Hey everyone! I appreciate everyone's discussions in the comments - I'm so grateful that you took the time to share your thoughts because I think it's important that we have these conversations. 💜Since this video, you've opened my eyes to different perspectives that give me a lot to think about. So thank you! That being said, please be mindful and respectful in the comments. We're all human and we may not see eye-to-eye, but that's okay! I'm continuing to moderate the comments to ensure it's a safe space to talk about our opinions. Please continue to be kind - Bash 💜
I come from an art, sewing, and crocheting background, but I really see no issue in selling an FO if the pattern maker doesn't explicitly tell you not to sell the FO. I understand that it takes a lot of time and creativity to make a pattern; I'm developing my first knitting pattern right now. The thing is, once you put your pattern out in the world, other people's FO's are no longer 'yours'. Granted, you gave them a canvas to work with, but someone else is putting their time and effort (and probably some amount of creativity) into that object. They have made it their own, with their own investment, and can choose what to do with it. It's no different than selling cookies made forma cookbook recipe at a bake sale, or a bag you made from a Simplicity sewing pattern. I think that if knit pattern makers don't want their knitters to sell their FO's, then they need to include it in the pattern, just like any other kind of sale that doesn't include commercial or manufacturing rights.
The designer of the pattern can’t restrict what you do with the FO. Just like an auto manufacturer can’t restrict how you use or sell or customize your car after buying it. Or an architect can’t prevent you from selling the house you built from their designs. Putting a completely invalid copyright footnote (especially when these pattern writers aren’t likely to be filing for real legal copyright) saying you can’t sell the FO means nothing. If you don’t want anyone to sell the finished items they made from your pattern, don’t write a pattern; make the item and sell it yourself.
@@CallMeAL1 It's true that no one can physically track down makers and force them not to do something. For most small creatives, it's entirely an honour system where you hope people won't be total jerks. Naïve, I know. I can only speak for the Us/England/and Canada here, but while it is good to have a legally registered copyright, these countries consider patterns to be an original creative work and are protected by the same laws that protect art and literature. Ie, you don't have to register your pattern, it's considered an original creative work and automatically considered 'copyrighted'. You generally do have to register them if you want to defend them in a court of law though, so good to look out for that if you're well and truly worried about mass manufacturing. For those worried about this in other countries, definitely check on your local laws.
The customer-bases for finished projects and patterns are totally different. People aren't cannibalizing sales from pattern designers by selling the things they make from those patterns. They're selling to a totally different set of customers that likely cannot make those things for themselves. Also, this is active income vs passive income. People selling finished objects are making more money up-front but they're limited by the time it takes to make the objects. Pattern makers are only limited by their ability to market and get eyes on the pattern; that one pattern can generate income for years. I don't consider selling FOs to be an ethical dilemma at all. Also, I think the reason you don't see finished knitting projects being sold is because knitting can be done by machine. Sellers would be competing against mass-manufactured items. Crocheting cannot be easily duplicated like this.
In regards to selling FOs that we make from purchased patterns……I see patterns as a tool. Just as yarn and needles are….so as chiaogoo has no say in what I do with my FOs, nor the does the designer. They provided a tool, which I paid for. The designer does not own my FO. No difference between crochet and knitting. The premise is exactly the same.
If a pattern says "you cannot sell FO's" that's not actually enforceable, at least in the US. Plenty of posts on reddit about this topic! There's a difference in commercial use - like hiring a team of knitters to produce a bunch of knitwear vs. you, a single human being running an etsy shop and doing commissions of finished objects of specific patterns. The former being.. a bit slimy, the second being completely acceptable to me.
If designers don’t want people selling their FOs then maybe they should just sell their own products rather than making it available as a pattern. My purchasing a pattern didn’t magically procure my yarn for the project, nor does it dictate what I’m allowed to do with my own labor. I think you should credit the designer for sure but idk if I bought the yarn, the pattern, and spent my own time making the thing, what I do with it afterwards is no one else’s concern
So as someone who sells- it’s transactional. You mentioned you wouldn’t really like if someone bought a pattern, made a project, and priced it high. Your return on the pattern can go beyond your lifespan in theory, making $5 on everyone who buys it. You’ve priced it at a certain price point with an expectation on selling x amount of patterns to “pay” you for your time. I purchase said pattern, paying what you ask (not you specifically but a designer). I then spend time to purchase yarn, and spend x amount of hours making a project (both knit and crochet) and sell the finished object according to those pricing guidelines for me. I am selling to people who wouldn’t take from your bottom line because they are not knitters or crocheters, I am selling to people who want to be involved with slow fashion and homemade quality vs big box stores- they don’t want to or can’t make it themselves, but they want to support those who do. So they support me, I support you, I support the yarn company or dyer, and I support my family as well. There’s not really an ethical issue or a dirty feeling there as designers put a price on their idea, I pay their price and use that idea as a base, and spend my time to create a finished object. Then again I also don’t mass produce anything. I have adhd and making more than 1 or 2 of something makes me want to crawl out of my skin… (which probably negates any icky feeling as well) I do put designer information on the tags that I include with purchases, (honestly some people will then seek out a designer if happy with that piece and request a second item from that designer- same idea as “I love this furniture, I’m going to purchase more from them” kind of idea, which will then put money back into the designers pocket with the purchase of a second pattern. I support more designers by selling some of my work because I have the ability to do something with the FO’s! Otherwise, I’d have a billion hats and shawls and sweaters and they’d be sitting here in a pile being unused and unloved and probably getting eaten by moths 🤷🏻♀️
I’m going to admit I’m a little touchy on this one- but I figured I would give some hard numbers here, and since a designer in specific was brought up about not liking someone selling their fo for $500…. I’ll bite- because I have one for sale, for $450. I’m not selling their pattern, I’m selling the shawl. I had intention of keeping it, but it wasn’t exactly what I had in mind for the occasion I was thinking of (as well as used more yarn, but slightly smaller dimension, and that’s on me and my gauge) but even if I hadn’t bought it with that intention and with the intention to sell- I want to share some solid numbers. I purchased the pattern for $8 (or whatever the conversion was but about that) The yarn was a 5 full skein gradient from a hand dyer that cost me $150. So I’m already $158 of actual cash invested. Then, I spent 3,145 total minutes knitting a total of 95,743 stitches. Over 52.5 hours on knitting!! Then, I washed it, and blocked it. More time (and if we get nitpicky wool wash). And it’s not quite what I want. So, I’m honestly curious as to what the designer expects there. I’ve put in literally $158, PLUS 52.5 hours into this. Am I supposed to rip it out? Why? It’s gorgeous. I just don’t want to wear it. If I rip it out because the fo wasn’t right- are they going to pay me back for my pattern that I purchased specifically for this FO that I no longer want? Am I going to send the yarn back to the dyer and get a refund “because it didn’t work out”? Nope. And if I asked said designer for my money back on the pattern because the FO didn’t work out and I’m not “allowed” to sell the item, I would get laughed out of this universe. So $450 price tag, -$8 (pattern), -150 (yarn) = $292 for my time, effort, and 15 ish years knitting experience. $292 divided by 52.5 hours of knitting- I’m “making” $5.56 an hour. That’s not even federal minimum wage. (And doesn’t account for website hosting I use, or anytime spent on admin stuff there) I’m not in the income bracket where I can be philanthropic and just give it away. That is for a way higher tax bracket. I’d love to understand what is then expected of this FO. Are they mad that they can’t then get a percentage of the sale? When I’m making $5.56 an hour? I’m not ever gonna mass produce these (52 hours man!) I may make a second, but probably not. If the designer would rather knit items to sell, at $500 a piece, instead of selling unlimited patterns for $8 a piece, they may do so, but don’t get mad at me because I am making $5.56 an hour. (Side note- if I had priced at $500, I would still be making less than minimum wage at $6.51 an hour…) Hopefully this can give some insight into a price tag that seems incredulous…
I don't see a problem with sharing a pattern. Mass re-distribution of a pattern is another thing. To clarify, sharing with a friend not like the whole knitting circle. To me its the same as sharing a book or a recipe.
So if there is a recipe and I take it and modify it and make food from that recipe, I can't sell the food? I am confused about the difference between selling crochet and knitting FO.
I think of the patterns more like recipes. Many chefs have recipes for same staple dishes, so I don't see why knit designers have their version of v neck cardigan. 😊
As a crocheter who is close with many knitters, I see it just as they do. You own the IP of the pattern but you do not own the rights to the FO. The FO was not made by or the yarn paid for by the designer therefore if the maker wants to sell it, they should be able to freely SO LONG AS CREDIT TO THE DESIGNER IS MADE. I fully believe in supporting designers and do not believe in sharing patterns, but if my friend who does not crochet asks me to make a crochet sweater for them and they do not crochet, I am entitled to compensation for hours if not days of skilled labor and materials. Nothing in this world is truly free.
In Finland there is a model of a hat to children which is called a helmet beanie, it´s basically a balaclava. Also people who work outside or go skiing etc have been wearing that sort of beanies that cover you head and neck like a balaclava - I suppose it is one, you might even cover your face so that also only your eyes can be seen. Also it used to be typical for old women wearing shawls over your head so that you can also cover your neck so it covers you very tightly because it´s so freezing here sometimes during the winter. I had never thought what you said about balaclavas but I do understand what you are saying about the safety of people.
The balaclava is only meant to be worn outside and doesn't usually cover the face. Most of the anti-hijab movements are not against covering of the hair, but about covering of the face. But most importantly, they just use hijab as an easy signifier that a woman is Muslim. So these people are not anti-hijab, they're anti-muslim which is much worse. In the Western countries women can wear whatever they want and that's the whole point. Cover your hair, don't cover your hair... whatever you want, as long as its YOUR choice. And maybe if more women/people wear balaclavas, we can normalise hair covering?
I agree about the test knitters. I design complex socks. I've had people sign up and not be able to get past the cuff, but I would never make them pay for the pattern - life happens. I don't ask my testers to do anything but knit 1 out of the 2 socks and fill out a form. I give 8 weeks for the test and the form is as detailed or as simple as they make it. It asks them what they would rate the pattern, and they can give a more detailed answer, how they would like the final pattern delivered to them and their gauge. I don't expect them to do anything else since they are essentially working for free. If they want to show off their finished pictures on social media or ravelry that is wonderful, but I can do my own marketing.
I think it’s ok to sell FOs if you don’t wear them/they don’t fit/etc. But more like a second hand item, not knitting it with the intention to sell. Though I’ve seen some knitting patterns saying making the pattern for small scale sale is allowed. Admittedly I’ve never sold anything I knit or crocheted, but I’ve donated a few things that don’t fit me but turned out well - so I figured why frog it if someone else could use it.
I still don't see why you should sell them as secondhand. When a baker sells a loaf of bread, are they selling it second hand because someone else came up with the recipe?
Balaclavas are not related to hijabs, in Scandinavia they are used and needed because of the extreme cold. It’s a winter hood that ensures you’re not freezing.
I think that you should be allowed to sell FO's because it's not in competition with, or taking anything away from the designer. Reproducing or selling the pattern is 100% wrong.
I really appreciate your commentary on balaclavas from a Muslim perspective. I am not Muslim, but I am Jewish and cover my hair with tichels because of my religion. I will never know the oppression of Islamophobia but I do experience antisemitism around my choice to veil, and I feel a sense of community with Muslim women who wear hijab. Like you said it is systemic and not personal, but it does strike that same cord in me that it does in you. It’s a sense of grief almost, that secular women are allowed to cover their hair in peace and religious women, mostly hijabi women, are not allowed that luxury. I really appreciate hearing about the small bits of your faith and how it impacts your knitting, much love and blessings to you🫶
Personally my unpopular opinion is balanclavas aren't really cute... I live north of some parts of Canada in the "lower 48" if you dint have a balanclava, cowl and hat etc your face will freeze off... Balanclavas are excellent for a place like here but we are not winning any contests when we put layer after layer on til we look like the Michelin man
My opinion on Salling finished objects: i would be so proud of my own designing skills if people wanted to knit my designs just to sell and even more proud if they actually sell the item 😅 I sell a pattern to you = you get to do what you want with your finished objekt.
On selling FOs: I think as others have said the pattern/design is similar to a cooking recipe. So I don’t think it’s bad to sell FOs you made from a purchased pattern. If you were to sell a lot of FOs made from the same pattern, it could be nice to give a kickback to the designer Ex: repurchasing the pattern or donating the cost of the pattern to the designer each year that you sell more than 10 FOs from that pattern I don’t think it’s necessary, but it would be a like way to show appreciation to the designer and give them further credit for their work too
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I'm actually from europe, and had no idea about the controversy of balaklavas. About the matter of selling FO-s, mass manufacturing is definietly unacceptable in my opinion, but selling your hand-made FO of a desing should be fine. If you thing about it, what about the people, who can't knit, but fall in love with a design of yours? (Assuming of course, that you yourself are not selling FO-s of your own design.)
When thinking about selling a knitted object made from someone else’s pattern - is it different if a non-knitter hires you to knit something that they want, but can’t make for themselves?
I definitely have never considered the balaclava vs headcovering issue before, so thank you for bringing that to my attention. I could see why that could be considered a double-standard where headcoverings are illegal and/or discouraged. That said, when my daughter asked me to make her one, I was excited to do that because I love making both hats and cowls and that is a great functional combination of both. I am going to make another one for myself this winter (in Chicago, it very practical). In terms of cultural impact, I certainly hope it is not construed as a trendy fashion accessory to make any others, especially muslim women, feel like 2nd class citizens. If anything I hope it signifies anything at all it is that it is up to each woman and man to decide for themselves whether, when and how to cover their hair... for practical, religious, fashion or modesty reasons.
I agree with almost everything you're saying but I really wanna say something regarding selling FOs. I don't think it's okay that some designers forbid people to sell their FOs, especially regarding large items. I do agree that it would not be very nice to mass produce FOs from someone else's pattern and sell them but let's be realistic. Except for the small items, is anyone really gonna purchase like a cardigan pattern and knit it 30 times this year so they can sell them and make tons of money? I think that's nonsense. In the past, I knit a shawl and realized maybe I wasn't gonna wear it. I contacted the designer to explain the situation and ask if I could sell it to someone else and they said no. I absolutely disagree with that. I purchased yarn and worked many hours on this item. Why can't someone else have the it and pay me for the materials I've used and the time I put on it? Unfortunately, I don't think I'm gonna be purchasing that designer's patterns again in the future. Designers sell their patterns and get paid for them. Crafters can sell their work and get paid for it. If they paid the designer by purchasing the pattern and then they put like 50 hours of work into the item, why is it not okay for them to sell it and get paid for their time and materials? As long as nothing is done in an abusive or malicious way, I really think the problem is nonexistent. Your point on the balaclava thing is very interesting. I wasn't aware of that reality.
I have absolutely no problem with people selling an FO as long as they say it is designed by so and so and don’t try to pass it off as their design. You can hire people to knit or finish knitting something for you and depending on the hours involved it could easily be hundreds dollars just for the labor. I don’t see that as any different than selling an FO you may have intended for yourself but for whatever reason no longer want. Maybe it doesn’t fit, isn’t the right color, or you are decluttering. You can resell off the e rack clothing and nobody has a problem with that. You don’t need permission from Gucci to sell your used Gucci item. Why would you need permission from a knit wear designer to sell your own piece of knitwear that belongs to you?
Salam Alaikum sister! As a hijabi, your take on the balaclava was so interesting to me and really resonated. I have been followed, stared at, and had people come up and comment in rude ways because of my hijab. Seeing people wear basically the same thing and NOT have that happen is always kind of a wistful moment for me. Like "wow I wish I could cover and not be yelled at." Or even when modest fashion became a trend. I always thought "why can you wear long dresses with long sleeves and call yourself cottage core and cute, but when I do it, I'm oppressed?" Lots to think about! Thank you for the video, it was wonderful!
If I make it, I can sell it. I will credit the designer but you can’t tell me not to sell items I hand make. Mass production does feel different though. I’d want to go into contract with the designer.
The idea of selling a finished piece depends on whether the person you are knitting the piece for bought the pattern. If so, you, as the knitter, knit it; the person pays for the yarn, pattern, and labor. I think of it in the way that you hired a sewist to sew a garment.
When pattern writers have a blurb about not reselling FOs, it turns me off of their patterns because it feels very entitled. If you don't want people doing whatever they want with the FOs, don't sell the pattern. Even though I would never sell anything myself (I'm a slow crafter and value my time so I only gift FOs), it makes me feel really icky about them as a person. I'm of two minds when it comes to pattern redistribution. If it's a paper copy, it's ok because you no longer have it. Same when it comes to buying secondhand knitting books or borrowing them from the library. If my kids or spouse knit, I would share patterns with them and not make them buy their own copy. That just feels weird. Redistributing pdfs online, though, seems an obvious and egregious violation of copyright law.
Re: people selling finished items from someone else's design: People who do not know hoe to knit or crochet or ate physically unable to do so cannot reasonably expect someone else to make these items for them for free. They don't deserve to be forbidden access to a sweater they love or an amigurumi toy they adore just because of their inability to make it themselves. Also, it's a pretty big favor to ask of someone to do all that for free. Should the designer be compensated? Perhaps, because it is their design. But I don't believe "You can't have this unless you are able to make it yourself" is kind of harsh and unfair. And of you ask someone to do all that work for you, of course you are going to pay them for their time, effort, and materials.
Selling FOs, when giving credit to the original designer and yarn dyer/brand, is totally ethical in my opinion. I am a process knitter and I dont tend to wear or use everything I make, especially if my tastes have changed over time. Destashing FOs prevents them from gathering dust, or ending up in a landfill. I am the one who bought the yarn and spent the time and effort making the item, and that contributes to 95% of the price of the item. If selling FOs makes designers uncomfortable, is gifting or donating FOs also wrong? Where is the line?
I had a question about that line too- is it okay to knit matching hats for a large family from one pattern? As well as a lot of dyers pay sample knitters to knit a project, therefore the knitter is selling the item (whether some cost is covered via yarn and pattern- there’s still compensation..)…
I knitted a pullover from a well known designer. I put a lot of work in it. The pattern has colorwork and lots of twisted stitches. It took me ages and I bought the recommended yarn, which was an expensive one. After finishing the pullover….to big 😢😢 Now I really consider selling it, because it is such a pity to have it useless in my cupboard…I don’t want to win money, just cover the expenses on the wool. I don’t think that’s disrespectful to the designer
I think that it should be OK to sell handmade FOs, if you’re an independent knitter and give credit to the designer. There’s only so many sweaters a person can knit, and lets face it the people buying them probably aren’t knitters. If they were they’d most likely go ”I can make that myself in the colors & materials I prefer”, or maybe that’s just me. You’re putting your time and money (for materials) into it and should be compensated for it if you don’t wish to keep the piece. Sometimes we want to knit a pattern to learn a new technique, not because we love the idea of the finished item. If it’s a big brand that starts manufacturing and selling… That’s a different story! They should pay the designers based on how much they earn from selling their designs.
Watching late at night while knitting a cowl with earbuds as hubby is asleep beside me, and our three children are fast asleep. 25:00 I wanted to jump on here as a woman with Prussian Mennonite heritage. I have a traditional Kokum that my mother gifted me as I am also Saskatchewan First Nations. Here in the US I can't actually wear it in the traditional manner without fearing that I will look Islamic. I was wearing it in the mall recently and I was noticing all the Muslim head coverings, and I realized that I can't wear it without being mistaken as one of them. I pulled the scarf down from my head and wore it around my neck instead. That feeling of fear and being saddened that I can't wear my culture (being both Prussian and Saskatchewan First Nations) is something that will always stick with me. It's like one religion has claimed an appearance and I can't wear what is from my culture without fear of accusations of cultural-appropriation. Just my thoughts as a woman with Prussian Mennonite/Saskatchewan First Nations ancestry.
For number 1: on one side, it's annoying to see similar patterns as sometimes it can feel uninspiring for me. On the other side, similar looking final products can come from very different written instructions. So I'm glad we have a lot of options to choose from. For instance, I love how The Knit Purl Girl writes her patterns, because it's super detailed. I don't need to watch a video to remember how to do GSR thanks to her instructions, etc. But for some, it would be way too wordy and almost "painful" to follow as they prefer more "minimalistic" pattern instructions.
I think the knitting community can get a little too gatekeeper-ish about things and you see that more in western markets. Some of these test knit requirements like showcasing the FO on IG is ridiculous considering all the expectations for a sub $10 pattern. As far as similar patterns, I see these like a recipe for pound cake. Almost every baking cookbook has one and it's just a slight change to a basic pound cake recipe - if you like it, use it; if not, skip it. I don't see how a person thinks they can control what someone else does with a pattern they've purchased especially when it is a one-off sale - this just puts me off the designer. There are many people who enjoy knitting and knit just about every pattern out there. I don't expect them to keep all their FOs especially if they have no need/use of the garments.
I knit an crochet and for a long time, i only watched knitting content on RU-vid, not crochet. When i startet watching more crochet, i realized, HOW gatekeep-ish the knitting community is, compared to the crochet community. It also shows when it comes to acrylic yarns and stuff, while totally normal in the crochet community, it is way more looked down in the knitting community.
There’s definitely snobbery masquerading as morality in the knitting streets and it’s off-putting. The current generation of designers behave as though they invented every stitch and its subsequent iteration. Madness.
So true. Some people may not have access to the most expensive yarns and I encourage all to knit with what they can afford. Even if you can afford it and choose to use acrylic, go for it. I have seen so many gorgeous knits made with affordable yarn and some super basic knits made with $300 worth of hand-dyed sweater. It's always a certain group of knitters who act so morally superior - I just ignore them and stick to those whose content I enjoy. If you like knitting Petiteknit with Drops yarn, go for it. She had beautiful patterns, they have affordable quality yarn. And we all know where many of these hand-dyers get their blanks from. Why should I pay three times the amount for beige/natural yarn when I can get the blank yarn from the source. And even for certain brands, we know who's producing their yarns - all they do is slap a label.
@@Enig_Mata absolutely! Needlecrafts have always been some of the most accessible forms of art, developed in a domestic environment and not in elite colleges. There’s no need to make it exclusive with cynical rules.
Selling a FO that I made and finally does not fit me doesn’t seem an issue to me ( IE for the price of the yarn ) but selling some else pattern projects for benefit sounds wrong
As far as the balaclava issue- put that discussion in your pattern. There are truly people out there who don't know what's going on. And raising awareness is a good thing. Plus- if everyone is wearing it- it reduces the stigma.
I do kinda feel that the new patterns shown in Ravelry often feel like the same thing over and over again. But I have no problem using the Advance Search criteria to find patterns I like. I do tend to get most of my ideas from podcasts rather than searches. Totally agree that popular designers and popular patterns mean something is likely right about them. I know I can trust the instructions of certain popular designers where I've had to try to figure out what the designer was wanting me to do on more unknown designers. I would offer to pay for the pattern if I didn't finish the test knit since I didn't complete my part of the deal. Course this might depend on how well the pattern was written in the first place. I ran into my first experience with co-knitters sharing patterns. I was surprised as money is not an issue for these women. They viewed it has sharing a book they had purchased. I don't knit any shared pattern. I purchase the pattern via Ravelry if I decide to knit it.
I've had discussions on the patterns being similar and have discussed with some people what point of modifications or changes like a different stitch pattern or techniques used that you prefer is it a new pattern, also with self-drafting patterns how much is it your own original design and how much is information or techniques you've collected on the way from other patterns and therefore truly unique. On selling FO, I get close family or friends to pay for material if I don't have it in my stash or they ask me to specifically make it. Still, they understand the work I put into it and that it is on my timeline around work and personal obligations. For people outside of that, I typically say no. Still, if they don't accept no then I look and see if the pattern allows selling in small batches and then give a price point that covers material and labour, and usually, they won't accept that price point which I don't care since it doesn't matter to me.
Personally, I think if you knit a piece intending it to be a gift or for yourself, and you/the recipient don't like it, THEN it would be ok to sell it to try and recoup the time/yarn costs. If you buy a knitwear pattern intending to produce and sell the FOs, I think that's a little slimy.
balaclavas are essentially hoods that are detached from clothing? it's like saying i feel weird seeing other people wearing (completely unrelated styles and design of) wrap dresses as a trend because chinese people get attacked when they wear their cultural wrap dresses (wrap dress is a made-up example, using chinese people since i'm chinese). now things become different when say saris or kimonos are huge trends but indian/japanese people cannot wear them safely
It is actually similar to the other points you mention. Maybe it helps to check out the term „cultural appropriation“. You‘ll find also the discussion about balaclavas and how they‘re related to hijabs and other religious headscarves.
@@mandyhartwig9456 i actually looked up balaclava before typing this comment. balaclava was originated in poland/russia areas in the 1850s and worn by british troops. what culture did people appropriate by wearing balaclavas?
all the crocheters i follow are always so down for you to sell what you make if you make their pattern obviously dont give or sell the actual pattern just direct people to the creator. assumed it was the same for knitting
I feel like if you make something for yourself from a pattern and you don't like the result it's okay to sell. But if you are creating bulk amounts and patterns don't specify that they are for commercial use you definitely shouldn't sell. About the last one I live in Norway and never thought about the issue this way. Maybe because all the kids in daycare use it winter long and I'm just used to the look. It's about the safety and practicality of balaclavas.
I’m a regular test knitter and I have seen a few designers say if you don’t finish you’ll be asked to pay. Thankfully I’ve not seen it much, and it’s put me off applying for the test knit completely. I also feel similar about designers who put requirements on the number of times you must post about the process etc, of course I always will because I like sharing my knitting but requiring a certain number of posts or reels on instagram is a bit mad for me!
It happened to me once. I applied for a pattern that said „beginner friendly“ and I told the designer I am a beginner. The pattern was about double knit and the way she wrote it did not make ANY sense to me. I asked several times for help, but she said it is how double knit is explained. When I said I am not able to do this test knit because I didn’t understand the pattern, she asked me several times to pay for the pattern until I did. I am not following her anymore and also never did any test knit anymore.
@@mandyhartwig9456 there’s so much wrong with this isn’t there! There’s no way double knit is beginner for starters. And if the pattern isn’t written well enough, and she can’t explain it, that’s not your issue that you can’t complete the test!
I understand your feelings about the balaclava and the hypocrisy surrounding those who can vs those who can't. It reminds me of mistreatment/labelling of people who wear baggy clothes or have dreadlocks. If you're dark-skinned, you're labeled as a thug or as someone who's dirty and unkempt; but if you're white, it's fashion. The recent riots in the UK that targeted the Muslim community was another reminder. Funny how the same anti-Muslim rioters had not problem wearing masks or covering their faces, but let that be a Muslim and the person is labeled as a térrorist or even assáulted. Also odd that the same governments that ban face veils for Muslims required face masks during the pandemic.
Balaclavas and hijabs have no similarity whatsoever. Balaclavas are worn for health and safety from the cold, not as a fashion statement or religious expression. Thats like comparing a winter coat to the robe of a monk. Just because they might have the same shape and coverage, doesn't make them functionally and culturally the same. Its a strange take to connect the "balaclava trend" and how and why women dress the way they do. Is the rest of the world not supposed to prevent frostbite because islamophobia exists? The two things simply aren't connected whatsoever.
I agree with you and other commenters that balaclavas are culturally European when worn to protect from the cold. But I think Bash was trying to say it is different when they are worn as a fashion item to look cute, not to keep warm. However I wonder how Bash feels about people wearing other hoods and headscarves for fashionable reasons - the ubiquitous hooded sweatshirt for example or Hermes head scarves? It's a difficult issue. My unpopular opinion is that each person can make their own decision about what to wear - but if headwear is banned in a certain situation, eg a school or workplace, for safety or other good reasons then the ban applies to all headwear and there is no exception for headwear worn for religious reasons. That in my view is treating people equally and not discriminating against anyone.
Tester requirements are tricky, life happens but I think there is risk people volunteer to get free patterns. So I can understand some sort of statement to reduce risk of that. As long as the requirements to do the test are all posted when you sign up, I feel that's up to the tester to decide what is fair to ask a tester to do. Though it seems the general agreed "payment" is the finished tested pattern plus another pattern from the shop currebtly
I personally think balaclavas are ugly 😅 but i do agree it's a double standard to be fine with having someone's face covered because they're skiing but not because they're religious. There are so many Christians who actively advocating for violence, but people don't ban cross necklaces or (usually) claim all Christians are terrorists because of that! I never think it's a good idea to assume a person is xyz because they pratice xyz religion. I'd love a video talking about how your faith impacts your knitting - it's always nice learning about other people's experiences.
I agree with most of what you said, however, I think I disagree on the "selling a finished piece from a pattern you bought" stance. Maybe I'm not exactly understanding what the issue is, but I don't see a problem with that at all...? 🤷♀ Unless the pattern-maker has stated that pieces made from their pattern are for personal use only and not to be sold, I'm really not seeing why that would be unethical? I mean, I do think that if you sold a finished piece made from a pattern you bought, you should list where or from whom you bought the pattern... but patterns, imo, are tools. I think the person selling the finished piece is pricing it to cover their supplies (including the pattern), their time, and how much they think it is worth. Like I said, I think it should be stated that it's made from a pattern, but yeah, I'm not seeing why that's "wrong". I also didn't realize there was a difference in view on this between knitters and crocheters. I knit, sew, and embroider... but I don't crochet. I don't sell my knit items (I'm a slower knitter and really just make a couple pieces a year lol), but I sometimes sell things I've sewn (which often include machine embroidered designs), and the embroidered designs are usually design patterns I've bought. I've never heard anyone say this was unethical. But, maybe I'm not fully comprehending the issue. 😅
At least in the US, you can't copyright a piece of knitwear. You can copyright the pattern itself, the photos and written materials you've produced, but a pattern designer has zero say over what happens from anything made from the pattern. If I make something and it doesn't fit, should I just keep it in the closet? I put labor into making the item, maybe I'd like to be compensated for my labor if I'm not going to use it. I know that there's a lot of work involved in producing patterns, but these crafts have existed for thousands of years and most patterns aren't actually providing something that's never been done before. As far as people sharing patterns, sure maybe it feels like you lost a ~potential~ sale, but that's kind of how physical media works. I like a book I've bought, I lend it to my friend. If I check a knitting pattern book out of the library, am I stealing a sale from the author?
Some pattern drafters (particularly for bags) will mention on their sewing patterns that it's ok to produce small volumes for a market say - or will sell a corporate copy at a higher price for people to make on a larger scale. I think that's appropriate
I feel like selling an fo in knitting is less common because knitting is harder and takes longer. I knit and crochet and just cant crank out knits like I can crochet fo's.
Selling is def a thing. Esp knit hats. At least here in the US and I think most people sell garments though I imagine getting paid what they’re worth is really hard sometimes thanks to fast fashion. But I agree with the crochet being higher on the market trends. Esp Ami.
I agreed with most of your opinions. As a crocheter I had no idea the knitting community frowned upon selling finished works of paterns made by other designers. I learned something knew!! The final opinion is very humbleing. As a former Christian I had a lot of religious privilege growing up in the US.
Loved this video! I just found your channel and subscribed :) Personally I think it's okay to sell FOs of any type (crochet, knit, sewn, etc..) as long as it's explicitly stated in the pattern or you ask the designer, and credit them when selling. Selling a knitwear pattern is very different from selling FOs. The people who are buying knitwear patterns are likely not going to overlap with the people who are buying FOs at markets--people who can knit would likely buy the original pattern and make it themselves, so I don't think it's taking away business from the designer, as long as you credit them. I would never sell my FOs because the price would have to be so high due to the amount of time I spent on it though
Firstly, I didn't know people were recycling patterns they bought, until a little while ago, and that's a big slap in the face for designers and I'd always want to support a designer. As an artist, I know all too well how much time and effort it is to create a thing, and plan how to make it. I've never written patterns to sell, but I do know the effort it would take to make one. That said, my spicy take is that some patterns out there are outrageous prices- over $10, for something not terribly hard to figure out without it. Those to me are fair game in my books, as I feel a maker should want their patterns to be accessible, and they might have alot more sales and less issues with 'sharing'. There are also patterns that are above $10 for something very complex or unusual, and I'm okay to spend money on those. I support art, not greed. As for beleclavas.. being non Muslim, I never gave it thought about there being an issue with beleclavas. They are a staple where I grew up in Northern Ontario Canada, they've been part of my childhood, and def are their own separate thing from the debate with jijabs. I've always been of the camp that people should have the right to wear what they wish to, it's not my business. So long as it's not 'hateful'. Making anyone feel unsafe, makes for an unsafe place to be for everyone. Being I look different and neurodivergent and I was bullied mercilessly as a kid, I too often feel unsafe, so I know how that feels. Will I stop wearing beleclavas when it's cold? Likely not. However, I do feel there needs to be far more inclusiveness and discussion around different cultural identities, because it's not okay to feel scared walking down a street somewhere. Period.
Hmm in my experience, usually selling FOs is a commissioned work; like sample knitters etc who are paid for their time. There are no knitters I personally know who are dropping a hundred hours and a hundred dollars to knit a pullover and listing it somewhere hoping that someone who wears that size and has the budget to buy something that expensive will just happen upon it and buy it.
Congratulations on getting hitched! So exciting! I can see selling an FO in like a second-hand context. Like I don't find myself reaching for it or I don't wear it anymore, I wouldn't hesitate to move it along and make a little $ like I would with anything else in my wardrobe, but absolutely in a business standpoint, someone selling FOs at a craft fair does feel weird. Thank you for bringing the balaclava thought to light. I had never thought of it that way, and I do see what you mean. That's a thinker, and a completely valid thought. It's a very real inconsistency if I can wear a balaclava because I'm cold, but the lady next to me can't wear a hijab/veil of any sort even though the reason why she is wearing it is infinitely more important than my chilly ears - and this is in places that call themselves civilized. I absolutely understand feeling a little yucky about that.
Thank you for mentioning the Instagram thing! I would love to test knit for some of the knitwear designers out there, but sooo many of them have “must have a public instagram page [to post about the TK]” as a hard requirement. I don’t have a knitting account, only my private personal profile and it makes me sad that such an arbitrary reason is why I won’t ever be chosen as a test knitter. Why should me having a public profile have anything to do with my ability to test knit and provide feedback on the pattern???
@@christina9156 There are many designers on Ravelry that just want testers or might require you create a Ravelry project page, no IG posting required. I think some of it depends on where you find the designer.
Yeah it is a bit stressful if the designer requires you to pay for the pattern if you don't finish the test knit. But the reason for that is understandable, I think: there are so many people who apply for testing, get the pattern, and ghost the designer. One thing I don't like in test knitting that some designers give such a short time for a whole sweater. Some designers are more cool and they only require you to finish certain parts of the sweater before the dl. I live in Northern Europe and balaclavas are baby hats or skiing hats here. So there's nothing about covering hair in the origin. But it does look a bit same as hiqab, that is true. Could it be seen as a possibility to be able to wear a headwear that is fashionable but also suitable for jews and muslims? 😊 But I do of course understand the dilemma.
Im adding here to the pattern sharing lol. If i had a knit pattern book or magazine, i would borrow it for my friend. But again if i had bought a pattern from ravelry, i would not share it!
honestly i really appreciate your last opinion !! as someone who’s agnostic but previously religious, it’s interesting to see how trends can conflict with our beliefs. it’s also disheartening to see how women wearing hijabs are disrespected but those with balaclavas are seen as trendy. overall, thank you for sharing your thoughts 🫶🏽 a lot of food for thought!!
I have knit items by request. The person pays for the pattern and i have made the item as the person doesnt knit. I knit by proxy. I dont amke items for sale As for items where it turned out but i dont or cannot wear, i think itnis fine to sell as used clothing like selling something you bought like a purse. These are at a lossnot to make money
thanks for your video! Though I think most of what you said isn't really unpopular opinions as much as common sense imo. However one thing I wanted to add: on the topic of balaclava and hijab. I think you're conflating two different things here. A balaclava does cover the head and hair, true, but that's where the similarities end. It's not a religious symbol, nor is it only worn by women. Your argument is basically like saying... oh look, other people are wearing necklaces! Why can't I wear the Nazi symbols around my neck! ( I know Nazisim is not a religion by any means but it's the first thing that came to mind. I'm not comparing it to religious practice, just trying to make an extreme point) I would agree that nobody should interfere with another person's religion and its practices. But would also ask that the person adheres to the customs and rules of the society that they are moving into. Most laws in Europe concerning hijab actually only concern the full face covering and wearing of religious symbols (from all religions) in a government related office for example. When I travel to certain countries where their religious believes dictate that my hair should be covered or that I dress a certain way I will adhere to that or else I will not go there. Why is it such a big matter the other way around?
Coming from Denmark, a country which banned full-face coverings, I really appreciate your perspective. I also adore balaclavas, and think that there is a serious issue with the ignorance. Though I see balaclavas as something different due to a type of beanie children wear here called elefanthuer ("elephant beanie"). I am a firm believer that people with headcoverings (and everyone else) should have the right to express themselves as they wish, and it is horrible that something is fashion whereas the other is something to be worthy of discrimation. Hope the comment isn't too messy. I just wanted to shed a light from up North, where there is a culture of both things
I think that selling finished objects based on someone else's pattern as an individual maker is completely fine no matter what. Legally its fine, there is no country that i know of that can go after you for selling an object created from someone else's set of instructions. Ethically, if someone is buying a finished object it means they were not going to knit it themselves, so there is no world in which the buyer of a sweater was going to buy the original pattern, no-one is being harmed or deprived in that interaction. I also believe it is ethically fine to sell finished objects based on a pattern with stipulations not to, it has absolutely zero tangible impact on a pattern writer, and while they have the right to not like that someone is selling a sweater they told them how to make, its frankly ridiculous to put the burden of managing those feelings on the people who buy that pattern. I wouldn't like people knitting a pattern i wrote just for sale, because I have some feeling that they don't fully care about the item in a way I would like them to (and so I would also only sell items from patterns that explicitly allow it), but that is irrational and it would be scummy for me to pretend to make it a legal issue. Redistributing patterns is a funny one because I am fully fine with piracy except for knitting patterns. Obviously it is illegal, most patterns state that and its just common sense that if you pay for instructions for something, you can't just fully give out those instructions for free without permission from the publisher. But I feel like the lack of respect is so much more tangible for crafts than it is any other sort of thing that can be pirated because its a skill issue. They are not skilled enough to recreate an object from sight, but place so little value in the skills taken to create it that they have to resort to piracy, its just gross. Either respect the designer enough to know they are worth paying, or develop the skill to do it on your own. You can save money on patterns in many ways and the most effective and most ethical one is to just get better at knitting, and its a shame that some people apparently don't think its worth doing
I don’t understand your comparison between balaclavas and Muslims. Like….. at all. No ideas where you’re going with that…..what’s the difference between wearing a hat and scarf and a balaclava? and how do we go from keeping warm to politics? I think you’re over thinking. Love your videos. Peace and love ✌🏼
The issue is that non-muslim women can freely wear a balaclava but muslims are harassed for wearing a similarly shaped accessory. Some countries even ban hijab but are perfectly fine with hoods and balaclava. It’s a societal problem, not balaclava specific.
I appreciate you speaking about the Balaklava topic! I had never thought of it. I was surprised about the rise in popularity of them in the past few years because to me, they were the itchy and uncomfortable thing I would have to wear as a child during winter and I have not worn one since I revolted against them in primary school lol. in Spain we call them "pasamontañas", which literally translates to "mountain passing" (I'm going to take a wiiiild guess here and say they were probably used to cross through cold, windy, snowy mountains lol), and they often cover the mouth and nose as well. I never made the connection to how it's so similar to Muslim head coverings, yet the way they're perceived is so different.
i never thought about how balaclavas and Muslim hate could be connected so thank you for making me more aware of it. (Hopefully, that was phrased well)
I love your differentiated and deep thoughts. Everything you say shows that you really thought about these points and it is very interesting to hear your formed opinion. Your last point though hit so hard, because it is so true. I studied history and one topic back then was the rise of Islamophobia and its background. I think it is so important to make other people aware of the immense rise of Islamophobia and how politics and the media use a religion to form a demonized picture of it, in order to legalize their actions. It is just so sad and so one-sided also in the media. So when you talked about this point, I was just, WOW, yes this is so so true! We all need to be more aware. Thank you, I am really happy I saw your video. 😊
I think your opinion on balaclavas is interesting. I live in the country which has recently witnessed violent protests against Muslims, immigrants, and BIPOC people. I was not surprised by such acts of violence as I have witnessed an increasing divisive tactic from politicians and the media to gain and keep power at the cost of people's humanity, respect and dignity. I do think balaclavas are cute but I have never made or owned one. Mainly out of respect and solidarity for my Muslim practicing friends. However, it can be difficult on drawing a line between cultural appropriation and learning about and appreciating different cultures from our own. I would be interested in watching a video from yourself about this subject and thank you for providing a space to have this conversation ❤
@@aoomi as I have mentioned, in conversations with my friends who are Muslim practicing people's (yes, I am aware that this is anecdotal) they hold strong opinions that a head covering, be it a balaclava or wrapping a scarf over the head, is appropriating their cultural garment e.g. hijab. However, it is not my place to disagree or agree with their beliefs of cultural appropriation as a non-practicing Muslim. But rather to listen to and respect their opinions.
@@folklore.knitter sorry for the maybe stupid question, but i really never heard of this conversation. Any form of head cover? So hats etc., or are you refering to head covering that "slightly" look similar to a hijab?
Balaclavas and head coverings have existed in Europe and other parts of the world for a while now, some even before islam was a thing. They don’t get to decide that something similar in another culture is now somehow appropriation
