MY THOUGHTS ON THE HOLO AUDIO MAY KTE DAC vs PLAYBACK DESIGNS MPD-8!!!! 

You're welcome, David. I intend to do a DAC shootout under 5k when I can get hold of three competent components to do that with, so that may interest you as well.👍🎧🙂

Welcome aboard! 🙏

My pleasure!

I used HQP upsampling with the May and while it can increase transient attack and spatial characteristics it can actually hurt the “organic/analog” timbre of the May in NOS. The MPD-8 is in another league in this regard and also does so with its internal upsampling to DSD so source track or pre-processing isn’t necessary.

Well said, Dan, almost word for word as I was about to describe. I agree with your statement wholeheartedly. My intention here was just to talk about the two Dac's separately and comparatively as stand-alone entities. If we start adding all sorts of other processes into the signal path, then it really is hard to get a sense of their strong points and their relative weak points, if any. But nothing is perfect that also needs to be said. Thanks for the question and the answer 👍😁🎧🙏

My immediate thoughts also were to talk about using HQPlayer. Even with the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE ,as it can do PCM1536 and DSD1024 it makes for a strong use case. Finding a suitable filter/noise-shaper for different amps/speaker combinations can be tricky. I use multiple speaker amp combos from same DAC. I find up-sampling to high-rate PCM sounds "harder" than DSD256 for example. DSD mode however results in lower output regardless of the -3dB HQPlayer suggested attenuation to avoid clipping from potential overloaded samples. So much more gain is needed to reach same level. A modern CPU (AVX2) or a beefy machine is however needed especially when up-sampling to DSD. I do not see much difference between MPD-8 up-sampling to DSD128 and using HQPlayer to SDDM/DSD.

Yes, I couldn't agree more with your comment. I found upsampling to DSD through my Lumin U1, and sending that to the May KTE when I owned one did tame the signal from the dac. When sending that signal to my mini dsp shd. That seemed to do the trick as the Dac's XLR output signal is over 5 volts. And was a little hot at times on some music sources.👍🎧👌

Great suggestion! I will do a video demonstrating that. The preamp in the mpd-8 is really world-class. I'll definitely get onto that.🙏👍😁🎧

I second this. No reviewer actually bothers to seriously compare the amp direct/preamp stage of these high ends dacs, so it would be something unique to do. At this price they presume you will just be using a matching 20k preamp.

@archonblaze No problem. I think that's a great idea, I will do a video on the preamp of the mpd-8. I love hearing from you guys with great suggestions like this. It will be done. I have a new DAC in here for review. The audio music Dac 1, which is a DAC/ Preamp as well. So we will do a shootout between these two Dac's and their preamps. 👍👍👍😁

Yes, it's the Gold Standard as far as anything I've heard. Thanks for your comment.👍

@Coneman3 Andreas Koch really is the forefather of DSD. He was involved with the initial implementation of it at Sony, and his secrets in that area are well-guarded and protected from what I understand. But of course, if you stick your head up in any industry, someone is always gonna try and chop it off.

Awesome to hear, yeah, I do agree. With the class A circuitry, it is a warm running DAC, and it does need to be up to speed to really sound its best.🎧👍🙂

No it doesn't pal. It's in your brain 🙂

@@johnenglishIII haha, maybe it’s your brain that doesn’t process sound very well.

@@johnenglishIII What exactly is "in his brain" ?

Hi, thanks for your comment. I've heard your DAC, and it is quite a nice dac. I just find the May kte a little sweeter but not by a lot.

Thanks 👍🙏 l haven't yet had an opportunity to hear this, Dac, but I'm hoping too soon. I know someone who has one.

Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you enjoyed it.👍

Hi, thanks for that great suggestion. Can I first of all say I've been at this for about a month now with zero experience before. I'm certainly no professional and have no ambition to be. What I say will be from my heart it's what I really believe in. I want it to be raw. I don't want it to be polished, and I will never lose my integrity doing this. If I feel like I am, I'll just shut it all down. My MPT-8 has just arrived from America it's at the dealer now ready to pick up. I've just got to go and get it sometime within the next week. At that point, I'm going to do a much more in-depth video about both of those components. I'd suggest that will be interesting to you and many others, so stay tuned. I promise you it's coming.

Yes, l couldn't agree more. I will do a video about my progression up the ladder to where I am now. It just might help people to understand the Dac's that I have auditioned and owned to get to the point where I am now. Im completely happy with the mpd-8 and have stopped looking for my self. But of course always interested in anything new that comes out. Thanks for your comment. I really love hearing from people.🙏🎧😁

Which dCS you heard/compare to? Is it dCS VIvaldi APEX DAC with master clock and upsampler?

​@@QQ-td9id I personally owned a Rossini at the same time as the MPD-8, and the Playback was easily the winner. My close friend owned a Vivaldi APEX and sold it within a few months. The Rossini APEX I heard at CanJam was much softer than the non-APEX, so I'm not all that pleased with dCS' direction to remove the incisive nature of their DACs for a much more bland and softer sound. Particularly as the timbre and organic sense of space doesn't approach the MPD-8 to make up for it.

Thank you. Yeah, it is an amazing DAC for the money. In this latest shootout, it also very much holds its own. Thanks for your comment it just lets me know I'm giving you the content you want to see.🙏👍🎧

Hi, thanks for your question. Yes, I have. While it improved in some metrics, it also took away from some of the natural timbre and believability of the presentation for me.👍🎧

Yeah, the MTD-8 tends to do that to people 😂🎧👍

@@shanestephenson8423 Ha, ha! Yes, so I've heard. Almost none coming onto the second hand market.

@asegal4677 Yeah, when people get their hands on one of those, they stop looking for Dac's

@@shanestephenson8423 I feel like I'm done with DACs now too for a while and I've heard some good ones. The Tambaqui itself was certainly no slouch yet I felt compelled to keep looking until I found the MPD. I wonder when Andreas will release the successor to the MPD-8. I hadn't asked him but plan to. That will be interesting!

@asegal4677 From what I understand, there's nothing planned on the horizon. Being an fpga DAC, literally, it can be reprogrammed with a patch you download to bring it up to whatever spec Andreas wants it to be. Another reason why it's an attractive purchase. 👍

Yeah, that's a good idea. I will do a video about that because it's quite an interesting story. Thanks for the suggestions.🙏👍🎧

Hi, thanks for the question. If I can get my hands on one, I'll certainly review it for the channel. 👍

Hi Michael, yes I have had the Terminator plus and the Terminator in my system. I just found them to be a little too analytical and a fraction digital sounding for me. I actually purchased the May KTE and owned it for about a year and was very happy with the detail vs its ability to still sound analogue. But ultimately system matching to components and to your tastes are the most important aspect of all of this. None-the-less The Terminator plus is a very good Dac...

As much as i know Terminator doesn't play native DSD, only DOP, whilst May has separate 1 bit circuitry secton for this conversion.

@nickolaymiltenov Hi Nick Yes, you are correct👍

Hi there, yes, I have heard most of the internal Lumin Dac's and would put the May kte above them all for musicality.🙂🎧👍

Both are not of value

Hi, thanks for the question. I would still rank the mpd 6 higher than the May KTE. The mpd-6 is a wonderful Dac. It's just not quite as resolved as its big brother. But it's also quite a bit more expensive than the May kte which still represents amazing value for its quality.

Thanks for the reply

Hi, thanks for the question. I'm fairly eclectic in regard to my music tastes. I'll pretty much listen to anything I'm in the mood to listen to at the time. I've heard the Berkeley Dac but not the Alpha reference yet. But if l get a chance, l will.

@@shanestephenson8423 Thanks for the reply. The Berkeley gets high praise from reviewers, including Robert Harley, the editor in chief of The Absolute Sound. And reportedly, the top Synergistic Research fuse takes the Berkeley to new heights.

I'm sorry, I really have no idea about the Marantz multichannel setup. It's not something I've had very much to do with, so I'm not sure I could help you there.

Hi there, I have heard the Rowland Aeris Dac. It's not at the same level as the MPD-8. I would say it is a mid-fi dac. It's not as resolved as the mpd-8. I remember it was a little overwhelmed with complex passages of music. It never got digital sounding but just not at the same level as mpd-8. It's still a good dac. 👍🎧

@@shanestephenson8423 Thanks! Great information! I was asking around about the Aeris just couldn't get any negative feed back. Everyone seem like they was scared to tell me any negative thoughts about the Aeris, Everything was just positive or they did'nt respond back...Thanks Again!

Hi, no, I'm not familiar with those Dac's, so I could not advise on your question sorry. If I get a chance, I'll be sure to have a listen.

Hi there, thanks for your comment, although I do need to clear a couple of things. First of all, the playback designs equipment does not up sample it has an fpga based algorithm that works differently to typical up sampling. The other thing is I run roon and was always comparing the same audio feed between the two pieces of equipment. I accept the fact that these are too vastly different priced and different levels of equipment. The reason I did this comparison was simply to illustrate the differences between these two components. My hope here was to try and articulate two very different sonic signatures that could be picked up audibly over RU-vid.

@@shanestephenson8423 the Playback Designs absolutely upsamples (indeed it is the FPGA that does it). I have had very technical discussion with Andreas Koch about it... But it is also on the PD website anyway. I am an Electrical Engineer fyi. All good with what you say. But essentially you were comparing a NOS DAC in NOS mode vs an SDM DAC (Sigma Delta Modulator). Nothing wrong with that. But using a good upsampling would narrow the gap more. Roon can upsample to DSD256 to the May DAC. Then turn off upsampling to the PD DAC. Would make a nice comparison. And then leave upsampling on for both DACs for a better comparison again.

@ccgmail8025 As I said in my previous answer, I have roon and use it, and as I also said, I was streaming exactly the same resolution files to both Dacs. You can not change what the playback design dac outputs. There is no way to switch it off, as you say. I, too, have spoken extensively with Andreas, and his format is different to standard up sampling it's just not done the same way as he explained it to me. If there has been a misunderstanding in what I had written in my previous answer, I apologise for that. Hopefully, I've cleared things up now.

@@shanestephenson8423 I never mentioned anything about 'standard' upsampling. There is no such thing as standard upsampling anyway. ESS, AKM, Roon, Chord, HQPlayer, PS Audio all upsample using their own algorithms. Andreas also upsamples using his own. My main point is that everything is upsampled whereas with the May in NOS mode, there is no digital filtering at all. You can bypass the most audible part of Andreas upsampling by upsampling to DSD256 in Roon, and comparing that with Roon's DSD256 feeding Holo May. Anyway I don't think you have the Holo anymore right? Keep up the great work with the channel anyway.

@ccgmail8025 Thanks very much. I do still have the May here, and I certainly did compare the audio streams identically. I may not have been clear about that in my video. I possibly just assumed it would have been a given. I possibly should have mentioned it in hindsight. As far as up sampling goes, I have been told by Andreas that he has a whole different way of doing things that no one else does and actually prefers not to call it up sampling. Anyway, we're just going around in circles. Thanks for your comment. Everybody's welcome to their opinion and their position here on this channel.👍🎧🙂

Excellent news, I love it when that happens. You can actually spend less and get more well done.👍

@@shanestephenson8423 that is the name of the Dac... Schiit Audio Yggdrasil Less is More.

Hi, Thanks. I'm glad you're enjoying it🙏 I am in Geelong Victoria.

Yeah, HQ player has its positives, but it also has its negatives. Essentially, it's up sampling, and Holo May kte works so much better in nos. But this hobby is so subjective what some people like others don't I get that too.

@@shanestephenson8423 The internal oversampling is not great, but using NOS and using a great quality upsampler takes this to the next level. Check out this review. I would love to hear your thoughts after you connected it to HQPlayer and a good USB cable. The issue with HQplayer is the overwhelming number of setting ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mHcfgQtlnP8.html

Noted.... unfortunately, I don't have a Lampizator Horizon to be able to do a comparison for you. I have heard it, but it's unfair for me to give my thoughts on something that is not fresh in my mind. All I can say now as I'm thinking back is I wasn't as impressed with it as good as it is, then I was when I first heard the MPD-8. That Dac really just blew my mind. Thanks for the question🙏👍🙂

Sure, proper conditions are necessary. One they, then. Maybe :)

Good question. It is like to want comparison between Mini and Lamborghini in terms of price or between electric and diesel in terms of drivetrain principle. May is r2r dac and Horizon is chip based and the manufacturer keeps in secret which chip exactly he used. According to me the Horizon is slightly overpriced with about 45000 dollars 😂😂😂

@nickolaymiltenov The reason that I did such a vast difference in the Dacs is that I was trying to illustrate the differences in sound between lower priced Dacs and top of the line Dacs.👍🎧🙂

I have a Vitus preamp because I have a turntable, so yes, l have to.👍🎧

Well, it's time for my opinion now. I've heard all the Lampizator Dacs in their range, and the playback designs mpd-8 is still the king, and you're quite correct It's a reference in digital conversion..

Hi, Yes, I have heard those Dac's. I'm compiling a list, and I intend to do a video listing all of the Dac's that I've either auditioned in my room owned or have heard extensively in friend's houses. Stay tuned for that one when I get it together.👍

Please include a short description of their sound and your conclusions

Hi Nick, it has pure class a circuitry in it so it does run warm, and I think it does improve every time after around 20 minutes to half an hour. If you've bought a new one, there's definitely a braking time of around 2 to 300 hours, and then it settles down and just goes from very good to that little bit better when it's warmed up.🎧👍🙂

@@shanestephenson8423 Thank you very much for answering me. I appreciate it.

@nickolaymiltenov Hi Nick, On this channel, I will always do my best to answer any question that is asked.👍

Digital has come a long way from the days when we used to describe it like that. Yes, with a poorly set up system and poor component choice, we still hear those things. But good digital, such as the caliber of components we are talking about here, are nothing short of amazing when set up correctly.🎧🙂👍

@@shanestephenson8423 These issues are still addressed in reviews now. Some people just ignore these issues.

Hi, Yes, I have, I've had the Terminator and the Terminator plus in my room up against The Holo audio May kte.🙂👍🎧

@@shanestephenson8423 So Holo May is even better than that? Wow, I'll have to save up for that then!

@Thoughtflux Yes, in my opinion, the May kte is a more analogue source. The Terminator plus and the Terminator we're just to digital sounding and over detailed for me. My advice, though, is to try both for yourself. Everybody hears things differently. That's just my appraisal.🙏👍🎧

too digital

I have heard a Dac 5 signature and a Dac 4.1 balanced. Both very nice Dac's, but I just preferred the mpd-8, and the price was just prohibitive and unjustifiable in my eyes, especially when compared to the mpd-8.

@@shanestephenson8423 what exactly you preferred with mpd which was better than AN performance?

@MrBazsi888 there wasn't a lot between them other than price, which made the mpd-8 much more attractive, but I felt the mpd-8 had that analogue signature but with better detail across the audio frequency range in general.

@@shanestephenson8423 so you are admitting that AN came pretty close in performance? Mpd is analogue-like. AN is analogue. If price where the same, you would consider AN?

@MrBazsi888 Yes, by virtue of the fact that I auditioned those 2 Dac's, I was interested but not at the price they want to charge. Yes, Audio Note UK is a very good brand.🎧👍

@mjbmark Hi, it's funny you should mention that I'll be talking to Greg about getting some floorstanders in here for review at some point in the future.👍🎧

Yes have Eclipses base model and his sub. Was considering these for 2nd pair as amazing as you say no exaggeration

Little worried he may retire btw

@mjbmark I think he will probably fall over Dead while he's still building speakers. And I hope that's a long way off.🙂👌👍

Wilsons are my dream speaker $$$$ but given your Osborn review impressed they can even compete

Hi there, yes, I have had that dac in my system, and I think the May kte has the edge over the Terminator 2. In my opinion, I like an analogue sounding output stage. The Terminator 2 is over detailed for me and a little fatiguing after an hour of listening to it.

@@shanestephenson8423 Thanks for sharing your experience with me on those two dacs!😊

Hi-Fi is a very subjective hobby, and being able to back up one's thoughts about why one is better than the other is a totally personal position. You say 5%, you're not wrong thats your opinion. I say the MPD-8 is a much more evolved Dac, and I'm not wrong. No one is wrong for having an opinion.

I have an MPD-8 and have tried various DACs from $1K up to the MPD-8. Unfortunately this isn’t a quantifiable thing. What I would say, If I had to quantify it, is that the MPD-8 is between 30-40% better on many of the typical subjective listening criteria (soundstage width, micro-dynamics, for example) with the end result of being at least 100% more enjoyable.

It is considerably more than 5% but this hobby has a law of diminishing returns it's just that simple. It is impossible and quite ludicrous to say if something is 5 or 10 times it's price it should be 5 or 10 x better it just doesn't work that way in Hi-Fi. And even less so in ultra high-end audio.

@@a.s.2426 absolutely couldn't agree more. 👏

@drewyoung2102 Cool, yes I agree with you on streamers they are quite difficult to pick much difference in, and I don't recommend spending huge amounts of money on essentially what is a basic computer to stream music through. But Dacs are worth considering spending a little more on if you can. 👍🎧🙂

Hi, Yes, it's a nice Dac. I'm a fan of dCS. I nearly purchased a Rossini apex before I settled on the MPD-8. 👍🎧🙂

@tarquineous Hi, yes, these Dacs are considerably different in price, but I just wanted to do the comparison to be able to articulate what you get for a certain price point in Dac's. Then, of course, there's the law of diminishing returns.👍🎧

Hi there, Yes, the May is a great Dac. I owned it for about a year and loved it. I still do.👍🎧🙂

That's quite possible.

Well, first of all, welcome to the channel I'm happy to have you on board. I'm in the middle of compiling what will be a very extensive list of all the dac's I've either auditioned in my room heard at dealers in set up rooms or at people's houses. So far, to give you a bit of a preview, my list is about 30 long, and there's many more. I won't be going into all of them, of course, but I will be giving the main high-end Dac's I've listened to and some mid-fi Dac's and some budget Dac's.

@@shanestephenson8423 thanks, You can put the most important ones even in these video’s description box. Peoples definition of budget DACs, Mid-Fi, Hifi, high end DACs and ultra high end may differ. I read a comment where one claimed that the Holo May KTE was mid-fi, which I find laughable.

@goodsound4756 Yes, I agree. In my opinion, it's the best Chinese Dac I've heard so far. But in the grand scheme of things, its price range puts it in the upper mid-fi category, which essentially doesn't mean much if it performs like some high-end Dac's do, which it does.

@@shanestephenson8423 OK, for someone buying expensive DACs from brands like Playback designs, or MSB, dcs, which starts at $10 K (go up to 80K) then a $5K DAC may appear to them as mid Fi, but for the vast majority of music listeners, a DAC that costs around $5K is already in the high-end tier.

Great Review!! I subscribed instantly! Excellent coverage and reinforcement to what I have already heard, the MPD8 currently cannot be bested. -Even at six figure (US) dollar amounts!! - The finish line is reachable for mere mortals...

Hi there, I think I'll be doing a video going through what other Dac's I've auditioned and / or had in my system before I settled on the mpd-8.

Lol, yeah, l probably am👍

I just did that video to give people a comparison between one of the top Chinese dacs and one of the best dacs in the world.

​Hi Shane, Thanks for your reply I really enjoyed your video here.. I learned a lot from you too. I am new to learning how to best shop for a DAC and how to even use the device once I buy one. My av system is midline- hi-end and mostly made up of used newish components. 😮 doing that review. I sure learned a lot about what world- class DAC sounds like. I watched your video and understood that I needed to get a fine performing DAC. I can't afford to buy any of the DACs that you mentioned in your shootout video at this time. I decide to go with a high end used Cyrus DAC/ Preamp along with one of

@davidstein9129 Hi David Cyrus is a pretty good brand, so I think you've done well there. I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and you got something out of it. That's the reason for doing this..🙂🎧👍

Yes, you'll have no argument from me there. It is the best mid-fi dac I've heard. It really isn't a fair comparison, and I concede that, but people asked me what I perceived the differences to be between the two Dac's, and I hope this video explained that. Thanks for the comment. I love hearing from people🙏👍🎧

@@shanestephenson8423 no I think it’s an important comparison

​@JingoLoBa57 Thank you. Yes, I guess for contextual purposes, it's a good comparison for people to be able to may be get an idea about the difference in price between Dac's around 10K vs the ultra high-end. I hope I was able to articulate the differences in the video.🙏👍🎧

I have to differ with you there. I get what you mean. The medium is different. But the original music started off analog. It's what we choose to do with the analog sound that differs. Benefits to recording it digitally because there's no degradation. But then there's that analog magic we all love. But analogue formats degrade over time. Personally, I'm glad there's lots of different sounding Dac's out there for people to choose between. My own personal position is I want a DAC that reproduces a classic analog sound with no digital harshness. I think that's when you get the best of both worlds between the two formats. One that doesn't degrade but also one that sounds like analog. But that's my own personal opinion.👍🎧

They are all analog from the DAC to the rest of the system. {Digital to Analog Conversion}. Ether, if done to an excellent degree, should sound like the master recording. Or theoretically, like the band being recorded.

Digital to Analog,a good DAC should sound analog. Because it feeds an analog system, and also plays often analog created music. I dont want analog music rock, pop, jazz, classical music to sound digital, just because the media is digital. That should not be the case if you use a good dac. I' m not against digital, but it's just a recording and storing media. Like one of the other comment above mentions this too. Analog= natural sounding. And to mho to judge it helps a lot of having experienced live music

You're entitled to your opinion.

Thanks for your critique. Can I first of all say I've been doing this for a month now with no prior experience other than my love for this hobby. The remote remark was just one reason to give people an understanding of the differences and functions between the two of them. That particular video was not a fair comparison because both of these components are in totally different price brackets. But I take your point I could have been a little clearer in my articulation and in the differences between those two particular components. I'm working on getting better at this so all I can do is ask for your patience it's not going to be polished and professional that's not what I intend to do with the channel. I just want to give my heartfelt opinion on what I've heard and what my experiences have been in the hobby in general.

From your comment, I thought that I must have been watching a totally different video to the one you commented about, so I watched the above video again. While I was watching, I took 1.5 pages of notes about specific points which Shane made about either one DAC or the other, or about the differences between the 2 DACs. The comments about the 2 remotes occupied around 1 minute for goodness sake.

Hi there, thanks for your question. Can I say that my opinion is that the job of a Dac is to convert a digital signal into an analogue one. An analogue signal is coloured it has harmonic distortions in it, which the human ear finds pleasurable. Again, in my opinion, perfect measuring Dac's don't sound like analogue. Perfect measuring Dac's sound fatiguing to most people. Detailed analogue signals keep us in our seat and sitting in the room enjoying the music. If you like engaging us more with the music because it sounds like it's being played live to us.

@@shanestephenson8423 So you are telling me you like lofi rather than hifi? To goal of audio reproduction is to reproduce the audio the way the mastering engineer heard it. Their speakers are flat and transparent. You are factually wrong. transparent reproduction is not fatiguing. Non flat speakers are however. Im sorry if im being mad but im tired of subjective audiophiles like you ruining the hobby.

Its not my opinion. Flat and transparent is objectively the best setup if you dont have hearing damage. If you dont like the music as the artist intended, you should start your own band or produce you own music. You have bought in to the audio salesman snake oil but havent realised it yet. @@shanestephenson8423

I own the MPD-8 myself and an Apple dongle. Some things to consider: 1) You don't mean "transparently". I believe you meant "accurately" in a technical sense. 2) There is no set of technical metrics that comprehensively allow you to determine that the reproduced sound is identical to the source in every respect. There are only metrics to measure SOME aspects of the reproduced sound (for example frequency response under certain conditions) in relation to the source. The remainder is down to listener judgment. 3) Why is it that two DACs with virtually the same technical accuracy measurements on the conventional metrics sound very different from one another? The answer is as stated in 2) above. 4) The job of a DAC is not as you stated to technically accurately reproduce the source, it is rather literally anything the listener wants it to be. In my case, I'm looking for a spiritual experience. 5) The Dongle is NOWHERE NEAR the MPD-8. No, the Dongle is much, much worse in every subjective respect. Expand your horizons, my friend. There's no comparison. You're missing out.

I was going to respond, but after reading that you are looking for a spiritual experience tells me you are a lost cause. You should look into magic crystals, horoscopes and religion. Audio quality is not a hobby for you.@@asegal4677