If you want to read my academic work, I speak of in this video, about whales and fish in Scandinavia, you can read it here : www.patreon.com/posts/whale-in-old-and-32171412 "The Whale in Old Norse Religion and Scandinavian Medieval Literature", unlock it for $3 and you will also have access to 100+ papers, essays and academic works, plus 200+ posts including behind the scenes. Cheers! Have a great day!
@Alien Alien he never said he was or he wasn't. Arith expressed that he isn't concerned in showing his spiritual/religious beliefs but more concerned in trying to be neutral as much as possible so that his own perceptions won't influence the historical truth
Yes, I remember well that as a good teacher, Mr. Härguer lets his listeners form their opinions, and that is Freedom of Speech. As intelligent beings, we must be open to knowledge, not only the one with whom we identify, but also, to the contrary, this is the challenge that Häguer leaves us. Every day we learn, sometimes improving, sometimes to accept change and rebuild our point of view!
@Alien Alien First of all, he is clearly pagan but being a pagan and speaking about Scandinavian stuff doesn't make hin Asatru. In fact, you haven't been paying attention at all because in several videos he said he isn't Asatruar at all. Secondly, you seem to make a confusion between the study of comparative mythologies and with universalism. The study of comparative mythologies is essential to understand religions of the past in the academic field. He is presenting information on an academic perspective, not exposing his own spiritual beliefs. And you speak as if universalism was bad, you are the typical asatruar who lingers in the same bs that was being invented in the 19th century. Have a good day.
@Alien Alien why would Asatru be genetically based? Its like say a person who isn't jew cannot understand kabbalah, yet many study and understand. you know your stance is called spiritual materialism and is the lowest manner of interpretation. its usually used by those who need to feel special, so they pick fights and make silly claims to validate there lack of understanding by trampling others. maintaining a level of ignorance to preserve self identity, or just stupidity. genetics is really complex, how your understanding of epi-genetics or do you understand the mechanics in which enzymes cut and paste protein sequences, how that changes in relation to the location of the body, what about mitochondrialdna, and how that effects development? which gene codes for asatru,? can it mutate or be methylated , if so, do you suddenly forget your spiritual understanding, is that the reason why the Christians changed the mythology, it was a genetic mutation, cause no where is there evidence for this? to say its genetically based shows you are either just making your self feel better, or just used concepts you think people are afriad to challenge you on. I think you in no position to start judging argument forms, when your base claims are foolish on the face of it. o and use your intuition more, and listen more and you can see the angle the speaker is coming from, its not hard young-ling
The Indo-European archetype of the masculine thunderer/smiter slaying a serpent monster is found in many different places at many different times (Indra, Apollo, Jupiter, Perun, etc) . I don't disagree that the serpent was probably a prehistoric fertility symbol supplanted by new gods of a more warlike, masculine culture, but I think it's even older than Christianity.
I used to live near a 'sleeping dragon' called Arthur's seat in Edinburgh. I could see the sleeping dragon from my window. I studied this dragon which I initially viewed as an obstacle in my path. Then one day the dragon awoke in me. I went on to study a bit of dragon mythology and came to the understanding that in the westernized 'Christian' world, the dragon was demonized and it was something within the human psyche that had to be slayed or destroyed or something we needed to rise above in order to reach heaven. I contrasted these ideas with the Chinese view of the dragon who revere both serpents and dragons. It was then I understood that christianity was rejecting the aspects of ourselves that are linked to what they viewed as our lower drives, ie. our basic instincts which we call upon to survive, reproduce and flourish. The Chinese view dragons as powerful cosmic forces that enhance our survival instincts on earth and this enhances our understanding of nature and the cosmos. The dragon is a living entity/force to be celebrated. It appears our ancient 'Norse' ancestors had similar and different ideas to the Chinese. Many ancient belief systems viewed the serpents as symbols of life, transformation and rebirth. I believe the dragon is a cosmic force and the earth is a cosmic entity. So what you say makes sense. Plus, DNA resembles two serpents similar to the caduceus which is interesting considering it is a symbol used in modern medicine. The serpent like spirals that can be found on pagan stones resembles the life force of the universe ie. milky way as well as the life force on earth. Thank you, Arith, for sharing your ideas with us.
You are an inspiration to me. I've been searching my Scandinavian "danish/german" norse pagen heritage. Out of all I've watched you give the best description. Thank you for all you do
I am no Tolkien expert but there is a historical king of Alfheim in Bohuslän in Norway/Sweden whose name was Gandalf, and regarding his clan there are myths about a certain Alf (a name in the royal family of Alfs) becoming Alf den ljuse - Alf the fair, a benevolent creature of light. I would guess that Tolkien knew about this myth, but it is a very obscure one.
Things have been so corrupted. We have been taught to stamp on our own deity. But with such enlightened information, hopefully not for always. Thank you for this knowledge.
Yes. Christianity has done alot of damage to our cultures. Whenever I read about Zeus affrairs with other creatures in this world, I see nothing more than christianity twisting Zeus stories
It's 5 in the morning for me. Even though I want to watch this video so baddly. And hour long omg that's awesome but it's way to late/early to do so. So it is saved for when I awaken. I can't wait to listen.
Mr. Härger, if you don't mind me asking, what sources did you get this information from? I would like to do further research into this topic. Thank you in advance.
This some of the best info I've ever heard. Armed with this info I can now better understand all other mythologies as well. And root out the Christian B.S. that has damaged my psyche. Thank you sir!!!
I thank you dearly for your sharing of this beautiful tradition and knowledge. Although I am from south America, it is amazing how similar the ancient traditions are in their understanding of the universal powers, it is possible to link up the nordic concepts to those of the mayans the aztecs the muiscas and many more. Hail the old Gods !!
i have a wooden necklace amulet of jörmungandr and to me it is a symbol of being at piece with nature. it always upset me when people say that my amulet is "inaccurate" and that no vikings would ever have worn "the enemy of thor". now i understand why it bothered me so much, thank you for explaining and making me more sure of my faith
Thank you. Your great videos have improved so much. The snake, the Naga is of huge transcultural importance. So clearly spoken, so focused and passionate.
The Naga is a good concept to understand the Serpent Cult predating the indo-european religious expressions seen in Hinduism ^^ In Hinduism there is a mixture between the old and the new, or rather, the pre-indo-european and pre-indo-iranian religions based on earth-cults, and the indo-european and indo-iranian religions based on Sky-deities.
Arith Härger Well, I spent all together 1 year in Nepal to learn about tribal shamanism over there and the NAGA really has pre-hinduistic origins. My Nepalese friends came to Europe every year and diagnosed many problems because NAGA, ANCESTOR SPIRITS and others are disrespected and feeling angry. Himalaya has preserved many ancient traditions and Nepal was never colonized. Naga comes in all colors and moves in all the 3 worlds. It moves in lightning, a tsunami, our veins, a rainbow, lightning, a creek, a river, a landslide, muddy fertile soil.... Naga loves milk, eggs and especially nettles (very holy plants)...
Really, really appreciate this video and your thoughts and research on Nidhögg and Jörmundgandr - I always felt that there must have been so many more stories and aspects regarding the snakes and dragons of the Norse than the chaotic monstrous ones - specially in comparison to other mythologies. Your work and channel are such great sources which expands the Norse-Germanic world beyond the well known stories of the Gods and Goddesses - it helps me broaden my own path and to explain interesting Norse/pagan aspects for others! Stort tack/Obrigado!
I thank you dearly for your sharimg ofcthis beautiful tradition and knowledge. Although I am from south America, it is amazing how similar the ancient traditions are in their understanding of the universal powers, it is possible to link up the nordic concepts to those of the mayans the aztecs the muiscas and many more. Hail the old Gods !!
Oh my goodness! Ty for this! This makes so much more sense ... The constellation Cygnus the swan/goose/vulture/duck ect. Sits in the branches of world tree from which she sprang...thru the tree, the dark rift, the valley of the shadow of death, the cosmic womb, which is just at the beginning of the Milky Way, the flowing river of life which spills forth from the womb stretching all the way to Ophuichus/ the serpent bearer, who holds a snake where the roots of the tree lay....kundalini...as within, so without... 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💞💓✌🏽
this explanation of the Christian imposition of a negative view of the dragon fits well for the Nordic context, but how do you explain the similar story of Indra killing the water serpent Vitra, found in the Rg Veda (dated to approximately 1, 500 BCE)?
I would say Indra killing Vitra, along with Zeus killing Typhon, indeed was them doing so, and that Vitra, Typhon, Kingu, and Leviathan should be thought of as different than jormangandr
Great video! I agree Arith, it is fishy that in such a short time line of 200 years perhaps less the whole art and story line appears perverted and sadly we only have lots of the evidence in the lands already of converted once pagan or still partial pagan/Christian mix. Goes to show you what wealth, land, a new wife and 2-4 generations of family raised in foreign places can do to ones roots and if we did not have the not so much older evidence we would not even see the change happen. Makes me think of the far far distant past and beliefs, Gods, Goddesses perhaps even whole religious systems being common place for 1000s of years to be erased as fast as the way's of the old land vs that of those living in it for such a short time being like sun in moon in their story line, and art. Without stone to carve it on, it would be dust and not archaeological evidence of any kind.
Great video, again! Love the way you research things. Love the depth. You have the ability to show subjects from a completely different angle. Or go deeper. Great job again! Thank you so much for all your effort. I know it's time consuming. Please, go on. Every minute of your work is worth listening to and valuable. Greetings from Slovenia, an old Venetic, Windish, (Slo)Vendish or whatever you wanna call it, country.
How do you explain all of the countless dragonslayer/serpent slayer myths found in most of the Indo-European descendant cultures and religions? In most of them, the god or hero slays the dragon/serpent and then uses the body in some way to bring about life. I respect your perspective, but it seems more likely to me that this is a very old Indo-European root myth, rather than Christian influence. Yes, as you say, the serpent is related to the energy of the earth and to swirling, sinuous vitality. And it is this vitality that, much like with Yimir, is distributed through dismemberment after the slaying of the serpent. Refer to the myth of Indra and Vritra. In it, most interestingly, when Indra slays the three-headed dragon he does so to release all the waters of the world that the dragon had claimed. Releasing of the waters can also be analogous to the blood of the serpent, which we see as being powerful and full of vitality. Note, also, that Jormungandr is said to hold or retain waters, as you yourself touched on. The myth of Indra and Vritra is only one of the many serpent slayer myths that descend from the original Indo-European culture. It is for this reason that I believe that this is an instance of PAGANISM influencing CHRISTIANITY, instead of the other way around.
Even older than indo-european is the Assyrian/Akkadian story of Ninurta/Marduk fighting a Serpent/Dragon. Also the very indo-european hittite story of Teshub slaying the serpent Illuyanka. I think Arith's theory needs some revision..
You are great. I like very much your content. Keep doing it please! You are better professor than any one who are in mainstream academia telling lies and repeating politic propaganda. God bless you
thank you so much Arith for this video ......as a lover of serpents and all that they represent , it is great that you are enlightening the world with this information ... :) a most enjoyable video my very dear friend :)
The chinook of the pacific northwest had Tattoosh for the thunder god. They also adorned their tepees, canoes, and jewelry of him. The amount of overlapping through all the pantheons is yuuuugggeeeee.
Brilliant ,thank you Arith ,your conclusions are well thought out and go to the core of these myths .very well explained ,i enjoyed the video from start to finish . keeping the old stories and tales straight is the key in your work , you have perfectly unlocked the doors of mis- truths and Cristian bias . THANK YOU ,again ...have your self a wonderful day .
Oh, this is such important information for the world to know - and I am so glad I found your channel. An understanding of Animism, which predates all religions and paganism, is IMO mankind's best hope for survival. It is not a belief; it is an inner knowing that arises out of the same scientific method of observation, hypothesis and testing we use objectively. I can't imagine a better symbol than the serpent to express the divine life force power of the earth. Thank you for helping me see this!
Hello Arith, thank you for the stupendous amount of content you provide. In a way I'm glad that you still haven't talked about Vánagandr yet (unless I'm mistaken and haven't seen that video yet) and his siblings, and how Odin technically broke his family apart. I am still exploring, wondering, imagining the truth and potential truths to that story. I don't like getting influenced but really enjoy synchronicity and agreements in thoughts, I'd really enjoy a video on that if you are interested. Again, thank you.
Aboriginal Australian people have a lot of stories about great serpents.Usually called rainbow serpents.I have never thought of Jorganmand as evil , just a force of nature,both creation and destruction.
Its themes here are always interesting from a cultural, informative and even pedagogical point of view, I think it is important to know, listen, read, finally knowing that there are several points of view and knowing how to expose is fundamental and you do it with excellence! Congratulations Mr. Härguer! Continue to surprise us, thank you.
Im at the part about Niðhogg in the video, and I was wondering if I may propose a thought on it.. you mentioned your doubt that the name was carried over accurately, but what if his name was more so a play on words.. maybe not so much about stripping their honor, but one who strips their human form in order to move on anew
Thank you for this video. It has helped me understand so many things. I have listened to it 3xs. I am sure to listen many more so not to miss any details!
Thank you so much! This video is so full of information and enlightening analysis that I will watch it again, just to make sure I have heard and understood it all. Obviously you have researched and interpreted a great deal, so thank you for your time and energy, as well as your intelligent and clearly-expressed thoughts on a complex subject.
It is crazy but I saw what I would describe as the world serpent in a dmt trip before I even started any spiritual/magical awakening type stuff. It was black and electromagnetic and it seemed to be able to make a tentacle appear out of nowhere constantly and everywhere and would then touch its influence upon someplace on the Earth. I felt that it was those little nudges given to obscurity (or the ether) to allow something (or forbid--for that matter) to be brought into being. I was brought there by the little blue friends on the polar opposite side of life where everything we do here is balanced over there by some very generous folks. When they took me to this massive snake I was filled with awe and humility. It looked me right in the eyes and I felt love in a stronger sense than I can ever remember feeling in any moment. I was able to get an "I love you" out before starting to cry like a baby. That moment changed my life. This sounds the most like any symbolic representation I have ever heard regarding what I witnessed that night.
Hi Arith Härger keep up the great work, it is much apreciated. Please do some vids about Greek paganism, specifically about Orphism and the worship of Phanes (Zagreas,Eros). Also about the great goddess Hekate and the importance of 3. These are both traditions that started in northern Greece and spread across the land but got buried under the rubble
Just returning to this video after defending it in some rather reactionary circles. I want to say thank you, more than usual, Arith. This is a topic that needed your attention. Its a major obstruction to anyone trying to reconnect with the ancient world view. The origins of the myth and its evolution, and all concerning these things, are complex, shrouded in time, tangled in history, politics, and confusion. We see other very ancient beliefs about the serpent world wide and this story simply doesnt fit, it holds the west, the north, apart from the rest of humanity and conflates ethnic identity with a fundamental misunderstanding of reality. Really only one such as yourself could begin to unravel this mess for us, so thank you Arith. I dont have your training or connections, for me its entirely on me to use what research and understanding I can gather to cut through the treacle, by doing this video you're not just bringing me interesting info and new views to consider, you bring a full effort to solve a puzzle we both share but is far beyond my means to manage on my own. Thank you, Arith, this is priceless
Judging buy the thing that says how long the videos are I think this is your longest video I reckon you should try to beat it's in length next time just because we could always use more of your content
If Thor fighting Jormungand is a Christian motif, does that mean that neither Thor nor Jormungand die during Ragnarok? Does that mean that the whole story of Ragnarok is a Christian motif?
I think Ragnarök will happen but the gods won't die as Snorri depicted with all due respect may God rest his soul. All the gods vanir and aesir, childrens of Loki, elves, dwarves will fight together against Surtr and his forces.
@@Torsteinhauger The composer of the Wikipedia entry states, that in Voluspa "Odin is to be killed by the wolf Fenrir, and that Surtr will go to battle against "Beli's bane", a kenning for the god Freyr, who slew the giant Beli...In the stanzas that follow, a number of gods and their opponents are described as doing battle at Ragnarök, and that the world will be consumed in flames, yet afterward a new world rises from the sea, fertile and teeming with life, and the surviving gods will meet again and that Thor's sons Móði and Magni shall possess Thor's hammer Mjöllnir." But it doesn't say who wins - Surtr or Freyr. So is there somewhere that states whether Freyr is one of the surviving gods?
@@margaretwhitmer2715 Many scholars agree that voluspá one of the peom in Peotic edda is heavily influenced by Christianity which was written in the 10th century before the Christianization of Iceland to make the conversion easier. Snorri did change a few things here and there and made it relatable to the Bible so pagans in Iceland will easily accept the new religion. And he kills all the major gods in the end except for few I don't buy that all. The evil spirits of hel will join together to fight against the Aesir gods is a complete hogwash. Norse afterlife realm hel is completely opposite to Christian hell. Don't believe everything Snorri Sturluson says.
@@Torsteinhauger Oh, I don't. My best scenario is that Surtr and his allies just go on a tear for awhile that eventually burns itself out (as such conflagrations generally do) and then go back to Muspelheim until the next time they feel a need to tear it up. It seems every now and then the chaotic forces need to give us (and the gods) a poke to remind us/them that we/they aren't as powerful as we/they think we/they are. Another way to read it is that the advent of Christianity was, in a sense, Ragnarok. But now the gods are back. Hail.
OK, for an explanation of the basis for the Thor-Jormungand fishing story, see Job 41 "“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook?" etc. Snorri appears to be trying to draw a parallel between Jormungand and Leviathan and while some aspects may be similar, other aspects are not.
I don't mean to be rude, but could you read some of my replies in similar questions in this video? A bit tired today of repeating myself, that's all. In this video I'm specifically focusing on a scandinavian religious context fomented by Christian, but not entirely exclusively a Christian formulation, but just fomented by Christians in medieval scandinavia. It's actually a indo-European religious motif and the clash of that sort of religious mindset and the belief in sky deities when in contact with the pan-indo-european earth-cults/worship. Please, read my other replies. Thank you.
Arith Härger thank you for answering! At the moment I wrote there wasn’t much of a comments. I’ve already read your message, thank you very much for your work!
I understand that Thor doesn't kill Jormungandr. How then does Thor die during Ragnarök? I sometimes interpreted it as Thor fighting against fate. Or struggling rather.
I know I'm late to the party but What if Thor fishing jormungandr is him wanting / trying to 'wake' or connect to the earths life force... Maybe he will have to kill his mother so in the mutual destruction of ... everything, everything begins again from the new egg. Random associations - I just watched the serpent & the egg Video again 🍃 Or Thor is us exploiting life force because we can and if we keep doing that it will fight us and if the fight kills them both, they die. We die. Whatever... Maybe they painted that motif as a warning that could be passed through Christianity :D
@@handalf9502 I've got a much easier explanation. Jormungandr is the child of Loki. It's fairly reasonable that Loki may corrupt Jormungandr and his purpose during ragnarok. His mother is a sort of god of the earth, but the actual earch was made from the body of Ymir.
@@jojothermidor Maybe jormungandr ist jord after a night of angry drinking with Loki! I was thinking of jord as the creative force of life, maybe like sophia not the physical structure of the earth. However, don't take me too serious :)
I had a feeling that was the case! the Vikings (serpent at front of ship) came to Ireland (one of their friends) to defend their faith - not to rape and pillage as Roman history tells us!
Great Videos. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and thoughts. Could anybody explain to me the symbol with the two people n the Background. I've seen that before, but I don't know its meaning.
Last night I cleared, charged, christened and named my new dragon torc. The timing of this (again) excellent video seems to indicate my own timing was good.
Why would you "christ-en" something? To "Christ-en" is to dedicate something to Christ. christen (v.) c. 1200, "to baptize into the Christian church," from Old English cristnian "to baptize," literally "to make Christian," from cristen "Christian" (see Christian). Especially to baptize and name as an infant, hence "give a name to at baptism" (mid-15c.) and the general sense of "give a name to" anything, without reference to baptism (1530s). Related: Christened; christening. Christ-ening is specifically a Christian act that marks a person or a thing as dedicated to Jesus Christ; that's why the first part of the word "christen" IS "Christ."
@@tracieh215 Thank you, you make an excellent point which did not occur to me. Wording is indeed important because it influences thought. I should have said "named" and will do so henceforward.
with your knowled1ge and beard you remind me of Mimir from God of War lol. Thank you for this video I enjoyed it a lot! might be my favorite one so far
Hey Arith. just stumbled on your videos recently but greatly enjoying. Part of my last name is Orm because my great great great grandfather was a strange danish artist who named his children Orm and Hel after Lokis children and the name has been passed down. The theory in my family is that he kind of considered him to be a trickster god himself. This video was really interesting to me though cause I have really relied on Jormungander and thors duels for storys involving my namesake. Do you have thoughts on Jormungandr as Lokis son? is that a christian construct too?
I had wondered about this subject myself but being new to learning the norse pagan view I hadn't delved into it much. Your videos always give me greater perspective and help me fill in the gaps. Sometimes they give me a whole new view I hadn't even considered. Thanks again!
Great talk on the confusion of pagan beliefs and the the christian manipulation of the great Thor!!...Appreciate you time ,was very interesting..Thank you👍
Most what they learn us in university about slavic culture is a lie and once i wrote them an essay about the clothes that was worn and made that time, that the red suffisticated line was a protection and meant snake protector, they put 0 mark to me for it and lauhted critisizing me without giving their reasons why i was wrong. Hate them. We are given the write to tell our opinion, but once we say they dislike it and disallow to express your studies
I recognize that there are serpents that hold very positive roles in animistic cultures. The Rainbow Serpent of the aboriginal people of Australia, for instance, is a beautiful myth, as are the many Chinese serpent myths. But the legend of a god/hero slaying a serpent-like sea monster crops up in Indo-European and Middle Eastern myths long before Christianity. In Greek mythology, Zeus kills Typhon; in Hindu mythology, Indra kills Vrtra; in Slavic mythology, Perun kills Veles; and in Hittite mythology; Tarhunt kills Illuyanka. It is such a common motif that I question whether the Norse version is necessarily the result of Christian revision.
I interpret Thor fighting the snake in a pagan way for me. To fight the snake for me is a symbol for the attempt to eliminate dangerous aspects of nature (especially in agriculture with Thor as its protector). We as humans should not try to dominate or destroy the earth and its nature when even the gods in a good will are not capable to do this. Donar is not capable to kill this danger (when he goes out fishing) but only to change it a little bit in the direction he wants to (the lifting of the cat in Utgardlokis hall). It only seems to be successful while the nature force will sleep and wait for its time to strike back (at Ragnarokr).
