Never enough SATA ports. (AKA the problem with ITX NAS cases)

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Disclosure: Some of the links below are affiliate links. This means that, at zero cost to you, I will earn an affiliate commission if you click through the link and finalize a purchase.
Stuff used in this video:
NAS boards:
CWWK Q670 8x SATA ITX: amzn.to/3Vyt3Oa s.click.aliexp...
Intel 13500T (you get way fewer cores if you go with the 12500!): ebay.us/Sbk3Dv
Intel 14500 (more power, higher clocks): amzn.to/3Vx5zZH
J6412/13 6x SATA ITX: www.aliexpress...
N5095 12x SATA ITX (there are N5105 models around, too): s.click.aliexp...
Ryzen 9x SATA ITX (went way up in price!): s.click.aliexp...
Dynatron 1U LGA1700 cooler if anyone is in the market for one: amzn.to/4e83kUd
NAS cases:
Sagittarius (8-bay, mATX. review • A great 8-bay mATX NAS... ): s.click.aliexp...
JONSBO N2 (5-bay, ITX): amzn.to/40w0xNZ newegg.io/nc52...
JONSBO N3 (8-bay, ITX): newegg.io/nc8f...
Current Filming Equipment:
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RGB Video Light: amzn.to/3eqVGGs (not my exact light, but similar)
Desview R6 monitor: amzn.to/34CfKUI
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Опубликовано:

25 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 176

@christophersmith108 3 месяца назад

I admit, I did skip to the end, but was so impressed, I went back and rewatched the whole video, then subscribed. Great information, it would have saved me a lot of heartache a year ago, hopefully it will save me a lot in the future!

@anastasy2 3 месяца назад

Very nice video ! I did buy this exact same Q670 motherboard even before watching your video.... 3 NVME, 8 sata, IPMI, real socket for modern Intel CPU : Too good to pass up. CWWK is starting to build really great motherboards for NAS. The only thing that could be even better would be ECC support with a W680 chipset.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

A version with W680 would probably be $250 more going by other W680 stuff. Thanks, Intel. :P

@olokelo 3 месяца назад

What's the power consumption of the board + Intel 12/13th gen CPU? I heard they can be quite power hungry.

@asdamrokik8911 3 месяца назад

@@olokeloyeah, this aspect that I want to know the most

@EmperorTerran 3 месяца назад

careful, wolfgangs channel has video labeled "Don't Make This Mistake Building a Home Server!" about getting asus mobo in hope of getting it all, and it turns out that with ipmi the igpu of intel cpu cant be used for transcoding.

@asknight 2 месяца назад

@@EmperorTerran go one step further and add a discrete GPU and do both transcode and inference. Oh, and @PeterBrockie this review earned my subscription. Keep up the good work, sir.

@BrunodeSouzaLino 3 месяца назад

An alternative to those which is a bit of a bodge are the Erying motherboards with Intel laptop CPUs. These CPUs have a big higher consumption, but you have 24/28 lanes, three NVMe slots and so on. NAS Compares did a build video using one of these some time ago.

@edwardhsieh4644 Месяц назад

Additionally, Pcie on an mitx uses the cpu lane, which will prevent low c states.

@argonthepanda8720 Месяц назад

The boards you showed off are perfect and exactly what I was looking for. Right now I am running a 13 year old QNAP rack mount NAS for storage and a separate Haskell based opto plex for Jellyfin with an Intel Arc a310 for transcoding. This board seems like one that I can just combine those two into a single box

@EvertZwevert 3 месяца назад

Did not skip, very interesting as i was looking for a similar solution. Enjoyed the video, Thanks ! Will continue my Lenovo m720q route with a pcie sata card 1st.

@Henry2b2t 2 месяца назад

How are you planning to power the drives / what are you using for an enclosure? I have a m920q and am exploring diy "nas" options

@EvertZwevert 2 месяца назад

Hi henry, I have 4 3.5" drives and will power them seperately with a 200w pico psu (inter-Tech 88882190) in combination with a 150w 12v power supply. I reckon that should be plenty of power. I am about to build the system this week and can then determine the exact power draw. For the enclosure i use a 3d printed 4 bay itx nas found on printables. I designed a bracket for the mini pc and it fits well. Later i will remix the back panel to fit my needs.

@ShivanandChanderbally Месяц назад

@@EvertZwevertwhat case did you go with? I am also interested in the challenges you had with power!

@EvertZwevert Месяц назад

@@ShivanandChanderballyi'm using this one on printables: Network Storage - 4 Bay / 3.5" / ITX NAS

@alexvdl1 Месяц назад

Damn.. I have already committed to the CWWK/Topton 7940HS 9 SATA port board for my home server, but that last board is definitely impressive, and outperforms it in a lot of areas.

@MsNIKITA 3 месяца назад

Myself, I'm still using rocking the ASrock C2750D41 for my home NAS. This board supports 12 SATA drives outta the box. I have yet to use the PCIe slot for any HBA interface.

@Servicehans 2 месяца назад

spot on. I wish there were more options for matx nas cases other than from aliexpress. matx boards also tend to be a good bit cheaper than an equal itx board.

@huboz0r 3 месяца назад

You also need the v-type Ethernet controller if you need vlan settings in windows. The non v doesn’t support it

@davidl6566 3 месяца назад

Since I've yet to see it mentioned recently: supermicro m11sdv Up to amd epyc 3251 cpu (8c16t) 1 4x m.2 slot 1 16x slot that can be bifurcated 4x1gig (thats the con- The cpu has 10g capabilities) 12v/atx psu uptions UP TO 512GB of ddr4 ecc ram 4x sata slots

@onesterkin 3 месяца назад

Wow, great find. Exactly what im looking for! Any idea how much power it will get off the wall in idle?

@iamrage4753 3 месяца назад

can you maybe look into m-atx nas type mainboards pls? ty

@scottbrooke4896 3 месяца назад

Thank you for making this video! I'm running the CWWK N100 NAS MoBo and all the limitations you mentioned are felt. And, I wish they would quit stuffing 4xNICs into a NAS MoBo. Subscribed, in case you buy more and talk about them! :)

@graysonpeddie Месяц назад

The only reason why I would go with 4 NIC ports is if I want a router+NAS all in one. (sigh) Man this is crazy...

@tendosingh5682 3 месяца назад

Most people purchasing low end combo "nas" boards don't realize the issue with lanes being very limited.

@PierreVilleneuve88 26 дней назад

I watched the whole thing and understood everything except: why is it recommended to use xx500 CPU and up and not 14100 for instance? What am I missing? thanks

@PeterBrockie 26 дней назад

You need a xx500 (or higher) CPU to use the remote control vPro features. If you don't care about 'em, use anything. Also, the 13500T is specifically mentioned by the board maker as the idea CPU (supports vPro, low TDP, decent core count).

@jeffnew1213 3 месяца назад

I used an ASRock H370M-ITXac motherboard (6 x SATA ports) in a Jonsbo N2 case with a Core i3-8100 CPU (eBay $40). That motherboard supports 8th or 9th generation Intel CPUs. In the one PCIe slot, I put in a 10G Ethernet card.

@TheDesertsweeper 2 месяца назад

The board you talk about looks great but seems to be something of a unicorn. Found one used on ebay but not available through usual retailers or online

@PeterBrockie 2 месяца назад

@TheDesertsweeper It's on both Amazon (US) and Aliexpress. I'm pretty sure Ali ships to most places. CWWK also sells direct on their site, I think.

@TheDesertsweeper 2 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie I was responding to the Asrock this person talks about, not your board. Yes yours is everywhere!

@zack.123. Месяц назад

Great video. Subbed. Only thing missing is SAS NAS support.

@aleJohnny 3 месяца назад

Thanks. You video is very informative and fits perfectly with what I was struggling to find. I think I’ll follow your recommendation about the processor too. I wish at least that this board had at least 3 or 4 NICs, but I think I can survive. Thank you again!

@arminbreuer7968 3 месяца назад

I use M.2 SATA controllers in this case, which comes with another problem - where is the M2 port, and can I route a bulky SFF cable there.

@GermanMythbuster День назад

The Problem is that IO is very power hungry. The more lanes a CPU has the higher the idle Power Consumption. My Server uses about 15-18w idle (at the wall, drives spun down) (ryzen 3600, 1x m.2, no gpu, 2 RAM Sticks (RAM needs ~2.5w per stick), 4x8tb drive) but even with optimizing if you need the PCI lanes you basically can't get any lower, maybe you can achieve 10-13w at the wall, but if you need a 400$ PSU to do it, meeh...

@xpatrikpvp 3 месяца назад

Great video, SUBSCRIBED! Great information and explanation! (Those boards are pretty interesting but i have no reason to upgrade from my z590/i5-11600k unraid)

@henlofren7321 2 месяца назад

I never felt limited by the generic ITX boards I come across. A single m2 slot gets you all the SATA you'd need for an ITX NAS case, thunderbolt gets you 10GbE, onboard wifi gets you wifi 7 or 2 extra SATA ports, and you still have a second m2 and 16x slot left. This board is only good for a NAS and little else because of the CPU limitations, I'd rather have 16+ cores for everything else I'm hosting on that machine.

@eg1do 3 месяца назад

Great Video, I've been looking for a NAS MoBo for a while. Thanks!

@tedoyle61 3 месяца назад

Loved the video. Yes, I've tried to flash the wrong bios to a board, but the installer caught it. The only thing I have to accept soldered in cpus is in laptops, and i don't' like them there either... And, the sound jacks ... I don't get that either... Great Video. Love the fact you explained why. Thanks!!!

@3.0dmax 3 месяца назад

For months I was trying to decide what to upgrade my home TrueNAS SCALE box with. I have lots of experience over 20+ years with Supermicro, so I stuck to what I know. Ended up going with an X12STL-IF with a Xeon E-2336 and 64GB of ECC UDIMMs. The Xeon is way overkill, but it will take lower end CPUs and standard DDR4 3200 DIMMs. The 4.0 x16 slot will do 8x/8x via bifurcation jumper. Might do a GPU for transcoding or a dual SFP+ card later. Mini SAS HD w/sideband. Two DOM power ready SATA3 ports which I use for mirrored boot disks. 3.0 x4 M.2 slot for $takeYourPick. All around I'm satisfied with it. Yes it does idle around 28W for me, but I wanted the horsepower if I need it and the cost wasn't that much more for the Xeon E + ECC DIMMs.

@EmperorTerran 3 месяца назад

jesus christ, such a nice mobo and available... but if it just had 8 sata instead of 6. Since it has single m.2 you would need pcie to expand sata and that would mean no 10gbit

@davinchewk 3 месяца назад

Nice. I have a h670 I ordered maybe a week ago. Waiting for my 12600T to arrive.

@EmperorTerran 3 месяца назад

I kinda hoped ECC. Cuz all i see as something extra are sata ports which while nice is kinda solved by by ASM1166 based m.2 to sata adapter which is reported to support lower power stages and any mobo that has two m.2. Gotta check that ryzen board for ECC. Oh yeah, ipmi sounds good, would be nice to see in the video what that intel version ipmi looks like.

@theusuario-pb5xk 2 месяца назад

The CWWK Q670 board it's having a memory problem The board shares its recources (lanes?) between its PCIEx5x16 slot and its first memory bank. When PCIEx slot is occupied with an PCIEx x16 adapter (i.e. Mellanox ConnectX-4 single QSFP28 port) then memory in first bank is ignored and it only recognizes 48GB.

@PeterBrockie 2 месяца назад

I'm sorry I can't reproduce this error. Although I don't have 48GB DIMMs, just dual 16s. I have the same Connectx-4 card and all my memory shows no problem. The only memory related issue I had was when installing a generic Realtek 2.5g card which would cause the system not to boot with a memory error (3 beeps), but I saw other reviews for that cards on totally different systems that had the exact same issue. PCIe slots and memory don't share lanes - memory is its own controller directly connected to the DIMMs.

@deanmibo 3 месяца назад

Hi there, great video.... One question... Did you try any transcoding via plex or jellyfin with that cpu?

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

Basically any 12-14th gen CPU should have no problem transcoding anything with QuickSync. As for the older embedded boards, I doubt they will handle a 4k transcode well, but 1080p stuff should be fine.

@aaronschilling1815 3 месяца назад

Dude that is a perfect board

@TheRickJames 3 месяца назад

I feel the cheaper ones you showed are perfect for what they can handle. You would've have the raw processing power to saturate a 10g connection anyway. And the internal usb header is meant to house the OS such as truenas. While the audio header is included because these are used as NVRs alot. I wouldn't even run more than 5 sata drives on something underpowered like that. An HBA would be a waste even if it had the lanes for it.

@zeroturn7091 3 месяца назад

I took the Chineseium route. Originally, I started out using a loader that will not be named and it served its purpose as a file server. Now I’m getting into encoding my ISOs and home lab applications so I need the horsepower.

@richardahlquist5839 3 месяца назад

I'm mid build. Asrock X570D4I-2T Supports DDR4 260-pin ECC*/non-ECC SO-DIMM up to 32GB/dimm. single PCIe3.0 x16 slot. 1 m.2 2280 PCIe4x4, 2 OCuLink (PCIe4.0* x4 or 4 SATA 6Gb/s), 2 RJ45 (10GbE) by Intel® X550-AT2, remote managment port. I think this is pretty much the ultimate one IMHO. Drop an AM4 Pro cpu, 64gb ram in this, m.2 boot/os drive, and 8 SATA drive hanging off the occulink and have to 2 10GB Ethernet ports built in. The only irritation so far is the Intel Cooler based AM4 setup..

@youfoundisaac 3 месяца назад

love this board, just wish it had sas instead of oculink

@strkilla89 3 месяца назад

The Jonsbo N5 has gone up to 12 and atx board support which is interesting but definitely not compact.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I saw that. I'll try to order one for review once Jonsbo has it for sale.

@christophersmith108 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie I was all ready to order one of these as soon as I read about it. Now, I'll wait for your review. I could see one of these taking over most of the duties of my homelab

@Cybercowboy419 11 дней назад

Does it support ecc memory?

@bramo0561 3 дня назад

Nice video exactly what I needed

@hoki2889 3 месяца назад

Could you please let us know which Wake-on-LAN modes are supported by the NICs? Thanks so much!

@ArchaicHero-lc7gd 3 месяца назад

Very usefull information. Thank you for that. I do have a question. Did you test bifurcation switch to x8x8 and if you did, did that work? Also, how does BIOS looks like, and does it have many customized settings? is BIOS generic looking or actually looks like one of the main brands?

@keithmiller9665 3 месяца назад

Some of us want audio jacks 😮! Lack of QuickSync video hardware encoding is a far bigger concern. N100 CPU is a must.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

The N5105 and J6413 both have QuickSync. Albeit older encoders. That being said, most of these boards are available with an N100. Nothibg wrong with needing audio, but for NAS boards I'd rather see something else used for the board space audio takes up. You can always grab a cheap usb audio dongle with the same bottom end Realtek audio chip they're sticking on these boards.

@casperghst42 3 месяца назад

Depends, but SM have some Mini-ITX boards which has 8 ports and IPMI.

@JimboLodisC 2 месяца назад

I started this video worried that I may have to return the parts I just bought on impulse, turns out I did good buying a 13500T ($169) and a Q670!

@HaimPeretz 3 месяца назад

Nice board! The issue is lack of ECC RAM support

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

No consumer boards support it aside from AMD (and even then it can be sketchy depending on the motherboard). Personally I have changed my opinion on it over the years and don't consider it a big deal for home use anymore.

@HaimPeretz 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie yes.. I saw some boards with Xeon from Ali but I'm not sure how much they really support ECC

@HaimPeretz 3 месяца назад

Search for: X99 Motherboard Combo LGA2011 C612

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

@@HaimPeretz The W680 chipset or whatever it is called supports ECC on consumer 12th+ Gen chips, but they are rare and overpriced.

@HaimPeretz 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie Please search for the: X99 Motherboard Combo LGA2011 C612 in Ali

@dbmaster46446 21 день назад

connect the thundebolt directly to a pc to get 20gb/s, something else i always wanted to try is an infiniband adapter connected with thunderbolt, but currently waiting for the m.2 -> PCIe adapter i also just bought an "Supermicro X10SLH-N6" for just 15€, it has 6x 10gbit on board, but its µATX, i gues it also pretty nice for a nas depending on your setup, if the motherboard area of your nas is build like a 1U server, i gues you were in luck with that board because you just need 1 pcie card anyway

@roblatour3511 Месяц назад

excellent video - I wish there were more like it - subscriber count now +1

@thelesls Месяц назад

CWWK has a AMD 8845HS embedded version of this. Alth, they are sold out most of the time...

@CharizardSnyper 3 месяца назад

What intel board would you recommend with a 16x pcie slot w/bifurcation (4x4x4x4) and 2 8x pcie slots?

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I think you're going to be stuck going to HEDT (like an older X299 board) or a server/workstation chipset. Intel and AMD don't usually have that level of bifurcation support on consumer stuff.

@sebagust 3 месяца назад

Is the H670 also limited to having 1x500? Or will a 12400 work with the H670?

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

Any CPU will work in either. You just need a 1x500 or higher if you want to use vPro on the Q670.

@danielzebrowski5038 3 месяца назад

why can't you replace the wifi card with a SATA adapter or plug the SATA adapter into the m.2 slot? of course you can, to get to the wifi slot you need to unscrew the radiator I have a server at home in Jonsbo N3, Asus Rog B550i and Ryzen 7 5700G with an m.2 to 5 SATA adapter, which gave me total of 9 SATA ports and instead of a Wifi card I installed an adapter for the second 2.5Gb LAN port I solved the problem with only one PCIe x16 port by bifurcation and used an adapter from x16 to x8x4x4, which gave me two m.2 nvme x4 slots and one PCIe x16 slot with x8 speed, to which I added a low-profile Intel ARC A380 GPU so in total, not counting the adapters, the jonsbo N3 has room for 12 drives, 8x3.5 inch, one 2.5 inch and three M.2 nvme

@nadtz 3 месяца назад

I'd love to see a modern denverton type setup that was relatively inexpensive, low power but also had a bunch of PCIE lanes so you could do 2x M.2, 10gb on board and 8-10 SATA ports that was also fairly easy for consumers to get their hands on. That CWWK board isn't bad but no 10gb means I'd have to add a nic so it wouldn't have enough sata ports for my use case sadly.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

You can always trade an M.2 slot for a 10 gig Nic if you're desperate.

@nadtz 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie I've pretty much settled on something that is higher power and larger but comes with everything I want. A case that's going to fit 10 drives isn't going to be small regardless so I kind of gave up on something lower than 45w tdp.

@Prophes0r 3 месяца назад

The problem with this idea is you would need PCIe switching. The embedded CPUs do have pretty fine grain bifurcation available at the motherboard manufacturer level, but that isn't always exposed to the users. But, they are only going to have 8 lanes to work with, and you get what the manufacturer things you are going to use with little to no configuration. The next step up laptop/desktop CPUs have way more lanes, but the configuration is pretty rigid. 20 lanes is great, but if the SoC only internally supports 16/4, 8/8/4, or 8/4/4/4 then there isn't anything a manufacturer can do. This is a problem I'm personally hitting. I have several of the cheap Tiger Lake ES M-ATX boards that I'd LOVE to reconfigure hardware on. The SoC is for laptops, and technically supports bifurcating the 16 link into 8/8 or 8/4/4 links, but the motherboard manufacturer made it as a "gaming" board, so there isn't a way to configure it. I think it would require a BIOS hack AND a hardware hack, because I think the PCIe link bring-up for these SoCs checks high/low status on certain pins. It makes sense, since you would never actually be changing a configuration like this on a laptop motherboard. It would have the lane assignments baked into the design. But boy would it be nice to give 8 lanes of PCIe 4.0 to a 100G card, have 3x NVMe drives, and then use the 4x 3.0 lanes off the chipset for a SATA/SAS controller...

@nadtz 3 месяца назад

@@Prophes0r That's why I specifically mentioned denverton. Something like that but more modern would have enough PCIE lanes for most low power NAS use cases (not counting a ton of NVME drives) with 16 lanes instead of the 8-9 we get now a days, especially with a modern igpu.

@tomdillan 3 месяца назад

I like my Asrock H370m-itx, six sata ports, dual gigabit nics, I3-8100 through I7-9700, Qsync hd 630 and an m.2 WiFi.

@jareddehart9107 3 месяца назад

Does the h670 support ECC by chance?

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

Only the W680 chipset supports ECC on LGA1700.

@dragonair89 Месяц назад

Hi @PeterBrockie, Thanks for creating the video, it was quite informative. I am currently in the middle of building a NAS and am considering the H670 + 13500T + SSD as the configuration. Can you create a setup video for this Motherboard, how to flash BIOS and configure this board. Thanks.

@psychoacer 3 месяца назад

I have the Asrock x570 ITX motherboard in my N2 and my solution is going to be a dual m.2 pcie expansion card. Luckily I don't need a GPU on this board even though I'm using a 3700x. Right now I'm having a problem getting bifurcation working and I'm taking my time to diagnose it since I have to take the entire pc apart since I need to plug in a gpu to get into bios.

@xgeko2 2 месяца назад

Dang if that thing had dual 10gb Ethernet and 4x4x4x4 bifurcation this thing would be perfect for what I need.

@kuro68000 3 месяца назад

A board like that but mATX, with another PCIe slot and the 2nd and 3rd NVMe slots on the top, would be fantastic.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I'd love one where they use the extra space for more m.2. Keep it one slot, but have like 6 NVMe slots for people who also want a fast storage pool with their drives.

@kuro68000 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie that's a nice idea. That board I linked to in my other comment has PCIe bifurcation so you can have two NVMe drives per slot.

@anastasy2 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie Not enough lanes for that sadly. 3 is already very nice. Usually on mITX boards you have 1 or 2 maximum.

@Cooper3312000 3 месяца назад

I'm still waiting for a manufacturer to make an all flash U.2 NVME NAS enclosure like the QNAP TS-h1290FX but more affordable. I have a bunch of 8TB U.2 HGST drive but no where to use the other than an old Dell server.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I don't think an affordable one will come anytime soon unless it's using older hardware. Simply because of a lack of PCIe lanes on anything other than high end server stuff. That being said, if you're willing to drop down to something like 1st gen EPYC, you can probably get a board and a bunch of adapters to break out all the PCIe slots into NVMe.

@romanrm1 3 месяца назад

There are 1 to 5 SATA port multipliers. Needs SATA controller support (most or all modern ones should do), and all 5 disks will obviously share 1xSATA600 worth of bandwidth. In many cases that's not an issue.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

The thing with port multipliers is that they are often unreliable and require older controller chips not found on newer motherboards. Many even require Windows specific drivers so they won't even work on something like TrueNAS.

@romanrm1 3 месяца назад

@PeterBrockie the PMP functionality is a part of the SATA standard, so there cannot be any Windows-only PMPs. In Windows you may just need to install drivers for the SATA controller from the vendor (AMD, Intel etc) as opposed to Microsoft ones coming with the OS. As for reliability, indeed, certain kinds of hiccups on one drive may affect others. And hot-plugging one port may result in re-negotiation on all ports, which could cause issues.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

It's an optional part of the spec as far as I know, so it can be a bit hit or miss. I've seen controllers which say they only support all their ports under Windows, maybe it's just a translation error. Haha

@aqua_cat_ 23 дня назад

These Intel Celeron chips only have 1 channel memory regardles of two dimms. They just run in serial, but bandwith is the same as with one dimm.

@PeterBrockie 23 дня назад

According to Intel's own site the N5095, etc. are dual channel.

@aqua_cat_ 22 дня назад

@@PeterBrockie Yeah, you're righ. Just checked it. I cofused N5095 for newer N95. My fault.

@mandatoryfun_ Месяц назад

is a mobo design possible just to expose all the pcie lanes? surely that's the holy grail. im rocking asrock z87 extreme 4, 32GB ram with i7 4770k or i3 4130, still playing around. 4 hdd and 2 ssds hitting 40 watts with truenas. got 3 PCIe 3.0 x16, 2 PCIe 2.0 x1, 2x sata slots spare. my view is old HW is king as NAS setups. but im still a complete newbie

@PeterBrockie Месяц назад

Yes and no. There are limits on how a CPU can split its lanes out. For example, you generally can't take all x20 lanes of a CPU and split them into 20 x1 slots. However, you can take a x16 slot and add a PCIe splitter to break it out, but they are only made by a few companies and are generally really expensive (especially PCIe 5.0). There are high end desktop boards out there with seemingly more PCIe slots than you should be able to get away with on the desktop and they will usually take the chipset PCIe lanes and run them through a PCIe splitter. So you're already limited to the max link between the CPU and chipset (usually x4 PCIe).

@awesomearizona-dino 3 месяца назад

Hi Peter, i am using the similar Asrock board, Z690M-ITXonly 2 m.2 slot tho. 12600k with a hyper 212 evo cooler, did cinebench R23 run, it only got into to mid 70s max temps. Now i need to add some drives. Not sure what OS i will run. Subscribed. Prob True NAS

@ZeroCool66667 3 месяца назад

it can use the i5-12500T?

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

Yep. Although if buying for the build and budget isn't a problem, I recommend getting the 13500t as it has way more cores.

@michaelcarson8375 3 месяца назад

The true problem is NO SAS ports.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I think the issue is just cost for SAS ports. Broadcom is basically the only one making anything SAS. I'm sure the cost to get their controllers for integration to a motherboard is absurd. There might be a creative way to reuse the super common 9xxx-8i controllers like putting a second horizontal 8x PCIe slot in addition to the normal 16x to slot to fit a second card on an ITX board. Plus SAS isn't super popular in home labbing. I suspect most used SAS drives from enterprise clients are destroyed after use rather than sold used.

@michaelcarson8375 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie SAS ports are cheap especially considering intel chipsets support SAS natively. The connectors are no longer expensive either with Nvme drives sharing the same ports as SAS drive breakout cables. The only drawback is the motherboard vendor has to enable SAS in the chipset via the bios, like thunderbolt.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

@@michaelcarson8375 Which chipsets support it other than their server/workstation ones? As far as I know no consumer chipsets support SAS.

@michaelcarson8375 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie There are some X99 boards and I could have sworn I saw an X299 board, but none of those are ITX. Do you count Intel atom ITX with SAS ports as server workstation? I don't and you can just search atom ITX SAS, but some of those have extra chips. There are MANY atom ~31 watt NAS style boxes that handle 4-8 drives that I would not consider as workstation class, they are IoT at best. Intel called those chips C3000 SOC. The C chipsets like C602 are identical to the desktop chipsets in every way but they have unbuffered ECC enabled, they even support celeron, i3, i5, etc desktop chips and unbuffered memory. I know of ATX boards with SAS from Intel chipsets, but none for ITX. The closest modern board I found used the Intel H770. Look up the Maxsun Terminator H770 YTX D5 Wi-Fi with Intel h770, it looks to only support sata.

@dohmarau 3 месяца назад

ECC is most important if running a nas. I'd rather have SATA drives on my home/home office NAS instead of SAS if I had to choose.

@Browningate 2 месяца назад

Thunderbolt accessories are still absurdly expensive. What a failure of a protocol.

@davidrodgers5534 3 месяца назад

asrock rack X570D4I-2T has 2 occulink that can be 8 sata, it has 10Gbe and 1x m.2 and 1x pcie

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I guess if you really, really want a "brand name" board, but you're looking at about twice the cost and ECC SO-DIMMs (if you want ECC), which aren't the most common things around. Also only one M.2 unless you want to start trading Oculink ports for NVMe. The 10gig is always welcomed on ITX though. :D

@davidrodgers5534 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie .these boards both also have IPMI out of band management interfaces

@gadgethound 2 месяца назад

Curious if anyone has actually gotten this board properly configured with 13500T and 5600 Mhz DDR5 RAM… the BIOS is probably the most convoluted I’ve ever configured, so i totally could be getting settings wrong. But right now my cpu is artificially being power throttled even though cpu temps are only 38 degrees C. Can’t figure out how to increase power limits. RAM is stuck at stock 4800 MT/s even though i have applied XMP for 5600. The CWWK web site has some support resources but it’s all in Chinese and poorly organized. Really impossible to find drivers… :/

@PeterBrockie 2 месяца назад

The BIOS just has nothing hidden so it has a billion confusing options. This is pretty common on boards like this. It's one of those things which is both good and bad. Lots of control, but you gotta google half the items in the BIOS. :D The board by default has some pretty strict power limits (I think they actually obey Intel ironically). For example my system will pull 90W during an all core load (13500T), but drop to 50W shortly after. It looks like there are options to enable keeping it at full turbo, but I didn't look into it since the VRM is pretty wimpy and I'm using it as low power VM system. The memory settings are bit weird at least with the sticks I have. The XMP profile doesn't seem to actually have the right speed. I just selected it anyway and picked the correct speed under "Maximum memory freq" or whatever it was called. Update: The memory speed control I found is located at: Chipset -> System Agent -> Memory Configuration -> "Maximum Memory Frequency" As for Turbo. On my CPU PL1 is 35W and PL2 (you can find these under Advanced -> Power & Performance -> CPU -> View Configure Turbo Options). Before you go into Turbo options, under CPU make sure the Boot Performance Mode is set to Turbo Performance - also check your OS to make sure it isn't running a power saving energy profile.

@gadgethound Месяц назад

@@PeterBrockie So a few things I've been able to figure out that greatly helped my sanity. 1. The 13500T CPU doesn't support RAM faster than 4800MT/s, so that explains why I couldn't set the XMP profile. 2. The CPU is limited to a 35W TDP, but was expecting that it would boost to higher TDPs as needed temporarily under load. Was expecting my CPU fan to ramp up, but that never happened. But confirmed the system was not being limited by measuring power draw from the wall. 3. Finally found a setting in the BIOS that allows the processor to run at expected clock speeds under multi-core workloads. It was literally hours of trial and error and testing, but good to know it's working now. Figuring this out was the saving grace between keeping and returning the board. I guess with great power comes great.... patience. I do think hardware-wise, it's a pretty versatile NAS board.

@WillFuI 3 месяца назад

I got an itx board with 3 m.2’s I think that’s your best bet if u want to use a beefier cpu

@papelaminemane2575 3 месяца назад

Thanks. Nice video.

@HORNOMINATOR 3 месяца назад

good overview

@danagoyette7932 3 месяца назад

Oof, that X570 ITX/TB3 has a very garbage chipset cooler and a terrible placement of the M.2 slot (on the backside). The BIOS is garbage too... how the heck did they get Intel to "certify" a board where Thunderbolt devices don't work at all during boot, and where hotplugging a Thunderbolt device fails to allocate any resources for the device?

@ChrisJackson-js8rd 3 месяца назад

yup. pretty much.

@AMatofFact 29 дней назад

Okay, that's a cool fricken board. Hope it lasts you. Only problem you have now is that TrueNAS doesn't support modern hardware lmao

@PeterBrockie 29 дней назад

Works on everything I have. Truenas Scale has better hardware support which will only get better over time as they stopped Core feature development.

@bsaurusrex 3 месяца назад

Supermicro A2SDi-H-TP4F

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

The last one of those which sold on eBay went for $1500. For a motherboard with a 7 year old CPU. :D It's not a bad board or anything, you're just paying a ton for something which has the same PCIe limitations as a lot of these boards. Only a single x4 PCIe 3.0 slot, single M.2 at x2 PCIe 3.0. The 10gig is nice though, I wish more boards had it these days.

@bsaurusrex 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie Wow, maybe I should sell mine. Theres also: A3SPI-8C-LN6PF or A3SPI-4C-LN6PF

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I sold off most of my Supermicro stuff simply because in general I could get a "better" consumer board with the money and have money left over. :D

@pdcmoreira 2 месяца назад

Too bad those boards are impossible to find in Europe.

@ShuhaibMohammedT443 2 месяца назад

AliExpress

@DanteTheWhite 3 месяца назад

Goods stuff, subbed

@stargeezer8427 3 месяца назад

Seems to me PCIe configurations have gone totally sideways ever since gen5.... Most mobo OEMs are SO worried about having it that we get crap slot support (even ATX are usually just two 16x "size" that drop to 8x speed the moment you populate both, plus maybe two 1x that aren't much use for most people anyway), and despite the fact that there is essentially nothing in the consumer market that can utilize it (no Gen5 GPU's, just M2 NVMe's that consumers will NEVER need/notice any improvement). I wish ALL mobo OEMs would just park the bulls**t gen5 hype, stop the STUPID "armor"/put all extra M2's on the back, and go back to using topside real estate for EXPANSION SLOTS like were not all morons.

@tendosingh5682 3 месяца назад

they could have boosted the power delivery and made a pro pro board.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I think they just hit space limitations for the VRM. I'm sure there is a way to make more room like stacking the M.2, dropping audio, etc. But they probably figured it was just a NAS. Haha

@emiliabunko4518 3 месяца назад

not enough sata ports? did you ever saw ASRock Rack C2750D4I or Supermicro MBD-A1SAi-2750F-O or ASRock Rack C236 WSI ??

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

There's nothing wrong with using older hardware in general. But I was mostly referring to not being able to find modern boards. The C2000 atom series is over a decade old at this point, yet the motherboards are still pretty expensive. Personally I'd rather have a modern motherboard and CPU for less money with more efficient CPUs, much faster PCIe, 2.5Gbe, etc. The C236 board is fine if you find one. They are cheaper than the CWWK route as it looks like you can get the motherboard used from time to time for around $150 + ~$40-50 for a CPU. But you're still running a 8 year old CPU with only 4C/8T, slower PCIe, etc. But it's absolutely an option. The reason I don't recommend ANY C2000 based motherboard is they have a design defect which causes most of them to die. There are workarounds by soldering resistors to motherboards, etc. but in general, most C2000 Atoms will die early. You can Google "C2000 bug" for more information on it.

@sprocket5526 2 месяца назад

I have been eyeballing this board for a while. Though I have been holding off since Intels booboo with crashing 13 and 14 series CPU's, and they are not exactly forthcoming regarding which CPU's are effected. I'm actually hoping they would do this board just with AMD processors. And to be honest, I'd rather have an AMD 7600 then a Intel I5 13500. Power consumption actually matters where I live, NOT CHEAP.

@PeterBrockie 2 месяца назад

My 13500t idles at 20w with multiple SSDs and fans, etc. Turbos to 90 all core, and drops to 50w. So it isn't too bad.

@sprocket5526 2 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie TY for the answer. 20W in idle is more then fine actually. Thats how it goaing to live most of the time It's gonan be a NAS/plex server for the most part any ways. Though I do plan on running a ARK server, if it wasnt for that the N305 type bords would be more then fine I think.

@PeterBrockie 2 месяца назад

@sprocket5526 I don't mind the N series, but I think the N305 costs way too much for 8 E cores. A NAS board with the N305 is usually around $300. For a little more you can get this board with WAY more expansion, and a 13500(T or normal) and have 20 threads for actual VM work.

@computersales 3 месяца назад

The only bummer is I'm not a big fan of these random brand boards. They offer cool and weird features but you just got to wonder what's hidden in them. Granted windows is basically malware now so I don't know why I'm worried. 💩

@denis2381 3 месяца назад

There is not much more then on others. Considering the chipsets are intel/amd

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

Where would it be hidden? I mean, the bios flash chips can be read out and a hidden device will show up to the os as something (storage, keyboard, or whatever). I fairness CWWK is a brand I would consider a name brand in the space along with Topton, etc. They've been around for a while.

@computersales 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie beats me. Ironically I think Asus got in trouble for having malicious stuff on one of their boards. With these more sophisticated UEFI BIOS boards I think there is more they can do. Especially when most good boards can phone home for BIOS updates.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

Yeah, it is ASUS. They store their driver installer in the bios (or maybe it's a system to just pass a download request to Windows). I'm just sayin' something like that would be found pretty fast, I suspect.

@computersales 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie probably. All my infosec friends tell me all I need to do is watch network traffic and write a firewall policy. I'm lucky I'm able to use Wireshark to figure out unknown static IPs of devices though. 💩

@ckckck12 3 месяца назад

Shift the conversation to mATX and all your concerns go away. I will say that if I look at this gem you found here I might get what I needed and save $3-500. With mATX you can get a ton more stuff though. Big NIC, more drives, pcie 4x4 nvme in numbers, etc.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

It's kinda funny how few mATX options there are for the newer platforms (AM4, AM5, LGA1700) with 8 SATA ports. Obviously you're getting more slots so you can just toss in a card, but for native motherboard SATA it's just a handful of AM4/AM5 boards which are currently available with that many ports. It's a case of either going with older gen stuff or these specialized NAS motherboards coming out of China.

@ckckck12 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie absolutely. That's where I'm at now unless I go up to an ATX. Is there any reason an LSI 8 drive pcie card is less useful than ports on the motherboard? I love that cooler you've got dude.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

@@ckckck12 Not unless you're trying to keep costs or heat/power down. The LSI cards do pull decent wattage when you're talking about a board which pulls under 20w. Plus they indirectly add noise since you -need- to cool them with either an attached 40mm fan or high case airflow. That being said, they work well and are cheap now. Plus with a cheap SAS expander you can add dozens of drives for under $100.

@ckckck12 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie ugggh. I am trying to get it low. Electricity is cheap here but I'm just trying to build a NAS to be relevant for 8 years or so.... Aiming at 35w tdp stuff. I have a Synology but from their show in Singapore this week I can tell they're walking away from small time users. I don't want a 2019 processor in 2030 and I doubt they're putting out a hot modern DS1825+ this fall. I swear you can't win these optimizations. Thanks for being helpful.

@drewnewby 3 месяца назад

@ckckck12 Agreed, given ITXs primary market isn't NAS, board space for SATA is lower priority. mATX isn't much of a compromise.

@Megatog615 3 месяца назад

my question is WHERE IS THE CHEAP STUFF

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

Those 6 port boards are like 130 bucks. If you're looking for super cheap just go on eBay and track down an old board for cheap. Many old boards are like 20 bucks with a CPU.

@ISHMAEL27 Месяц назад

asus pro

@Boerta 3 месяца назад

Great video! I've been researching NAS ITX motherboards myself recently, and I just stumbled across this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-R41_ZW4nMR8.html Looks like a new revision of the Q670. Looks interesting, but I haven't been able to fine any more information about it anywhere. Opinions? Please let me know if you find a decent place to buy one.

@Boerta 3 месяца назад

Also, what's your opinion about those sata controllers you mount in an m.2 slot?

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I've seen that video and motherboard, but despite it saying it's available... it doesn't seem to be. I'll pick one up for review if it isn't crazy expensive. Looks like an interesting board. M.2 SATA falls into the same recommendation as PCIe SATA in that they tend to be unreliable as they use cheap controllers instead of chipset SATA. That being said, they do work for lots of people and are cheap, so if you're willing to take the risk and maybe pick up a spare if one dies, they can be a really good option for boards with limited ports.

@robertbslee4209 Месяц назад

So many errors in this vid. Like only having one ram slot lol. The cpu is single channel why would it have two ram slots

@PeterBrockie Месяц назад

The N5105/N5095 have a max of two memory channels. Source: www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/212328/intel-celeron-processor-n5105-4m-cache-up-to-2-90-ghz/specifications.html Here is a N5105 motherboard with dual RAM slots. I stand by my complaint that they often only put one RAM slot for no reason. :P www.amazon.com/Celeron-Industrial-Motherboard-Threads-Processor/dp/B0CMQW3GXD

@wojtek-33 3 месяца назад

Stop using consumer boards, especially questionable Chinese boards if you care about your data. Supermicro and asrock rack have solutions.

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

I think it's safe to say the majority of people watching my videos aren't using these boards in a professional environment. Spending $800 on a Supermicro LGA 1700 ITX board is kinda silly for a homelab. :D Especially when they're way worse in specs in most cases and are a pain to track down new when you aren't a data center buying 5000 of them. I've had Supermicro boards die, I've had consumer boards die. All hardware can fail, all hardware will fail.

@wojtek-33 3 месяца назад

@@PeterBrockie lga1200 board is less than 300...

@fwiler 3 месяца назад

@@wojtek-33 That has 3 nvme, 2x 2.5Gb, 8x sata, vpro, type-c in an itx? Please do share.

@drewnewby 3 месяца назад

@PeterBrockie Agreed, homelabbers with pro gear is probably less about reliability and more about bragging rights. For the cost difference, data redundancy should easily offset any reliability concerns.

@IVCEGAMING 3 месяца назад

so back in 2017 you had an iboss viz this 1 [ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-48HsUPoXrTs.htmlsi=d_HTNH1MIYPukU8p] does it have ddr3 or for im looking into get ing 1 and i cant find any thing on it

@PeterBrockie 3 месяца назад

It's DDR3 on the motherboard. Be aware that not all iBoss rack units are the same. Some of them have much worse motherboards - try to find one where they specifically list the specs as it might be even older than the board in that video.