New Terminal-Block to connect BMS and Balancers to the battery. Easy, clean and versatile! 

It's a fetish! Velcro and split loom 😂

You've never had to re-cable a network rack with what seems like 8 million zip ties. 😅

When i saw the velcro straps in a 25m roll, and how they were used by devops/network people at FOSDEM, i was immediately in love. I am now on my second roll myself, and it made for a nice christmas present for quite a few people in my family. I doubt that any one of them has used them as religiously as i have though.

Hahaha, hence I was not satisfied with the black wires as they have different lengths now. I have to redo some of them otherwise this feeling does not come back.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia we, your people, understand completely.

Thanks a lot!

Thank you very much!

Thanks.

Thanks 😉

Thanks Paul. I'm trying my best. I'm trying different products and see which work and which don't.

​@@OffGridGarageAustralia What I didn't like was having the cables go in from the top rather than from the side. I followed your link and looked around at related articles. I found Wago-type quick connectors for din rail, all colors and combinations, straight, dual and tripple. Some with a slot for standard plint markings.

Thank you. Me and nothing to do? 😁 That has never happend and probably won't ever.

Get some Velcro 😁

Thank you! Cheers!

You are most welcome

Sometimes the simple things in live.

Thank you.

Yes, if a wire isn't a stranded type.

Yeah, video is coming soon...

Thanks!

Great, it will look neat. You can extend the balance leads as you need them, no problem. In the old battery, I had to shorten some and extended others.

That's what i've learned. When Springclamps are used, u insert just the bare wire, Screw Clamps and u have to use ferrules.

But does it not just put pressure on the point where it clamps the cable? Or is the clamp as long as the whole length of the terminal?

Hi Andy There would be a pinch point but the strength of the terminal isn't strong enough that the wire would be pinched off, the pinch point would also minimally carve into the loose strands breaking an oxide layer if present. And as you already discovered, inserting the wires is a lot easier if you open the clamp by pressing the orange release tab on the terminal

we allways use ferruls on multi stranded wire. there were som problems on oil rigs etc in the early days, but when they checked the installers they were always using cheap crimping tools that where not designed for ferrul's. Ferruls are still used becus of the higher risk of a lose strand potentially shorting something out, and a better conformation that they are properly seated. i have never had any problems with ferrul's but fixed plenty of installations where they wernt used.

@@EkeDeke even in clamp terminals? or screw terminals, with screw terminals you are completely right to use ferrules. Maybe for other brands there are different recommendations but for wago terminals the advice from the reps is not to use ferrules

Let's see how we go. My understanding is the centre hole is just for measurement to get access to the busbar?

These ones are really nice.

Thanks for your generous donation again, Sree. Much appreciated!

Willcommem, mein Bruner.

Yes, but the cable from the fuse holders to the terminals would be unprotected. That was my main reason to connect the fuses to the busbars directly.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Ok. I see, as the leads were pretty short and protected inside a cabinet, personally I'd not be overly concerned. In 480/600V and even 5KV switchgear it's common to run unfused from a main buss to a control or potential transformer several feet, the convention being that short or ground fault from the main buss to a fused point if properly installed and protected in a closed cabinet the chances of a short are remote at best and if there were to be a short the enclosure would contain a resulting fire or corona. With a battery bank it's a bit different as you have the cells in the same enclosure but personally I'd be ok with a few feet of lead cable and my 1st concern would be for BMS protection, and second short circuit.

Moin Ingo!

Thanks for sharing. How else would you unplug the BMS if not disconnecting the balance leads first? These exposed parts of the connector are very hard to reach. I wonder how you managed to do that 🤷‍♂️ I always wanted to connect the BMS to my system as well but the longer I think about the less I think there is a benefit of doing it. What would be the benefit apart from having access to the cell voltages maybe? Sure you can disconnect the load if on cell gets low but does the load (inverter) does not do this anyway? The same for charging, if one cell gets high, the BMS disconnects the charger... why report these numbers and have the solar charger disconnect in such a case?

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I don't know how the connector managed to brush the pins like that either, it sort of blew my mind 🤯and was really agitating, especially since it took like a month to get the BMS from China at the time. Since then I make sure to unplug them straight out and while still gripping the connector put it in a little plastic (pensil?) case I found and made a rounded notch for the wire bundle - so it can't possibly touch anything else. I've noticed a couple of things: Occasionally the temperature in my garage will be lower than the usual ~18C from a cloudy day, and then the next day will be sunny with cool panels and so it will end up being a few times my battery reaches 100% SoC, but I notice over 90% or so at lower temperature my cell voltages will diverge enough to cause a BMS fault, so if there were BMS communication then it could indicate to lower the charging current to properly top the battery (I suppose I could get a 5A or 10A balancer instead of the 2A I have now, the problem is all the balancing seems to need to take place at high SoC at lower temps, otherwise the balance is fine). This is specific to the Deye inverter that I'm using, but when using only voltages for the battery programming it seems to also favor the lead-acid charge to full after discharge cycle. It is a hybrid inverter working in combination with grid in a zero-export mode, and it doesn't seem to pull from battery unless it thinks it has reached full charge during the day. Everyone else I know is using it with a compatible BMS communicating with it, and it seems to pull/push power at any SoC with those. I'm also looking at the Seplos BMS's, they support almost every BMS protocol and will work with almost every inverter.

I may do a give-away at some stage...😉

Thanks William. I'll see how I go. The problem should not come back now that everything is oxide free and has good contact.

How can I possibly make a short with my ring though?

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I did it many years ago working on a car, and using a screwdriver that had the metal shaft of the screw driver go right through the handle, (was designed so it could be hit with a hammer and not hurt the plastic handle), and that was touching my wedding ring on the palm side of my hand, while I accidentally touched the live 12v +ve terminal of the horn.The ring heated up almost instantly, and ring barked my finger! Very painful for weeks!

That method would be highly inaccurate. The tester I showed at the beginning is using the standard 1kHz signal to measure resistance. It's not a typical ohm meter.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia You used the TR1035 to measure the resistance of the busbars? Does it work despite it not being a battery? So it acts as a milliohm meter as well? I was wondering also before buying one if it could be helpful to check buss bar connections

I have the same Bms. I believe the minimum is 5v. I started mine with a 9v battery as with a 3s 18650 pack as well. Don't know the max voltage to start.

That's a good tip from both of you. I didn't think about a 9V battery...

The box will be closed once finished with no airflow from the external, so dust should not be an issue.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia sometimes it is simpler to do the job first time .. i am only giving u experience in electrical contacts for chipset comunications .. telstra NBN and all others smoother to stop long term revisits and trouble shooting .. but .. it is only s possability .. tim e shall tell ... lol... but you have a wonderful setup .. just advice .. smiles ..

@@OffGridGarageAustralia chukles ... last time to sell u ... i am not shilliing the stuff becase i have any vested in terest ...lol Audio Connections NO-OX-ID A-Special works absolute wonders on audio connections, especially on those pesky RCA connectors that tend to corrode on the inner surfaces of the ground shell, 1/4 phone and even USB connectors. Tinning stranded wires destined for mechanical compression-type connectors defeats the purpose of the mechanical compression. When you insert a set of bare copper wires that are clean and protected with stuff like NO-OX-ID into a speaker thread-type compression connector, the resultant force of the compression on all the strands is what makes a good connection. Telephones Telephone companies have been using NO-OX-ID for seventy years. I have seen fifty-year-old NO-OX-ID on connectors that I've disassembled and the stuff is still goopy and the connections are still bright and shiny as the day they were made. A quote from a Bell Systems manual on making a connection: "The mating surfaces of the connection shall be burnished to a bright metallic finish and coated with a thin layer of NO-OX-ID anticorrosion paste to preserve continuity indefinitely." Switchgear One public utility states on its purchase orders: "This material is used in making aluminum to aluminum connections on outdoor High-Voltage Switchgear. PSO has tested dozens of joint compounds and none are equal to the Sanchem NO-OX-ID. Please procure this brand!" Grounding NO-OX-ID is a great product, a must, for any grounding application. Circuit Breakers One major engineering company recommends the use of NO-OX-ID on Track & Positioning pins on 480 volt drawout breakers (Circuit Breakers). AF and RF Connectors Review from an Electronics AF and RF engineer - "Electronics, both AF and RF, have been my employer and hobby since 1963. NO-OX-ID preserves the conductive finish. I use it on all AF and low frequency (Below 30MHz) RF connectors and have never had a glitch because of its presence. The ideal amount of NO-OX-ID to use is one molecule thick. No gobs. If a person takes care to wipe off excess with a clean paper towel the residue, barely seen, even, is plenty enough to forestall corrosion. I even use the stuff on gold-plated edge connectors on circuit cards. I own an old Yamaha DSP-A100 integrated 5.1 rig that CircuitCity sold for $50.00 because after it sat around being demo'd the interior flat ribbon cable connections corroded and the amp lost its snot, so to speak. It took fifty hours of repairs, taking it completely apart and burnishing the non-soldered connections, but it worked. (I attended the Panasonic Technical schools for Digital Electronic, Broadcast and Computer Repair and that's where I learned of the built-in obsolescence that non-soldered connections afford.) Even the expensive microprocessor chips that plug in to receptacles decline in conductivity over time, except when protected by NO-OX-ID, so as soon as I purchase a piece of equipment I yank it apart and goop up the non-solderables 'cause I know they're ticking bombs."

I can put links on my website of that helps? It's all in their shop.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks Andy. Finally I found ans the seller was very kind and check my order to be sure it’s ok. I definitive i will same as you….again…. And perhaps will add the equalizer neey sometimes buy this system. Thanks again!

Thanks so much 😂

Tbh I have not the chance to fully charge them yet. I'm in the process of minise the load and fully charge both banks right now to calibrate the smart shunt as well as to balance them. Video will follow... You can see the live view of the setup here: vrm.victronenergy.com/installation/100328/share/2e028071

Yes, you can measure any sort of resistance. It uses the 1kHz signal for that. To measure the resistance between battery terminal and busbar (just this connection), you would need access to the terminal somehow. But it's 100% covered by the busbar...

That will be the case when dealing with lower currents, however this is not DIY territory any more and can be very dangerous. There is not much choice of gear and devices out there to even run a 96V system.

That could be done, I guess... The current is the same in a series connection. Only problem is the accuracy of the current measurement using a clamp meter.

Are these connectors to the BMS standard?

​@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yea they seem to be a standard connector, I found them on aliexpress by the name "JST connector" but im not 100% sure if they will fit because they make diffrent pin size. the bms could be 2.54 mm or 2 mm pitch size but i'm not 100% sure

That's not possible unfortunately as the cell terminals are completely covered by the busbars.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia you could try measuring on the tip of the "screw". If the connection between cell and busbar is good, almost no current should flow through the screws and therefore they should perform as a terminal voltage sense. Not perfect but maybe good enough?

Thanks Chris. There is so much more out there I want to explore and experience. The JK is great, no question but what else is out there...?

Not yet, but I will have one eventually. Now, that I'm clear with the installation and the path forward, it makes sense to have one.

Yes, they are but the fluctuation is really coming from the BMS and how it measures the voltages at the time. The BMS does not do RMS as you voltmeter would do. So it shows the actual voltage at the time of measurement and does not build an average as your voltmeter with RMS would do.

The wire length of the balance cables does not matter, cutting them won't cause any problems.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia .Thanks my friend

It looks like Phoenix Contact PT 4-QUATTRO

Oh, yeah, they look very similar, don't they 😁

You mean the cables for the main negative to the BMS? I used the ones which came with the BMS 2x7AWG.

They can have any lengths. The BMS measures voltage so length is not of any concern.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Does it not also balance them? JK BMS mentioned 2M max when I asked them prior to your response :) Have you by chance used the larger relay driven BMS , I have a few questions for you. Thanks Andy for the great content!

That's not a good and precise measuring method, I believe. The stud itself does not carry much current at all, so there would be far less voltage drop to measure.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia the stud is used as reference voltage potential point and the bus bar is the other voltage potential point the voltage differential between the two points is used to calculate the connection resistance using the formula Resistance = Voltage drop ÷ Current. I have used this method to test connections on Telco battery systems ranging from 100 Ah to 100K Ah to find poor connections cell to cell and from buss bars to equipment feed cables.

@@typ44tq1 I checked that but there is too much variation in this method. Sure, if you have a really poor connection you will find it but if they are all in the same ballpark, it's not reliable, I think.

Yes, there are a lot of German brand for such terminals. I have the Sprecher&Schuh terminals here...

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Lovely mate.

I had these problems even with the battery 1 and tried different methods to overcome. It is all fine now after sanding the ends and applying some paste.

Thanks Matt for your first comment here ;) Double BMS is a bit of a problem... I'm not sure how to connect the power cables in such a case? Parallel or series? If one BMS turns off all the current would go through the second one and could exceed the limits quickly. Could be an interesting discussion here on the channel.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I think you could just overlay them on top of each other, P- together, B- together, the balance leads stacked on the busbar 2x per cell. So wire up the BMS, just twice! With the safety cut offs they should each be the boss of their own destiny, I think the point you made about the JBD article and cascading shutdown etc is only to be feared if you operate outside of design parameters

I recently made a video. It's not necessary... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OsvPYw6hoHc.html

In this case I would go 12V then to save you buying a new inverter. If you ever upgrade your solar and want to use more power, you juts need thicker cables with 12V than with 24V (so spend more money there). Apart from that, no difference.

Thanks Andy for your thoughts I love your video, I have a small home brewery in my garage so I have ordered 8 x 304 ah cell from china no going back now . I intend to buy a phoenix 24v 3000w inverter . Wish me luck. Your thoughts! .....

But then you would have something in between the terminal of the battery and the busbar? Like a ring lug to measure? It's all a bit wonky, I think.... very hard to get a reliable result.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia i did not mean anything in between i ment if one could get the probe to contact with everything in place doubt it is possible but was an idea

3 banks with 16 cells each

I've seen it, thanks. They sent me a display with start button as well but my BMS does not have the port for it 🤦‍♂️ I literally never turn off my BMS, so I'm not to fussed about the start button.

No, why?

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Well, just do it. They’re quie a bit more compact push-in units. Give it a shot.

The JK will stay in there for a while. I have two more battery banks incoming so we can look for alternatives for these then.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I've heard about Seplos 48V 200A BMS. This will have CAN-Bus, possibly good for control with Victron Inverters ....

@@caroman6761 But what would we need to control? If the BMS can talk to the charge controllers or inverter, what would be the benefit? The QUCC and JK BMS have CAN bus as well and talk to Victron. I just don't see the point or benefit of doing it?

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Oh, I get my first JK BMS in a few weeks and didn't know, that JK has already CAN. Sorry ....

@@caroman6761 no problem. The JK is really good, you will love it.

I will add this link tonight and let you know.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks

@@isfanromeo This link has been added now: off-grid-garage.com/cables-and-connectors/

But then you wouldn't be able to tell which side of your terminals are the bad connection.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia that’s why I wrote you need to review 2 busbar connections each time, but it is usually easy to identify which one is the cause… as explained I have been able to solve the issue that way (or replacing the ‘bad’ side with a flexible busbar).

I was going to do that and pull 2 separate wires from the busbars to an individual terminal block (see the old terminal block I had it connected two had to sets of 17 terminals each). I think you can have as many balancers in parallel as you want and they will all work. I heard stories from some using like 3 or 4 of these 5A balancers at once on one battery. And it will work for sure. When I will test other devices I would turn off balancing in the JK BMS anyway otherwise it would interfere with the balancer I'm testing. I guess, we will find out 😉

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Lol that was probably me! I used two Neeeeeee type balancers at once to top balance in series. Hey, I was curious, but it was a fail. They all had their own line to the buss bar thou. Have you seen my last video. Everything is working great in part of what I have learned from you Andy. Don’t balance below 3.4vpc and don’t run the batteries deep in the “knees”. I have incredibly low delta and so many cycles. I’m to the point where I hardly think about my system. I may go a few days before I look in on it.

If you just use stranded fine wires there is a good chance that it will only make good contact where the actual clamp sits. Above and below that point there is no pressure on the flexible cable. Yeah, releasing the clamp first to insert the cable is what I did at the end. The cable basically falls all the way into the terminal.

I had more trouble with fine stranded wire that had ferrules on the end. I really often just twist the end a bit so that all wires make it in to the cage clamps. the clamping mechanism holds the wire against the rest of the metal so contact should not be an issue with bare fine stranded wires. I connected multiple control cabinets with many differently fused motor circuits this way for years now and never had a problem with bad contacts. some different electricians used ferrules on the wires and I heard that cabinet burned out completely,... but I don't know for sure if it really were the wires that were connected with ferrules in the cage clamp terminals...

What? Me? Na klar ;)

How do you know they are B grade? just from watching this video?

Aber klar doch!

Sieht fast genauso aus, das stimmt.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia bin gerade am rum hirnen wie ich das Bier aufm Gütle kalt bekomme. PV Anlage (4 Module) mit 2kW Inverter und 5kWh Batterien steht schon. Will den Kühlschrank durchlaufen lassen und ihn deswegen nicht am Inverter anschließen. Entweder separater 300W Inverter für den 230 V Kühlschrank der vom Thermostat angesteuert wird oder ne 24 V Kühlschrank Lösung - die sind allerdings nicht gerade preiswert

@@mbr8981 geiles Projekt. Muss ich auch noch machen! Ja, die Kuehlschraenke fuer Niederspannung sind teuer wenn man da was anstaendiges mit Kompressor haben will. Miss doch mal wieviel Energie der Kuehlschrank benoetig wenn du ihn 24h durchlaufen laesst. Dann hast du eine gute Vorstellung ob es klappen koennte.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia ich sehe das Problem bei der Standby Leistung des Wechselrichters, sind bei dem 2kW Wechselrichter auch so um 15 Watt. Der Kompressor vom Kühlschrank läuft nicht so oft, wenn nicht gerade jemand Minuten lang die Tür offen lässt. Hatte mir jetzt überlegt den Steuereingang von dem 300 W Wechselrichter mit dem Thermostat im Kühlschrank zu verbinden. Und mit dem DC Load Ausgang vom MPPT Regler hätte ich das zusätzlich verriegelt wenn die Batterie unter eine bestimmte Spannung fällt.

Der flexible Draht kann sich wegbiegen und dann haette er nur dort guten Kontakt, wo auch die Klemme ihn andrueckt. Das hat mit China nix zu tun.

@@OffGridGarageAustralia ich kann dir gerne ein Video oder die Anleitung vom Hersteller verlinken wo es so beschrieben wird.