To be fair, Nolan addressed this in his trilogy and Batman was forced to kill and let his enemies die. It was justified. Snyder just turned Batman into the Punisher. That's how he didn't honor the character lore.
Zack always refers to "The Dark Knight Returns" as a source of inspiration...which tells me he's never read or understood the story or character. MULTIPLE times, Batman expresses his disdain for killing and guns throughout the four issues. Even referring to guns as tools for the weak. It's just baffling how much he talks so much about it and understood so little.
So according to Zack,Rebel Moon wouldve made 1billion if it had been released in theaters??...if that were true..people still loves barbie more than oppenheimer yet rebel moon wouldve made higher than both??😂😂🤡🤡 Thats a lot of assumption, fuzzy math and "what ifs" to defend a movie. Sometimes a bad film...is a bad film.
Batfleck puts a tracker on the truck yet he still rammed it along with the shooter inside killing him...does he have to?! Should have just let the Truck leading batman to their base of hideout wouldn't that been better?
I like how he's so convinced that Batman "kills all the time" in that story, specially that mutant moment he loves quoting, but then the story itself repeatedly states that he hasn't killed anyone, both Batman and third parties express it every now and then throughout the story, story that btw would NOT make any logical sense if Batman was killing left and right like Snyder claims, bc the final part of the comic is Batman being FRAMED of murdering the Joker and that being his FIRST kill is the trigger event for all that final stretch of the story bc the cops finally start hunting him down aggressively bc he's finally crossed the line of murder, which again would make no sense whatsoever had Batman killed left and right since the beggining
The new spiderman ultimate issues are so good man. im glad that uncle ben is a mentor to peter and isn’t dead in this universe, and the art style and designs to the suits are all amazing
I have no problem with Batman killing, as long as it serves the story and there's a reason for it. Doing it just to be dark and edgy is the issue. Batman doesn't kill because he doesn't want to become the very thing that took his parents from him
My real problem with his batman killing is the fact that he apparently does not mind killing nameless thugs but the joker is still alive ? Miss me with that shit 😂
The only time I can approve and see his choice in killing being fine is in the context against a major criminal like pyg, or scarecrow or bane, instead he’s killing minor thugs and people like Joker is running around
What annoys me about Batfleck or taking to people about Batfleck is that it’s actually a pretty decent character arc…for basically anybody that isn’t Batman. In Batman Beyond, Bruce literally scares himself into retirement because it became necessary after a point to use guns to he an effective crime fighter. Heck, in The Dark Knight Returns, the comic that his version of Batman is based on, he cracks a gun in half and literally says “these are the weapons of the enemy.” I’m not trying to deny that Snyder certainly had a creative vision, but when you take a core appeal of the character like this and then change it, it comes across as completely missing the point of the character, which Snyder seems to prove is the case with him time and time again
he also shoots a guy in head to save a baby in that same comic ,batfleck doesn't carry handguns he has turrets on the bat mobile and batwing that's it but guess what so does bale and keaton and most versions of batman
boohoo spiderman in the comics was nothing like he is in the mcu yet they took him made him Iron man Jr always havig to rely on soemthing or someone or tech to get through his battles and only until nwh did they kind of change that.
1st off, 'change' is an abstract or paradoxical concept by nature... it alludes to the 'idea of change' and how that gets determined but in actuality, that gets contradicted because of nature not being able to determine actual 'change' - so with Batmans case, his 'no-kill rule' was set in motion after his 1st debut where he killed criminals, but the thing is that, this rule is a deluded but paradoxical idea that was set to combat against the 'evil' that Batman has set against despite having exceptions throughout how he deals on with his crusade against crime or the 'evil' - and determines that as an actual Holy Grail that alludes to 'change' when in actuality, it doesn't at all... so both by nature in general especially Batmans character becomes paradoxical by nature itself considering that Batman doesn't always abide by his no-killing rule, and does break it or has exceptions and is hypocritical (by nature) such as TDKRs comic that Snyder takes very great inspirationa from, and for very good reason compared to any Batman story because it fits the notion of the paradox that is Batmans 'no-kill rule' the most out of any Batman story... so this is where Snyder takes a direct contrast against TDKR but still ending up the same, just in a different manner because Batfleck is done abiding by that rule that he used to have...
A perfekt example is in Batman Arkham origins game, bane had a heart monitor and joker is strapped to a electric chair. If the battery's are charged up joker dies or he kills bane and joker survives, either way someone has to die. The twist is that batman uses electric gloves to stop banes heart and when joker escapes he revives bane so both live in the end.
So according to Zack,Rebel Moon wouldve made 1billion if it had been released in theaters??...if that were true..people still loves barbie more than oppenheimer yet rebel moon wouldve made higher than both??😂😂🤡🤡 Thats a lot of assumption, fuzzy math and "what ifs" to defend a movie. Sometimes a bad film...is a bad film.
@@syamilshazlan862 No, actually, that's not what he said at all. In fact he specifically goes into talking about how things that would never be popular in theaters are given exposure by Netflix.
It's worse when you remember that canonically the reason why that Joker wears grills is bc Batman caught him after killing Robin and in a fit of rage started pummeling him, knocking off his teeth. So apparently this Batman kills random thugs but he catches the killer of Robin and only punches off his teeth and sends him to jail, yeah that makes a lot of sense. Don't forget Harley, Deadshot, Killer Croc, Slipknot are all still alive too.
Superman killing Zod worked for me. But what he did with batman was just bizarre. Dude was just killing people whenever without any rhyme or reason. There was no nuance, and if there was some thematic reasoning for it that suited the narrative, it wasn't communicated well at all. A lot of people interpreted it as this Batman losing his way due to Robin's death and the Metropolis destruction, but when Snyder starts saying stuff like this, I honestly don't think thats the case. Snyder himself has never once said that was the case. So it consistently just kind of exposes how he really feels about it all, and seems like he genuinely just doesn't actually understand batman and finds the idea of his moral code silly and childish. And so he kind of just handwaved the whole concept away for BvS because he thinks Batman killed people in TDKR, which isn't true, and the fact that he DOES think he kills in that comic is telling about why he only ever seems interested in that particular story. I think Zack just wanted Batman to be a killer in this world. Plain and simple.
it's not a 'moral code' to begin with, it's just a set of values based around Batmans perception against the 'evil' of Humanity and it's in the case that Batman makes it simpler by generalising the 'evil' as 'criminals' - his set of values or just a 'code' is stemmed from what is simple that is taken as a pedestal against crime...
and TDKR does indeed 'kill' here, something that you need to read sweetie... 1st off, 'change' is an abstract or paradoxical concept by nature... it alludes to the 'idea of change' and how that gets determined but in actuality, that gets contradicted because of nature not being able to determine actual 'change' - so with Batmans case, his 'no-kill rule' was set in motion after his 1st debut where he killed criminals, but the thing is that, this rule is a deluded but paradoxical idea that was set to combat against the 'evil' that Batman has set against despite having exceptions throughout how he deals on with his crusade against crime or the 'evil' - and determines that as an actual Holy Grail that alludes to 'change' when in actuality, it doesn't at all... so both by nature in general especially Batmans character becomes paradoxical by nature itself considering that Batman doesn't always abide by his no-killing rule, and does break it or has exceptions and is hypocritical (by nature) such as TDKRs comic that Snyder takes very great inspirationa from, and for very good reason compared to any Batman story because it fits the notion of the paradox that is Batmans 'no-kill rule' the most out of any Batman story... so this is where Snyder takes a direct contrast against TDKR but still ending up the same, just in a different manner because Batfleck is done abiding by that rule that he used to have...
@@donjon1179God, you're lucky that my @godzillazfriction account keeps getting shadowbanned from this video only... if i was commenting in response to you im any other platform that isn't reddit, RU-vid or Instagram then you'll be crying how much i would be cyber-b___ying you...
That's where people should know the difference between Reason and Revenge Christopher Nolan - Shows Reason Behind The Batman Zack Snyder - Revenge of Batman
It baffles me that WB hired this man, when he has proven multiple times that he does not understand these characters. I just feel bad for Cavill and Affleck
The only thing I approve of Batman killing is to be apart of the story and having a reason for it, because if it's just a full on kill, then it's definitely not gonna work.
I agree plus i find it funny when you have an issue how a character is portrayed the excuse is "the writers can do whatever they want; the character has been around for decades or DC are the only ones who can approve it"
You got Kingdom Come wrong just as Snyder got DKR wrong. Sups didn’t retire, the world chose Magog and revenge over Superman and Justice. Batman didn’t kill the mutant holding the girl hostage. Brian Lynch nailed it. Batman doesn’t kill, he’s able to get out of impossible situations because he’s that prepared. In fact Snyder kinda got there with the Star Trek reference to Kirk reprogramming the test but failed miserably in his interpretation because he’s more concerned about himself more than the characters. Couldn’t be happier that Snyder is done with DC. Looking forward to Gunns DCU.
A great example of a weak story that still understands Batman Batman Arkham Origins He has to kill Bane or the Joker will kill himself, so he makes Bane unresponsive as a distraction and then ended up Reviving him That shits awesome, I love when Batman has to think of things like that on his feet
I think that style only really works in elseworlds now; I see James Gunn’s being more like the animated series. Not afraid to let out intelligent quips while still maintaining a serious composure. I expect the typical jokes about how dark and brutish he is whenever he joins the justice league tho
I agree. We all know it's gonna be inspired by the Brave & The Bold comic of course, but I say they should take a few inspirations & influence from both comics & tv show. Like the Animated Series, Batman Hush, Death of the Family, & The long halloween.
Every Batman movie had Batman kill and that was my problem with Batman in all those movies The Batman was the only Batman movie where Batman did not kill anyone and went out of his way not to in the whole movie. Robert Pattenson is the only one to actually follow the no kill rule
@@G59METHit’s too late at that point lmfao it’s an apocalyptic world where superman is trying to kill them😂 at that point joker is an asset, the intelligence between batman deathstroke and the joker is insane
One of the points of BvS is that you see the heroes at their lowest. Superman is not accepted by humanity. WW has abandoned humanity. And Batman has abandoned his humanity. After Superman sacrifices himself killing Doomsday. WW and Batman see it as a selfless act. Superman gave his life for people that hated him.
Really good point there. A Batman who isn't living by a strict no kill code doesn't have the same power in a JL dynamic. It gives off more of a Wolverine or Huntress feeling. Snyder never understood the characters in a translatable way.
I don't hate Zach but you can tell he doesn't read the comics and if he does it seems like he mostly just skims through the pictures so he can get images to recreate in his movies. It's sad that he can't also recreate the original intent behind the stories as well because of his obsession with making everything edgy all the time.
Youre probably right on the money. Instead of actually reading and understanding the story and intent he looks at the pictures and almost forms his own narrative. Its weird.
Thats why I love the Killing Joke story. Its up to the reader to believe if Batman finally gave in and killed his archnemesis, or will the endless cycle continue.
Snyder made the perfect Elseworlds story, but it should've just become an Elseworlds story. Imagine a version of the DCEU, where Snyder's story is the third major arc. Initially, every hero is as they are in the comics, but they see a Knightmare timeline and it's Snyder's universe (Not Snyder's Knightmare storyline, but the regular storyline.) Don't misunderstand me, I love Snyder's DC movies, the characters are just not as definitive as they probably should've been.
Keaton: Indirectly killed the Joker and Penguin, and also personally killed their supporters without hesitation (one even with a smile) Bale: Killed the fake Ra's Al Ghul along with a number of League of Shadows fighters and left the real Ra's Al Ghul to die: "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you." Then killed Two-Face saving Gordon's family and killed Talia to intercept the bomb. Ben Affleck: Killed and maimed many of Luthor's mercenaries. Robert Pattinson: During the pursuit of the Penguin, he had an accident that clearly did not go without victims. Also versions of Batman from the series Gotham, Titans and Batwoman: the first killed Ra's Al Ghul (although he was not yet Batman) the other two killed the Joker. And animation: JL: World of War Doom That Came To Gotham The Dark Knight Returns, Parts 1 and 2 Flashpoint Batman Batman vs. Dracula (and pretty much every undead or parademon in the comics or DCAMU) Red son of Batman After that, do you still care if he kills the rank and file?
“There’s no move, there’s no throwing the batarang, no dust ball to distract me. I pull the trigger and I kill this kid” -Snyder on JRE Podcast And that’s where Snyders inability to make use of the “suspense of disbelief” in comic films falls short. This is exactly the scenario Batman would pull off some million to 1 shit where he’s able to disarm the guy without the kid dying/without having to kill the gunman. That’s why Batman is great. Faced against a million to one odds and he figures it out. So glad this guy isn’t directing DC stuff anymore. I respect the efforts but Christ almighty the imagination is lacking on how to properly use the characters who exist in a world of make believe where you can break the rules of reality. This is quite literally quoted by the joker in Batman: Under the Red Hood. Jason has the Joker and Batman at gunpoint and he fires at Batman. Batman dodges the bullet and throws a batarang at the gun and hits it dead center in the barrel and disarms Jason without killing Joker. Joker says and I quote: “I can’t believe you got him! You expert, rootin-tootin, eagle eyed, goth-loving marksman! I love it! You managed to find a way to win…” Like any base level Batman fan would understand this but Snyder has never been a fan of anything he’s a deconstructionist like his fanbase. They love tearing down everything that’s great about a character or franchise and playing this stupid ill-advised game of “what if” with a character(s) that like he said are some peoples religion
Batman should only resort to killing in three specific situations: 1) by accident or in self-defense, 2) when he must save innocent lives with no alternative option (similar to his actions with Harvey Dent in Nolan's trilogy), and 3) during times of war (such as facing Bane, who has captured the city, or Darkseid, attempting to conquer Earth). If Batman becomes a bloodthirsty killer in his city, wielding machine guns as depicted by Snyder, the police and Commissioner Gordon cannot overlook his actions, and they would be compelled to hunt him as a villain. Since he is a hero, not a villain, he must adhere to a moral code and avoid crossing certain lines. If he were to become the very evil he fights against, his purpose would lose meaning. Moreover, a proper role model for children is crucial, as they grow up with him just as we did. It's essential to recognize that not every criminal is the same. For instance, if someone is stealing to feed his family, should Batman kill him? No, he should intervene to stop the crime and then, as Bruce Wayne, later help him by, for example, assisting in finding him an honest job. This is the essence of Batman's character."
This is why I dislike snyder. First, he tells fans that we are living a dream world, as if he's the one telling reality. And has zero knowledge to the dc characters.
Here’s the thing, there’s nothing wrong with Batman killing if you actually do the work and make it believable that he would kill, Take Arkham Knight for example, during the second to last Joker Hallucinations Batman is fighting multiple fake Jokers and constantly fighting and beating them and every time he beat one he would get more violent and more brutal then ever before until he finally snaps the neck of the joker and he stops as in that moment Batman lost
@@Eternal_Sky_TardisHenry never lived to his full potential as Superman. Watch Man from U.N.C.L.E, he is great in that, lots of charisma which Snyder stripped out from the character in Superman.
@@kael3691 I dunno man, Superman stoping Steppenwolf's axe and saying "not impressed" with a smug face was charismatic Yeah, there are some questionable moments in the Snyder's movies as a whole like Supes killing Zod in Man of Steel or killing that one soldier who threatened to kill Lois in BvS but other than that, I don't get why this guy is saying That Zack specifically ruined Superman's character in JL because there wasn't a controversial moment with Superman in that movie
@@Dr._Mantis_Toboggan_Md. He looked like a douche for saving Cyborg while making a witty remark to his enemy? That is certainly an interesting take i guess
Yeah, but he doesn't just off every person he sees. Every time he kills someone in the comics, it's treated as a huge deal and even makes Batman in one issue turn himself in. It's fine to write a story where Batman kills ONCE and he has no other choice.
Batman killing makes zero sense if The Joker is still alive. I don't mind Batman killing if it's done right. Personally I prefer a Batman that cares about his villains that's why DCAU Batman is my personal favorite. To me Batman shouldn't kill part of why I love Batman's character is because of his compassion. Batman cares for his villains and he wants them to get better to me that's more compelling than a Batman that kills.
To be fair though, why aren't people considering that Snyder never got to actually tell the stories he wanted to outside of Man of Steel. Both BvS and JL were forced onto him by WB rather than his original plans, his ideas were constantly in-flux.
@@doc8013 Nope, BvS was literally not even planned to begin with, in fact WB enforced it after Avengers' success, when Snyder wanted to do Man of Steel 2 or Batman movie as the obvious next step... Tells me that the Snyder haters are just as oblivious as the blind fans.
@@Osama-KIN_TMZ01 dude, Snyder signed onto Batman being in the movie. He said they were sitting around talking next steps and someone brought up Batman. He said once that happened he couldn't think of a way NOT to include Batman. He got final say on story, he got final say on script, he got final say on pretty much everything. I'm truly baffled we're in 2024 still having this conversation. BvS is ALL Snyder. Sorry you don't like that, but it's absolutely true.
i think zack is an amazing visonary i think it sounds cool that he lost so much he just doesent care and that superman reminding him that these people have families they are human with his mom martha and him accepting that is cool but he didint write that well cause immidietly after hes killing goons left and right, a problem with cinematic universes is that you need to set up the normal than make a solo arc and overall arc which is hard to do especially with making some heros older and weathered down and introducing them in another heros movie that just started
As a batman fanatic, Batfleck is my favorite because of the fact that he is comic accurate to the dark knight returns batman. He was older, bulkier, and downright brutal towards villians. He pulled no punches, and wavered in the lines of killing and not. I don't stand behind your opinion of making a more campy batman like west again, they kinda tried doing that in the josstice league. I'm thinking make a batman who isn't as dark as Pattinson, who's had atleast 6-10 years of experience and has a sidekick to mentor would be a nice balance that we haven't scene from batman yet would be awesome. If jensen ackles where yo take on the role, his darker more Sarcastic humor would fit well. Love the videos chris!!
Batfleck wasn't really anything like the Batman Returns Batman, though, except in the way he looked. Fundamentally, they couldn't be further apart. Batman Returns Batman did everything he could to not kill someone. That was his entire point of being. Affleck's Batman killed a dozen folks before lunch.
it's not about killing or not killing it;s about having a moral compass, Synders problem is that he is so bad at optics. If he had just said "maybe batman went too hard in the movie" people wouldn't give him hate, it's just that he doubles down. It's just this attitude of being above critcism, hitting back at critics, thinking you get to be the one to decide who batman is when it's not up to you. Ben Afflecks batman has never felt like batman, it's always felt like a different characer.
Keaton: Indirectly killed the Joker and Penguin, and also personally killed their supporters without hesitation (one even with a smile) Bale: Killed the fake Ra's Al Ghul along with a number of League of Shadows fighters and left the real Ra's Al Ghul to die: "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you." Then killed Two-Face saving Gordon's family and killed Talia to intercept the bomb. Ben Affleck: Killed and maimed many of Luthor's mercenaries. Robert Pattinson: During the pursuit of the Penguin, he had an accident that clearly did not go without victims. Also versions of Batman from the series Gotham, Titans and Batwoman: the first killed Ra's Al Ghul (although he was not yet Batman) the other two killed the Joker. And animation: JL: World of War Doom That Came To Gotham The Dark Knight Returns, Parts 1 and 2 Flashpoint Batman Batman vs. Dracula (and pretty much every undead or parademon in the comics or DCAMU) Red son of Batman After that, do you still care if he kills the rank and file?
I think the bigger issue behind Snyder's Batman is that when Batfleck kills, it doesn't weigh on him the way Snyder says he's curious about. Snyder asks what would happen if Batman kills, but in his movies Batman runs down goons in a car chase and he doesn't think much of it afterwards. The criminals he chooses not to kill get branded then get killed in prison, its in the news papers, he knows its a death sentence, why not stop. Its implied that he started killing after Robin's death but Snyder doesn't go further into the topic other than Joker did it. Also, in a world where Batman kills, why is Leto's joker still alive, why doesn't he let Harley drown in Suicide Squad when she was involved. This is the start of a new universe, how many of his villains would we have seen if he has no problem killing? I feel like Snyder makes Batman kill from a realism standpoint, but fiction doesn't have to or need to be realistic. Yes, put Batman in a situation where he might have to kill someone, having him find a way not to kill creates a compelling story. Snyder seems adamant about Batman killing because somehow that's what would make him flawed, and having a no kill code makes him some kind of pure saint. Batman is truly a flawed character, often times b/c of the no kill rule but having moral code makes the character compelling b/c the writer has to keep him from violating his morals. Yes you can write characters violating their morals, but we meet Batfleck as a killer so its unclear who this version of the character was before going through this "downward spiral".
I think Zack Synder was the worst thing to happen to D.C. He made Batman kill and made Superman gritty. I would have rather seen him do a deathstroke movie rather than what he did because his style would clash well with Deathstroke.
So according to Zack,Rebel Moon wouldve made 1billion if it had been released in theaters??...if that were true..people still loves barbie more than oppenheimer yet rebel moon wouldve made higher than both??😂😂🤡🤡 Thats a lot of assumption, fuzzy math and "what ifs" to defend a movie. Sometimes a bad film...is a bad film.
I see both sides of what Zack's saying. Side 1: It would be creative to tell an ELSEWORLDS story of Batman killing, like Flashpoint or something like that. Side 2: Batman shouldn't kill, under any circumstance, he must always find a way. "There's always a choice." Personally, I think the reason Batman doesn't kill and the Batman who never kills is the most compelling Batman and also the reason why he is relevant. Kevin Conroy said it better than anyone really. Batman is flawed. He's just a human being. And the fact that he always finds a way is what makes him so special. He's just like all of us.
I totally agree with you, Chris. The problem is that doing a story where Batman acts out of character only means something because in the comics there are many years of history. This is the first time we have seen this Batman, since it's not related to any of the other cinematic versions.
His no kill rule is an essential part of his character that he has morals and doesn’t kill so he doesn’t end up like the filth that killed his parents and those he puts away in jail. He’s expressed his disdain for killing and guns multiple times. Even refers to guns as tools for the weak (which we see Affleck Batman use) And two, I like how Batman can be in situations where he’s tempted but still upholds his rule. I view him as the ultimate form of human perseverance and sticking to your morals no matter how easy it is to break it. And most adaptations make that clear. Others choose to ignore it for some reason. If you’re gonna ignore or change an essential part of Batman’s character and make him start killing, than it’s gotta be an interesting story to tell. But it feels like Snyder just did it, cause it was edgy, which completely misses the character. And my criticism goes for others, like Keaton and Bale, not just Affleck (even though I still like all three). I thought Snyder had an interesting story of how he started killing after going through another tragic loss similar to his parents through losing Robin. Than I come to find out, that he really is only killing because of some obsession with Superman, which just made his “killing spree” way less interesting. It even opens a plot hole, like he’s willing to kill random criminals but not the psychotic lunatic clown who’s been terrorizing Gotham for years and took his son away from him? That’s odd.
Zack got taken out of context there. He was simply talking about what he did with the character which was inspired by The Dark Knight Returns not how everyone should view Batman. His point is that Batman challenged those ethics but still came out the other side not a killer. The whole arc of the movie was that he decided not to kill Superman. In the Dark Knight Returns Batman shoots someone with a gun. Zack doesn’t even take it that far in that scene. His Batman was on the grey line of moral bankruptcy but ultimately made the right choice. There is a line in DKR - Batman because of his age says whatever happens to them is their fault. That’s all Snyder was doing in BvS. Showing a Batman that was an older morally ambiguous legend that isn’t suppose to be perfect. You can write a character to make the right choice all the time or you can make a character flawed. It’s that simple, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand Batman. It means he knows that a good character has to go through trials to for it to matter.
Zack snyder has said in the past or someone I can’t remember all of Snyder’s characters started off in a broken mindset they weren’t the norm of those characters yet. They had to grow and learn to become those recognizable characters and had people been patient we would have gotten that. But that was the whole point of Batman’s arc he wasn’t the good guy in BvS he was supposed to come to the realization that he was wrong and and then find his way back to the person he used to be
Finally someone who understands where synder is coming from and acknowledges his faults. Most people are just butt hurt fans. The DC community is toxic bro, i just hope James gunn DCU will unite the fan base at least, i am gonna miss the synderverse though.
How is Batman irrelevant if he doesn't kill? How the hell does a character like Red Hood even work if Batman kills? "OH Bruce I'm back but you've always been into killing let's go kill Joker together." I don't even wanna get into the whole Zack just doesn't know what he's talking about thing (because I like the guy, decent director, seems like a good guy, I really liked Justice League, Watchmen, and Army of The Dead) but he is so obviously not an actual fan of these characters that it isn't even funny.
Batman (this makes it sound like he's a real person lolmao) has said that if he kills once, he won't be able to stop killing. And if you kill a killer, the number of killers remain the same. I think it's more interesting if Batman (and probably otjer heroes outside of DC) is put in a situations where they should kill. But they refuse not to because they'll end up like their villain. Similar to what the minions writer said. I find that interesting that Batman refuses to kill. Plus he doesn't seem like the killing type. (Bruce at least).
I had no problem with batfleck killing. I had a problem with us not knowing why he kills. They never explain or justify it. We got introduced to batman at his darkest. If we had a prequel movie of this batman where he decides he needs to kill, that would be interesting. Basically, they should have reversed his arc.
zach is an edgelord. he just does a poor job with things and then says haha yeahhh i love making ppl mad! it was actually my goal for you to hate it!😉 this is all BS, all batman did was kill every low level grunt😂no situation where he HAD to kill, and nothing interesting done at all. stupid movies. he’s the ultimate “i’m 13 and this is deep”
I feel like the decision to start tour cinematic universe with a Batman vs Superman story was wrong. To me a Batman vs Superman story only works when one of them is weathered down and at their wits end. Perhaps this movie would have been better to have been a Batman and Superman team up movie, and then you do a vs movie years down the line with an "older batman". That veing said, I really hope Zack get to do a full on Dark Knight Returns elseworld movie
Exactly. Batman is one of the smartest minds and greatest martial arts experts in all of comics. He’s such a great hero that even he can find no just one but sometimes two ways out of an impossible situation, where other heroes would given to killing being the ONLY answer sometimes. Part of the people is they want to make Batman as realistic as they can. Which can be cool, but I think I speak for a lot of Batman fans who want to see him with a Lazarus Pit or Solomon Grundy. A world where Poision Ivy doesn’t need to be changed to fit the story. And so I’m that fantastically world, it still works to have him “not kill.” Because so many other things unrealistic are going on.
The thing is its so complex and probably one of the most complicated things in comics. Snyder is right and wrong he sees interesting paths the character can go down but doesn't handle it the correct way. i still like certain things in snyder but not his batman takes really. Look at batman ego or batman begins he handles it decently in those.
The Batman that Affleck's Batman is based off of doesn't kill but he notably has low tolerance for criminals. Also, criminals fear his unpredictability and he uses it to evoke fear. Source Frank Miller's: The Dark Knight Returns.
I like to see a Batman movie where Batman got framed for killing someone and he was videotaped and he holding the person or the villain and they actually died in his hands but he who did in or did not know where it came from and has to find out who it is and everyone was after him if you get my meaning , can't wait to hear about the Mexico trip
Sound possible if they do that in Matt reeves the batman, maybe done by hush or a copycat who is professional cosplayer It could work and make it fun movie
I definitely don’t want an Adam west like Batman for the DCU but something more in line with the Batman the animated series, the new Batman adventures, and Justice League unlimited in the DCAU
Except we never saw him in a position to kill, he just is a murderer from start to end and there are only hints to why he kill but it’s was never explained, you wanna subvert expectations maybe show us a reason he kills and show us the ultimatum he has to make but nah, he’s just a murder and he does murder maybe I’ll tell you why in 5 movies
One of the things I absolutely hate is that they are again making an old Batman. Again!!! Grandpa Bats meets young Supes! I was peed he was as old as he was in BVS so was hoping that in the next Batman movie he could be a few years older than Superman bit reality is that he's probably going to be at least 10+ years older, or more. Seems in the comics, there's not much age difference. We shall see... but...
Bro I was the same I was trying to start a RU-vid challenge just because I hated that movie Batman versus Superman because the way how they treat it Batman but I did start loving it over time
i don't care if batman kills, but that he has a line is what makes batman, batman. it's the struggle to keep his darker side a bay. i'm sure snyder understands this but he wanted his own interpretation of batman. and unfortunately it just sucked. not to mention the sub part acting from affleck.
My introduction to Batman in comics and in general was a hardback cover compilation of the original comics where he killed, and in film, my introduction was Michael Keaton, who also killed left and right. So I don't care about Batman killing if it's established he dropped his rule or never had it. What I mind is when you establish the rule but constantly break it, like Bale's Batman. Pattinson does a great job of showing the obsession a Batman with that rule established in the comics generally has, almost getting him killed because he refused to kill. Keaton and Affleck are my favorites though.
Yeah big fans both of them, but I enjoy all the Batmans for what they are. I honestly thought that Batfleck didn't start crossing the line until after the Metropolis events, but I could be wrong. I thought seeing all the destruction is what made him snap. Plus given his 20 years of fighting crime and losing Robin the way he did.
Keaton’s Batman to our knowledge never had a no-kill code unlike Batfleck. Plus Batfleck has no problem killing random small time thugs but he let his entire rouge’s gallery-including the very man responsible for his son’s death and the reason why he started killing- alive. A Batman that kills could work but Synder wasn’t a good enough writer/director to make it work.
@@chibu3212 But it was established Affleck dropped the rule. Robin's death was the point where he stopped caring. He told Joker he would kill him in the Snyder Cut's epilogue, so we see he wants to, but we also see in Suicide Squad he keeps evading Batman. He can't kill what he hasn't caught. He didn't kill Harley because he sees her as a victim of Joker's, which is true to how he's viewed her in the animated series and comics. And even when he stopped caring, we even see in BvS's warehouse scene he still doesn't just immediately kill anyone, he aims above their heads. Some of those people died, some of them lived. He isn't like the Punisher, he's just done caring if you die at that point. He still has some restraint, he just stopped putting their lives above innocent lives.
One thing I look at is. Batman doesn’t kill anyone in Zack’s justice league. So I always look at it as he stopped killing after Superman’s sacrifice. Made him realize who he was again.
Does anyone else hate the batfleck suit? Or is that just me, like i think its the ugliest live action batman suit we've ever gotten, i hate how fat the batman logo is, cause its never looked like that before, n i feel they only did that to put the superman logo in the batman logo, which was still a stupid creative choice imo, my favorite live action batman suit is robert pattisons suit
Bud doesn't understand batman at all, which is why I keep on saying to my friends that zacks batman is the best batman we ever got if you haven't read a batman comic
He did the same with superman; Superman doesn't kill .. lets see what happens if I make him kill … he murders zod Batman should have had his own movie where he is pushed to the brink of murder but CHOSES NOT TO bc he's batman!! Then BvS have been the rivalry with Clarke be based around the fact superman murdered someone and batman hates that he did that and superman arguing there was no other way. then the fight could end with batman choosing NOT to kill Clarke teaching superman the true morality of being a hero.. witch would have also hit more when in the alt universe superman turns evil for Darkside.
My problem with Batfleck isn’t that he killed but that he had no moral compass when he killed. Keaton had some moral compass. Bale had a moral compass. Kilmer had a Moral Compass. Kevin Conroy had the best Moral compass and all the animated Batman had a Moral compass. also Batman hates guns. Batfleck likes guns and this is supposed to be the Dark Knight Returns Batman. That comic book has an antigun message!! “Guns are the weapons of cowards” Those are the exact words from the comic!! Batfleck using guns goes against the comic!!
batman killing is ironically less interesting than what he's really supposed to be like. killing is literally so easy and that shows batman's willpower to push through that urge even if it's way harder. he's stuck in this eternal impossible limbo of saving absolutely everyone which is so much more compelling than just giving in and not trying
One thing I didn't like is that the Robin who got murdered by Joker and Harley it's Dick Grayson. I would have love Batfleck even more if he does the "No Kill Rule" and I much prefer that the Robin who got murdered is Jason Todd.
Batfleck puts a tracker on the truck yet he still rammed it along with the shooter inside killing him...does he have to?! Should have just let the Truck leading batman to their base of hideout wouldn't that been better?
If he wanted a edgy Batman who killed, he should of done that with Thomas Wayne or Jason Todd, granted I give him props for trying but having Batman kill minor thugs instead of major villains like Professor Pyg, Scarecrow or you know Joker THE THE BASTARD THAT KILLED ROBIN (Even Harley), he really didn’t flesh out his journey and make it feel fulfilling, if we’re to compare Batman arc to Nebula’s arc from the mcu, we all know who has the better arc sadly
For me, it comes off as Snyder did it to spite people. Like, you watch the video, with how he's acting and laughing at it, it literally comes off as he did it to spite people. Don't get me wrong, how he handled it is a great way, but I don't like the reason why he decided to do it. Idk, that's how I viewed his comments lol.
Gun obsessed batman forgot to make kryptonite bullets for superman .most S2pid batman of all time and snyder still yapping trynna justify .bloodsport more smarter
I believe the killkng should pmly be a thing if it serves the story, but that doesn't work at all if you simply jump to his journey at him already killing, there wasnt a build up to it, we didnt get to see batman slowly delve into killing, i get the dead robin easter eggs, but thats it, weve seen him tackle that before and not kill, show us what was different this time, show us the journey to him kiling so we can understand at least, history is important
Yo not sure if you're gonna see this but I appreciate that you're not misrepresentation Zack's words unlike other RU-vid commentators and you don't take his words out of context.
James Gunn should draw some inspiration from Tim burton. Michael Keaton's Batman is still loved today by many for a reason because he was a good dark detective who wasn't afraid to do what was necessary to save Gotham including killing his enemies
