my eyes are telling me this is terrible to watch. But yet I watch women’s skiing and triathlon.
@@iamthedalilama you know I understand but if I’m just pigging out on watching cycling or having it on in the background it’s not bad. Also nice to know what’s going on the sport in general.
Been watching pro cycling for over 40 years. Watching women’s cycling just doesn’t hold any interest for me and most of the guys I know never watch it either. Same goes for womens soccer, basketball etc.
I'm quite thankful too for GCN showing so many races like never before. Also it's nice to stream them later on if you got other stuff to do. Some documentaries are very interesting too (I recommend the one on SRM). On the other hand, yes, the commentary is often quite shallow and lacks focus. A pity Sean Kelly isn't on more often. They never seem to focus on the race and kind of more do a ..."tell what I am looking at". The German version is lacklustre too except for Bernhard Eisel,Robert Bengsch and Jeanclaude Leclerq. Then again ... gotta take it with a pinch of salt :) like everything. Really appreciate the huge coverage. For the deep cycling talk I come here.
I watch the tour de france and can’t wait for Chris to post his recap. He explains things they don’t explain live and from an aspect of a professional. He also explains the technical aspect like no one else. So many times he has said something and I thought, “Oh that’s why!”. Perhaps most impressive is how he just records and has no visible edits. It just flows. I don’t listen to other channels or podcasts. It’s not that they don’t have their value or place, I just only have time for one review and I choose the professional, Chris Horner, 2013 Vuelta Champion!
The vast majority of former and current professionals can't explain it very well. Chris does an excellent job. I've cycled with his cousin and she is intelligent and pleasant just like Chris. An absolute joy to cycle with.
Thanks Epic. Happy you are enjoying the channel. I won’t be working with NBC any more just here on TBE. Garrett my boy does all the editing and can make it look flawless most shoots unless I’m really bad that day but even then you would have to look very hard cause he’s great at it. 👊🦋
@@ChrisHornerCycling Yes sir! I haven't seen her in a while. I haven't been cycling in a while and now it is impossible as I have a dog that requires 24 hrs of attention. We had a dog party at our house years ago and Holly brought Hamilton her pig. He was a sweetie.
Dan Lloyd is an exceptionally good commentator. Compare his work to almost anyone on Eurosport, and he comes out as easily the best they have. Many of the commentators speak over each other, have no charisma, or seem to be in a constant state of confusion. I find this video odd, actually. Your analysis is excellent, but I wonder whether your live commentary would be superior to Dan Lloyd. Maybe it would. Maybe not.
Chris...I love your analysis of bicycle races. But I also love what GNC has done for cycling. Going from a very entertaining RU-vid channel, it has grown to be the most important distributor of cycle races of all types in the world. It has allowed fans like me to have the possibility of watching innumerable races that I had no access before them. Besides that, they present very interesting programs with new technology, documentaries, controversies, etc. For their races they bring in different commentators that may have different views and styles. And that makes it even more interesting. Most of us enjoy the races but also want to know the name of the church or castle being shown, as well as some of the history of the place, the race, previous runs, etc. And they deliver. Your analysis is clearly more focused for folks that want to learn about race strategy. Although fascinating for me and many, I think it would not be as interesting to many listeners. And this is true for most sports. So it's not a competition between you and them.
Chris' analysis is perhaps better than the GCN's presenters' and guests'. However, I don't think GCN deserves critique for this. Firstly for the non-live show, perhaps Chris' has better skills to analyse the situation: not everyone can be equally awesome. Would be good to see Chris on the world of cycling. And secondly for the live show, most of GCN commentators are doing their analysis almost in real time. They don't have the same time and space to rewind the footage and analysis the way Chris has for his videos. I super appreciate GCN and, even if the commentary is not always 100% on point, it's infinitely better than what was available to me before.
I love the GCN coverage and agree with others here about the commentators reacting to live events at all of these events. I thought that Adam Blythe and Robbie McCewan called the Paris Roubaix crash perfectly as a racing incident on the day. Degenkolb is a class act and deserves nothing but praise for his ride on the day.
GCN's monopoly over streaming is getting frustrating. They have a great amount of coverage but are extremely bias towards certain riders (Pogacar, Ineos, other British riders, etc). I just wish there were more alternative streaming providers.
That's your perception mate! I am English and I couldn't give a shit about Team Ineos! Team Ineos has 31 riders of which 10 are British. The other 21 riders are from 12 other nationalities.The rest of the team from management, doctors, mechanics, DS, chefs, admin etc etc consists of 96 people, of which 36 are British and the rest of the staff are from 21 different countries. 50% of the team's partners are British! GCN last year employed a new commentator Australian Robbie McEwen, he never stops mentioning the Australian riders, and I'm sure an American commentator would bang on about American riders, well what little there are of them? Anyway, thank god it is British base channel, because if the Americans got hold of it, i dread to imagine how they would fill it full of razzmatazz, cheerleaders, military fly pasts etc etc just like they have turned Formula 1 into a cheap gimmicky Dallas style puke fest, think yourself lucky its British!
Okay. Chris, big fan of yours, long-time fan of GCN for many years and I always credit GCN with bringing me to the cycling vid party, who knew our community of riders was such a big, cool deal? And with commentary, all just the way we call strikes and balls and I, for one, enjoy various perspectives on screen and in the comments. And Dan does a great job with his weekly news round-up and last Mondsy, I particularly appreciated the aerial stop-motion footage of the two Alpercin teammates' movement to the right and the moment John D. lost control of his bike as he maintained his line in the gutter to the right of the cobbles. So it goes both ways for fans like me, I appreciate GCN, I appreciate you. And if you had a call-in show, there'd be times when I'd be on the line like a passionate baseball fan, "Chris, you're wrong about this and don't gimme that jive about your quarter-century of racing ten-speeds all over the place." And it'd be fun to get all irate like a Red Sox or Yankees fan. 😂
I love GCN because they actually provide cycling races, not just talk about it, so they can say what they want, and then, Lanterne for real commentary and then if I need a third opinion, I will listen to you, but be good to see you as team director
I know right!? Ive been watching bike racing since the mid 80's on cbs sports where the commentary was so dumbed down and simplified for Americans. Now we have Chris Horner and Lanterne Rough really getting into more than just race tactics. This truly is the golden age of cycling now that we have gcn and a multitude of youtube cycling channels, podcasts and this new generation of powerhouse cyclists.
I am so with you there and that's why this crankin' by Chris is sort of boring, he is our main man here in the States and I am happy to be a little supporter, but this act of superiority over all other commentators is silly. Bike racing is entertainment and it is sport and it is sometimes herculean efforts worthy of our admiration. And tactics and travel and spectacle and all sorts of cool things, even nostalgia as many of us have been riding for decades and we had our times of great strength and exploits of bicycles and, even now in later years, benefit tremendously by our affiliation and participation in all of it and I certainly enjoy being a fan in the stands with a story or two or ten of personal experiences. And I do remember the Wide World of Sports days and they deserve tons of credit for giving us alternatives to ball sports and even introducing us to Evel Knievel. And then there was that glorious CBS/John Tesh coverage of the Tour de France in the '80s, only once a week but the high-water mark of its era. And I had a shortwave, a Sharp boombox, and I'd listen to the BBC sports coverage for a blurb or two about cycling, not much but better than nothing. And now, of course, there is too much content to consume and that is a bummer. But we can pace ourselves and make the most of it and I just hope this GCN bashing doesn't become a regular deal for Chris. There is too much better content to watch, like his regular commentaries, certainly, and i like most of what he says but not everything and that's okay, that's healthy because I have nearly 60 years of bike riding experience in the United States and Europe. And that counts for something. And I gotta tip my hat to my little buddies in a trailer park in Coalinga, California in 1965 for my start on a sunny day as a five-year-old on a full-size ladies bike. And they are pushing the bike at its rear rack and I am warbling and then they let go and I briefly experienced the joy of cycling for the first time. And we were laughing all the while. 😀
Great analysis, finally someone that tells it how it is, instead of trying to stir up drama by blaming riders that werent at fault. Then again, i do think that the reason WVA didnt want to work with MVDP (when they were away first) is because he felt more pressure than MVDP to win a classic, due MVDP already having won San Remo this season and the Tour of Flanders twice before. He didnt want to use his legs too much before an eventual sprint, because both he and MVDP knew that as soon as they were on Carrefour de l'arbre, none of the other riders would be able to follow them, and they would be on for a duel. Earlier attacks would be just making the race even more quick and more hard, and the harder the race is, the smaller the advantage of WVA becomes in the sprint.
All the GCN commentators have one very clear advantage. Punctuation. Try it Chris. You start, pause stop. Accentuate. Vary the cadence of your speaking... I'm sure you'd get more viewers if you improved at this skill.
As much as I like your videos this one is with you as the Knuckle head. GCN is fabulous and entertaining and light hearted and don’t need in hindsight criticism. Do a better job yourself than them and then criticise I suggest. No one gets it right all the time. Best wishes
I loved GCN when it was just Lloyd/Richardson/Stephens/Last. When Matt left and Eurosport came into the picture, the content became repetitive, and everything, including most DIY maintenance videos, come across as infomercials. And not to mention everyone wants to be a comedian. When they get a presenter of your caliber and pro-peloton history, Chris, it may spark my interest again.
You should thank your lucky stars you don't have Ant McCrossin commentating! He has zero knowledge of the sport. His greatest gift is reading the captions on the screen! Robbie McEwen is really the best of the commentators combining a good sense of tactics, technical knowledge and an easy-going personality.
Sometimes I don't agree with you Chris but you really put in the work. Keep it up mate. You're gonna turn to gold one day. One question, are you reading what you say? Cause it seems too fluent. It also seems impossible to do your presentation without an autocue.
There is no script. Sometimes if I’m really bad the first, second, or third try shortly into the a shoot they are could all have different stories. I do have my boy Garrett fix and edit when I screw up, luckily for me he’s good. The notes that are in front of me are names and distance markers that effect the race. But the stories are all me. 👊🦋
Hi Chris. On GCN Tech's weekly vid, Ollie Bridgewood said that Ineos (100% sure) & Jumbo (95% sure) had the Vittoria run flat Inserts. And, that is why their tires even if they flatted didn't come off the rim like another rider we saw on the cobbles, and that they could continue until they find a mechanic.
You are talking wrong. MvdP was behind Dege. Then Dege changes to the right side. MvdP comes from the left side, behind Dege. So Dege 100% could NOT see MvdP. Than MvdP goes right an gives Dege an Bodycheck. MvdP had to be diqualified !!!! 😢
Chris, good commentary. I watch GCN, like you said, for the phenomenal coverage. The commentary, to me, is entertainment and give me a a good chuckle, especially Adam Blythe :) Good show!
Actually Adam Blythe with all his flamboyant clothing is pretty much on the money , I have never heard him say nonsense , he knows what he is talking about .
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Where else would I get to watch unlimited races,across all disciplines, numerous videos and all for £40 a year. Love it.
100% Chris Horner' s team, I am not an expert like you, but very often I think that GCN are biaised and are working for their sponsors or promoting cycling mainly for UK or US or AUS way too much...
As a cycling fan who is unable to attend International races, I enjoy cycling coverage from many media sources even non English coverage. I enjoy GCN and many of the other sources available. I don't need to have in depth minutiae of tactics explained or to be reminded of what happened in such and such a race 20 years ago.
I've gone off GCN shows but have time for Simon and Dan. Often see Dan at local CX with his lad and he's a genuinely nice guy who loves cycling. Commentary is part entertainment so I'll forgive some knuckleheadism. Listening to Charlton and Sean's mistakes can be hilarious and I'm not expecting DS level insights. I'm just glad we get so much coverage now, yours included. Blyth can go find another line of work though, one involving wearing socks!
I agree - Dan and Si are top notch. As are Robbie McEwen, Magnus, and Blythe (IMO - he's a wildcard in his views and clothes for sure). However, Carlton Kirby is am insufferable ponce, Sean drones (but that's partly Carlton's fault for calling on him all the time...Sean would probably be quiet), and Rob Hatch needs to control himself.
@@georgehugh3455 I don't mind Carlton, but then again he's not there for deep insight imo, just to get the former professionals they have alongside him to do this (which they often don't). I also don't mind Sean, most of the time he knows what he's talking about, and Robbie McEwan has been a great addition recently as well. When in a recent race Brian Smith was lost to some technical issue it actually made things better, I wish it would happen more often, and Adam Blythe is just as bad, so it's very hit and miss.
@@mattpotter8725 You are a far more patient man than me if you can tolerate Kirby's inane wordplay, lust for young men and digressions about what he had for breakfast. I do agree that when Smith's audio was lost, the commentary improved markedly. Bet you can't wait to see if Blythe is rocking that fluffy pink sweater w/o socks at the next Monument, eh?
I like Sean because when he does speak he knows what’s going on, he’s calm because most the time there isn’t thing that needs to be said, but specially for his experience. Carlton’s job is to fill that void, yeah it’s dribble most the time, but over time I’ve grown to like it. But yeah Blythe seems to just be there for the hang, he’s gotten a little better, but they should but him on those Conti level races before putting him on the monuments, he has no place there.
The only thing I can say in the way of a Devil’s Advocate argument is that *during* the actual race itself it’s easy for a commentator to miss something important like the overlapping bars example you gave re: Mark Cavendish. Even during a replay they may not catch it the 2nd go-around as they’re not in control of the replay themselves, they’re just watching it on the screen and reacting in real-time so I’d give them a pass on making mistakes or missing something in the heat of the moment. In a weekly wrap-up show, they’ve had the time to watch those clips, reflect and reassess. Whether they take the time to do so is really up to them. Repeatedly making clueless tactical comments… there’s a lot less excuse for that. You’ve proven you know what you’re talking about time and again and pointed out the basic concepts these commentators are seemingly blind to… or possibly ignoring just to hype up the broadcast. I *do* worry that you going after GCN like this isn’t doing you any favors. I really enjoy your channel but assume you have bigger aspirations. I’m very disappointed you won’t be on NBC for the Tour this summer and have to suspect you said something last year (w/Bob, for example) that got you removed from the team, at least temporarily but hopefully not permanently! 🤞My advice to YOU is don’t go after these people that you may find yourself sitting next to some year down the road. If you don’t want to be a broadcast commentator, then by all means have at it and don’t hold back (which you don’t, lol) but if you do… you may find you’re slamming the door in your own face with these kinds of videos. That said, I can’t resist cussing out clueless drivers from the safety of my own vehicle, so I’m throwing stones in a glass house here. No amount of me commenting on their crappy driving is going to improve their behavior and I think you’re caught in the same trap. GCN is driving you crazy, but they ain’t gonna change.
Are the cycling commentators really any worse than commentators for any other sport? The live commentary is always about some yammering that can fill up the space and not run out of things to say
Chris I enjoy your commentary and insight. I also love GCN and their commentary and insight. I think that where GCN and you differ is that they say "I think that....", and you say" I'll tell you what really happened.". When you criticize Jumbo tactics on the last stage, of Catalunya, do you actually know more about Jumbo than Jumbo?YOu disagree with their tactics, but does that make them wrong? Their track record indicates they know what they are doing. And Wout wasn't afraid at Roubaix: not the best choice of words, (well, it was live as well), true, but Wout himself said that he was being cautious and defensive up until Carrefour, so there you are. I do appreciate your views: they give us good things to think about, but, unlike GCN, your tone is that in all things cycling you are right and everyone else: GCN, sports directors, top ranked cyclists, are wrong. Remember: all categorical statements are flawed. Colin Cowherd advertises his show by saying, "No matter how many times I am right, you'll still argue with me." That is not an admirable mindset. If there were only one way to race, you wouldn't have a podcast, and I wouldn't have to listen to you and GCN and other sources to get the fuller story. Keep up the great commentary, but perhaps just a touch of humility as well.
Haven’t seen the GCN, I enjoy Chris he’s willing to say what’s on his mind, doesn’t make it personal and is always smiling. Very entertaining Chris keep up the good work!
Normally no but I REALLY took this as personal. All I kept thinking is wow..why is chris attacking dan so sarcastically. Every point chris makes could have been made impersonally. Instead it’s dan this and dan that 🤷🏻♂️
I enjoy Chris commentary but really no point in slamming GCN. Even if your spot on about some points. It’s a bad look for Chris. I listened to about a minute and shut him down on this one
I’m just glad I don’t have to find some bs feed in some other language that keeps crashing. It’s much easier to be a cycling fan then it was a decade ago.
I mostly listen to swedish commentary and the expert side kick is Anders Adamsson who I think knows bicycling and tactics more than most I have heard. He is funny as well.
I dont agree at all with Chris Horner: John Degenkolb is not at fault for his Crash: MVP is coming from further back and can see John and his teammate perfectly - because they are in front. John Degenkolb is the only one of the 3 who is not moving anywhere - just going straight - and he has every right to do so. MVP can see his teammate moving to the right but he does not want to slow down and instead squeezes into the gap and it happens so fast that John Degenkolb has hardly a chance to react to that - and he doesnt have to - apart from obviously trying to avoid a crash - because its MVP who wants to squeeze in there - who is going on collision course with John Degenkolb and not the other way round. In my opinion its clearly MVP's fault, he is the one that had to put on the brakes and slow down - and not JD.
That’s how I saw it, too. JD had nowhere to go after JP left his line and put in the real squeeze to an already tight spot. IMHO, the only one who was in a real position to get off the gas was MVP. But then, it all happens within a blink of an eye and these guys are already on the rivet and just focused on keeping the momentum going. jmho
ur analysis makes it sound like the entire incident took place over an hours length where the riders had the time to sit down, chat and calculate their moves and reflect. it's a race. u need to make moves fast, make split second decision. there was no malicious intent. mathieu saw an opening, u could fit a jumbo jet through there, that's how big the gap was. ofc mathieu's gonna take it, he's in attack mode. ofc he can't read philipsen's mind to know that he's gonna deviate but that's what philipsen did and he's allowed to and they got squeeze in, in a matter of split second (mega big emphasis on split second, although u managed to write a whole book analysing decision making that happened in a blink of an eye). it's amazing. it's a racing incident, when u race on a road, it happens. it happens in every race, really. Suprised? i'm serious, it really does, it happens not almost but always in every race.
It's always easier to do a post analysis of a race when everything's over and the outcome is known, but in the heat of the moment, analyzing tactics is always a slippery slope, and I notice a lot of ex pro riders consultants can be proven wrong when trying to guess what happens during a race. If the winner eventually wins, they'll be proven right no matter what their tactics was (and of course you've got Movistar tactics no one understands). But yeah sometimes I'm scratching my head when listening to them (not only GCN, Laurent Jalabert or Christophe Riblon as well)
I have a lot of respect for Chris' knowledge from both a rider and commentator level. I do agree some of the commentators on GCN leave a lot to be desired. However I could say the same thing about some of the NBC commentators that we, in the USA, were essentially forced for years to listen to because we never had access to anything else. I've enjoyed Adam Blythe and Nicolas Roches' color commentary because they are only recently out of the modern peloton, with more current knowledge of riders and team dynamics. I very much enjoy GCN and Flobikes, in spite of some of the commentators, simply because they have opened tons of races, and not just road, to us here in the US.
I think Chris too much analyse races based on how it was back in his time. It is a new era now. I trust sports directors know what they are doing. Same with riders.
no they provide a prolonged commentary throughout the race, and have raised the standard they make it an enjoyable event to watch, because lets be honest many of us will not have the time to watch a race throughout we pop in and out and watch the end etc, so the summary and reporting I think reflect that, I have issues with GCN concerning the fact they tend to think everyone rides a £10,000 bike but as far as the event coverage goes they do a good job.
Jonas had already won the GC of that race. It is not an equal comparison to the Women's Paris Roubaix, which is a 1-day race. They are absolutely not "almost identical." I agree with you on all other scenarios.
GCN is a great platform and awesome for cycling fans. Some of the commentary can be questionable for sure. But it's still entertaining for the most part. I see you ripping apart the riders and the DS's decisions as well. So it's hardly surprising that the commentators are also getting it wrong. The multilingual members of my cycling club choose to watch it in other languages. If you can speak Spanish you can see if Contador does a better job 👍
I really enjoy Carlton Kirby, not because he's always on the money but because he loves cycling. It's also hard to fill in the gaps when nothing is really happening, that in itself is a skill
@@PolarRedI've been watching the french feed. Some good moments with Jalabert and Marion Rousse, but UK feed is more consistent. They have a bigger pool of commentators. And Carlton Kirby is not ubiquitous anymore.
I’m not sure why it’s cool to take shots at gcn. They have some very informative information. It’s just stupid for bike influencers to go at each other
Why would Degenkolb want to jump in front of MVP if he suspected MVP was attacking? It doesn't make sense that he (Degenkolb) was trying to beat MVP to a spot. It makes much more sense that Degenkopb was either: doing absolutely nothing but maintaining pace...or, readying himself to jump on MVP's wheel if in fact he noticed MVP's attack (that is, when he was shooting the space between Degenkopb and Philipsen). To me, it's just coincidence that Philipsen decided to move right while MVP was shooting the gap, forcing Degenkolb into the grass...Love your commentaries but a bit surprised at this one.
Chris, I like you looking for the controversies. I don't always agree with you, but you always come up with great insight and strong arguments. Keep it up! - I recently subscribed to GCN+ - I am happy with it, because it makes fitting watching races into a busy working/family life so much easier - and I hate interruptions with commercials - especially the ridiculously stupid ones on Eurosport. The level of their commentary indeed has room for improvement - but there are some gems already - If they are really brave, they will invite you.
Chris, because of you would be my guess, GCN now does race strategy analysis almost exactly like you do it. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Having said that, I like GCN and I watch their videos along with yours. I like their race news. I don't know, if they view you as beneficial to the quality of their videos, but your adversarial commentary has pushed them. They needed to be pushed. Healthy competition improves everyone in the competition. Keep true to yourself like you have been. I love your race analysis. Keep up the great work.
Haha I called them out for using the teleprompter and still photos like Chris a few weeks ago. The O.G. of race recaps on RU-vid was Cosmo Catalano; I think he may have been pirating material though, he disappeared.
MVDP had just started his attack going to pass Phillipson on the right. John anticipated and started pushing those pedals. If Phillipson had kept his line, no crash. MVDP was luck to stay up himself.
Why? Drop the name-calling and stick to your take and analysis. Let us figure out who is more insightful. Love to watch the debate so don't stop just think about the delivery. We all love racing and the complexity of it. It's brian entertainment as well a physical display.
@@aiarta2280 Why not? Because all of these situations bar one are up for discussion. The first comparison is terrible really. Comparing a hilly stage race where Vingegaard is in the lead to a one day classic like the hell of the north is completely different Seems like he just did it for the views even if I would like to think that wasn't the motive
John Degenkolb had been very attentive throughout the whole race and was amongst the fasted on the cobbled sections until that calamity. He's been on front the entire day and was even matching a MvdP on the attack. I rememember one scene, when Jasper Philipsen let loose following an attacking Matthieu on the dirt. John was the only rider who jumped back onto the cobbles to pass Philipsen then returned to the dirt and eventually closed the gap to Matthieu, while MvdP was still on a rampage. Maybe he felt it too early to go with Matthieu so the others made contact again, when Matthieu decided to not longer drag his rival. I felt he was the best of the rest (after MvdP and WvA) and real threat to both if they would have taken him to the line.
To add one more thing to the storyline of Wout not working with MVDP when they got a gap (with about 40-45km to go). Wout actually said in an interview he was not comfortable riding the last 40km with MVDP because he was afraid to be attacked by MVDP. I am sure you are 100% correct that Wout does not fear MVDP in the Velodrome, but he did admit he was afraid of being attacked on other cobble sections had they been riding duo. To me the real interesting question would have been this: If Wout doesnt puncture and MVDP and Wout go into the last 10km of the race together.. does MVDP work knowing full well Philipsen is just behind ready to win the sprint?
I skip all of the GCN pre-race, post-race and world of cycling. Only watch the actual racing, then check your analysis (and LR) to see if I was interpreting the race correct while I was watching. The best part of the commentary is usually the side stories from the commentators.
I follow, The ButterflyEffect, GCN, and LanternNrouge. Between the three of them i think you get a well rounded perspective. I would not trust just 1 channel as absolute law. Thanks Chris for the great content.
Not sure why they would bother responding. They put out a massive amount of content and they know they probably aren't correct 100% of the time, but they don't really have the time to go back and revisit a lot of their previous commentary as they're already gearing up to cover another race.
Thanks again, Chris. Good point about the sight line of riders. In P-R, I would imagine their view is very much like a tunnel view. Just concentrating on the smoother line ahead.
Some commentators get a bit tedious. Well mainly Carlton, as he natters on, off topic a lot. I agree with you Chris, I would love for the ex pro's to provide even more of their technical insight, which I enjoy.
I watch GCN race coverage... My opinion on the commentary is this, Sean Kelly is excellent, Robbie McEwen is good. Bothe are worth listening to. Dan is ok, and Adam Blythe is average.
Dan Lloyd is also a former professional bike racer . Like the other comments reiterating Horner’s analysis is post race. I notice he uses the phrase “should of’ a lot.
The riders should use a small handlebar mirror on each bar end. I have used one on my commuter for a few years, it works a treat and would stop silly incidents like MVDP and Degenkolb.
An additional comment/question... The sector of cobbles where they put the barricades on the dirt road were awesome, force the riders onto the cobbles. What are your thoughts on doing this for all cobble sections? IMO, the Cobbles MAKE the race :)! Thanks!
It isnt a dirt path on that sector it is paved. The reason they dont punt barricades at every sector is safety, you want to have a way where you can go to avoid crashes infront of you. Whit barricades it feels like you are trapped…
I think a big part of the broadcasting is fulfilling contractual requirements regarding tourist destinations that the organisers want you to publicise. Which leaves less room for actual discussions about cycling tactics.
I this was very tame, I was expecting for you to really go to town, but you kept it professional, which is very telling of you, nothing gets personal. I don't think you even mentioned Brian Smith once, when he was lost from the commentary the other day and couldn't be brought back it made things so much better!!! Great video though, your insight has made me ask questions when watching, even with the commentators are saying the tactics are fine, I'm thinking, really, I bet Chris will have something to say about this later, and often you do!!!
I have found that GCN responds to messages in a very unpleasant patronizing way. This has occurred a number of times. For example, I tried to explain to them the physics of doing a track stand and I also queried them on whether GCN commentator Oliver Bridgewood actually has a Ph.D. They basically blew me off...
You were on a French team, so your French should be sufficient to use the French audio coverage on GCN+, which has Jacky Durand, Philippe Gilbert, etc.
Compared against Gregor Brown on Flo Bikes, the bumbling Bobke on god-aweful NBC-Peacock, or the commentary from self-serving, self-important former Postal riders such as Lance (and others), I'll take GCN-Eurosport any day.
