This is the new window cut expander die body from the guys at 21st century, when i first came across this new design it really appealed to me and along with their expander mandrels which come in half thou increaments.
Hey guys just wanted to add a quick note in regards to the case positioning inside the body die something I could have shown on camera but didn’t realise it until I watched it back, I have since rotated the die body another full revolution so that the case neck fits a little further up into the die , but still has enough room so there is no damage caused to the case neck.
Thanks Skunk for the comment and for checking out the video, yeah they make some nice products , I too also have a few things by them , I highly rate them , cheers G.👍
Thanks for making video. I think you should leave the graphite inside expanded neck and also dip bullets in it before seating. This has been shown (and can easily be tested again for your self, (see other tests on youtube of this)) to give the most consistent ES. I think also that maybe the off stated .002" of neck tension has also been shown to actually be the best (again see other youtube test videos). The ball on set screw of lock collar is plastic per 21st century web site.
@@GianniG55 Thanks for the video. I couldn't find any others on that die besides the XXI Century video. I've been using a chamfered + smoothed down plug gage in a collet and a bullet puller for months. My groups are much tighter. I have an old K+M with low force pack setup, but want to move into 21st century's hydro press (or whatever they call it) Megabucks$$$$. Maybe after Christmas if the entire gun industry isn't locked in a Gulag under Biden.
@@greenacres4518 yes it will be interesting to see what your new president is going to do for the gun community 🧐 21st century do make some lovely products and have a lovely price to go with it , I guess you do have to pay for decent workmanship and materials it can be scary what we are will to pay , to try and shoot little groups, or at least that’s what we tell ourselves...lol 👍
Hi, the cases are sized with the full length bushing die which gave me roughly 2 thou neck tension as this would squeezed from the outside , but I think that gets you close and once I’ve processed that batch of brass I would store them like that and as you would expect there would be a little spring back once left in storage , so I only use the mandrel before I seat any bullets when making some ready for shooting that way your minimising any spring back because once the bullet is seated inside the case there isn’t a lot of room for spring back so the mandrel I use should be large enough to open the neck to say one and half thousandth or what ever tension you like to set but you are setting it from the inside of the neck which I think is more consistent using a mandrel than just using a bushing squeezing from the outside, hope that helps cheers G.
Good demonstration thank you. I'd be interested to know what sort of springback you are getting with your mandrel. So I know what size mandrel to order, I'm guessing about .0005" on an annealed case ... does that look to be in the ballpark?
Hi and thanks for checking out the video, I think your right about how much spring back I would be getting as my cases are annealed after every firing so hopefully that would keep it to a minimum, when speaking to 21st century they did think that cases that were not annealed could have as much as .001.5 but I would also suggest that when each case goes up into the die that the dwell time should be anything from 6-7 seconds to allow the brass to settle better and not just ram them up and down quickly, I also tend to do this step of setting neck tension when I’m close to going shooting and not leave the cases for months as that could also lead to further spring back or at least that’s my theory lol , so I would say probably go with something like what I have done have one mandrel that would size it leaving about 1.5 thou of tension and then if you think that there is the possibility of a tiny bit of spring back probably go with the next half thou mandrel up , but if like some people who don’t want to anneal then they would probably be better ordering a few more sizes, hope that helps all the best G.
As long as you don't have too much excess graphite in the case, I don't think you need to clean the case. I have never noticed a difference. Some even say that it helps.
brettinnj hi, yeah I was wondering what people’s thoughts were on that matter I just had a concern that if I was having slightly less neck tension on the bullet already using the sizing mandrel would it be an issue with then having even less grip on the bullet due to the dry lube , I was careful to just give a thin coating but have not yet used the alcohol to clean off the dry lube yet .
Do you ever get a slight fare/bell of the case mouth with yours? Cause I've experienced that with mine even when backing off and not bottoming out mine does it.
Hi , no I can’t say that I do , have you checked what amount of squeezing your neck is getting from when you resizing your case in your die , in relation to your mandrel size is the die squeezing the case neck excessively if not I can’t see why or how it would flare the opening of the case mouth as the mandrel should be only able to open at the set diameter and not any larger , although if you were bottoming out that would usually explain the case mouth flare.
@@GianniG55 thanks for replying so quick! I've noticed the flare still even being careful not bottom the case out maybe I'll just send it back to 21st and get a replacement.
@@Criscuolo94 I would contact them and tell them what issues you are having so they can get a picture of what might be happening, and I imagine when you tell them they should hopefully ask you to send it in so they can see if there is something out of place, I’m sure they will help .
Hi Hugo , I don’t understand it they have not long finished making them and told me that this would be the new design that would be sent out with people’s order , so I recommended a friend and he was sent their original one , I have no idea why , and it took them so long to finalise this design.
Email received from 21 Century yesterday in response to query re. availability Mike, the dies with the windows were a one off deal only we dont run them just because the extra machining involved with putting the window in drove the price up to much. All of our products are compatible with Sinclair products , we used to make all of sinclairs products for them before we struck out on our own. Thanks, for 21st Century Shooting Inc
Hugo , well that is a shame because I think the new design is really nice , I would would sooner pay a bit more ( depending on how much more mind ) for something that was designed better.
Lol .. true .. although I must have waited about 6 months for that design to finally reach me just can’t believe they have binned it after all that time , big shame. 😣
Great video...what was ur neck tention on ur bullets 🤔 was it what # u wanted ..would also like to know if it was worth it.. did it shoot better... ect ect ect
Hi Jason , thanks for checking out the video I think when using just the bushing I maybe in between 1.5 thou and possibly 2 thou or even a touch over the reason I have looked into this is that when I used my Whidden expanderball which measures at .262 for the 6.5 I could feel that was just lightly expanding the neck but when trying it on multiple cases I could feel that some had more resistance than others which told me that not all cases were getting the same amount of sizing, so that’s why I ordered the 21st century one, I have only just recently received it and have to had a chance to see the effects so hoping to get out this week to get some results.😁👍
So maybe I missed it somewhere, BUT, I don't recall you telling us how you started your whole process. EXAMPLE - 1. started with a once fired brass, 2. cleaned and annealed the brass 3. used 6.5 expander mandrel to fit onto the 6.5 arbor to cut the neck down, 4. resized with neck bushing 5. used specific size expander mandrel to get the neck tension desired. How did you get to the point to were you used your specific expander mandrel ?
Were your cases FL or body resized before running the case neck into the mandrel. Be nice to see a video of start to finish of a round being loaded using a mandrel die some where in the reloading process.
Hi, the cases are full length resized with a bushing die , I show that procedure with my reloading videos on the channel , this process of using the neck mandrel would be performed once i have done all the necessary prep to my brass and would then use the mandrel just before loading my bullets that way I think you eliminate less chance of brass spring back , meaning that I don’t use the mandrel on all the prepped brass and then just leave it sitting there for weeks or months as this could lead to spring back because there is no resistance in the case neck due to no bullet being inserted which is why I tend to do it to prepped brass that will be used that week or there a-bouts whether for hunting purposes or range shooting. Hope this helps cheers G.
Hi Darkhorse , unfortunately due to run times and cost for this model they have chosen not to produce them for the time being and are only shipping their original design model which I think is a shame because 21st century are known for their high quality futuristic designs, sorry about that cheers G.
Hi, very interesting I suscribe to your channel. If I understand well, you are saying that with this die the mandrel can move a bit inside when the cap is closed tight, right ?
Hi , yes that’s right with the mandrel having a little movement it will be able to free float and self centre into the case mouth working together with the shell holder in your press.
@@GianniG55 Thank you a lot. In fact I have bought a similar die from another brand (Queens reloading), but since I'm machining my own stainless steel mandrels on the lathe I was wondering what was the best.
@@br4713 that’s great that your able to machine your own mandrels, as 21st century are the only ones offering 1/2 thou increments which I think is very good and you can possibly cut your own window into your die because unfortunately they have stopped making this particular version for the time being and just offering the normal die body , something to do with costs apparently.
@@GianniG55 It's easy to set the die so that doesn't crush any brass case : - take a fired case, run it into your press all the way up without the die, - put the mandrel into the die and screw the cap, - screw the die on the press until you feel some resistance, - unscrew the die 1 turn and set the lock ring against the press
Why on earth would you need to count to 10? Once the brass is sized that’s it, maybe 1/2 a second is good... curious your justification for such a workflow? Good quality video by the way, cheers from Canada and earned my sub.
LeadMonkey the reason for the time given to the case to stay fixed onto the mandrel is to try and prevent spring back as much as possible which cases are and can be prone too , it’s called dwell time , it’s just to help the case to remain set close to that new neck dimension / tension if you were to ram them home them remove very quickly from the mandrel chances are the springiness within the brass will make the neck tension different from case to case, thank you for checking out the video and subscribing most appreciated, cheers Gianni 😁👍
Hi mark , thanks for checking out the video, yes your correct they have stopped making them and decided to go with a different design , i think for what they were going to sell the one I have they thought it was to time consuming for the price they were selling at , so they went with a totally different model and metal and also twice the price which is a shame but I guess they had to do what they felt necessary to making it worth selling against the time it took to machine up, obviously I don’t have the newer model to compare but I very much doubt the metal will be flimsy I’m sure of it , and in any case if you ordered it there would not be any trouble getting your money back, cheers G.
Is this Robert Gilbert that has 2 youtube videos , with no subscribers in 7 years ?? Criticising someone that has thousands of subscribers in 2 years ??? Why would that be ??
I intensely dislike lock rings of that design. They are a poor excuse for adjustability. I throw those rings in the trash if any die that I order comes with that sort.
I understand what you’re saying and I would agree but to be honest the plastic ball that is in the ring has done it’s job and dose not mar the threads so will carry on using it for now.
