Almost every single terrain-builder video out there: You want your terrain to look good, but not to outshine your minis because they´re the stars of the show...
I've got a terrain piece from some Age of Sigmar line on my desk. It's rather simple made. It's just three colors. The walls are a bluish grey, the wood is brown, and the metal is black. Took me no time really to paint up. When I look at that 40k terrain I just get sad, because there's too much detail that can't just be drybrushed or slapped some contrast on.
Sold my GSC army because it was too detailed to paint. Got Drukhari which look like they have a ton of detail but it’s mostly tricks the sculptors have used to make it look that way without making them suck to paint. They have been a very enjoyable army to paint.
Despite their very spiky look they do take edge highlights easily and well by just running the brush along the side. I am picking up what you a putting down - Cal
Painting Battletech miniatures has been such a breath of fresh air. All you have to do is block in the primary and secondary colors of a mech, the cockpit glass, and all the metal details such as weapons, jump jets, and actuators.
I am looking towards battletech more and more. There is a point when painting another fur mantle, intricate hairdressing or layering a perfect skin on a half naked dwarven maiden only adds frustration. I want mah Timberwolf and Marauder, they have STRAIGHT lines! They have clearly distinct zones and panels! =)
I'm having a similar experience with the Legions Imperialis stuff. Yes it's fantastically detailed but at that scale I just need to pick out a few spots like you said. Except on the titans, because my fool self decided to do gold trim all the god damn everywhere. T_T
i play battletech and even the simplest color scheme looks fitting into the mechs. You can go with full green with one leg and one arm gray or white or yellow. Even one of the most popular color schemes is just red on the top and black on the legs. And you can take that same scheme and just change colors with black on the legs and light brown on the top etc,
🤔 Pretty sure there's a scene in The Inferno where Dante walks past souls damned to paint GW terrain to Golden Demon standards for all eternity without using airbrushes, washes, or contrast paints and most are still working on their first piece. I'm with you on the separate detail sprues! They make plenty of fiddly bits for the minis so why not terrain too? Great idea!
The insane amount of unnecessary detail on GW minis could be one of the reasons why they are so bloody expensive. I prefer using the older models from the 90s and early 2000s. However, on the rare occasion when I buy a modernhammer miniature, I always remove details I deem unnecessary. For example, on a regular space marine I remove all the panel lines from the armour plates so that all the armour is a flat smooth surface. In the case of Abaddon I removed all the spikes and teeth from his armour, and some of the cabling that were under his arms. I also modified all of his chaos trim to look more like the classic chaos trim from the older chaos models.
My most miserable expirience is painting a 1k points Thousand Sons army, and painting 1k points of new Cadians. Tsons because of the god damn trim and Cadians because of detail creep. New Shock Troopers have so much little details, pouches, holsters and stuff. Previously when I painted a Cadian Shock Trooper it took me about 30 minutes to paint one to a tabletop standard. Now it takes me more than an hour. It was mentally draining.
I started kitbashing some Imperial Guard models for my own regiment, takign the bodies of some Warlord games Pike & Shotte european regiment and the weapons and arms from some leftover Astra Militarum sprues, and I feel like I probably ditched some of that excessive details. The new cadians also fit surprisingly well with the Warlord games minis, scale wise. I only need a little bit of greenstuff here and there for minor gaps. Can't wait to get onto painting these lads.
i painted about 7,000 points of warhammer fantasy High Elves, and enjoyed most of it. The worst unit to paint was the Lothern Sea Guard, which were also one of the newest kits in the range and consequently much more detailed. It's sad that the newer, more detailed models are ironically less enjoyable to paint. Sometimes less is more- GW needs to get the memo on this!
I know the feeling, currently sitting on my Thousand Sons. Its the Gold-Trim of Dooooooom. But since they are a bit older, not much but a bit, they are still somewhat manageable. at least compared to some of the new Kill-Team sets.
Every year I paint 5-10 of my high elves and then just give up… And some of the sculpts are actually pretty terrible like the tiranoc chariot and the silver helms arent really that superior to their old metal counterparts…
@@bingobongo1615 What are you looking for in them? Because if you want more detailed minis Heroes Infinite by Raging Heroes have some great elf sculpts - Cal
If I’m honest I am happy with the printed cardboard terrain. Detail creep is frustrating on miniatures though. Painting the Bretonnian men at arms or Mantics halflings has been a true joy.
Well I think you may enjoy our next episode a lot... Its about our best Warhammer experience and uhhh let's just say we agree on a lot ☺ Or its out now for members... - Cal
My most miserable experience thus far has been painting my Celestian Sacresants. The goddammed GILDED TRIM on the gorget and backpack BROKE me. I finished a test model, and cannot bring myself to do another at the moment. I'm going to have to tackle them like characters from other armies; slow and steady. I did it to myself; I love the nuns with guns, but FFS the amount of detail on them is mind-breaking. Even the new Primaris marines are a breath of fresh air after that.
Oh yeah but don't worry you are wrong the detail levels are good apparently that's what people keep telling us... A few people... I totally feel what you are saying because I actually paint like you 😅 I totally feel you - Cal
I went hard on Chalnath, Fronteris Nachmund with an overgrown forest look, and started on Gallowdark and its accessories and totally got burnt out. Recently purchased a Battle Systems Galactic Core set and had so much fun putting it together. Breath of fresh air. Will get back to Gallowdark at some point, but it has so many parts and detail, it's gonna take ages.
Honestly GW should make the return of the bitz catalog. For anyone who doesn't know at least until mid 2000s here in the USA you could go to your local GW and ask to order specific parts and usually very low cost. Personally I made nearly all conversions at that time and it would have been impossible for me to build my creations ootherwise. If GW expands the bits catalog to offer terrain parts AND bits from any product removed from shelves (while stock is available) it could be a really great thing for both the community and the company clearing out space on its shelves for new inventory. (If the bits catalog is still around please let me know!)
Our group has been playing together for over 20 years. We built our custom-made campaign maps years ago. Our group is made up mostly retired IT people. There were 4 people in the original group, but we've grown to 14 over the years. Interestingly, most our new members were found by our kids, who've been playing with us since before they were teenagers. The demise of GW hit us hard, but it also gave us new hope because we've decided to go our own way. We will create our own lore, rule-sets, models, design our own armies, and print them on the 2 3D printers we purchased. While we decided we won't be playing shops or tournaments anymore, we'll continue to enjoy our hobby in the comfort of our own homes, on our custom-made campaign maps, where the Death Knights don't have to wear the new "GW sanctioned" pink and purple battle tutus. Best of all, we'll save a ton of money.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I get the gist of the video, but you know, there is no greater joy in table top gaming than watching your children and their children take an interest in something you've loved for years. There is no "negative energy" when your 8 year-old grand daughter is sitting on your lap telling you what move you should make.
Don't put down your own standards its okay, plus doing 4 boxes is much worse so know that it could be worse... much worse. And now you feel better... right? Right? - Cal
I really enjoy painting kill teams. That’s me. I like the amount of detail in them and the fact I can focus on 8 or 10 units at a time, which takes me weeks. I’m glad I have friends who do terrain tho… that seems like a chore
I have the ork terrain from the kill team box that has that in it, and when I painted it I just did all the pieces with varying rust colors, then a metal drybrush and I picked out a few details here and there and I called it done.
Im happily painting my old Fantasy / Old World Wood Elves right now. About 30% are minis from the 90s. And I love them! Are the pewter swords way too big? Unfortunatley yes. But The minis have a ton of charm and just the amount of detail I want. A lord or a mage can be blinged to the gills. But when you got to paint 30 ish regular troops? Then who honestly wants a ton of extra pouches, bottles, kniven etc? Esp in a game with ranks its just no real benefit
I watched your channel shorts but this is what's got a subscription. Yes, sometimes it's a bit too wooden reading from the script, but what you two have written to discuss is of the top quality in the hobby. No drama, no clickbait, but genuine hobby gripes with excellent constructive feedback to GW
We weren't reading from a script for this one 🥲 Oh well its not the first time someone said that, its ironic because that never is said in our fully scripted one. ANYWAY! Thanks for the compliment, we in our opinion of course are always genuine. We don't like drama for dramas sake we have said some apparently controversial things but I think our hot takes are flour is spicy level hot takes. But yeah, we always want to give solutions not just complain we don't think that's helpful. We want to inform then entertain, but we hope talk about genuine issues that we see give helpful feedback. Glad to have you on board hope you continue to enjoy our content - Cal P.S. If you want cool models we have two STLs as a part of our members package!
I love the idea of additional details bruise instead of The current one size fits all approach. They definitely should already be doing that for the price they are charging; especially considering it's what they used to do!
Yep I love the old marine style packs, I actually really like the style of the Primarus marines but I just wish they did them like the old school marines, head, torso, legs, arms. 100% with you - Cal
I did the first 2 boxes and man it was hell. It literally took me months. I haven't done the last two, I was just going to do the extra sprues but I don't even want to go back.
Yeah, I feel you. I painted 1k Sororitas as a gift for a friend and the amount of detail on every single mini killed a portion of my soul the further in I got. I never want to touch Sororitas again, and that’s a shame because I think some of their stuff is SUPER cool. I also bounced off the ITD terrain hard. I did one full wall to tabletop standard, realized it took me a week for that one wall, and did a gradient airbrush plus oil wash and drybrush to finish. Job’s a good’un.
With the modern computer designed multipart figures there are many spaces on the model where you cant even get a brush to in there, this wouldnt have happend in the hand sculpted days, as the sculpting tool as much the same shape as a brush. I find painting the old hand sculpted models far more enjoyable becouse i don't have to worry about painting in sub assemblies, or have really hard to reach areas and less fine detail over all.
I used to love painting, and I loved doing all the little details, but the problem is as you mentioned, repetitiveness. Extreme details are great.... on a one off mini. But once you've done your tenth, twentieth or even fiftieth piece of the same detail it all blends together. I used to play Orks, because to me, Orks were the best when it came to allowing people to do what they want with their vehicles and paint however you like, however, even Orks became really samey, and when I eventually gave up, there wasn't that many options out there for custom or 3D printed pieces, and what options there were, were often very expensive.
I am picking up what you're putting down. It's frustrating as we are trying to say hey this an issue and often we are faced with don't complain 😔 - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Absolutely! Personally, I have held a similar opinion to you guys in this video with the greebles. All of that should be separate to allow for differences and customisation, but also for you to be able to control the level of detail you want to include. A flat wall can look just as good, if not in some cases better if someone wants to make it so. I think back to the Space Wolves sets from 3ED and how you would basically get a Space Marine box set, with a couple of Space Wolf conversion sprues. You could make the team however it suits you. While the level of detail has improved, we are also seeing so many more static pose sets. Customisation, which was always the best thing from me, has become the price paid for higher detail.
I prefer pushing some of the detailing on seperate sprues (or seperately on the sprue) because of the way it opens options up as well as it probably being easier than adopting the whole new approach with the pretainting. I'm also unsure about gettign them prepainted, with chances being, that I'l lhave to paint over it anyway, to match it to my armies, or going for a specific style. As someone who's able to relatively quickly take a glance at gothic and baroque architectures, those doe have a lot of empty alcoves (at least today) and even without doing anything fancy with them painting wise, they would still look believable and good. Empty space can be a really good thing! Helps guide the eyes and not overload it with stuff. This Boarding actions terrain almost has the same effect as bullet hell games on ym eyes. wich is, not great x_x
I dont have any terrain yet, its something I'm working on. However, I have purchased the Snot Goblin Gaming set which is modular terrain which can be set up in various ways. Given that it will hopefully be some of the only terrain I'm gonna buy I'm hoping to paint every detail and that's it more or less forever
I'll be able to take it slow, if yours was a commission I'm guessing you would have had some pressure to finish too. It did look really good though, so many details though which may not even be appreciated by many
Well damn if I could have pre-painted terrain I'd get it even with 100% mark-up. I like to paint models and terrain, but I sure as hell postpone Gallowdark beacuse there is TOO MUCH detail for me. I feel like I'd have to paint for a long time just to get it done nicely, all the while I could paint my minis which I want to have painted so .... Dilemma is real haha
I suppose I find myself in the middle of the two. I primarily want to play with my armies, so painting can feel like an obstacle when it's a ton of models. But I also enjoy the amazing satisfaction of painting something and having it turn out great, sending pictures to my friends or showing them off on the battlefield. I made that! I try to balance these opposing goals by leaning on techniques that produce good looking results easier. I want to paint to play, but also look awesome.
I would be down with the separate sprue thing, I do enjoy painting, but it's also a task, just not an unenjoyable one. I have also discovered that time management produces far better results than simply blocking out a period of time for painting, if I block out 30 minutes for air brushing, 30 minutes for detail work, and 30 minutes for basing, I tend to get a lot more done than if I simply sit down and go "I'll spend 90 minutes hobbying/painting."
It must be happening because they don't do it by hand for a LONG time now. Once they made a 3D sculpt they probably just click a button and a CAD programm cuts it up automatically. Look closer at the sprues. It can be baffling how unfriendly to the consumer some of the builds are. Most times, not a single QA pass was made to account for ease of build, people who kitbash, people who magnetize. I convert and kitbash a lot (a lot) and I've been noticing it for a long time. They must have less than a dozen people working on all of it and their competence is uneven to say the least (Desolation Marines anyone?).
Yep... totally agree that's what we were talking about with the "Because we can thing" because you can isn't a good enough excuse. Products should be developed with the consumer in mind first and foremost - Cal
Detail creep is real. I rarely play these days so my hobby is 90% painting and the few GW kits I’ve painted the last few years have been a ton of work when compared to similar kits from mantic or tt combat. I’ve enjoyed them least because honestly the extra detail constrains the painter, it doesn’t actually help in my view.
Joke on you, there’s never enough skulls for my Khorne team. Joke aside, at first I thought details weren’t a big deal. But then when you talked about seperated sprues, I understood that they could be sold seperatly, and the base piece could be cheaper. It would lower the entry cost to the hobby (cash, time and skill) and yet let means for a minority to really go nut with details. Skulls for the skull throne !
Terrain is some of the least enjoyable things to paint. I have several times in the past bought pre-painted terrain, and maybe added a few finishing touches. I like the prisma cast idea, and hope to see it expanded onto wargaming terrain too.
i like details, but you can't have them everywhere. star wars ships are a perfect example. some parts are still relatively smooth. this looks much too cluttered. I think that's why the 2nd edition space marine is so enjoyable to paint. arguably more than v3
If you want details to be provided on a separate sprue, you're going to push up the cost. Having an entire separate sprue doubles the amount of machining of steel for the molds, thus doubling that aspect of cost in the production process. It's entirely do-able, but would see a big price jump as a consequence
I have all this painting supplies to try and make my life easier, but at the end of the day I still hate it. Painting is a chore. As someone who just wants a good enough looking model to play the game, the hobby aspect always feels like a massive barrier to get to the fun part.
And we totally get what you are saying! Not everyone is looking to do the painting and converting side of the hobby and folks like yourself should be considered too when Designing models ~Sunny
Pointless abundance of detail is part of Gothic architecture, so for me this is an important part of the (visual) lore of Warhammer. Guess I'm part of the minority. I absolutely am for your idea of add-on sprues, all your arguments are good. On the other hand I'd personally hate if there were no unpainted boxes available anymore. I'd have an inner blockage preventing me from painting something which already comes with colour.
I get what you are saying but even with the pointless abundance you still could have had that if you had the detail sprues sperate, but it would have been more of a choice and MUCH easier to paint - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow After that reply I'm not sure that you got what I'm saying. I said all your arguments on that matter are good and that I agree with your conclusion that putting intense detail on additional sprues/bits is a good idea.
I would possibly get into the game part kf wh40k except the game peices are too expensive and then i need to paint them whicj is even more time and equipment . One of the things that really appealed to me about games like d&d isnthat i can drop $60 for a rule book and then be off to the races.the dice are easy enough to get and while additional materials would be helpful they are not essential
They are great actually, they just wanted it to match the bases and our bases for them are actually quite technical. They just want to give their kids the options they never had. Which I think is super cool - Cal
I am scared to paint warhammer models, because I'm arfraid i will ruin them. They are precious, gorgeous and failure would brake my heart. That's why I left model scaling in the past when, while was stil kid, because I though I don't deserve this beautiful Tamiya tanks. I've started 40k in Jan. with painting 3d prints and only because i wouldn't regret ruining cheap prints. Recently bough old SM for CSM army and they were so poorly assembled that my conscious is clear and now I'm happily kitbashing them from hidious green stuff mutations to proud traitor marines :)
So you overcame your fear? I was afraid until I bought a pathfinders killteam, waited a month before I started my first model, watched tons of tutorials and after about 10 hours, I had my first model done. Wasn't nearly as bad as I thought, and I can get a model built and painted in about half the time now.
I take issue with people that regard other opinions as "small vocal minority". You are not the truth bearer and it comes across as condescending and self assured. And YOU are also very vocal. This is an opinion video, don't get so full of yourselves. And I say this as someone who agrees in this case.
I see what you are saying but there are lots of people who are buying not models to paint but game pieces. And having details on separate sprues is the best way to solve the problem for all parties - Cal
Yes and no, I have loved doing a lot of projects especially for this client. But this project was particularly painful because it wasn't fit to purpose if that makes sense. I don't mind all of the kill teams because they feel like they are meant to be super detailed and some of the times it's draining but mostly it was fun but this was a different story... - Cal
While I get the context, You have to look at it from GW stand point, Selling pre-painted things means less sales of primer, paint and brushes. And we all know they are about their money.
Sorry but I think your conclusions come from a problem that is very specific to you. As a casual player+painter+kitbasher can ask: Who on earth paints 3 sets of terrain on a time schedule (assuming you had one) and to such a detailed level ?! I personally painted two of those to a tabletop standard (2 tone airbrush, dry brush highlight and weathering with chipping medium). Splitting all that work into 2 sessions made it very enjoyable and rewarding. The moment I tried adding detail to screens I noticed it would stand out too much if it wasn't done everywhere. So obviously I decided to skip on the details. But I will always have an option to get back to it or give it to someone who wants to practice freehand on something insignificant (yet usable) since I am the owner of the terrain. You also did not mention the biggest issue with BA terrain which was the entire walls fitting. Making walls and pillar caps fit took by far most work hours and was the worst experience. So i would argue that the proposed solution of detail separated on greebles would make the assembly even more time consuming. As for the prepainted solution: well you would have to also accept an increased cost to what's already a seriously overpriced product. I do agree with the notion that detail creep exists but honestly think it's just a personal problem to which there are many solutions both in painting techniques and own standard adjustments. Obviously the viewpoint depends on the seating point but with all due respect I find the viewpoint of commission painters/youtubers quite hermetic in nature.
Exactly my thoughts, it's as easy or hard to paint this terrain (or most terrain) as you want it to be. Despite my own choice of painting the hard way (yeah it can be a grind, not doing that again), I personally think it also looks great with a couple rattle can colours and taking time for picking out trims with metallics. If you're not worried about the details being on it, then don't worry about picking them out. More sprues just adds build time, filing walls was shit already. Easy way for anyone to paint it in a day (or week if you don't have much time): Rattlecan basecoat whatever main colour, zenithal from above with a contrasting colour. Done. If you can be bothered making it look better, drybrush to hit all raised edges and then do metallics.
You guys should definitely get some experience painting MDF terrain. Their lack of detail and texture often times makes it slightly harder to paint. Guys "it's a you problem". Your suggestions would need way more work from GW which you just can't realisticly expect. You'll probably get either the same as now or just less detail in general. I'd prefer the level of detail. That being said: I absolutely don't understand what's forcing you to paint every single detail in the first place? leave some out...
Painter/lore-reader and unpopular opinion here. For me painting details are indeed central part of the hobby rather than a task. And I get your point (I really do), but what you are kind of ignoring here is that your average joe probably doesnt paint multiple kill team boxes in one run for a commission... Of course it takes time and patience according as how deep you want to get into different colors in details etc, but for me this is kind of the point. And for the same reason, regarding pre-painted miniatures: hell no lmao. I dont want to be gate-keeping here, if you want to play competitive with an army of only primed minis, so do you, but honestly... selling them pre-painted really hits the hobby's core, at least for me. Also maybe not the smartest idea if you are the one doing commissions... What I do agree on however is to distribute details on different smaller parts. Looks better, generally speaking, and is easier to paint. Again, this is obviously my individual opinion based on my personal approach of the hobby, but I kindly disagree with some parts of this video.
"but honestly... selling them pre-painted really hits the hobby's core, at least for me. Also maybe not the smartest idea if you are the one doing commissions..." This is something where I think we fundamentally differ. It's not about smarts its about honesty. I know lots of people who aren't painters. Games-Workshop splits us up into six different groups. You hit two of them in your first statement but painters is only one of them. People having access to pre-painted minis is going to bring more people into the game. I am not for what personally benefits me the most. I am for what is best for the hobby - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow ...and that is respectable of course. It just may be a matter of definition what is "best for the hobby" though. Surely, more hobbyists aka more customers is best for GW, but is this also necessarily best for their older customers if it means that established things need to be changed? This kind of reminds of many fans expressing both anticipation and fear for the upcoming amazon 40k production and what a potential international audience may come with - don't get me wrong though, Im one of those who don't care too much about female Custodes lol. I mean, sure, if we're talking about terrain parts, meh, afaik there even have been pre-painted parts (official GW products) in the past. But, I dont know, I feel like having a good looking army is kind of an achievement that requires some level of skill and/or patience. I myself will never be a Golden Demon winner and I don't really have a steady hand, but I make up for that by patience and a shtton of fixing mistakes. If you lack any of that (or the extra money to order commissions) and you don't want play with tabletop-ready, maaaaybe this hobby isn't ment for you? And yes, I hate myself to some extent realizing I actually have partially become the thing I hate the most, a filthy gate-keeper. But I can totally understand differing opinions/takes on this. As I said, these are my personal two cents, but it actually *is* my opinion, I have not seen anyone else commenting this, hence I think a little contra doesn't hurt. Peace
I think we fundamentally disagree and that's okay, people are allowed to disagree, doesn't make either of us lesser. "But, I dont know, I feel like having a good looking army is kind of an achievement that requires some level of skill and/or patience." I think this statement shows why preprinted models would be awesome. Because when someone shows up with the non-standard army people would see it as the achievement you suggest which it is! But so often people just poo poo peoples paint jobs now I see it everywhere. Where as the general audience is more like "damn man that looks amazing". Imagine instead of someone going ohhh your playing the old stuff, people are so used to seeing the prepaints that when you bring out your old school army people gather around and they are like woah where did you get these? And you can answer "Back in my day we didn't have prepaints we had to paint everything ourselves" I would rather welcome a new generation and see my commissioning stuff disappear if it means its a hobby I can introduce my kids to with joy not as a dying hobby. But if you disagree I think we can just end it with an agree to disagree - Cal
I am so sick and tired of RU-vidrs complaining about models being too detailed. If you actually enjoy painting models you want the detail. The only people who complain about models been too detailed those who are trying to rush the process.
Having recently picked up a bunch of old world models, even older stuff than the new releases, I can say it's much more enjoyable to paint when the models have less details. I can make it more my own, I can add to it, but it's horrible to paint some of this newer stuff.
That is not necessarily so. I paint a lot of models from 1985-1990, and while often less detailed then more modern models, they usually win out in visual clarity. They are more "readable", have a cleaner silhouette and better defined components with less clutter. This is not an issue of "rush", but of visual clarity. Also, a flood of detail often leaves no room for freehand patterns or similar.
Stop talking like "detail creep" is a thing. It is not. It's just an excuse for people that are not willing to paint their stuff anyway to blame the minis and not themselves.
this seems like such a non issue, if you don't want to paint all the details, don't and next time someone asks for character lvl scenery say no, job done.
So that’s the reason why I’m so fascinated by Oldhammer! Back then it’s more about “go build something fun” less “buy this official plastic spur”. And they have cardboard terrain!
That's not oldhammer, you young whippersnapper! Cardboard terrain?!?! You kids don't know you're born. In my day, back in t' crazy days of 1st and 2nd, if you wanted terrain you built it from scratch out of plastic bottles and bake bean tins. Hell, some of us even built our own VEHICLES because gw hadn't produced a model for it. Kids these days... 😂
@@peterclarke7240 I’m confused, I thought the second edition box set came with cardboard terrains? I know some old timers strictly consider only rogue trader as Oldhammer.
@@kail4997 WE DO NOT MENTION THE 2ND EDN CARDBOARD TERRAIN!!!!! It was comically flimsy and looked cartoonish. Most of us binned it and carried on building our own.
Definitely with you on keeping the details on a separate sprue. It solves so many issues with the terrain from ability to paint it, customization (so you don’t clearly see that this is the third iteration of wall 1A on the board), and hedging off the 3rd party retailers. Heck, GW could even sell the detail sprue as a stand alone kit. I really see no downside with this
You took the words right out of my mind. Customization is a great feature when you have so many wall pieces, really hate to have more then 2 that looks alike.
@@darklordofcaliban3551 Isnt this already happening with 3d printing? like all those guys ( maybe me included with my outdated grey knights i just got) hta need to kidbash their armies to make proper new versions of the marines. Or this made models ( that sometimes look really goofy, just saw one to grey knights that made me nearly puke) so that the terminators are as big as terminators and not smaller then the new marine models... but yeah scanning those terrains and reusing them is a thing I would do for a 100%, like I get to print ur won armies and not giving greedy gw ur money, but tbh i rather would pay for units then those highly inflated prices for terrain, like legit I could do sth nicer with sticks green stuff and some garbage.....
This is why I love old hand modeled minis, they don't feel like a 3D model from a videogame exported to real life, but like actual sculptures. There is less detail creep and more expression.
Part of the reason I'm still running Tacticals in modern 40k. They may be a statistically inferior unit, but they have SO MUCH MORE personality than the generic "cool guy from CoD" poses the Intercessors come in. That's another reason I loved Indomitus so much, it's like it was one last awesome breath before sinking into the monotony you see on display now. 40k doesn't feel like Dark Souls in space anymore. More like "Star wars but the lightsabers are chainsaws and Darth Vader is viewed from the Imperial Perspective. -Also an average dude."
The level of detail on GW's Space Marines crept up over the years. When they released the Primaris Marines many complained about how they were too plain. Lately, GW has been introducing larger upgrade kits. Now people will complain about the cost of the upgrade kits. I prefer having relatively plain line troops and more detailed characters. For my Gallowdark terrain, I am considering using a dimly lit approach using a black base, red drybrush and orange drybrush on the various sculpted light sources. My thinking is that only the barest minimum of emergency lighting remains. Limiting my color palette will speed up the work. I am looking for playable terrain that provides a good backdrop for my minis. Alternately I could go for green tones with yellow for the light sources for something resembling a night vision feel. With just two boxes of the walls plus the Soulshackle add-ons it will still be a big project due to having to mask all the connection points. I hope I bought enough masking tape.
Another benefit to keeping those recesses on a separate sprue, it means the hobbyist gets to choose if there's windows or no windows in their terrain. Windows have been a contentious topic in the gaming section of the hobby before. It has to do with line of sight and if the windows which are purely for aesthetics on some terrain pieces also allow for LOS. Being able to plug those holes at will solves all that and simplifies what should be classified as obscuring terrain and what shouldn't. And like you said, it's not like GW didn't know how to do that because *that's pretty much how the doors work.*
As always thanks for your comments ShockArc! And yes I actually didn't even consider the point about Line of Sight you are totally right on that. Just today, we went to the Warhammer store and there was model of the month going on and we sat down with some people and constructed the latest Dark Angel terminator model and the conversation of not wanting to paint a model as detailed as that was initiated naturally by the others and I learned that apparently GW used to do this in the past, they used to keep details and options on a separate sprue and they just aren't doing this anymore for some reason... ~Sunny
You're telling me Gamers and Warhammer Fans can be super pedantic? no... say it isn't so, we wouldn't have read comments which lead us to believe such things ever... - Cal
looks interesting, and their are lots of 'versions' of this style of painting. I think one of the best I saw was paint brass drybrush steel which looks much more 'standard' than that scheme presented. Client requested it was done up like the bases we had been doing for them and thus why we had our scheme have a good one - Cal
Detail is excellent for faster painting styles. Like oil washes and slapchop. This is why I prefer lots of detail; its easier to paint! Big flat areas are much harder to paint because you have to add in the detail, like streaks or moss or posters or similar.
Some really detailed minis I thought I would love I end up hating. Because I for one am not skilled enough to maximize that detail. And secondly I got tired. Some of the simplest minis are my favorites.
The idea is good, the fundamentals are wrong, I don't think that tabletop quality is the definition you gave at all, also you took this job and understimated the work for doing model like quality, some people would be super happy to have a console all rusted and the same color as the walls and call it done
This is why i prefer frostgrave, Oathmark, Stargrave and a few other minis, there's enougn details to signify what they're representing (weapons and armour and stuff) but there aren't rivets on armour or safety switches on guns. If we want that on a special character or something we'll paint it ourselves
I really think you should join as a member my dude because... you are going to love the next one and I think you may want to be in early for it 😉 - Cal
The into the dark terrain set is not fun. I painted 1 box and had the exact same experience. After half of the pieces I just gave up on doing every little detail and the rest of the monitors and other skit I skipped. In the future I would like terrain pieces that are more simple to paint. Not neccecarly less detailed but just easier. Think of the ship design in Star Wars, like a star destroyer or the Death Star. They are covered with small details but all same colours. Would love to have the a into the dark terrain peice that was like that. Simple spray of base coat, wash + drybrush and it would look good.
Yeah I think for example the people we talked about Dungeons and Lazers the lazers part of their stuff is great fantastic! I really like it, does exactly what we are talking about - Cal
Part of the reason I dislike Primaris marines. (apart from them being such an obviously corporate maneuver) Do I think the Indomitus Box set is the pinnacle of Marine design?- (Unless the suppressors showed up there, lol) -Yes, absolutely. Did I 3D print some truescale Firstborn models and immediately sigh in relief seeing so many flat, undecorated plates? Also, absolutely yes. It's just... as a 3-way Painter/modeller/gamer for multiple armies, it sucks to see a dude(ette) with a billion lil gadgets on his/her person because I'll be Doug Dimmadamned if I won't be tempted to paint- Every. Single. One. And this is on Troops(Battleline) units, mind you. Intercessors, with all these extra bits on their armor and dozens of overlapping plates. Yeah, it looks sweet when you do a good job, but... dang. being tempted and/or pushed to add HQ unit levels of detail to a guy that's gonna die within the first two turns, or advance twice and do nothing for the rest of the game is... I almost wanna say "insulting" ? HQ units or Elite units are fine having all the extra detail, bc they're typically centerpieces for an army anyway, but... yeah, hard agree. My biggest turnoff when it comes to painting is seeing a model with all these tedious little hoses and plates and vents and decorations... it's... It's like running an army of Sanguinary guard. I love the Bladeguard veterans, but they're the biggest offender in this regard. They look amazing when you paint them up fully, but that's gonna take a while. But if you paint them underwhelmingly, it shows SO BAD.
Yep, I had to quote high on some Blade Guard for a quote for doing a commission even for tabletop for that reason. Primarius Marines, nice no problem, them... different story - Cal
Detail creep... Couldn't have said it better. Detail creep is why I hate some of the Patreon mini creators, like Mini Monster Mayhem and Archvillain Games. I mean, sure, the sculpts are awesome, but for printing and painting, they are ridiculously overkill.
I totally get this. I dont mind the detail on my more elite armies like marines, but on swarm/horde armies like Tyranids and genestealer cults its just exhausting and feels so pointless. Thats why i mostly used old guard models for my genestealer cults.
I like your idea of having the inner panes as seperate sprues. I would actually do the inner parts, but I only buy so much terrain and keep using it over and over. With armies you are always buying more minis so I like less detail in those.
And then there are people like me. I believe sometimes less is more. Also sometimes the details on the mini doesn't fit the aesthetic that I'm going for, I'll end up chopping parts off just to add other parts. Hopefully with how games workshop released the Deathwing upgrade kit is a step in the right direction. Start with a blank Terminator and upgrade it to give the aesthetic as much or as little as one wants. This comes from someone that doesn't even play DA. Upgrade kits done in a similar way across the board would IMO be a welcomed idea. Win/win for big GW also as they get to sell the kits and not over produce entire model sets.
I dislike most newer GW minis. 1. They have made all the minis in drama student getting a new profile pic poses. 2. They added so many details that cutting them off is the best customisation option. 3.they made multi part kits that create monopose minis, you get extra work because it takes up less shelf space or saves GW money or whatever - I don't want an airfix hobby.
Know any cheap alternatives to the boarding action terrain? I want something that looks good but also isn't a pain to paint. I have neck problems and leaning over a table all day to paint details on miniatures is really actually painful.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow They don't. I need to figure out a solution. I might print out some or make cardboard place-holders. But yeah. The Sci-fi Starter set is door-less. Only open pass ways.
yeah I have been feeling that gw's terrain is getting too detailed to be a good backdrop for the miniatures that are meant to be standing in front of them. i get that they are putting extra detail in to distract us from how expensive it is but it doesn't change how over detailed a lot of it can be. I don't mind some detail but if it's over detailed it makes painting them a pain in the brush hand
having the terrain in a starter set be pre painted by automated process and not just have the be a printed cardboard tile or printed paper mat would be a great thing for beginners as it would reduce potential mental barriers to play while also subtly incouraging new players to paint their minis and thus probably buy paints off gw along with a few more miniatures
