Mystery Mauser - Haitian? Czechoslovakian? Or Not? 

A TRUE forgotten weapon.

Dude you should do a series called mystery gun Monday were people sending pictures of mystery guns and you try to identify them and then tell us their history

This is a completely unfounded theory, but it would make sense for a mid-late 1950s mystery rifle without clear manufacturer marks to be a weapon that was intended to go to Cuba. A rifle that was supposedly bound for Haiti would be easy to divert at the last minute to a neighboring island.

after years of working for the news media i can tell you it's an AK-47

It's a demonstration rifle by cz I own a mauser in 7mm made in Germany(all the prof marks are intact) with brizian crest on the front ring also the wood stock on my rifle is extra fine.like that rifle uselly a dead give away about that kinda thing.

Isn't 1957 just before Duvalier's dictatorship? It might be a potential contract that was lost due to a regime change.

Maybe a demo rifle for their military testing? Strange. It Is always interesting to see unique weapons

I am going to take a wild swing that this is a Yugoslavian sample gun. They had both piles of ancient surplus Mausers, as well as an active production line for them. The armourers at the factory took some blank/refurbished parts from the bin, engraved markings on them that signified only the general locations and sizes of markings that the customer might want on the gun and handed it over to the salesman. Hence, sample gun #10, Haiti 1957. Order never came, but a strange curiosity remained and found its way to the US.

If you figure this out, would love to see a follow up video.

Normally the mystery guns are crude Chinese or Khyber Pass mishmashes. This one is really nice!

A gun that Gun Jesus doesn't know about? *IMPOSSIBLE*

CIA plausible deniability purchase?

A gunsmith somewhere laughs his rear off when he sees his practice gun decades ago popped up in forgotten weapons

The thing that jumped out to me was that the "Haiti 57" marking looked like it was done with a set of Harbor Freight stamps, right down to the double strike on the 7. I can't buy the idea that it was a rifle for testing, surely the manufacturer wouldn't have marked it that crudely.

I obviously have no information on this rifle, but an attempt to hide the origin of the gun seems like the most likely explanation.

That bayonet lug appears to be right off a Chilean 1912

This thing looks like a vz.98-29 repeater rifle made in Brno , they made about 80000 for Persia in the 1930s. I do not recognize the markings,but the caliber and pattern look legit.

Its like when you go to a gun store and the tag says "Mauser? 7mm? Rifle? $700."

This is just my possible theory, but if it is a legitimate rifle and not a counterfeit, it could be it used to be a Polish Wz 29 (hence the 10’s for the factory in Poland), rearsenaled by CZ in Czechoslovakia in 1953 (CZ 29-53) for export service to Haiti as a police or security weapon, since I remember it was common practice even today in smaller countries for police and the military to use different weapons so they can’t use the same ammunition or parts as the other?

As a rifle. It is a weird one. Today, I would call it an E-bay Mauser, because it is cobbeled together by various different bits and pieces. Only part that is actually marked, is the rear sightblade, it is Argentine 1909.pattern (you can still see slight hint on Anchor marking). But rest of the rifle is not Argentine. Now possible historic explainasion.. It has Polish action. Early Long rifle stock, that also appears do have remains of Polish marking (X mark at the butt frist). Upper handguard actually looks like Argentine upper handguard (like the sightblade) Sling attachments are Yugo/FN style. So most likely, it is Yugoslavia Zastava refurbished of Polish KR WZ.98. What is, for some reason gotten upper-handguard and sightblade replacement. Now, is a it fake. Yes it can be. But Polish early wz.98 are not exactly cheap platforms, do base a fake on. Specially unknown and unheard Haitian fake. Now psudo-Historic take on the marking. Odds are, that who ever purchaced Zastava surplus, was american. That means Imperial units of measurement. So CZ29-53 could easily mean an import mark „Crvena Zastava - 29" barrel - Refurbished 1953.“ Calibre of the rifle is not really an issue. Because at the time Haiti was runned by a proper Lunatic. Who horded all sorts of firearms, in a fear of invasion by neighbour (what was runned by another, yet more effective and sound, lunatic). He actually bought several M3-Stuart tanks from one (unknown) armsdealer in Mediterranean area (who actually refurbished his goods), so Yugo is near and fits timeframe. In 1994 US intervention, alot of different weapons were captured. In most known calibres, including .303 SMLEs. At the same time it might be thoroughly faked. In this case, it is a Turkish Brno VZ.22 (they are cheap) with Argentine sightblade mounted do mask Turkish numbering on the sight. And sling attachment mounted in Yugo/FN/VZ.24 pattern and bolt stop from Polish WZ.29. It will reamain a „Mystery“, because due do hectic history of Central-America, nobody really know, where those millions of weapons, that keep flooding their markets are really from.

its a gun for sure

It's from an alternate dimension.

The dual sling thing and the X mark makes me think of an artillery Model instead of cavalry. Crew rifle hung across the back of the user.

Well, certainly CZ mausers had this set of sling swivels. They were distinctly on every CZ mauser. And there's also the marking on the right side of the gun which indicates that the gun had been made in Czechoslovakia (I suppose) before it was sent or sold somewhere. The crest is very much unknown to me even though I was looking realy hard in a book and on the internet.

I once owned a not unsimilar carbine Mauser. Yet scrubbed of all markings yet serial #68 on side of receiver and the turned down bolt. A short 17ish barrel. Identical bluing finish even the stock finish looks very close.

i think this rifle came from the Dominican Republic it has the country marking and date marking in the same location as this one. plus it is using the same style of stock as the Dominicans were producing at this time. i think the odd circles in the crest are Hibiscus the national flower of Haiti.

Could it be a private purchase for private concern like factory guards or plantation guards?

If Ian is stumped, we’ll probably never know. Ian is the Obi-Wan Kenobi for mystery guns: he’s our only hope. Seriously though, I am thoroughly intrigued by this mutt of a Mauser. Love “mystery gun” videos. Thanks for doing a video on it!

The CIA was active in Haiti during this time, but you didn't hear it from me! Seriously, there were lots of clandestine markings and guns of all types circulating through many parts of the world including the Caribbean during the Cold War. That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

Based on how crooked and inconsistency sized the letters are, I would guess this is a counterfeit CZ 29-53. Somebody probably took a cheap Mauser 98 pattern rifle and stamped some random symbols on it. Then they sold it at a gun show claiming it's a, "Rare Haitian CZ 29-53," to some schmuck who didn't know any better.

That gun is awfully clean for being nearly as old as I am (67). Even the strap looks unused- it has one spot where the buckle used to sit but none indicating the gun was ever worn over the shoulder or on the back, and the stock looks nearly new too. I think the strap was taken from another gun that was a display-only gun or got damaged. Were there any stamped or other markings on the strap? The top of the "7" in "HAITI 1957" is either a double strike or it was made with a damaged punch- the numbers and letters in that and the "CZ 29-53" marking don't quite line up- they both look to have been hand-stamped with different sets of stamps with different fonts. As others have mentioned the gun was blued *after* the markings were stamped. That's just... wrong. That double triangle marking definitely looks like a simplified Voudou veve. That *does not* prove the gun has anything to do with Haiti because it's not one of the major ones- it could be a made-up one to make the rifle more "authentic". It's not one well-known to be associated with the Tonton Macout. OTOH notice the crenellated circle on the bolt handle that's the same as those in the putative veve- that does lend credence to the Haiti connection because touching a veve or part of it reinforces one's devotion and helps ensure success, and you'd do that every time you chambered a new round. The mark you called an X next to the barrel band looks more like crossed bones. I wish you had been able to take it apart to look for other markings on the lower part of the barrel frinst. You didn't say if the owner at the time of the video had any information on its origin or history, from which I infer they had none. Damn shame, but nice mystery.

It has all the earmarks of a “sample” rifle for a proposed sale to a rebel army. Haiti was under some internal turmoil in 1957 with “Papa Doc” Duvalier assuming power in 1957. East-West loyalties were literally for sale to the highest bidder. CZ was under Soviet control so perhaps this was a sample of the “arms to be supplied if you join our side”. The CZ markings and “Haiti 1957” look to be marked after the rifle was final assembled. The “ crest” may be just in there to represent “something” but not be a specific crest. It is in too good of a shape to have been used. The Soviets wanted a country to colonize in the Carribean, I don’t think it mattered to them if it was Haiti or Cuba or ? Yeah

it must have been made by a large manufacturer with proper toolings. you can definitely tell by just looking at the finish

The strange crest? That is clearly an hourglass. This rifle must have belonged to a globetrotting time traveler!

A clue, and another guess.The recoil lug and lack of ID disk points to a replacement stock. The exact same lug (in the white with a small centering X) is found on Dominican Republic Brazilian DWM 1908 reworks. From WD Balls book “Mauser Rifle’s of the World”, p.67 “During the early 1950’s, the national arsenal reconditioned surplus Brazilian Model 1908 Rifles and Short Rifles, removing all Brazilian markings and restamping the weapons with Dominican markings.” They’re on the same island, the pattern of rifle fits. The markings, while not the same have congruent placement. Even the font and stamping style is similar (reference lower right picture on p.67). As neighbors, they would have had a vested interest in the goings on in Haiti, and it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility that this weapon was one of a small batch of test rifles from the Dominican arsenal to the then government of Haiti or another sympathetic private entity (militia) possibly as “dealer samples”. Chambered in 8mm as to not be as useful in a conflict between the two countries should one arise (also lots of surplus ammo on the market so as not to disrupt the logistics of their own army).

The cartouche is extremely interesting. Three 8-sided stars, situated around an hourglass with 8 lines. Someone clearly liked the number 8.

Crvena zastava was making mausers with wood around sight

The poor quality and non-standard of the Haiti marking compared to the other markings on this gun and the marking on the fn guns, the odd chambering, and non history of the gun could be explained by an attempted forgery.

well, it looks like some planet's stargate home symbol. it's extraterrestial in origin, you should ask the guys in cheyenne mountain about it, maybe.

3 stars means Bad pitting in rifling, the middle mark means not serviceable. It's a czechoslovak mauser that is no longer suitable for military service

Two thoughts......... First, the lack of factory markings on the receiver side might only be the result of the rifle having its original markings scrubbed off during a re-arsenal session. Second, are there any proof marks on it, like on the underside of the bolt handle or on the barrel in the vicinity of the rear sight (requiring removal of the hand guard to see)? The well known z inside a larger C would make original Cz manufacture even more likely.

It could be a very skilled gunsmith derping around in his shop after hours.

Those CZ and HAITI stampings seem pretty ugly under magnification. There's a significant uneven-ness to them (Especially "HAITI"; not to mention the double-stamped 7) that I don't think you'd see on an actual CZ rifle, or any factory work I've seen?

Looks alot like a Brazilian 1908 in style but chambered in 8x57IS and the finish looks like refurbished afterwards from blued or bright steel into that kinda paint-like surface. A very nice piece for being something that obscure and untraceable.

Just a thought, could CZ stand for Crenva Zastava. Zastava was involved in building Mauser rifles for a time.

The receiver marking reminds me of the 7th Infantry Division's "crushed beer can" patch...

That’s clearly an AR-1976 with a 500 capacity clippazine, that fires 2 million bullets in half a second. Clearly a ghost gun...

To me, the metal finish cleanly indicates it is a czech rifle. Of course someone else could make a rifle with that same reddish metal finish (on the bolt), but CZ is first to come to mind for that.

This thing looks like it was made, packed then lost in a warehouse. That thing is gorgeous.

The only marking that comes close to the receiver marking is the Tokyo hourglass, but the company that used that mark made bayonet's.

Wasn't Haiti fighting within its self in 1957? Between the republic and the Duvalier dynasty? so you might want to check who made arms for both sides of that conflict.

I've never seen a French sling (military issue) with that rolled line close to the sides. They are usually exempt of any imprint.

Gorgeous Excellent Condition Military 98 Mauser! Hope you can find out more about it!

Might be one of them Mitchell’s mausers :)

Would love to see the proof markings on the underside of the wood.

The receiver crest really does appear to be some sort of veve symbol from haitian vodou. Not sure why it's in 8mm but I do suspect the rifle is related to the Duvalier regime change

Crazy. Cool stuff!

could you make an updated vid on the Cei Rigotti rifle you made back in 2012 please?

The odd x on the stock is actually crossed cannons.

Someone made it with purposefully vague markings as a prank for future weapons historians.

i love mausers. such a good system and really nice looking

It looks exactly like the long version of the Austrian manufactured-Chilean mausers. I have a carbine version and the sights, barrel bands, sling attachment, long Mauser camber, straight bolt, style of stock- just about everything screams to me that this could be a Chilean test rifle. Again, I have a Austrian made Chilean Mauser (carbine version) and I am willing to show it to you if you want to

I can't find it in my book, was that a crest above the bolt knob? Maybe a part gun. Don't know but still cool.

The stock is in remarkable shape for a gun that's been around since the 50's.

That's one of the most beautiful mausers I've ever seen. I want it so badly

Perhaps it was a prototype for Hati from cz for some odd reason?, that's really odd, unless it's some kind of miss match

+Forgotten Weapons The crest resemble the tokyo hourglass marking. Probably has nothing to do with this rifle but that's the only hourglass shaped weapon marking i could find.

So great content

I don't know much about guns but I do have a degree in international relations. So Czechoslovakia in the 50's was very much behind the iron curtain and Haiti was very much still a Francophile country. In 1957 Haiti got a new president/dictator who had french influence, so the idea of Hait buying goods from the other side of the iron curtain, and the czechs being allowed to trade with the other side to me sounds suspect. Also by 1957 this is very much an obsolescent weapon, Haiti was close to the US and a founding member of the UN i'd expect them to have easier access to M1 Garands from US, MAS 36 from France or even state of the art FN FAL. So an old Mauser from a country their not allied with doesn't make any sense. I could be very wrong, but who knows??

Late comment but the rabbit hole i would follow is the eight pointed star and start with the french foreign in Morocco and later being reissued in Haiti as some trade deals opened up in the mid/late 50's. I'd love hear what you guys think. Thanks

look on the barrel (underneath the handguard), this is just a phantasy rifle

thanks for making this video

I think very small projects and runs especially covert ones are probably more common than we think

It was a Mauser 1903 export pattern with some weird marking

2:35 that x mark would not be a artillery unit badge? As in two cannons?

Damn. Thats a beautiful rifle

Were there any arms embargoes going on at that time that this could have been trying to skirt?

Is it possible to be some sort of private gunsmith conversion, since caliber is not matching Haiti was using, mysterious crest, confusing CZ markings?

Strange. I have no idea. Leaning towards a trials rifle. Did Haiti have any sort of rifle trial in that timeframe?

Given how little information, and how contradictory is, there is I'd be inclined to analyse the materials themselves for clues. Anything unusual about the wood? What type is it, any date able rings available?

The central receiver stamp could just be a large "X" with a few lines added. The "X" usually indicates a SU captured gun in WWII.

That crest looks so bizarre

Maybe it was a sample or for military testing?

Maybe one day we'll find the cryptid of fire-arms. A mysterious and unique weapon with no explanation that would change everything if true.

Did you take the action out of the stock? Could there be more marking there?

Something that poped into my head for this rifle is it may be a police gun, or other such official Haitian group.

may it be something like yugoslav M.24/52č - Reworked Czech vz. 24 rifles (previously known under the designation M.24Č / M.24A / M.24a) in overhaul program similar to M24/47 beginning in 1952

I have seen this symbol somewhere, but I just don´t know where! Tried Google for anything with three 8-pointed stars, an hourglass or two opposing triangles - nothing!

I actually found a picture of some soldiers with stahlhelms and mauser rifles, named as "the stahlhelm in latin america after wwii", so, this rifle is likely to have been owned by the haitian army somewhere after wwii You can find it by browsing "haitian army emblem" in google. This is not an evidence, but can help us following the trail of this rifle.

Wasn´t Duvalier throw his weight around, and threatened to get weapons from Eastern Bloc? Maybe they procured some Czech weapons anyway?

It's been 2 years, has anyone made any progress?

I'm sure it was for testing or comparing. The date could be a rebuild date?

I think it’s a VZ 24, I have the exact same rifle with the Bolivian crest chambered in 7,65 x 54, veteran of the Chaco war in the mid ‘30s. Maybe this one was sent to Haiti for trial…

No mention or pictures of any markings, if any, under the wood?

DANG, that crest us AMAZING

Are there anyother markings underneath the stock?

My bet is that they were trying to smuggle them somewhere that was internationally embargoed. If they got pulled over by a blockade they’d just point to the markings. No idea where that might be tho

This is the kind of thing I subscribe for!

"Ian's version of clickbait" I first thought. But no we get a legit forgotten weapon.

I have an older looking version of this rifle that I bought and to me I have no clue whether if it's a Haitian or Czechoslovakian. it does however have rounds from 1937 bronze and silver tipped rounds and current day hunting rounds.