+lohphat Well, we may have more modern trains in the UK, but the U.S. definitely beats us on monster locos! I love the huge American diesels! The most common diesel loco on our network is the Class 66, which is actually manufactured by EMD in Muncie, IN. It's a beast!
A commuter's journey is only as good as it's worst rolling stock. For you in London, that's probably the same class 319's. We in Manchester still put up with pacers and sprinters. And remember that FTPE operate INTERCITY equivalents, while as similar rolling stock operate basic commuter trains for you. The 350 operate intercity trains to Glasgow and Edinburgh, and we only have ten of them anyway. Our basic commuter lines are still operated by age old trains that were already rubbish when they first started out. We deserve proper replacements, not your cast offs from when you receive new class 387's or 700's. The fact is, the fact that we even are excited over the class 319's is in itself an insult, because if say London received old pacers, I'm sure you wouldn't be thrilled. Meanwhile, your arguments about East Midlands trains is irrelevant, we don't get HST's or Meridians in Manchester. We get 158's, which are old and slow (although heartily refurbished) and anyway operate long distance services, not commuter services. They go all the way to Norwich!
These trains are perfect for commuters who want to not be left on the platform. But the DaFT have forgotten that a large percentage of people going to Brighton are leisure travellers who don't want to sit on ironing boards without tables when traveling with their friends & family! They've also neglected the business commuter who wants a table to work from & a power socket.
Geoff, how about doing a revisit of Thameslink, using the facts stated in your vlogs before it opened and compare them to now. Did the Thameslink Programme achieve what it was supposed to achieve? If not why not?
maltesephil 80% of train journeys start, end or are fully within the South-East of England. That's why they get the lion's share of rail investment. London commuter services and some inter-city routes are the only profitable (no subsidies) rail services.
Saw the mockup at ExCel last January. It was a good exhibit plus I got to sit in the driver's seat too! Looks like a better train for both passengers and staff.
Thing is that they're wanting to keep the Pacers rather than buy new units.... plus we're getting the D stock tube trains that are being converted into diesel trains. These are trains that are as old, if not older than what we have now. How is this progress for the north of England?
Paul Smith I heartily agree with what you're saying, but irrelevant of age the D stock would still be an improvement as they would receive a transformational refurbrishment, similar to the Class 319's we just received, and even when the Pacers first came into operation they were already bad and very cheap (railbus standard). But I still think we deserve new rolling stock...
***** In the 450, at the start the noise is the same but it then gets *quieter*, while in the 350 the noise gradually gets *louder* and starts to sound more like a 377. But even despite the noise, my favourite Desiro train will always be the Class 444 because it has doors at the ends of carriages, not in the middle. :)
These trains look amazing. I'm glad that Siemens won the contract to build them. I use South West Trains and Southern a lot, and Siemens units are a lot better than what Bombadier has to offer. Also to the people complaining about the class 319's moving to the north, please remember that it wasn't that long ago that in the south we were regularly using 50 year old rolling stock on busy commuter services.
I agree 100% with you pal ,im glad were getting the 319 ,at the end of the day ,this will be the first time we will have receved any 4 car emus (APART FROM THE SIEMANS CLASS 350) back in 2013. Northern rail have done a good job with these units, and hopfully good for another 30 years !!!
Martyn Newell Yes about 10 Years ago, and all slam door stock was replaced. The North should complain because they are getting not one single new build of train. In fact Senior civil servants wanted the North to make do with these crap Pacers!!
Tamika Josiah Suburban EMU's in the London area such as Class 455 are older than the Pacer's. Our average fares are higher than the north. Unless fares over equal distances in the south and north are at the same levels, it's obvious that the south will benefit from investment more once that is factored in.
Martyn Newell It doesnt matter if the Class 455 and Class 456 are older. The Class 455 are solid trains based on the Mark 3 Coach. The Class 456 is a slightly new model whereby the Pacer is a cheap train consisting of a bus body from the 1960's bolted on to Rail wagon. Fares are higher in the South, yes they are but ponder this. Crossrail will get Trains at £15 Million each, Thameslink £13 Million. For the North, Porterbrook is going to re-design those crap Pacers for £250,000 a vehicle, £500,000 per 2 car train. Southerners are paying 30 times the fare of the North. Sorry I don't but that. Northern Rail commuters deserve better than bloody pacers.
Tamika Josiah I meant to add that when the 455 and 456 are replaced, they will be replaced by new trains, not with refurbished obsolete LU Stock from 1978 with care engines in.
The more class 319 that arrive at Liverpool ,means we can start withdrawing the 142s and send them to C F Booths Rotherham for scaping, the better it will be as we wont have to put up the being bounced about on them,142s. Great vid by the way ,when do they enter service and were are the next batch of 319 going ?
These trains may be suited to the rapid transit section through central London, but they are horrible for commuting to the city from Brighton. I may be quite tall but most people will struggle to fit in the tiny seats, they are really uncomfortable, and they actually have less seats than the 12 car trains they are replacing. The info screens are a nice touch but it seems the passenger feedback came from central Londoners and not long distance commuters...
I'm 6 ft 2 and commute on these to and from London and Brighton most week days right now. They're great and are perfectly comfortable, spacious etc. Think this comment was talking a bit of shit to be honest
If only we had known them how horribly hard and uncomfortable the seats were for even a short journey Nevermind from the south coast to be on the London
They are horrible. The most uncomfortable seat I've ever had the misfortune of sitting in. No armrests. No tables. It's a terrible commute from Brighton. Fine for within London. Whoever ordered these things should be severely reprimanaded for not thinking of the distances people will be travelling.
As well as the above, no power sockets, or carpets. Seats are rock hard and uncomfortable after an hour. Paint scheme is poor too. Just cheap and nasty compared with class 387 on GWR.
Willem Kuling I know. I hate the 700. The only thing I like is the inside which has lots of air con and lots of space and a superb display board. And nice presentation on the outside too. Only thing I hate is the seats.
If you compare the carriage in the existing train, with the new carriage, you will see that there are a total of five seats across In the existing, And four seats across in the new. So I imagine that although the new trains will hold more passengers, in reality it means more standing passengers, which obviously take up less room than seated passengers. So for maximum passenger numbers, the answer to do away with all seating. Rather like a cattle wagon don't you think? I do travel on the Thames Link line, and find the existing carriages are comfortable, and generally smooth running, however I do avoid the rush hour, and usually managed to get a seat.
I'll never understand why the UK feels the need to have counter-intuitive controls. Why pull the lever back to accelerate and push it forward to brake? Doesn't the opposite make much more sense?
+Wakajce It's like the use of faders on sound mixing desks of the BBC versus other broadcasters: one convention is to push the fader away from you to increase the volume; the other is to pull it towards you. Can't remember which the BBC uses, but it's the opposite of the rest of the world :-)
Enterprising Rail Films Not really. And pretty much the rest of the world accelerates by pushing forward and brakes by pulling back (except America ofcourse)
+Wakajce i thought it was a driver fatigue thing on the dead-man's handle. easier on your wrist to pull it towards you for extended periods, following the natural arc of your elbow. forward is fully extended, not relaxed, and so better for more sudden actions, ergonomically speaking.
Kit Vitae The dead man's switch these days tends to be either/or on the floor or a button on the top of the handle/lever. And that might be the case, but if that were a real problem, then I would have thought all other countries would implement it. But what you said is certainly interesting; I never thought of it like that, but I can't see that being a big reason for it. Who knows though :)
Wakajce i remember getting to use some simulators in the london transport museum, and you had to hold a button down or pull the handle sideways to activate it, and then you could brake or accelerate. but still, you had to hold your hand in that position. footage of the S-stock cabs indicates that you still need to hold it, applying force. (in the S-stock, it twists if i remember correctly!) i know far far less about other countries' railways, alas.
Interesting at 1:52 that the doors between vestimbules and carriages are hinged rather than being sliding. Imagine having to open one of those doors towards you when you've got both hands full with luggage. The seats at 0:19 look very narrow from side to side. I don't like rubbing shoulders with people. At least they've got wide gangways so you can lean that way if you get next to Mr Blobby, as always seems to happen to me on trains and planes :-( At least the seats have got high backs, unlike the dreaded 455s that I used to have to endure on the Bracknell-Waterloo line in the 90s.
At least the 319s (which are good units and way better than pacers) were built in the UK, and not Germany. and what's with the class 700 number? It breaks with the usual convention of 3XX for AC electric units (much as the Freightliner class 70 has broken with the convention for 5X and 6X for type 5 diesels and 7X for DC electric locos)
When you said about the london underground services, I thought you meant it says when the next train on a certain line is. Then when I went on one, I just realised it said 'line = good/bad service'
aarongaming100 that may be cause for a bad service, but what I asked was how can a provider like Thameslink or TFL 'suffer a good service'? The truth is you can't 'suffer a good service' surely one can only suffer something negative, not positive...
How is Seimens in terms of delivery schedules? Here in Toronto we are stuck with Bombardier - because it's a Canadian company, so we apparently HAVE to use them - and not only have they have been atrociously late with our new streetcars/trams, but it appears that they will be behind on delivery of the new Egglington Crosstown LRT trains. In fact, they seem to be much better at making excuses then they are making trains and trams.
When I lived in London it was called First Capital Connect, it was a suprise when I returned to see ThamesLink... I thought the carriages were just being used by a different company because there used to be the First Capital Connect carriages with Southern stickers over the First Capital Connect logo
It was always known as the Thameslink till about 2006, when the franchise was taken over by First Capital Connect. Renamed back to Thameslink in about 2014 when Govia took over the franchise. I was a Thameslink commuter from Sutton for many years.
Those trains are so nice but they will all be cancelled because Charles Horton can't be bothered to run a service. When I was at Farringdon once, the 18:14, 18:28, 18:32 and 18:58 were ALL cancelled! Thameslink need to seriously buck their ideas up cos I am fed up of their lazyness and greediness. But those trains are nice. Good video Geoff!
Deutsche Wertarbeit! ... ... Spaß, wenn die Züge wirklich so toll sind, wie Geoff sie hier vorstellt, dann wär das endlich mal kein deutscher Schrottzug, wohingegen unsere S-Bahnen hier (Baureihe 1440...)
Looks so modern... and I love the LCD screens, they will be great for things like travel updates. As long as the graphics used keep to the nice modern, flat look, this would look amazing. Here's something I saw on twitter, The screen being used to indicate how much room there is in a carriage, determined by the weight of the passengers in the carriage, apparently... pbs.twimg.com/media/ByNQdQWIIAAmupu.jpg very clever.
Liam Smith Great feature, I think I've heard of it being used on platforms elsewhere before. I'm surprised no one's thought of it sooner, the train control system already knows the loadings of each carriage (so that it can impeccably distribute traction power across the train).
Goldingamer I have. But they are all flooding the mainline routes at the moment, but more should start to be rolled out into Wimbledon loop services as virtually every mainline train is a 700 apart from the odd one or two 377 and of course the 377's that go to London Bridge. But more should be coming very soon!!
