We have lynx where I live... they are so shy, that photographers have to camp in woods for weeks to photo one. Just do not graze sheep right next to a forest and get a dog. Problem solved. They will not even come close if they smell a dog.
@@LeaveCurious All for reforresting and I have only ever voted green. But fuck Lynx, and all these other big predators that are being reintroduced these days. It is just going to keep kids and old people from ever going into actual nature again, and it is just a question of time until there are incidents. Animals adapt to changed modern contexts and before you know you have a problem. I want such animals around as much as I want a psychopathic great ape roaming a forrest I go into.
Good to hear all sides of the debate. I do, however, get a bit irriatated with the Brits: they expect India to protect its tigers, Africa its leopards, but are frightened of beaver reintroduction and terrifed of lynxes, which are completely harmless to human beings. It all takes time, and I'm sure that when people like Leaves Curious, obviously pre reintroduction and rewilding, goes to the trouble of listening to others, that farmers may also start listening to the other points of view.
I've learned that predators keep the herbivore species in check and with that allows the landscape to regrow as opposed to being decimated/over grazed. predators are integral to a healthy ecosystem
The population of Great Britain is increasing uncontrollably. Imported food supplies are becoming more expensive and unreliable. Food production per hectare is of paramount importance, not habitat regrowth.
@@gusgone4527 Our population is just going to have to learn to control its biological urges - if it wants to learn to live on a sustainable planet. If it fails to do so - then we all die, because we seriously cannot go on consuming resources and breeding at the pace we do. With regard to food, now we have ever-improving vertical farming techniques for growing many of our current fashions in leafy greens, there's absolutely no excuse for us to continue growing them in open fields, in greenhouses or importing them from abroad (together with all the carbon footprint of transportation and ploughing that would include). Every town and city in Britain has space enough for the setting up of one or more vertical farms - if businessmen can be bothered to do so. I was watching a video just the other day, a businessman (with no previous experience in farming) having retrofitted a warehouse as a vertical farm, which replaces 250 times the floorspace in terms of field/greenhouse area. (He is now experimenting with growing strawberries as well as other plants... So, think of that, strawberries that haven't been shipped all the way from Spain. They might even taste of something for a change!) We have the tech and capability to advance our agricultural techniques so we can grow a heck of a lot more food in a great deal less space. Part of that means facing the fact that we cannot (just as we 'shouldn't) eat meat on a daily basis. We never used to. During my childhood, my family would eat meat about 3-4 times a week, and only as a small part of an evening meal. That was quite typical. Now, typical families 'expect' meat at least twice daily, additionally as a snack, with fast food outlets reinvigorating the habit of it being a breakfast item (when cooked, meat-centred breakfasts were starting to die out during my childhood). We shouldn't eat meat on anything like the scale we do. Our doctors are constantly telling us to cut down on consumption of meat for the sake of our health: cholesterol, heart disease, colon cancer, and now gout. Gout is so 19th century - but our eating habits are creating a comeback for this very painful illness (just what the NHS needs). We can and should cut down on meat consumption, drastically - for so many reasons (I'm not saying you need to go vegetarian or vegan). And once the meat consumption is down, we don't need so many animals, farmers can better care for the ones they have, and not only can we afford to rewild some areas, but we can blend rewilding with agriculture - ie, growing fruit and nut trees in managed woodlands for example, planting them in such a way they can be easily harvested.
It's so wild to me that these native animals face so much opposition coming back... Especially something as shy as a lynx! I am from the USA, where many of my fellow hunters & farmers would unfortunately love to finish turning our continent into an overgrazed herbivorous hellhole. Since 2003, Washington's dept of fish & wildlife has been training Karelian Bear Dogs to effectively, humanely "restore the fear of humans" in released bears & mountain lions rather than euthanizing them. They are intelligent, versatile dogs which have been able help protect wildlife in many other ways as well, like detecting poached remains and responding to complaints of nuisance wildlife. Personally, this is where I think many future solutions lie: Both livestock guardian dogs, and trained "predator deterrent" dogs are very effective & safe for all parties involved. Both will require entirely different forms of education for the public and for farmers, but the public loves puppies far more than they enjoy learning about ecology...
Yes with guardians dogs, there general consensus from farmers was that there could be too much conflict with the public , as there is a right to roam. But always interesting to hear of what’s happening else where!
@@LeaveCurious Never quite understood that bit either -- unless they were harassing your livestock, your dog will not trouble them. The only predator that doesn't learn its lesson until it's been attacked by a dog, seems to be humans! That is why qualified individuals working with trained dogs to effectively "retrain" local predators is so valuable. A 24/7 livestock guardian dog is not always necessary, and anyway, if there is a shepherd involved, they should easily be able to control the dog. Personally, I have found it easy to stop losses from coyotes & foxes by simply making it a waste of their time to get into my yard. I take a loss or two every few years and have to lock everyone up, and send my dog to have a few neighborly chats with the predator in question when spotted on site. Predator spends a few days trying to dig into enclosures overnight, and spends the next few weeks observing the area in the day to catch you off guard. In about a month they move on, problem is solved until that fox or coyote is replaced by a new one years in the future, and the cycle repeats.
@@jase123111 Most land you're allowed to roam on and a farmer most definitely isn't allowed to shoot you! They can shoot your dog if it's off a lead and threatening their livestock though!
What I am reasonably certain of, as a Canadian who has lynx in the background of the wild places ALL my life, is that many Scots may feel that a lynx is the size as a cougar. Um, not so. Lynx are a small cat who hunts smaller prey, not generally an animal the size of a sheep or goat. And they are a shy animal. Its unlikely that even landowners will see a neighbourhood lynx. They are a solitary animal and so are rarely seen in their natural environent. Like most preditors, lynx tend to take weak and sick animals and actually work to keep prey species stocks healthy. I've been living in Canada with lynx, cougars, bears, wolves, etc etc for 74 years and I spend as much time as I can out in the wild places. I have only seen a wild lynx once. Never seen a wild cougar. Bears occassionally out of a car window. I'm more likely to see deer eating my veg in my veg garden, racoons have become city folk, we get the occassional young cougar in town looking for a territory to iive in and of course they have to be dealt with one way or another. Never seen a wild wolf although I have heard them often. Moose a few times, but not any of the other various hoved animals Canada can lay claim to, except elk who seem to like travelling on the hwys as a convenient way to get from one place to another in places of deep winter snow. And they seem to be curious around towns known for their sky resourts. And of course we have wolves but only see those out a car window as well. Have seen a city beaver. That was cool. You know, its not the big deal everyone wants to think it is. You get used to them, they get used to you. Everyone learns their boundaries, and you get to witness all these amazing animals being themselves. Many ranchers here and in the States have taken to using large sheep protection dogs to look after their sheep in the field, and that seems to be working really, really well for everyone. And as I said, most preditors can only catch the sick and injured wildlife. Anything that's really healthy can geneally either protect themselves or get away. You may loose the odd lamb, but if it ever gets to an all out slaughter you had better take a hard look at your own husbantry routines for your livestock. Really look.
You are right with everything except one thing. Eurasian lynx are in fact much bigger than the ones in North America and their main prey base is the roe deer, a deer species the size of a goat or sheep. But nevertheless they are harmless to humans and rarely kill livestock, because they like to hide and don't hunt in open places.
Excellent content, in my opinion compensation scheme for farmers is perfect solution, I have scene lynx in Spain and spoken to locals the impact seems minimal, the deer population causes so much damage it’s almost nonsensical that the reaction is not positive, the argument about breeding game birds is the ultimate example of biased land ownership within a small high income historical asset rich group of people, the birds are reared for profit and to be shot ..
Thank you for the update on this awesome initiative! Honestly I’d love to hear your hypothetical 40-60 minute summary I’ve worked on the Mexican Wolf recovery program in the US, and I can attest that building trust between stakeholders plays a vital role in recovery. There is still mistrust between many cattle ranchers and the US government, which keeps the relationship tense. However, the biologists go out of their way to communicate with ranchers, which at least helps mitigate tensions and has resulted in a slow but steady growth of the wolf population
Hi From Madrid Rob! Hopefully this long process keeps its progress and we can see in a not so distant future lynxes in Scotland again. I spoke about the spread of the Iberian wolf in Madrid's Metropolitan Area a few months ago in your video about the wolves in UK. Now there's an update. Not only there's a new pack of wolves living in the surrounding area of Madrid (we passed from 4 to 5 packs, the new one living in the South-western mountains of the region). There's also been reports of the Iberian lynx starting to enter the region from the south after being extinct for 30 years and coming from a remant population in Andalusia of only 94 individuals in 2002. Now the are spreading in a very successful way thanks to the reeintruduction program supported by a captivity breeding that has increased the population to 1,111 individuals by 2021 from the original 94. They're now naturally spreading towards the north, occupating regions where they were gone for more than a century. As well as it happened with the wolves, no attacks to humans have been reported and the livestock hasn't been affected at all by its presence as they also don't like to go far from forested areas to open grasslands. Hopefully Scotland can learn something from this example, as we now have 2 big predators living only 20 miles away from one big European Capital with a population of 6.5 million people without causing big problems to the traditional rural way of life in the surrounding area of Madrid. For sure Scotland would have a much easier way of dealing with the presence of the lynx cause we're talking about a very low densly populated area as the Scottish Highlands. If wolves and Lynxes can coexist with 6.5 million people here, the obviously can do it there too Here's a piece of how the lynx is coming back to Spain thanks to the reintroduction efforts in this video that was shot in 2019 for the BBC Documentary Seven Worlds One Planet, when the population was still 600 individuals instaed of the more than 1,100 of 2021, but that clearly gives hope of what could happen in the same is done in UK one day: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YjPHR2uHbds.html
Hi tocayo! I'm also Jorge and from Madrid haha. Great comment👌 but the number are even better, that value of 1111 lynx is of 2020, there is no census published yet for 2021. I vet it is now over 1300
Maybe is interesting to point out what territory iberian lynx and wolves need in Spain. Iberian lynx territorial female: around 500 ha Iberian wolf pack: between 6000 ha to 10 000 ha
@@soldadoN12 Hey! Yeah, that's totally true. For sure this year the number will increase to around 1500 individuals, cause each year they're reproducing quicker than the previous one. Very interesting the territory extension matter. I know the wolves can live in both forested and open areas, while iberian lynxes need Mediterranean vegetation with bushes and trees for their survival and they avoid grasslands and deep forested areas as they can't hunt so easily there. So I guess wolves could be covering all our peninsular territory while lynxes would cover the Mediterranean part of our it, which is also huge hehe
Thank you for that intervention. I am and always will be in favor of a wilder and healthier Europe, the problem is that many people just leave the human aspect of ecology aside, you didn't. I see it every day at university, it not always boils down to cold misanthropic feelings thank goodness, but there is a clear disinterested in the human aspect of those initiatives. Everyone would benefit from better conversation and ecological measures but we mustn't leave anyone behind ; I think that's be biggest worry of rural communities. As you said, Rewilding and réintroduction is not a black and white issue, it's not the end-all be-all solutions to all our woes nor is it a "nature only" issue. But it's a step in the right direction to help us create a more sustainable, resilient, rich, diverse, living, habitable and useful home. The involvement of rural communities is an absolute must, especially here in Europe where rural areas are always populated, you won't find large wild areas with few to no people like in the Americas. Coming from a rural background with some family members still active in agriculture to this days, I think you worded their worries well, and I sincerely thank you for talking about it and seeing them as legitimate worries. These issues are always about "how much are we willing to accept, change or concede to make it work" ; I think states and the EU should play a bigger role in this. Providing subsidies, funding and insurance to rural communities who would benefit the most from it. Rewilding is more like a natural evolution of their practices, rather than a destruction or change of their way of life. Rural communities need to be a pillar of conservation in Europe because they're both the closest to these happenings, the first to see and feel its affects. Why shouldn't we help the people that could make a wilder Europe possible?
Yes you’re right - i think everyone involved knows that rewilding has to happen & as you said, as a natural progression that considers local communities. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
When I think of Scotland I think of a more wildish environment than most other European countries. Keep up the conversation it is very important to restore the animal population wherever possible.
It is wilderness, but not natural or wild. It is barren and mostly degraded ecosystems, make up of acidic peat bogs. It used to almost completely covered in forests, but they were all felled, and the soil degraded. It looks nice, sure, but humans have ruined it and it's lost all its large predators and many of small species. Thankfully, there are some people trying to reforest areas of it, but its going to be slow and take YEARS.
I am glad they consulted farmers, because it’s the right , ethical process that should be done. However, I do feel we have been hearing farmers say they feel marginalized when any form of environmental change is needed. Farmers have been prioritized above others, including environmental advocates, for decades. If they want to be heard, they have to think about others, and understand the priorities of having land in the future, rather than just right now. The governments can work to ensure proper resources are dispersed to handle the changes to farmers’ lands and industry. Our ministers are wholly inadequate but we can at least push them to make adequate changes to support agricultural stakeholders and environmental needs.
Thanks for the great summary! I made my video on lynx while the study was still ongoing and didn't realise the report had come out! I'm looking forward to reading it in detail. This is the first time I've seen your channel in my recommendations so I'm looking forward to going through and watching your other videos :D
I hope by at least 2050 that all species in the uk (and that all native species come back to uk) are thriving and that most of the uk is as wild as possible and at least half of the uk is covered in woodland
As a Scot I would love to have Lynx back in the country, however I'm not a farmer and I feel it is only fair that farmers opinions on the subject carry more weight as they are more likely to be impacted by the reintroduction. Just leave the corrupt forestry commission out of it please
I know for certain there was at least one lynx in Fife, Scotland in the summer of 2013. I know that to be true because I saw it with my own eyes and I was with someone else who also so it. My son and I were driving to a jobsite before 0800 in July 2013. We had just left Kirkcaldy and were a couple of hundred yards from the Orrock Quarry when to the front left of the car I saw a sizeable ginger animal moving through the undergrowth towards the road at a speed that meant We were going to get to the same point at the same time. Since deer are endemic here I assumed that it was a deer and I was going to collide with it. I slammed on the brakes and came to a halt just as the animal emerged from the side of road. It immediately recoiled and sat pushing itself back from the road with its front legs. The animal and the car both came to a standstill with the animal at the front passenger window, which was open. We stared at each other for what felt like a few minutes but was probably ten to twenty seconds before it blinked, snorted and then walked around the back of the car, about twenty feet down the road, crossed to the middle then jumped to the other side then again into the bushes and disappeared. My son and I both looked at each other and said Lynx. Neither of us were in any doubt and still aren’t. He was a teenager but was really into his animals, we used to be family members of Edinburgh Zoo Society and Highland Wildlife Park so we were familiar to a point. One big point for us was that the Lynx at Edinburgh zoo were silvery. This one was ginger. Quiet bright ginger with a pure white chest and beard. Black tufts on ears and significantly bigger than the zoo animals. It was bigger than a Labrador but not as big as a Great Dane. Perhaps Newfoundland size but slinky. Between the face to face time and then it’s casual walk down the road, which I saw in the vehicle mirrors and my son saw by sticking his head out of window, we probably spent 45 seconds to a minute in it’s presence. There’s absolutely no doubt in either of our minds that we saw a Lynx. Afterwards, that night, I reported it to and was ignored by the police. I then did some internet searches and found the big cat/crypto zoo people. I told them. They said it wasn’t first sighting in Fife. Having done a little bit of casual reading on the subject I came to the conclusion that someone had probably smuggled it in from the continent and illegally released it. I don’t think it could have been a vestige of the pets released in the 70s after dangerous animal act. It would have been too old and would have to have been a breeding population which surely would have led to more than a couple of sightings. It appeared from the south between a couple of cottages two or three hundred yards back and the busy quarry about the same distance ahead. It disappeared to the north towards farmland with lots of hedges, gorse and coppices. I’ve since driven that route back and forth hundreds of times and never seen anything other than deer or buzzards.
Very nicely done. The complexities must be dealt with, but that shouldn't stop the effort from moving forward. The farmers who run herds of sheep are one of the most important groups of stake-holders and also one of the most knowedgable. I'm very curious about the use of guard dogs.
well the study found, people who said no to lynx, felt that guard dogs wouldn't work in a scottish setting, that they could more issues involving aggression towards other walkers given the right to roam etc
@@LeaveCurious, Thanks. I see that the complexities are even more numerous than I imagined. Still, talking with, and involving, all the interested parties seems like the right way to go. I appreciate your spin-free presentation.
if I recalled correctly, european countries have how-to videos for hikers to prepare themselves in the case of meeting a guardian dog and his flock. be interesting to see how that goes in uk.
The UK is one of the most overpopulated places in the world we have 66 million people here personally I think all big predators should be back like wolf and bears and I think people should go 😅
Nonsense comment, look at land population density in India Bangladesh and the Tiger..having worked in Hong Kong, UK feels like a rural village by comparison, but introduced Bear and Wolf would not work, the Lynx is perfect Apex predator however
@@hmalik5232 Yeah, well, and sheep if they can too. Is not like they are just going to feed of only one animal. They go for the easier prey, and chickens that cant fly are pretty easy to hunt...
I imagine a few livestock guardian dogs and a little bit more control and limiting on flocks would make pressures much better. Rotational grazing is a win-win for all these scenarios, better pasture and safer flock
just discovered this channel Love the content I feel like a key point is missed in this video Farmers receive subsidies - cash from the government (and formerly the EU) - without which the majority of farms would not be profitable. I feel like this is the root issue holding back rewilding and Lynx Reintroduction. We need to instead provide subsidies for rewilding land. Your thoughts?
Great video! What books on rewilding would you recommend? I've read 'Wilding' and are currently reading 'Wild Fell', both fantastic books on the topic but I'm curious if you have any you would suggest?
Great first books to read - I liked Feral by George Monbiot & Beyond Conservation by Peter Taylor is quite good. Been reading some books about rewilding gardens too by numerous British authors!
I've heard all of these arguments. But, if any rancher uses his ranch to leverage an expensive John Deere harvesting/feeding system west of the Nebraska feed lots, in the "dry"; then his odds of success are at best 50/50, even without the Lemhi pack fifteen minutes away by road. Dry ranches are not wrecked by wolves (or kitty cats), but by the mechanics of the video stock sale system.
I think the Lynx would be great for keeping the Deer population in check I doubt Britain is going to accept wolves. We're a lot more populated now than when they were last here. 🏴
We have the smaller bobcats (half the size of the European lynx) in the US and they do take deer, and the smaller domestic animals like sheep and goats. So the lynx should be able to take sheep with no problem. It will adjust its habits if an easier source of meat is available, rather than deer and hares.
The large landowners in the highlands will need to be bought out. They keep the castle and eighty acres; the rest is the public property of Scotland; a North and South unit.
I'm sorry to be disrespectful to the farmers but I care very little for a an industry on its way out which is kept afloat by subsidies, especially because there fears can be solved buy a fucking livestock guarding dog(which they don't want to pay for). I'm sure that every industry would want to have preferential treatment treatment.
Since livestock farming is on the decline, it’s important to show farmers what to do next. But I think it’s important that it should Not be lost. Change is happening & everyone can benefit from it.
The fact that the UK has no predators larger than foxes is really sad, and it’s funny to me that lynx are referred to as “large predators.” But hey, I can relate. In my area, they are beginning to consider reintroducing grizzly bears and I have to admit, I’m a little nervous about that idea.
If I was a local farmer i'd be pissed. We live in an area with numerous Mountain lions in Northern Canada. Perhaps next on the list would be some Grizzlies in your area? There always nice....
@@LeaveCurious... Wait, you don't have to contend with the Wolfes either? Tell me you at least have ticks & mosquitos. I would love to take a Hike through European Forest without a can of bear mace, or to have to look over my shoulder for a stalking cat. :p Bears I have had no problem with, for the most part when they see me "Black bears" they just turn the other way. I have never encountered a Grizzly on a hike, Hope I never do.
The simplest answer to farmers’ concerns is for them to make use of livestock guardian dogs, as is done successfully in many other countries. A lynx will not take on a big guardian dog. Livestock guardian dogs are used to deter coyotes, wolves, bears , and even mountain lions. They can certainly protect against lynx.
I've been watching all of your videos recently, I try to comment every time I can, but I also watch your videos as I do some other stuff, so I sometimes miss doing so. But here's my comment trying to help with algorithm c:
Yes puma spotted on a Welsh beach black panther spotted in South Yorkshire Foreign news black leopard spotted on trail cam and they have leopard reserves
@@LeaveCurious ok be prepared You Tube has people's personal stories. Cats have been seen by dog walkers on abandoned railway tracks at night. Scared stiff. Google probably has stories. There are a few new sightings. Google News.USA type sightings preparation needed.
I’m Scottish and I would LOVE to see Lynx reintroduced here. The only people complaining will be the sheep farmers. Let’s be honest, sheep aren’t even indigenous to Scotland, the Romans brought them here so what right do they have to complain? Lynx would be good for controlling deer numbers which are out of control at the moment, you can hardly find a tree under 15 years old because the deer have eaten them all. My concern would be that gamekeepers would deliberately poison Lynx as they frequently do to birds of prey here unfortunately. It’ll be interesting to see what happens, let’s get it done.
It just such a huge shift for their way of life and culture that’s been practiced for a very long time. Sheep can and should still be kept throughout Scotland, but not to such extents & more measures should be done to keep them safe from predators. There’s ways land owners can really benefit from rewilding, but it’s having that willingness to change
@@LeaveCurious That’s the issue, I expect they’re unwilling to change, sadly. I don’t think sheep are particularly profitable so they could really benefit from rewilding but they would need to change their mindset.
The new concept of adding guard alpacas or donkeys have greatly reduced predation of sheep and goats in so many places. The reintroduction of a few bobcats should not be an issue.
California, USA Native, sad that the California Grizzly will never come back, ever. 😢 People are greedy and stupid, like Thoreau said "Enjoy the land, but OWN it not"
Not only do i think lynx and wolfs should be brought back, i wanna see heards of triceratops flipping vehicles through open fields. And Ill go even further than that! I wanna hear how genetic engineers the world over are working together to compile the first viable dragon genome. So ya, im okay with lynx.
What about introducing the endangered Iberian Lynx instead? This species is a third smaller and feeds on small prey, almost exclusively rabbits. Feeding on rabbits means that it won't target sheep, pets, and it will be controlling rabbit. populations which will be good for farmers. People that are worried the larger lynx might be dangerous, would have no concerns for this smaller species. Also, as it's endangered, the UK could help increase its numbers outside Spain.
I always enjoy discussing the idea of introducing non-natives, but I'm not sure if they'll fully fill the role than a eurasian lynx could... something to research. Thanks Jason.
I strongly feel that it is a rediculous notion that Scotland is the only place suitable for Lynx. It's the first place people think of and the rational is that it's sparsely populated. It would seem that little thought has been given to the adaptability to other woodlands and pockets of small populations to other areas; specifically the south east of England. There are many areas where small numbers could thrive. If dispersed well at the introduction phases, opportunity for genetic diversity across their overall range would still be possible through migratory patterns for purpose of breeding. I like your points on the lack of consultation. A liaison body needs to be set up with steak-holder interests at their core phylosophy. Kielder, Dean, New Forest, Sussex Weald, much of Norfolk's new initiatives, Wales and Scotland have all got the potential to support very small populations. These are my thoughts. Time to start expanding our minds.
I guess Scotland typically comes up due to the low human density, but European evidence shows Lynx and people can co-exist at high densities. It’s certainly time to broaden our perspectives on what’s possible
@@LeaveCurious Absolutely. I love your channel. I watch the videos to give me hope and to enjoy seeing new projects. Any new rewinding or tree planting project big or small is a delight to witness 👍
I do have a question though - if Scotland was ‘the whole world’ - would they be more open to lynx reintroduction then? It seems a luxury to me to do this much soul searching about a missing piece of nature - because it can be so easily fixed in future from ‘somewhere else’. Definitely farmers and farming should be thoroughly considered, consulted and accommodated. We need to treat our farmers with respect and gratitude. It just seems like a huge luxury to me though - to be this cautious and ambivalent. If Scotland was the whole world - would Scottish people be content to simply see the lynx go extinct? Love and respect to all 💚
Ok I think you're saying this... If the last remaining life on earth resided in Scotland & we had the power to put the Lynx back, are you asking should we? I think in this scenario its a yes even more so that in the real world situation. Which is still a pretty strong yes. Farmers can thrive alongside a Lynx reintroduction, they just need to be shown how!
@@LeaveCurious oh yes! - I'm saying a very strong 'yes'! In the same way we wish for countries in Africa to protect lion and for tigers to remain in the wild, cougars on Vancouver Island, and wolves (where I live). I'm saying that we wish to have these animals in our world. We would mourn, collectively I think - as humans, if we lose them. At some level, even beyond their ecological benefit, we intrinsically value them. So yes - we need to find a way to live with them. So hence my point - if Scotland was all of the world, would Scottish people wish to have lynx in their world? If the answer is 'yes' then it's a no-brainer. Thanks for your video and work Leave Curious!
There were some mixed opinions on the use off guardian dogs - some feeling they could be problematic given Scotland's right to roam. They certainly are effective in Europe though.
@@LeaveCurious In my humble opinion its not all about the farming community, its about whats best for the earth, we are trying to repair the damage that was done generations ago, a fine example of rewilding is the reintroduction of the wolf at Yellowstone as just one excellent example of what can be acheived, farmers need to realise that its them and their forefathers that caused our eco system to be off balance in the first place, by exterminating certain predators that kept balance. We should be a forest but all we see from a plane green fields for miles n miles, deer are eating any new trees etc and we are not allowed to hunt them for food with permission etc, its a pain in the arse to live in uk, cant even wild camp its a joke run by clowns
@@curleex3838 Yellowstone is many, MANY times bigger than any national park or Rewilding area in Europe. And that attitude is exactly why so many people in rural areas living from agriculture view conservation with scepticism as best. You don't reason or win over people by telling them they're inherently bad or destroying our world. This makes you a jerk. If we want Rewilding to succeed we need pragmatic and ambitious action to inspire people and include them. That wrong and disrespectful obsession with blaming everything on farmers is annoying, disgruntling and it hurts "the cause". He made it abundantly clear, your attitude won't build any trust, won't contribute and won't help achieve anything. Everyone and everyone must be included in those initiatives
@@henry-thepizzaeater-morgan704 yeah but its true tho lol, you can pretend all you want but im no snowflake and the truth always hurts! Over the centuries farmers have grazed the land and killed all the predators off for their own gains 💷, they ARE a huge reason our country is mostly bare of trees so word it how you want but its still true. What your saying is yes we know but lets not bring it up and upset folks for what they have done lol, me on the other hand im a bit thicker skinned and i say it as it is but if u peeps get butt hurt then maybe they should see a shrink and tell him your all offended and you want the all offended police involved.! 😂 "Yes but we'll forget that bit..."
We have links in North Macedonia.they are national tresaure and are on our money as simbol. They are unbelivable shy animals. If where no termal cameras we will never know how many we have!
One thing I wonder is whether there's a reason to re-introduce an animal after it's been absent for so long? Other than just because we'd like it to happen? If it's for the sake of the ecosystem, when it's been hundreds of years, wouldn't things have changed so what was once native, is now foreign and no longer needed, possibly a direct or indirect danger to the now established wildlife or the new animal itself? Perhaps we should try to leave nature alone, where possible, and not interfere by removing or introducing species.
@@LeaveCurious Just seems a little unfair to always put these sorts of creatures in scotland when the rest of the uk gets zero benefit. We need something down south to hunt the muntjac and the chinese water deer that are eating all the tree saplings.
I'm so fascinated by the content but found it really distracting with the constant fiddling of the zoom ring on the camera every 15 seconds. I know it's such a petty little grievance (I know!) but it is so unnecessarily detracting from what is a really heartfelt and important message
It’s more about knowing you’re in an area where the Lynx is present. It just adds an element of excitement to being outdoors. Especially true in the UK. Keeping an eye out for signs, but also knowing that maybe, just maybe, you’ll see one!
Living in Perthshire near the Cairngorms I personally think that they are looking at the wrong Lynx and instead of the Eurasian Lynx they should look at the Red lynx or the Canadian Lynx both being quite a bit smaller and therefore preying on smaller animals.
@@yerauntiesellsavon8510 all lynx go after deer and can take them down no problem, they are opportunists so will probably go after the rabbits first as there are so many in the highlands and they are an invasive species albeit a very old one and they probably do more harm than the deer do.
Get a pack of herding dogs like herders have always done through out history and a donkey. They are dogs bred for herding. My dad is a rancher near El Paso, TX and he always has a blue heeler and australian shepherd and a donkey to keep the wild dogs away.
Well, I've seen Sami weep when seeing their reindeer killed by wolves, I've seen Scandinavian farmers full of stoic rage as their sheep and cattle were found dead and half eaten. I think you're naive.
What about introduction of the endangered Spanish lynx in Ireland, and wnswapping épuration lynxes in Scotland for the balkan lynx which numbers are the l'ouest of all eurasienne 6 diff species, mate?
An interesting read and nicely elaborated. However I’m not for Lynx coming back until our environment is more suitable to support them and our urban population have a better understanding of the environment and repercussions introductions can have. Yes people who are fanatics will go ahead and reintroduce animals with no respect to communities or the environmental impact. We have a population of 65 million and there is a need to feed this population of this size. People also don’t recognise we are becoming a poorer nation and importing food is costly. Re wilding projects are springing up every where which although not a bad thing seems to have no structured progress and they tend to be oasis’s which may not guarantee their longevity. If we had joined up thinking maybe we could have suitable areas for the reintroduction of the lynx. I know that in Latvia they have had problems in maintaining suitable levels of lynx to prevent rural community problematic interactions. In Canada a huge country with vast wilderness the lynx population rises and falls with the snow shoe hare populations. In GB there are easier alternative prey sources livestock and domestic animals. Even humans on the rare occasion have been attacked. What worries me is the control factor ,there is a backlog of introductions in various countries which has gone wrong. I am a hunter so that does predisposes me to a bias. Yes a reintroduction may suit large forest owners such as FC in reducing costs of rangers and contract stalkers as well as keep plantation damage % down. But equally it would affect other rural landowners. Where does it stop reintroductions wolves,bears and the like? How far back are we going to go in this? Also why can we recognise the need for Lynx but not that of wild boar which are deemed vermin and only as wild pigs? They have an ecological input as well as the ability to outstrip environments if not controlled. Any introduction has to have a control mechanism which does not get bogged down in red tape. Beavers are successful but also controversial in some damage they create (wrong animal wrong area). I enjoy your videos but feel far more needs to be done before we can establish bigger animals for reintroduction especially the education of urban communities that vote on sentimental whims and are easy propaganda targets to sway political opinion. Just a personal thought😊
So what happens to the already severily threatened Caipercaily, and scottish wild cat with another large predator that can climb trees , again you can not just rewild on an ideological basis
The study looked at the caipercaily and in Europe it found that the Lynx didn't affect its viable population. However, in a scottish setting that might be different.
Rob, your diction is so challenging😳! I was really interested in what you had to say, but your delivery is so garbled and rushed, I could barely understand a word🤔. I'm a native English speaker, but I would ask you to please please slow down and enunciate - then perhaps more people could understand your (seemingly) interesting commentary😊! Thank you.
Britain, like the rest of the human inhabited world, in in a process of slow desertification. People get used to it, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
I have to be honest: I dont like farmers (at least, the conceited ones). Have some broader view of the topic. Lynx aren't there in such a number that the would threaten the lifestock in any substantiual way
I think you demonstrated exactly the problem -- while you admit that there are big issues, you're dead set on moving forward so you can achieve your goal. That's what the farmers and shepherds have been dealing with for decades, and the it's always outsiders, the city folk, who think they know best. Time and time again, soft-handed academics ride in to talk about their grand plans... and cause no end of heartache for the people who have to live there and deal with the mess. Even as you were reading from that report, I got the sense that the government, et al, were saying "This is going to happen and you're just gonna have to deal with it. The Lynx doesn't attack sheep that are 200 yards from the edge of the woodline, so just keep your sheep that far away and you'll be fine." Yea, so easy! Maybe the authors of the study didn't mean to come across like that, but that's what it sounds like to someone who has had to deal with such things in the past. As you said yourself, there's only so much you can know without putting Lynx into the landscape and then watching to see what happens. Great. You're willing to take that step because it's your dream brought to life.... but are you willing to not? You aren't the one who has to clean up the mess. I'm reminded of when the voters in California decided it was inhumane to hunt mountain lions with packs of dogs, so they outlawed it. All those ignorant city folk thought it was just "mean" and wouldn't listen to those more experienced in the matter. And they didn't have to listen because they had millions of ignorant urban voters backing them up. Within days of the bill passing, a jogger was killed by a mountain lion. You spend decades demonizing rural people, farmers and shepherds, making them the butt of jokes, portraying them as ignorant and uncool, or stodgy old fools stuck in their ways and uneducated... then you ask for the support of thousands of urban people, folks from around the world who think your idea is cool, but don't have any real knowledge of what's happening on the ground, in the trenches. So when you show up to talk with the locals, they see that you have the full weight of the government and special interest groups backing you.... and what do they have? If they say no, will you just walk away? Or will you try to do some end run around them, like they did with the beavers? Will you give up your dream.... or are you just insisting that other people give up their's? In another comment I talked about the importance of considering the Second Order and Third Order effects of something. We've seen how this has caused us great harm in the past, but it's like we never learn that lesson. Stop and think about what you're asking. I realize that you're a fundamentalist and believe deeply in the mission, but you're suggesting the introduction of a predator to an area where you don't live. You promise that it'll bring in millions of pounds in tourist revenue, teasing the people with imagined wealth that you aren't going to actually deliver, and if that doesn't pan out.... you bear no responsibility for it. The people there, though, know that wealth or not, they will have to deal with the Lynx and everything bad that it might bring while you're in town sipping on your mocha latte and patting yourself on the back. You talk about helping the environment and the people, about how we're supposed to be working in unison, and I agree. However, you're not doing something that's relatively easy. You could be leading the charge to revitalize the interest in Hedgerows and their maintenance, for example. You could be demonstrating how people can use the resources from the hedgerows to make organic, all-natural spoons, baskets, fences, gates, bowls, and more. You could talk for hours about how the Hedgerows are an intrinsic part of the local nature and the local heritage, and how bringing them back would benefit the local people as well as cut down on the amount of plastic that ends up in the landfills. And all of that would be perfectly true and perfectly safe for them. It would give the kids something to do, a skill to learn, and an avenue for employment. Beautiful hedgerows would add to the picturesque scenery, bringing tourists in to marvel at the beauty, while also providing shelter and food for countless animals. While the Lynx is cool and trendy and all that, the Tradition and Culture of the hedgerows is something that is easy for people to relate to and it's safe. They wouldn't fight you one bit if you came in with a plan to rebuild that part of the Tradition and Culture that had been lost as a Second Order effect of things thought up by the urbanites before you. You want to build goodwill? Start small and be willing to give a little. Help the people in a way that actually helps the people rather than helps you and your dream. The locals can see that you're dead set on reintroducing the Lynx and they are the ones with their backs to the wall. They can see that you're deeply committed to this plan and aren't going to stop campaigning for it. They don't have a voice in this, and they know it. Or, better to say that you're reaching millions when they can only reach the local town hall. They've seen this all happen before, as you noted in your video, and they know how it will pan out. The Lynx is going to be re-introduced either legally or illegally, just like the beaver, and all they can do is not much at all. This is why I talk about the Second Order and Third Order effects so much. Your dream would be a lot easier if people before you hadn't strong-armed and betrayed the people because they were so absolutely sure they were right. Your predecessors were fundamentalists, too. They were dead certain their way was the best way, and they were willing to see it happen no matter what they had to do. They didn't care about the Second Order effects and how they're behavior made enemies future generations would have to deal with. Long-winded, I know, but it's a subject I'm passionate about. I hope this finds you well.
Hey thanks for the comment, you've conveyed your message quite well. This is the kind of discussion I want from these videos. Although you aren't completely respectful, that's expected on topics like this! While I believe the Lynx should be here and we could make it work, with time, work and an open approach - I am not a fundamentalist. A single thought process is never best. It is and should never be viewed as 'us v them'. I do however subscribe to making the UK a better place for all life. Why bring conflict into it? It's unproductive and unreasonable. Perhaps relationships have been damaged in the past, but should that stop us now from working together? Learn from the past, but please do not condemn those now to do it. You're right, it is difficult, it's not easy bringing a species of Lynx back to the UK, but does this mean that we shouldn't try? The many benefits that come from a Lynx reintroduction are very real. It's happening in Europe. But it takes a willingness and togetherness from all parties. While a Lynx reintroduction is a decent topic for a RU-vid video, it would also be an incredible symbol of the UK's commitment to nature. Something which feels increasingly non-existent. You're spot on, hedgerows and sympathetic rewilding across our landscapes is something that needs just as much attention. I appreciate you're view, but don't be part of the problems that halts the progression of our country.
@@LeaveCurious I couldn't have asked for a better response to illustrate the issue I was trying to get at with my overly-long comment. You say you're not a fundamentalist, but did you notice how you instantly put the negatives onto me? I simply bring up a different viewpoint and you immediately launch into attack mode. What does it mean that I wasn't "completely respectful"? How could anyone be that when they don't even know what it means, what goals need to be met? Who can ever be "completely" anything? And why would you think my comment wasn't entirely respectful? I used no vulgarity and never disparaged anyone. What more could be asked? You want to make "the Uk a better place for all life".... but by whose definition? Are you the arbiter of what is and isn't "better"? What if you're wrong? Conflict is a part of life, some might even say a fundamental part, and it's through conflict that we can learn and grow. Hardly "unproductive" or "unreasonable" unless you mean that it gets in the way of you achieving what you want. If relationships were damaged in the past, as you illustrated in the video, shouldn't you also learn from it rather than not? I offer a different viewpoint and your knee-jerk reaction seems to be to claim I'm "condemning" folks that are trying something new. Can you not look at it from another perspective? Maybe see how the farmers and ranchers are interpreting you and the millions supporting you? Contrary to what you want to believe, the benefits of the lynx reintroduction are not as real as they might seem. What is happening in Europe doesn't matter to the farmers and shepherds you're asking to take on the burden. That's "over the hill and far away" as the wise man once said. To the locals, you're creating a very real issue and only vague promises of intangible benefits somewhere down the line. The benefits you speak of are things that you cannot guarantee and bear no responsibility for -- but the locals will bear responsibility for all the problems that come from having predators in their back yards. While you're off in London or Cairo on your next adventure, they are stuck on the farm dealing with the ramifications. See how that could be a sticking point for them? From what I've gathered from your video and your kind reply to my post, you talk about "willingness and togetherness from all parties", but it's readily apparent that you only mean that you get your way and the Lynx are re-introduced. That's why I used the term 'fundamentalist'. You're dead certain you're right. You're dead certain this idea is the best idea. Anyone with a contrary thought is being unproductive and unreasonable, part of the problem. You even said that in closing, remember? You "appreciate" my view, but see me as "part of the problems that halts the progression". In other words, your way is the right way and anyone who disagrees is a problem. That's the very definition of a fundamentalist. Every single negative word in your reply referred to me and/or my thoughts on the issue. You can't be wrong. You can't be in err. Your way is the right way, the best way, the only way, and it will be made to happen one way or another. And that's fine by me. As long as we're all being honest, I'm okay with it. But I would ask, where's the "togetherness" in that? Where's the "willingness" to get along with folks? I brought up the Hedgerows because it's a very good way to start slowly and build up that trust you talk so much about. It's something that accomplishes the goals you claim to be working towards, and does it in a way that the locals can get behind. It's also a very good example, as I pointed out, of how there are many unintended consequences to even the best intentions. You can bet the people marketing barbed-wire fencing, or lobbying for "mandatory minimum wages" way back in the day didn't think about the Second Order and Third Order effects of those things. They were devout believers in their cause and fought tirelessly to bring their dreams to life. And what was the result of such things? How many cottage industries were shut down because the people could no longer afford to do them? What was the fallout from that? And like now, it was more often than not people climbing down from their ivory towers who led the charge.... but had no responsibility for the damage caused. I'm not saying that you're wrong to want to re-introduce the Lynx. We've got pretty much every kind of predator you could ask for around here. I know full well what it's like to deal with them as well as what they have meant for the wild lands. Nothing gets your heart racing quite like being alone on the top of a hill, miles from anywhere, and seeing a black bear's paw print right between your feet! There's good and bad to everything, but remember that you're not the one who will have to pay that bill when it comes due. Can you honestly say you understand that? Can you empathize with the locals? They will have to live there. You will be off living in your flat in town, planning your next road trip, while they're filing the paperwork to get reimbursed for the lamb that was killed by the Lynx you helped re-introduce. You don't bear a single bit of responsibility for the consequences of your actions. The locals will have to bear all of that - and all you can do is tell them they're aren't "completely respectful" and "unproductive" and "unreasonable". 😉
It’s not like they are reintroducing wolves or Mountain lions. In the US the number one animal killer of Humans is the White Tail Deer Via Auto encounters. Millions in damages every year. We still have wild bear, coyotes and cougars bob cats an lynxes. The wolves are the only ones the farmers suffer from. They are here to stay. But most states allow farmers to kill nuisance animals. We have copperheads and rattlers alligator. Another dangerous animal is hogs.
@@philipbutler6608 And? Did you notice how they talk about the rising rates of roe and sitka deer as one of the motivators behind the reintroduction of the lynx.... but not increasing the hunting of deer? So the lynx can eat the deer, but not the local humans? Even you admit that there is a problem and farmers/ranchers have to then go out of their way to kill "nuisance" animals. That's more time and aggravation for the people, yet where are the millions in tourist revenue that come in to the localities like the video suggests? Do those ranchers get a nice big paycheck every year to compensate them for their time and aggravation? And all that is really beside the point. I was discussing the problem with how the locals don't get any say because they are the ones being pressure by huge international movements, like this. Notice how you're talking about changing the lives of folks in an area that you don't live? You won't have to suffer for the decisions you help implement. Is it really so hard to understand the position of the local people?
@@threeriversforge1997 My dog and me were startled by a Bobcat under a bush when he was looking to pee. It popped a big hiss and ran. I have seen them walk across a pedestrian bridge next to a family with children. I have seen a mother with cubs on the trail being passed by people on bikes. I am 65 and never heard of a bobcat or lynx, we have both, attacking humans. I have heard of cougars, bear and deer, moose and elk attacking people among others. Farmers do shoot wolves, cougars and other predators. I myself have trapped and shot beaver. Also trapped a opossum that killed my duck in the city. Predators keep prey from overgrazing by pressuring them too move it improves habitat for upland game birds and pushes deer into browsing thickets and trees. Browsing and grazing are two different things. It may actually improve pastures for sheep and cattle too. Watch Cog Hill Farms, Arms Family Farms, Hidden Heights Farms Cross Timber Bison, on RU-vid they all have livestock Guardians. Dogs and Donkeys are both used. Although a donkey will kill a dog and coyotes. They live from pups outside with the livestock and will protect both babies and adult animals from predators.
