Um, depression freaking sucks so please be merciful in the comments. 🖤🖤 I don't even know how I even managed to get this one out. Looking forward to never looking at it ever again.
I wholeheartedly agree with the points you made, and I'm glad at least some reviewer got this because almost everyone is like... "that is such a Spider-man thing to do". They needed this premise to make the movie enjoyable and to soft-reboot the franchise. I get that. I can even excuse that. It just bugs me that they tricked everyone into thinking that the premise is flawless and in-character for Spider-man, when it is neither of those things.
I really hope people actually listen to what you are saying and not just trash the video thinking you are tearing down something they loved. Because you are right: this isn't a conventional movie. It is a two and a half hour nostalgia candy bar. It doesn't give us seven characters from a previous trilogy - it gives us seven characters that never existed in this form, twisted around juuuuuuuuust enough to make the plot work. And it does the same thing to the MCU's Spider-man and Dr. Strange. To enjoy No Way Home you have to accept the premise that the man who allowed himself to be sacrificed because of what the time stone showed him would ever cast a spell that would mess with the minds of everyone in existence. You have to ignore the fact that Octavius never knew Osborn was the Green Goblin, or that Marko knew they both died fighting Spider-man 'because it was on the news' (also: if it was on the news what does that do to the plot of Spider-man 3?). You have to ignore the fact that electric formed Electro loses his powers and turns into Jamie Foxx instead of Max Dillon and can't be bothered to even sound like the character we saw before. And so on. Some people can do that and that's great! Because those people aren't looking for a narrative that makes sense. They want something to take their mind off of things for a few hours and fill it with a few incredible images. To the people that can do that parts of Far From Home feels like a warm hug. Disney weaponizes people's memories of characters or events they love to elicit an emotional response regardless of the cost to the story at hand. They've been doing it for years now with their remakes and their MCU / Star Wars movies. I feel that No Way Home is similiar to The Force Awakens: a film that has a goal (remake A New Hope but with new characters supported by legacy characters) and will do anything in service of that goal regardless of the cost to the story or franchise. For example: we are supposed to believe that the Millennium Falcon sits on a planet where people scavenge for parts to sell for money...with it's access ramp open and ready to launch? And hasn't been touched for any period of time at all? Of course we are, because if we can make that leap we are immediately rewarded with Han and Chewy! Our old friends! Shut up nerd, why do you care about things like unlocked space car doors? Because things MATTER. Plot matters. Consistency matters. That's why No Way Home's goal of 'live action Spider-verse using the films from the past' works for a lot of people but fails for others. They didn't do the work to create a narrative that holds up to even the smallest bit of scrutiny. But they did put Tom, Andrew and Tobey on screen together spider-quipping™ and webbing up something that looks like the villains of old. People are free to enjoy whatever they want for whatever reason and I'm thrilled when people like movies or TV shows. But it doesn't change the fact that Disney's output has changed and a lot of the industry is following along. We aren't getting new and interesting stories as much as we used to. Instead sometimes we get spoon fed emotional moments we've already had coated in CGI syrup. And that is unfortunate because studios could be making so much more with how much money they throw at these things. But no, we get safe products instead of groundbreaking films and TV shows. Ghostbusters: Afterlife instead of Ghostbusters Go To Hell. Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker instead of Star Wars: Duel of the Fates. The Book of Boba Fett (with special guest: the first two episodes of The Mandalorian, Season 3). I hope your depression gets better, and thank you for what you are doing here on RU-vid.
The most implausible thing for me was Dr Strange agreeing to cast an exceedingly dangerous, potentially universe threatening spell, just to help Peter get over his short term teenage angst.
they made his char. comedy relief in nwh,imprisong him in his own mirror dimension using plot power.vIf it wasnt for Benedict Cumberbatch to improv 'We' would have no memory of you at the end,i m like tf writers were thinking if he didnt cared for him y would he perform the spell in the first place.
To be honest, when Aunt May said "With great power comes great responsibility" I half expected Peter to say "now you sound _just like_ Uncle Ben." It was established when he was talking to Tony way back in _Civil War_ that he'd been through the death of Uncle Ben due to his inaction and had learned the "take responsibility" lesson.
Maybe the whole "we should redeem these villains before sending them back" narrative should've been spearheaded by the other two Spider-Men? Tobey wants a chance to save the father of his best friend as a way of atoning for Harry's death, as well as save Otto, a man who he looked up to. While Andrew wants to save Max, as well as save Dr. Connors. It would've made more sense.
Nope no time to make our movie that costs hundreds of millions of dollars make sense just get excited for next product god this movie was shit everything about it editing, soundtrack, acting, of course the cgi, and writing literally everything was bad the only reason this exists is for the three spidermen to steal ticket money from everyone
I do have to agree. I found the start and middle of the movie to be mid. I really liked the ending with the 3 spidermen and green goblin and may’s death. I did think that there were too many villains. Plus dr strange not being as smart ad normal. I think that there was so much hype over the movie, with the reveal of the 3 spidermen. All the kids at my school were asking each other if they saw no way home. The imdb ratings were through the roof.
@@frogglen6350 You have replied several times in this vid's comment section. And all your replies makes me think you are either a studio executive or a dishonorably fired Sony staff or a Marvel PR intern. In any case, you should reply more often as I really enjoy reading them.
I didn't really give my opinion on this movie to my friends because they all were treating it like a masterpiece. All I said to them was I think it'll be interesting to see how people view this movie once the hype and nostalgia wear off. I think you hit the nail on the head.
This movie can't stand up by itself. It is full of forced references. I also don't understand the villains motivations in this movie... Do you remember why electro became evil ? Why is he evil in this movie too ? By saving the villains of other spidermen, it will change the reallity of each spiderman, the movie didn't try to bring this up, but this is what could destroy the universe.
@@cringyhuman3210 cus he fought alongside the villains that spiderman was trying to help before sending them home. Which Sandman should’ve just helped spiderman capture the villains… so that he could go home..
Well, I mean, all movies rely on some level of suspension of disbelief. How much the audience is willing to do that for a particular movie relies on the writing, acting, directing, etc. If you're movie has a poor script, for example, people won't suspend their disbelief....or maybe they will for a short time (it's what's called "fridge logic"). No Way Home relies heavily on nostalgia rather than a sharp script. Nostalgia so potent that it covers for almost all of the film's flaws..
“Let’s just risk killing everyone for these random strangers we met earlier today who are probably gonna be sentenced to life in prison if not death for their crimes in their home universe anyway. Ignore the experience sorcerer who knows what he’s talking about, he’s wrong,”
@@scottchaison1001 yeah of course, I just exaggerated for a laugh. It's like if someone is saying "no one watched that movie" because it didn't make a lot of money, yet of course some people have watched it
To be honest, the script of this film seemed bad to me even at the first viewing. Everyone simply ignored the fact that it was a set of ideas not very well stitched together, with Peter making decisions he would've not made and things happening only because the plot needed them to. All the reviewers were afraid to talk about it, because the film was idolized and admired by a huge audience. I'm glad that someone finally adresses its problems, too.
This is completely incoherent. People loved the movie and the script was amazing for me. Everyone can disagree. the problems that people like tulsa bring up aren't problems to me. They make the movie better.
@@Droselover-hu1gt , I wasn't saying that the film is bad or should not be liked, I really enjoyed it, too. But I believe that we shouldn't ignore its problems, so they won't be repeated in future films. All points are valid though
On my first viewing I had fun but I hated a lot of it😂😂 it's really not good aside from the nostalgia stuff and Willem Dafoe crushing it as Green Goblin.
@@antonioworley70 @antonio worley , Peter's first movie lesson was to be careful with risks and responsibilities. Peter's second movie lesson was not to trust strangers. Yet, still, for some reason, he developed no trust issues and decided to trust several criminals, endangering his neighborhood (and having to deal with devastating consequences, who would've thought). I'm just sad that he doesn't really change through the movies, like his experience doesn't matter - it's not how characters should develop in a universe with an overarching plot
@@thegoodreylo4749 Woah, It's not worse. Just not worthy of a re-release by any standard. But I'm not gonna act like you have no reason for saying that.
Respect to my girl Nutsa for taking on the wrath of the entire Spider-Man fandom 💀 I agree with this take definitely. Endgame and nwh feel more like experiences than movies. If all the fan service is removed, there wouldn’t be much substance. Infinity war, civil war, and guardians of the galaxy, remain some of the most fulfilling and exciting marvel movies that I’ve ever seen.
The fact that Marvel went from "we're not going to tell another origin story again" to "we've made another origin story of six movies and five years" when the Russo Brothers years ago literally stated that Peter Parker already had his REAL ORIGIN STORY done off-screen in order to avoid complaints from fans, is absolutely the most dumbest fucking shit i've ever seen.
Wow is almost like the ruso brothers know the character better than Sony as a hole. Say whatever you want about the russos and their comvoluted plots, or ugly cinematography, but at least they nail what is important for the character development without contradicting before, and even if they do contradict it they still point it out in a way that felt natural, like bucky acepting he killed Tonys parents even though he spent most of the film denying it, or how thanos even though he see himself as a cold overlors with nothing to loose, he still care enough for gamora to earn the soul stone.
@Erik Kemeey then why the fuck we spent 3 movies to learn that? Thats like spending 6 movies to see captain marvel to grow as a character when in reality they should have use the first one as the actual foundation, in my book is not good story telling if the first entry is mostly filler and the main lead dosn't learn Jack shit.
@Erik Kemeey so screw it Shazam>>>>>>>>>>>>> any tom holland spiderman movie. Because in one movie i know shazam better than i know tom holland spiderman in 3 or 6 movies in general. And don't start with the tv format that the first movie should be like a pilot episode and the final movie is like the season finale, thats bullshit because one episode is dosn't work as one movie, and entire season should work as a movie.
I like this review a lot. No matter the nostalgia bait, no matter spectacle and excitement, the writing is the only thing that will stick in the end. This movie in difference with the last one at least has soul, shame it has to be the soul of someone with no character that tries to please everyone. Great video btw.
Agreed. It's like people say about the journey being as important as the destination. (If I got it wrong, I've had a long weekend.) Even if there's a payoff or some kind when you reach the end, it won't mean so much if the path you take has all the flaws and potholes possible...that path can and will even make you ask, "Uh, was this a trip worth taking?"
My opinion on this movie. I want to start by saying, I don't want to say that I didn't like the movie at all. It just had the potential to be better. What I liked about this movie was that it was Tobey, Andrew and the other old actors. What I didn't like, the story, the dialogue and how he explains things in this movie. For example, I don't like how they explained bringing Tobey Andrew and the others to the movie. that is, after this explanation it means that he had to bring in an infinity of people who know that Peter Parker is Spiderman, Or Venom as he knew Venom De spiderman, Through another from another universe, more, but the story must also be credible. And the fact that he had to heal the vilans did not make sense because they were still vilans. they made too many jokes and the dialogue sucks. Mcu has to invest more in the story than in the special effects if the world wants to watch more of their movies
@@ionutconstantin1246 healing the villains makes sense, hes a good person he shouldnt just beat up people with actual mental illnesses. And ignoring the mcu cringey dialogue for a sec half the villains did not need to be in this movie, Lizard hardly does anything, Sandman just didnt want to show up to film, and everyone else did that classic sinister six tactic of attacking him one at a time then proceeding to leave for literally no reason. Theres no reason any of them specifically as characters need to be there, their just there because they were in the other ones
My concern was always Dr Strange acting so oddly. I was hoping that would turn out to be some kind of deeper thing, like someone pretending to be him somehow, because it just feels so out of place with how he was established. That and the fact that Peter wanting to save a bunch of people he doesn’t know just because the spell was messed up… that feels a bit forced. I get the sentiment behind it but Strange having an alternative that was meant to happen (and already had, technically) feels like something he would have HAD to accept. Also… no way Peter beats Strange in their first outing. Certainly not so soundly that Strange is out of commission for HOURS.
Hey! I came from efap. I hope the rest of the people that have come here have been kind aswell. I think efap and their community gets a bad rep but I thought the community was really kind about your video in their comments and we would love to see you on the show!
@@BananaHammocks I assure you if I did make a video (though I have no interest to) I would not say something as mind blowingly dumb as claim the theme in Far From Home was "Don't trust people you don't know" and that No Way Home somehow backtracks on it.
@@MelodyMecato6156 she says so much more than that in this😭 I disagree with the video in general but at least she makes a point, provides evidence, and gives a reference. Even though I disagree it’s way better formatted than 99% of the videos covered on efap. This is like her 8th video and she has mad potential in comparison to most RU-vidrs. Ur mad hating and you’re a whole lot a talk lets see you make a video if you think it’s that easy😂😭
A MASTERPIECE on nostalgia... Out of that is a pretty normal film. We watched it more for Tobey and Andrew and all their villains than for the Spider-Man we are supposed to pay.
can't believe this super hero movie plays out like a super hero movie.. So are you twit? Did you go into this movie thinking that it was gonna be like schindker list Oscar bait?
Bringing them back to the apartment was entirely too stupid of a decision for Peter to make even with the given context. I loved the movie but it’s no masterpiece.
Or the best visual effect nomination? Fuck no. Christ outside of the dr strange battle and doc ocks arms these are the worse effects i ever saw in a spiderman movie. Even the eternals and the suicide squad have better effects than NWH. That starro monster wip the floor with any effect from this movie.
When I first saw the movie, I really enjoyed it, but the entire movie I had a looming feeling that it could’ve been over if Peter just didn’t do half the things he did.
This is exactly how I came out feeling by the end of the movie from the theater. Like it was an OKAY movie but everyone was acting like it was literally the best movie in freakin' history like what? For the most part it was just fan service, no actual good story
Yeah I think it was a good movie it wasn't better than spider man 1, 2 and the spider verse, because No way home was just fan service and it was filled with plot holes, inconsistently stuff, and there's ton of bad writing in it so I don't really consider this movie as a masterpiece and my favorite too. So I give it a 7/10 or 6/10 because it was a fun movie filled with plot holes, inconsistently and bad written scenes.
It was basically the same thing I felt later on with Avengers Endgame! While I still enjoyed it and think it’s a good movie, there’s so many issues, plot holes, etc I have with it.
So basically the writers didn't take into consideration the character development Spiderman went through over the past 6 movies and made him the "good old naive spidey boy" we all "knew and loved". Because there really is nothing more you can do for a late teen kid in pajamas. As if Tony didn't have a suit painted in the colors of a circus. It's unfortunate how we can't move on from what we used to know in order to not evolve characters and I am genuienly saddened to think that, even in a decade from now, Spiderman might still be the naive "neighborhood spidey boy" he was half a century ago. Take your time and take less responsibilities, we support you Nutsa :)
@@jaredsilvers2782 He's a late teenager, and a genius. Heck, Tony's his mentor, and we all know noone learns from their mistakes as well as Tony. And no I didn't expect Peter to have Tony's maturity, but I would have far rathered an unrealistically mature Peter than the 14yo child we got.
After this movie he's definitely learned these lessons... Aunt May died, the entire world has forgotten about him, and he's off to college. He'll definitely have some major growth after this
I'm willing to forgive all of the faults this movie has if it can deliver what it promised: An actual Spider-Man. Leaving the theater, I knew this movie was flawed. I knew if I saw it again, I'd probably see more plot holes and inconsistencies within the plot of this film and continuity errors with information with the old ones. I loved it though. Heck, I even loved ASM2 and that movie doesn't feel redeemable. Anyway, great video. Let's hope they improve with the future films and get Spidey right.
@@calebmcclure3893 also nwh may not have a masterpiece plot, but its plot was a thousand times better than trash amazing spiderman 2's plot, its not even a comparison
I can't thank you enough for making this video. From the moment I watched this movie on its opening weekend, I've felt stranded and alone. No one on social media, not even the ever-trustworthy movie reviewers, thought of this movie the way I did. It's far from a masterpiece. And, in my opinion, it's miles away from entertaining. MCU Peter Parker grew so much in Far From Home, as you point out. He went through the lesson of being the naive kid, and yet we are somehow back to square one? It was disheartening to see and I thought at some point they were going to mention the lessons he learned quite literally a few days prior, but it never happens. Instead we get a drawn out, entirely unbelievable plot of a hero trying to de-villainize the villains with the use of his handy dandy De-Villainizer. I can't fit into one comment all the issues I take with this movie, but I love that you cover most of it. To all the Spidey fans, please do not take offense. If you loved this movie, then you loved it and my little opinion is just that. An opinion.
@Erik Kemeey In his previous movies, Tom's Spider-Man was naive. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. He learned from the consequences of his actions and grew up from irresponsible mindsets, like thinking he can trust a stranger with Stark tech and heave all the responsibility of being a hero onto the stranger. I understand why Peter thought he could trust Mysterio, but still, it was an unwise and something that could have been avoided if he understood the magnitude of the power of EDITH. And I never said Spider-Man doesn't help people. It's what he does. But he didn't need to bring those dangerous villains to the place where his Aunt is in an attempt to cure them there. That didn't make sense and it defeated the growth his character went through.
@Erik Kemeey in Tobey Spiderman it was about choices. There was no cure but themselves. The serum and the claws tempted Norman and doc oc with their own crave for power against them. Both were able to make choices and that's why Tobey Spiderman rejected Norman at the end, and why Doc oc was able to take control of the claws at the end. They had a choice, they always did. Eddie Brock also had a choice in the last movie. And no way home completely ignored that and pretended like they didn't have a choice.
@Erik Kemeey i do, which is why I made the comment i made. Second chances requires a choice, which is what Tobey movies understood. Something this recent movie did not.
@Erik Kemeey I have 100+ from when I was growing up. None of my comics has Spiderman giving "cures" to every single villain. Many times the villains are like Spiderman that become opposite to him in how they handle the power. Choices and responsibilities are involved.
Personally.. the only problem with this movie is character interaction with each other and the new world they are dragged into.. feel like they are not interacting with each other enough like Doctor Octopus should talk with Lizard and Doctor Octopus is extremely shocked Lizard was turn out to be the variant of his close friend and Electro and Lizard should have more interaction with Green Goblin knowing they work under him in TASM universe.. feel like the director is too afraid of criticism about character interaction and film duration but other than that.. it was actually perfect.. if only the director is like Michael Dougherty and his team when making Godzilla: King Of The Monsters
I love that you talk about how Peter shouldn't trust these villains as it's a point that hardly gets mentioned but it doesn't make sense that THIS Peter, who fought a thief who wanted to kill him as a teenager, a crazy man who wanted attention and a crazy titan who caused his own death and that of half the universe, trusts people that the only thing he knows about them is that they are bad, that they are crazy and that the first thing they tried was to kill him.
The thing is, Peter DOESN’T trust these villains. Or he doesn't trust them as far as he can throw them, at least. That's why he had MJ threaten them all with the giant death button box thing. He didn't trust their CHARACTERS, he trusted their desire to live, because if they didn't cooperate with him, MJ or Strange would zap them back. Yes, Peter still took a risk in helping them, but that risk didn't stem from naivety, but the desire to save their lives.
well even mystrieo tried to kill him too but peter intentionally killed him in the footage and we know how the world saw that so he decided to give the villain a second chance because he saw a good in they and they wouldnt been cured if they were evil ass maniac like scorpion or a delusional god like thanos the villains who came in nwh their intentions were never bad from the start norman wanted to have super soldier serum ,doc ock wanted to get a pure sun energy ,lizard wanted to get his one hand , electro wanted recognaistion but power consumed him sand man just wanted to see his daughter but thanos from the start wanted infinity stones and erase half the population
I actually hate it when people say "Peter is still young and inexperienced and like helping people is his whole thing". Like no, we literally saw him grow and mature throughout homecoming and far from home and ur telling me this dumbass couldn't even realise that keeping 5 deadly supervillains in his own home with his aunt may beside him while trying to "cure" them was not a good idea?
Aunt may dies because Peter listened to her stupid and bad advice that doesn't even fit her character. And she dies saying the quote that literally contradicts herself. Her saying this line was clearly for fanservice and the writers clearly thought no one would question it thinking fans would appreciate the fanservice. The writers fumbled the writing and still released this expecting no one would realize as if we're idiots and clearly we are considering how praised this movie is.
Honestly this video is bound to get hate. Honestly its laughable to me how much flaws the movie has. I love Tobey spiderman but even at first viewing i saw the flaws. Ironically people always say to spiderman fans to not be blinded by nostalgia while most of this movies enjoyment is nostalgia. Only thing i thought of after the movie was the wasted potential.
@@anirudhgupta2570 they are haters lol they dont have flaws other than how ned did that magic and or how electro knew that peter qwas spider man or venom which have a logical explanation but they want to hate
"Ironically people always say to spiderman fans to not be blinded by nostalgia while most of this movies enjoyment is nostalgia." This 1000%. The people who always used to say that to trash the Raimi movies are so full of crap.
I'm glad at least some people see the flaws, even "critics" don't agnologize the infinite flaws this movie has, I didn't feel any nostalgia from this movie so the second time I watched this movie I focused only on the plot and this movie was even worse than I thought it was, one of the worst, if not the worst comic book movie I've ever seen... I don't ever want to see a new Spider-Man movie if it's not directed by Sam Raimi or written by Phil Lord
Finally somone pointed out aunt May's charecter shift how can shift from a background charecter to a main one and only having little to nothing of development wich made the the with great power comes great responsibility feel bland for me even her death I felt nothing
To me her death felt like a lag kill in a game. May, a Norman human, gets impaled by Norman's glider which killed him, a super human. And a brick wall said glider brings down, then she stands up for 5 minutes and gives Peter a pep talk before dying. It just felt silly
@@Retroholic for all the people that mocks marion cotillard dieying acting in the dark knight rises why no one is mocking this scene for doing it worse. Hell aunt may death in the video game was much better done since she die knowing that Peter was going to do the right thing by curing the city and not her, something that ben always wanted for him.
@@motor4X4kombat I fully agree, tho tbh I thought people were more mad at Marion Cotillard's portrail Talia than her death, it wasn't Nolan's strongest writing.
I love how Doc Ock and Sandman both knew Norman was Green Goblin and knew how he died, without it EVER being revealed in the first trilogy. I mean if Doc knew, then that would of prevented Spiderman 3 from happening because Harry would of knew.
In my opinion No Way Home could've been a much better film with some tweaks to the plot: 1. Dr Strange is the one who reaches out to Peter to help him with his secret identity crisis to repay him for his help against Thanos and kind of forces his help upon Peter, which ultimately backfires and he botches the spell because of his own inadequacy. 2. Due to everything that's happened with Mysterio and now Dr Strange, Peter isolates himself from everyone and most importantly, distrusts everyone, therefore refusing Dr Strange, Ned, MJ and Daredevil's help in resolving the matter. This leads to Dr Strange attempting to subdue Peter and their fight ensues similar to their fight in the film, just without the mcguffin box. This also serves as minor character development for Strange as he learns to respect Peter as an equal since he does kinda lose the fight lol. 3. Peter manually hunts down all of the villains himself and captures all but one... The Green Goblin, who gets to Aunt May and kills her, also freeing all the recently captured villains as a result. 4. Tobey and Andrew's iterations of Spider-Man console Peter and he learns to be more selective with his trust, however he still offers to help create the antidotes for the villains. Everything else can stay basically the same imo, like the introduction of the other Spider men, their interactions with Peter, the final battle, the memory wipe, and the cliffhanger at the end, but I'd love to hear what you guys think! This is coming from a film student btw.
@Erik Kemeey Yes because especially after the Mysterio incident he should have no grounds to trust them as he did. In my rewrite he does offer help but isn't stupid about it coming off the back of the last film.
@Erik Kemeey Trusting people so quickly is exactly what got him in the Far From Home situation in the first place and these guys are renowned villains so it would be a pretty stupid move to trust them blindly. That's why I don't think he should try and cure them immediately since it makes no sense seeing as how he's already gone through a similar situation. In my rewrite he still ends up helping the villains but not until the other spider men talk to him. Also why would I pity him? Hqe's a fictional character lol and I'd love to hear what part about my rewrite is illogical. Peter not learning from his mistakes is what seems to be illogical to me.
I think this is a really good analysis. I definitely enjoyed the movie, and I kinda shut off my brain when I'm really engaged with something, so I think the movie definitely did a good job there, I feel like they did a really good job of hitting the right notes with the nostalgia bait to make me feel things, without making me feel like they were pandering... too much. But I definitely had a feeling afterwards that there were issues with some of the plot beats, and I think you did a great job identifying some of the major ones. Just because you like something shouldn't make it immune to criticism.
It's pretty easy to get caught up in all the hype these days. People are always looking for the next big thing, and they are looking so hard that anything halfway decent that comes along does it for them. Kind of understandable that people wanted to praise No Way Home, considering the previous mixed outings from Marvel. Everyone is just looking to get sucked in.
as a writer i greatly appreciate what you've said. i enjoyed the movie but i have quickly forgotten about this movie sadly despite my love for spiderman. writing is always key to what should be called a masterpiece
I really like that someone is finally criticizing this movie, even though I have a way bigger point of hating it then inconsistency in the character development. The whole movie was meant to attract the audience with nostalgia and theese "epic" battles and "heartbreaking" moments. The writers wanted the movie to sell good without any sense for the true values of theese movies or comics.
Honestly it was alright for going off pure hype. Not much else tho. I sure people genuinely enjoy this movie and it's fine if they do. personally I don't get it but that's life I suppose.
First of all, I wanna say I have mad respect for you expressing these opinions knowing the backlash they'd probably get. Second, as a person who honestly loved the movie (and probably always will), I found myself agreeing with just about everything you said. I was one of the people who called this movie a masterpiece, and for various reasons I will probably continue to do that in the future, but I'm glad I heard out your points and saw that this film does have many, many writing flaws. I suppose I've also gained some appreciation for the fact that not everyone can enjoy this movie as much as I can.
tbh this video seemed like a biased video against spider-man just to get views cause of half the points dont make sense(dont get me wrong i agree spiderman nwh isnt a masterpiece and it has its fair share of issues)
I really admire your bravery for this one. I love your videos and always enjoy your thoughts on films, as well as the obvious work you put into editing these videos. I know it has to be hard to put so much work into something you know a lot of people will probably hate, but I'm grateful you did. And you could have given up after the copy strike, but you didn't. The movie was an orgasmic experience for me and I've praised a lot since watching, but you've given me a lot to think about in terms of the writing and overall quality of the film - and I'm glad you didn't wait three years to say it. You'll get nothing but love and gratitude from me! ❤️
@Erik Kemeey Honestly, no, I haven't. I've been kind of in a bubble when it comes to this movie. Usually, a movie has a fair balance of criticism and praise, but I've heard nothing but praise for this movie. This was admittedly my first exposure to genuine criticism of the film.
I think your take is well thought out and intelligent. I felt very similar things when watching NWH. Also your editing chops and dry comedic timing are on point, and your asset management is diverse and non-repetitive. It takes a lot of work to make a video this long and this put together; just wanted to acknowledge the skill you have for editing and storytelling. You also seem to have a good appreciation of Peter Parker from a comics origin. Most people only know him from the films, which is fine, but he really is a complex character, and the films could do more to flesh that out. My take is that the MCU wanted to get to the end result of NWH, a reset Spider-Man, while also bringing in Tobey, Andrew, etc, and juggling concepts and mashups that would result in a huge spectacle for the 3rd standalone Tom feature. This makes a lot of sense for Hollywood and the MCU, and I'm sure the studios knew they would be sacrificing story for fanfare, and that's a gamble they can take. Sony's involvement only convolutes the matter. I also see it as being like one of those standalone comic book arcs where they're having fun with a mashup and not really disturbing the main story lines. They affected nothing major of the main story lines, so this was, in a sense, a throwaway title made to dazzle a crowd and reset the main character so they can start fresh. If they do another Tom Holland feature, I think he will carry the lessons forward from Tony and Mysterio, as well as the two Peters and the memories only he has now. It'll be a different Spider-man, hopefully.
I agree that all these things are problems, but for me the straw that broke the camel's back was that the ENTIRE plot hinges on the fact that Peter happened to visit Strange on a day when he butt chugged 10 gallons of stupid pills, and didn't tell him to call the college BEFORE casting a multi-verse altering, memory deleting, reality warping spell, and didn't explain the consequences of the spell BEFORE casting it. this is a man that looked in to 13240234890 different futures, and yet he's short sighted enough here to not be able to see the obvious consequences of his actions 5 seconds down the line. also, their handling of Flint Marko is just straight up character assassination. Having Otto be evil again makes sense because of the tentacle's influence on him, but Marko just starts twirling his mustache 4 minutes in for no reason, and has no discernable motivations for being evil again other than it's what the script said he was supposed to do this time.
Okay, but the most important scene wasn't filmed at all. Do we need to wait now for all the Spiders doing Drive Your Funky Soul dance until the official release of bloopers? And Sam Raimi is a genius visionaire, of course.
I had the exact same issues as you did. But I still enjoyed it. I think it's the best in the trilogy considering they finally gave Peter actual stakes and somewhat of an arc. Then Homecoming, and finally FFH. Great video! Love your editing.
It being the best of the trilogy isnt an accomplishment. Homecoming was not great but alright at best. FFH was absolutely trash, garbage plot, terrible villlain, corny af.
You make some amazing points. (Pun intended.) Ultimately, I'd have to agree: Spider-Man: No Way Home was not a masterpiece -film-. However, it was a masterpiece -nostalgia trip-.
You are so so so right!!! The marketing never hid the fact that this movie was going to milk the nostalgia-cow and the cameo-goat, the only thing that was unknown was how big the roles of the other spideys would be and the fact that they played a big role was the best thing this movie had to offer. I hate what they did with Strange in this one, but now we know it was to prepare us for what they would do with Strange in his own movie. Spiderman defeats Strange in his own world, in a world Strange controls, and he does it with something math. Spiderman locks him up in his world and than seems to forget about him, because Strange only gets out by accident because the plot needs him. You are very right about May, I just did not get the way she was behaving in this movie, and her deathscene was not only something to push Peter into a certain headspace, but OMG did that scene drag on and on and on. You are also right about the action in this movie, it all seemed so forced into the story, but I think that is a Marvel-problem, I think every script begins with writing where the action scenes will be. The final battle was again very stupid, the baddies did not seem to have a clue. I do not understand why they used Sandman and Lizard if they could not get the actors, Elektro, Goblin and Doc Ock could have been enough. This movie only proves how a simple trick can generate a huge amount of money if it is done good, with Star Wars they failed to do the simple trick good, and the same goes for Jurassic World, so No Way Home deserves credit for that.
I agreed this view first, till the EFAP covered this, and shared their views. Basically, "with great..." has had two different meanings. The surface level meaning is that "if you don't do good, bad things happen". We've seen it being told not just in SM stories, but in all superhero or heroic stories. But, the deeper meaning, is, "sometimes, even if you do good, bad things happen, but that's no reason to stop doing good". This is what they explore in NWH. In a way, it's perfect that Aunt May said it then and there. Because, if she didn't say it then and died, he'd think the bad guys are not his responsibility, and immediately find the switch, click it and send them back to their worlds, and to death. But, by saying it, she's practically saying that "even if I'm dying here because of what you've decided to do, you're still doing the right thing". To contrast this to other films, in The Dark Knight, Bruce Wayne didn't stop being batman when Rachel died because of his actions, in TASM, Peter didn't stop being Spiderman when Gwen died. And while in other Spiderman films, the motto comes early in their superhero careers, to an arrogant and selfish self, and it brings out the good in them, here in MCU Spiderman, who's paraphrased and is effectively living the motto, in that surface level, and an audience who's seen it time and time again, it's the first time we see it spoken to tell that deeper and harsher meaning. Also, I'd love to seen you come in EFAP. You guys are a lot similar in views and content. And I really hope them covering your video would lead to another Jay and Rhinomilk situation. You gotta appreciate when even the comment section of the reaction content is polite and actually respects your work and quality, even if they don't agree with the points.
I'm still conflicted. While I agree that the deeper meaning of the line makes perfect in the movie, the surface level one is still janky, because Peter taking action is what directly caused her death, making the line bizarre. To me it would have probably worked better if the death of Aunt May had been caused by something out of Peter's control. That way she could still say that with power comes responsibility, meaning that Peter must stop the mess, and the deeper meaning of him having to go on even if it costs him would still be intact.
@@markopusic8258 this would be sort of like the trolley problem, I guess. Let five people die? Or kill one to save the five? Especially, if that one is someone you love. Still it won't take away from the fact that peter should use his powers for what's right, regardless of how much it'll cost him. And peter alone did cause her death. Goblin threw the bomb, which resulted in injuring and killing her. Any situation other than peter intentionally killing her, should be counted as a collateral damage, I guess. Making Aunt May's words meaningful.
Just finished watching your vid on Feminist Hollywood and was amazed lol. I said to myself “I should see what else has she done”. Literally went to your channel and saw this was hot off the oven. Great analysis and very bold for coming out against almost everyone’s hyped-up Super. Looking forward to see more of you!
Great insights. Movie requires quite a bit of suspension of disbelief, but it promised so much payoff that I felt it was worth it and happily turned my brain off. Doctor Strange's story and what happened to him did frustrate me in real time at the theater, but I shrugged and moved on. Love your vids Nutsa. Thanks for the work and great edits as always
Let's not lie. We all enjoyed the movie bringing back bunch of old Spiderman characters. But that's exactly the problem with the movie. It relies too much on previous characters without trying to give an actual good story. If the actors were replaced, nobody would have like this. It's just a fact at this point that it's nostalgia that carried the movie, which is sad because if the people in charge realize that all they have to do is bring some old characters to get a huge box office, they're gonna start ignoring the story and focus on bringing as many characters as they can. Almsot everything post Endgame doesn't hit as hard and there hasn't been a movie with a really good story ever since. I'm not saying that Endgame is a masterpiece but it still has a satisfying conclusion and was in the making for 10+ years. I mean look at Thor: Love and Thunder. That's the first Marvel movie that felt like it was legit empty and just a nothing movie. Thor: The Dark World wasn't good but it at least tried to create a new story. And I'll just ignore the all the series because as we know, Disney ruins everything they touch to milk more money.
Would be great to have you on EFAP. Even though there are some things I don't agree with, this video is good. I like your editing style and humour. You are amazing! And hopefully you're doing better now (that stuff about depression in your pinned comment) 🙌
Good point about the quote and Mays death. Another thing is that Peter already echos that philosophy in Civil War when he says (I'm paraphrasing) if you can help and choose not to you're a part of the problem. All he needed was being reckless for him to have a more mature grasp of what responsibility is. And they kinda ignored that so Aunt May could feel more important. Which I don't mind May being important, but like you said, she was goofy, lovely aunt that did stuff for you until this movie. Edit: oh, you already pointed out his intro.😂😂
I really liked the video, don't be scared of what people will think, it's your opinion and you have a right to it. Plus you aren't wrong. Personally I do think it handles everything as good as it can and is handled better than endgame, but eventually it will be viewed like Endgame is. But I'm fine with that, and I think everyone is fine with it. It was a good way to end off this spiderman trilogy
This review is very good points. However there is one thing I disagree with: Peter trying to save the villains. For me, it seemed like it was either, 1, him thinking he would be able to do it consequence-free (least likely) or 2, Peter thinking intentionally helping some people will help balance how he unintentionally hurt his friends. Though, I do partially agree with Aunt May being used for plot. HOWEVER the main thing I didn't like about no way home was the plot holes.
The movie was really boring and I feel bad for Norman coming back to his time thinking he can make up for his past just to end up dead by his glider again.
Nutsa, thank you for validating exactly how I have been feeling since watching NWH. I 100% agree. No Way Home is great and all but when I compare it to *actual* masterpieces, it doesn't even come close. My theory is that people think No Way Home is a "Masterpiece" because it is simply better than those two teen-comedy Disney channel Spider-Man movies that came before it... I call it the "Snyder Cut Effect:" put a bad movie next to a worse movie and that bad movie looks great by comparison. NWH finally giving us a recognizable Peter Parker/Spider-Man (after 5 years btw) tricks people into believing this movie is greater than it really is. You put it perfectly: Endgame is a perfect example of a movie that is good, but did a lot of things that I hate, and still bother me to this day (treatment of Thor and Hulk and the inclusion of Capt. Marvel). No Way Home is not bad at all, but it's not the best Spider-Man movie either, and it does a lot of things that I... haaatte. The Sinister Six are more like the Sinister 2 and a half; Gobby and Ock are the only "villains". There are STILL no fun prolonged swinging sequences, Ned's bumbling personality makes me want to delete him, MJ--while better--is still #NotMyMJ. And... Aunt May is having flings (yes this really bothers me... Aunt May is not a character from _Friends,_ she's not a floozie). No Way Home does a lot of great things, and the movie actually treats OG characters with respect and wraps up their arcs near perfectly, instead of bringing them back on screen, to devour them for no good reason. (I'm looking at you, Star Wars sequels, Terminator, Incredibles 2, The Last of Us 2, Alien etc etc.) but when I compare it to, say, Back to the Future, it doesn't even come CLOSE! Overall, NWH is a...7?
yeah every movies today are midocre but spider man no way home is the true masterpiece no way home is midocre like every other today movies and it's not spacial
Last of US 2 is a damn amazing game ( As close to masterpiece as can be in every aspect ) Did I feel good afterwards no But I didnt feel good after last of us 1 on ps3 and again on pS4 when I played the remastered b4 TLOU2 lunched ,its not feel good game .... I haven't played a game that amazing ever and I think only naughty dog can beat it again but it wld be tough ..... But ya I loved no way home only when Andrew and Tobey turned up b4 that I had alot of SMH moments , it'd no nasterpiece but its a pretty fun watch for what it was
@@IoiniEverson your opinion and thats okay , I went into it with all the bias of the online leaks and the few reviews I saw but I bought the physical copy and the bought TLOU remastered then gave it to everyone else who didnt get to play the first one so they would play the second one after having the same connection to Joel and Ellie as we did and it was the same for everyone... They all enjoyed the game play , story and okay the girls who got to watch my play through didnt like the ending but guess what most people didnt like the ending of part 1 either ..... its an ugly , emotional , annoying story but thats exactly what they wanted us to feel ..... I was drained at the end of part 1 I tot this definitely the best game on PS3 and I said it again after part 2 this is definitely the best game on ps4 ........ I had a play through again a few months bck and it was an event at least 2 people sat through the 4-5 hours a night that I did for almost a week..... and they were in awe!!! So from my experience and that of everyone else around me and millions of folks who actually allowed themselves to truly play the game, it is a masterpiece 👏 👌 🙌 ❤️ ✨️
Endgame and no way home aren't really movies in my mind, they are moments of crystalized zeitgeist. Infinity War had to be a good film, as long as endgame didn't absolutely suck it was going to be loved because it's the sequel to like 22 movies or something like that. Neither one really scratches the itch I have for entertainment more the itch of satisfaction when I complete a really hardcore puzzle, of all the pieces coming together to make something more then it is on its own. So yeah not great films, but they were going to be considered great as long as they weren't obviously bad. Anyways, spider-verse is still the best spiderman movie.
I really liked No Way Home. Is it a masterpiece? No. There’s a lot of holes in the story but I was always one to love a movie if it delivered on its emotion. So this really worked for me. Is it my favorite spider man movie? Nah but it’s up there. Great video! I love seeing your stuff pop up on my recommendations!
@@aadrishdey932 there's still written records of Peter so he should still have stark tech, and the ai in the mask seems to still work so the homemade suit while a great callback is kind of pointless
@@flyinryan1459 no ther arent all records are erased from existence this is magic not physical science homemadd suit has no ai and ai in the mask has erased the records of peter noone of the stark family now knows about peter so its not appropiate for peter to use their tech
No Way Home is honestly one of the most overrated movies of all time. I remember watching it at the theater and, yeah, it was cool seeing my favorite live-action Spider-Man there, it's not Tom Holland obviously, but otherwise, there's nothing really outstanding about the movie. The villains, except for Green Goblin, were all pretty bad. Tom Holland's Spider-Man continued to behave like an absolute idiot who acts first before thinking about what his actions might lead to and then has to solve the problem that HE caused. Honestly, the only reason why I think people liked the movie was because of the fanservice, which was honestly really damn forced, and because the ending actually gave us a glimpse of hope that this version of Spider-Man will now be good, but... this is yet another mediocre movie with really poor writing. How people loved it so much is honestly beyond me.
I'm glad to see that more and more people are seeing the light regarding even what's considered Marvel's best films. You absolutely nailed it. A few great scenes and spots here and there does NOT constitute a 2 hour long masterpiece. It's a film where the studio had so little faith in their version of the lead (who's Marvel's #1 A lister) that they had to rely on better elements from objectively better made films from yesteryear. I mean, let's be honest here. We all know why 99% of people went see this movie. It was because Tobey Spider-Man, let's not kid ourselves. And the movie's plot can only happen if every character is written supremely out of character. Dr. Strange is unrecognizable. He would never do (or say) the things he does in this film. And the whole movie hinges on a cop out of Peter still being able to move his Spider body even though his soul has been disconnected from it. Strange won, but the writers wrote themselves into a corner, so instead of going back and writing something smart, like all Marvel films, they took the easy way out because most of the general population don't care about breaking down film craft to examine whether it's well made or not. What's worse is that Iron Boy Jr. failed the character test in the end. He WAS going to murder his villain if the REAL Spider-Man didn't stop him. That's failure. After walking out the theater and thinking about it, I was extremely disappointed at the overwhelming universal and blind praise it was receiving. People were blinded by the EXPERIENCE of it, and therefore couldn't see the vast number of flaws. I wanted better than this, and even though this is (mostly) Sony, it IS a Marvel movie, so how much better could I have expected?
I wouldn't say Peter failed his character test. If he did, he would've pushed Tobey out of the way like he doesn't care. Either way, NWH is not as horrific as Across the Spider Verse, which ultimately disrespected the legacy of Peter Parker.
It’s more like”Marvel’s post-Endgame” best film. Marvel fed people so much garbage lately that it conditioned them to see any movie that is borderline decent as a masterpiece. The same can be said for Star Wars and how people overrating Andor so much.
This review sounded like it was really difficult for you to make. I respect that you had the willingness and courage to make this video. Even if I strongly disagree with some of the points and analysis you put forward. I don’t think No Way Home is a masterpiece but I firmly believe it will be enjoyed appropriately in its entirety in the future. As opposed to being an excuse for a “best of” compilation for fans to watch years from now.
This was in my feed, but I tell you. The Thanos "alternate" explanation, the ptsd problem and the "failed" aunt May plot structure was so perceptive from a higher vantage point; your channel looks very promising. Im subbed and expect the same high quality as in Cinema Therapy, the Closer Look and Filmento. ...And thank you for not shaming those of us that actually loved the movie, but knew something was very much off.
I know you know there are like a billion other things plot wise that is wrong with this movie, but I also see that the video would've been long. Extreme plot convenience would be the best way to talk about this movie. The ending literally ruins it all. Don't send the villains back, they'll be killed. And they get sent back regardless, to die. As you said - The aunt may responsibility bs was there to enunciate responsibility by "saving" them. It even backfires on that. And then like other spiderman and their interactions with their villains. Andrew and the lizard should've been the closest. But because NWH wanted the fans to see how they were gonna redeem TASM 2 and Andrew. They made him be all over electro, and completely ignore the lizard. Whom was a like a father to Andrew's pete. Tobey's peter just ignores Sandman, even tho what happened at the end of Spiderman 3. Andrew's and Tobey's peter are way more smarter than Tom's. Yet they forget to "teamwork". Even tho in their movies, they've done it a bunch. It's a shame that people are still not that affected by the criticisms, and are just moving on with it. Martin Scorcese was ironically right. Cinema is dead. The newest generation is done
Thanks for sharing. Totally agree that people are blinded by their nostalgia to see that the movie itself isn’t good. I loved it too, but thought it was way worse than the overwhelming consensus. I feel that even more strongly with Endgame, so I’d love to see a review of that
Just found your stuff, really enjoying it. I felt a similar way, it was fun and a good watch, great nostalgia. But I totally agree that it was written poorly. I have quite a few flaws that I saw from it as a stand alone movie, but knew there was more to it than my own analysis. Thanks for having the confidence to speak up cause I get to see so much more of what I knew was there but couldn't find. Keep up the good work, and keep leading with your view, not the one people want you to have.
@Erik Kemeey This question was answered in the video. Nutsa stated that He still could of helped them while keeping them in their cages, and with Doctor Strange by his side. Rather than locking Doctor Strange away, and letting known criminals out and giving them access to Tony's advance tech.
I agree with your point on so many levels, but as someone who watches movie only for fun (on most part) I oversaw allthe lackings cause three spidey landing was dope. By the way, your editing is *chefs kiss*. Half of the reason I watch your videos.
Thank you for making this video! I’ve only met one other person that didn’t really enjoy this movie, I felt like I was an old grouch almost. I kept coming back to the fact that the writing, pacing, and tone was so bad. Glad I’m not alone. It was a fun, but super flawed movie.
The guys on EFAP broadly agrees with your take on the overall quality of the movie, only they arrive at their conclusions via different routes. It's be interesting to see you all discuss the movie, or just plain having you make a guest appearance on their podcast, provided they cover some subject of mutual interest in future.
I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, but it's definitely the most fun I've had in a movie theatre for a very long time. The audience went wild at least seven different time. It felt like I was at a sporting event. That being said, my main problem was how quickly they were able to cure the villains. Just spend an afternoon in a high school lab (which apparently has all the needed chemicals and ingredients) and you can reverse a sand guy, a lizard guy, and the Goblin serum. By that logic, any amateur chemist can easily undo Captain America's serum too.
All I kept hearing about this movie is how great it was. Glad I found this video to voice the same opinions and problems I had with this movie. I've found my people in these comments
NAILED IT! The MCU wants the movies to progress in a web of interconnected stories (pun intended). The stories do, but the characters (like Spidey especially) don't. It makes no sense.
Fair conclusion to all the comments: No way home is a great movie and what they tried to acheive in 2 and a half hours was incredible. But at the same time, many writing mistakes were present. The plot would have been so much better if they just said that strange did the spell and it went wrong, and the villians slipped in and strange was damaged and disabled in battle. And then villians do chaos in the city and it basically turns into kinda a sinister 6 movie where spiderman must face villians with limited time, multitasking and trying to catch them all, but loses against them. And then andrew and tobey pop in and then they figure out that the only way they can win until strange can return them to their universe is by curing them. Then they do so and strange will become fully capable and return them home. And then " they all forget peter" ending must stay, since strange will use the same reverse spell. And aunt may's death will stay, because of the clashes between peter and the villians. At least the "with great power with it must come great responsibility " wouldve made sense in my version since he told strange to do the spell at the first place but aunt may didnt encourage him to cure them in my version. No way home was a great movie. I myslef can think of doing another plit and not changing much in the main script. But anyways, it is a sensational movie... The next trilogy will be lit, and if we take the 3 movies as his origin, its good. Tbh all the mcu spidrman movies lacked 1 thing which is swinging scenes and more menacing feeling to a villian. Villian fight scenes. And so on.... and this comes from a director. Im conclusion, the potential it had is 10/10 and they used like an 8.5 which is GREAT. 1.74b in box office is HELLA good. But it felt a little bland when leaving the theater but at same time exciting. 1st time i feel that way.
The movie is not a masterpiece and in my opinion neither is Citizen Kane, just saying. However, as a hardcore spider-man fan, I can tell you that this movie is great for the same exact reasons you laid out. It was fun to finally have spidey in the MCU, so his appearance in Civil War was exciting but then "Homecoming" happened, and as a fan, I wasn't watching spider-man movie, I was watching Iron Man's sidekick. This continued with "Far From Home" and perhaps even worst because they took spider-man out of New York and don't even get me started on that scene with the Stark glasses in the bus ride to England, where Peter almost blows up the bus, it was completely out of character. You see, it's not that Peter has a bad case of amnesia, is that Marvel didn't get to the core of the character after two movies and three appearances. And that's what "No Way Home" gets right. Forget about Iron Man, forget about the Avengers, this is spider-man and like you said his ethos is "with great power comes great responsibility". Out of all the Tom Holland movies, this is the only one that understands the weight of being spider-man, it is also the only one where his actions have real consequences because there's no Tony or Mysterio to save him from his mistakes, and finally, the ending of "No Way Home" nails what a spider-man sacrifice looks like. You think the movie is going to become a huge financial success just because of nostalgia bait or action spectacle. This is the spider-man movie fans have been wanting since he entered the MCU. This is why so many people say that it took three movies to flush out the character. Having the other spideys is just the icing on the cake. All in all I do enjoy your videos, even if I don't agree. Also, if you want to know what a spidey masterpiece looks like then watch Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2.
@Erik Kemeey the scene in ffh is stupid because Peter tries to use the Stark technology for his own high school popularity gain, it didn't fit with his character, yes it was an accident, but an accident caused by his non-charaterestic behaviour. Also, this video just layed out how Tony saved the ferri ship scene in Homecoming.
I was never a fan of the MCU version of Spider-Man and how the film viewed his history. So this video is perfect for me. Thanks for an amazing video looking at the whole situation problem of No Way Home.
