Just kind of a rambly video for the people that like background noise. Leave a like for my fsoa rant :) Boss gp/hr calc: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Yea I have talked about this since necromancy launch, but it just does not make sense. Necromancy is best DPS for most players (even now, because most players wont do optimal range, even if they had the gear) But at the same time to get this BIS setup, only 1 boss is involved to get all the upgrades. meanwhile other styles have like 20 years of content that lead up to best in slot gear. But necromancy has now essentially bypassed the entire pre-existing upgrade journey, as you can now instantly jump into BIS by playing the necromancy questline and then doing 1 boss, completely skipping past every single boss and upgrade that used to be part of the journey. At that point you just upgrade other styles as a novelty. And make no mistake, The journey of upgrading IS the game. Once you get BIS, most people burn out hard, so fast tracking that process really just shortens the journey that is RuneScape Even if other styles become significantly stronger than necromancy, it doesn't matter because necromancy in revolution is still good enough to get through almost every single boss in the game with relative ease compared to other styles.
So many truths you'd turn memeoccio into a real boy. I made a video talking about the poor design of necro and really wish they'd have retroactively locked some incantations behind existing bosses or something. Its kinda silly to get full bis from 1 simple boss, a few hrs of afk skilling, and 1 quest that was split up into 5 for marketing purposes ... like who thought that was a good idea? "And make no mistake, The journey of upgrading IS the game" I think a lot of people don't realize this.
True stuff. I had once suggested that we can hold one of each style of special attack. I now think that eof should be changed into ability unlocks. These would be special abilities you can only set up to use before the boss fight bringing a maximum of 2. You would set it like relics.
There is near zero chance I would play any combat at all if Necromancy was released differently, including all bis gear from one boss. It was the right decision.
The disparity between Necro and other styles is even bigger as an iron. It's not just gear, it's abilities that you need too. Melee is ridiculous in terms of unlocks + gear you need
Yeah I think I agree with pretty much everything in this video as a fellow higher end PvMer with full BiS for all styles, I think you hit on a lot of the points that most people agree with. - 1. Ranged and Melee feel amazing, much better than before. I believe in a recent combat stream they mentioned the possibility of a 'mega EoF' which would be great. I still believe the payoff for using these styles just isn't there for 90% of the playerbase though. Like you have to be pretty decent at Ranged or Melee AND dump multiple billions of coins to out DPS a casual Necromancy rotation still, which is an issue. 2. Necro is still a bit too rewarding for its ease of entry. Honestly I feel like the biggest problem here isn't even the skill itself, but more Rasial. He's just way too easy to be dropping T95 gear. Compare him to other T95 dropping bosses and you'll notice a pretty big difference. There are other little issues too like death skulls still being too strong, and Necro having an extremely well-rounded kit with little downside. 3. Mage is really unbelievably terrible right now. Poster child for over-nerfed. I think they should have least applied some kind of band aid fix for now, probably magma tempest crits? Again I agree I don't see any way for them to make FSoA feel good again without reverting it somehow. Its just a really boring weapon to use now, basically just additional crit damage. That's all it is now. No reason to use it as a weapon either really unless you're 4taa'ing. They can't just cap the recursiveness at like 40% crit chance or something? Really? 4. Following from above, magic is a mess gear wise. Why is Anima Core of Sliske Best in Slot? Elite Tect still needs a set effect. Also, Magic is zero dps outside of sun/fsoa spec. All the other styles have ways to do damage outside of their dps boosting ultimate, Magic you might as well go AFK for 20 seconds after sun ends. To me, I think Magic is such a bad state that it really makes me question if the beta needed another month or so to fix some of these problems. 5. Remove off style crits and reduce the CD of Tsunami/Incend/Meteor strike to 30 seconds a pop until they can figure out a long term solution. Also a way to reduce Meteor Strike's cost needs to be implemented sooner rather than later, this could be a future reward. I don't want another swap though, just something simple maybe Greater Meteor Strike or something.
The devs have talked about increasing the skill ceiling. Their idea is to make damage rotations more simple, and instead make more complex bosses. Right now things are switched around, where the boss is just this annoying guy getting in the way of you executing your highly complex, unintuitive, unimmersive (in a fantasy sense) rotation. It remains to be seen whether they will actually deliver very difficult content though. When so few people are willing to do anything harder than GWD2 it's difficult to justify that development
Considering they said they would make more difficult bosses when they removed reaper crew from comp back in.. 2018? I don't have too high hopes sadly :c but that remains to be seen.
In my opinion the appeal of RS3 combat are the rotations and interesting abilities. If I want interesting bosses and a boring combat system, I'd just go play final fantasy 14
I recently returned to the game and tried EoC combat for the first time. I went to the Arch-Glacor and used only melee there. To your question about berserk damage, I can say it really does make a difference. I suspect that the experience at have at ~700% enrage is the same as someone’s experience with range at 1200% or so enrage because at ~700 the damage becomes high enough while zerked that any missed prayer flicks and I get one shot. Without zerk, that wouldn’t be the case until MUCH later. This is in addition to the extra damage I take, which sometimes means I need to stop and use a defensive in the middle of the rotation. The extra damage also makes learning MUCH harder. I don’t even bother to use berserk on my first few attempts at a boss I’m trying to learn because it would just get me killed. Obviously I’m new and can;t really speak on balance, but it seems pointless to add a handicap onto melee when there’s already a handicap, i.e., having to be in melee range. After the beta, range does more damage than melee, and I would bet this is only because melee has to be up close and loses damage potential during boss fights because of this. Right now melee feels really good to use, as long as the zerk damage doesn’t get oppressive. I don’t know how people do 4000% enrage with melee. I doubt they do it with vestments at the very least, and I bet the experience is way worse than 4000% range/mage/necromancy.
I have always hated the fact that range, and other styles for that matter, have been so heavily dependent on crit farming and gear switching. If they wanted to make the game as accessible to everyone they need to mitigate these issues in some form. It's too easy, even after the combat "update" to just camp necromancy and out DPS other styles using full revo. Magic used to be my favorite style, now I haven't used it in I don't know how long just because of how they ruined it. Now I've had to learn sweaty range and buy 4 more EoFs lol.
I got into Pvm only when necromancy came out as it was cheaper to get BIS than all the other styles. Now RS has opened up to me. I can’t say why I never PVM and why I was so put off for 15 years but I’m glad I finally got into Pvm and necromancy I feel has made learning the bosses a lot easier.
Same. Necromancy has opened up so much pvm content I'm finally doing AOD with my clan. Hard mode kerapac. It feels good. I won't be investing in any other combat style until the prices drop where they are more reasonable.
I had just finished getting b.i.s. Magic before fsoa nerf and barely got to enjoy it. Now it feels awful compared to the other styles so hopefully it gets some help. I like your idea of having multiple specs inside one eof because switching eofs for range all the time is a massive pain in ass.
dual weild magic and range would be very fun if you could fire 2 different spells/bolts with them. there's really nothing that could be done about the cost differences between the other styles and necro. BIS necro will go up as more and more content gets released but right now there isn't a lot of gear needed to reach BIS for necro like the other styles. One thing that could of helped would of been the tier 95 weapons for necro being dropped in pieces like the other styles instead of a single drop and boom t95 or if you needed a drop then had to combine that drop with something from rituals but as of now the weapons are easy to get hence the far lower price
do you think they wanted necromancy to work but when everyone hated the hero pass and didnt go crazy for necromancy jagex gave up on rs3 for a little bit anyway@@FroggieGames
@@benpaul9965 Nah this downward spiral of poor and slow development started way before that. This current dev team is so out of touch with the players and seem to take forever to release even the smallest updates that the dedicated players are all leaving. It has nothing to do with necro and the hero pass, that was just the final nail in the coffin for most people.
@@oniichan1123 huh?? It is literally LESS keybinds/clicks than any current setup. Rn, to use multiple eof specs you need to click/hit a keybind swap your eof, then use its spec. This would remove the extra action of switching. How is that "muddying a fairly simple system"? Its just reducing pointless switchscape bs
@@mateschneller9497 I should've been more clear about what I meant when I said it would result in more "key-binds than you need." Currently, I can have 1 bind for the EoF spec and manually equip each EoF from inventory fairly easily when necessary. In the proposed change system, I must have a separate bind for each of the EoF, as casting abilities from the book are way worse than equipping from inventory in terms of responsiveness. Technically you're going from 2 input → 1 input but genuinely, even in the most Eof switch intense style-ranged-the switching is so infrequent since you mostly just camp dbow I don't think that this mild switch scape reduction is worth its faults. As for muddying a simple system, currently, there is 1 ability associated with all weapon specs and 1 associated with all Eof specs. In the change op proposed, you'd segregate all specs into unlockable abilities. This would add 30-50 new ability unlocks to the ability book for no reason, making something that confuses many players even more confusing. Lastly, I don't like that this removes one of the key aspects of the EoF, which is to serve as an item sink for older spec weapons.
i really hope mage gets fixed its a good style n use to be my go to but now it fels weak tbh but for melee id like to see a 2h whip weapon that alows u to chage it for either range like nox sythe and or dps like dws and have it where one weapon kinda offers it all plus a newer sythe would be nice maybe a t95 2h whip ?
Cost discrepancy can't be fixed due to how new content is released. Necro will be expensive as well overtime, since I would imagine Jagex will release the 4th conjurer as a drop which will be sold for bills, and with new content the BIS cost just keeps going up. That is what happened with the other styles.
The one thing notice with FSOA nerf was there were two common stories. One saying it's bad. Other saying it's actually better or just as good. I don't know which groups of people are saying this(casual or pros.etc) but it's something I observed which makes me wonder how much effort is done for those statements. I don't use magic so I can't add my own input. Some other comments touched on this Necro upgrade issue. I do feel if Jagex had added more upgrades like they did with killing bosses to unlock next tier of armour, it would help with the issue of skipping every single boss to get everything. Like some incantations from Necro could require the souls and something else from a boss as a drop. But if they do that now, we now got "early bird bonus" people. I seen other games's solution is to downgrade them to a lesser version. Make the upgrade drop from x. Then use x to upgrade it back to its original state. (I think OSRS had this for Granite Maul?) -- About switchscape and off-style. I'm not a super fan of switchscape and too much switchscape only strains my left hand more. Runescape of all the games is the only game where if I do too much bossing, my left hand starts hurting. No other games does this to me. Problem with multiple specs in one EoF is now you have to fit more of them in actionbars and then keybind them. And for off-style, sometimes I question this. Didn't they at one point remove this and there was pushback. Really, it just feels oddly unnatural that crit buffs from another style of some form works for other styles. If you're going for PR times, sure this can help but in a general farming purpose, how much time is lost preparing this versus if you just started killing the boss, I don't know. I'm no speedrunner cause I also don't like switchscape. My opinion is also the same for those that does this "delay ability thing" It's hard to make everyone happy. Seems like a back and forth between adding more switches or not. I'm more leaned back when it comes to switchscape and I try to keep it to minimal to not confuse myself and to stress myself out more. So if someone wants to do high level switching or other methods mentioned, go for it. If you want to be more casual about it, go for it. I pretty much only use ranged 98% of the time (according to Winter stats) so that's my take on combat.
Mathematically, the new fsoa is close to as good as the OG staff, currently, because we were still at the bottom of the exponential damage curve (we're at 38-43% crit and the curve starts to ramp at 50-55% but doesn't really get into the insane numbers til 65-70%+). The reason people say its better is because we can spam gconc w/ channelers with the new staff and that theoretically brings the average damage up above the average damage of the OG staff... at 38% crit chance... The reason its close atm is because at 38% crit chance, the OG fsoa would recast ~10 autos for ~14% extra damage. So to offset that, they added an artificial 12% damage buff to the fsoa time strikes through the exsang spell (makes no sense bc exsang only should boost basic attacks and the time strikes are not basics, which is why I call it artificial). But... the new fsoa damage increase is just a line instead of a curve. So as you can imagine, when critical% increases; the new version of the staff starts falling behind the OG one... FAST. Plus there's a lot of reasons other than pure damage calcs that make the new staff bad. From what I noticed, most people saying anything about the fsoa pre/post nerf knew nothing about the staff and were purely relying on other peoples statements to shape their opinions. No one ran the numbers, they just saw someone say "infinite damage" and ran with it as if the .1% was 100% of the time and ignored the fact that the staff (or magic combat style as a whole) had build in protections to stop it from ever truly going 'infinite'. I've literally never seen anyone post anything about the actual theoretical damage of the fsoa pre/post nerf... except me. Maybe I missed it but you'd think people would wanna share that data... so here it is docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QuizzdxERk7JpnCw3fWZHp3y_xwhYcGhxeL7r6CmxAw/edit#gid=1133477376
The cost disparity is by far the biggest issue. You can’t even use Ranged unless you have billions. I’m full BIS Necro and to do the same damage with ranged I need to 5x my bank stack. New players are basically forced into Necro unless they want to be at a MASSIVE disadvantage.
considering berserk gives double dmg and you can move with it, taking extra dmg is understandable imo they can tone down how much you take in pvm situations but melee should have bit of that risk vs reward for dmg to give it the identity but that's my opinion also make planted feet work with zgs spec, there's no reason it doesnt
Yeah risk = reward and effort = reward are great with other styles. At most bosses you heal most hp back with soul split either way. I don't think melee is even as risky as range because of this, so melee taking more damage is perfectly fine. It's just Necromancy that needs a nerf.
I’ve got maxed melee except for dual lengs, and to add to 2:36 about berserk dmg to character, It’s usually not that big of a deal except for some scenario’s like arch glacor with flurry attack. you just have to focus and there’s no room for error. when compared to other styles theyre so much safer and less intense to use.
I agree with what you said about reverting fsoa back to its prev state. It would've made mage AT LEAST on par with ranged. then again, melee is melee. mage used to be somewhat decent until they nerfed fsoa into oblivion.
I've had three friends quit runescape cause they got to mid tier content with endgame equipment and they struggle bussed HARD! And felt super defeated. Unfortunately people just don't understand how difficult the combat system is when they've been in it for so long.
fixing ease of access, its solution is more simple. Rebalance fletching, runecrafting, and basic crafting. We have a full range of wood that can be utilized. Make each wood have a wand orb bow and cbow stock. Make it allow the path we have set up in wc utilize the ores they added that they havent touch since the mining rework and make the cbows go up to Elder rune, best bow can be elder wood as a t90 bow. As for wand and orb you can make it where you have to go to a certain runecrafting alter to make the w and orb usable. We could even add staffs to the fletching as well. They got dungeoneering right in this regard. Then we can add certain hunter/farming mobs that we can skill to get hide/ cloth to make armor thus giving up to t90 magic and range gear making them just as easily accessable. Yes will bis still be expensive, but making it to where t90 gear can easily be obtained would go a long way in dropping prices of other cb styles. 1 more thing, they could add a special wand/orb, staff, bow and crossbow that requires alot of stuff to be done but will result in a true t90 weapon with a cool effect like that mattock of time and space etc. This will give us a chase item like melee has masterwork As for magic, magic is way to far behind, 4taa is what keeps magic even remotely in the same area code as the other styles. They need to do another full combat overhaul just for magic before they even address the Fsoa or release t95 duals imo
for me the worst part of rs3 was the bossing, the amount of learning you need to do to even attempt some of the bosses, especially with switches and other stuff. OSRS does it well, have sth that is complicated like inferno for a miniscule increase in strenght, its mostly just for looking good, but most bosses in OSRS are as noob friendly as it gets and and runelite tbh does most of the bosses for you. In Rs3 if you are on revo you cut your damage pretty much in half, if you cant have good rotations you pretty much do 30% of your damage you could do, but I am not really inclided to learn pvm to that extend, so I feel like i am locked out from 90% of high level content. For Necro its just revo (and a minor amount of manual) and go, I deal more damage on my tank armor for necro then with my sirenic and ascensions(who are way better perked up), while running around with 15k health and 20% dodge chance. And necro is just so much cheeper as well, as you said, as long as I will play rs3 necro is the last combat style I will prob ever use for any content.
Necro is just the easiest so all noobs pvm more. Everything else can suck and they don’t even care. I makes me so sad the state mage is in. My first 99 years ago and my first 120. I can’t believe this but in a way I can. Range has always had its time to shine and now it’s like a big f you to the players who don’t want to take part in Necro or range. Melee feels nice
I mean seeing the fsoa get nerfed into an unusable state just for necro to get released like 2 weeks later and be infinitely better than the OG staff ever was... Kinda made me lose all faith in the combat team
You basically have to kill switchscape as much as possible. Melle the best course of action would proabaly be making a way for the passive effects of things such as the jaws of the abyss and the abyssal Scourge an enchant to higher level gear. make it cost a pretty penny but make it availble. with range... make a way for special attacks to become abilities. most abilities in the range skill dont feel good to use unless you have the fairly high level gear. though i havent used ranged since necromancy came out.
I personally believe all bosses should be killable by a regular person. The reward for using all the switches should be an increase in kill time making the boss better for gp/hr. That makes the most sense to me. I think it's poor design to require all the switches to actually kill bosses.
The biggest problem right now is powercreep. Our current selection of bosses isn't built for the damage being dealt and the damage being taken is too little due to damage reduction, so we have to wait too long to have a new better selection. When looking at Vorkath, it perfectly represents these issues in powercreep and healing also. When looking at the hp of Vorkath, it doesn't make sense when looking at the boss mechanics since the boss is very simple at it's core, so you would think it should have less health as well but it doesn't. This is because of the rapid increase of damage we got from Necro, which made all the other bosses too trivial too fast, so the boss selection couldn't keep up (arguably it started with grico or more likely with FSOA, which was too easy to use as well). The other issue with the intense Necro powercreep is that it trivialized the skill ceiling as well. The developers have stated previously that skipping boss mechanics is fine as long as the players are skilled enough but now every mechanic is being skipped while the skill ceiling is lowered. Breaking the fundamentals of a lot of bosses. Now we look at the damage taken at Vorkath. Especially from the minions that keep chipping the player with 1-3k hits while coming out of nowhere, at a boss that is relatively simple yet the passive damage taken is way too huge. Though it would be fine if some higher tier bosses did less auto attack damage regardless and only had hard hitting mechanics, this isn't the type of boss Vorkath is. High hitting auto damage works at some harder bosses because it encourages complex defensive ability rotations, looking at Yakamaru north tank, beastmaster tank and backup, Kerapac hm p4, maybe Vorago bomb tank and such. These hard hits aren't simply passive auto attacks but attacks that have become a mechanic in their own right. Negating these fun mechanics through passive damage reduction and healing powercreep just takes away the balance of the encounter and what the developers had intended for the players when making the boss. Back to Vorkath, the high auto attack damage there doesn't even exist for this purpose but just to balance out this type of powercreep, which has become a problem at a lot of other places. This powercreep being mainly animate dead/darkness, cryptbloom/necro tank and reaver. If this defensive powercreep were replaced with defensive ability interaction however, that takes more skill to use, then cancelling these boss mechanics by fighting against them instead of passively absorbing them would be more balanced in the sense of if the player is skilled enough, then it should be fine. Using defensives at the right order and at the right times and all that. However if replacing all this healing and damage reduction, it would need to be some sort of buff to current defensives. Though defensives are already too powerful despite being wasteful, so it creates an issue. The idea would be to nerf defensives without tank gear and buff them further with tank gear and such. So it creates even more skill in terms of going without tank gear as well and gives tank more meaning in ability interaction instead of just a passive. Similar to how power armor buffs abilities like rapid fire and berserk.
I think that they should make a system that gives variety of effects to the same gear with things like perks. Something like it was in a dead game called Spiral Knights, there were more types of damage that dealt more ore less damage based on monster weaknesses. So if I want end game gear I can aquire it with less effort but if I want to be able to do every single thing to the max I would need multiple varians of the same gear
Idk about critbuffs, i think the community just needs to accept nerfs, but for the cost disparity we either need some cheap middle upgrades or move power from the upgrades to the base set. Ranged this is fairly easy, move power from grico to rico and maybe introduce a baby bolg like how we have baby lengs, we already have t90 dracolich being fairly cheap. Magic probably needs something new to catch up anyway, it would be great if this was part of the base kit but could also be a 10-100m uncommon drop like gconc. Melee this is the hardest. None of the individual upgrades are that strong or expensive (except ezk, lengs are a relatively small upgrade over scourge) but there's like a dozen 100m purchases melee has to make to be good. I don't really have a suggestion here, melee is actually the style that imo feels the best to upgrade rn since most upgrades are both attainable and impactful but that also makes it harder to find places to upgrade the base toolkit. Buff melee abilities even more i guess? Edit: actually what is up with dracolich and vorkath spike price disparity
I agree with everything you said, especially the bit at 2-4 mins. its growing pains for sure since they want to modernize all the styles and reduce the complexity/apm like what they did with Necro. right now its a problem they created for themselves by having so many different weapon upgrades for the other styles over the years which created EoF/switchscape, especially Melee the switch-scape for Melee is on a whole nother level compared to range imo where Necro you just have 1 weapon upgrade and the t90 isnt even necessary to EoF to pump out good dps so you can skip it. and i agree i cant stand the reliance of crit buffs for the other styles which just enhances the need for switchscape. not sure how they are going to fix it without just removing adreline all together and swapping everything to just cd base since a hydrix bolt swap is just too damn good and if they nerf hydrix bolts that will hurt the styles preformance since they need these swaps.
Bro 90% of the players who left can't do switches like that I can't even do Full Manual and I've been playing for years, it's just horrible design, the reason people won't do high enrages is due to switches being necessary, they should be there for people who want faster kills thus more rewards per hour but not necessary cutting out 90% of the player base from that content. Like I don't get why anyone would even do that, I can't handle defensives most of the time while trying to do a rotation how the fuck am I now suppose to add switches into that? Adding an extra 2-3-4 clicks isn't fun for anyone that's why Jagex was getting rid of switch scape, I'd much rather have the 4TAA from FSoA back where you can do the one swap to another item and swap back was fun and certainly not necessary, that was fine, having multiple switches necessary to complete end game content is the dumbest shit I've ever heard because not only did half the player base hate EOC and couldn't handle the mechanics, there were entire uproars on the forums about having too many switches, why on earth would anyone want to struggle like that in a videogame? If you want to make harder bosses just make Zuk like bosses or Croesus like bosses that require entire teams to finish without upping the scale of life points of said boss by millions, that makes the game not fun, keep the boss the same life points so friends can get together and kill the boss easier, that way hard mode and high enrage isn't as tedious as it is now where literally nobody except the top switchscape players can complete said content, especially with that content being revolved around end game players, I know people would think this is a horrible idea but it's not like you can bring 5 alts into a bossing instance and cheese it anyways so this would just overall bring way more fun to the game whilst keeping switches in the game for those who want to solo, this is a win win for everyone, imagine hopping in with 5 friends to kill Zuk, it'd be a blast even for mid level players to attempt, that's what Destiny 1 got right, even the players who got everything unlocked like the Ghally would stick around to help out low level players with their God Tier items they earned previously, this would bring back a lot of joy to Runescape I believe.
Honestly coming back to RS3 from other mmos, the way actions go off feel so clunky compared to other games with ability queuing, this is the main gripe for me i do not like manual. With the current iteration its just clunky when you compare it to any other game so it screws up already learned muscle memory so much its not even funny.
@@assi5894 This is so much due to the tick system. While other games run on tick systems, this games ticks are so damn slow that it kinda feels like you are playing with a constant 200 ms ping. Necro is the only reason I got into pvming, and I am having a blast.
yeah death skulls is insane still. Kinda feels like the damage %s on necro are still just higher than everything else. When you don't have a damage boost up on other styles you hit like nothing...
They have already nerfed necro into the ground, if the other styles still aren’t up to par with it then those need to be tuned more. If you nerf necro any more then it will be unrecognizable from where it started and people will just quit
I hate the tick system I hope they fix it instead of patching it. Also gcd is way too long like I have to time everything at a 1.8 s intervals??? That's messed-up, in lol for example if you are an ad carry you buy in most of them atk speed upgrades.,in rs3 there is no equivalent to that at all.
Cooldown reduction items would actually be really cool. It wouldn’t be possible to go faster than a tick, but maybe having some abilities go on a shorter timer would be awesome.
Necromancy is basically the new floor. They can't touch it. It's caused a bunch of issues by violently yanking the ambient power level up, but it's here to stay. The casuals can do a lot they couldn't and for the general player Necromancy did a lot of good. It's better for the game that it stays as it is imo, even though it's worse for many of the dedicated pvmers. Maybe bring skulls down a peg or two. Its absurd. Ranged needs to be blunted. I'm all for effort being rewarded, but Ranged is in its own category of damage atm. It has 1 t95. Unless we count the armor, which is pseudo t95. There's a lot of skill to Ranged, that's good, it should do a lot, but it shouldn't be 20% or more ahead of everything else in damage. Melee needs to go up. It barely edges Necromancy if you're sweating and it has a bunch of t95s. It's swapping as much as Ranged, but is less complex. It also has to be in md and takes more damage from a plethora of sources like zerk and melee hits usually being harder at bosses. Coupled with SS doing less for melee than any other style since it's heals diminish with bigger hits. Ranged has the option to split soul removing heals, but also regens health insanely fast outside of it due to things like grico and rapid fire. I think with split soul active a lot, ranged should be comparative with melee for damage. You're trading the healing of ss for the ability to apply the damage at a range. Magic is a bit of an odd one. It's weaker than necromancy, but not by a significant margin. It also has 1 t95. Give magic dw with a spec and passive and tectonic with a passive, and I imagine we have a real style on out hands. So, tbh, I think magic is alright given it's lagging in gear. It's also less complex so even if it gets these and it's still easier to execute, that's good. Or if they make as complex, then it should rival the other 3. A lot of people want fsoa to go back, but as an avid magic user, no. Absolutely not. The recursive crits were a massive issue for future crit focused content. I could see them maybe returning autos instead of an ability hit, so we get the effects, but I'd rather see them just dial the numbers up or add crit chance to the spec. The issue with exponential scaling is we don't perceive it well. We were ridiculously close at the crit chance being in the 40s to it going god mode. If you know exponential graph curves, we were around the point it begins to ramp up. Any more crit chance, even a few percent, could lead to something like 50-100k more dpm. A further 1-2% getting us into the 50s would add even more until we hit 60% and we are doing like 2m dmg suns with upper bands probably not being like 2-3x higher. No thanks, recursive crits were a massive issue for the future. They can not return to that spec. What we should want is a set of styles that all come with up and down sides. If we want a style that's cheap, learner friendly and safe, we go necromancy, but we trade off damage output for those upsides. If you wanna juggle and can stick to a target like glue while also taking a bunch of damage, then that should be rewarded in some way, damage imo. Also have these decisions inside of styles. We get a set effect for tectonic for example. Now if you want to choose cryptbloom, you're built like a bunker, but you don't get that set effect. Etc. Ideally they hit a state where decisions and inputs reflect outputs. If a player wants to camp 1 weapon, wants tank armor to make it more safe, then they won't do as much damage and thats fine. If they whine, they whine. They can't have it all. Eofs are an odd one. Having them to whee they could have multiple slots for multiple specs would probably solve it.
A few specific changes I feel would help along with some more general speculation? Why is 30k hitcap for melee an issue already? Can we just engine update it to like 100k, then set it to 40 or 50k and they can dial this to whats right? Melee has 3 primary abilities that often hitcap at 30k, roar claws, leng spec, OP, with a few other specs being relegated to bad or only good outside zerk because the cap like ags. Buff the hitcap, buff the leng passive rate and the damage, add ezk passive and make it halberd range, and maybe tune a few abilities up and melee is great? Take ranged and blunt sgb, db, and/or bolg specs a bit. Nothing crazy, but just some. One of the beta versions had bolg and db nerfed and players raised a fuss saying it was weak so they buffed them and those are the versions we have now. Clearly overtuned, so let's undo that and see. Part of the point of the beta and rebuilding the system was that its much easier to do these changes. Let's just do it. If it's heavy handed, they can undo some. Give fsoa a passive, my idea is adding an effect to flow where flow also grants crit chance. Then make sonic a channel like conc that grants flow each hit. Magic is Channel focused, lets lean into that. Add in the duals and dps armor set effects and there's so much room for stuff that I can't even narrow down the stuff floating around in my head to what I feel would be best. Necro also has a ridiculous amount of space to explore. We have 3 items that lean into different areas and I want to see them finish sets out. Mh leans into necrosis, lantern into souls, and armor into conjures. So much room to add complexity and skill expression.
I'm not saying the OG staff should return in its full form bc there def were problems, esp at the higher crit% and peak dpm with good crits. That could easily be resolved, tho, by making certain crit boosts affect only ability damage. Or if auto attacks capped at 25% crit chance. Or they could force autos to fizzle after their second recast (so it has some level of recursion but not 'infinite'). Or a variety of other things that solve the exponential curve issue without completely ruining the staff. Autos simply worked and felt better. The staff is way more fun to use when you can get those pop off rotations tbh... Its spec is called instability it was designed to have variability. Also, who cares about damage output at this point, as long as its within reason, games already chalked with necro and ranged. The current staff is only capable of getting ~500k damage/spec at 100% crit rate............ Its almost power crept out at its maximum potential lol. The damage you try to imply the old fsoa did is also way overinflated... 50% crit chance got the OG staff ~420k-450k damage/spec [1.5 4x recurring autos]. 60% got 550k-620k [3.7 4x recurring autos]. 70% got 750k-850k [7.9 4x recurring autos]. Sure, the peak dpm would be higher but you can't just base your argument on the 99.9% scenario docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QuizzdxERk7JpnCw3fWZHp3y_xwhYcGhxeL7r6CmxAw/edit?usp=sharing
@@FroggieGames I'd be fine if the staff returned to autos, although the rune cost wouldn't be welcomed. I think there's just a lot of better solutions to the staff spec rather than going back. Also, the link you sent in the spreadsheet says staff goes infinite when the 2nd auto has a 33% shot, which is at 66%. Higher than I recall, but the table is showing 4 autos at most off a single hit, which the issue is that any single hit results in many. At 50% the 4th auto has a 6.25% shot to crit which over the 40-50 hits done will happen multiple times and many more happen the higher it goes. So value wise, yes granted, I was off, but the exponential growth is something that happens very quickly and we weren't far off. Recursive crits are basically my 1 "fuck no" when it comes to it. I'd rather see a proper design that rewards skillful use than the gamble stick, but I agree it can use love in its current state.
im very happy with necro...it brought me back into the game and now i am actually enjoying bossing again...for the first time in my 18 yr journey i feel like i can actually handle myself well...
Switching is clunky and a pain in the ass. Give us more in depth boss mechanics that require good defensive skill or traversal skill usage. If this game wasn't on such a slow tick system, sure, go for switches, but as it stands, switching is such a hassle and is not fun in the slightest. I would wager that even high end pvmers don't necessarily like switches, they do it because it is necessary to get the highest dpm
Nerfing the FSoA when everybody was against it was one of the stupidest ideas Jagex has ever come up with, like talk about out of touch with your player base haha
Their argument was that we all voted in the beta too fast and our votes where therefore irrelevant... It took like 10 mins to realize that the beta staff was poorly designed garbage lmao. :(
Hell no, nerfing it was the correct way to go. Mage is still unbelievably strong, it's used in almost all brid setups because of it's consistency in dps. As mage currently stands it's a great style and very well balanced.
They did extremely well on that rebalance imo, added consistency to fsoa rotations while also increasing the skill ceiling with 4taa and removing broken utility with spell swapping, sorry but brainless noobs never should’ve been able to just tendrils and abs spam on blood barrage to dump 600k dmg while healing back 30k+ hp 😂🤣
@@ChronicRS_YT you do realise 4 ticking is a bug? Tbh its should have been removed out of the game whit beta. Sadly they haven't gone through whit auto rework for other styles attack
Been playing this game for almost 20 years on and off, what pissed me off was when EOC came out abilities were introduced into the game and it made it feel weird, like as if it was trying to be WoW, but anyhow the reason why OSRS is so popular is because the nature of the game is a lot more relaxed than others, AFK is huge now and they making it almost a feature of the game, probably because the game itself can be tedious and they know but won't fixed it because microtransactions can help you skip sooo much of the grind. OSRS is simple point and attack, point and move, then if you wanted the complexity you would get into gear swapping and prayer flicking, and tick manipulation ect.... My biggest issue with RS3 and combat in general is that it requires a lot of input to get the best out of your character, even at maxed combat you will feel stupid weak playing the game without actively interacting with it, not to mention the amount of buffs in the game is wild and all locked behind a lot of old/new content, the game has evolve and its gotten too complex for casual players. Another issue is that the best abilities not even the best gear that a whole other topic but the best abilities are locked behind End Game Content/Bosses, effectively making you feel weak even at maxed combat, one good example of this is the fact that the price or time investment of 99 prayer is stuuuuupid and then you have to somehow come up with and even stupider amount GP to actually use it just blows my mind. I understand the GP is not really an issue in RS3 but casuals don't spend enough time in game to make these figures.
I think we need t95 dual wield wand and orb with a special effect that increases damage exponentially overtime after using a less popular ability to bring it back to relevancy
necromacy is lacking ring, aura and the FUCKING add on into the slayer helmet for god sake...... idk how they over looked that. i love doing slayer because of the helmet boost, but with necro it's sad AF....... someone needs to bring this to light.
I'm already over Melee Range and Magic, I didn't care for Melee and Range before considering how bad Melee was and how expensive Range was, Magic was the sweet center I spent all my Billions on FSoA and Cryptbloom and spend mad time questing to get Animate Undead only to have the entire style nerfed into the ground ALL WHILE RANGE WAS THE SUPERIOR FUCKING STYLE WHAT KIND OF INBRED MORONIC THINKING IS THAT?!!??!?!? I can't even boss most bosses due to the "You have to be dead perfect to survive every single boss you face" Like why is there no leeway for mistakes the whole thing is a horrible design, FSoA + Cryptbloom + Animate Undead (Pre nerf) was the perfect combat style for learning bosses as I wouldn't die fucking instantly or take 900% extra damage for no reason other than "It has to be difficult somehow" Yeah difficult for people who aren't in max gear with quest cape max stats and best in slot shit, but for the people who do have that stuff the game should be a fucking breeze, there's and listen very carefully when I say this to all future devs who intend to work in gaming, THERE IS NO FUCKING SCENARIO WHERE A PLAYER WHO'S WORKED FOR YEARS AND HAS ALL THE BEST SHIT SHOULD BE STRUGGLING IN END GAME, none, and that is very true for the Range combat style, nobody is struggling over there with their 5 second fucking kills, but Melee and Mage was struggling hard only for Mage to get nerfed before Range, it's idiocy at it's finest from devs who don't know the difference between a man and a woman let alone balance from non-balance, put these people on a tight rope see what happens lmfao
That isn't how combat is though. End game bosses SHOULD be complex and you SHOULD have to learn them to beat them. You SHOULD have to spend a lot of time to build your account up. Bosses should have minimum geae and stat reauirements. Abilities should have upgrades. What shouldn't be in the game is the unintuitive and clunky gear switches that make some combat styles feel fucking awful.
Everybody keeps saying that combat is better now, but I’ve noticed absolutely no difference since the update, I’m starting to think it either only applies to the highest tier gear and abilities or its cope.
The problem with combat right now is you have 99s that compete with a 120 skill they took away the extra crit and right now theres no reason to get 120 necro cuz of a bunch of whiny ass pvm gatekeepers
they made it easier so people would quit crying about how hard it is because every runescape player is lazy af its sad it wont be much longer and the game will probably shut down
Most runescape players aren't lazy af...most players simply hate switches. I know of no other game that has switches like this one does. Some games have a few switches for sure, but they keep ot to a minimum because it is an unfun mechanic. There should be less than half the switches in the game right now, and bosses should be more complex to reward learning boss mechanics, not making the fight about how well you micro your inventory.
Combat continues to suck. Everyone doesnt have the keyboard skills for full manual. Revolution is nowhere close to full manual. We Pay to play. We should choose how we enjoy playing.
Necromancy is super lame, even nerfed it's so strong it carries people. My friend can back after years and now he thinks he's good at pvm now 😂. I'm glad the combat update happened because it made the other more fun and more skilled combat styles a lot more viable again.
This game needed a simple combat style like necro. Switchscape is simply stupid. There is zero reason for ranged to be so mechanically intense and switch heavy. Upgrades to abilities? Love it. Horizontal progression or progression of equipment baseed on older equipment? Fucking awesome. Switching 3 EoFs, two to three arrow types, and whatever else they switch to? (Especially on the tick system) Clunky and unituitive as all hell. I want my complexity to come from boss mechanics, not having to master correct switching for 1-3 abilities multiple times a minute. Have 1 or 2 switches if you want, thats fine, but make them necessary, at max, once or twice every 2-3 minutes. I absolutely hated how combat was evolving before necromancy came out. I love pvm'ing now. I am so much less frustrated now than I was before.
@@joshuajones1721 switch scape was never needed and was there only for the sweats. The majority of thr PVM community would tell you that. If you need necromancy to like pvm, then you never truly liked it in the first place. It was not needed to simplify combat at all. There are so many ways to make it not as complex. All thr addition of necro did was bring an over powered combat style that just makes the title of RS3 being easy scape hole even more truth. Don't get me wrong the accessibility is good for newer players, but the power behind it it ridiculous even with the nerfs it is still thr best combat style for the majority of players.
