My REVIEW of Kingdoms Forlorn having played Aeon Trespass: Odyssey 

Totally agree I think the same goes for Lazy Squire Games as well.

Thank you kindly, glad it was helpful for you! Sorry I left ya hanging for a day :D First order of business I think is a versus video for it :)

It's a grim dark Egg Knight. He's an Egg Knight, and that's silly, but it's done in a serious way. "Peculiar" Perhaps is actually a better word for it.

I'm quite mixed about it. It's a jarring juxtaposition. The silliness seems to be part of KF's satirical take on the genre of dungeon crawlers/boss battlers. I like satire and wouldn't want full on grimdark. But I think it could be difficult to engage with a satirical game for hundreds of hours.

Think it's more surrealism maybe? Egg knight reminds me of onion knight in dark souls, initially made me chuckle in that game but then you start wondering what's he doing here and why on earth is his helmet shaped like that, is there a human under there or not?

@@benh4390 Definitely a lot that's surreal about the game for sure!

@@Kiratze yeah definitely I hope there's some more detail on the other kingdom's they've talked about previously - think some of the most surreal bits are more in the barony in bloom rather than the principality of stone.

This is my favorite comment. Sir you are ready for Kingdoms Forlorn in your life. I hope you like yolk!

@@TheKingofAverage Hope the yoke over the shoulders will not scramble your mind too much on this one. Though a sunny side up mini will be cool to mark that you have cracked this egg!

This is the funniest board game yolk I've heard yet. Hope you don't mind if I poach it!

Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it :)

I really appreciate the kind words Stephen :) I plan on doing a versus video for you guys so will let you know!

Thank you kindly John :)

Hah! Good point :D

Harakiri, ,Zerywia, Malhya and kingdoms forlorn are on my short list. Think I've crossed off storm sunder, chronicles of drunagor and Oathsworn oh and Hexploreit.

EXACTLY! You remember that moment!

Happy to provide :) Just feel bad it was a smidge late!

Glad you liked it Chris! :)

It's actually really amazing. Goes away when I don't need it, can fold halfway out size wise for smaller games, 6 foot by 4 foot (a smidge more actually) for needed space and can be made several inches higher for standing like with wargaming: firmerterra.com/

ah dude that's awesome that they are hooking you up! Always impressed by them. Very happy to help btw :) Rulebooks are my most hated part of this industry, so you don't know how tempting your offer is :D

@@TheKingofAverage happy to report, 5 months later I stuck to my word. I've all in'd everything ITU has released now. Got my hands on ATO, ATO Twelve Sins and Kingdoms Forlorn. ATO is amazing, I bet KF is going to get rave reviews. It deserved to do so much better than it did in the last Kickstarter.

Yeah sorry I ran out of time so didn't do the + and -'s - hopefully I can have some time to add that soon! :) I've thought of expanding the +'s and -'s and actually doing it as a separate speed review video - would that be nice as a kind of TLDW?

@@TheKingofAverage I like longer videos but sometimes I got distracted and it's hard to focus for entire 50 minutes of the video - time stamps help to focus :) tl;dw at the end would be also nice :) I need to rewatch your review of AT:O - as I am waiting for this to be delivered I need to make decision - should I keep ATO and not back KF or other way round.

Oh for sure! Those timestamps are there to help you guys :) takes a while to do so many and I'm the right spot. I'll try to add them tonight for future viewers. It's a toss up right? It's now on TTS as well so at least you can get some time with it not having AT:O available. I'll be doing a versus video BTW!

Quack and alex sometimes lose the forest for the trees.

I'm so sorry it was late!

Thank you very much! I felt so bad this was a day late for you guys so it's wonderful to hear it's still been helpful for you! Narrative: That's really a group specific thing - I personally like more games than my group does, so it can be hard to differentiate what I think is a great game versus what will actually get played. That being said, the story segments are super short, just a few paragraphs, but they happen often.

Good call. I am in the exact same boat, and I am very interested to see how this one plays out in development.

I might make a followup for those of us that already are getting AT:O. Pros and cons to that right? Quickly in comments the best I can describe the overall difference is this: In AT:O it feels large scale. Not just the titans and gods but the world map and that same world map spanning adventure/story. There is not a focus on character almost at all in the story as it's more focused on the politics, the geography, the cataclysms. In contrast KF is people focused. The map is a city/town only and you travel by foot. You have a personality and perhaps are chasing a person around. The stakes are importing and intriguing but you are not fighting God incarnate here :D As such it feels more personal. Another example is comic books. AT:O is cosmic level stuff. Silver Surfer, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. KF is street level. It's Daredevil, it's Spiderman. Spiderman isn't trying to stop the galaxy from being destroyed, he's just trying to save his girlfriend. Some will find both compelling, some one or the other. To me, that was truly the largest difference.

@@TheKingofAverage i think that would be helpful addition as it doesn't need to be a video and with some of these games being quite similar for what a normal backer can see but still a fairly big investment getting a chance to understand what a person is adding their collection is a good move.

I have just missed early bird 😅 So maybe...hard pass?

Haha oh no!

I've backed the game as well. I liked it quite a lot! I'm HUGE on streamlining stuff normally, so adding a small layer on top of what AT:O had, or a slight spin to me can sometimes feel unnecessary on a personal opinion level so that's probably what you're getting from that. They have asked numerous times for feedback and said they wanted to hear any thoughts I had on it. It's not one of those games where it's 100% done and they just throw it on KS so now is the time for feedback for sure :)

I hope to squeeze that in as the next review! :)

It's random but slightly enforced. Each direction tells you what size card to use but there are options in those cards which causes the randomness. It can help them make a good world though, as say the boss card is an XL. Simply limiting which cards lead to an XL allows them some mild control over where the boss location will be, and they control your starting card too. Future missions could have you set up any number of tiles though I imagine. In this one it's just the starting card however.

thanks king! I really hope they nail that aspect and make it somewhat like AH LCG which is unreached in that aspect

It's hard to say as much has changed/been updated in AT:O since my prototype. For instance, the two windows for laying tokens down I mention here is apparently in AT:O now as well as late game it started to become unclear which tokens placed when without that structure in place.

I'm confused how they're allowed to run a new campaign when not having delivered the previous one, given they haven't fulfilled 4 campaigns yet - KoA covered the changed rules here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bmG0VFpEDd8.html

Ah interesting I didn't know you did that! You've been around long enough here to know I'm a bit heavy into liking things streamlined. However this would beat confusion around timing for sure. I'd first attempt to just remove that not accommodate, but again I lean pretty heavily in that direction. Really with KF and my time with it it was more trying to figure out which ones left vs stayed. Perhaps a visual cue on the token would help with that? I was just chatting about this with my patrons on discord around learning the game. While I didn't struggle here, I didn't with AT:O either. I am perhaps just more inclined to certain things than others as I didn't struggle with SK while I know others did and still do there as well. Give me a Euro and I'll probably seem real dumb though :D

@@TheKingofAverage I'm actually right there with you regarding streamlining (I love it so much!) and I factored that into a LOT of my ATO feedback but I also came to see how some complexity was unavoidable in certain areas with a game this deep (mechanically). Its kind of like the split between roll to hit and roll to wound. Some might say it would be easier to have a single roll but that one simplification would eliminate an exponential amount of mechanical possibly/variety. ITU wants the player to keep experiencing new mechanics and challenges as they progress in order to keep the game fresh/interesting over 5 Cycles of gameplay. So long story short, I still love me some streamlining but I've grudgingly accepted some of the "messiness" of ATO as a necessary evil lol.

Also, mob numbers are now snap on base rings, so that makes this option easier then I’d anticipated

HECK YEAH! :D

His head twitched like they do too :D

I really wish I could have tried the solo mode! I played with 2 people once just fine as the issue normally is managing card hands where you play many cards in one turn and that's not really done here, but everyone has their own limits to this sort of thing :)

You guys are quite welcome! I REALLY wish it had been there day 1!

The KS page is indeed not great and I disagree with hiding so much content day 1 as well. But I always review games separate from their KS campaign and separate from the company that made them which is why I can have a video titled CMON is EVIL and also give two CMON games my game of the year award :)

Something about the fog being ever mysterious and those that died are found wandering back out of the fog alive but the worse for wear.

That's exactly how I felt, but I think they just trimmed the core game to be able to reveal stuff in SGs. They have already added quite a bit of stuff and I's only been 26 hrs... SO perhaps come back in a few days and see yourself. To me this was a marketing mistake, but lots of people (including myself) backed anyway, so I guess the final product might be actually a decent deal.

Yeah the SG strategy was not ideal. I've seen enough art and such from things to come to get in on it. Costs me nothing until 20 days from now anyway. If in 19 I feel it's not I can pull out then. Until then my pledge helps and allows me to follow along :)

@@TheKingofAverage Same here, I am not pledging if I am not interested at all. I see the potential of this project this why I pulled the trigger myself too.

you should watch a good play through of ATO, this has an extra layer, but the system is pretty good i think. Also i like the extra mitigation this has over KDM

@@gasa5251 real talk! I really regret missing out on AT:O and am a big KDM fan so a game with some better mitigation sounds sweet but tossing up wether to back this or the reprint of oathsworn?!

While everyone has different limits to what they define as too fiddly, no I didn't find that or I'd have listed it :) If you can handle KDM you can certainly handle this :) To be honest, I find manipulation to be fiddly. Like dice manipulation, cards, etc. Overall you're playing perhaps 1 card, hitting, wounding, and laying a token or two down. That does not take much time and are all very basic actions on their own.

@@TheKingofAverage and with that sir they have another backer but really tossing up waiting for the oathsworn reprint or backing this 😅

100% smart move man. There's enough product out there and they're expensive enough to where if you have a good excuse to skip you should take it and not even sweat it.

Once I find out how to save some myself I'll let you know :D

They have sworn that there is a solo mode, where you play one knight and the others are automated.

They've said they'll have a true solo mode, but we were unable to play it in the demo so I can't comment on that. I did play it with 2 and it played fine for us as multihanding isn't a huge thing since you aren't playing lots of cards each round or something like that.

How so? It's by Into the Unknown :)

@@TheKingofAverage I think he means you wrote Unkown's , need another n there. Great video btw :)

Yes sir

2 minutes in a 50 minute review seems okay :D The entire review is ideally quite detailed and in depth like that. I don't like to just quickly list an opinion and move on, I like to talk it though, explain why and what my reasoning was for it.

I think the reason is that the game is too big to fully explain on the KS page and quite honestly, ITU attempted to do that on their last KS campaign and it created a lot of problems for backers due to upfront information overload. In the usual ITU fashion, they'll be exploring more of the mechanics in the Updates as the campaign progresses and if you have Tabletop Simulator, there is a free demo of Kingdoms Forlorn. Also, both the prototype rulebook and storybooks are now available to read as well so that might help you find the details you're looking for.

@@Option1979 Oh I'm aware there are avenues that I can find more info. I was just commenting on my agreement with the stance KoA usually has with campaigns that do not explain their games. Go watch his last news video critiquing the Deep Rock Galactic campaign and all the same criticisms apply to Kingdoms Forlorn. A campaign page is a sales pitch, if you don't tell me how to play your game during the sales pitch, you're not pitching a game. You're pitching art and minis.

I've not taken a look beyond backing (since I've played the game already) - I'll have to look into that. Ideally agreed, they should have a basic mechanic overview that is longer than a single marketing sentence.

The rule book is linked on the Kickstarter, and also has a TTS demo, so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about. Or maybe I’m just missing the point

@@davec2724 Oh, I think I see your point. I have watched that video and I generally agree. Perhaps ITU went too far trying to explain everything in their first KS and overcorrected too far in the other direction for this KS.

That's the exact reason why I'm assessing to cancel my pledge. If there was a standee version, I would go for it. But I don't want all these hight-art sculpts. They are weird, they are unnecessarily huge, they are hard to use in other games (DnD) and make the box needlessly huge...

Yes sir :)

Yeah exactly! While I don't personally mind it, it just doesn't really fit here I feel. Like it's in HATE but there it makes sense and fits right in. As I butcher and eat people in HATE the F bomb isn't really a bomb at all. Here it very much jumped out at me :D

I also appreciate you mentioning that. I was caught off guard as I haven't run into that in any of my board games so it never entered my mind the story would be that mature. Good to know!

Not sure if you have been following the updates, I find this company one of the best I have dealt with.

ATO is supposed to deliver in May-June. It's late, but they did a fantastic job on development and communication. They have my support !

It's not a major negative :) As the disclaimer says, not everything said is equal :) Most of my viewers however are American and from past experience, many of them have similar sensibilities as I do around this. I had my kids read their stories, since they are their character. This was fine, nothing bad in there at all. Then a random F Bomb out of the blue :D Some parents might be fine with their 12 year old dropping the f bomb with the family. I was not, so I mentioned it :D As always, make your own opinion, all I can do is share mine :)

@@TheKingofAverage I think there will be plenty of dark moments in the game you will feel unsuitable for young ones.

@@TheKingofAverage Your 'f-bomb' is on the project's front page in some of the narrative, so if it's there I think it should be no surprise that it turns up in the odd paragraph of the actual game. Different strokes for different folks though, enough games to go around for all groups of people on this world and there are people who probably have never heard the term 'f-bomb' that will like this and not even blink at the language.

Sorry it's late! :)

@@TheKingofAverage no problem. Been waiting to hear your thoughts

So when you fight mobs you fight them as a mob, but they are actually different types of the same enemy. So for these guys there's ones with more armor, or that hit harder, etc. It's done in a nicely streamlined way and still escalates as tougher bad guys join in later in the fight :)