@@thesuccessfulone I don't need citation. It is obvious that debunk is advocacy for amateurs. It means nothing. Serious people have no use for debunking.
Lawyers, serious people whose opinions matter, are professional advocates and their opinions are meant to be taken seriously because the implications of their arguments can have serious consequences. There is nothing serious about evolution, So, debunk away.
The debunking videos are great because they're a two-fer... We get to see the latest asspull of desperate nonsense YEC are hysterical about, which is as funny as it is infuriating... Then we get to enjoy a science education presented as a systematic dismantling of YEC's grifty lies, in an endearingly nerdy, and unabashedly adorkable way. It's amazing stuff.
They serve an important purpose too... some people really do find their way to the light of science through through such videos... as per comments sections... a lot on Forrest Valkai's channel too...
We need to try everything, and that does work sometimes, but as often as not, it triggers The Backfire Effect. IMHO, a more certain way to help them see the light of reason is something called "Street Epistemology". It's designed to make them think about why they think what they think. And that's a good first step on the path. And with all the misinformation that is affecting the entire planet, I feel it is our duty to help them get back to reality.
@@dominicdoherty7208 I’m fine with the creationist debunking videos. But the creationist arguments are so stupid, anybody can debunk them. You don’t need an expert for that. Explaining the latest scientific findings? That takes an expert.
@@billcook4768 I think people get away with believing stupid arguments exactly because of your belief. If you think its below you to comment on an incoherent belief system, then you are leaving it out there unchallenged just waiting for an suspecting mind to absorb.
I’m so excited! I love how many finds of anthropological significance have occurred during my lifetime. After Neanderthals, Lucy was the first I was introduced to in high school biology. Since then, we’ve met Orrorin tugenensis, Sahelanthropus tchadensis, the Denisovans, Homo Naledi, and many others. It’s an exciting time to be alive!
Same! I have a children's book from the 1950s that described Neanderthals as stooped, beastlike men who we evolved from like 40,000 years ago. Literally the only bit of that that's correct is that evolution happened. The when, from who, where, etc were all wrong. We've come light-years in our knowledge of our own history since then. And there's still so much we don't know! It's all very exciting!
Regardless of if this idea pans out, it's what I love about science and things like this, the previous ideas can be challenged and expanded, and in my experience most of the time either the hypothesis pans out and we learn new things, or it doesn't pan out and we have a better understanding of previous ideas
To be clear, it isn't really a new idea. David Begun (one of the authors on this paper) has been pushing the hypothesis that hominines originated in Europe for decades. The most comprehensive phylogenetic analysis of Miocene apes to date (published as recently as 2022) considers Ouranopithecus (which according to this paper is likely to be Anadoluvius's closest known relative) to be a stem hominine, but other European apes stem hominids. So... maybe he's right? But I honestly don't think this new fossil, cool as it is, actually moves the needle much at all.
How intriguing! Ape evolution is a captivating subject, particularly when presented in videos that skillfully dissect and elucidate scientific papers, making complex information easily comprehensible.
@@JD-wu5pf I swear, atheism robs people of their intuition and imagination. Believers are a lot more creative than atheists. Look at the Vatican. Look at what those Christians did. The best library in the world and the best Art collection in the world. I am beholden to the Catholic Church. Back in 2002, my wife had a heat attack caused the dissection of 2 coronary arteries. I took her to Saginaw St. Mary's, a hospital funded and managed by the Catholic Church. Thanks to the Church, there was a world class hospital that had a world class surgeon on staff. They saved her life. The surgery costs about 70 thousand dollars. I was poor with no insurance and I never paid a dime, and they have never dunned me. Every hospital I have ever been in has a chapel. Clearly, Doctors see that faith can be useful in the healing process. Thank you Catholic Church for saving my wife's life. Thank You God for your great mercy! Thanks for nothing atheists.
This is what I love about the @Gutsick Gibbon channel! New discoveries in primatology put into context by a brilliant, enthusiastic primatologist! Thanks and keep ‘em coming, Erika!!
Marsupials originally evolved in South America, horses and camels in North America... but that doesn't mean "modern" species of those groups are from there. This new fossil is awesome, but I don't think it puts the genesis of our species outside of Africa.
Oh, my. New fossil that potentially challenges the current assumptions. That must really excite you - nothing like having your area of planned endeavor popping out new and interesting puzzles! Thank-you for these videos on news from your field.
@@Seratan144It isn't compelling to you because your religion requires us to be seperate from apes. It is in your best egocentric interest to hold evolutionary theory to absurd evidence of proof, because if you didn't, the evidence from phylogenetics, comparative morphology, comparative developmental biology and paleontology is overwhelming.
So loved this just because it’s nice to hear a true expert talk in their field. Knowing that YOU know what you're talking about makes everything else so much easier to understand is really fun. I like listening to experts (i.e qualified interested parties) speaking about a subject relative to their speciality!
@@wornjeans6830On the positive side, when zoomers are running the world, ithe trend is that society is that it will be more respectful of valid science, and less religious and 'fear in ignorance' based. 😎👍
I wouldn't worry about their opinion of you since your view is the one with the evidence backing it up. Their view is based on an old book that they probably haven't even personally read.
@@gruelichkulsheim9445 "I really appreciate you and people like you who embrace reality, " If you can embrace it, you must know where it is and how to hold it. So, yeah, You did imply you know the truth about what is going on making you an expert in reality. Personally, I think you are full of it.
@@Seratan144 embracing what we can determine to be reality, using evidence, testing, and rational thinking, is better than fighting against reality and believing things there is no adequate evidence for. Seems like you don't like reality but reality is always real and those who stand against it are always wrong.
@@gruelichkulsheim9445 Now instead of saying, 'reality', you are saying "what we can determine to be reality'. You are back peddling. Your post is mostly ad hominem bullshit but then again what else do you have. Evidence! My ass! what would you know about evidence. I know that evidence can not always be trusted. Evidence can be manufactured or misinterpreted. Needing evidence means you don't have firsthand knowledge.
there's this display on ardipithecus in the arts and humanities building at my university and upon seeing it i was like: OOOH COOL i remember this from a gutsick gibbon video. i spent a solid 5-10 minutes looking at it.
With every new fossil discovery like this, it gives new opportunity to teach people about this amazing and everchanging story of our evolution. Great job Erika!
I shall have to view this several times. Thanks for the brilliant analysis of a complex paper. I am 80, and loving all these new discoveries. George in France.
I love seeing a true scientist reacting to new information that has the potential to throw existing knowledge on its ear. You view this new information with excitement and joy seeing the new opportunities and theories. Keep it up Erika!
I encountered somebody that was just flipping their lid claiming that this discovery proved out of Africa wrong and just absolutely lost it with me when I explained that this would be prior to the out of Africa events.
@@carlosandleon I suppose it depends on how far you want to go back and what transitions you want to count. The oldest confirmed primate remains are about 25 million years old from Tanzania. There are some from China claim to be twice that old but they haven't been allowed to be examined by outside scientists so it's not really confirmed. They were also found buried in a lake bed which complicates dating.
@elguapo2831 Your inability to comprehend the scientific method of processing and validating information is not evidence of your response, but is simply evidence of your inability to comprehend the scientific method of processing and validating information. Scientific method is a procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses. "Intelligent criticism is the backbone of the scientific method." A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. "Burden of proof (also known as onus probandi in Latin) is the obligation on somebody presenting [an] idea (a claim) to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to prove the evidence presented is not adequate. Burdens of proof are key to having logically valid statements: if claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true." "... . "Shifting the burden Fallacious shifting of the burden of proof occurs if someone makes a claim that needs justification, then demands that the opponent justify the opposite of the claim. The opponent has no such burden until evidence is presented for the claim. This is especially a favourite among pushers of unfalsifiable claims, most likely because the opposition's inability to prove it wrong subconsciously plants the idea that the claim being made has merit without actually having to present any evidence of their own. Falsifiability Often, someone will present a[n] idea and say that it must be accepted because it cannot be disproven. This is insufficient because without evidence there is no reason to accept an idea, even if there is no contrary evidence." "... . "God. Some theists maintain that unless atheists can disprove the existence of a god, or gods, their position is untenable. It does, however, depend on which of the many thousands of humanity's gods one has in mind; strangely, such theists cheerfully accept the arguments against every god except their own preferred one(s). On similar lines, some anti-theists maintain that because theists cannot prove the existence of their chosen god or gods, their position is untenable. A similar fallacy, from the opposite direction. The burden of proof lies with whoever is making the assertion. If there's no evidence, either way, it's a matter of faith, or lack thereof. Expressing a personal belief/disbelief in the existence of a certain god/goddess is sound enough, but claiming their opinion is factual or denouncing the opponent's claim as false without any proof supporting one idea or disproving the other is fallacious. While an unfalsifiable claim/hypothesis can be proven neither right nor wrong, it is reasonable to dismiss it as non-factual if it lacks logical supporting evidence." rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof Faith, especially religious 'faith', is the excuse people give when they are totally incapable of honoring their burden of proof requirements with demonstrable facts and objective reasoning. Faith is the excuse people give despite contrary demonstrable facts and objective reasoning. Faith is one of the most reliable ways to be dead wrong. Faith is a major roadblock to demonstrable knowledge because it plays into personal cognitive biases and self-deluding thinking, e.g., religious indoctrination. One's Faith is what charlatans, false prophets, con-men, and other nefarious individuals use against someone in order to defraud them of their valuable assets and resources. There is no utility in faith. Criticism of one's faith will historically gets one brutally murdered. You're apparently lacking in "intelligent criticism" capable of competently addressing the scientific method of peer review.
I think we still need more info to prove beyond a doubt that the human lineage absolutely came from europe to africa, especially in light of possible options like migration, far-ranging branches (of any size, honestly), or even moving back and forth from africa to surrounding areas and heading back later.
Slow down girl! My brain isn't capable of processing information as quickly as you can speak. Seriously though, you're very intelligent and provide great content.😀
Fascinating. I had heard about this discovery in the popular media and was quite pleased to see your video pop in to my feed. Your videos are not too long! You have me rivetted t o the screen the whole way through. You make these topics accessible to an old Engineer with only a passing interest in anthropology.
This was awesome and interesting! I saw where that dude in the hellscape formerly known as twitter was saying you copied his video... I can't begin to remotely understand his thoughts on that lol. I did watch his videos, and what a rabbit hole THAT was....
I am so happy you are covering this.! I was curious about this, but haven't had time to look it up yet. I am giving you the like even before watching ❤❤
That is so fascinating-to clarify, these are the first apes that returned to Africa and then continued to evoke into other apes that later evolved to us? Thanks so much for all the work you share :)
Great summary, Erika, with good explanations for the lay person! The presentation helped me understand and follow along pretty well ( at least as far as my aging brain allows)! 🤔🙂
Hey Erica I noticed that you basically grab a microphone and one-and-done a video in one go on this one and started realizing that you likely do that more often than I realize. That's impressive, honestly. That shows a level of presentation skill that is kind of exceptional imo good job
Could it have been Ice Age-type climate change which drove these Turkic primates southward back into Africa? Might not their Africa-based ancestors have left Africa due -- in part -- to the climate there having become too hot, making Eurasia's climate more tolerable then? Might there be any correlations between hot-and-cold climate extremes and the eruptions of volcanoes affecting the atmosphere globally?
It was definitely global cooling at the end of the Miocene that constricted the range of the Miocene apes! The large evergreen forests disappeared and were replaced by seasonal forests, driving European apes first into relic populations and finally extinct. That said, it is unlikely that a hot climate pushed apes out of Africa in the first place. Right at the end of the Early Miocene the African and Eurasian continents came together and all sorts of animals moved back and forth: things like apes and elephants left Africa for Eurasia, while things like carnivores (cats, dogs, etc.), artiodactyls (bovids, pigs, giraffes, etc.), and perissodactyl (horses, rhinos) came to Africa. A lot of things could live on both continents and spread out to occupy them.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. There was some warming ~16Ma but climate was very unlikely to be the catalyst for the faunal exchange between Africa and Eurasia. The exchange went both ways and African ecological communities were still strong. The exchange happened because there were suitable habitats on both sides of the newly developing land bridge and animals took advantage of that. And apes 100% still existed in Africa throughout this small temperature spike. The sparseness of ape fossils in Africa that Erika mentions David Begun using as support for his hypothesis about European origin of hominines comes millions of years later, when the earth was already cooling again. And even that is weak evidence for the absence of apes in Africa: Fossil apes in the Late Miocene of Africa are rare but not absent, and but this rarity may be due to the fact that there are relatively few relevant fossil sites at all. Finally, it's worth noting that this was almost certainly a range expansion (due to plate tectonics opening new habitats) and subsequent contraction (due to climate change), not a mass migration.
@@jeffreykspear Still, I think the idea is a good one. Line up the dates with what we know of climate shifts, plate tectonics, and any other drivers to see if we can discover more than just the sum of the parts in putting it together. Maybe there are unexpected correlations and additional information to be found.
Another suggestion. Always remember that YOU appear in a box either on the bottom left or right, blocking some of your screen. So, if you are reading text (or in one case showing a picture of Australopithecus's jaw), remember to put it at the top of your computer screen so that it's not blocked by the screen showing you. See 22:40 for an example.
What this makes me realize... Is I don't understand many scientific terms. I feel like this is cool news, but I have zero clue what half of this means. XD
Same, I've memorized and remembered a few scientific terms but by the time my brain recalls it the video is nearly done and 10 more words I certainly don't know have been said
I wish she’d write the names down too, either in the comments or on the video . I do understand what she’s saying but I’ve got a biology degree but I realize that someone who doesn’t have a life science degree or just happens to be mildly curious but interested in the subject is going to thrown by the jargon . Basic anatomy , taxonomic terminology and species names all come off as multi-syllabic hash if you don’t know it.
what are the chances that instead of the human/chimp lineage doing a return trip to europe it's only a small group that emigrated out to there and then went extinct there. favoring the return trip hypothesis over the small offshoot hypothesis feels like eurocentrism that shouldn't exist in modern science.
I'd like to take the opportunity to ask you a question. Let's say we have a site where we find some number of separated teeth, and we identify them to belong to the same species. How do we know how many actual individuals does this represent? There is one obvious restriction based on teeth position - if we find 6 teeth that occupy the same position, there must be at least 6 individuals. But what can we tell beyond that? Also, another, unrelated question. At what age do other apes lose their milk teeth, and what fraction of their life is it? From a purely pragmatic perspective, and based on current lifespans, we lose our teeth way too early. And I'm wondering what's the reason for that; was the teeth swap at about halway point in life in our ancestors?
Well, the damage must be consistent - when I chew something, my teeth get a pretty uniform, but unique to my bite, pattern of wear. An overbite would have dental attrition that's different from an underbite.
@@jameshall1300 That if you buy into their 6000-yo history, that fossil was indeed way before Noah's flood. Lighten up, dude. Not everything online is a personal attack or a conspiracy theory.
@@jameshall1300 I may be wrong, but I think Cyberius was playing on the fact that Anadoluvius was around millions of years ago and Noah's Flood was supposedly around about 5,000 years ago.
Of course it doesn't mean apes evolved outside of Africa. As in that's where they originated. That smacks of the racist anthropology attempts of the 18th and 19th century trying to make man's origins "European". All it means is that apes ranged that far, which is not at all odd. And sure any species removed will evolve over millennia to the new environment but man's origins in Africa is pretty nailed down.
I wonder how this will affect the out of Africa theory? Will we have a combination of the multiregional theory, or will it be the in out and back into Africa theory? This theory suggest it happens sometimes in various parts of the planet, but human evolution comes into and out of Africa all the time. Does anyone think these theories will get abused, disproven, or corrected?
Do you have any resources on it because I am trying to find out about it. I just recently got into the whole study of evolution. I have been reading and listening to many different things about origin of species. I also was just looking into things such Graecopithecus. I heard about the fossil like last year and did not think much of it because it was a new fossil. @@jimburton5592
@@Bildgesmythe Thanks and I am just waiting for many people to take this out of hand. I know crowds like sephr believe in Atlantis or the people of faith hold to certain twists on it. I am just waiting to see what and how this will turn into.
@@jimburton5592 I just assume ice ages have forced our ancestors to migrate back into Africa multiple times. Hence the presence of neanderthal genes in Sub-Saharan Africa.
I’m super suspicious of Europeans finding evidence of humans evolving there instead of Africa. We’ve seen this episode so many times before. This linear line to a group of pre-humans that left Africa, migrated to Europe and went back doesn’t pass the smell test at all. Next, we’ll have evidence of European pixie dust sprinkled on this small group of “God’s chosen ones” that made them smarter, more advanced, and more ethical. 😂 Academia is in serious crisis. We’re entering a new Dark Ages in terms of lack of academic rigor and intellectual dishonesty. This new “finding” should be taken with a larger grain of salt than the room temperature semiconductor.
Another hypothesis is that Miocene apes originated in Eurasia and then migrated down to Africa. Also, you just dismissing evidence because of a complete straw man is dishonest.
@@redmage5251 Except it is a straw man. He is saying that the paper claims humans evolved in Europe, when in reality it claims its human ancestors that evolved in Europe. He then extrapolates this into a slippery slope fallacy, saying that this will lead to a justification of racism and that Europeans were "God's chosen people". Which once again, is based on a straw man.
Naw that’s a valid suspicion. It was worse when I read in the comments that this wasn’t a new theory and that someone was punching this for decades. But this sounds like an exceptionally measured proposal that doesn’t look to overturn out-of-africa nor fabricate some grand claim to human origin. Rather than something so sensational and incendiary this discovery just offers some evidence of something we can generally assume: the evolutionary tree of life has roots that pass through many places over millions of years.
This hypothesis has nothing to do with where "humans" in the modern sense evolved. It concerns only the origins of the Miocene apes which is prior to hominids even existing. It has no bearing on either the first out-of-Africa event of about 2mya - the migration of early Homo Erectus groups into Eurasia and their subsequent radiation into numerous species of the Homo genus - nor of the still later movement of Homo sapiens itself out of Africa and it's rapid global expansion after 70kya, a very recent development in a paleontological framework, which is richly confirmed by fossil & genetic evidence. "Human" evolution isn't pertinent in this discussion and "prehuman" (an arbitrary term since there is no specific point in the past where our primate ancestors started "becoming human"; those existing 9mya were also "pre-chimp" & "pre-gorilla" as well) if it has any meaning at all, would only refer to those living after the split with chimp ancestors 6-7mya. Any Eurocentric bias could only have a potentially insidious psychological influence when discussing actual modern humans, as has certainly occurred in the past among researchers with racist & ethnocentric agendas As for the silly comments following your initial defensible call to be wary of geographic bias, they simply dissolve any trace of intellectual credibility you might lay claim to.
Very nice explanation. Every since I saw the Dminisi skulls, I thought that there was a missing link (!) in the human evolutionary story. May you grow in both wisdom and knowledge.
Oh my goodness, this is cool! A long time ago I was a paleoanthropology student (undergrad/grad) at the University of Toronto, and I took many courses from David Begun, so I'm really familiar with his work and ideas. He's been promoting a Eurasian origin for the African great ape clade for decades, and I believe him. :) I kind of drifted away, but a few weeks ago I came across your channel, so it's time to get caught up again. Thanks!
7:15 Çorakyerler Ç is prounouced as Ch as in chocklate ıt basicly means Çorak= wastes, infertile lands not fit for plants and yerler=places turkish is phonicly consistent which helps. anyways hope I helped with some silly language stuff (sorry for the english misakes since dont have spell check)
Thanks so much erica. I don't know enough about details to find this shocking, but it's great to have a free source to learn about the most recent findings on human evolution. Truly appreciate you
It's ironic a lot traits we consider "Primitive" like increased canine length, increased sexual dimorphism & knuckles-walking are actually derived traits that evolves separately in both the Chimp & Gorilla-lines.
If you put Çorakyerler in Google Translate and hit Turkish and the Listen icon, you can hear a robotic approximation of the pronunciation. The tailed C is not hard, more like ch in chore. The word apparently means "wastelands". Otherwise, an excellent discussion of the paper.
Better yet: if you directly search here on YT, you get circa 10 vids with reports and vidblogs (in Turkish) about the place and the work being done there, including the 'Çorakyerler Fosil Lokalitesi'
