Excellent conversation. Personally I would like to here more of some technical details of this fascinating concept: Considering these are refractive lenses, what are the wavelengths those telescopes will operate? What will be distances between each individual telescope? What are aligning / control methods and thus fuel capacity or projected lifespan for each telescope? And Thank You for all this science work and pushing our knowledge!
100% the best Telescope idea I've ever seen. Mostly since they are going about it from a scalable manufacturing perspective. Also the ability to find and gain revenue in multiple ways makes this super exciting. If a was a billionaire I would invest in this heavily and make it a reality a soon as possible. This could easily be a profitable private company. Imagine renting out Telescope time. With scalability you can donate time to science, and rent time to pay for more Telescopes. Amazing!!!!
The best idea is mine , building a telescope as large as the solar system by deploying small telescopes all over the moons in the solar system and stich them tougher via Software to become one huge telescope 😊
Great interview . You asked all the right questions and the gentleman answered them clearly and succinctly. Better than 99% of the clickbait AI generated robo-speech crap in this RU-vid space. Subscribed.
You could build one on earth, using drones to carry and position and aim small mirrors, then focus the mirrors on a collector, then work on the programming to do all this and analyze the resulting image! I would LUV to get into that.
The future of telescopes needs developments like this. This is revolutionary work that is much further along than I had realized. An amazing project that is close to its first uses. Thanks so much for sharing this.
Thank you for covering this amazing advance in space telescopes! With the advent of inexpensive, solid state lasers, coupled with small reflecting mirrors, maintaining an exact distance between telescope modules isn't necessary and instead position in three dimensions can be dynamically calculated with nanometer precision. Station-keeping is no longer an issue. This virtual interferometry method also allows for infinite expansion and an order of magnitude increase of image sharpness.
Love this Fraser! I’ve been super interested in Nautilus ever since your first series on future telescopes. I think it is such a novel and cool way to build space telescopes. You asked phenomenal questions to Daniel and did an awesome job with this interview! Thanks for all you do👊🏼
What i have been saying for years… there is a missed opportunity right now to have a space telescope constellation. The solution is obvious: put telescopes on SpaceX satellites. The most obvious frequencies for a telescope on the backside of SpaceX are the radio frequencies. So when you think of it that way, each spacex satellite is a radio transmitter/ receiver facing earth, and a sensitive receiver facing out into space. But sky is the limit with these things. Throw all kinds of frequencies of light on these telescopes. Here is the reason it is such a great opportunity: spacex would probably be willing to offset the cost of their satellites. So lets say astronomers pay for half the cost of the satellite and launch. That’s a win for both astronomers and spacex.
This is an intensely interesting topic and I look forward to seeing follow-up reports on. This lens technology is a potential game changer. Thanks for posting.
Fraser, you didn't satifactoraly answer my question, 'how are they orientated... Combining the gathered light isn't the problem. What gets all the lenses aligned on one single target, what keeps them from drifting? Do they each have a propulsion system built in, for instance small ion thrusters. How do they know that they are aligned properly?
Thank you Fraser Cain , for the amazing interview with Dr Daniel Apai covering the amazing new telescope being produced right now & the existing fantastic JWST . It all is absolutely amazing that what we have achieved so far . Like WOW ! JWST images are phenomenal. I love this channel & Fraser all topics you cover on your amazing channel is phenomenal hence why i love supporting your channel being a patreon 🫶🏼🫶🏻🫶🏽💖✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️ With Love and light from Niki here in the UK 🇬🇧 Stay Connected 🫶🫶🏽🫶🏻🫶🏼🫶🏿💖😊💖✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️
Honestly the JWST was such a nightmare when it came to it's develooment costs and time frame, i honestly dont see another large budget telescope making it past congress for at least another 50 years. I mean the project was sopposed to cost like $800M and ended up close to $10B and was about 5 years late. It was actually nearly cancelled. I do like the idea of a modular design that can grow via additional pieces. That would also be easier to pass through congress as it's obviously much easier to pork barrell small modular items for a project in the nasa budget vs. another huge telescope project.
They spend more on the Ukraine war in a month. If we remove the war mongers and disown the corrupt politicians, we could have a handful of telescope arrays.
I like the idea of this nautilus, there is a similar idea that Dr David Kipping came up with over on cool worlds calling it the terra scope. Its similar in design in terms of several 'satelitte' telescopes but where it differences in design is that they use the grational lens of large bodies such as earth (thus the name terra) or larger, like the sun.
The Terrascope is about using the Earth's atmosphere as a lens, but you'll still want to look at it with a telescope. So, you could use the Nautilus to look through the Earth's atmosphere and become the Terrascope.
Great interview as usual and an intriguing concept and project. I was disappointed that we didn’t get to hear him say, “I’ll be back”, since to me he sounded so much like Arnold Schwarzenegger.🙂
Interesting concept, similar to a concept I had a few years back when everyone was complaining about the starlink satellite system effecting space observation. My suggestion was add a high precision camera to the top of every starlink looking out. Make the data available to anyone one below for free in an open source live transmitted signal and available to others anywhere at a subscription fee. Yes there would be problems linking all the clips of data together but that’s a computational problem not a physical one.
The casings that you ejected in space could be made to fold out like spokes tethering each telescope with corresponding partners, even memory materials that go back to form once released, voila, you have a preformed shape to increase and maintain a predetermined orbit. or build a platform that does what I said except it extends out like spokes, your distance, your strength requirements... it should have a power collection system and be adjustable. Further expansion would require extending the frame infrastructure, the central point would house the communication/central guidance system for alignment with desired objects through ion propulsion tech. located on the outer frame... the array as well could individually direct each telescope.
It also sounds like that instead of temporal shifting the imaging sets you could perform an effect called pixel shifting in photography. Where you get to sample the same image from a sub resolution offset. Which you resemble a sharper image.
I think quantum effects would limit that. The pixels would probably be already close to the quantum diffraction limit for that lens size. Overcoming that limit would require interferometry, which they discussed as having problems which are not addressed by this design, such as needing very high precision in where each telescope is located.
The name is OK but I appreciate naming the scopes after people who have made significant progress. Such as Mr Webb. I therefore submit a proposal to identify this development as the PAST - the Pamela Anderson Space Telescope. As Pamela has brought more happiness to the world than anyone else. And is a star that eclipses even Sol in her beauty.
Glad to hear that this technology can be used for cheaper and larger aperture amateur telescopes. Would love to have my own 1m f3 telescope. The point about collimation is excellent. My 8" newtonian needs collimating every time I haul it out for use. The refractors never need it.
Nice to know the new concept of multiple telescope in space which can be combined to act as single telescope or multiple array of single telescope. Wonderful concept.
This was a very exciting and fascinating interview. One of your best. This has an evolution level perception modification feel to it. Along with possible capability with the superconducting patent filed in Korea last month, we are going into a new phase of technology assisted perception change. The heavens seem to be on their way to a very clear focus for humanity.
I think eventually we will have to build Solar System wide astronomical arrays with "quantum-coupled" optics, combined with all other planet and earth based systems, fed into a computer program, to give us the best possible images. You could even imagine interstellar configurations, but it would take centuries to build and gather information from them.
If you can build large and cheap meta-lenses, I can see a market for large and light weight amateur telescopes. Because of the atmosphere, you could even have them with lower quality.
There might be a possibility which was not talked about: a tool for molding 6 meter lenses with this technology might also be used to spitting out 200mm lenses for consumer level telescopes. With these numbers you could "print" 697 smaller 200mm lenses with mostly the same tools that was used for making the 6000mm telescope lens if its really possible.
is there an origami folding that could unroll pinwheel lens for packing. and material that can make both the shade and optical and radio receiving surfaces that can be shaped accurately . maybe sort of blow-up like a toy. then fixed by chemistry freezing it into a ridged surfaces?
Well, it looks like I won't be alive to see the full scale version of this thing operating in space (because I'm old). I'll have to settle for a smaller, proof-of-concept version. Even that should be pretty amazing.
I like this idea for the L2 point. And you can just keep sending them if they fail:) Very good idea, and a very good idea for the L2 point. I think its a much better idea that Luvoir telescope in development, specially for imaging planets.
@@SjaakSchulteis Yes with current Rockets technologies , Starship Could Change that . Just the amount of propelling that it can put up Into orbit , And the use of nuclear Rockets , Look into the Kewi reactor program the nineteen seventies . You might feel to get the travel time down 2 1 fourth of that .
@@jamesdelrogers542 I think it would be great, but what benefit would you have? The James Webb Telescope looks billions of lightyears into the past from the position where it is. Having a telescope beyond the kuiperbelt would not give so much advantage as the objects would be only a few light hours closer.
Thank you, Fraser! Such great interviews and insights. Love your kind and strictly scientific approach to the topic. One Q: I wonder how a weaker or stronger gravity, given the same initial conditions for life as Earth, would have affected the formation of DNA and evolution in its entirety. Would either scenario influence the presence of life on the surface of a planet, making the search for bio signatures in the atmosphere only a limited tool? It would be nice to see how the single change in external parameters (temperature, pressure, gravity…) would have affected our fundamental structure. It might help widening the definition of “goldilocks zone” and the kind of life we expect to find, eventually.
I’m intrigued by the idea of a precise array of mirrors and a star occlusion device (flower petal?) far away to image planets. To set up for one image however could take considerable energy because of the distances involved between the light gathering components and the occlusion device, and also locating the mirrors. I’ve also wondered about the limits of such a system - is it possible to image say continents within a distance of 100 light years?
A long time ago I saw a BBC show which showed a hologram of a magnifying glass which behaves just like the real object. Seemed like a great idea but I've never seen anything about holographic lenses since. Recently found the show on youtube, "Living Tomorrow - Episode 242 (1979) Holograms UK Science and Technology Programme". See the lens at 4 minutes into the vid. Could a hologram make a good enough lens for a telescope?
Exactly, I have asked about this earlier, practically no weight, and if scientists can puzzle together a picture from gravity lensing they should be able to make corrections from a holographic lense also I would believe?
redundancy and potentially unlimited capture diameter,,, this surely is a giant leap forward MASSIVLY in looking into the universe, extremely exciting prospect!
Seems like it could be even cheaper to build the visible light collecting power on earth. Potentially even just start by using the ones that are already available and connect them using this thing called the internet.
Can’t wait to see the first class of mass produced space telescope _systems_! Sounds like rebuilding SKA in space 🎉 Why not build a dozen more JWSTs and arrange them into an array? This is definitely the future, sending the building blocks of a huge system separately then connecting them only at the final destination. It should’ve been done this way already
This is so interesting, both when it comes to the conversation as well as the project. I think SpaceX should fund this to compensate for how they block the sky for the astronomers with Starlink. :)
Just ensure they fly with the hardware they’d need to operate as an interferometer. We’ll figure out how to make it work later. Additionally, I recommend multi-spectrum RF telescopes. To be used as an interferometer. Just in case. Make the data stream publicly available and you won’t have a funding problem any more.
Good to hear a different perspective on the subject..... my thought is that since we have a scope design.... and working, how would sending another webb up there and co-phase them.... that would equal to 16 or twice what's up there now....
Has anyone considered building an extremely large mirror out of micromirrors? Same tech as in projectors. Made as thousands of chips. The nice part is the fine positioning is built in. So the large scale assembly is simple
Sort of. Some engineers have built a flat lens made up of a series of chips. Their prototype is pretty small, but there's no reason it couldn't scale up to gigantic telescopes over time. www.universetoday.com/160510/researchers-build-a-telescope-with-a-flat-lens/
one micrometeor they are done ! it would be so much simpler to just put the camera on a foldable tripod at the focal point like the james webb's second mirror
What about warping of the materials due to heat from sunlight exposure? Or expansion of the gas used to inflate the telescopes? Would not that disturb the accuracy of the reflectors?
Fraser. The 'Big Bang'. And the 'Edge' of the Universe. And there is no 'centre' (because it happened everywhere at the same time). So how can there be an edge if there is no centre? And if the edge is receeding ever quicker (exceeding light-speed) why can't we measure this effect locally? (or can we?) And if we see the edge receeding at light-speed, if we look in the opposite direction (180 deg) are those two bits receding from each other at 2x light-speed?
Maybe radio interferometers work at single pixels, but infrared interferometers are just the size of the mirrors - like the VLT. But this wouldn't be an interferometer, it would just be more surface area.
How do they plan to manage orbital drift? the seperate mirrors will move relative to each other. Also they should take gravitational attraction into account, which is not much but will influence the formation. they will have to include thrusters for each lens
Looking at Dr. Daniel's headphones, the DT700 ProX. The project is off to a good start already! jk;) Best wishes for success to you and your colleagues, Dr.!
Luvoir also looks promising, tho probably won't be 15.1m, more likely if it gets the go ahead, to come in at 8m. The Carl Sagan proposal is exciting, but most sources say don't hold your breath even at 6m, it would run $11billion and at least 12 years to make
He keeps talking about funding. He talks about break-even. HE’S GOT THE SECRET SAUCE!! He makes these lenses. Someone please tell him: Make lenses. Make all you can. Sell them. All different sizes. Take special orders. If a telescope manufacturer wants 1,000 of them, what’s the lead time? Make lenses. Fly telescopes. Stop begging for public money. You don’t need it, or the restrictions that come with it. (BTW, when you do fly your lenses, would you mind adding the hardware for a multi-spectrum RF interferometer? And if you would, please make the signal data public? You’d be my hero!
Hey crazy question. What would happen if you got every amateur and professional telescope, in a hemisphere, and aimed them all at one point? Would you get a super image by using the same approach as combing many space telescopes? Except this telescopes is hemisphere sized. Could it work?
Just started listening... but why not simply put receivers on the back sides of every SpaceX StarLink and have an earth sized omnidirectional telescope? After that, have some start to trail the earths orbit and eventually have an earths orbit sized constellation?
This gave me hope , and it seems like the type of Projects Elon would jump on . So theoretically if we put 1k plus of these in orbit , we could have a >1km size telescope?? this is insanity....
I'd go easy with the hype around Starship capabilities. Which could end up just being used for Starlink missions, and an heavy modified Lunar version for Artemis. Adding a big payload fairing could enter more complexity as additional weigh due the reinforcements to the hull. Bet more into Falcon Heavy with an extended payload fairing.
"additional weigh to to reinforcements to he hull" A few typos here and there are easy to ignore, but there are enough of them here to obscure your meaning. You might want to go back and edit for clarity.
Just found this on my recommended list. And while that's great and everything, it does make me wonder why I never received a notification or why it doesn't show on my subscriber feed.... Very odd.
The 30m telescope is designed to be moved by truck, so less than 40,000 lb parts, intended for assembly on site. The total weight of the moving part is under 1500 tonnes. If you're going to assume Starship, that's 10 launches maximum. 10 Starship launches would cost less than the site works for the 30m telescope. Just launch that.
There aren't many science topics that are more important than this one. An optical telescope constellation is an exciting idea. Love the progress on lenses. Problem: energy for maneuvers and control. Problem: cooling. The graphic you showed of a deploying constellation doesn't inspire confidence that either energy or cooling have been addressed. Stupid thought: are you or your guest aware of AESA radar designs? I was wondering if there might be a way to develop compact radio telescopes of high sensitivity by harnessing AESA design principles. Launch costs won't ever be ignorable, but Starship should be able to lower costs significantly - including the cost of deploying instruments far from Earth, once refueling Starship in orbit becomes a reality. And it ought to be possible to use Starship itself as a telescope housing - though vibration dampening might be a challenge. The good part? Lots of mass capacity for maneuvers and endurance and for solar panels and radiators. Thanks for this interview, it was thoroughly enjoyable.
there is no limit to the size of telescope. the deployed telescopes could tie together once in space. and better, they can continue to adjust location in respect to all others depending on where your focal point needs to be and for what parts of the spectrum. throw up 20000 drones that are 2m across and stack them in rockets. then have them connect themselves once in space. if one is damaged, it disconnects and is replaced. it can retreat to repair and go back in.
