My Top 10 Fantasy Magic Systems 

Same lol

Dune still warrants a "Hell, yeah!" reaction I'd say.

My initial reaction: "FUCK YEAH, DOOM!" me after realizing he said Dune: "FUCK YEAH, DUNE!"

the most powerful magic is, of course, gun

I think its coz he said "doon" whereas we probably say "june"

also the best anime ever (at least fullmetal alchemist brotherhood)

> Not a book Uh, yes it is. :P It's got pages, it's got ink. It's books.

and then there's Nen from Hunter x Hunter. Maybe not conventional magic, but bloody cool and creative

Its also a manga soo there is a grey line if it's a book or not

not a novel you mean

Surprised you didn't include the Order/Chaos magic system in the Recluse series by L. E. Modesitt Jr. If it's because you haven't read it, I would recommend not only this but his other series, such as the Corean Chronicles and Imager Portfolio. I think you would appreciate how each series has its own distinct and cohesive magic system.

James Tullos Wait a min, the guy said that the best magic system is eragon? Eragon which has no limit? Really? 😵

Can I show you something I am working on?

Did you read any Witcher or Warhammer books? Witcher doesnt have much lore on magic and its extremely generic but magic in Warhammer universe is pretty damn complex as its based on emotions routed back from a demonic dimension ensuring evry miscasting can kill the mage or permanently turn him into a xhicken for egzample.

You need more Brandon Sanderson in your life. I'm really surprised you don't have more of his books/worlds/systems on your list. Elantris and ES, and Mistborn are just two planets of his Cosmere ... and not even his most interesting one. While the rules of magic are different for each of his Cosmere worlds, each system is itself subordinate to even deeper rules and deeper mysteries and a much larger story in the undercurrent. There are over a dozen books so far. The reference books you're looking for could be compiled from the Appendices from each of the Cosmere books (except maybe White Sand, for complicated in-story reasons).

And then there's Ork Majik

Even better when you do a rpg and the game master knows how to keep it dark and challenging.

The warp is a very, very, very vague magic system and though it has powerful eldritch undertones it doesn't always spell death and madness for the wielder since astartes and select mortals have unparalleled control of the warp. Also remember powerful enough psykers can become gods.

Yeah I've read a bit on Warhammer Fantasy and I absolutely loved its magic system for that same reason. I love everything Lovecraftian and tapping into the unknown otherworldly powers as a mere mortal human should come with severe consequences for its caster

You should read The Poppy War. It's magic is like that also

Awe-inspiring, unless you think the bending system is cute :)

yes, it is vetter.

@@jamest3116 To be fair, bending can be very cute.

Definitely. I wish there were real books not just comics accompanying that series. Don't get me wrong, I love comics - it's just that I usually tear through them in half an hour. I'd love to savour the story instead.

@@LunaBianca1805 let me introduce you to the Rise Of Kyoshi. :)

Ahh non-verbal magic in HP :), it was apparently difficult to learn to cast spells silently (that thing about the 'underage magic' is apparently more instinctual expression of their innate talent, just magic manifesting in them spontaneously and most young wizards can't even control it, except for Tom Riddle :)), in general magic requires lots of skill and training, learning, but truth be told Rowling didn't really set up how this magic works, really. There are some vague rules about, things that magic can't do etc., also apparently emotions (and focus) can affect wizards capabilities (for example a terrified witch Merope Gaunt who lived in a pretty screwed up family was so terrorized at home that she was pretty bad at magic), some of the rules also seem inconsistent, for instance we see how the death of a wizard usually means the spells he cast lose power and yet we learn of magic that existed for centuries, supposedly long after the wizards who cast the spells passed away, also in general it is viewed that the spells effects may weaken over time, and yet we see that some things can be enchanted forever, those are just few examples. You know I actually think that trying to set up a proper system for magic may be ultimately futile and it just strips magic of it's mystique and wonder. In Lotr for instance there is no specific magic system, magic just is, it is part of abilities of some beings and sometimes it's so blended with art and tech that it's unrecognizable, it's the expression of the will, mental powers and telepathy, Ainur powers, Elves powers even some vague 'magic' abilities of Dwarves through their crafting, innate abilities and also the black arts: sorcery and necromancy that can be learned by those few who serve the dark lords, there is mystery to it and even Tolkien himself is cautious with trying to describe magic. There are artifacts and there is use of inherent energy of spirit etc. But magic as a whole defies classification and this is I think the right approach. Magic in Earthsea is somewhat similar to that in Inheritance/Eragon cycle, the basis are the same a true language of magic intrinsically tied to it and requiring to learn the true names of everything to manifest effects of magic, though Earthsea makes it somewhat better in leaving out the rest of the rules, while inheritance cycle build and build them over time. Also maybe my memory of Inheritance cycle is a bit sketchy but isn't it actually only rare few who can learn magic in this world? In Alagaesia apparently only those few who have predisposition to it can even learn to use it through learning Ancient Language. Elves apparently have the most magicians (or spellweavers as they call them), but doesn't Oromis say specifically that among various races magic talent is exceedingly rare? So some innate abilities does play a part here and it's not like everybody can, for instance there are so called mindbreakers, people who can use mental powers like telepathy, but they can't do other magic, Roran also tried to learn magic and nothing came out of it. Dragon Riders gain magic through their bond with dragons who are magical creatures (but the dragons can't use magic consciously, at least until they really really want it or something like that :)). In Earthsea it is the same, people who show at least a tiny bit of the gift can learn the knowledge necessary (and apparently mages can sense the talent of other people who can become mages in Earthsea cycle). Similarly in most of the other fantasy series I know, even in the Witcher saga there must be some amount of magical abilities in a person before one could learn magic in one of the schools (and there are people called Sources, those who manifest especially strong abilities but can't control it until they learn the basics how to harness their talent). also in witcher there is the energy aspect again like in inheritance, but instead of using energy of their own bodies the sorcerers and mages in witcher world draw the power slowly from forces of nature (something that is impossible within inheritance as Oromis said as nobody yet made a formula to say draw energy from fire or light, while in Witcher magical energy comes from various elements and 'elemental planes').

​@@fantasywind3923 Silent casting and the instinctual magic Harry displays in the first book are undeniably similar and follow the same basic principle. He, whether consciously or subconsciously, wills something to happen. The latter is only so much more unpredictable and apparently powerful because he didn't have a grip on it or even an idea that it existed. And creating a hard magic system is not demystifying if done well. On the contrary: it elevates magic from a plot device to a tool available to a part of the world. For example the magic of Lord of the Rings is incredibly imprecisely written. For all we known Gandalf could do anything without negative repercussions, but he doesn't and the things he can and can't do are not always consistent. That's because Gandalf is a tool for Tolkien to show stuff to the reader that the main characters by all means should not be able to survive (and in canon he's also a literal tool of the gods, but that's a different topic) and thus his magic does whatever it is needed to do. Similarly artifacts with magical power either serve as get-out-of-jail-free cards in the form of helpful gadgets that glow when enemies are nearby or plot engines in the form of evil corrupting gems. And except for the Ring we never find out how or why they do what they do. It is a giant, in Gandalf's a somewhat literal deus ex machina and that's, for all intents and purposes, lazy writing. Same goes for Earthsea in places, but to a lesser extent. It's much more engaging if everyone has magic, but there are concrete rules to it. Also keep in mind the definition of hard magic systems here: it's not about what it can do, but what it can't do. And finally I have to admit that I never finished the Inheritance cycle proper because halfway through the last book I was kind of thrust into my dream job, had other worries for a time and then kind of forgot about it, but for all I remember really everyone can learn magic if they practice the Ancient Language long enough, but it's not just about speaking it, you also need to understand it. You basically can't just repeat words you heard a magic user say to do the same thing. Dragon Riders have a distinct advantage in this because their mind is linked to incredibly wise beings that mostly already speak the Ancient Language. Also keep in mind how many people actually get to earn the Ancient Language in an age where messages travel by horseback and most people can't evened the language they're speaking. Dragon magic and the mindbreakers as far as I understood are race specific things and only a very specific type of innate magic that can't do a whole lot but is more reliable (also a nice sprinkle of soft magic that you said you liked so much above) and Elves are said to have the most talent for magic because it's a constant part of their culture and people with a knack for it are actively searched for. Nobody knows how many human peasants somewhere in the countryside might have a talent for the Ancient Language if they only got the chance to learn it.

Yeah...this really bothered me. It leads me to believe that James never read the books but just watched the films. The magic system is far more consistent in the books.

@@wanderinghistorian In general the magic is way cooler in the books where different spells produce very distinct visual effects, so you can sometimes already guess a spell before it even hits, instead of the nondescript white flashes in the movies.

@@PhileasLiebmann Hehe as far as my understanding of HP goes all 'wandless magic' is extremely difficult and imprecise when done consciously (wands are apparently tools for focusing and channeling the innate magic, the wandlore itself is incredibly complex the wands are almost semi aware objects, they learn from a wizard so to speak and he learns from them as Olivander put it), while the magic of underage wizards is a kind of 'wandless magic' category manifesting wildly is just as you said instinctual, but it's not really a specific spell being used silently (though effects done in that instinctual use may be replicated by conscious effort and using the right spell, as far as I recall, Harry's feats before his Hogwarts days is regrowing his hair when Petunia cut it, and a single spells can do the same, making a glass window disappear so the snake got released, so something that is done through vanishing spell that was quite difficult to learn to use on purpose, etc.). Magic is always a plot device whether it has clear cut system or not :), when fully categorized and described in a system of abilities it simply becomes a tool to use in proper way. but a tool to use by characters in story to solve their problems IS a plot device. With Gandalf actually there are some limitations, some he states himself and some that come from more of the rules set on him and condition of his form, there are also some rules that I would not call rules of magic but rather rules of metaphysics of Tolkien's universe that are inescapable. Over the course of story we see what Gandalf is capable of and he does things that are useful and those things are pretty consistent (in other words he doesn't just suddenly do things that he wasn't shown being capable of before once his usual magic displays are introduced, even going from The Hobbit to Lotr, as Gandalf the White he becomes somewhat stronger, enhanced so his powers are greater and he is more open with it's use, it is even stated that some magical things are more of his expertise especially 'fire magics'), and it seems that use of his powers makes him weary over time, the appropriate use of power can be viewed as one of the themes of story. We see how his powers range in control over natural forces, fire, light, smoke, water, explosive flashes that tear down physical objects including the solid stone structures :), or instantly killing lightning flashes, telekinesis and mental powers, he clearly also tells that some of his spells have specific limitations (like shutting spell on the door) or that certain magical 'techniques' are more powerful than others like the Word of Command (that one which 'proved too great a strain' that the stone door blasted into pieces, it seems to be something akin to last resort for Gandalf). Artifacts you mention are a different thing entirely, they were designed that way (the Elves say that things they do contain the 'thoughts of things they love', their properties are something intended by the maker of an object), the glowing swords for instance are lost art (most likely, swords of the Elder Days as we're told that were specifically made to combat Orcs), the Silmarils (which I think what you're taking about 'evil corrupting gems') are not exactly a normal artifact but vessels for pure power of the divine light stored in them, as for the questions 'how or why they do what they do' I actually don't think that any magic system actually fully can explain that, there may be spells, techniques doing specific things, but still it's magic we are supposed to accept that it happens this way because some energy, power makes it so :). The Phial of Galadriel that Frodo got and helped him significantly does the thing it does because it contains that same holy light that the Silmaril had and it serves in the same capacity, enhances and strengthens the one keeping it, allows to combat 'dark power' and as a light it lights the way :), but it's something more than magical flashlight. Tolkien letter on the topic of magic: "I am afraid I have been far too casual about 'magic' and especially the use of the word; though Galadriel and others show by the criticism of the 'mortal' use of the word, that the thought about it is not altogether casual. But it is a v. large question, and difficult; and a story which . . . is largely about motives(choice, temptations etc.) and the intentions for using whatever is found in the world, could hardly be burdened with a pseudo-philosophic disquisition! I do not intend to involve myself in any debate whether 'magic' in any sense is real or really possible in the world. But I suppose that, for the purposes of the tale, some would say that there is a latent distinction such as once was called the distinction between magia and goeteia.1 Galadriel speaks of the 'deceits of the Enemy'. Well enough, but magia could be, was, held good (per se), and goeteia bad. Neither is, in this tale, good or bad (per se), but only by motive or purpose or use. Both sides use both, but with different motives. The supremely bad motive is (for this tale, since it is specially about it) domination of other 'free' wills. The Enemy's operations are by no means all goetic deceits, but 'magic' that produces real effects in the physical world. But his magia he uses to bulldoze both people and things, and his goeteia to terrify and subjugate. Their magia the Elves and Gandalf use (sparingly): a magia, producing real results (like fire in a wet faggot) for specific beneficent purposes. Their goetic effects are entirely artistic and not intended to deceive: they never deceive Elves (but may deceive or bewilder unaware Men) since the difference is to them as clear as the difference to us between fiction, painting, and sculpture, and 'life'. Both sides live mainly by 'ordinary' means. The Enemy, or those who have become like him, go in for 'machinery' - with destructive and evil effects - because 'magicians', who have become chiefly concerned to use magia for their own power, would do so (do do so). The basic motive for magia - quite apart from any philosophic consideration of how it would work - is immediacy: speed, reduction of labour, and reduction also to a minimum (or vanishing point) of the gap between the idea or desire and the result or effect. But the magia may not be easy to come by, and at any rate if you have command of abundant slave-labour or machinery (often only the same thing concealed), it may be as quick or quick enough to push mountains over, wreck forests, or build pyramids by such means." ... "Both of these (alone or together) will lead to the desire for Power, for making the will more quickly effective, - and so to the Machine (or Magic). By the last I intend all use of external plans or devices (apparatus) instead of development of the inherent inner powers or talents - or even the use of these talents with the corrupted motive of dominating: bulldozing the real world, or coercing other wills. The Machine is our more obvious modern form though more closely related to Magic than is usually recognised. I have not used 'magic' consistently, and indeed the Elven-queen Galadriel is obliged to remonstrate with the Hobbits on their confused use of the word both for the devices and operations of the Enemy, and for those of the Elves. I have not, because there is not a word for the latter (since all human stories have suffered the same confusion). But the Elves are there (in my tales) to demonstrate the difference. Their 'magic' is Art, delivered from many of its human limitations: more quick, more complete (product, and vision in unflawed correspondence). And its object is Art not Power, sub-creation not domination and tyrannous reforming of Creation. " And piece of narrative: "For this is what your folk would call magic. I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy" As for Inheritance I remember that it is clear people need to be born with ability, and the Alagaesia elves are the most innately magical race (due to various reasons), dragons are also innately magical creatures and only those few of various races born with the ability can use it (and this ability to manipulate energy, magic varies greatly between individuals), there is also stated that most magicians that have little talent to begin with supplement their abilities with use of elixirs, objects, and plants that are magical in and of themselves (like witches and wizards), there are also sorcerers, and the sorcery is an art to use naturally magical 'energy beings' the spirits to bend them to their will and this way have wider range of abilities than other magic users (this kind of reminds of the Witcher in a way, as there are beings in witcher world called commonly 'genies' that are natural source of magical energies and those mages who enslave them can draw energy from them :)). So learning the Ancient Language without innate natural ability to manipulate magic is useless without the talent (of course Ancient Language is somewhat magical on it's own, you can't lie in it and it contains true names for everything that a real magician can use to command the thing it names). And this is what is what Eldest (second book in series) says: "“Also,” said Oromis, “you must keep in mind that the ability to use magic is exceedingly rare among the races. We elves are no exception, although we have a greater allotment of spellweavers than most, as a result of oaths we bound ourselves with centuries ago. The majority of those blessed with magic have little or no appreciable talent; they struggle to heal even so much as a bruise.”

Precisely, and what he seems to overlook is that force is relevant to the strength of the user. The stronger you are with certain abilities, the more force you can generate. The more generated force, the more effect one has with pushing and pulling in accordance to natural physics. Kelsior was barely half as powerful as Vin at full strength, who was in turn significantly weaker than Elend after the first encounter with Ruin, as Ierasium beads were what provided power to the Lord Ruler and Ruin themselves.

@@Unlitedsoul Yes, but then it doesn't matter if something is heavier or not does it?

@@alkohnest It does if that object is heavier than the amount of force you are able to create. Also, the more force you use... the more of the metal you burn. So, that plays a huge factor as well.

@@alkohnest People are trying to explain Mistborn push strength all wrong. The book is not inconsistent... but it takes a little knowledge in physics for people to understand. So here is the explanation... First let's remember that Force is Mass times Acceleration, and that every action has a equal and oposite reaction. Lets say there's 2 Coinshots, both weighting 70 kg, and both can push with a force of 1000 Newtons. If both push each other, both will accelerate backwards at 28.6 m/s². Now if one of them weighs 120 kg, and both still push with the same force, the heavier one will only be pushed back at 16.7 m/s², while the lighter one will still be pushed back at 28.6 m/s². Now let's double the strength of the lighter one to 2000 N. If they both push each other, the heavier one will be pushed back with 25 m/s², and the lighter one 43 m/s². Doesn't matter how strong the lighter pushes... he's always gonna lose to the heavier one, because if he pushes the heavier one with 2000 Newtons... he will be pushed back with 2000 N as well, because every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Now this is all without considering other forces at play, like, gravity, friction and momentum. Friction and momentum also incrises with mass. So depending on the amount of force you push someone heavier then you, you might not even be able to move them, while you yourself will be flung backwards. That's why steelpush is the coolest ability of the books, and why I'm enjoying Mistborn Era 2 so much. Because so far it has never broken smart boy Newton's Laws.

😪 yall say anything when there are inconsistencies. Just like Christians. Y'all are biased fanboys. Lololz

Who the hell hates on inheritance

@@thepestilence7939 a lot of people hate on the fact it is heavily inspired by Star Wars. Which is sorta true but it was also based off of the Heroes Journey, which is an actual storytelling device. But it was written by a 15yr old and became a bestseller and my all time favorite series.

@@soulpsychic2858 the similarities go a bit beyond being based on the hero's journey in book 1...

I hate that they created this awesome magic system with this really cool language to control it but no matter how many times I say "make the movie good", it never works.

@@Vexas345 you sir, fuckin got me with this one

He copied the magic system from Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea series.

The magic system is easily the best thing about the Inheritance Cycle. The setting and plot are uber-vanilla and the titular character is boring as fuck. I did enjoy these books a lot as a kid though. Honestly I sometimes go back just to reread the bits in Eldest that are from his brother's perspective. He is a far more interesting character

Not everyone can do magic in Eragon.

@Salivar Ravilas Yeah, that real nigga wasnt pinning for some elfish anime waifu. He had a real wife and shit

@Salivar Ravilas Possibly. I will meditate on this.

'much more cerebral fights' lol

This. Hunter X Hunter has the best system from anything. I also have a schizo theory that its actually real. The Russian Special Forces use a martial art called 'systema' which teaches its practitioners how to remake brain maps to perform near super human feats. It also teaches precog, intent, and aura. Its taught to the Russian Spetznas so it cant be bullshit. Its the only chi/ki type system that is real. Its much more applicable in fights to the death and reminds me alot of what the samurai miyomoto musashi says in his book, 'the book of the 5 rings' who supposedly fought in hundreds of duels to the death. The things systema teaches are the basics of nen, even the training methods biscuit uses on gon and killua are the same ones taught by systema. Nen would only work for people that frequently fight with death on the line, like the Russian special forces. I got friends in the US special forces that when I asked about 'etheric aura control' he put his finger to his mouth and said 'shhhh', then later told me once he got a lil drunk that very few people in the world know about it, thats all he would tell me. The entire martial art is about controlling the enemies flow (kinda like what meruem says about board games...). Hunter x Hunter is also the only show that understands what matters in fights to the death, strength don't matter, powers don't matter, speed don't matter, all that matters is who hesitates first. I was taught this in officer training schools in the army. They would put us through simulations where you are the commander of a platoon, you send a squad to clear a room in a building or something, and the counselers would say 'the whole squad just got blown up by an ied, and a heavy machine gunner just popped out that window down the street and is shooting at you and the rest of squads, ready go', then they would grade you on how you reacted. The number 1 thing they awarded points for were commanders that showed no hesitation, just completely put the 'deaths' in the back of their mind and calmly continued the mission. Morel says it better than the best teachers that I had when he is fighting the royal guards. He crystallized exactly what they were trying to teach us in officer school. Its insane how accurate hunter x hunter is about that kinda stuff. Another example is the plan biscuit, gon, and killua use to fight genthru and the gang. The absurdity of it was exactly what they were training us for, what do you do when a giant hole in theground appears and a boulder starts dropping on your head, go (maybe not that extreme) but honestly pretty close to it, they would teach us to make contingency plans for literally everything imaginable, like what if the vehicle your driving in gets a flat tire or in a car accident in the middle of the mission, what if it starts raining, what if a the enemy shoots down your helicopter mid mission, the whole point is to teach that war is absurd as fuck, you gotta be ready to react to everything because if you hesitate you die, and hunter x hunter is the only form of media Ive ever watched seen or heard that shows this. I think it is the next logical level after the martial art systema, forming auras and hatsu and getting a category with water divination etc. Also notice how every single hunter was a unique individual that wore unique clothes, that grew up in the wild or in some insane environment, none of the hunters were people that went to public school or watched tv or did anything normal. Why wouldn't those types of people exist in real life. I think the personality test that hisoka uses is much like the social-sexual heirarchy popularized by a systema practitioner by the name of Vox Day(hes not known to be systema trained but he mentions it in one of his live streams). Basically he says with men there are more than just alpha and beta when it comes to the social-sexual heirarchy between groups of men. There are Alpha(Enhancement), Bravo(Emitter), Omegas(Manipulators), Deltas(Conjurers), Gammas(Transmuters), Sigmas(Specialists). The similarities are almost identical to what Hisoka says about it. I think we cant venture into space for the same reason humanity cant venture onto the dark continent. I think chrollo lucifer says 'humans are so interesting' about hisoka because chrollo is not human, he represents the fallen angel lucifer morningstar from biblical fame, he even makes a cryptic statement during the york new arc that imo is directed at the audience to break the 4th wall, like togashi is flexing at us. I even found an old japanese fan website from like 2004 that shows questions asked to Togashi in an interview, the question is something like 'How did you come up with the nen battle system?' Togashi answers with, "I just made it as realistic as possible" or something like that. Hunter x hunter is the universal conspiracy theory hidden in plain site, rewatch it as if it is real and its how the top tier humans of our world operate. I know this sounds schizo crazy but were talking about the top 10,000 humans on the planet. 10,000 out of 7-8 billion... Seems at least feasible imo. I wrote a blog post that lists a bunch of sources that prove etheric aura is real. I can send you the link if you want.

@@johnsaxondale21 PLEASE SEND ME A LINK....I AM REALLY INTERESTED

spellsoftruth.blog/2019/12/16/nen-is-real-part-1-intro-to-magic-miracles-super-powers-and-nen/ Im not the best writer, my profession is computer programming, and I still don't think I represented my points well enough but all well. Im still working on part 2 and the author of the russian martial book described within asked to interview me about what Ive figured out. We had scheduling conflicts at the last second the last 2 times we tried setting up for it, hopefully the third time is the charm. I can send you a link to the interview if we ever get around to it if you want.

Nen is amazing but i still say the powers from mistborn are better. They are integral to the world itself down to the fundamental building blocks of its universe. Nen is limitless as a power but for me that just isnt as cool

Nice! It's also my favourite anime. Jojo's stands come close but I have to admit that the battles in Jojo are better.

@@nzbg1132 nen is better cos is more defined

@@alguienrandom7398 Yeah I said that stands come close. And more defined doesn't always mean better. For instance the stands have more creative powers.

world trigger got better power system

@@jackal25301 lol nah

The first 2 books were awesome, sadly though the author seems to move at G.R.R.M. speeds for the 3rd. I could see that series being considered one of the best once it's done, hell it already is near that

@@gups4963 IMHO In both cases it's a bad case of writer's vertigo. So many people have such high expectations for the resolution to the series that poor old Pat is probably afraid of the fall .. from grace. Oh and having it pointed out that your main character is basically a Marty Stue has gotta sting.. So I guess he is waiting for the 'right' idea to appear. Either way I agree with Planetfall in that they are both great systems and beautifully realised.

Just finished the first book of that series, and was basically blown away. One of the more interesting magic systems I've read so far. IMO it ranks up there with LE Modesitt Jr's Chaos/Order magic system (which is based on particle physics), Mistborn (burning metals to obtain a magical chemical reaction), and Wheel of Time (using a well source of power to manipulate elements).

@@Unlitedsoul I strongly disagree with putting all of these titles on the same level. While I like the Wheel of Time as a whole, the magic system is anime-level bullshit. Sympathey actually tries to comply with the laws of thermodynamics. Not hating on the WoT. But Sympathey actually tries to comply with the laws of thermodynamics. And it's not doing it at the cost of the fantasy atmosphere. And it's accessible to anyone, not just special plot-important people. Edit: I'm not sure why I decided to unload this on you. Sorry..

@@Quotheraving While I agree with your first point, I think it's possible Kvothe being a Mary Sue might be the point. As we know the book is a tradgedy (when you compair the 'present time' to the story itself), so the book is kinda about how despite how powerful he is, we know it all goes wrong

Thats what I was thinking number 1 was going to be

Brent Weeks is just a bomb writer honestly. His Nightangel Trilogy is still one of my faves, if not my actual favorite book series.

This reminds me of Green Lantern. Gotta check it out

Plus if you draft to much over the course of your life you basically become insane

TheBlueDevilState this is what I came here to say. I like the list, but there’s a reason Mistborn is so high on my list of all time favorites! The magic system is nigh untouchable, and extremely unique.

The inconsistency in Wheel of Time was also explained in the books

Allomancy, once achieved, essentially becomes a hereditary trait that can wane and wax with time. Like many other traits it gets diluted when mixed with the genes of someone who doesn't have it. Eventually you end up with very weak mistborns and people for whom the trait has become so diluted they can only access a tiny portion of the power at all.

It was good because it was simple. atla gave us a very strict bending system where your power was based on mostly skill/practice, and some instances of natural talent, with some examples of external influence like the full moon or sozin's comet. but no matter what, you could only ever bend the element you were born with, avatar notwithstanding. instances of sub-elements were originally just clever applications of normal bending, unlike, say, lavabending in lok, which just seems to be something random earthbenders can do. but yeah, I agree, avatar really is up there for me, but stuff like HxH nen or the magic in the dresden files do rank a bit higher for me

The real value for Avatar's magic system is that it informs EVERYTHING ELSE about the setting

Annabeth is possibly the most badass character in the Percy Jackson series and her only power is being the smartest person in the room.

Shirou from Fate/stay night is a great example of such kind of character.

Herbert certainly wouldn't. His story was a deconstruction of archetypes, a philosophical discourse on Messiahs, religion and human potential, a reflection on self interest vs interests of the species as a whole and oh so much more. I doubt he'd change his "magic" for more, since it was only there to act as a catalyst for a story about humanity.

⁠@@GabrielHellborneHerbert would if he wasnt dead. Also, I need a place to vent that it’s /melaṇge/.

I agree with you about Erikson's books but I noticed that series is hard for some folks to get into. I think bc the first book is long and doesn't explain what's going on. I rec getting it on audible bc it's easier that way. Ppl nowadays have no patience. They want a fast payoff like YA fiction

@@scarlet8078 Well it is not unreasonable tho to not want to get into that I mean have you ever tried describing the wordbuilding or let alone the plot to someone? ^^

@@scarlet8078 I gave it a fair try, but it was just so poorly structured, all the characters are unlikable, and the story is so fucking all over the place. I value a good plot structure and I despise a poor one. Sure, worldbuilding is neat, even though you have to invest the half of it yourself, but it's just not worth it in the end for me.

@@scarlet8078 I mean yeah, we want stuff to happen, not just 500 pages of just walking, explaining basic rules of the series and re-reading tons of stuff because someone might've forgotten something! Erikson seems to don't give a fuck about this... I understand that some authors expect patience and the reader to think on his own, but it's just weird to throw us into a continent without explaining anything and after you think you understood the rules, Erikson does this again in book.2! I'm reading to enjoy stuff, not too re-read ten ages again to "get" something... as an author and creator of a world, it's your job to explain trough the story and pretty early on where we are and who the characters from a specific room, for example, are, what the world's rules is, and what kind of conflict and magic rules there are present!

Planetfall vin also has a spike. Her earring

@@tonyoliver4920 Yes, that was a hemalurgic spike which granted her extra bronze, that's why here bronze sight was unusually strong. It did not effect her other powers though.

Planetfall I knew it was only one power but couldn't remember what

IMO there are two factors for determining the value of a magic system, how well it fits in the world and how clear the rules are. For example, I would consider the Harry Potter magic system is pretty terrible, because elements are regularly dropped or leave massive plotholes in their wake, and the system is so loose that we have very few defined rules to establish limits for characters. We only really know of a few specific rules of transfiguration, time travel and no rezzing the dead can happen outside of the Hallows, which have a vague enough backstory that we don't even really know if they have a supernatural origin or were just created by the brothers. By contrast, the Avatar System is great because it both fits well in the world by defining relationships and the mindsets of characters, and it has rules that are mostly clear but show evolution as the world does. My personal favorite is the Nasuverse or Fate system of magic, as it clearly sets the tone for the world it is in, and is so comprehensive with a clear vocabulary that it can be the basis of analyzing other magic systems.

The Templin Institute has a very good video that categorize magic systems into 6 or 9 types based on how the magic works in relation to the rest of the (fictional) world and other things

The Eragon series possesses both hard and soft magic systems. James didn't really do the greatest job of explaining it, but essentially magic was entirely free, and could be tapped into by anyone by just thinking about it. This made it dangerous to use because of how easy it is for stray thoughts to interfere with the process of casting a spell, and eventually an extinction-level event through it's misuse forced the ancient peoples of the world to bind all wild magic to their language and gave it special properties to ensure it could be used safely. The Ancient Language is basically just a conduit for magic, similar to wands in Harry Potter. A way to focus it so the magic does what you actually want it to do. At the same time, there's many instances in the series of magic being used in ways that aren't congruent with the language. For example, dragons posses many aspects that are dependent on magic to function, from breathing fire, to flying despite their immense bulk, to their Eldunari, a special organ that if exgorged forms a permanent link with the dragon's consciousness, and will house it upon the dragon's bodily death. There is also inexplicable though obviously magical phenomena in the series, and despite some characters offering an explanation, it is usually summed up to the people's inhabiting the Eragon universe not fully understanding everything about magic.

I think that the Inheritance Cycle fits perfectly with it’s magic system, which makes sense in every way. One of the reasons I like it, is because a character, Carn, while weak with magic, is inventive and able to use less energy to perform tasks that would kill him. When he wants to set a room on fire, he spreads flower dust through the air to be ignited by a torch instead of just lighting the whole place on fire.

Thank you! I was thinking the same but it has been too long since I read it for me to act like I was sure

Burring out and being severed are identical in their effects, and both can he healed. This is stated and shown quite clearly. The only difference is that burning out is the result of over-use, severing is an attack. Healing severing isn't a remover of tension because almost without exception, the connection withe the Source is weaker after the healing.

LadyDeirdre isn’t burning out running out of the power? Isn’t severing an attack that doesn’t completely cut one off it merely makes it impossible to channel they still have the one power as shown by the ability to still use the a’dam

@@olorinmagus4479 You're misremembering. The One Power is inexhaustible, but channellers can overload their power handling capability, or have the same thing done to them by deliberately action. It's the difference between falling off a cliff and getting pushed.

LadyDeirdre I misspoke but the point remains the same with the burning it’s like overloading a resistor severing is more like removing the resistor so are the healers able to heal both or just the severing

And....?

Yeah maybe I'm just old compared to the crowd here, but I distinctly remember reading Eragon and thinking "oh come on did you just rip off Earthsea wholesale?" And I wasn't even a fan of that series, I read only the first years before. It was the point I think where I wrote the whole thing off as derivative indulgence. I kinda enjoyed it the first time through, but when I reread it some time later I got angrier and angrier. Props to Paolini for publishing at fifteen, but don't try to tell me it was good :P

Thank you

@@MrRobot-0 Ursula k le Guin never got enough recognition for her works, specially because she had to fight to be able to have poc characters on her stories also her magic system has its own philosophy that makes it really special but other authors just copied it without respecting it It's actually quite upsetting tbh

@@clicky4665 ok, this realy dont take the strong point of said magic sistem and how it was integrated on the story, saing that someone did it before isnt a insult to in itself an ppl ho do so come up as salty to the uninvested on the drama.

This. Hunter X Hunter has the best system from anything. I also have a schizo theory that its actually real. The Russian Special Forces use a martial art called 'systema' which teaches its practitioners how to remake brain maps to perform near super human feats. It also teaches precog, intent, and aura. Its taught to the Russian Spetznas so it cant be bullshit. Its the only chi/ki type system that is real. Its much more applicable in fights to the death and reminds me alot of what the samurai miyomoto musashi says in his book, 'the book of the 5 rings' who supposedly fought in hundreds of duels to the death. The things systema teaches are the basics of nen, even the training methods biscuit uses on gon and killua are the same ones taught by systema. Nen would only work for people that frequently fight with death on the line, like the Russian special forces. I got friends in the US special forces that when I asked about 'etheric aura control' he put his finger to his mouth and said 'shhhh', then later told me once he got a lil drunk that very few people in the world know about it, thats all he would tell me. The entire martial art is about controlling the enemies flow (kinda like what meruem says about board games...). Hunter x Hunter is also the only show that understands what matters in fights to the death, strength don't matter, powers don't matter, speed don't matter, all that matters is who hesitates first. I was taught this in officer training schools in the army. They would put us through simulations where you are the commander of a platoon, you send a squad to clear a room in a building or something, and the counselers would say 'the whole squad just got blown up by an ied, and a heavy machine gunner just popped out that window down the street and is shooting at you and the rest of squads, ready go', then they would grade you on how you reacted. The number 1 thing they awarded points for were commanders that showed no hesitation, just completely put the 'deaths' in the back of their mind and calmly continued the mission. Morel says it better than the best teachers that I had when he is fighting the royal guards. He crystallized exactly what they were trying to teach us in officer school. Its insane how accurate hunter x hunter is about that kinda stuff. Another example is the plan biscuit, gon, and killua use to fight genthru and the gang. The absurdity of it was exactly what they were training us for, what do you do when a giant hole in theground appears and a boulder starts dropping on your head, go (maybe not that extreme) but honestly pretty close to it, they would teach us to make contingency plans for literally everything imaginable, like what if the vehicle your driving in gets a flat tire or in a car accident in the middle of the mission, what if it starts raining, what if a the enemy shoots down your helicopter mid mission, the whole point is to teach that war is absurd as fuck, you gotta be ready to react to everything because if you hesitate you die, and hunter x hunter is the only form of media Ive ever watched seen or heard that shows this. I think it is the next logical level after the martial art systema, forming auras and hatsu and getting a category with water divination etc. Also notice how every single hunter was a unique individual that wore unique clothes, that grew up in the wild or in some insane environment, none of the hunters were people that went to public school or watched tv or did anything normal. Why wouldn't those types of people exist in real life. I think the personality test that hisoka uses is much like the social-sexual heirarchy popularized by a systema practitioner by the name of Vox Day(hes not known to be systema trained but he mentions it in one of his live streams). Basically he says with men there are more than just alpha and beta when it comes to the social-sexual heirarchy between groups of men. There are Alpha(Enhancement), Bravo(Emitter), Omegas(Manipulators), Deltas(Conjurers), Gammas(Transmuters), Sigmas(Specialists). The similarities are almost identical to what Hisoka says about it. I think we cant venture into space for the same reason humanity cant venture onto the dark continent. I think chrollo lucifer says 'humans are so interesting' about hisoka because chrollo is not human, he represents the fallen angel lucifer morningstar from biblical fame, he even makes a cryptic statement during the york new arc that imo is directed at the audience to break the 4th wall, like togashi is flexing at us. I even found an old japanese fan website from like 2004 that shows questions asked to Togashi in an interview, the question is something like 'How did you come up with the nen battle system?' Togashi answers with, "I just made it as realistic as possible" or something like that. Hunter x hunter is the universal conspiracy theory hidden in plain site, rewatch it as if it is real and its how the top tier humans of our world operate. I know this sounds schizo crazy but were talking about the top 10,000 humans on the planet. 10,000 out of 7-8 billion... Seems at least feasible imo. I wrote a blog post that lists a bunch of sources that prove etheric aura is real. I can send you the link if you want.

@@SpellsOfTruth hmm...send the link

@@supermal112233 spellsoftruth.blog/aether/ I am currently working on a comprehensive breakdown of HunterXHunter going episode by episode and matching the similarities with real life. I also will show how to open your aura nodes, how to train yourself to use etheric aura well enough to take the water divination test. I already outlined most of it in the comment sections of kissanime hxh dub.

Found you.

@@SpellsOfTruth holy fucking shit. this is both autistic and insanely impressive.

Eragon used (stole) the magic system from Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea series.

@@recurrenTopology ah, that's a real shame then. Also, is your username a chumhandle?

Had to look up what a chumhandle was, but it looks like I made a user name which accidentally fits the description.

A neat coincidence, I suppose.

yeah the very best

I expected this one to be on the list, because it’s so freaking detailed and interesting

Isn't it a bit expensive and difficult to use? It's interesting but it is also very limited without having a lot of resources.

@@kenansabic2901 Not necessarily. Breath is just a somewhat finite resource but valuable, so that value tends to get hoarded since everyone is born with 1 Breath, which can be bought or given. You can expend Breath, but typically you can recover the breath you used, not through regenerating but essentially like shooting an arrow but then retrieving it; you animate an object, and take the breath you used to animate it back. It also provides a lot of perks just by possessing it passively, to the extent of achieving levels of divinity.

Agreed. The books are also amazing.

The Will and the Word is an excellent system. It's simple, it's imaginative, and it's mostly consistent (Garion raising the dead is a bit of a MacGuffin). Things like how throwing a huge rock, you better be on solid ground, or how things cannot simply be willed into existence or out of existence.

Well, things can be created _ex nihilo_ but it takes personal energy and they're never quite the same as the real thing.

Arakhor that’s true. I have to admit it’s been a long time since I read them.

I was thinking of this and you just said it too.

also, i'm pretty sure that anyone that was "burnt out" couldn't be healed, only those that had been "severed" or been cut off from the one power could be healed

Hm never thought about it like that. I just though that, those thing were never discovared/forgotten but that doesnt mean it couldnt have been done.

I dont think it is evolution, it is just that people didnt know how to make a weave of the precise pattern that was needed. For example, peniciline was always available to humans, they just didnt know they could just eat specific type of mould to treat infections. Other way round, there are materials to creat greek fire or roman concrete, so we can in theory, but we dont know how to combine the ingredients properly.

They simply learned new weaves.

@@waltgrisly509 Yet inside the span of a few months (book time) we have both a Female (Ninive Almera) and male (Damer Flinn) version that heals something that could not be healed before. If only one version of it existed, I might be able to agree but both a male and a female version were created completely independent of each other.

Eragon copied the magic system, ancient language, and "true name" from Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea series. It's fairly blatant plagiarism really.

@@recurrenTopology Hmm~ Ok, i will take alook at those then.

They are great. Written for young adults, but deep enough to be enjoyed at any age. Most of Ursula K. Le Guin's novels are adult sci-fi and are really worth checking out. In particular The Dispossessed, The Lathe of Heaven, and The Left Hand of Darkness stand out.

I also personally prefer magic systems where anyone can learn it, such as in the Bartimaeus Series (actually a plot point, as magicians keep the details of magic vague to the public to prevent commoners from finding out that literally anyone can do it with the right equipment and knowledge), Hunter x Hunter (not a book series, but still including it; anyone can train in it [with varying levels of effort needed to unlock it], though its existence is kept secret since it can easily be made into a deadly weapon; this is primarily to justify its absence in the first season/arc), etc. (I'm sad I couldn't think of more examples right off the top of my head, though I don't have my bookshelf in front of me) Then there are half examples, like Codex Alera ("you must be born with it", though every human is, so it only comes up with the Main Character [who is a "freak", due to unfortunate circumstance] and any intelligent nonhumans [which have other types of magic]) and Stormlight Archive (which I see on the shelf behind you).

Yeah I'm pretty your right

Really? I must have missed that, where is it found out it can't?

Setalle Anan

@@MDP1702 Setalle Anan doesn't feel anything when she puts on the Adam and later somebody looks into it (I forget if it was Nynaeve or somebody else) and she says it's different: with a severed person it feels like a connection has been cut and they can be healed by bridging the connection while with the burnt out person there's nothing there to heal or connect back together, it's gone completely.

What inoncistencies sre you refering to? I can't come up with any.

Kenan Šabić Killua's father, grandfather, older brother, younger brother, and possibly his mother (not counting his younger sister, since that power is something else entirely) can all use Nen, but for some reason he was completely clueless to its existence. Hisoka somehow turned a guy's arms into flowers before the power system was revealed (and probably before it was made), and while I can potentially see a way his powers could have done that, it is a stretch. Actually the hunter exam arc in general. Some things don't add up with Nen and all pro Hunters needing to learn it, but I chalk it all up to it being thought up after that stuff happened.

@@thatnerdygaywerewolf9559 Oh yeah. Those. The whole part where Nen is hidden from the public is a bit hard to believe. How does the Hunter association prevent some random member from going rogue and revealing its secrets, the hunter association is basically a billionaire's club with no actual control over the members. Also someone outside the association could reveal nen to everyone.

Kenan Šabić Yeah, I guess those are also issues. Though I was thinking more along the lines of every time Hisoka challenged a pro Hunter in the exam arc, especially the one that lead to an actual fight. Two supposed Nen users, and the hunter bragged about his special spinning boomerang knife throwing skills, and talked about how long he spent perfecting it (and was surprised when Hisoka caught them). It was cool and all, and I love everything about the exam arc, but it makes it hard to believe that knowing Nen is the true determining mark of a pro Hunter like later arcs will tell you. Also the Chairman thinking about relaxing his stomach muscles so Gon wouldn't break his head on them, as if the Chairman wasn't just using Ten to harden his body. Granted, the Chairman did have a thought along the lines of "if I was a normal human...", but still. When Nen did come into the picture, it was kind of jarring, as everything unrelated to it that came before (body modification and other assassin techniques, special skills like chemical warfare, etc) fell by the wayside. At least for a while, and Nen does add quite a lot, even if it took away some to do it.

@@thatnerdygaywerewolf9559 The part when Hisoka turned that guy's arms into flowers is anime original and not cannon

Now these sound good. Thanks for the recommendations

Yes. Master of he Five Magics was an incredible magic system or five systems. I also like the Jack Vance Dying Earth series and its magic system, and the magic in the Earthsea series by Ursula K. Le Guin.

Even more with the sequels, which introduce a kind of metamagic concept. Of the ones I named that series has what are probably the "hardest" rules for magic. Pelman's powershaping is much more freeform, somewhat like the Begariad's primary magic, and the riddlemaster system is just...odd. Worth a read IMO, but odd. Vancian magic is, of course, the root inspiration for the "cast and forget" spells in Dungeons & Dragons, although the most powerful spellcasters generally forgo memorized spells in favor of what are basically indentured wish-granting genie-things. Earthsea's magic system and general tone have some similarities to the Riddlemaster books, which may be why I like them.

I love the Riddlemaster Trilogy, one of my favorites.

I haven't read any Jim Butcher, so I can't say.

@@JamesTullos Highly recommended. Codex Alera consists of 6 novels. Dresden Files has 15 out of 20 novels written (book #16 is on its way).

Butcher is a fun read. The Codex Alera series also has a roman setting which isn't seen too often in Fantasy fiction. He also has a newish Steampunk series titled The Cinder Spires that might interest you. For all the popularity that Steampunk gets it has a real dearth of quality fiction so it's nice to see Butcher making a good(not great) contribution. The Codex Alera is a complete series, so that would be a better starting point if you want to get into Butcher's work.

@@JamesTullosYou definitely need to read Dresden files, it's urban fantasy done right for once. The best way to sum up the series is Neo-noir wizard detective stories. Basically anything from myths and legends is fair game and is used to fun effect. It's the book series that got me back into reading.

Dresden Files also runs on Rule of Cool. Remember Sue?

Absolutely. Harry Potter is one of the worst magic systems of all time (in my opinion). It has almost no rules at all, and serves only as a plot device. It can do anything the characters need it to do at a given point in time, and cannot do anything the plot requires they not be able to do.

Whats more is that spells seem to be fairly arbitrarily "creatable", after all, septumsempra was created by snape. This would suggest that it is possible to create spells *fairly* easily, at least its not impossible. Yet, there doesn't seem to be a spell for fairly basic things. Also the way spells function makes it seem like the entire wizarding world is a bunch of script kiddies just executing commands in the shell. The system of inheritance as well as many others do a way better job as you cant just flick your wrist and say a word or two, you have to precisely specify what you want

Have you guys thought of the fact that a children’s fantasy series might have been written to be fun for kids rather than to please a bunch of nit picky adult-children on the internet? It set out to give a whimsical yet mysterious tone as a backdrop to an Enid Blyton-esque school/mystery story for children. And it succeeded in that amazingly. You’re judging it against what you want it to be rather than what it’s meant to be

@@alexemy7703 I agree that Harry Potter is great but this is a comment section of a video about good magic systems, not about good stories. They are enjoyable books but it's a shitty magic system.

@@Smittel Agreed, the Harry Potter system is super weak and what can be done vs what cannot be done is frustratingly vague. We don't even have much of a measurement for how much a given spell takes or how to rank relative ability. We know that some spells such as the Patronus are difficult to perform, but is it because of the conjuring a strong enough emotion, or does it take a great deal of magical energy? How many lumos spells equals the power of a killing curse? What makes seven a significant magical number as opposed to five or eleven? To what degree are wands sentient and why? Is there a reason some people are predisposed to certain kinds of magic? There are a ton of questions that can flesh out the world, but remain unanswered or the answers make things far less interesting. According to Pottermore all magic in the world comes from the UK tradition. That means that in countries with long histories of magic and myth like India, China, Japan, and the native practices of the pre-colonial Americas didn't have functioning magical systems of their own, and I have no idea why this would be the case as all it does is make the world smaller and much less interesting. All in all 8/10 for story 1/10 for the magic system and non-UK worldbuilding.

maybe because it was mandatory reading that started the hate? i used to hate the Giver until i read it again as an adult. damn mandatory reading.

I think it gets a bad reviews simply because it is not too good of a fantasy story? Inconsistent, deus ex machina all over the place, lots of wtf moments (Roran killing over two hundred soldiers with a hammer, golden crown two feet high on a head etc., it steals a lot from other books and stories, including the magic system? I mean I liked it, when I was 12, but since then I have read so many other things, that were so much better. For a lot of people it was the gate to the fantasy genre (along with the HP series), so thats why its praised, but apart from that?

@@Michael-ez6ix Are you saying that consistency, absolute adherence to Chekhov's Gun and a permanent tonal constancy are staples of the Fantasy genre? And where exactly does Inheritance steal from? Lord of the Rings? The book people have been stealing from since it hit the shelves in 1954? Also please name one fantasy novel from 2001 that was more memorable than Eragon.

The difference is that LotR is made up of three good books, while the Eragon is three bad books. The kid should have taken the time to make it good, and shouldn't be praised for rushing out a crap story.

Nobody complaining except Bilbo

Yeah, especially with Avada Kedavra. Avada Kedavra existing is very flawed. It should have a huge cost on the caster’s energy or just not exist in the first place. Why would the bad guys use anything other than the Killing Curse? Most of them can use it. Lord Voldemort would be even more terrifying, because of his horcruxes, he would probably be much harder to tire and could cast the spell much more.

So what happens when a nation conquer's/annexes another nation, do they suddenly lose their magic and can now only do the conquerer's magic? What if a 100 years later there is a rebellion and a province becomes independent, do they suddenly lose their magic and get a brand new one, or do they revert to the one that was extinct? It sounds like a really silly system.

Its about a connection to the land. If you deep inside you view yourself as "fron this piece of land" you are cualified.

​@@glenbe4026 Explaining the magic system used in those books is kind of complicated, since is related to The Cosmere rules. Long story short, all magic in The Cosmere is tied to a being of great power that inhabits the planet. Elantris and The Emperor's Soul take place in Sel, and that planet is(was) inhabited by Devotion and Dominion (that's why the magic is tied to the users place of origin). "So what happens when a nation conquer's/annexes another nation, do they suddenly lose their magic and can now only do the conquerer's magic?" Depends on that person's identity. For instance, let say that Poland has it's own brand of magic. Then Germany invades and conquers Poland. A few decades pass and polish John and Jenny are born. John sees himself as polish, not as part of the german community, so he *can* use polish magic. But Jenny sees herself as german, not polish. She *can't* use polish magic. "do they revert to the one that was extinct?" Magic does not go extinct in The Cosmere, so long as the power to which it belongs survives. In Sel, the humans holding the powers of Devotion and Dominion are dead, but their powers are still intact, that's why magic still works.