Oh man! I sweared Mic A was U87 in the blind test, it sounded better to me. Then you revealed them and U87 sounded better to me. My conclusion is: we are biased towards expensive microphones even though the slight differences don't justify to pay the triple, but if I could, I would buy U87.
Kudos for the truest comment on RU-vid. Our brains are powerful and high end gear desire will always lead our decision making. Uuuuunless we do the valued blind test and not give a 💩 what anyone else thinks. And after saying all that…I still want a U87 too 🤣
U 87 sounds a little fatter on voice which may not be the most desired thing always. Tlm 103 sounded a little thinner to me and I liked it finally personally. I think it because of the transformer less design. The transformer on the u87 gives fatness to the tone.
Put a real artist in front of the 2 microphones, and you will understand the difference in price. U87 is doing ART, others are just doing sound. It is applying for other high end microphones too.
I passed the blind test successfully, I already knew that U87 Ai is “warmer” from other comparison videos, it has some bump in the mids comparing to TLM 103. I’m not sure if I can tell which one I would prefer over another judging only the sound. I think it depends on the purpose. TLM 103 definitely wins the guitars test. I even disliked the sound of U87 Ai for guitars, not only liked TLM 103 more. TLM 103 has less “body” and more “crystallness”/“clearness” of the highs. I think I would prefer TLM 103 for spoken word (at least for your voice) and for singing U87 Ai. But for the spoken word I think I would prefer TLM 102 over TLM 103. And TLM 103 for singing over TLM 102. They all are pretty good and it’s not easy to tell which one you would like less or more.
For me the main difference is in the sibilants. The U87 is much smoother there. Doesn't mean that the 103 is harsh, but the overall SSSSSSes are much more pleasant for me, listening to the U87
This was exactly my experience of the two mics. We had a U87ai in the production studio of a radio station I once worked in years ago. I loved how I sounded on it. But when I bought a TLM103, I was less than impressed. The S sounds were too sizzly for me. I prefer those S sounds to be smooth and transparent. They were anything but with the TLM 103.
i disagree, during the blind test i heard mic B to sound a little more abrasive with a thicker push in the mids, more punch you could say. i found mic A to be quite a bit smoother and less "stop-and-go."
I'd be perfectly happy with the 103, but would use it in full expectation that - for many sources & purposes - a couple of db of lowpass cut around 5khz would be helpful, to tame that sizzle a bit.
I own a U87 and it is one of the best microphones that suits all audio materials, whether the voice is women or men, and it has great flexibility in polishing and smoothing the sound. Thank you brother for this nice comparison
The U87 Ai is just so much smoother in the high frequencies on the guitars! It sounded warmer on the vocals, but there really isn't much difference between the two, just a matter of preference at this point :)
Great comparison, Bandrew. I'd like to know your pick between the TLM 103 and the TLM 102 for voiceover purposes. I already have a TLM 102 and I'm pretty happy with it, but I have my doubts on whether I should upgrade it or not. Thank you!
you didn't as me but I'll give my opinion: the 103 is amazing on deep voices but can sound harsh on higher pitched men and most women whether trading up is worth it will depend on the talent's voice
The very slight forwardness in the low mids of the 87 is what makes it the perfect vocal mic for me. It is a signature of all the old Neumann mics and decidedly missing in the TLMs, which are probably more flat. It may even be a contribution of the transformer. It is a very broad boost of perhaps 1-2dB with a Q lower than many console EQs can even manage. I would not be unhappy to see a 102 or 103 when visiting in a studio if I was not traveling my 87s. They share much of the magic smoothness in the heart of the vocal range as well as the legendary overhead.
My TLM-103 is champagne colored and my U87 is black. Backwards of yours! I did guess them correctly. The 103 is brighter but not quite as smooth on the top end and it's easy to pick out between the two.
I liked the sound of the U87 AI better in the blind test. It's definitely cool to have access to them to do these tests, but they're both neat and I don't think anyone would feel bad about purchasing one versus the other.
Not at all. They’re very similar. A lot of mics are. It shows me that it doesn’t really matter what mic you have. Get a good enough one at the right price. Every signal is going to have some processing on it during its mixing life. $4000 mics and $200 mics. You will never say, oh in that 54 channel mix I can tell which mic you used for that vocal. My years of music have made me realise price comes down to a lot of things.
Dear Kevin, we come to an age where our ears are less - much less - to higher frequencies. I know what I am talking of ;) A hearing test brings clearity.
I think the tlm 103 is actually a good pick for All those homestudio cats i got a u87 ai and a tlm 103 my room is treated but not perfect what i recognize is that the tlm 103 sounds more forgiving to the room, sounds more upfront. U87 im a realy good room is a different Story.
Huuuuge difference when it comes to proximity effect performance, I guess PE is where ultra expensive mics shine. the U87 did an amazing job maintaining clarity!
Very interesting to see the tonal differences. It's not that small of a difference. What I hear is as follows: 1. The TLM103 has more bass boost but also more harmonic color down there. You can really hear it on the off axis test when listening to the rear of the mic. It picks up a LOT of low end from the rear of the mic. 2. The treble is more boosted on the TLM103, you can hear it almost like a lazer beam on Bandrew's voice. It doesn't sound bad, it's just more apparent. 3. The u87ai's off axis colouration sounds rfar superior. 4. The dynamic character of the u87ai makes it worth the price alone. It's incredibly smooth and easy to listen to. It's like listening to something sitting by a fireplace drinking hot cocoa lol
I was unable to tell which was which in the blind test, but it turns out that I liked the U87 Ai better. That made me smile when you revealed which was which, but I know it was only a coin toss. I'm a fan of your Versus Series, but that's only because you do such a great job with it. Thanks, BLT.
I listened several times. Cant tell a difference, for sure not an obvious difference.I've been recording for years and I;m thinking maybe I just cant hear well. All I could do was guess which was the 87.
Big thanks for this comparison. I have only recently realized how bright the 103 actually is. U87 was much preferred during the talking segments - but, funny enough, 103 did sound more... normal on the electric guitar, more like the sound you'd expect.
Great Review Bandrew, as always. Both Extremely clean Mics. Every time I hear the U87, I see Lennon. The U87 is a little warmer, and can feel the depth more than the TLM 103. I agree as I thought the TLM 103 sounded better on the electric guitar, however the acoustic sounded better with the U87, to my ears. Vocals over the Electric guitar tracks go to the U87 as well.
The TLM isn't a bad mic by any chance, but here, it sounds a bit thin in the low end, and the high end is a bit brittle in comparison. You're better off buying the OC-818 for a similar budget if you want a smoother, more neutral response.
I judged them right, but they are very close. The TLM 103 is a little crisper to me. I bought a TLM 102 a bit back for my personal studio and think I should have just bought the 103, but the 102 is a great mic too. I don't see ever buying a U87. It just doesn't seem worth the cost to me. There are others mics for far less that seem great for my vocals.
2 года назад
For about one third of the price, I know which one I'd choose.
Thanks so much for your Vidz Brandrew! Before I buy any mic, I watch your reviews first. Could you please, please do a review or comparison for the new UT Twin87 vs U87ai. Thanks!
Hey Bandrew, I really like your "versus series"! But you know this already. I appreciate, that you made clear that both of these microphones are great. But there is one point, where I have a different opinion. For acoustic guitar I like the U87 much more than the 103. The sound of the acoustic guitar opened up, was very clear and natural to my ears. I'd always prefer the U87 for this purpose.
This comment says it all. For me, you just hear more of the sound with the u87ai. But also having a 103 would be an amazing stepping stone at 1/3 the cost.
I hate being boring, but my vintage 87s, and for that matter any 87, is just a perfect vocal microphone. Note the very even polar response. This gives a more consistent behavior in different setups. I’ve compared to many mics, my U47fet, my 1951 U47 tube which is in need of capsule cleaning so that’s not so fair. It’s not necessarily better, but just absolutely predictable. That helps me to work with new vocalists with fewer surprises.
I may provide an unpopular opinion here ))) In the blind test, I clearly preferred A (TLM103), and - for the record - I am not the one who is usually inclined towards the brighter stuff. I just cannot help hearing way more overall transparency from the 103. The "smoother high end" of the U87 people are talking about does not sound any *qualitatively* better to me, just tamed, and this can be replicated in post with one hand movement )) But something tells me I won't be able to get the TLM103's transparency that easy while working on U87 files... just my weird opinion.
I’d prefer the 103 for electric guitar, and the 87 on the acoustic guitar. For sung voice, I’d prefer the 103, for narration maybe the 87. but, as you pointed out, it a matter of taste. Both are great microphones!
I noticed that you test the off-axis coloration horizontally. but you dont test how the u87ai would sound if you spoke into the top of mic as if it were an end address mic. Some people like to speak into the top of the u87ai.
the thing that is most interesting to me is that...I'm a pro...in a studio..on pro gear...and while I can hear some subtle differences in the blind A/B...what is messing with my mind is that when you show yourself speaking into each one the difference is waaaaaaaaaaay more obvious. Somehow...my brain is hearing it differently with a visual aspect. I've checked it multiple times and every time during the A/B they sound more similar than in the video reveal. Maybe some slight mic position difference? It's wild.
Curious savethefails, Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
On music tests I noticed that I liked 103 more. Voice tests they were close enough I had no pick. 103 is crispier but not too bright liek the cheap crap mics.
seems like if the use it vocals. TLM103 is fine and perfect, especially if you just have it mounted by your desk where you make stuff and could benefit from the off axis rejection. If you have a room to record actual room tone/noise along with the performance and want to use omni mode, OR a fully treated vocal booth, THEN the u87 ai makes sense. But the difference is so negligible for small/home studio use that I think if you can't make the TLM103 sound good maybe you don't yet deserve the u87 ai haha.
No disrespect but at 2m:40s you said "TLM 102" and the text layer had TLM 103 written in big letters on the screen... No worries...I'm AADD and a typesetter when you actually cut and pasted with hot wax individual words on plastic film straps of heat scored text letter images on an ITEC Text Generator by eye before thy had 15K laser printers that generated pages of "WYSIWUG" WHAT U C IS....what you get, so... HIRE A PROOF-READER or an x-english person like myself to guarantee your project files are flawless(or pay for a director and get union rates on blaming him for technical issues). Blame-game businesses make millions, why not you? Who's your agent? See...blame him! $ should mean accountability, rih? Continued Blessings....on your show.
Ummmm. I'm just confused by this comment. It's probably just a goof, but on the internet you can never tell. I'm not perfect, I make mistakes, and sometimes I just don't feel like setting everything back up and re-recording and re-editing.
Yippie!! I guessed right. Oddly, I felt I heard the smallest amount of distortion in the U87 in voice. The U87 sound quite different than the TLM103 both guitars, perhaps less in voice. I liked the TLM103 better on voice, but the U87 on the guitar, though I don't know what the guitar is supposed to sound like. Won't make my voice sound better : (
Both sound great, and I agree that the U87 wins, but it’s maybe harder to justify the price difference. I will say I felt like the U87 sounded better on your electric guitar test (I guess I’m a sucker for the more mid-forward sound you mentioned!), and I think adjusting the U87’s position slightly for the acoustic test could have made that the clear winner. As always, thanks for making it easier for the rest of us to make informed purchases!
I'm curious where the Warm Audio WA-87 R2 stands in the Neumann U87 Ai/TLM103, and Rode NT-1 style mic. Is it a decent budget U87? Does it crush the NT-1 given their pricing? Love your videos, they have taught me so much.
Thank You for the amazing comparison Bandrew. Love both but I like the TLM Neumann Series better. Love the smooth approach and articulation of the U87Ai on the accoustic guitar though. ' Me talking about articulation lol. Learned so much from Bandrew.
In a vocal booth 4x4x7 with treatment between walls and inside booth the 103 is very brittle vs a U87 where talking at a normal level one can be at 2 inches and no sizzle or proximity effect. Both with a 75hz hp filter at the apollo twin duo using an M1 John Hardy Preamp. Would like to hear a comparison between the u87 and TG Chandler on Cardioid for VO. Can send you the TG if you wish. Super video and guitar skills.
Guessed em right, and yeah - noticable difference in the mids - U87 sounds rounder, richer, more 3d, where the 103 sounds 'flatter' in comparison. Also the high sibilant areas are naturally smoothed out on the U87 in comparison. On a side note - The TLM 102 is HORRIBLE for sibilance / mouth noise and also ambience. The ambience part makes me question it's "home studio mic" marketing. The u87 works way better as a home stu mic 😂
The U87 sounds better, I even recognised it in he blind test. It has more body. I own the 103, that might have helped. But we’re talking about a mic three times as expensive as the other one. Couldn’t justify to buy the U87, maybe if I would own a studio. I prefer the TLM to all budget condensers I know. Somehow I even like the pre-shaped EQ. Sounds record or broadcast ready without much work to do.
Both are fantastic microphones. The blind test was easy since I own both mics. I think it boils down to the transformer giving the U87 a softer, richer, more balanced sound and the transformer less circuit of the TLM 103 giving a more direct, clean and uncolored (electronically; the capsule is where it's 'color' comes from) sound. From my experience with both, the U87 takes EQ a bit better since it's already very smooth, balanced and easy on the ears due to the transformer design. It's similar to why a Neve 1073 preamp is so beloved, there's something magical about passing audio through a perfectly matched transformer. Tubes can also have a similar pleasing effect, depending on the source. Just my humble opinion.
Awesome video as always Bandrew! Quick Note: the link in the description for the "HQ Audio Of Video" is currently innacurate. The current web address has no capital letters: "tlm103vsu87ai" vs "TLM103vsU87ai" (current address link) Cont: I did not guess the mirophones correctly :,< I would have expected the U87 to have more mid presence, but I was completely backwards. The TLM 103 is so strong on baritone and bass voices, I wouldn't have guessed it had such forward mids! I preferred the U87's smoother approach to the mids; it feels very clean and clear and smooth! However, the 103 doesn't seem harsh. Both microphones have that Neumann "sheen" on the high frequencies that maintains clarity without being sibilant or harsh.
We own a TLM103 and a U87 in our studio for many years. Many people forgot about the Art of recording and the Art of Microphone Knowledge. Biggest mistake we always see is that people compare DIFFERENT Microphones in the exact SAME position. EVERY Microphone got a DIFFERENT sweet spot, it might not be a big difference, but before you test two or more microphones against eachother, you have to find out in which position and with which preamp (not every chain works with every mic the same way!) each microphone sounds THE BEST. Only that way you can get a fair comparison. The K103 is actually the front side of the K87 and the capsule is responsible for 70-90% of the sound. Since the capsules are close to be similar the sound shouldn't be too far away. And surprise, it isn't. If you bring the TLM103 in its sweet spot its NEVER harsh or anything like this. People hating on the TLM103 and loving the sound of the U87 know nothing about the true Art of Recording. Also its very important to mention that the output transformer of the U87Ai is extremely transparent and neutral. So no matter with which microphone your going, you will get GREAT results as long as you got a great Talent infront of the microphone and a engineer who knows what he's doing.
Thank you ALL ELITE MUSIC. Thats the best comment Ive seen. And makes the most sense. I have a 103 and feel like I dont need an 87 mic. But Ive spent time with the 103 and know its habits well. When I sing on an 87 I feel I need to Eq it, with the 103 it feels ready before EQ. Thats just on my VX though, Another might not be the same. I dont own an 87 but have had them in my studio and sang on them in Nashville studios and I really love the 103 and dont feel Im coming up short at all. Both are great.
Hermoso todo lo que aquí se comenta todo es super genial .Quisiera preguntar cual seria ese punto óptimo para el tlm103 que se menciona , saludos un gran abrazo a todos .
I wonder how different they would sound with a some high-frequency EQ to either broaden the presence boost on the U87Ai or tighten it up on the TLM103. The difference in frequency response was fairly obvious to me (and I correctly guessed which was which because I already knew the TLM103 to be brighter), but I'm not sure how much I'm really hearing beyond that. In theory the U87's trasformer-based design should have some impact on transient response and warmth/distortion, but I'm not sure I could pick that out. I'm pretty happy with my OC818's though. As you say, by the time you get up to any of these you're already winning sonically.
7:05 the acoustic guitar sounds breathtakingly amazing on the U87, as well as vocals. Singular electric guitar sounded okay, but after you layer the electric guitar patterns, it gets a bit blown out and muddled. The TLM 103 definitely handled the electric guitar just a bit better, especially when you layered the patterns up and it sounded much better than the U87 But for most cases, the U87 sounds just a tad better. The TLM definitely has its uses though and would probably be the way to go for most people, including myself lol. The U87 is better, but since it's $2500 canadian, id rather pick the TLM lol.
The TLM 103’s capsule being “inspired” by U87’s capsule used to confuse me back in the day, but as far as I understand it, the k103 capsule is literally just the front half of the U87 capsule (it being dual diaphragmed, if thats even a word). Also, the U87 also has an output transformer, and it audibly affects how the microphone reproduces lower frequencies. You can kinda hear how “tight” and “compressed” the U87 sounds in that regard, whereas transformerless microphones have more “realistic” lows, if that makes sense. Also, if memory serves, the U87 has built in eq to tame the high frequencies, and without that, it would have highs more similar to 103. So, for all intents and purposes the 103 is “just” a single diaphragm, transformerless U87, without the corrective EQ. Thats why it used to be marketed as the budget U87, or “the sound of U87 for only third of the price.”
2:11 mic A has SLIGHTLY more latency and B sounds just a bit more neutral and balanced. But both sound absolutely phenomenal, if I wasnt wearing headphones for this, they would sound identical IMHO.
Great fun. But, Geeze, old man, spend a penny and heat your studio. You look so cold in your hoodie and watch cap! I hope you are not hiding a receding hair line. 🙂 Both microphones are beyond the point of diminishing returns and a complete waste of money for anyone other than a high level professional studio. I do not want either of them - and would, instead, acquire a SHURE SM27 or SENNHEISER MK4 or SHURE Beta 87A - each of them will sound plenty good for much less money, allowing me to stock higher grade bourbon in the studio. Just MY take - thanks for yours. TT
I attempted to align the capsules of the two mics so they were level so that I could switch between them and the most of the difference would be the change in the mic and not change in position to my mouth.
I'd go with the 103. For the music part, especially when everything was mixed together, the 103 sounded more exciting. The 87 sounds....well....old. I've become less and less of a fan of the 87 as time goes on. The 103 has better bass and a better, more solid top end. The 87Ai has this weird razor blade frequency in the top end that sounds separated from the rest of the sound. It becomes more apparent when you have to mix vocals recorded on an 87 and you need them to cut, meaning some boosting of the high end. Though I do prefer the original 87 regarding top end. Then factor in the price and the 87 is really not worth it at all.
Either one is great to just put up and go with minimum set up. You know if things don't sound as good as you want, it's because of you. NOT the mic. As was noted: Will it make ME sound good? Did you sound good before? Can I cut Hits with them? Did you cut Hits Before? Roll the tape.
Man, I gotta tell you, I'm not sure what's going on but on some of your videos, when you speak for a while I feel some kind of vacuum in my ears, like some frequencies bursting into my ears, maybe some mid-highs. (I usually use M50x to watch your videos). Just saying.
I was actually kinda surprised how different these two mics sound. I wasn't expecting the 103 to sound so bright in comparison. Also kind of surprised it took you so long to make this video. Lol
I guessed correctly; u87 has more bottom and top seems rolled off more so a fatter thicker sound from U87. U87 better for fat voice overs. Other mic may be better for singing in a song. But eq could match them.
First, the TLM 103 has the same diaphragm as the U87. It's just housed in a different capsule. In my experience using both side by side, they sound like exactly what they are. The same Neumann center terminated diaphragm, one going through older transformer based electronics and the other going through more modern transformerless circuitry. The U87 sounds a tiny bit more intimate and a bit fatter but also a little less hifi and dirty compared to the TLM. There is also the famous U87 honk. The TLM 103 sounds a bit cleaner and more dimensional (3D?) but less intimate compared to the 87. The basic character is the same. The differences are marginal. But in this comparison, I was surprised how much smoother the U87 sounded. To my ear, that smoothness also seemed a bit "retro." This comparison makes me want to reverse something I've done occasionally. From this it seems it would be better to use the U87 for smoother backing tracks and the TLM 103 to make a vocal pop. I had thought the intimacy of the U87 would make a vocal pop more. But this example makes me think differently.
Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
@@BRADRANCH Sorry for such a late reply! I often can't hear a difference between double tracked instrument when one is the 87 and the other the 103. I once read a world famous recording engineer saying that nobody who listens to a finished song ever hears the difference between 20,000 dollar vintage mics and newer transistor mics. So by the time a project has been mixed and mastered, nobody would ever be able to hear the difference between these two!
Thanks for doing this one. Good to hear them together. In my humble opinion, the heavier LF of the 103 works much better for you on voice. The boosted mids of the 87 is less flattering for you I think. Possibly a little ‘nasal’?
Do you think the 103 is close enough in a professional studio? When everything is mixed and mastered would we hear a difference running through hardware that would also bring some nice harmonic distortion? Like a BAE 1073, Pultek EQ and 1176 Bluey going in to your DAW? I think that narrows the gap even more. Curious what you think. :)
