Narrative Legos with Ken Levine - GDC 2014 

10 years later and he is finally doing a game that uses this very concept

Who's here a decade later?

You can tell Ken was supposed to be a “Creative Director”.. he calmly speaks but easily puts his point across without getting too smart or analytical about it. The man is great at what he does and Bioshock will forever remain a powerhouse of storytelling and world building. Looking forward to whatever Ken has planned next!

I was very sad when hear that Ken leaving Ir and starting something new. After watching this, I understand his goal better. Now I'm looking forward to see what he will present for the next project. It doesn't even matter whether or not it will be successful, he absolutely have some amazing idea in place. I'll support that development even the first project turns out crap.

I like the idea of taking the traditional approach of "do stuff for faction until you unlock the quest" but then having the quest you unlock change depending on what your relationship with other factions are

I think we still havent even scratched the surface of what games can do with story. Even with games like Witcher...most of the story and choices made are thru dialogue trees. I think in the future we should have games where story is driven by regular gameplay, too. Like imagine if in a fantasy RPG, you kill everyone in a single town. Then news of that town pretty much just disappearing spreads throughout the world. And since you pretty much commited mass murder, your character's personality changes in cutscenes because of that- like if u used stealth to kill everyone, he sounds devious and cunning, but if you just confronted everyone face on when u killed them, he could sound angry and cruel all the time. Or maybe when u do certain really good or bad acts, you become more famous/infamous to the people around you- gangs try to beat you up, and townspeople ask you more for help or try to run away from you

8 years later and I'm returning to this video after watching the trailer for Judas. I'd agree with other comments in this thread that we still haven't really surpassed the narrative versatility of a game like Fallout New Vegas in Western RPGs yet. I'm interested in seeing what scale of story Ghost Story wants to tell. The narrative seems to be centered around a damaged starship, will it be smaller in scope than the region-spanning F:NV? Also, how much will the lead character's personality and emotion change based on player choices? How large will the factions we deal with be? I've also assumed the game will be open world based on the examples Levine is referencing like Civilization. But will it be? What would a non open world game with narrative legos behave like?

A design for a SPECIFIC game, a product PITCH, a SPECIFIC development plan, an INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. I am here ken! Play your ace in the hole!

Levine its been 4 years my friend... im growing impatient.

Oh my god... Ken is making real life Westworld.

Wow. The insight and clarity offered in this presentation is starting to make me think... Ken Levine downsizing at Irrational might be one of *the most beneficial things to happen to the industry*.

One of my life goals is Ken Levine's autograph on a body part

Ken Levine, become a lecturer damn son

That was a really interesting talk. I'm interested as to whether this change in direction is purely business focused or due to a creative interest. Either way, as a fan of single player linear narratives, it's a genuine shame to lose Levine's future contributions into the genre.

The passion system sounds like the faction system from Fallout: New Vegas, but with every star being it's own faction

Ken clearly *has* the vision for the future of gaming. Others have spoken of this, but few have mapped & charted the course to get there. It's clear a game should eventually evolve like the gamer does. Let it breath like another mind so you keep coming back to see new or great challenging experiences that you feel, emote, care about, & learn from. Philosophy is a critical part of this all where games become less "widget" or but evolve creating new experiences that grow. Price point will be higher, but take 50 shitty $60 games, vs. one amazing $1000 game. This could be as soon as 2025

He sounds like Heath Ledgers Joker haha.

Wonder how Ken's progress is like for this vision at this point. As much as I love and will continue to love action RPGs, in the back of my mind I can't help but think about how they have a fixed number of possible endings created by writers (not to de-value the importance of writers and some of the cool endings we get in some games). Of course part of what a game tries to do is create the illusion of having your choices and the ending you arrive at be your own, but it gets harder to buy into that illusion at times. More than any other new release, this is probably the thing that I've been most looking forward to in some time (alright, aside from a new Silent Hill....)

I would love to hear what he thinks about Baldurs Gate 3

The world grows closer to the world of Bioshock and yet we haven't heard a thing about your new game in 6 years Ken Levine. We are waiting.

And a decade later he can finally make this concept work!

Hi kevin, just finished Infinite for the 6th time probably... we really need more of it! Please! :)

Bioshock infinite is one of the best games ever created

Ahh, Morrowind. NPCs can react negatively or positively to personal passions and also faction related global passions. NPCs can refuse giving certain information if they don't like you. You can piss a whole faction while keeping an individual from that faction as a friend or vice versa, unscripted by the disposition system as it is systematized completely, unattended by developers. Some even would call it broken for that open endedness. And Morrowind main quest is such a backdrop, most forget about it and some don't even know it exists. This talk is like a presentation for my Morrowind 2.0 dream. Good call out on Bethesda, Ken Levine! They should have been on Morrowind 4.0 by now.

I'm very much looking forward to it. It sounds like a very unique and player-driven experience. I hope to see this game in 3-5 years! :D

I am preordering the next game he puts out, the literal second it's anounced.

6:24 i guess this is what currently happening at Ken's project now?

I think it's a good idea to limit the number of 'stars' not just because of the player's ability to keep track, but also because the system would likely suffer a lot when the computer itself can't keep track of what's going on and have the 'stars' react appropriately. That should be easier if there's less to keep track of in the first place. But I imagine that it might simply be too tricky to accomplish, as the permutations might grow so quickly that a game that's complex enough to be interesting to play will always end up being too complex to keep track of. 41:20 One motivation for making 'stars' dislike the player could consist of appearing to have the moral high ground when those 'stars' are provoked into hostilities. That perceived moral high ground could determine how other 'stars' react to the conflict that ensues. After all, those other 'stars' should probably be a tiny bit concerned that they might be next in line to be killed unless the player seems to merely defend against attacks.

Utterly unfeasible in the setting he's picked in this presentation, but in a spaceship with only 3 stars? That's when I get excited. Big potential here.

One big frustration with modern video game design, is if you try to be nice to EVERYONE, then you default to nuetrality and losing, instead of getting to be a high level hero, because rewards for completing content are insufficient to aid players against endgame content without throwing all the player weight behind a narrative ally that might not exactly be compelling enough to be "cool". Furthermore, I haven't had an OS add-in in over 25 years. I've made suggestions for updating Windows 10 taskbar and print screen/record and clipboard, al very clever hacks, even the keyboard mouse input being replaced with something better than either, but it's very difficult to get any OS-level access to implement it. It's mostly static. Who designs this stuff? Games for Windows is a death sentence... One thing that Diablo 3 does really well is vary the monster/enemy personas with modular elements that can combine in interesting ways. Character model shape, size, skills, elemental properties, all combine in interesting ways to vary the combat. This methodology could easily be used to procedurally generate points of interest (Quests, a la Star Wars Galaxies), and Allies and quest givers. It's mostly a matter of swapping variables (Like the example with Orcs/Dwarves/Elves/Goblins, you could simply swap the nomenclature and visual/audio input that makes the player identify with the content). I suspect a lot of modern engines are Bespoke, and implement data harvesting of players' lives, to introduce drama, stress, and unique narratives, but it can be psychically harmful if the player doesn't get what they want and is faced with too many black and white choices, if the designer is not effectively telling their story and balancing resources with edification through artwork, and if the difficulty curves and statistics are super-competitive. WoW Classic was supposed to offer gameplay elements like this with "Reputation" and "PvP rankings", but it was never made available to players like me because the time investment would be "Grind kills all day every day for years on end". Reputation isn't necessarily the only way to advance player activities, there can also be physical (geographic/architectural) thresholds, like nearness to a monster generator or resource mine, or co-positional item inventory thresholds, like a gun that gets a new type of ammo, or maybe a new style arrowhead for your bow, or even point and click adventure style unlocks where you can't get to the new area until you use an inventory item with an environmental object, or solve an environmental puzzle that isn't too cryptic. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are lots of ways of allowing players to drive the narrative, and be driven. The last question mentioning thematic and overarching patterns and atmospheric qualities are important in making games with more than just a handful of these systems possible, and I think systems like the one I am trying to design for my wordpress page with copresent tags are rife for exploitation in determining who or what constitutes a theme that can be modularized and statistically mapped to generate an enjoyable experience, add-ons be damned, and add-ins be praised.

Thank you. I have been looking around for this talk. What a genius!

Wow, fascinating talk. I hope developers take this on board, games could really start to differentiate themselves from movies. In MGS Ground Zeros, I've spent 20 hours replaying the main mission and its spoiled other open-world games for me, they just seem inferior in comparison. It feels so open and free, like you can do anything, now imagine this level of open-gameplay with the open story structure witch Ken is talking about here, THAT would be INSANE!!

oh ken it's near 2017... give us more information.

ken, you still amaze me, you have the guts to do something you will be frowned on for, and still you continue to make games. I know that you didn't lay off those people for money, prophet, and just for selfish reasons, NO you did it because AAA gaming was getting to you so you started over. Good luck ken you still amaze me and can't wait for your game :) keep it coming dude

so ken levine is making elder scrolls 6 confirmed

I guess it's kind of already started with Shadow of Mordor and the nemesis system and a little bit with Far Cry 4 and the randomized animal attacks.

With some points he is saying i have to disagree. He says linear games aren´t repayable. I think thats a cliche. Actually the most replay fun i get from games are high quality (!!!) linear games like The Last Of Us. My first play through was very offensive, i had many gun and fist fights. But as i played it again and again on harder difficulties this changed. I went more stealthy and the game showed itself to me from a whole different side: as a stealth game! I think it´s more about how to do it the right way. If you make a complex gameplay that you fill with a big variety of elements it can have a really high replay value.

SPOILER ALERT. Some things about TV Shows Dexter and Game of Thrones in the Q&A section by the audience. What kind of dumbass calls out a spoiler and then only after the fact says 'spoiler alert' my gawd. Ken is not to blame, doesn't put a foot wrong.

I mean, just imagine the amount of work it'd be to do all the animations, voice overs, etc. for each of these scenarios. And most of the work wouldn't even be seen by the average player unless they played it over and over again. This is something for far down the road when AI is much more advanced and can fill in the gaps - eventually we'll probably have AI crafting narratives on the fly.

Elf Wooing Simulator 2014.

Plus sometimes it is really nice to feel as just some other character and not some transcendent star

I don't think the player should have complete power. I love this talk and think this system is amazing, but the player should be a piece of the puzzle - not the one piecing it together.

In my opinion he is planning on making a combination between world of warcraft, skyrim, Game of thrones + the walking dead or mass effect moral choices

Lego is an uncountable noun. Narrative Lego.

Feel like he's been living inside my head. Had me with Civilization.

Wow, he really does sound like the Joker.

I know it's a very basic narrative based linear game BUT Wing Commander 3 and 4 were AWESOME at story paths.

ALL games DO NOT have to be NONLINEAR.

Is it just me or does this guy sound like the joker bruh😭

What the hell is Ken doing... it's been 4 years and we haven't seen anything from him? How's he still in a job right now...? Confused

2 Ken Levine, I don't like Bioshock's, but a really want to play your nex game. Also, you should play White Gold: War in Paradise. Those system are implemented there, maybe in a simpler way, but still.

6 years...

It seems like a more advanced version of The Sims. I think what would be interesting is introducing this concept into a linear game like Bioshock Infinite.

If a game character ever passes the Turing test, would it be inhumane to kill it?

The new game shadow of mordor has touched on this game mechanic but I can see Ken Levine is talking about a much larger scale.

Now we know why after 8 year it still didn't exist

Okay so, this is exactly what Alanah Pearce was talking about. He has been working on it for more than 5 years

i fucking love dark cloud 2

This is what Warren Specter has been talking about for at least twenty years.

So Ken Levine is trying his hand at the Faction game. A idea that has been talked about for at least 10 years by now, and here is what Ken Levine is going to learn: Exponential development is EXPONENTIAL. This all sounds great when you consider the beginning of the game, but how on earth do yeah add enough man hours to fill the late parts of the game. Every choice creates repercussions that is simply staggering once you actually start to code it out. He had 150 million dollars, 100 employees, and was the highest respected Game Designer in the industry, and he still FAILED at doing this in Bioshock Infinite.

I bet he hired people to be there, then fired them when it ended

Thank you for this

It's 2018 now ken when is your next big game coming

Something I would ask Ken. If you make the Star's Passions every game the same, as the designer you got control over the game but it makes the replayability poor. But if you make it random from a wider pool like Ken said, couldn't it be possible to result in some unbalanced system? Say, for example, it's far better to be allied with the elves because less people from other villages will be mad at me for that.

I know he said he didn't announce anything but i'd want that fantasy world simulator so bad. Just more focus on characters and narrative and not really combat.

WOULD YOU KINDLY JUST MAKE ANOTHER BIOSHOCK ALREADY?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

No main quest... eh. I can't help but think it will make the experienec feel aimless or pointless.

This is almost exactly the character dynamic system already used in like two million Japanese galgame/dating sims....

Can we make that fantasy simulator Game of the year? Or at least honorable mention?

I want a monument island lego set.

Dwarf Fortress has featured a completely nonlinear, systemic narrative structure built into the game long before even this talk 10 yrs ago

ken if ur reading this get the game out already i fking luv u

PS Vita BioShock! That didn't age well.

Why did we get 3 uncharted, gears of war, mass effect, Bioshock, 3 Bethesda studio games and now we're lucky if we get 1 freaking game. We aren't even getting elder scrolls this gen

Didn't they do this in Baldur's Gate 2 already?

fallout 3 did that when you pissed off one faction they send people out to kill you. I think this is a good goals for fallout games

9:02 "single-player mmo design" wait what? Oh, he probably meant open-world mission-based design, huh?

Has the reactive macro-bar system been done, but a bit weaker and less complex, in the last two Fallout games?

I dont know... for me it sounds like the Mass Effect series (the first one was the most complex in terms of social gameplay i think) And, god, i can see a HUGE amount of bugs comming lol.

KEN LEVINE REVEALS NEW GAME. -_- lulz

Wish this guy would help make a bioshock 4 but I think that unfortunately that series was finished-

JUDAS HYPE

anyone else stricken by how similar to Dragon Age: Inquisition this is?

He might be regretting going this route now.

You want to know how I got these scars? I stepped on a narrative lego.

Goddamn! Kevin Levine, why you do this. why you do this

Isn't he just describing "The Sims" ?

they care not for who the blood flows 😂

WHERE IS HE

Cameramen hate him

What happens if you don't do anything and remain truly neutral?

So, reinvent c&c?

I never noticed before... but his face reminds me of an actor. Not sure whos.

I was really disappointed by this talk simply because Levine isn't discussing anything groundbreaking. All of these faction relationships, relationships with characters, zero sum systems, this has all been done in games before, in the Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Fable franchises among others. I played Bioshock Infinite because the first Bioshock was a game unlike anything I've ever experienced. I've always looked to Ken for innovation, but this, while I do realize that these are just very broad concepts, just sounds like the next evolution of Fable.

42:52

ya so this game is vaporware. its now been 5 YEARS! and nothing to see...

infinite was shit, not buying another product even if they make a bioshock hd remake for next gen. Butthurt about the real potential the company had with future bioshock games, and hate to see it all gone basicly and a new idea that really did fuck the company over. I remember playing bioshock 1 on the xbox when i was in my middle teens and it was an amazing game with not many similar titles (at the time) out there. Kills me to see the talented members of the company now looking for new jobs based on a fucking shit decision that ultimately ken and other big shots made.

Interesting but it sounds like another Skyrim and what i want him to do is systembioshock 3 on currentgen consoles.

I know i might be a little late(7 years in fact), but is he just describing the faction system in fallout: new vegas?

46:27 cameraman you had one job