New Study: Can You Build Muscle at Maintenance | Educational Video | Biolayne 

A lot of people just can't come to grips with the fact that good results take a lot of time to arrive. Prolonged bulks are insanely effective, I myself have gone from 155 lbs to 225 lbs in a little over 4 years, the strength and size gains have been unreal. On a month to month average, that's less than 1.5 lbs a month, which is almost unnoticeable unless you track your weight closely. The time is arriving soon for me to do my first cut, and I dont plan to lose more than 1lb/week.

This reminds me of the protein intake conversation, where 1g/lbs or 2.2g/kg was the big thing and now we're seeing 1.4-1.6g/kg has similar or equal results. I think there's a trend right now showing the body kind of wants us to succeed and really it has never been as complicated as we would've liked to think. Side note: would love to see you do a workout with Renaissance Periodization!

I just did my first cut after about 5 months of working out. I actually gained 1 rep each time I worked the muscle group during that time. I thought I would have lost strength and went down but consistently gained the 1 rep. Then when I got off my cut, I am gaining 2 extra reps each workout. I made sure to eat a lot of protein, at least 1 gram a lbs of body weight.

Couldn’t agree more. On top of that we are fed fairytales on social media of full-time fitness athletes who are usually enhanced) promoting some kind of product that is supposed to transform your body in six weeks.

If you chase 2 rabbits, you'll probably catch none, that line literally just changed my life

Anecdotally, I’ve trained at maintenance for years. I’ve gained strength and lean muscle

My best guess about energy balance comes from my Polar V2 watch and every now and then attempting to count what gets stuffed into my mouth (surprisingly close in my case). Metrology background hints me that at best the repeatability can be +/- 5 %. Uncertainty is much more loose. Adding 5% energy surplus short term (like a month) for regular people is delusion. Over a long period, say half a year, sure - you can statistically dial it in. A lean person's strength def decreases in deficit. Personally getting 5 % reduction in weight reduces absolute str about the same amount. The effect is similar to not taking creatine.

So Coach Greg has kinda been right all along. Nice!

If you chase one rabbit you normally catch none Rabbits are hard to catch

Get to 10% bodyfat and eat at maintenance for 6-12 months and if you haven't build muscle eat 5% surplus for 6 months

Maingain more than last time!

No sound

Can you please do a What the Fitness on RU-vidr Goatis?

It’s normal to gain 3.2 lb in a year I weight training four to five day week Some time just three days per week

Mentzer was right again

10:21 hard disagree exercises is still good for you, you need it

Why did you go on and on about why there were so few participants? Who cares. It's the number of participants that makes it a poor study ie sample size.. not the difficuly of finding participants

❤❤❤

Algorithm - 4.

I learned that the hard way. Back in the 70s and 80s, we used to bulk up waaay too much in the off season. I would go from 230-250 lbs and cut to 198 on stage. Now at 64, I have a lot of loose skin. Beyond that, it just wasn't healthy; my triglycerides would get into the high 300s, and it's really hard on the body and psyche to diet that hard.

Let’s be honest with ourselves here people… the vast majority of us shouldn’t be in a surplus

It's crazy how complicated muscle building is. I know some boys who work on a farm and they're buff and lean.. don't eat for muscle. don't do anything special. Just functional adaptive muscle built over throwing hay eating whatever mama cooked that day lol.

I love that you acknowledge previously teaching debunked methods as you gained new knowledge. This is what it’s all about, real knowledge evolves. It is not static. I’ve been following you for a while, thanks for being a harbinger of truth in the fitness space 💪🏾

Muscle = longevity = ability to soak up higher calories (bigger meals, more food, glucose, insulin) with no adverse effects. Just keep the deficits and surpluses to a minimum and take your time. You dont want to go into old age with no muscle and high body fat % on a stack of pills and easy to break bones.

In my opinion, it's impossible to equate all the other variables that have an impact on performance. You may have consumed 5% more calories (good luck with being that precise), but your sleep was much better or much worse that day, you weren't fully focused during the descent of the movement, or even same days you feel less strong without explanation, or you have accumulated to much fatigue, or you have decreased your volume recently and you have detrained. It's impossible to track to that level.

I actually want to be a participant in a study!! Do you have any suggestions on how to participate/find studies looking for people Layne? Thanks for the video btw!🙏🏼🙌🏼👏🏼

Of course Dr. Norton had to be in a caloric surplus to go from 140 to 210 pounds. Most of us who are no longer teenagers are not looking to put on 70 lbs. So it will be interesting to see how the research shakes out for those who are looking to be more lean but not gain weight. In the past I managed to (slowly) gain muscle and lose fat without changing body weight, but it took a while! Hoping I can do the same now, because the cutting never seems to get easier.

Really intersting and perfect timing as I was on the fence of either staying on maintenance, switching to a calorie surplus to gain, or opt for reverse dieting. Many thanks for sharing Layne.

*Great thought process* You can't gain 30lbs of muscle by maintaining. With that said, in theory you could gain muscle at maintenance since you can maintain a positive MPS balance. But as you said, the best natural bodybuilders didn't recomp their way there.

I've been doing body recomposition for the last two and a half years. I'm now seventy years old. I started at 89 kilos (aprox.) and a lot of fat and not very much muscle. Things have changed; 74 kilos, and rather muscular for my age (175 cm of height). I do weight training (not very heavy) six days a week, for a bit over one hour and a half each day. All this is necessary to state the context for my question (in the last line) I've been tracking calories and proteins with great accuracy during all this time, with less than once or twice a month of calories estimation instead of precise measurement (because of not eating at home). And now, just now, I could assert with some confidence (and a lot of graphs) that my maintenance intake is around 2450 kilocalories per day, at about 2 grams of protein for kilo of weight. So, how can you determine what are your maintenance needs? I mean, not you specifically, nor me; I mean the average watcher.

I think I'd be ok with the downsides of being a study subject if I got to train with Eric Helms.

I'm currently doing OMAD 2300cal max. Mike Mentzer H.I.T. heavy duty training is fantastic for natty's like myself.

Instead of "muscle gaining phases" (usually done as bulks) followed by "fat loss phases" (usually known as cuts), I'd do a "lean bulk" followed by a "recomp."

For myself after years of lifting, I tested and realised that maintenance after a cut for 3-4 months will give me good gains. Then I’d plateau and had to increase to a surplus of 100 - 150 cals.. this little change would boost my strength for like three weeks and muscle would grow even more. But as soon as I add 100 more, though there was strength and muscle gain, fat gain came along forcing a cut period. I would say for my body at least: Surplus is needed only during plateaus… the challenge is to find new maintenance when old maintenance turns into deficit.

What ive found over the years. When aiming for maintenance, I'll usually end up in a very slight surplus. This tends to be where notice the best improvements.

Video is extremely quiet

H - Hypertrophy E - Endurance L - Longevity M - Madd S- Scientist

Food labels can be wrong by 20%. Also, all we need is 5% surplus. 🤔 Reality often crashes with theory

I am at my ideal weight right now @ 15% body fat. Is it possible for me to lower my body fat to 12% without losing weight? Anyone who have any idea?

10-14 days ?? 5% surplus got stronger than 15% surplus. ..... this is not a study.

If anyone can share feedback to assist Me on improving body composition, I would greatly appreciate it. I am 47 yrs old, 5’ 7” and started weight training at 185 lbs two months ago. I started in a decent calorie deficit of 500 calories (with 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight) from my 2,000 maintenance which initially resulted in weight loss, while affecting muscle gains. Bumped up 200 calories (1,700 calories) which resulted in better gains physically, while moving the scale slightly, to my current weight of 178 lbs. I’ve noticed a large transformation in strength and muscle definition, while maintaining the same weight. How come the scale is staying the same? Should I eat at maintenance to build muscle then eat in a calorie deficit later on to lose weight? How can I best approach body recomposition?

I've done 3 bulks so far, but the last two were really too short, just 2 or 3 months each, because (A) I wasn't super lean at the start, and (B) I didn't even track calories, and I gained weight fast - so I just got fat too quickly and felt like cutting again. At least my cuts have been quick and efficient. But this next time, I'm gonna cut to a more shredded state, and then track my calories on the next bulk to make it a lot longer and more gradual. Might try a real small surplus like 5-10%, so I can enjoy my lean physique for a long time while still having potential for some gains.

Technically 10 percent body fat at 210 isn’t the same as 140. Not trying to be smart but we have more fat. So if we get technical if we are 150 and ten percent body at 210 we should be 7 ish. No math involved just a thought. Anyway obviously you gained the majority of muscle in a bulk so your cutting phase would be less so it works It would be nice just to gain muscle and fat doesn’t move 😂😂

I think it’s important for us to know that we can “run out” of body fat to lose after we “recomp” at a given weight for long enough. Then our only way to gain lean mass is to gain weight overall.

So the science is backing up Greg doucette we only need a small surplus close to maintenance to build muscle for normal lifters maingain does work⭕️💪🏻

Can't lie very stupid study really, exercise science "research" is so low standard man.

I dunno man.....i was eating in deficit for 15 years cus cba. Eating more now, gaining at a steady rate, gym sessions improving weekly. Feels like im on something

Please keep us informed on new research on this, Layne. This is a really important topic, because if surplus is indeed unnecessary, it would allow us to avoid fat gain through unnecessary surplus (also cheaper and easier to not have to eat more food than necessary).

500kcal surplus a day are like 2kg a week and thats like 22kg in a year, not so nice gaining 16-18kg fat and 4-6kg muscle xD

Well wouldn’t the lack of free testosterone in a woman make the lack of calories more significant in muscle loss? And if a they are in a 1000 calorie deficit wouldn’t that mean they are pretty much eating between 500 and 800 calories per day

Calorie intake surplus does not equal calorie absorption surplus. If you shit a lot more when you eat more then you are wasting all you add. Id say reach a body fat % target, do the workouts and eat enough to retain the body fat target so your body does not use the workout to burn fat and just focuses on muscle building, but also not add additional body fat that it will compromise your sleep and recovery

Why you breathing so hard? LOL Also, I dont understand using women for these studies.

I can hear Greg Doucette screaming: No! Maingain!

tbh a study would need like 100ppl in each group, the individual genetic factor are too big

20% maximum surplus,surplus is better than maintenance.

Layne, do you think the Cortisol to DHEA-S ratio is a potential detrimental impairment of muscle building?

if you have hight body fat and if youre on a calorie deficit diet can you build muslcle because excess fat can be used as energy source?

wish it was easier to use advanced lifters for these studies. feel like pretty much anything will work different amounts for people in groups like these

What if I’m gay

There he is. Gains is calling.

Almost all studies dealing with exercise sciences are at the bare minimum with sample size, also genetics are never taken into account. A study showed thar exercise results are something like 80% determined by genetics. There are a million confounders, like sleep, stress levels, blood markers, etc. I do agree with this study though. I do think you need to go through a time where you eat a surplus but not a large surplus. I think people naturally are basically in surplus.

Are there any studies that look at fasting as a way to do overall calorie control while otherwise eating in a surplus to gain muscle? I'm not very good at tracking, out of laziness, but what I mostly do is eat in a slight surplus through the week, but every week or two I do a 24 or 36 hour fast. It seems to work really well so far. As an example, if you are eating 2000 calories a day. Over a 7 day period you eat 14000 calories. If you fast one day that would drop 2000 calories, but if you eat 14000 over the other 6 days you can eat a shade over 2300 a day for the other 6 days for building. You could even shoot for about 2150 on the 6 days so that you overall are in a deficit but are building lean tissue the vast majority of the time. I haven't seen any studies that attempt something like this protocol for overall muscle gain and fat loss. It seems to be working for me though.

Fork tea I'll go wit ham

I'm curious as to why women that gained muscle (lean mass) still had a reduced BMR; I thought that was determined by lean body mass?

Be in a nutrient surplus, get your sleep, you’ll grow. Look for the best foods you can afford. Quality is key

I mean, by definition you have to a be in a surplus of some kind to gain weight at the same BF%, you starting at 140 and getting 210 would've been impossible without some sort of a surplus. The real question is how much of a surplus is ideal and even for how long should it be ran before dieting which we probably can never get a definitive answer for, as well as how which BF% you're starting at plays into this. If you got fully defined abs and a lot of leg vascularity a surplus is obviously more useful than someone with even just a flat stomach but mild muscle definition and separation.

In a surplus u just get more nutrients overall so that could lead to more gains. I believe as long as u eat over maintenance, u will build muscle. However, going maintenance is difficult because some days u eat over and some days less. You really can’t tell. That’s why bulking with around 300calories plus just kinda ensures that your always over maintenance. What do u think?

Like Mike Mentzer said: 257 calories in surplus is sufficient. That man makes more and more sense for each day and each study published!

Can you really accurately measure your calories to that level of precision? It's not like you know the exact value of your maintenance calories.

Way I see it, if you're progressing in your lifts, adaptations are occurring and you're growing. Once you plateau in most of your lifts, add a slight calorie deficit and go from there.

This is a great study and very encouraging for us older physique competitors. Thanks to Layne for bringing this forward!

Doucette gon' screech screech all over thus

Ive listened to some podcasts in the past with a couple natural bodybuilders talking about bulking and cutting phases. They stressed the importance of keeping the surplus/deficit fairly low (5-10%), and to make yhose phases 6-12 months. Not the 6-12 weeks that most programs say. I typically do 18-24 week long phases, and that's when I've had the most success.

Really needed to hear this. Loads of value as always. I defo need to measure my body fat percentage, cus the weight scale is only telling me half the picture. Was debating on staying on this cut, cus I'm still hitting PR's and lost 15lb of fat or whether to just go into a bull now. I like the idea of shorter phases and the fact it could just be a 5% surplus as a minimum.

At what part of the video does he get to the point?

Just for Al Gore’s Rhythm

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Chasing only one rabbit! 🐇

55, 165 lbs Been lifting for 6 months. My muscles feel larger and more solid when flexed. I eat two to three meals a day of red meat, bacon and eggs.

Not only is it self evident what he's saying, but I know I've built plenty of muscle in deficits while single digit. And I've always been underwhelmed when going in a bulk with strength gained.. so per usual, moderation is best.

Good post appreciate it

you need a better mic my guy

Yeah its anecdotal but ive lost weight since start of the year but built muscle

I’m really stuck on what to do. I’ve lost 130 pounds in 2 years (I’ve switched to recomp the past 6 months and have gained a lot of muscle) and am nearing my weight goal of 165, but I’ve been stuck at around 170 for the past month or so. Idk if I should just go to maintenance now and forget about trying to lose 5 more pounds and just try to gain muscle or should I try to recalculate my maintenance since it probably went down and I’m maybe not in a deficit anymore. Any help would be appreciated

For the algorithm

Yes and No

Two weeks is way yoo short for this kind of study, I would say 3 months would be a reasonable minimum duration

Layne seems out of breath

Uhm, if you're building then you are, by definition, not in maintenance.... you've stopped maintaining and are gaining.

For the algorithm

1% body weight gain per month, no more than 16% body fat, no more than 8- 9 months. No more than 300 kcal surplus These more or less are how my bulks go.

So much quality information, I'm so glad to have found your channel. Thanks for sharing!

6:46 Layne, you really gained 70 pounds of lean mass?! I thought for most people, you can only gain like 1/2 of that amount naturally? I'm not an expert and I'm not trying to be a hater or critic. I just never heard of that-so much mass gained!

What is maintenance? If you put 8kg of muscle on and 2kg of fat and you are 20% bodyfat, that is maintenance, isn't it? Like you have maintained your bodyfat levels.

I screwed my "bulk" up this summer. I slacked in the gym (cut my volume bc it was summer) and ate in a slight calorie surplus. Dexa scan showed I gained 10 lbs of fat and only like .8 or .9 of lean mass. So here I am back in a deficit trying to lose that extra fat, and increasing my volume in the gym. It's a marathon not a sprint, right?

I think there is a maintenance and maintenance. Let's consider two people, same calories, nutritious diet, same protein, same training. One eats 2500kcal every day, the secon eats 2300 few days and then 2700kcal other days, a erage 2500kcal. Both maintain the same weight long term, but the second person is doing mini bulking/cutting phases, so it is not exactly the same. To me this is an indication that "intuitive eating" can work for recomp. Eat nutritious food, watch your weight and keep it +-1kg around your target. If you are getting to the higher end, just reduce the food a bit, add if you are at low. Reduced stress from not tracking will give 1% less bodyfat as a bonus on top.

That was helpful - thanks for the video!

The secret everyone needs to hear starts at 8:41 Layne lays it down bruh!

Guys, it only applies if you are around 20% bf. Otherwise you would see a way more progress being in a surplus. During a 3 month bulk I have gained more muscle mass than in a year of maintaining

I’m coming to this subject as a PhD animal nutritionist. Knowing your true maintenance energy requirement with a high degree of accuracy is difficult with the information the average person has available. Even with animals, where we have a lot more control over diet compliance, food composition, genetic variation and activity, there is a of variation in maintenance estimates. Food databases are also made up of averages from highly variable (and often very little) data and may or may not be representative of what you are actually eating. So, saying you are truly eating at maintenance or a 5% or 15% surplus is a very rough approximation, especially considering that we never directly measure the energy or nutrients content of the food involved in any of these trials. Furthermore, by definition, you will not increase muscle unless energy and nutrients are consumed in excess of maintenance. If you increase mass, you are, by definition, eating above maintenance.