Mystery Shotgun With a Very Unusual Action 

Αh...yes! ....the chosen one, no one knows where it came from, lord presents it and warm welcomes it....

Obscure and weird French gun, it needs the full trinity to count for the exception.

Red Power Ranger! Dab!

I bet Ian says that to all the obscure French guns

Rofl. True. Very true.

It's pretty interesting but also not practical at all, especially compared to modern pump-actions. For this model, as you cock the bolt back and then push it forward to reload the chamber, it requires you to reposition your right hand. This can be awkward for aiming. But wait, it gets worse. As you push it forward and lock it back in to battery again, there's a chance that your finger may accidentally bump the trigger while doing so, causing an accidental discharge. In the heat of the moment, this may be more likely than you think. The only solution to this is to remove your index finger from the trigger loop, which is even more awkward.

@@arnox4554 And perhaps the most dangerous situation is if you decide not to shoot and you still have to pull the trigger to unload the gun. Very "clever " 😜

@@oscarjosefsson9300 Where the safety comes in .

@@richardsolberg4047 Oh yes! That thing also gave me basically zero confidence! 😜

Ah I am not the only one good to know lol

It would be very balanced. Check out the Italian Cosmi shotgun.

This isnt uncommon... I can think of quite a few rifles from the 60s and 70s that had stock based tube magazines.

@@roadsweeper1 Seems that it was also quite common in the mid-late 1800s as well.

@@joshkamp7499 problem is these systems tended not to work all that well, and paradoxically had too much capacity so it was near impossible to reload it expediently

Sam Holdsworth Quite cheeky lol

man invented a gun that cannot be unloaded with out holding the striker and pulling the trigger on a loaded chamber... Whats the potential for error there? imagine a pump where to free the slide you had to flip a lever and squeeze the trigger.

Cosmi armi.

you should see the weird over under he reviewed a few years ago. that one was also cool

@@musunator that side opening one?

@@pbgd3 there's also the breach loading one, the bullpup one etc. Who knows which one they meant

If gun Jesus dont know the maker, then it mean the gun just materialize from thin air. Probably in europe between 1850 and 1920.

If I was a betting person I'd say 1915-1929 it has a very ww1 attempt to improve the pump shotgun feel. But given the fact it has a civilian style strap it most likely is post war in my unprofessional opinion.

Immaculate conception gun jesus style. Tis the season.

This was Avery fun comment :)

thats Avery gay self-reference bro

I highly doubt that shotgun was anyone’s “weapon”, they probably had a revolver or 1903 or something for his defensive needs

@@308dad8 I suggest you look up the definition of weapon.

@@sambolino44 I suggest you do. A weapon is any item used to hurt someone. This is a shotgun, not likely ever used to hurt anyone.

@@308dad8 You can hurt someone with a shotgun.

@@jd_the_cat You can hurt somebody with a hammer too. What’s your point? You gonna get a CCW to carry a hammer around with you?

could very well be. to me it would make more sense to have the magazine on the front end of the gun, if it indeed is gravity fed. pointin the muzzle up for reloading is much more practical than pointing it down. especially when this is a somewhat long shotgun for hunting. it'd be difficult to reload if you were crouching etc.

I was kinda thinking that too. Would certainly be a simpler design with no follower or spring

@@apple_with_a_human_butt Also there's a chance you could accidentally shoot yourself in the foot

Pointing it down would be safer to reload though, any accidental discharge is just going into the ground, rather than up into the air. Its standard 'good weapon handling' to always keep the muzzle under the horizon (and preferably at the ground somewhere in front of you) until your going to pull the trigger

This design looks like a visit to a hospital.pulling the trigger to do any thing other than fire it definitely a bit nerve racking 💀

I still I don't understand how it would feed, as a shell has to arrive at the front to be chambered when you have pumped all the way back.

I wonder if there is enough room for the next shell to "live" below the bolt while it has a shot in battery. That way it would be sitting ready when the pump is drawn back, and as it's chambered the next one is pushed into the elevator

Similar but almost completely different from those penguins stair toys (just what my brain made the connection to)

@@juanordonezgalban2278 ratcheting hooks which drop below the cartridge rim when cycled, then move one way (forward).

@@TorquilBletchleySmythe but a shell would be pumped forward while the bolt is still opening, and I don't see whether it would fit that way.

maybe they never made it work that well and thus forgot about it.

Yeah, honestly I could easily see this, perhaps in not our world, but some alternate one, tweaked to be a very efficient and compact combat purpose shotgun.

Also to close the action you slam the trigger forward, at which point its ready to rock. So your choices are either to totally change your grip awkwardly after each shot, or keep your finger next to the trigger while shoving a round into the chamber. I kinda wonder if this idea never took off because it was just too sketchy, everything about it is kinda sketchy lol

I can imagine that any serious wear or damage to the locking system would cause the case to be blow-back ejected, pushing the whole of the trigger/bolt assembly, etc. with it. I think that would hurt.

Thank God Alec Baldwin didn't have access to one of these.

@@skeetsmcgrew3282 My thought was the same as some of some of the other commenters. That's probably the defining "feature" of this weapon. You can slam fire it, but it's guaranteed to be in battery, and the striker is what's doing the work. So, you also don't have to worry about not slamming it closed hard enough.

Also note that it "conveniently" un-safes itself in the course of re-closing the chamber.

same here man!

@@Sawer Likewise, you guys are cultured Kiwis! :)

@@Demour77 oh im actualy from the Netherlands xD

Same. From Canada. Didn’t think I would get hooked on this channel but here I am.

They get stuff that works well then put it in a different spot that no one else does

Naaa? only ends BAD! Gramps fought and flew for Every Allie! And "the french!" as an American boy, paid his own pilots lic, joined the RCAF, then RAF and the USAC for the Battle of Brittain the D Day! and the END!

actually, that kind of twist safety was quite common on a LOT of rifles. Both the Nagant and the Enfield use a similar system, as did a lot of bolt action rifles post ww2. The notch needs to be made a tag bigger, but the overall theory behind it is sound.

@@roadsweeper1 I honestly think that no one uses the safety on Mosins. They are a bear to get engaged.

Same thing I'm thinking, shoot, look at the bird that fell, keep gun vaguely down, pull the now a lever trigger guard back, wait for clack, push forward again.

@@GundamReviver Could also be recoil operated, when the gun kicks backwards, the shells are moving forward inside the mag and are cached by a hook in front of the mag.

Makes you wonder if it would function better if there was a grip to push/pull on.

Alec Baldwin type of gun

You don’t need guns with your trusty crowbar.

my 870 does that......had Winchester 62 clone that would do the same.....lol i thought all pump-actions did it.

Yup.. riot style was good for the era... to be frank it would be ok today if people were more responsible...

@@janwitts2688 I thought it was common sense not to hold the trigger down while cycling the action unless you want to slam fire lol

Though, don't some manually operated rifles also slam fire? Because slam fire guns basically have full auto triggers which are more simple than semi-auto ones.

@@unhippy1 how does your 870 do that?

I am of this writing 72. My father's father, Jessie Daniel was sent to apprentice in NYC to learn smithing / firearms and return to Ireland. He ended up in Red Bay Ala. A long story in it's self. After his passing his six sons deeved-up his best pieces little was left for the grandsons. I received a 10 gauge shotgun very similar to this shotgun except for the gauge.The power in his shop was provided by a Ford model A. belted to numerous tools.

Is there any way you could get it to a historian or Ian himself so the whole world may see?

i use arch btw

@@yobart t. luke smith

Ian mentioned in a video somewhere that he would like to do something like this (pretty sure it was a Q&A from a while ago in reference to taking high quality photographs) and I believe he said he couldn't due to the time constraints he has while filming. He typically films 5-6 videos in a single session over the course of about a day and having the time to take photographs of everything would ruin his scheduling process. I would personally love to see scans of the many firearms he has seen before but I don't believe that's going to be on the cards anytime soon.

Pffff the original SPAZ shotgun would sometimes fire when u put the saftey on. It's a feature

Don't you take away may freedomz!

Alec Baldwin would disagree.....

@@TheWolfsnack OH! Did his guns trigger double as a mechanical dissasembly?

I can easily see the breech being unlocked during firing by a vigorous pull of the trigger. Or a round going off while intending to open the breech.

at 7:15 is shows that when you start to pull back the external slider it appears to pull back the striker as well. so in theory it shouldn't be able to fire out of battery.

@@justindunlap1235 yes but you pull the trigger to open it, and with a live round in the chamber that means it will shoot whatever its facing while you are trying to unload it

@@ParaFox404 9:08 they did take that into consideration though. i suppose they're really counting on the operator to remember to engage safety. not a gun person but i suppose engaging safety before unloading a gun would be the default procedure?

@@wytfish4855 Even when it is, you can't really rely on human intelligence.

@@wytfish4855 it is a gun that requires attention for sure and I think it would be fine if you practiced with it, the safety could be a little sturdier but it is a proven system on stuff like the mosin, the problem is just human error, like forgetting to put a seatbelt on, or take the handbrake up or other relatable things you would forget like uhhhhhhhh anyways the trigger being shoot and also unload is a problem because of that, I guess video games also work like a console game has multiple things on the same button sometimes you do something you didn't mean to do while trying to do something else if you get muscle memory confused or skip a step in your head, or just dont click the safety properly you pull the trigger to a loaded gun, inexperienced people might not even have it pointed in a safe direction either Dont get me wrong I find this gun super cool and interesting but in terms of general safety if this was ever remade a seperate slide release would be way better, however this design is far simpler and probably cheaper to make anyways Its just super neat

Luigi Grabmyass was the son of the famed Elbonian inventor Marcel Shitsonfloor

Oh yes, Grabmyass, that guy. His grandson Invented the ejection seat for helicopters...

@@ducomaritiem7160 you mean the downward ejections seats commonly found in the Elbonian VTOL conversion of the P-51 Mustang?

And tested by Elbonian chief weapon tester, Bluey Zarsoff

I almost googled the name...

Murphy's law, rephrased: Design to account for absent minded operators.

It would certainly be mechanically possible to add an additional lever to unlock the action without doing anything to the sear. That would mean you could fire the thing and cycle it normally, but if you wanted to cycle it without having to have it pointed downrange, you could do so.

Strange there isn't any information about this gun, it's really too good to be some backyard project.

@@hanelyp1 You can’t be absent minded around firearms. Natural selection is king. If you idiot-proof something, the world just invents a better idiot.

Any kind of firearm is a deadly threat to the user and everybody and everything around them if they're being absent-minded or not paying attention. When operating a firearm, you do not have the luxury of day dreaming or half assing it, it is a deadly weapon and your focus should be 110% on the firearm.

And "safe" too. That's what the crazy action is for. It will always fire, and won't fire out of battery.

Exactly what I was thinking, but if it is gravity fed like some are saying it might be, then that spoils the idea

"Luckily, lately the French are getting more willing to speak english"... If you are really that interested, shouldn't you be the one learning their language rather than wait for them to learn yours, don't you think?

@@19Edurne Nope, that would be utterly insane since I'm Danish 🤪 only a radical fan of viking history might even consider that and if they did I'd suggest they go for Icelandic or Faroese in stead. I speak English because the world is larger in English, it's where we all meet regardless of national origin. The French are catching up to that fact, and we'll all benefit. I love the French and their culture as I do Tanzanians and the Greek, I'm not learning all of their languages in one lifetime, I'm not even going to bother trying. Also, I've had several years of French in school, I've tried communicating with it in France, Morocco and Rwanda with *very* little success even though I'm not particularly bad at learning languages, so it is definitely not something the French can reasonable expect everyone to do before you ask about interesting stuff :) But I'm sure Ian's efforts to learn French has helped and will help open doors...*especially* since he's American, he will be teased for his accent but also gain a ton of respect for trying. But he is having to single French out for preferential treatment to get it, he isn't likely to learn Danish, say.

@@19Edurne Did the Norman French take Anglo Saxon lessons ? If there is now a worldwide push to learn English,the use of French as the international European diplomatic language is of historical interest only.Don't get me wrong,learning another language is crucial to learning your own. I literally do not know how many functional languages there are worldwide. Listening to the Hu band interests me in Mongolian. Not enough to learn the language, but perhaps a few words. I am currently trying to learn Farsi. The effort reminds me of just how many hours it took for me to learn French. It is an enormous effort as an adult. Those who know state it takes about 10 years to be able to speak Latin well. I suspect that is probably true for any sophisticated comprehension of any language. How many people are willing to make 10 years effort to learn something they do not use very often ? Like it or not,English,which is a maddening language, is now the international choice of communication.

You could learn to read the language in twelve months of study. There are many books published in French that don't get translated.

@@uncletiggermclaren7592 But most *do* get translated, especially important works. And you can't read everything even if you wanted to. You may in fact be able to learn French to a level roughly equivalent to using Google translate in one year, but it'd be a lot of work and leaves out every other language, of which there are hundreds of relevant ones, and also AI translation is likely to improve faster than you can learn very soon. Or depending how you look at it, already is since it's learning every language at once. So, to me learning a language is passé unless you live in the country for more thana few months or have that fanatical interest in something that motivates it - like Ian's obsession with French guns.

He definitely has his contacts on his website

@@t.104 which website? because on the merch website, the only contact address is related to the merch shop and ordering and such.

@@tyrionas he says his website at the beginning of each video. It's in one word, forgottenweapons

@@t.104 there is only a physical address, but I can't send the pictures by physical mail, that would be silly

@@tyrionas RU-vid tries to delete it, but the email is admin @ and then the website address

C&Rsenal discussed them in relation to the development of the Mosin-Nagant, helpfully illustrated with a set of toy penguins. It's difficult to explain the role the penguins play in the explanation, but I swear it makes sense in context.

Pretty sure I’ve got a belt style conveyor in my buttocks. Edit: OH.... Butt stock... right, my bad.

The evans carbine?

@@sawyere2496 no, that's a helical mag with a rotating follower.

The exact reason I suspect this particular design didn't go far. Otherwise, in proper working order, it may be a very nice design.

It's a perfect type of gun for filming trigger happy Alec Baldwin's movies...

@@jrvgwagner I briefly considered a comment about Mr. Baldwin but decided it would be in bad taste. However, I recently watched The Hunt for Red October. The instant Scott Glen hands Baldwin a 1911, he promptly swept Glen’s abdomen with his finger on or very near the trigger. Maybe I was imagining it but it seemed like Glen flinched just a tiny bit.

I don't think that euro customs would know the difference and maybe even at the US because you're allowed to check guns as luggage but not ammunition

@@itsreallyjustmehere611 yes, but most commercial snap caps are red, clear, plastic

More importantly IMO, you have to force the trigger forward to load the next round. It does appear as though once a round is loaded that the only way to remove it is to shoot the gun, unless I misunderstood something. A unique if not a bit reckless design

Indeed, it is very similar to this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HXvmGtLYwKA.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons

Several other early "semi-self-loading" firearms went full tacticool by using the trigger to serve multiple functions. I just saw a Primer episode on a revolver that used the trigger to advance the cylinder with a firing pin disconnect for loading and unloading.

@@AM-hf9kk that's interesting! Were there any issues raised concerning safety in these firearms?

@@sebastiencausse4152 As I recall, the main objection was "We can give these to the rank and file. They'll go through ammo too fast!"

There have been other mystery shotguns, yes. Weather they were like this one, I am not quite certain.

It looks very similar to the Roper repeating shotgun. Edit: it also looks simmilar to a Burgess folding shotgun.

@@thejayman1886 He mentioned the Burgess at the start of the video.

@@jic1 I know.

Probably be easier to use a one way ratchet system (kind of like the internal mechanism of a zip tie) where the angle allows a shell moving forward (or the slide rod Ian mentioned moving back relative to the shell) to temporarily depress the little pawl while the shell slides past; but it then springs back behind the lip of the shell it to prevent movement rearwards. I'd think 2 sets of them, one set on the slide rod that cycles back and forth one shell length to bring the shells towards the chamber, and one set that remains stationary to prevent any rearward movement of the shells while the slide rod's in motion. That way you don't have to mess with replacing belt links.

All the best things are...

especially lacking in the firearm safety department. xD

@@proCaylak Best safety is to always point the thing where an accidental discharge won't matter.

@@ommsterlitz1805 Unless you intend to kill him.

The Remington Nylon has the same type of magazine system you described

Your description reminds me of the follower spring on a Spencer. Drop the rounds into the magazine tube nose-first, then push the follower in after them.

or it's gravity fed and you tip it down to reload it... it's not always complicated.

@@kingjames4886 But that would be a really bad reloading system

Yeah, it seems like it was one of those ideas that seemed bright in the moment but the maker realized later the problem... Perhaps that may have been what canned this "prototype" if it is one.

Just think of what it could do if you pulled the trigger with enough force to release the action as you fired it. my trigger finger doesn't bend that direction willingly...

manual safety was rotating the bolt 8:40