When I commented on the community post about why this thing exists, one of the main replies was about those who work in a data center and how having the jack attached to the laptop was a must in an environment like that. I think your conclusion was correct - its a niche product for a niche crowd and the price reflects it. Those who need it are happy and those of us who don't can simply not buy it. Good job framework for listening to your customers.
If that product works for you then get it but for some people this is the product that works for us so quit telling us that it sucks when you don't know what we need. I have seen this type of thing before specifically I saw someone comparing something to a raspberry pi and it didn't have GPIO pins.
On windows you have to disable "power saving" on both the root USB host as well as the device to prevent USB to Ethernet devices from dropping out at times. This is not a problem for most usage, but anything that wants to maintain a TCP connection it is a issue.
i was one of the people that purchased it when it became available. I don't mind it sticking out either and my use case of walking around between server rooms without a dongle is extremely beneficial to my workflow. I don't mind the transparent aspect of it but can see why some people wouldn't like it. At the end of the day supporting framework and seeing them build out more products is always gonna be my way to justify the cost.Good review
@9:00 I generally like the aesthetic of transparent plastic housing for electronics, especially given its symbolic relationship to right-to-repair, but it seems out of place on a Framework where nothing else matches that aesthetic. It doesn't come off as cheap to me.
A revival of the pop out XJack would've made it more compact. No sticking out, flush with the bottom. XJack easily fit into Type 2 PCMCIA and CardBus cards and was pretty strong. 3Com and US Robotics (mainly outside the USA for USR) had an exclusive on XJack for modem and Ethernet for a while. What I'd love to see in a Framework style laptop is a revival and expansion of ExpressCard. Add a second section to the connector that's all PCIe lanes then make the original part ExpressCard 2.0 that's PCIe 2.0 with USB 3.x. Call the new design ExpressCard 3.0, featuring PCIe 3.0 speed. Should be able to stuff x4 into a 54mm wide connector.
Completely agree on XJACK, Greg. That is the first thing I think about when I see this chonky ethernet solutions. YES, it is obviously more fragile. Of course they break more; that's why most OEMs stopped using them 10-15 years ago. But they were a slender, elegant solution to PCCARD/PCMCIA cards of my college years. And now, with repair specs being open source; the fragility is not NEARLY as much of a dealbreaker as before. Accidentally pop the slender plastic back off your xjack eth card? 3D print a new one, screw it back into the threads on the side of the metal main body! The only purpose of that back plastic was to hold the eth cord's twisted pairs in place. Those little metal pogo pins break? A little more pricey, sure, but probably still a 10-20 dollar solution instead of a "well, time to buy a whole new $100 card, dammit" situation of the 2000's. I would definitely, 100% fund/back/kickstart a framework expansion that used a tech like xjack.
@@heiseheise newer plastics could be much stronger than what was used on XJack ports in the 1990's. With a Famework module it could be designed with a hinged piece to pop open downwards if the cord gets yanked too hard. Just snap it back up to fix it.
I really like framework, but I do enjoy casual gaming and prefer AMD cpu/gpu combo for better Linux support. So they haven’t really been an option for me yet. I am irritated by laptops ditching Ethernet jacks. Being a Network Admin it’s essential.
They just announced (and opened pre-orders on) an AMD 7040 series powered 13" Framework laptop (like minutes ago), just wanted to let you know ! Also, they announced for the end of the year a 16" framework laptop with discrete graphics and amazing modularity (even better than the classic 13", example : modular discrete graphics), though they didn't give details on what GPUs would be available or even different CPUs. Anyway people are likely to be soon able to do serious gaming on framework laptops, yay !
@@indigomizumi I’m actually waiting for this! I’d like to see the back expansion bay also have an OCulink option for PCIE x8. That way you don’t have to have the GPU on you at all times you can use the mobile GPU on the go, then Dock a desktop GPU at home!
@@DarksurfX Given the openness of the hardware I imagine the community will find lots of usage for the expansion bay. I'd be curious to see someone develop a capture card module.
I saw the thumbnail and thought that was a community mod, not an official part. Surely they can do better. Aren't there types of ethernet ports that are low profile when not in use, but expand when plugged in? Shouldn't that have been what they used, to keep the card, you know, inside the laptop???
ask them for XJACK type ethernet cards! We all need to give feedback on slim-style slide-out ethernet cards politely but insistently, so they know it'd be a popular choice.
The fact that they couldn't make the ethernet expansion card just like the rest is so frustrating it makes me want to try myself.. Two PCB sandwich design with a folding connector..
I mean, you can do it if you really really want to. It's all open source, I believe. IIRC it's partly because of heat dissipation requirements and some complexity issues. It's still likely doable if somebody figures out all the kinks, though.
I keep thinking back to the module and i still don't really like how it looks, but i get the size contraints.... I believe the height is mostly due to the full ethernet port, so i originally thought that a breakout port could reduce the height. But that doesn't really help with the depth. Now i'm thinking.......rather than putting the entire ethernet port on the laptop, what if we had a usb-c module that we can terminate a ethernet cable with 🤔
Is it possible the speed dropoff on linux is related to how you mount the fs (userspace vs. kernel)? I found on my local network I had to put CIFS mounts in fstab instead of browsing from nautilus, otherwise I got more limited filesystem performance....
Very thorough testing and well explained! I’m curious if you’ve done long term load testing. Does heat become an issue for the controller in the Framework adapter?
Please do a review of the "Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition", when it becomes available. Since most channels, do not have the expertise, to review it properly.
@@ElevatedSystems CJ, I definitely have zero interest in seeing a Framework Chromebook “review”, but I would be interested in seeing your analysis/editorial as to why this thing exists. To answer questions like why (realistically) would someone purchase this over just the main Framework offering and either dual boot/separate SSD/USD Drive to Chrome OS (like Flex)? What are the very specific hardware/firmware differences between the offerings (if any)? Should anyone expect any true “performance” differences between the offers? These are some of the questions I think that some would be interested in your analysis on, and I suspect you’d be able to effectively do that without actually having to purchase the hardware.
@@ElevatedSystemsI realized you have no interest in Chromebooks, so you wouldn't pay $1,000 to purchase one. I was hoping you would be able to receive one as a loan and review it. To compare and contrast to your Framework Laptop. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
@@StevenGladney ChromeOS Flex converted laptop is not as secure as a purpose built Chromebook. Due to hardware and firmware limitations. But I still have numerous other questions, such as can one dual boot, a "Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition"?
I would kinda like it if it were a break out port, like on the probook........but then again i'm a niche of a niche of a niche xd The size constraints is understandable too, kinda makes me wonder if the slots would have to be larger to accomodate for that 🤔
It sticking out is very big fail. Most people would probably trade 2.5Gbit/s capability for a smaller footprint. Other laptop manufacturers show that full RJ45 can easily be integrated with slim form factors.
@@HadeedSarfaraz Okay, I looked the exact dimensions up, and did a parametric search on RJ45 jacks. Lowest height I could find is 11.3mm. And the modules have a height of 6.8mm. So 4.5mm stick out. With the way the actual expansion slot is designed, there is no real way to fit a proper RJ45 inside, even for a foldable design I can't really see how that would work. Brings us back to design fail. Although the design fail was not accounting for the requirement of an RJ45 jack getting integrated. I still wouldn't bother with the expansion module, rather use the dongle.
@@nc3826 The dongle is obviously the better choice here. It's cheaper, and the stickout on their expansion module nearly negates all benefits of an internal module anyway. In some use cases, you might even leave the dongle attached to the cable instead of the laptop.
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My guess why they cut corners with materials would be that they are testing how many people would actually buy this. Its hard to determine if people actually want a feature or is it just the loud minority that expects it. Personally I don't care about ethernet port on my laptop even if I have more than 1Gb network at home. If I want more speed I just use my desktop instead.
They are, the FW 16 pre-orders should be opening end of this month I recall. It's a 16" modular, high performance, great display, and swappable dedicated graphics laptop.
Since SteamOS (and HoloISO for that matter) are based in arch like manjaro is, it would probably get similar results You should not use it for general computing tho
@@cystonks5374 Oh, I was just curious if it was possible and if it ran well. See, I got a Steam Deck and I wanted to see what where the limitations of thee SteamOS and see if it was possible to go beyond what Valve has setup for it.
?Imagine if this were a dual port 2.5G so after this ages out you can use it as a firewall/gateway appliance
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I don't think there is room in the module form factor for two Ethernet jacks. You could buy two of them for a dual port solution, but that would get a bit pricey.
@ Though i didnt say as much, I was suggesting making the module stick out a bit farter because you already cant fit a single port in the slot, might as well make it a little wider to accommodate 2 ports, IIRC that ethernet controller can support up to 4 ports, or it could be switched out for one that does support more than one, allowing for a minimally more complex board
If the network has proper switches, then it should be impossible for people to intercept your packets. Sadly, most places don't, so the only real advantage is that the observer has to be plugged into the network to listen in on you. Wi-fi is almost entirely interceptable since you broadcast all of your information in all directions all the time, so anyone with a wi-fi card can see you. If you use a VPN, this shouldn't matter either way, but oh well.
Would you mind trying out Xonotic on your Framework? It's a pretty good FOSS FPS that I recently got into and it only requires OpenGL 2.1 so on GNU/Linux-based systems, you can get better performance even with intel Arc A770 than a NVidia RTX 3080 which is kinda impressive 😄
@@ElevatedSystems on a second-hand laptop I got a few months ago Windows messes with Wi-Fi - random disconnects and connection failures only (temporarily) fixed by reboots are the rule rather than the exception. For some reason, Ubuntu doesn't have such a problem, but when I use Windows wired internet is really nice to have.
get at least a 5gbe usb card if you are going to upgrade - prices are almost the same as 2.5 - this review is a shortsighted product sham showcase - mostly
They have an intel partnership as Intel is generally more willing to give chips to smaller companies. They have said they are considering Ryzen APU powered options in the future.
Ryzen 6000 processors are also in short supply, even some of the larger laptop brands are struggling to get a steady supply.
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They want Thunderbolt 4 capability as part of their module concept; that has worked since day one, even though the Framework laptops are still not officially certified. And as a startup, it made sense for them to choose one processor family rather than divide their efforts. AMD didn't offer Thunderbolt support until the Ryzen 7000 series; that just started shipping and the laptop parts are not yet available. I will be disappointed if Framework don't offer an AMD option in 2023 -- but be warned that you will also need new RAM if you upgrade to it. The likely 2023 Intel upgrade to 13th generation processors, which will probably be the last Intel generation with DDR4 support, will likely be more popular with people who want to upgrade their current Framework laptops.
Terrible technology! For way too many years now it has become common practise, that new features only come at the loss of obligate, basic functionality! So stupid!
