Same here. I love NWN 2. It's the game that really drew me into high fantasy. The game will always have a special place for me. It was really good to see a review with someone who understood what the game was going for instead of critiquing it for being light hearted at times and not completely grimdark like a lot of other games. I really appreciate Mort for being fair to the main campaign and showing it some love.
So sad they turn this single player franchise into a MMO crap , as much as i love Pathfinder , Forgotten Realms as a setting for Me is unbeatable , sadly this is the last SP Rpg that uses Forgotten Realms setting, now just waiting on BG3 to see if live up to the name .....
Bobby Null was lead designer on both, actually! I'd also say that while there's a lot of Storm of Zehir influence on Deadfire, what surprises me the most is how little people look at Fallout 2 as an inspiration for Deadfire's overall structure, as it too is essentially an open-world wild goose chase across a land filled with peripheral factions vying for control over the territory and so on - basically where the "plot" of the thing you're after (Eothas/the GECK) is a catalyst for the story which is best represented by the conflict between factions in this part of the world and so on.
For anyone looking to play NWN2, beside the main campaign and MotB, I would recommend trying out BG1 and BG2 modules. Some modder team implemented those games in NWN2 engine.
@@alessandromassi3659 I've played BG1 and Icewind Dale 1 mods and they work quite well. BG2 mod was released a couple of years ago I haven't tried it yet. I don't think there is an Icewind Dale 2 mod though.
This biggest issue was the camera system. At one stage Feargus Urquhart said, "The camera system will be like WoW." The camera system was nothing like WoW - it sucked. Dragon Age Origins has to date made the best camera system of any TTRP-cRPG and that includes the BG3 camera whish is laborious af.
Same! I was terrible and cheated my way through it because I didn't understand any of the game mechanics... But I loved it, and it got me into the genre
Great review as usual. You didn't mention it, but Storm of Zehir's story was meant to lead into the events that brought about D&D 4e in the Forgotten Realms - and we know how well those were received.
I played both campaigns prior to playing BG1 and 2, and love it, especially the Mask. It was only after I played BGs that i realised how many cool ideas either inspired some of what I loved about these two, or were pretty much copied by Obsidian. Still, I have fond memories of NWN2 and MotB
I used to just replay the opening of SoZ for days at a time. I love character creation in games, and having a system where you can make a whole coterie, advance them through levels and equip them as you go before even playing the game was my autistic heaven. 🤣
SoZ isn't for everyone, but it's still my favorite outside of the base campaign. Not a knock on MotB. MotB is good. I just prefer the light hearted adventures. I'm one of those people that prefer the Hobbit to LotR, or LotR's opening in the Shire.
I think it is still underrated, I fire it up and play it every now and then. You hit the nail on the head with the wasted potential the platform and system has. A really good game that could have been great!
Biggest issue I have with NWN2 is the camera. Frankly it’s terrible and while I appreciate having full party control, the camera makes it feel far worse than Baldur’s Gate or Icewind Dale, for instance.
The ending of the main campaign was the reason why I never replayed it despite absolutely loving the other 99% of it. Back in the day the letdown was even worse because I went in blind and was just baffled.
I legit forgot how horrible it was because MoTB was so damn good it wiped it away. I could not imagine playing the game and getting that ending before the expansions came out though.
Whats bad about it? that you and your party die to save the world? I mean sure its a little unsatisfying but bad? I dunno guys. Also a hot take. I liked the mask of the betrayer ending more but the other 99% is better in the original campaign.
@@hjalmar8986 well i My main problem with the original campaign is that its drawn out and unfocused the last boss is a bit of a let down . crossroad keep is awesome. I want more of those mechanics
Mask of the Betrayer does some good work to fix the bad ending of the base game. However, what is sad, it doesn' give any justice to the base game companions. We barely get a hint what happened to them after the final battle. Well maybe with the exception of Bishop, that is.
Yeah, MoB is a great story. But I never felt it fixed the OC's horrific ending. What they did to the party in that game punished the player for caring about them.
@@shawngillogly6873 Yeah, that's the main issue with the ending. If you cared about your companions, you basically get to learn most of them died. None but Khelgar and Ammon Jerro get a decent ending. It's just sad because the OC had fantastic companions and they didn't deserve such a horrific ending.
MoTB felt like it could have been an entirely different game considering how tangentially related it is to NWN2's base game. Part of me disliked how little it had to do with it, but part of me liked it, as I wish MoTB had been a stand alone game...
@@planescaped It should have been a stand alone game. I remember how excited I was to continue my character's story and find out what happened to him and Neverwinter...only to realize I'm on the other side of the continent with nothing to do with the original story and a completely different tone in the story. While I enjoy MOTB, I HATED the tonal shift and direction the story took. It should have been it's own game while SOZ should have concluded the Knight-Captain's story having more to do with Neverwinter.
One of the most memorable Crpg's I've played despite its flaws. The end of the main campaign, while disappointing, has a redeeming quality, which is that you can choose to betray your party and side with the main antagonist and even betray him after that, in which case he has a little surprise in store for you. ^^
@@Daioblis You're right, after checking, I mixed up the ending where you say you won't share power with the King of Shadows and kill him and the one where you betray your companions and join him, but maybe some of my companions betrayed me by joining the King of Shadows, I killed them then I betrayed my remaining companions. It's been more than 10 years I don't remember anymore. 😅
Aaand I will mention it again, NWN2 was the first RPG game that allowed you to build your own fortress, build buildings in it, and you were able to play as trader as well. Such a great and underestimated game.Later they made the Legends of the Sword coast game which was amazing, but the story was not that interesting.
Oh man, I still remember how big of an improvment it was over fist one. NN2 truly felt like a HUGE adventure, not as good as BG2 (but tbh - There is no game as good as BG2), but still quite epic. I still remember defending your stronghold and the buildup leading to this as fantastic "gaming moment". Overall - Another really strong title in Obsidian's portfolio.
Khelgar and neeshka were awesome early game then it seemed like their storylines and interactions just got dropped mid to late game. Also monks suck. Don't do it khelgar
They still have some interaction if you keep them in the party throughout the whole game but yeah, as the game progressed and the stakes became more serious, their light hearted banter became less and less. But you can tell by the end of the game they were inseparable BFFs. They were always next to each other and Khelgar was clearly distressed when Garius captured Neeshka.
I remember walking through a village where apparently some "war crimes" happened, with an evil ranger in my party. It triggered a question towards him with a skill check involved. I think it was a persuasion or diplomacy skill check. I had no points invested into that skill, but had a +1 cha bonus, so I rolled a 1, +1, vs a dc of 3. The Ranger replied: "I am not spilling my secrets that easily" or something like that, lol.
Going back to NWN2, experiencing Obsidian Entertainment writing a standard RPG hero plotline has to be one of the most subversive experienced I've had in gaming since KOTOR2.
NWN 2 failed because when it was released it was using granny proprietary animations(save the company on time making their own system) so content maker could not even make a chest variant. As a CC for both nwn(s) this was a real killer for many of us. The community eventually got a work around now, but most everyone had moved on by that point. The toolset was not complex to work with, but poorly designed UI and it does take more time to get your finished product. It my favorite edition of D&D also and you statement of lost potential hit the nail on the head and really saddens me. :( . I wish and would love a enhanced edition! I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but WOTC is probably the big jerk blocking this though as to make their 5th editions stuff to shine above all others. They have even put a stop to DLC/expansion(s) in NWN1 EE that customers still want.
I must admit that I was myself surprised how much I disliked the visual style, or aesthetics if you will, of NWN 2. The 3d modelled portraits, the UI (like the map). Additionally, it ran pretty poorly considering the not very impressive graphics. I did like the idea of having a party, instead of only a hemchman. But I didn't like the companions to be frank. Maybe they deserve a second chance? Though, DnD 3.5 is my jam! I liked making character builds in an online character builder. It was my RPG-substitution therapy.
D&D with its size of content always intimidated me as a kid. NWN 1 and 2 broke that and left such an impact that it made me a huge story/lore driven RPG fan ever since (bizarre side effect, it made me like math too lol) . Deekin the kobold is still my fav char years later haha.
Fun fact : Mysteries of Westgate was one of the 1st paying DLC at the time (to my knowledge at least), and a fan-made one at that. So I never played it, and I don't think you can get it legally nowadays without rebuying the whole package on GOG. There are a lot of great custom campaigns though, including one evil campaign that is insanely expansive (lvl1 to epic IIRC, across all of Faerun).
Great review, loved both of neverwinter night games and i agree if you play NW2 consider the main campaign and mask of the betrayer as one story and you will love it! Its a classic.
I can give feedback on this (multiplayer & modules section) - I built PWs and DM'd them for NWN1 for maybe fifteen years. When NWN2 came out, I played through a fair bit of the campaign until I was hard locked and save corrupted, at which point I started looking at the existing servers (at that time it was a reboot of the Star Wars NWN1 server, some Dragonlance stuff, one LotR server and some RP PWs trying to be Arelith (if I remember correctly)). The toolset for NWN2 is significantly less user friendly than NWN1s, there were sigificantly less options for placement, the sound effects were not as strong and as such it was difficult to build ambience. A lot of the tilsets were very neat, particularly the cityscapes, and there were a lot of new opportunities there, but NWN2s multiplayer community was consistently about a fifth the size of NWN1s and there wasn't a lot of interest at that time in themed action PWs or action leaning RP servers. Thanks for reviewing NWN2 (And NWN1, my favorite game of all time!), looking forward to one day seeing a third game.
As i keep telling everyone. It is a shame neverwinter nights 2 has still not been surpast dispite being so old. Pathfinder games get close but are still inferior.
my first introduction to dnd back in 2010, four years after it released. Tried it with pirated version then bought it when GoG released it. I completed it many times and always my benchmark comparison to any newer RPG.
Overall I prefer Neverwinter Nights 1 for 3 reasons: 1) Story. 2) the Arcane Archer animations are great compared to NWN2. 3) You can play a shifter only in NWN1
I personally never understood why this game got so much hate from people, as I quite liked it, sure it wasn't anything amazing (expansion on the otherhand was) but it was a solidly decent-good game still.. I assumed most of the backlash was coming from fans of the first unhappy a different dev made the sequel. Although I did forget how awful the ending was, probably because Mask of the Betrayer was so freaking great. MoTB easily could've been its own stand alone game, and I kinda wish it had been. You get more out of it if you play the main campaign first, but it really feels like its own story that is only tangentially related to the base game. It was a lot shorter than the main campaign, but that's more because the main campaign was absurdly big than MoTB bveing particularly short. I remember it being much longer than 8-10 hours. There's a lot of optional content that you can miss in it, like I never did Gannayev's sidequest, as I forgot about it/missed it due to there being a fairly narrow window of opportunity to go back to an earlier level and do it. I dunno, maybe I'm misremembering, it's been awhile. MoTB is on my list of games I want to replay that I'm never going to get around to after all. :P And Kaelyn the Dove is probably my favorite companion character from any game I have ever played.
NWN2 was really a diamond in the rough. As much as it's praised in the comments here, I remember how the NWN1 community hated it, or was at least heavily divided. Sadly, some of the most notorious "haters" were the mod builders, be it for NWN2's bugginess (only after MotB it was really playable), hardware requirements (back then the "Crysis of RPGs") or the learning curve of the toolset. The game had a lot more potential for modding and general greatness, but was abandoned by most way to soon. The NWN1 community has never really stopped to create and making some awesome mods, including "real mods" as in new animations, tilesets etc., while NWN2 quickly starved out. I wish a few more would've sticked to NWN2 as well. Also, this game really deserves an Enhanced Edition, but again there seems to be no real interest - Beamdog are all die-hard NWN1 fans as well. :)
Given how much I hated the followers in the original NWN2 campaign, I loved SOZ because of it granting me the freedom build my own party and have their races, classes, alignments, and skills affect nearly everything you did.
Ha, I was *livid* about the ending to the MC, but MotB was awesome, even though (maybe because?) some decisions I'd made along the way gave a very bad ending to one of my companions. Just between us here, I loved NWN2 because of the beautiful graphics. Both the landscapes and the people. And okay, maybe those chain-mail shirts were a bit too form-fitting, but hey. There are compensations there, too. Ultimately though, NWN2 suffered *hard* from the lack of mod community compared to NWN. There were dozens of amazing modules for NWN1 (Aielund Saga, anybody?), but very few for NWN2. At least we got Misery Stone, right?
I created a online world for this game, 15 years ago. I had to leave it because I was moving. And then I didn't play again, I don't know why. I've been waiting for something similar to this game with such simple creation tools. Very easy to use.
This game is so awesome. I couldn't get into Neverwinter 1 because of bland story, but the second one was a blast. I also have to say I played it in 2018 so quite a while after premiere. Great companions, story and system. I think I will play it again on my steam deck.
I've got such mixed feelings about this game. Neverwinter nights 1, especially hordes of the underdark made me a massive forgotten realms fan and led me down on a book binge, NWN 2 when it came out, was a massive let down. The gameplay got worse, it was running horribly, the story was a big meh. Then Mask of the betrayer, turned into my favourite RPG of all time for a very long time (you do need to read the Avatar books to really feel the weigh of things in that game), but I am fascinated with the forgotten realms afterlife and religion. And Motb was probably the only game where I enjoyed playing chaotic evil more than the lawful good. And NWN 1 and Motb(the menu theme) have one of the best soundtracks ever made.
Looks like it's time to reinstall NWN2. I think it's been long enough since I played the main campaigns. Also, there's a couple of player made modules that I want to play again, like Dark Waters.
i HATED the mask of the betrayer's soul system. it brings absolutely nothing but a tedious timer to the game and soured my opinion of the title. the companions were also a big downgrade from the first game.
Understandable on the first point. Though it was incredibly easy to manage. I'm not sure how one could have trouble with it to that extent... And on the second, no, You are wrong. >__> Khelgar and Neeshka were pretty good. Grobnar was interesting comic relief, though no Jan Jansen. Outsidfe of Khelgar and Neeshka, SPOILERS and the Githzerai companion were the only cool characters, the rest were painfully forgettable and dull. Whereas every character in MoTB were fascinating, unique, and had excellent, well written backstories integrated into the game. Maybe Safiya wasn't all that interesting, but you need someone more grounded when your cast includes an actual bear who is also a god, a serial killer, child, and barbarian inhabiting a single lich body, or an angel on a crusade against the god of death, or a male night hag shaman. Sure there were far fewer companions, but MoTB went for quality instead of quantity.
With the Spirit Eater Mods found here you can make this much easier to deal with: lilura1.blogspot.com/2020/10/Neverwinter-Nights-2-Mask-of-the-Betrayer-Mods-NWN2-MotB-Mods.html
@@planescaped i was running a dual scythe wielding weapon master that rounded 400-800dmg... managing the soul system or the game did not give me any "problems", just a waste of time that did not add anything to the story... kinda like managing your hunger or repairing your equipment in a non-survival game. as for the companions: they mostly felt like a mashup of PC ideas rejected by sensible DMs. when everyone is special, special becomes normal and boring. ps. i still liked the game but the first was much better imo (except the ending)
@@planescaped Gann was an edge lord and Kaelyn was a self righteous ass. Yeah, the companions were indeed a downgrade from the more personable and relatable companions of the OC
Thanks for the review and for the notes re: steam deck - much appreciated!! I remember playing this game on Mac back in the day. Janky controls but felt much more like a classic TTRPG with the larger party as compared to Neverwinter Nights 1 (base game as least). Might have to revisit this one at some point…
I literally remember almost nothing from when i played it back when it was released. Well, nothing but Bishop fcking me over at the end. Have to replay it sometime. You had some sort of base too, right?
Bought this game the day it was released back in 2006 and played the hell out of it. It was everything I wanted out of the first NWN. There was a BG2 skin mod that I used with it for nostalgia.
This game forced me to install linux on my PC because I had to choose between getting my degree and playing NWN2. It was not an easy choice. Needless to say, one of my favourites (main campaign + MotB).
Wow, very thorough and detailed review, thanks! I just finished NWN 100% on Steam, and learned everything I wanted to know about NWN2 from this video. You're a gem!
Excellent video of a game series close to my heart as the former curator of the Neverwinter Vault ;-) I will point out one thing though, the dearth of NwN2 content was not so much that the tools were more complicated (they were) as Bioware licensed the Gamebyro engine, which required a proprietary plugin for character modelling and animation. We literally could not edit or create new creatures or characters, which is a serious blow to porting up our thousands of NwN1 projects, and the reason NwN1 is still the goto platform for the classic persistent worlds
Yes, if you go into settings there should be an option to toggle it on or off. At least I. Character mode. Although I don’t know if you can turn it off in strategy mode.
I owned the game retail back in the day. NWN1 & 2 really got me into D&D, but my god 2 was an absolute NIGHTMARE with game breaking bugs, literally couldnt progress in the OC at two points after first installing the expansion the first time. Anyway I own it on GOG now. I am so glad they sorted the problems out and gave new life to this beautiful turd. 3.5 implemented very well and the Pathfinder games are a great spiritual successor.
Lack of "recommended" button for leveling is why I have dropped Pillar of eternity. They expect of me to read through every single spell and trait? Ok...I can do that, I dont like it but I can. Buuuut to do that for every single companion in the party? Nope.
i have tried like 5 times to get into this game but every time I fail to make it past the intro festival part. the primary reason is the terrible camera and movement controls, they are truly god awful
If you still love this old game you should check out my Facelift mods on the nexus and the vault. NWN2 Facelift Pack is a mod I made in the early 2010s and Character Facelift 2022 is my latest mod, ongoing, with a goal to improve the character heads in the game to more modern graphical standards. For some reason I keep coming back to this game, the ease of modding, the vast quantity of community created assets and content, it's a modders dream, only eclipsed by NWN1 IMO. I guess the Elder Scrolls games have bigger communities but I never really vibed with the Elder Scrolls world and lore. DnD is more my flavor of choice. Great review, you hit a lot of the issues the game has experienced right on the head. The biggest problems with NWN2 were bugs and NWN1. Despite being a graphically and gameplay superior title, NWN2 just couldn't compete with the already booming NWN1 community adoption. I personally prefer NWN2, more modding possibilities and in depth editor/tools but I can see the appeal in the first game too. Communities keep these games alive and are in and of themselves, their own reward.
SPOILERS The reason the main campaign ending is so disliked is because we have all these really good characters and the end of the main campaign is "Rocks fall, everyone dies." Literally. You don't get even small epilogues unless you speak to an optional NPC in the expansion pack.
Are the controls largely the same as the first Neverwinter. I enjoyed Neverwinter back in the day, but going back to it recently it just felt clunky compared to more modern games
Grobnar: The Wendersnaven they're several hundred Khelgars high - Khelgar: What did I tell you about using me as a unit of measurement? Grobnar: - several Neeshkas high.
Checked out WotR after i stumbled across your channel, and bought it day 1 when it launched. Honestly glad I did. The Pathfinder games are such a throwback to classic cRPGs with modern sensibilities, albeit buggy affairs. WotR is truly the most EPIC of epic campaign cRPGs and stands among the legends; Infinity Engine greats, NWN1 & 2; DoS:2 As for NWN2, its an obsidian game. Always good stuff, but but a bit messy technically, but superlative, thanks to the amazing writing they do. I still remember MotB for it's eerie atmosphere and amazing plot line. Absolute diamond in the rough, and everyone who loves great RPGs should play it. Great review man. Truly unique channel here.
Great review, based on what i remember from playing NWN2 and MotB , you were spot on. Could've mentioned the base building "minigame", as bare-bones as it is, as well as a few things about the sound and music design.
I was never fond of NWN2 mainly because I can't help but compare it to NWN1, and then it just feels like fall from grace. The main thing is the clunkiness, even though it's a much older game, 1 just feels way more fluid to play. Then there's the interface, 1 had a really comfortable one which also looked great (and had really nicely drawn unique item icons), 2s is just abhorrent to me, Then there's the art direction, honestly, I just can't stand how 2 looks, it's just ugly, from monster designs to armor looking like wet rags glued to characters who appear to be very cheap wax figures, and then the iffy animations (when I'll always remember how cool 1's dance-like combat looks).
Actually replaying it again. This review put me in the mood. I will say character camera mode is downright unplayable. Now I realize why I've never played that mode before. Visually it's more impressive, but it's buggy as hell and a pain in the ass to move. Exploration mode is the only camera mode worth playing (using click to move mostly). Though had to switch to strategic mode to target a few fireballs out of range. Character mode was making me want to quit the game, it's that bad. They did a lot with this game engine. Straight up better than NWN 1 in every way. It still doesn't allow the choice and questing you would get in a game like Fallout: New Vegas, but it's still a solid game. Obsidian was at their prime then. I feel their quality has slipped a bit since the late 2000's.
I remember getting my nickname from NW2 MoTB when I was a kid. Since we had the spirit eating thing, I changed it to "souleater". I've been asked if I was a fan of the anime ever since (even though I didn't even know that anime existed lmao). Great game and memories.
No matter how much I overall like this game, but you can't romance Neeshka, and this is a Cardinal Sin. 0/10 for me. (7.5/10 for me if I ignore what is blatantly the worst mistake they made in this game.)
Do you know how to set this game play for multiplayer? I remember played this game in multiplayer mode around 2010 But i cant do it know with the game from gog
Most "games" you just consume. What makes "games" like NWN different is that they aren't really games. Instead, they are a self contained universes in which you can create games/modules. As long as the universe itself works, there is infinite replayabilty. The quality of the gameplay depends on the abilities of the individual or team that created the module. When you create a whole new universe in which to create new games, everyone must start from square one. Worlds must be created all over again, and that takes time. Starting anew in an unfamiliar surrounding is never easy.
Another reson it didn't get as popular as the first game was that modules got realy large reraly quick and the ammount bandwith back then was often not enough to download stuff in a resonable time in many parts of th world. (Large as in megabytes)
The problem with SoZ is... Why did they put a story/final boss in there? The mechanic is cool, the adventuring for the sake of of it (and make profit) is cool, competing with other mercant houses and the castle bulding think are ok, but the story... Meh.
