Can most games not already do that? Granted I don't play much of the latest and greatest triple A games much on these devices, but unless the game is horribly optimized I'm able to get 60 pretty easy at max res (1200p).
Hey, thanks man. I was waiting for this. Excellent review, as always. Not just playing a bunch of benchmarks and calling it a day. I can't wait to get mine. Hopefully when they send these to the backers they already have that BIOS update in place to be able to get 7500 on the RAM and they had implemented all these extra functions for the touchpads in AYA SPACE 2.0.
Hi @ThePhawx I hope you can see this. The reason to increase TDP (both in desktops and laptops and APU's) is to stop power limit throttling from reducing the CPU (or GPU) clocks, as reducing clocks will drop FPS and calculation speeds. This is the exact same reason why *undervolting* can cause a FPS increase. Because when you undervolt, you reduce the power draw, which makes the APU hammer the power limits less hard (or in some cases, not reach it, in older/lighter games), which keeps the clocks higher. Thus, you get higher FPS at the stock TDP. Now, when you remove the TDP cap, in order for this to actually show 'benefit', you have to *also * overclock the CPU and GPU, after you removed all power limit throttling from the device and the clocks remain at theire "max" clocks during the run. When increasing the TDP stops giving FPS benefit, you have to overclock the APU so that you can 'use' that TDP budget you gave yourself. Then you will get scaling again. That is assuming your BIOS *allows* overclocking to begin with. The limitation is only two things: 1) heat (can you cool the device?) 2) voltage (past a certain overclock offset or fixed clock, your chip will become unstable and will need x mv added of voltage to maintain stabilty). But increasing vcore on APU devices that allow it is almost impossible without custom cooling, as you simply cannot cool most APU's on their stock coolers when you add *both* voltage and core/gpu clock increases (even if you use liquid metal). So therefore, you're usually limited by how much you can overclock the clocks at the stock voltage you get, or how much you can overclock your device while simultaneously undervolting at the same time.
You must have come from that era of overclocking CPU clock and GPU clock via lowering the voltage. There used to have a number of programs specialized in cpu overclocking and gpu overclocking. Some of these CPU bios and GPU come with in-built overclocking program. Desktop now all went to liquid-cooling. Air-cooling using block of metals are so bygones. I am thinking you be opening up the entire device, particularly to replace all the stock thermal paste with the likes of liquid metal to maximize heat transfer out of the device. This way you control the temperature from getting too high which will otherwise lead to overclock unstability but at the same time allow you the leeway to up voltage a little to achieve that desired overclock. Its always about finding that sweet spot which is achieving the desired OC at a comfortable temperature yet being stable.
If we can get more handhelds like this with as big of a battery as it has, it’ll make for some really nice handhelds. Really surprised how people brush this completely aside when comparing other handheld PCs
Mostly because of the price. You can get almost the same performance with the ally which in some cases is almost half the price. It's understandable why it is that way, but many people mainly look at the performance as that limits what it can do.
@@HPPrintervx4p5q Legion Go says hello. Effectively the same performance, or actually better for now since the Lpddr5x on the Legion Go is running at 7500mhz and it's not yet running that on the AyaNeo Kun. Also has the same $699 price (and a great $749 option w/1 Tb ssd), an even bigger and better screen than the Kun, and a decently bigger battery than the ally with its 49.2wh (still only 2/3rd's of the prodigal 75wh battery on the Kun).
@@HPPrintervx4p5qThat and it's also not our job to care about supporting these brands or etc. Our job is to care about the best value for us. That said, I hope these are priced well enough that they can survive in their niece market.
I think 54W will definitely help productivity tasks. You should test it against productivity tasks such as rendering. This is actually super useful for people who wants a do-it-all machine. I myself have a Onexplayer 2 pro eva edition as a mobile workstation and it works really well at max 30w tdp, but I would love to push it to 54w for some of my tasks.
I use a win 4 as my mobile desktop/laptop replacement with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard and the Xreal Air glasses. It's really impressive what the 6800u can do at 32w. I can cut and edit 4k video in a variety of codecs, rendering is pretty quick, some builds of ai image generators work on it, and the air glasses enable some pseudo VR experiences too.
@@cheeeeezewizzz oh nice! Tbh I'm interested in seeing a similar type of render test, for audio, video (both when encoding as well), and 3D Modeling. Programming is pretty simple for me to test for my personal liking, even in spite of their particular attachable keyboard size, it oddly fits perfect for me...which is very very odd, cause I loved the OG Duke controllers for Xbox. Don't get me wrong, the S controller was neat & a for-the-best upgrade for the large userbase tbh, tho personally the lovingly dubbed 'Duke' was actually comfy for me, ig that's why I'm not worried about the weight or some of the ergonomics of the device...just hoping the stand can hold it right for long periods when sitting & using it or rendering or encoding & walking away during the task 😂 (it's just time consuming, as long as it lasts, completes & doesn't crash, then the test will be a success...especially when done multiple times 😅); we'll know soon enough as I'll run my own tests in those categories and try my best to update on it as soon as it arrives & can run them properly. Cheers!
Faster Ram and Memory Bandwidth is sooo important for these Apu's. Better Cpu AND Gpu performance all in one, makes it essential. It's why the Legion Go should comfortably beat the Ally in performance (as well as nearly every other way).
Speaking of OCuLink, Thunderbolt 5 was announced last month, 80G bidirectional or 120G/40G. Imagine that in an handheld. Also USB V2 offers more or less the same features as Thunderbolt 5.
Backed off on my x1 buy to commit on the 64/4 variant here. The ability to handle 54w speaks to build quality, and this chipset is so well built out & permeated that I know support will be there in a big way for years to come. One day I’ll buy a sonnet enclosure and drop a 16/24GB GPU to connect via TB4. $3k to have a performant machine… but a versatile setup that can light up its CPU comfortably. Update: went with a 12GB 4070(2) and yep it’s usb 4 and not tb 4
Bringing up strix halo makes this make a lot more sense. I was so confused when they were talking about dgpu then dropping that but this + strix halo will be perfect
You do cover it, so part of it is title of the vid, but this device really doesn't further anything for the next gen. The challenge is developing high power efficiency chips which can run games well at lower watts. There is no point running this over 25-30W on battery. Showing you can cool 50W in a hand held is also pretty useless when it gets to this size, as this thing is massive. Steam got so much right with the steam deck because it targeted good experience with reasonable battery life. The next gen needs to do the same, show good performance at 15-20W for modern games with decent battery life
Also, I love the crystal clear demonstration of the memory bottleneck on the 7840u. I wonder how much a 6800U would benefit from LPDDR5x, if they were compatible.
So the touchpad does not get recognized in steam automatically as a touchpad (so that profiles using it can auto work) ? No total power draw/drain test at different TDP? Don't really find it ergonomics, the onexfly and Loki is probably the most ergonomics x86 handheld putting aside the steam deck. Calling it a game changer is really a stretch, it's just another 7840u handheld.
Yeah I was interested in this hand held just from an engineering and design point, But it really does just feel like another 7840U handheld. To me the main issue with these handouts is windows that's the crux of everything.
I ordered my AYANEO Kun and I can’t wait for it to replace Asus Ally and I am so glad that you as a reviewer mention the weight doesn’t bother you and you explained why, I am constantly hearing peoples bad about the weight of this product and disregard that having a bigger battery will make it heavier. So I guess just prove that people will complain about something.. I am subscribing to your channel. Thanks.
Great to see 75Whr battery, really looking forward to next year's APUs/256bit bus Things I would like to see in the future HDR Panel (miniLED/OLED don't seem efficient so IPS is fine?) >500 nits if possible (I really want to comfortably use it outdoors) Detachable joycon-esque controllers with built in gyro (Like Legion Go but w/ gyro. very useful for external display/docking and if a Switch can do it...) USB4? (and eventually v2 / 80Gb) Do you think (maybe with the 7500 update) you could test CP2077 2.0? It seems CPU demanding so maybe it will scale better with power? Same with BG3 splitscreen (very unrealistic for a handheld unless docked) (tbh there's many games out this month; AC Mirage, CS2 (Skylines lol), Forza (but not optimized?), Ghostrunner 2 / Lords of the Fallen (hopefully no shader compilation stutter))
Detachable joycon-esque controllers - for what? You do realize that this will result in a flimsy construction? It will also reduce the internal size of the components. Don't you have a bluetooth joystick? Why is it necessary to have detachable joysticks? Detachable joysticks with batteries? Would that reduce the size of the main battery?
I love the big screen, i got big hands and bad eyes and this seems like a dream. Just don't know if I can justify the price because I got the deck for under $500, and it's been doing me well.
So the Legion Go should have better performance at a lower TDP? Makes me feel better about the Legion Go. Just sold my Ally to pay for the new toy LOL.
After watching this video (which was awesome, btw), I searched "Ayaneo Kun" and this wasn't among the results. Several other videos I'd previously watched were in the results, however. RU-vid sucks.
18:17 Love to see a microSD slot behind the kickstand it reminds me like the Nintendo Switch's microSD slot also located behind the kickstand. Earlier when talking about the thermals you said that the kickstand gets pretty uncomfortably hot and I'm worried for those who purchased 512GB or 1TB microSD cards risking them to get fried due to overheating, and issue that happened a lot with the ROG Ally. If one were to add a microSD card for extra storage would it be safe from the hot temperatures the kickstand area receives?
ayaspace 2 still defaults to 24hour format instead of 12 . Your windows is on 12 hour format and on ayaspace 24 hour format. Even if you change it goes back to 24. One of many bugs on ayaspace2
Why would you prefer it to be 4s-1p? Just for the higher voltage? 3s-1p should be ~10v nominal, I think. 4s also gives you smaller individual cells, but I can't think of a huge benefit there.
what a shame i would have gotten this device, but their customer service and warranty are none existent. 5 months and still my device is broken first it was the sd card then after 4 months of receiving my device back i have no sound and my windows isn't activated. to say i'm pi* is an understatement. good video though
@@Donfraslcheap feeling? do you have one? lol from the video it looks pretty good and sturdy, this grey Ayaneo looks actually cheap in comparison, also not inferior specs, the Z1 extreme with 7500mhz ram performs as good as the 7840u, or the difference are so small that are not even worth caring about.
This is the type of stuff I wish ASUS and others would do. Build a proper device, with a proper heat-sink, to get FULL performance. I have an ASUS G14 laptop and this thing is great but, I can't get full performance on it due to the weak heatsink they've used on this device. I have to set the Platform sPPT manually and instead of using the max 115W my system is supposed to be able to handle, I have to limit myself to 92W, or less, just to keep things cool and in spec, it's very annoying. The added wattage actually does make a huge difference in my system as I have a dedicated GPU that performance vastly better with the higher wattage but, it is what it is. Great job AYANEO.
I get it now with the portrait display issue... sorry for my other comment in previous video as I didn't realise they were portrait based displays. Which handheld does have landscape based?
I'm not sure that game changer is appropriate for this. It does look very good indeed but it will still have limited appeal at the asking prices. An improvement yes but incremental rather than stunning.
How do the analog sticks feel? Close to a Xbox or PlayStation controller? I had a Rog Ally and I didn't like the analog sticks, if felt hard to be precise in first person shooters (destiny 2) and almost a cheap feeling. Since you have used both devices I would like your opinion on this please. :)
I want one but I feel Ayaneo should've provided at least three different removable D-Pads instead of one especially for the price of this device. These companies that sell these imported devices have a track record of their devices not working properly so I'm going to wait for more reviews before I make the purchase. I just purchased a AOKZOE A1 Pro back in July and a month and half later the LT trigger started to malfunction and now I'm planning to send it back for repairs. 😆
I would have loved to buy the AyaNeo kun, I've been waiting a long time for a handheld from AyaNeo that has a trackpad!! and now it has become such a big disappointment. I don't know what AyaNeo was thinking with the trackpad it developed. It's only as small as the Dpad and it also has corners/renders that you constantly come across with your finger when navigating!! Steam Deck has shown how to develop a perfect trackpad: large and without corners/edges!!!! Sorry for my english
I’ll be sticking with the Steam Deck, ROG Ally and likely buying the Lenovo Legion Go. All priced in a way that makes sense. Not this overpriced garbage that will see probably 5-10 more iterations announced before it actually releases.
With more established companies joining the handheld market I have less incentive to buy from companies that have very iffy track records with after sale support
Most recent comparisons shows an ally overall best perfs with latest bios and gpu drivers updates...more fps at lower wattage and slightly better fps at same high wattages, despite slowest 6400MT/s ram....so raw power isn't the thing afer all (and steam deck allready proves it)
If this had native Steam OS and an actually reasonable price it would be perfect, I would much prefer the larger screen and the larger size and thus much larger battery means I could overlook the inefficiency of the 7840U is compared to the Van Gogh APU in the Steam Deck. Still at this point I think I would want to wait for the 8000 series APU's at least, if not the 9000 series for a meaningful upgrade from the Steam Deck as the 7840u/Z1 extreme still are far too small of an improvement over the Van Gogh at the more preferable 15W TDP for a handheld, and actually worse performance at 10W. It is so nice though to see competition in the handheld PC space, though I do worry that AYANEO and GPD won't survive in the long term as with Valve, Asus, and Lenovo in the space with massively better pricing as it seems the only thing AYANEO has going for them is their way to expensive and elaborate packaging, which ultimately is meaningless, I'd rather save the money and get a non-descript brown cardboard box, or have a carrying case be the protective part of the packaging like the Steam Deck so it add actual value.
how well does ayaneo kun handle android subsystem with 2d 3d and mix 2d plain but maneuvering in 3d like diablo 3 like game style but on android that are free ps. 2d looking down and games like flappy bird reference I was hoping to play with mixed controls in a game like Vendetta Online..... space mmorpg where you need to run touch screen and gamepad controller to effectively play and navigate the universe due note this game doesn't really have a benchmark but is multi os compatible with certain configuration in account to the game...anyways id like to see if it is worth it to play any android game on this at any performance...like last fortress underground maybe if you (phawx) wanted to show us what to expect to see if it is worth it or not..😁
- Minimum brightness seems way too high. Id expect better from a premium device - Again, from a premium device id expect a higher screen brightness. At least somewhere around 800nits. - From my understanding, back buttons arent extra 4 buttons. They are just replacement for front buttons. That makes them pretty much pointless for simulation games. Is there no way to set them as completely seperate buttons? - I didnt quite catch from the video, with the software update, will trackpads be able to configured as 8 extra buttons? I believe thats how it works in steam deck.
If i have to pick between this and Lenovo the choice is obvious. One is a reputable company the other releases dozens of itirations of their handheld pc per year so we can safely assume these devices wont be properly supported otherwise how many people will Ayaneo needs to employ to cover those products they release!
can u help me. I have the 2TB AYA NEO KUN and which some a huge battery im only getting about an hour of gameplay before the battery dies, that is the same amount of time i was getting on my AYA NEO 2 yet this battery is so much bigger, i figured id get more than an hour? am I doing something wrong? I'm playing games with SMART TDP, full brightness and some games medium, some high settings but again how can i still only be getting an hour off a device with way more battery power than the aya neo 2?. What am i doing wrong. I understand everygame is different but im just playing smart tdp on an AAA game for example like Arkham Knight and im only getting an hour, how can i be getting the same as the aya neo 2 with 10x the size of battery life. I heard someone say they were getting 10-15 plus hours out of this, what was he paying SNES games lol? im so confused.
@@Mark777hits def not on 54W even on smarttdp it shouldnt be on 54W but i remember seeing a video of someone saying they were getting up to 17 hours with this on high watts so just overall confused. If i was at 54Watts 60fps i could understand an hour of gameplay but not an hour for lower than that when people are raving about the battery. Im at full battery now im going to set it at 30 W just to see what i get out of 30. If its only an hour that would be concerning
My bet is the LPDDR5x stability issue is only with 64GB configs, and they just need a bit more time to tune it. This could suggest that the 32GB config may support better timings, vs 64GB both at 7500MTps, which would mean potentially a minor improvement in performance on 32GB, provided you don't run out of memory. Though, probably within margin of error.
The way the last few gens lay bare the extreme memory bandwidth bottleneck shows AMD decision makers are making bad design choices. Valve understood there wasn't much point in having more underfed CUs for their custom ordered AMD APU. These APUs need more cache for graphics and also more cache for the CPU cores so they use less of the DRAM bandwidth, which regardless of vcache will be a much bigger bottleneck for the iGPU than the CPU. It's ridiculous that AMD is going for 12 core with 8 half cache cores for the next gen APUs. 8 cores with extra cache on the iGPU and vcache for both would triple current APU performance at the same wattage. If somehow they try that but it's not working, vcache for the CPU segment alone would save bandwidth usage and leave more for the iGPU.
Its too big to be honest. I like a bigger screen but that will make my arms sore in 15-20 minutes. I'll wait for the next gen apu's and smaller console PC's. I'm enjoying my Ally because its not too large and light enough to play for a hour or so.
