the fact that hyperbloom is still relevant to this day cuz it can most likely trivialize a half of abyss, i would say that furina has fallen off more than nahida cuz of the bullshit bond of life that chlorinde and arlecchino has. nahida mostly pops off at c2.
hoyoverse didnt abandoned her imo, hoyoverse just overtuned her kit to the fullest to make her relevant since her release, hoyoverse just babied nahida literally since release, players dont have to worry about nahida falling off cuz shes always gna be relevant i think she can be falling off when snezhnaya release cuz cryo has no reaction on dendro.
@@seanxhunter77 Furina did not fall off what lol, only 2 characters use bond of life and Furina's drain doesn't even interfere with anything as both of those characters can self heal
"falling off" sounds like the wrong phrase for what you're describing. If the abyss was getting harder in a way nahida couldn't handle, then it would apply. Instead, "left behind" seems better for what you're describing. Not any worse than before, but not any better.
i'd say "no longer a must pull " . falling off makes sense to me as in her value for players like me did go down but the wording is clickbaity for sure .
the newer dendro character also doesnt want her which wasnt the case before, she was always the most wanted in a dendro team, now it is not longer the case
Even though hyperbloom isn't as OP as before, it is still an extremely comfortable style to play that is low effort and highly effective, so I think Nahida's place is cemented just like Raiden's when it comes to people who value comfortability at relatively low effort while playing through Genshin
Dude never heard of strong low investment supports. Which are not really comparable to strong low investment dps. Neither is really better or worse than the other. I mean good for you if your team is carried by one dps but thats not how team building works.
@milla8632 Yeah, as an Arlecchino main, she’s really comfy to play imo. Her BoL honestly doesn’t have too much of an impact on her playstyle. My Kachina has died wayyy more times in just one Abyss cycle than Arlecchino ever has just by being at lvl 80 and up against the stupid gravity boss on 12-2-2
@@maxwu4145Do those two work with ONLY trash artifacts with EM stats/subs? Nothing goes lower iq/effort mode than plain Kuki/Raiden/electro trigger EM build.
Maybe they'll improve super conduct at some point, I rarely hear about that reaction. I think Cryo reactions overall need a reboost, and it'll probably start with Citlali and expand when we get to Snezhnaya with the Tsaritsa herself.
They are abandoning her lol. She was in meta because of carries like Alhaitham, but Kinich (with just 1 decent buffer) is better than alhaitham. Nahida is just worst than Yaoyao for Kinich.
No because that would require Hoyo to entirely move to transformative reaction damage. Nahida is "falling off" because she is a dendro exclusive support who was only meta dominant because every good team was a dendro team. She has like 3 teams but all of those 3 teams were top 5. Now she still has 3 teams but they aren't top 5 anymore. Furina has a billion teams and will only get more. If Mavuika is a support or subdps with off-field application then she will have amazing synergy with furina, if she is a dps then she will also have amazing synergy with furina. Nahida is a narrow character while Furina isn't.
The basis of these vids are the rage baits imo.Even tho the creator or the title says a certain character is falling off if enough people play the aformentioned character technically they've not fallen off.And to the guy above me I think the OP intended this as a joke..
I don't think so, Hydro is a good universal element that reacts with everything while Dendro is niche and entirely depends on its reaction multipliers which are just going to get powercrept by the 5.2 reaction buffs. Dendro would need more reactions added to remain competitive and we've seen how that went for Geo.
i really can see that, maybe hoyo will shadow nerf her, like venti or cryo case like making enemies that can make your team cant take any damage, so fanfare cant be trigger, and after maybe 20s your on field will die instantly, lol that will be hilarious
As I mentioned before, it is just that other team archetypes started catching up with Hyperbloom. It is not that she is falling off, other are catching up. Nahida is still Tier 0 and will always be.
the video seems to be saying that they have easily exceeded dendro teams. that's what he means by fell off . the others are not catching up. hes saying they have bypassed
Just the correction that no other team archetypes have come up, Hoyo just blew off power crept with things like Daddy and Dragon boy, i would not call that archetypes😂😂😂
they are *ahead of hyperbloom* , not "catching up". there are now teams that are not only stronger at floor, but ridiculously stronger with each inch of more investment unlike hyperbloom.
The other archetypes aren’t catching up to hyperbloom, but easily passing it in all honesty. If Nahida isn’t c2, a hyperbloom team just can’t realistically compete with the the likes of Mualani, Neuvillette, Arlecchino, Lyney, etc, at optimal performance. It’s still certainly a great archetype, but it’s not at all what is leading the game state at the current point. Hyperbloom is only going to get further left behind throughout Natlan and other regions, and alongside hyperbloom, dendro as a whole will be further left behind. The exception is characters like Kinich and Emilie, who are dendro, but don’t play any traditional dendro teams (spread, hyperbloom). Hyperbloom will certainly still be a strong, (usually) affordable option, but it’s objectively falling off in comparison to the recent meta characters. I’d also disagree heavily with the take that Nahida will always be T0. She just doesn’t have a place in any of the top teams currently. She’s already just barely hanging on to her position as one of the best characters imo, and only because of her flexibility. But if dendro as a whole continues to be outclassed, then Nahida will just also fall behind, easily dropping out of T0. She is optimal in exclusively dendro teams, and as they are falling off comparatively, so is Nahida.
It's very healthy for the game not to have a "must pull" character and give the chance to the players to invest in whatever they want. Easy to use DPS like Neuvillette are good for very casual players who might only want to beat the abyss for the rewards and aren't focused in building complex teams. People need to remember that this is a single player game with no PvP or ranked mode or competition among players whatsoever. Every player can enjoy the game in whatever way they want and making Nahida a little less dominant is great for everyone, even Nahida enjoyers.
Yea, I know unrelated but we see what happens with must pull units like in HSR. It feels impossible to play certain teams even if you dont have 1 certain party member
@@laurentuwu Yes, you are almost required to have Ruan Mei for super break and Robin for FUA (I use Sparkle instead and it's not the same). There are no 4 star options that could at least aliviate some of the pressure of "needing" to pull for some characters. Currently I can't beat Hoolay without Aventurine and I'm getting bored because I can't progress.
@@iNovak-HSR yea I resonate with you completely… I think that’s what i appreciate about genshin and a lot of ppl take for granted that you can have 4 party members that some people would consider T2-3 and still clear most content in the game with decent investment. but yea hsr has a problem, wish they wouldnt just keep powercreeping every single support and dps in the game (even though i love firefly)
@@laurentuwu The way I see it, HSR is a more competitive game, where big numers are paramount because that's almost all a unit can give as it is turn based (at least talking about DPS); unfortunately, this leads to faster powercreep to keep selling characters. I started the game just before Firefly's banner and got lucky enough to pull her and Ruan Mei, with HTB being free and having options to pull Gallagher in the banner, I had a really good team almost from the get go. However, getting a second team has been a headache because other characters that I like don't go well together (Sparkle, Kafka, SW). I felt the necessity to pull for Feixiao but playing her without Robin and Aventurine isn't as good (fortunately I was already planning on pulling for Aven). When I caught up to the story and all the side missions I started to play Genshin (previously I didn't have a device that could run it properly) and I inmediately loved the different vibe it gives. I'm very keen on building great teams and destroying the abyss, but the flexibility Genshin's teambuilding has is refreshing. I feel like I can use my favorite characters no matter what and even if they are not fit for the abyss, I can explore the vast world with them. I'm really enjoying it and I really hope HSR changes at least a little to give us more options instead of restraining us. Sorry for the long text.
As someone who does battle-stuff reluctantly (mostly for primos) and does NOT grind - I give myself 1 (and sometimes 2 - if I get annoyed at something) go-s at the abyss and that's... it. So easy/comfy characters like Neuvi and Nahida are my go tos. (Also, because they are my favorite characters in general, so building my teams around them just make sense!) At the end of the day, Genshin is relatively casual-friendly, and I am THANKFUL for that. I care mostly for the story/lore, world building, and exploration the most, so... yeah. People should play how they want and pull for whomever they want. The person who got me in the game started from the get-go and STILL mains Keqing to this day.
[5:53] As noted, *Nahida's* multiwave "problem" comes not from her, but from her teammates: _if_ you can swap back to her every 6s (and the wave isn't "shorter" than that) _then_ you can (re)apply Dendro as many times as needed; ...this compounds into her other "weaknesses", which are also all teammate related: She either wants a bazillion Electro applications for *Quicken* teams (with the likes of Fischl and Alhaitham) _or_ a bazillion Hydro applications _plus_ consistent Electro _and/or_ Pyro AoE applications for Bloom explosions, which have ceilings both in "damage per proc" (due to max reachable Elemental Mastery on the trigger) and "max procs per second" (due to how seed generation and elemental "aura" consumption work)... ... YET, I disagree with the observations made on the video as said "damage ceilings" are still _way_ above what 36-Staring Abyss asks from us, so any properly built Hyperbloom / Burgeon team is still meta enough - with "better" teams just "winning more" to the point of being overkill. ALSO, Nahida _still_ doesn't have a proper Burgeon trigger (outside of meme on-field Klee), and that could/should change with Mavuika's release, making for yet another Overpowered Dendro team. ... FINALLY, *Furina* (buffs + enough off-field hydro app on E for creating seeds) and *Yae* (EM scaling on E + enough off-field AoE electro application for keeping Quicken while causing Hyperbloom) make for the comfiest Quickbloom teammates available: _any_ 4th slot that complements this "core" - be it *Sigewinne* for healing, buffing and stalling, *Xilonen* for the extra res break, buffs and healing, *Ororon* for even more Aggravate and Hyperbloom stuff (as he is _supposedly_ a Fischl sidegrade that benefits from electro-charged) or even *Mavuika* in the future, for Burgeon and better Tri-Karma procs due to element roundup (as Pyro gives Nahida a ton of ATK) will only make it better / more accessible / comfier - as THE DAMAGE is ALREADY more than ENOUGH; While Mualani pushed Neuvillette's "damage ceiling" up while reducing the consistency, and Arlecchino just raised the floor on all other Pyro carries for being so easy to use and setup, Dendro pretty much has sidegrades on usability while keeping the damage quite consistent between teams - even when we compare Alhaitham "Spread" with Kinich "Burning". *TL;DR:* Nahida didn't get abandoned: it's just that the *Bloom* reactions ceiling was already hit long ago, so there won't be any "powercreep" happening there - unlike for Vaporize and Melt, that had a ton of room to grow. also Burgeon still isn't a thing.
What if hoyo released an electro carry that wasn't crafted in a lab with the sole intent of being extremely mid. Yeah hyperbloom and other transformative reactions have a damage cap but your main dps is still hitting numbers themselves in addition to that. Just that dendro and electro characters are scuffed to account for the reaction damage, that limiter should be taken off by now to account for powercreep elsewhere.
Obviously no character is “must pull” in a literal sense. When people say a character is must pull they aren’t saying that you can’t clear content without them. Most people would put both Kazuha/Xilonen in the top 5 for pull value, that’s the general sentiment they’re trying to get across when they describe them as must pull.
@@ronmexico7256 “Must pull” is still stupid terminology. You can’t just use a term and say “oh it doesn’t mean that.” It’s not hard to get across the idea that you think a character is very valuable without using objectively inaccurate terminology. For example, “Furina is a character that can benefit every account!” Is an objectively true statement, that gets across the sentiment without using any objectively false claims. Perhaps it’s just a me thing since that kinda stuff just peeves me lmao.
@@Glast04 I think some level of common sense is just presumed. For instance the phrase “must own” or “must buy” has been commonly used to sell items for nearly 100 years now. If someone is taking these phrases in the extreme literal sense, and believe their life will cease to function if they don’t obtain these items themselves, then the real issue is with those people not the phrase itself. Most people understand what “must buy/have/pull” is generally used for. It’s a figurative statement, which is pretty common practice in human dialogue.
@@ronmexico7256 Yea I get that, it’s still just wrong wording ultimately. As I said, maybe I’m just particularly sensitive to that nonsense, but it feels particularly worse in gacha games to use such terminology, especially when the term is often used towards newer players as a way to make recommendations. It just contributes to fomo and easily overhypes a character. The descriptor is just also incredibly lacking in nuance, and doesn’t tell you anything about the character besides they are apparently good. Yea, people are used to it atp, but that’s kind of the problem imo. It’s a nonsense term that obscures a character’s actual value, and easily leads to them being overrated, much like Raiden was and still is.
Bro had one of the takes of all time again lmao. Either way she's easily one of the characters people should pull on their account at some point. Due to her raising the ceiling of the entire dendro element and it's reactions.
and the fact that she enables an entire host of dendro teams, means that she's up there in tier 0 for greatest value in fun. she's an all-in-one toy that offers a lot of play for her cost. and the cost-to-fun ratio should be the real and PRIMARY metric for pull value in a world of finite primogems
He literally said he's not saying she's bad or that she's gonna completely fall off. All he said is that she's falling off since there haven't been many new synergies, and more and more teams are comparing to hyperbloom or are better.
He's not wrong, though. In Sumeru and early Fontaine, the "f2p" staples were National and hyperbloom. Now, the staple is Neuv on one side, and typically another Natlan/Fontaine carry, like Arl or Navia on the other, and, for older players, some older carry they've built a strong team for. And yes, Nahida is still great if you want to play those dendro teams. But the incentive to play those dendro teams isn't as strong as before.
literally came back from a year long break on genshin(came back this years lantern rite) and my first goal was to get her and i only had baizhu at the time. now i have kinich, emilie, and tighnari. so worth the pull, and allows me to do sm more in the game
I get that this channel is for a very in-depth discussion and analysis of the power and quality of the characters and teams in Genshin, extremely meta focused and not at all casual, but if you can still "easily 36 star the abyss well under the time limit" with Nahida teams I wouldn't really say she's falling off because, even if she is worse than newer units, those newer units can't do any better than 36 stars on the abyss aside from bragging rights of clearing floors in 1 minute or less.
The best improvement for Nahida and Nahida teams and dendro teams in general is just getting her C2. One of the best and most valuable early constellations that secures the future of dendro for unforeseeable future. Not that you need it. Hyperbloom is still broken.
This C2R1 Nahida, with a great build, doing like 65K spread hits with her E. C2R1 Yelan, also great build, doing big damage. If we get a good 5* replacement for Xingqiu and Kuki that team can shoot up to Neuv level anytime. Even like this, its already insanely strong and it free the op supports for Neuv premium team to do 120k+ hits (and 100k+ Furina crabaleta hits).
@@Tnscla I'll be honest, I think Nahida's signature is awful. I'll get R5 sacrificial fragments or Evenstar at as high of a refinement as I possibly can before even thinking about getting her signature weapon.
I totally agree with you about this. Without raising kuki lv90 to lv100 by a new world level, the only way make hyperbloom can get over the higher hp monster way /boss is make this team access more buff but with kuki/nahida the current artifacts set of them is decent so it will not make some good upgrade about dps scaling and xingqiu I think a good sub dps set like emblem is more helpful than a support set which can do single target dmg per rotation around 1-200k. So getting c2 nahida is good way to boost dps ( ~20%) without a 4th super buffing teammate / high scale dps . I think about this problem from the start of Fontaine era so I had rolled nahida for c1 and now get her c2 for keeping the brainrot style coming up with meta
You could pull 2 new characters with that instead who will perform better than her and can still improve further while Nahida hits her cap at c2 unless you wanna whale. Natlan has been releasing very self sufficient dps characters that get even better with more natlan characters coming out.
@@luminous3558 not every new character offers the same value as a C2 Nahida. And I know people love playing broken main DPS characters but for some of us, we need to like everything about a main DPS before pulling for them. And I don't like Natlan designs or gameplays so far. The supports are kinda hard to skip because of Cinder City but Mualani, Kinich and Chasca are some of the easiest skips of my life.
Jello didn't say anything controversial at all. the multipliers in the new units post-Neuvilette, multiply by the buffing power of xilonen and furina, make it easy to exceed the ceiling of transformative reactions
You can double down on your Kazuha statement all you want. Even if he's not needed on as many teams as before, every account still benefits from having a Kazuha. Unless his grouping gets to Venti levels of usefulness, he is still meta. Some still put him above Xilonen tho I wouldn't go that far, but they are similar enough... 🤷
Dude what are you even on, he never said Kazuha is not benefitting accounts. Kazuha is a character that has gotten so much positive resonance from players that people like you are in disbelief as soon as competition comes up or when their weaknesses are showing. Xilonen has healing, making her great defensively and enabling Furina, unconditional multi wave res shred which is a lot better than grouping in recent abyss twelves, longer buff uptime, works with an additional element being Geo. All of this makes her more modern, complete, flexible and thus more future proof. Kazuha has grouping and can apply elements for certain setups like aggravate or to break shields. His grouping has fallen off and you have to blind to not see that. The only abysses where his grouping felt very relevant was 4.5 and 5.1 which were both during his banner. He’s not unbeatable and stop pretending like he isn’t…
@@HonestToCritic Your comment is just unnecessary, you criticise him for things he would agree with. I think you’re on the same page as him. Kazuha and his grouping are not necessary anymore and he has better competition but he’s still beneficial for an account
Its interesting to say nahida is falling off from the way I've seen it is that since fontaine's release *(As You Said)* they stopped giving dendro too much attention due to how strong nahida turned out to be so they released more forms of DMG from DPSes that outscale hyperbloom at somewhat lower investments To me nahida just stopped growing currently but compared to every element in the game dendro still has the most room for growth and I'd say nahida hasn't reached her peak yet but her peak might not be that high as time goes on because I'm sure the devs will continue this trend for a while longer so we'll see So in one way nahida "Falling Off" slightly but at the same time she stopped "Growing" she's stagnated In other words I agree with the video
And people ignore her C2 for some reason. You dont need to pull more characters, just get more Nahidas and boom you Dendro team is meta again. Keqing and Tighnari doing great with Nahida C2R1 support and they are standard characters.
Rather than 'Falling Off', i prefer to say 'Can't Keep Up'. Reason? Neuvilette off course. With Natlan Character release, rather than stay at his old teamcomp, his team just get more & better. While Nahida stay at her strong yet old niche, 2U dendro application team.
She haven't fallen off, she's just still in the exact same floor as ever, just like your updated guide, be the same for a long time and that they release characters that dont compete with her in the same playground doesnt make her fall off, also she has been the same since the beggining, high dps teams while invested already out-DPS hyperbloom on Nahida release things like HuTao teams always did this), the thing is just like you said, the resin investment, and not everyone wanted to invest resin efficiently, so we cannot conclude that because players are lazy to grind artifacts then the reality of invested artifacts didnt existed since before. In the present day if you want to play many characters Nahida is still your way to go, Keqing, Cyno, Alhaitham, Tighnari, Yae, Nilou, Clorinde among others, Furina release improved Nahida teams because now you can now also invest on the raw poer of talent and resin investment in those characters Nahida supported, "quickbloom" got stronger, how we appreciated dendro was not just "amount of hyperbloom cores generated / amount of hyperbloom cores detonated in X seconds" now investment took much more weight (it was like this since before, people was just blinded about have a easy to get floor that stoped invest more without think they needed more), dendro make many people conformist about resin investment, and that's not a problem with Nahida's performance, and even if you have the oprion you can upgrade Nahida to C2 if you think "she's falling off", also yeah, they released Emilie and Kinich, they releasing 2 (just 2) characters that literally coexists and dont share any teammate in between them with Nahida teams in 99% of scenarios, 100% doesnt make any changes on Nahida's performance
i think u are splitting hairs on semantics. if u replace "fall off" with "not updated", then u wouldn't need to write an essay. once she's updated (e.g. a mavuika burgeon?) she is no longer "not updated". ur reacting to semantics and not the video itself cuz he actually agrees with you if u watch the video
Verry genuine video. All being said here, if you are day one into the game, want to wish on a banner and never wish again to progress through entire story (easily), that is the one banner. This plus one side of Spiral Abyss pretty much secured. That is how hyperbloom works.
Friendly reminder that Neuvilette also doesn't deal "Neuvilette levels of damage." He "requires" full rainbow team before constellations. Which means he is either C1 with 3 of the best supports in the game or C0 using Hyperbloom or some other broken reaction. Or the spin bug. I'm still waiting for Hoyo to buff those Fatui Operatives so the "downside" they gave him is actually a downside. Much love. The Anti Otter-Glazing gang.
@@suzunome47 Man some of y’all just have zero comprehension or understanding of nuance huh? When did he even once imply that Nahida is trash? And calling JELLO a meta slave? Out of every cc? Istg you can’t make this up 💀💀💀
@@infrnlmssh9719 Neuvillette's best team at c0 is the same as his best team at literally all constellation levels. Neuvillette/Furina/Xilonen/Kazuha (double Hydro if you didn't notice). You know what else is better than Hyperbloom for c0 Neuvi? Neuvillette/Furina/Bennett/Xiangling (double Hydro/double Pyro and still better than Hyperbloom). He certainly doesn't "require" a rainbow team. In fact, he doesn't even require a team at all. On his release, people 36 starred Abyss with c0 Neuvillette holding a craftable 4 star weapon and no teammates. You don't beat glazing with more glazing, by the way.
Lol thats funny, I was just thinking about our little Radish today and how strong she is at C0 even in Natlan. Plus she is adorable, especially with the JP VA. Although you are right, I couldn't imagine my accounts without her.
Hoyo “abandoned” Nahida and yet she is one of the most used characters in Abyss. Even the new fav Mualani with her 2Million damage is sitting in B tier just after one patch.
@@alirehman4858 so sucrose is one of the worst units in the game ? Fischl is mediocre af ? Siegewinne is better than Mualani, Clorinde and Kokomi ? Itto is better than Xiao ? Dehya is the best standard 5*, surpassing tighnari ? Dehya is better than Nilou ? Navia is better than Arle ? Chiori is better than Nahida and Yelan ? Lyney is worse than Ayaka ? If u still consider usage rates = meta after me pointing out all of this bs, then ur have peak delusion and cant think for one second.
@@alirehman4858 what determines meta is clear speeds and results. As such, Mualani has by far the fastest clear speeds out of any dps at every investment. Hence why she is the best dps in the game. Nahida and dendro in general with the exception of kinich teams, have slow clear times and gets outpaced fast by crit scaling dps units on decent builds. Hence why she is falling off.
I think it’s mainly the enemy line up that’s nerfing nahida. Just like how venti was king of cc, nahida is queen of pseudo cc with her chain skill, but it’s more effective the more enemies you have. I remember abyss chambers where 8 of those specter bloons that fly everywhere it was so annoying to group and nahida could handle those with ease. We have had abyss chambers with fatui that spawn cincin’s which adds more enemies which helps nahida do more reactions and amplifies her damage. With Fontaine, we get like 4 waves of like 2 enemies each so it really nerfed the effectiveness of nahida because they don’t spawn all at once or in bigger groups.
Nahida's falloff is part of planned obsolescence. Hoyo needs to sell us new shiny characters and they just need to outshine the old shiny characters, however good they were. There's only so many players that will "buy" new characters just because they're new and good looking.
She is still one of the most impactfull pulls for new accounts imo. Quicken, Aggravate, Hyperbloom and more. Having her alone makes these so much better to play and allows for so much comfort. Units like Furina, Kazuha, Xilonen make your teams better but they do not offer a good starting point for a new player. Neuv and Nahida are imo the 2 biggest 5* pulls a fresh account could make.
They said this is just their "opinion" so don't take everything they said as "true". 1:43 the best "f2p teams" still uses nahida to this day (and i mean the low investment f2p teams, not the "f2p eventually" teams they mentioned). basically no character has been added to replace nahida in the hyperbloom/burgeon/super-bloom teams. Nahida is still the premiere option there as she's basically the highest dendro applying character to this day. 5:30 this is statement is a bit misleading. Genshin has not released chars that synergizes well with nahida then of course those teams won't need her. That doesn't mean she's magically not the BiS in the respective teams she specializes in. She's still "BiS" in (f2p teams mentioned above and) aggravate teams if we're talking about just pure damage, as nahida has no interrupt resist like baizhu or kirara, and non-flexible on-field chars struggle with nahida reapplication in multi-wave, but this is besides the point. Clorinde aggravate, yae aggravate, Sethos aggravate etc. basically any dendro team that uses fischl also wants nahida (again if we're talking just pure damage). i know what they meant by "falling off" that recently genshin has been releasing chars that nahida is not BiS in. But does that mean all her previous teams that she's BiS in is now rendered obsolete? of course not. Basically genshin did not do anything to buff hyperbloom/burgeon/super-bloom niche as they saw how good it is as a baseline. On another note, Nahida has always been this character that made the floor damage higher, but not necessarily the ceiling. Mualani vape, yes you can slot nahida in, is she the BiS in terms of highest damage? nope, go do the speedrun teams where you use xilonen and kazuha 😂. Neuvillette hyper-vape (neuv, raiden, dehya, nahida) does this team deal good damage? yes its a mixture if neuv damage and transformative damage. Is this neuvillette's ceiling damage? nope. Same can be said for hyperbloom, is it enough to 36* abyss? yes. But is the ceiling for hyperbloom team the highest? nope I can go on and on discussing about this. like the point of nahida is not cause you want the highest damaging team, but more so you can get the damage baseline much quicker than any other teams. This is why i distinctively say "f2p teams" and "f2p eventually teams" both are f2p but one you can achieve faster and easier (yes even with the new sets, you still need good artifacts to make the character feel good, you can't just put the correct mainstat and you magically have a character that outdmages "f2p teams") edit: tldr Nahida didn't "fall off", but more like the teams she's good at has been "stagnant" as they're already really good as a baseline. Improving a really achievable damage-floor would be kinda bad for the game, as any DPS is immediately playing "catch-up" to that baseline which was already kinda hard to achieve for old DPS', what more if genshin actually improved it. So no, "stagnant" does not mean "fall off" in this context.
@@alexanderericson8628 I'm still shocked at the quality differences. Her animations, depth and voice acting felt like another level. Natlan is fire so far. 🔥 You can kind of feel we are moving towards the "end" and that they have competition.
Being an archon I doubt she’ll completely fall off. Venti is still way better than most give him credit for. I’ll be investing in Nahida’s c2 and hopefully some Kuki cons 🤩
Great analysis on how the game has made resin investment less and less of a requirement to have a team 36☆ ready with new characters. Never thought of it that way!
Recency bias is strong with this one. Either that or you needed click bait. Regardless, Nahida literally can’t fall off if she is STILL irreplaceable in her teams. Emilie being more compatible with Natlan characters LITERALLY does not mean she’s more meta than nahida now. Just because other team comps with strong characters exist and nahida may not fit doesn’t mean her pull value decreases. If sumeru came out today and Natlan two years ago, you would be SO quick to change this narrative entirely. Because then it would be “omg shiny new hyper bloom!” Burning is falling off! Lmao. Does this mean you’re gonna say that neuvilette is “falling off” when cryo becomes meta after the cryo archon is released because he can’t fit on those new meta teams?? Lmao make it make sense. Or better yet, just let meta encompass more than whatever is the newest thing to release.
It's not recency bias if it's acknowledging powercreep. The meta encompasses not the newest teams, but the top 5, 10, maybe 15 teams (wherever you can draw a clearer line). It just so happens that characters like Neuvillette and Mualani now take up more slots in those top teams, pushing Dendro teams and Nahida out of the meta.
Well, Nahida isn't falling off. There's just other options. You can get her and won't disappoint, especially if you are a new player where your only Dendro option is Dendro Traveler and Collei
I have C2 Nahida and has destroyed everything with ease with her. I honestly don't ever see a need for me to pull another Dendro character ever again lol.
I understand the Points made but "Nahida is getting WORSE" is a bit of a reach IMO- I feel like Genshin players will never get the feeling of a unit ACTUALLY getting worse and falling off (Maybe only Eula mains), I play hi3 and its sad to see all our old valks straight up not being used anymore because of the newer ones just powercreep everyone, unless they have INSANE investment. People started using Nahida less because we now have more options than dendro, dendro teams in itself are not bad
I think there are two factors at play. 1) Certain characters, like Cyno, can't afford to swap off. 2) In most of the single player content (because Abyss is 1x per month), enemies die too fast. This means that her elemental skill, even with its low cool down, isn't available again for the next wave, and that, for QoL reasons, there's no reason to swap to her, when you can just kill the mobs like that anyway. Basically, it isn't that she's bad at multiwave. It's that most enemies have way too low hp compared to the damage we're routinely dealing these days.
My issue is more because everything die before she get her skill again. They should stop with multiwaves and gave us more tanky ennemies but without multiwaves. So the same dps check is ok, but just less waves.
If it bugs you in wave content, you can always put deepwood on sm like Kuki to shred res even when Nahida's E is not on enemies. Or even on dps themselves. It works fine.
I personally think that characters in general don't get powercrept. I just think that people think the game is "solved" and therefore don't try anything new. So old characters' potential remains hidden. You can see this in the fact that every team follows the same rotations and archetype: - Hypercarry - Dendro reactions (Because in Quicken it don't matter who triggers and HB/Burgeon you control the trigger) - Reverse Vape/Melt (Because the reaction coefficient helps you control the trigger) Then (Skill + Burst + swap)x3 into carry/driver. For Nahida, most of her kit besides the Dendro app goes unnoticed. I'm sure there has to be some hidden tech/rotation that can push her and her team's damage/versatility up. She has the EM buff, she can extend her uptime up to 25 seconds, increase her dendro app and her personal damage. People just have to break the mold and think outside the box. Maybe experiment with timing/rotations to get double hyperbloom, build her damage up with some teamwide ATK/EM buffs. Maybe support for simultaneous reactions (Overvape, Thundering Furries, Fridgebloom, some Taser shenanigans). She does kinda suck a little for multiwave fodder content tho.
I feel like dominant doesn't matter the main goal is to clear the abyss and it does it fine for very low amounts of investments its definitely the route for free to play as you only need 1 5star
Could you try to value character strength at higher constellations for older characters that had multiple reruns? I started last year and think of going for her constellations instead of wishing for new characters to replace the old. You value character strength in clearing the Spiral Abyss but I think it doesn’t matter. I’ve been told anyone can clear especially if we invest and have multiple constellations or 5 star weapons. The spiral abyss now is 18 minutes of content once a month that rewards a single ten pull once every 3 months. I don’t think wishing for a single 5 star just for that is worth it. Let alone the fact we need 8 characters to try it. Looking only at C0 is relevant to people who never got the character before but there are many veteran players that did. For us C2 could be the same primogem investment as C0 because we already have copies.
1- he talked about pulling for constellations in this video... 2- what's the point of these videos if not for SA? Like, are you expecting videos for the strength of characters against overworld Saurians? And SA is 800 Primogems a month, so that's every 2 months not 3. 3- if you find the need for 8 characters prohibitive... You probably need horizontal investment, not vertical. 4- Investment is not infinite. Resin is a finite resource. 'Anyone can clear abyss with enough investment' is misleading, the amount more you'd have to farm for a Hypercarry Raiden vs a Hypercarry Neuvillette is meaningful. (Note these comments of mine are coming from one of the most vertically-invested F2P players.)
You are right, the difference between my Alhaitham-nahida team vs my Neuvillette-furina is big. But i would say, dendro is still top tier for the casuals/newer players who often dont farm artifact, but she is not near a must pull anymore for the veterans/hardcores. Also, damn oh her birthday? Cmon 💀
I feel like the more time passes, the more the archon from the older elements fall. Like Raiden, which I feel like she is not enough nowadays at c0 compared to other dps's
But why look at c0 for old characters? Many players aren’t new and could potentially get multiple constellations of the same character because they had many reruns. I doubt old players continue to wish for new characters after they collected old ones. But maybe I’m wrong
@@ThePenguinsKing I agree, good constelations increase the meta potential of the characters. Even nowadays Raiden's c2 is still really good. Nahida also become a monster with her c2.
@@ThePenguinsKing or better yet, why spend even more on old units that have been done and dusted when for the same price u can get new toys that are as powerful as a C2 old unit, straight out of the gate
@haruhiiragi6324 Or even better, if you have C2 Raiden and C1 Hu Tao you can skip all dpcs for 2 years, pull broken supports at C1-C2 and outperform clowns who pull for every new shiny toy at C0.
I guess it's a pattern now that archons, considered the strongest characters in meta when their region comes eventually fall off like raiden. I just really hope this never happens with furina but i guess it's impossible for fontaine characters keeping up on top for the next 2 years 😭
Vids like these make me laugh as someone whos still doing the main story quest in genshin like "idc about the abyss an the endgame i just wanna breeze past the sameru an natlan quest even easier then i already can" lol
Fallen off? You mean, the teams she works with are still the/one of the best. I still use her in every new abyss since i got her. For me she hasn’t fallen off she just works with the team i have her on every abyss reset.
Altri im for sure biased bc she’s been my main since I pulled her: when I got her, I was about AR 45 or sm, playing on mobile and a very skill issue player that hates combat. After a while of building her she (w a hyperbloom team) can carry me thru left everything in the game. Everything. Love my radish 💚
The problem is that the enemies in abyss nowadays have insane amount of HP! The same Nahida team that I used to comfortably 36 star the abyss cannot now even complete one part of a chamber in 2 minutes. It's the same treatment as Venti. They overtuned him back then, and then nerfed him to the ground, they are doing the same with Nahida. While she still is usable she is definitely falling off! Idk if this is an issue with hoyoverse itself, as the same problem exists in HSR and i might say it's much much worse there, or gacha games in general are very poor at balancing the characters and the enemies and the game in general.
Saying Nahida has fallen off is like saying Arle is like saying Arle or neuvi have fallen off beacuse Mualani has a higher damage potential.. it's not that a character has "fallen off" essentially, it's more so that there is now a different type of enemies in the abbyss.
i think u are just splitting on semantics and not actually addressing the video. his point is that there was a sharp powercreep post-Neuvilette release, and it's obvious why. hoyo needed to surpass hyperbloom to make their characters attractive to spend on
I'm pulling for her C2. She becomes slightly more relevant in the burning slot. Oddly enough, I have been having a good time playing Tighnari in a burning team. It's triple dendro with Bennet, Emilie and Nahida. I know Dehya or Xiangling make so much more since for either resonance, damage or IR but I thoroughly enjoy watching the enemies health bar slowly, but consistently widdle down, even while taking a flurry of talent damage. My Emilie is C2 R1 and my Tighnari is C3 so maybe my perspective is too skewed but, I thoroughly enjoy pure burning teams and the reaction.
Burning, Burgeon, Superconduct and Electrocharged watching this... D:< Genshin has delivered on pushing forward non meta stuff into being viable almost meta totally usable for abyss 12 but on that same note some other things are still waiting for their chance to be viable, usable and endgame reliable while Nahida has always been in a perfect spot, currently has everything and is still and continue being spoiled for options and newer options as long as the player is willing to try variety and is not a hyper optimizing meta sheep slave, without even needing to dive into the weird shenanigans like hyperblurngeonverload stuff
I'm about 3-months into the game and have been following your "If you have these 5-Stars you BEAT THE GAME" video advice. I've been super lucky getting Yelan, Kazuha, and Xilonen early (and Raiden at soft pity), and only lost my first 50/50 super early to Jean, and was really looking at grabbing Nahida in the upcoming banner based on your past advice. Considering your must-have 3, choose 3, and pick any 2 layout, this feels like a 180 on the original plan with Nahida no longer being "essential", yet Neuvillete who was a tier below is somehow easier to build and a better pick now. You should consider updating this video and fairly quickly considering that not only do we got Xilonen, Kinich, Mualani, Emilie, Clorinde and Arlecchino (and Xianyun?) since that video came out, but they also had a massive impact on previously released characters such as Navia, and Neuvillette in particular. Most importantly with the Xilonen banner live (for a few more hours) and Nahida, Neuvillette, Zhongli and Mauvika around the corner, this would be extremely useful info to have for anyone that started playing in the past half a year or so.
If im not mistaken, Nahida is a great on burning teams with Emily. Id say she has gotten better with the burning meta. If you have her C2, the burns can crit!
TGS will tell you otherwise, that Nahida isn't that good with Emilie. And I can see where he's coming from. The problem is team slots. 1 pyro, Emilie, and Nahida leaves you with a single slot left. And that's usually someone playing off the burning, like a cryo or hydro. But at that point, you don't really need the strong dendro app Nahida provides, and without an electro, her elemental skill's ICD isn't reduced, which greatly reduces her damage potential. So it comes down to a situation where, for most teams that use Emilie, the opportunity cost of using Nahida is too high. That said, I run Nahida with Emilie in one of my Abyss staple teams, and it works great. So I do think his take is off, that the two do work well together. But, well, there just aren't that many teams that want both.
@@Lumiphatom Nahida isn’t great on burning teams with Emilie, she just works. Nahida entire kit is nearly null and void on that team, as her damage will be negligible, and her em wasted. Unless you’re playing like a burn melt team with two dendros, which just why? There’s always a better slot you can put in with Emilie over Nahida. Great is a significant overstatement. She’s just usable at best with Emilie.
Anybody else just staying subscribed to Jello because he's fun and entertaining and not because you actually trust his opinion? LoL. I'm kinda getting tired of rebuking his takes every other video at this point and just go, sure man. Highly advice newbies to the game to take his opinions with the biggest grain of salt and just doing your own research.
Emilie burn teams are clearly the new meta going forward with xilonen and the pyro archon, she’s BiS for Mualani, also BiS teammate for Kinich with the pyro archon, not to mention Citlali future burn-melt teams and last but not least THE GOAT CAPITANO burn-melt copium.
for Kinich yea she's current BiS. but not for mualani. Mualani's best 4th slot right now is either candace or kazuha or zhongli if needed, and some argue furina,
Emilie is not bis for Mualani and Nahida is better than her in her team if you want a dendro characters when your Mualani is high invest. The reason is simple, Nahida can buffs Mualani and everything who buffs Mualani is better to use instead of a sub dps.
This. 100% Correct Take! I own both Fully built @ C0 and I forgot to use Xilonen in Abyss. I 36-star with Nahida+Yelan+XQ+Kuki and Arlechino+Zhongli+KAzuha+Bennett. I Sure will forget to use Xilonen in the Future again. LOL
Honestly my Nahida C2 still make the game so easy to play in abyss and everything. There is no challenge. At this point, I don't care about her falling off or not, I don't feel the same for sure. I don't need someone stronger than her too.
Jello, big fan, here for a while But I think a better way to phrase this is "Nahida is not the overwhelming meta presence she used to be, because they are focusing on other reactions."
3.0 - Dendro(Nahida) lowered the requirment of how to 36 star. It didn't raise the ceiling, it made the ceiling more obtainable. 4.0 - Fountaine uped the ceiling with Nuev and Aler and w/ multiwave introduced into the Abyss. 5.0 - Natlan we're seeing the ceiling raised once again however not with single chars but w/ a combination of chars. We all know the Abyss ceiling will continue to be raised (creating pull incentives) By the time we get to Abyss 5.7 and 5.8 will hyperbloom still work? That's the real question. By 5.7 will a C0 Nahida, C6 XQ, C2 Kuki and C6 Fischl be able to 36? Maybe yes maybe no. But objectively it's probably better to spend the 80 pulls on a Mauvika con instead of Nahida C2 or Hutao C1. I think everyone gets that newer chars will have an easier time with future Abysses. Ulimately it comes down to Hoyo. I mean they made Genshin, they can sure figure this out. We absloutely love these chars. I'm sure they will find a way to buff old chars. In fact they have been doing exactly that with the likes of Xianyun (Diluc). I wouldn't worry too much about the fall of Dendro. Eventually Venti will get a buff too, you just wait and see.
I’ve seen people defuse bombs with less care than gacha game content creators trying not to upset their viewers by suggesting their characters are anything less than optimal
tbh, it's not Nahida falling but just the dendro element in general, and since she is bis in almost every dendro comp, she had to follow. Still, dendro may not be top meta anymore, but when it works it's still very solid imo.
I hate to admit it but I agree. I have an alt which was in a very sad state until I accidentally got c1 Neuvi. After that I decided to play it more often and I pulled a few more characters. I got Kazuha, I got early Navia, Raiden, Xilonen and Nahida. And between all these characters and no Kuki on the account I find hard time finding a spot for Nahida. Yeah I could slap her on Neuvi team with Raiden as hyperbloom trigger, but I'm one character away from best Neuvi team so im not gonna force him into hyperbloom
Imo if they want to do another dendro character, they should make a dedicated burgeon support. Dendro is already at a really good position so they shouldn’t buff it that much
nothing could stop me from loving the dook-dook radish! i started playing when she first came out, she was my first 5 star. and now shes c6! nahida lovers unite!
this one is a very good take. regarding on hyperbloom future, i do believe that hyperbloom is already stable at a high ceiling enough that it does not need anymore buffs to get back in the game. its already good enough to stay on top.
And this is the disadvantage of supports. Even though their life expectancy is normally longer than dps, they still rely on their dps’ meta to stay relevant
Hyperbloom is already cracked they need to buff spread and aggrivate with Iansan being a quicken buffer. Giving a nahida back her throan. Especially nahida c-2 which im throwing the 333 fates ive saved over 7 months for ❤
This video reached the wrong audience, everyone hating. Like nahidas dendro application is best, but kazuha, xilonen, furina, yelan are just so much better if you dont use any dendro team.
Oh Jello... must we do this song and dance every time you release a video like this? Let me break it down by points. 1. Saying Nahida has fallen off is like saying Alhaitham has fallen off and that is PATENTLY FALSE. Alhaitham hyperbloom is top 5 Strongest DPS in Genshin Impact since release and Nahida is best in slot on ALL OF HIS TEAMS, so just by that nature alone... you have failed. 2. When Dendro released, it rocked the very foundation of the game. Dendro made geo obsolete (Not a single geo Sumeru character exists), K*ll3d cryo outright, knocked anemo down, replaced pyro as the "DPS element" (burning reaction being the weakest), brought Electro back from the grave and crown Hydro as the King of Elements. This was no small thing and throughout version 3 and 4 dendro DOMINATED all content. The devs, understandably so, made the decision to bring back some of these other elements dendro had, essentially, replaced with the whole nightsoul mechanic and the cinder city set and you took that as dendro being a garbage element now, only because the devs did not want people to forget about other elements. Now you might say "I am not saying dendro has fallen off!", Jello... Nahida IS DENDRO and your thumbnail and title says it all. All that happen was that the other elements have now been raised to be ON PAR with Dendro. You got so used to Dendro being THE HIGHEST DAMAGE IN THE GAME, that you fail to realize what the devs are actually trying to do here. 3. Your video is going to age like milk left out in a bayou swamp when Ifa comes out and the new dendro nightsoul mechanics are introduced with the new artifacts sets of version 5.5 or 5.7 when the Collective of Plenty tribe of Natlan is released.
i actually never cared about hyperbloom, my fav teams with nahida are ele chars so i care more about quicken and aggravate ;] and still nahida yae raiden and xilo team is one of best so far ;x and dont forget that nahida can mark all enemies so she's still one of best char to deal damage to multiple enemies at once
