My spoiler-free reflections on Gene Wolfe’s The Book of the New Sun. The spoiler-filled discussions on the individual books within the series with Paul Williams and @MattonBooks appear in my “Wolfe” playlist.
First read at 14 years old, about the same time I read The Lord of the Rings. I'm in my fifties now and both books are still the standard by which I judge other fantasy and scifi books. Nothing comes close to Tolkien and Wolfe in terms of big ideas express through "escapism". Realist writers fall flat when tackling the same subjects, honestly, and that's why I prefer these genres.
It’s not so much post apocalyptic but dying earth because entropy (and sin if you’re looking at the Catholic bits) have brought about the world as we see it. It’s also Wolfe’s take on Jack Vance’s tales of the Dying Earth, which is actually the “gold book” in the story. I was very emotionally invested, it made me cry. It’s great how many different things that can be so throughly discussed from these books, and they’re pretty short! Nice to hear your perspective!
It is pretty amazing that the four books are as short as they are. I had a flicker of emotional investment toward the end (particularly for Dorcas), and I hope I'll feel more strongly connected to the characters during a reread. Cheers, Liam!
Impossible! Malazan fans *never* want to reread things, let alone expect to get anything new out of a complex, self-referential text! In seriousness, I’m glad you enjoyed it, Philip! I love those final 70ish pages of Citadel with a unique fervor. I look forward to discussing with you and Matt soon!
I've realised heavily this past year that my absolute favourite fantasy books are the ones that focus on prose and atmosphere - something the genre has the potential to do better than any other imo. A book that makes me smile because of how something was written, one that, when I look back on, I feel this sort of _weight_ surrounding it. The way it made me feel less so than the events of it. Earthsea is one of them, so is much of Tolkien's work (it's why The Children of Húrin is my favourite book of his), then there's Lord Dunsany, who was an absolute master of it. And then Gene Wolfe is just on another damn level. I started this series with a push from you, Philip, and I've learned a lot about myself as a reader and writer because of it. Thank you for that push. Book of the New Sun is now my favourite thing I've ever read. What a journey it's been.
I'm delighted to hear that you loved The Book of the New Sun so much, Jarl! Atmospheric books are awesome, and I hear you when you describe the weight surrounding them. Cheers!
These books are as good as it gets as far as I’m concerned. I keep looking for something to capture the Gene Wolfe puzzle structure but nothing hits the same. Wolfe is on another level. Talk about these books everyday, and I’m sure I will continue to discuss them for decades. Still waiting for your friend Mikes Book Reviews to read his killer Folio editions, hope you give him a nudge! Great video Phillip!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy also if you’re thinking of reading more Gene Wolfe, a great place to start is The 5th Head of Cerberus and his first full novel Peace. I haven’t read anything by Wolfe that I don’t love but it is so fascinating to see him hone his craft and almost create his own genre over the years. His short stories are superb as well. There’s nothing like a Gene Wolfe book but luckily he wrote enough to keep us busy for a long time. Cheers!
There is a really big divide in fantasy and sci fi- that is in part temporal, but really echoes a bigger issue. Honestly, new fantasy fandom seems to be so intent on having relatable characters, or emotional themes. Books like Dune, the Dying Earth, Book of the New Sun, Ringworld, etc are not about "characters" in the same way that a lot of modern speculative fiction may be. Old speculative fantasy and sci-fi is about big concepts and philosophy. One isn't necessarily better than the other- but I do often wonder why would I stick to fantasy and sci-fi if I was just in it for character development? There are so many authors in other genres who do that better than some of the best fantasists. Prof. Chase point about Wolfe's books being deeply engaging on an intellectual level gets at the core of why people started reading fantasy and sci-fi in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.
Well said! My impression is that the majority of people who are reading genre fiction -- perhaps even fiction in general -- are hoping for an emotional journey during which they identify with characters. That type of storytelling is actually pretty recent. Even with the advent of the novel in the 18th century and its development in the 19th, many writers were exploring philosophical themes along with presenting round characters (like George Eliot or Thomas Hardy), while others were using flat characters to explore social issues (like Dickens). I hold the assumption that science fiction still has a tendency to be more idea driven than fantasy in general, but I'm far from an expert on the topic.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I think that you are right about science-fiction too. Sci-fi is after all "harder" in many ways, and fantasy sentimental (even when it's not). I just think about Tolkien letting Bill the Pony survive and make it back to the Shire and I can't help but think that here is a man who cares deeply about the emotional well-being of his readers (haha)
Gene Wolfe is my favorite writer. I agree about the "emotional disconnection" ESPECIALLY for the first reading. Wolfe said, "My definition of good literature is that which can be read by an educated reader, and reread with increased pleasure." This series really, really starts to shine on the re-read. I'd say that emotional connection starts to develop more strongly as well. Excellent review.
I read The Wizard Knight duology and found it stunning, so I've been champing at the bit to dive into The Book of the New Sun as soon as I get the chance. After watching this video, I'm going to make the chance to read it. Great presentation, by the way; I've just subscribed.
I listened to the series of books on audible. The narrator did an amazing job, truly amazing job. I loved the books. It is definitely on my list for best sci-fi books ever. Even having finished this series over a year ago I still find myself thinking of this grand tale
Your discussions with Matt and Paul inspired me to reread the series and I'm so glad I did. Excellent review here as well. To me the brilliance of the (non-Severian) characters is that while Severian himself sees them as flat, their depth occasionally forces its way through
I learned from you (during our Dune discussion) how flat characters can serve a narrative purpose! It makes sense how Wolfe examines ambitious themes through flat characters and an enigmatic storyline. Thank you for being forthcoming about how you found this more intellectually stimulating than emotional on your first read-through. This was very helpful, Philip! I’m intimated but curious! 😅
I suspect my emotional investment could increase on a reread -- let's see! I will be very curious to see how you find The Book of the New Sun. Cheers, Johanna!
Good video. I first came across Book of the New Sun as a student in Finland. I was a scifi fan, but BotNS was actually the first English language book I ever read. Tough ride, and I loved it! I never even had a dictionary, so I thought all the vocabulary was just normal stuff in good literary works. I still love the book and read it last year for the third time after some thirty five years. There is also a quite recent translation into my native Finnish, and even it is well done some linguistic lustre leaks away since many of the medieval words from French and Spanish therein are commonplace in my native tongue because of the Thirty Years War that bled so much words for martial items Wolfe uses into quite common use. The experience of with the translation is more medieval, even pesant than purely exotic.
Your comment makes me wish (not for the first time) that I could read Finnish! As someone who has done a little translating, I couldn't imagine the difficulty of translating The Book of the New Sun, but I'm glad you had a positive experience with the Finnish translation.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Finnish is a crazy language for indo-european language speakers, some say. The translator of BotNS was one of our best, same person has translated Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest and much of Atwood.
When I eventually do a reread of BOTNS, I'm planning to consult those resources first and then dive in. I am hoping such preparation will free me to feel a stronger emotional connection. I have a feeling we might be discussing BOTNS during our chat tomorrow, Jared!
What a great video. As I approach the end of my thesis, with some extra free time... I come on youtube and find the video I've been expecting for so long. Hearing your thoughts on one of my favorite series is very gratifying. You have the analytical tools to describe what I love about this series. I can't help but imagine a Canavan-Chase-Raf-Niflrog discussion on this series, and maybe even how it intersects with Bakker's and Malazan.
Sounds like an excellent proposal for a discussion, Nif! Let us know when you're done with that thesis, and we can arrange it. Best wishes for finishing that thesis in style!
Really should read Urth of the New Sun Philip. It’s not so much a sequel as it is the 5th book in the BOTNS. Makes everything read so far carry more weight and definitely furthers the philosophical themes and questions introduced previously. Plus it’s an interesting and fun read.
I only read Shadow, and it was such an amazing read! I noticed the same themes as you, and I really loved the discussions - also, I found the "impossible to categorise" element very engaging and different, and certainly not derivative. One thing, though, is that I listened to the audiobook and although the narrator is great, I think this book requires full focus on it. Looking forward to start again with an immersion read!
I’m a failure when it comes to audiobooks, but this is one of the last series I would dare to try in that format, at least on the first read. I hope the immersion approach works well for you, Livia!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy TBH, I didn't hink it would be that difficult at first, especially because I read mostly on audiobook format, so I'm used to it. But nope, this one needs a sit down; the narrator was, however, spectacular!
This is a series that is the subject of a lot of intrigue for me. I believe it would be a challenge and a unique experience, and for that reason I’ve been putting it off until I feel ready for a ready of that nature. But you have certainly helped to sell me on wanting to try this someday in the future! I feel as though this series would benefit very much so from a buddy read active discussion and hopefully that is how I do read it when I get to it. Great job on the review, Philip!
If you have an overview discussion for the Book Of The New Sun, whether it be before or after you have read Urth, it'd be nice to hear AP's thoughts or interesting if you can have Alzabo Soup or Moid on it.
I had a friend back in 2010ish who was obsessed with these books. He argued Gene Wolfe presents unreliable narration better than anyone else. I never got around to reading the series, but he hyped it up a lot, and was pretty taken by the well executed unreliable narration.
@@sebastianvicewriter The narrator is definitely a supreme example of unreliability! He will frustrate you and likely exasperate you, but he might also fascinate you. All the best, Sebastian!
I can't wait to reread this series. There's enough plot that you can trust to have happened as it's stated in the book and the portions that seem convenient are (in my interpretation anyway) also believable in the context of the circular nature of time and predeterminism. Basically, anything that happens with The Claw seems that way.
Really excellent summary of your experience. I loved this series. I'll mention to anyone reading this on kindle that the words that are unfamiliar to us in the modern era are easy to decipher by holding down the word on the kindle and having the dictionary bring up the meaning of it. It works on about 80% of those words. Regarding the characters as "flat" by comparison to other fantasy, I agree. This work is rare in that it does in a fantasy setting what most classic science fiction does, focusing on ideas rather than characters and specific plot points. I've not found many other fantasy books that care as much about ideas and less about what happens to such and such character as this series does. I'm going to read Urth of the New Sun this year still I think. It's oddly addicting. Lastly, I nominate Dr. Fantasy for Autarch. The End.
Ha ha! I would be the worst Autarch ever -- I'm already confused enough with just one voice in my head! Thank you, Brian -- I too will read Urth of the New Sun eventually and probably more by Gene Wolfe. All the best!
So glad you enjoyed this masterpiece! I am a huge fan of Gene wolfe and entirely invested in reading and rereading his books so I do not blame anyone being put off by this work on a first read. It can be a challenge and not everyone is ready for something like that. Gene Wolfe's characters can come across as flat - this is because just like his world building his character building is very direct. You are very rarely privy to the thoughts of a character ( apart from Severian) but yoh are always told what they are saying and it is important to suss out their character from the context. This isn't easy but when you start doing that you get surprising depth in almost every character and each comes across as a well defined human being in their own right. Let us take for example Cyriaca - When Severian meets her, he thinks she is a Pelerine. what she is is an ex postulant of the Pelerines and she thinks it is edgy to wear the habit of a religious order she used to belong to to a provincial party thay later turns into a sort of orgy - so we know she is jaded. She is a woman who dreamt of travel and adventure and had an uncle who told her about the world outside. Her lovely little vignette about her trip to the house absolute tells us a lot about her ambitions. She wants to be someone, she wants to stand out and provincial life is killing her. She is drawn to Severian - he is one of several lovers but there is a sense of true connection between them that feels genuine. When Severian threatens to kill her Cyriaca manipulates their connection to convince him to let her go. This is a single character from the third book - and Wolfe has imbued her with so much depth. Vodalus, Agia and Dorcas have similar depth all waiting to be uncovered. The emotional connection is difficult to come by on the first read - I think it needs some time and a second read to fully sink in. I remember feeling deeply sad for Dorcas but also for the slave of the Pelerines and for Foila on my second read through. Do I recommend a second read through? Wolfe intended it and there is a lot of enjoyment to be had from the book on subsequent read throughs but I hate tk be THAT guy who tells you tk just read all 4 books and read them all over again for enjoyment - I think it is important not to rush a read of these books or hate read them. Read them or reread them only if you want to. Thabks again!
I agree with most of your points. I'm a layman (certainly not an academic) with a technical education background but I personally love reading and spend most of my free time doing it. This series I noticed, again like you mentioned, is very academic and more philosophical than probably most people would like. To not get into explicit detail I read the Bible KJV version and have some history with literature study so it wasn't crazy to read for me. In a strange way I appreciated how he abruptly stopped passages and books in transition like when Severian is going through the big Wall or over the cliffs. In retrospect, finishing it many days ago, his travels actually seem like the most important part of the story in a way, like you mention, his process of discovering, or for a more philosophical reference, the becoming. I have fasted and thirsted for many days myself, by choice for health, against choice by poverty, and as both a child and an adult. I loved those references because, although I don't know if Gene Wolfe himself ever suffered like that (he lived his successful life as a wealthy, happy, fat man) he wrote it accurately. I don't know if you'll read this or not and personally I don't worry that much - it's helped me organized my thoughts about a beautifully written book and we can both agree on that. I'll say this: His writing enforces my idea that life is simply a process; to live is to always be moving and metabolizing and energizing; our love of writing, of history, of attempting to freeze thought and history is just noble folly.
I cannot tell you how much my first read through of the book mirrored yours. I think because it is our first read, we are constantly being confused and trying to figure things out which hampers emotional attachment. I can say for sure that my second read made me connect with the characters more, which is a critique in itself because if you need to read a book twice to have an emotional connection, is the book a success? But it was for me. Doesn't mean there aren't some heart on the surface but yeah I agree. On my second read, Severian's compassion came to the fore for me, with Thecla, Triskele, Agia(his sworn enemy), little Sev, and creation in general but he has very weird, sometimes downright awful, ways of expressing it which is understandable given how he was raised. I care so much for Severian (though, he's still hard to like as a person), Dorcas, Jolenta, Malrubius, Palaemon, even the Autarch etc because I have spent much time with them, seeing the subtle ways Wolfe built them up throughout the book.
That's beautifully said! When I reread BOTNS, I hope to fall in love with those characters the same way you have. I agree that trying to figure out so many things the first time around likely impedes emotional attachment, but I'll be more relaxed next time. Cheers!
Philip, Wolfe has a duology called "The Wizard Knight" which I have not actually gotten to yet, so I can't speak too much to it other than to say that it is the series in which he most heavily leans on Norse mythology (though Long Sun and Short Sun, for instance, do have some significant nods toward a certain Wanderer ... perhaps wink is a better word here). So that might be a nice next step for you with Wolfe. Regardless you'll find that Gene can be very dynamic with his style (you'll even see that a bit already if you go straight to Urth next), yet always remains thematically focused as well as obliquely allusive in a way that I believe incites curiosity in history and religion and science outside of his text rather than frustration at a lack of clarity.
Thank you, Jesse! I will add The Wizard Knight to my list of Gene Wolfe's books to read. I'll probably tackle Urth of The New Sun first and then try The Wizard Knight. All the best!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy That's the right move. You may encounter some New Sun purists that will say Urth is indulgent, makes things too explicit. Nonsense on both counts. I wouldn't reread New Sun without Urth at the end. Looking forward to whenever you get to more Gene (also the rest of your content)
I think because BotNS is a confessional memoir, one chronicling Severian's journey from spiritual darkness towards the "light", putting all of his flaws on display (which certainly includes his poor understanding of other people) etc, the books' portrayal of the people around him *couldn't-not* be flat. The flip side of that is that basically every sentence of BotNS is a reflection on narrator-Severian's inner world, offering near infinite fodder for analysis -- the most intriguing of course pertaining to his commentary (or lack there of) of his younger self's more questionable actions.
You expressed that perfectly, and I agree that there is no way Severian's account couldn't be detached in some way, especially considering how he was raised to begin with but also the state of mind he must be in as the narrator. It all fits with Gene Wolfe's purpose, which he executed masterfully.
I love this series! It was one of the first series that really struck me about how first-person narrative could be used to its utmost. His analysis of language was also really interesting to me, since one of my favorite professors had a Ph.D. in philosophy of language. Love it, learn it, live it.
The exploration of the relationship between language and meaning is one of my favorite aspects of The Book of the New Sun. Gene Wolfe was immensely talented. Cheers, W.D.!
An utterly strange and wonderful masterpiece. Thanks for your thoughts, I agree with the point about the flat characters not actually being a bad thing at all. I found myself surprised that I could find much of the dialog stiff and wooden, yet still have the overall impression that the prose was stunning. I also loved The Urth of the New Sun which felt like part of the same story to me. It's been 8 or 9 years since I read these, I'm sure they would benefit from a reread.
The dialogue is definitely stiff, or formal, and there’s little distinction between the way the various characters talk. And yet, Wolfe’s prose is indeed stunning. I’m confident he could have written vivid, three-dimensional characters if he had wanted to, but he was more interested in exploring those themes. Having characters act as symbols forwarded those themes beautifully.
I've had this video queued up for when I finished reading BotNS and made my video, so I wouldn't be influenced, haha! I'm excited to dig into spoiler videos to see everyone's interpretations and theories, yet part of me wants to hold off to see what I can pick up myself (my willpower is low on this). I was thinking about re-reading The Book of the New Sun, as I was still reading it; once those greater reveals started showing up, I wondered what hints I had missed, or what really was going on in Severian's head and his journey. I've never had a book/series do that to me! I didn't imagine I'd come out of it with both confusion, and a new favorite. - Billy
I think this may be a case where emotional connection to the story develops over time, after the first reading. The primary emotion at first is bewilderment, but once you get a sense of what Wolfe is up to, there's room to feel the emotion of Severian's story more deeply. At least it has been so for me. For example the opening paragraph of Shadow I now find deeply resonant and mysterious, where before, when I first read it, it was baffling.
I've also thought the opening had more weight to it than readers normally expect, colonel. Even the first sentence caused me to stop and reread it the very first time I read the book. Just those 11 words "It is possible I already had some presentiment of my future" were a reveal to me. After two or three chapters I knew exactly who Severian was, but that was about the only thing I figured out. Or did Wolfe intend that? His prose elevates and sustains an involved dreamlike narrative, that alone makes up for what Wolfe deliberately obfuscates.
I’ve been rereading these books every four or five years since 1998, when I first read them. There’s so much there every time! In a way, there are only two characters: Severian over the years presented, and the world itself as presented by Severian as he journeyed through it. Love love LOVE these books ❤️
I'm a big fan of hidetaka miyazaki's video games. (Dark souls) The story is very drip fed and almost confusing at times. So it's almost like doing homework to figure it out. This sounds kinds similar. So I think this might be up my alley! Just bought the first vol
I have The Book of the New Sun, Malazan, and Three Body Problem on my tbr of series to try this year. Also want to read Wolfe's Wizard-Knight duology at some point. If I like the New Sun, will definitely continue with the Long Sun & Short Sun! Read that there is a really good podcast 'Shelved by Genre' that discusses the books in detail as you read along, which is helpful.
Alzabo Soup is another podcast or RU-vid channel I heard about that discusses The Book of the New Sun. I hope you’ll enjoy all these incredible journeys!
Excellent! I just ordered today the same editions you have, not an easy thing to do down here in Panama. I've been wanting to read them for ages. Great video!
I'm on book 3 at the moment. It's a fascinating read, but definitely has a feeling of sterility. Strangely, I am attached to Severian, at least insofar as I find him very compelling, but he's also a terrible person haha.
Book three is where I saw some movement for Severian’s character that made him slightly more inclined to like him. It continues in book four. Best wishes for the rest, Carl!
Thanks, Ben! Yes, there are certain things this series can deliver beautifully, but easy emotional attachment to the characters is not one of them, at least for me.
I ordered the entire series based of a conversation you had with I think Johanna maybe? But I am excited to read them soon. Trying to plow through Toll of the Hounds atm, tis a long book. Cheers!
I read Shadow of the Torturer years ago on a recommendation and never realized that it is first in a series. I just ordered the omnibus and am SO excited to read it.
I found more reward for my time reading as I progressed through the series. A reread will likely be even more rewarding. One thing Wolfe has in common with you is a healthy disregard for genre boundaries! Cheers, Mark!
Couldn't resist watching this one. It was very interesting to hear how you related to this more on an intellectual level, Philip. I've only read the first part and found that it is in parts very beautifully written. But couldn't help feeling that sometimes it was a bit too much linguistic acrobatics which I felt prevented me from being invested in the characters. But then, do I actually want to be emotionally invested in a torturer? You're reference to Medieval Morality Plays was something that did not occur to me. But know that you mentioned this it might actually be very helpful when I read on. Thank you, for sharing your thoughts and impressions on this one, Philip!
I think it will take a reread for me to feel more emotional connection to these characters, though I will say I felt a tiny bit at the end for a particular character. If you decide to read on, I will be very curious to see what you think, Angela!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Eventually I will read on. I didn't stop because I wasn't interested anymore but because I have so much other stuff going on. Maybe after the Perdido readalong is out of the way. Or I wait till you do your reread.😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Oh, you certainly do! Recently I also have Varsha and Jarrod gently 'bullying' me into playing catchup with their Janny Wurts readalong so that I can join them. Oh, the dark side of BookTube that no one speaks about. 😁
So nice that you read it, I finished it two years ago. Have to say I would love to hear A.P and you talk about it as well, you are a great duo. I read Peace after and just finished the wizard knight. It’s a specific taste l, which I love coming from contemporary dance. But I understand that being lost is not for everybody
Looking forward to that, I actually made a dance movie informant of just after finishing BOTNS two years ago. If you ever would have time I would be very happy to share it with you. Going through Malazan with you AP has helped me a lot to articulate dance to people that have less experience with it as a art-form. Looking forward to further reviews, Best Wishes 🙏@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
Peace is still my favorite Wolfe. I’ve read everything 2 or 3 times. I still don’t understand some things. I don’t care. No one else makes me feel so bizarre and it’s great.
This is why I appreciate you so much as a reviewer, you are not just good at selling me on books, but also in helping me decide that a series will probably not be for me. I have always been on the fence about this series, but hearing the words 'intellectual', 'flat characters' and very 'theme-driven' make me think that it's not a story that will work for me. At least not at this point in my reading journey. I loved hearing your thoughts on it though. It sounds like a very bold and experimental fantasy, which I can always appreciate! Great review as always!
Thank you, Esmay! You might feel up for a series like this at some point, but I’m glad the video was helpful to you in deciding not to try BOTNS right now. My best to you for your reading!
I have been a bit intimidated to read BOTNS, but that intimidation is turning to intrigue. I like what you said about being thrown in and doggy paddling through the series--I'm doggy paddling my way through life 🤪
My pleasure, Josh! Yes, based on your love for writing like Hobb’s and your issues with Malazan, I think you’re probably right. You never know . . . But, yeah, you’re probably right. Cheers!
The emotional connection comes about a bit more in Book of the Long Sun and definitely Book of the Short Sun. The latter had me tearing up on the last page. They are so completely different to New Sun so I hope you dive into those with 0 expectations of New Sun style.
I recommend Short Sun, it’s Wolfe at his best, you just have to make it through Long Sun first. Also the Soldier series is right up there with his best work
Great video Philip! I resonated with all of your comments about the series, especially with regard to emotional vs. intellectual investment. There were segments of the books here and there that had pretty large emotional impact for me, and they almost worked better because of the lack of empathy on the page. Just wanted to seriously shake and slap around a certain someone. I guess I would call that emotional investment! You put it well that you will enjoy this book if you are okay with feeling uncomfortable... in a lot of ways. I'm in the middle of reading Urth of the New Sun right now and I'm enjoying it. Reading it very slowly compared to how quickly I got through Book of the New Sun. I'll probably need to reach the end of it before I can really form an opinion on it, so far it's more of the same 'WTF' as the rest of the series. It feels a bit less grounded and more confusing if anything.
Thanks, Calvin! I definitely know what you mean about wanting to shake up that certain someone. Interesting to hear your experience of Urth of the New Sun, which I intend to read at some point for sure. All the best!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I had to come back and say that after finishing Urth, this series is completely mind-blowing. The latter half of Urth for me was a show-stopper and just absolutely incredible. Things click into place in really amazing ways I think. Highly recommend watching the Explained? videos by Moid at Media Death Cult and Phil and Metz from Alzabo Soup podcast. They have one for each book but the one on Urth was especially helpful. What a masterpiece!
First time I consciously discovered flat characters that act like symbols was Tale of Two Cities. That whole book was very interestingly written! Something tells me I should read this at some point as well as Malazan.
Flat characters can be amazing and vivid -- they're just one dimensional and more easily serve as symbols. Very useful in storytelling. I hope you'll enjoy The Book of the New Sun when you try it!
Absolutely adored the first book, the themes, the main character, and how these elements are introduced. After that, everything gets kind of mixed. The author fixates on certain details that never end up mattering, at the same time he begins to rely excessively on coincidences. I've also found his depiction of women a bit one note. By the last book, I was extremely frustrated with the story, as I realised some of the plots aren't going to go anywhere. I'm not unhappy with having read the book series, but I probably won't be going back to it. It's a good summer read.
I can’t disagree with you about the coincidences. They are part of why I felt like the story felt so much like an allegory. The women, especially as they relate to Severian, are indeed one note. I suppose we could excuse that on the basis of it being Severian’s account, in which his biases and viewpoint would naturally color the presentation of women. Even then, that doesn’t make it fun to read.
I just recently discovered your RU-vid channel because of your recent discussion with Jared Henderson. I started watching your first videos. I just finished viewing your video on the Kingkiller Chronicles. I read the "Name of the Wind" several years ago and I liked it. Subsequently, I've noticed that a lot of people do not like it. I've never understood why. Do you know why some people do not like it? I know that they may have issues with the plot, but that was not an issue with me. I thought it was an engaging story.
I think the common complaints are about the plot being slow, not liking Kvothe, and disliking the way Rothfuss writes women. Those are the ones I hear the most. The first two are, I think, a matter of personal taste. The Name of the Wind engages me very well, and I enjoy Kvothe’s character. The third is something I agree with partially, but it doesn’t mean the books are rubbish. Plus, there are so many things Rothfuss does beautifully. Thanks so much for checking out my channel, Gregory!
Wolfe takes it one step further as Severian being an unreliable narrator to calling out he is also an unreliable author. Agreed on the emotional investment. While reading I found myself switching from reading the story to analyzing the writing. I was just as interested in what the author was doing as the characters. But will also be rereading at some point as they are also comparatively short.
Yes, stepping outside the story to conduct analysis on it is not conducive to emotional connection. I’m hoping a reread will give me more attachment to the characters, though. All the best, Eric!
This is the most intimidating series for me, even moreso than malazan ever was or bakkers second acoployspe was. I dont think im smart enough for gene hahah
I liked your lack of emotional resonance comment, but I also feel like that is a device he uses because the narrator himself has become seemingly beyond human (despite the ironic integration/consumption of so many). I also like that you get to the end of the book and Sevarian is like, "No, everything is actually here in the text but you'll have to go back and read it again to get it." Maybe someday, like you said.
It would be supremely difficult to make this book emotionally engaging on a first read. The narrator, at first blush, is a liar and a jerk (being charitable). The rest of the characters are seen through his eyes, and it is difficult to become involved with his attachments. Often as not, they seem based on some kind of delusions (like his falling in “love” with every woman he meets through the first half of the book. Imagine developing an emotional bond to Humbert Humbert, or to Barry Lyndon, for example. Sevarian may not be as bad as them, and Abercrombie manages to engage our emotions with detestable characters, but I think it’s a very rare thing. I will be very interested to see whether I form more of an attachment to some of the characters on a reread. I suspect that I will, even if perhaps not for sSevarian himself.
Well said, and I would say both my experience on the first read and my expectations for the next align with yours. But I am intrigued enough to want to reread it. Cheers!
I've read those books decades ago, each within few days, and reading felt like lucid dream due to rich descriptions of everything. It's as if writer lived that story himself. There's nothing similar in this world ever written.
Despite being a Malazan super fan, I have like little to no interest in this series. And I think that is strange, but for whatever reason I just don’t need to be intellectually tested even further than I was with Malazan?? No hate of course, I’m glad you liked it, and I appreciate the spoiler free details!
The obsession with character arcs seems a recent (in the last 100 years or so) Western development in literature that many classics just don't lend themselves to. Heck, in fantasy we have Lord of the Rings, where most of the main characters aside from the hobbits remain the same people from beginning to end. Aragorn, Legolas, they have no moments where their characters shift because it's simply not needed. Nor is it realistic for everyone to have cathartic life-changing moments in a story. I love great character work, but sometimes it's not needed for the stories I want to read.
