still that could just be her fearless bravado too but i see ur point but regardless of whether she knows its weakness i highly doubt that a mortal can kill a primal demon
Nilah is actually referencing the Second Death that comes with The Etherfiend, which is ironic as it represents "being forgotten" something Nilah is avoiding.
@@Lunar1us Those in that paper are just branches of Fear, which is Fiddle, a primal one. And it was written by Noxians and they know nothing, so don't take it as fact.
There is a demon of secrets in the Demon Compendium image. But considering the structure of that image, with the root of the branching paths being the demon of "Fear" I doubt anything else on there is a primordial demon themselves, just an offshoot. Not to mention, if any of those demons were a primal demon, why are there only 8 named.
@@ruberose1825 theres also the fact that she didnt claim his demon as a lord where as she does with her own and fiddle not to mention im sure she wouldve noticed if he was cause she tells fiddle to send the others after her so she wouldve clued into swains demon being a primal
Since Nilah doesn't have any other emotion aside from joy, I can't help but imagine her laughing like a madwoman while covered in bruises and bloodstains
and as a bonus, the etherfiend in actuality is the second death, being forgotten, the fact that nilah is so scared of no one remembering her, even her saying "i will live forever in song" is completely true, if she becomes a myth she can't ever experience that second death and maybe she actually already did, maybe she is the only person on earth to have experience the second death before the first and that's why she doesn't want it to happen ever again
This makes more sense, as said the Pale Man split himself in two, he's not a third character in the tale, not even "far older", as himself is both, and a recurring guy in every runeterran version of the tale.
"When you meet the demon warn him of my strength" refers to the 3rd primordial demon we know- Rakhsasum. He is the collector from the spirit world. Represented by Thresh's Spirit Blossom skin
This isn't a primordial demon, they're likely just a strong spirit/azakana (based off how they feed). Nilah is also very weird with names in general, she called Darkins 'Lords of Light' like they were demons.
@@rogueObscura Darkin are literally Lords of Light tho. Corrupted, fallen Ascended, who got their power first from the Sun Disc and now from corrupted magic, specifically Blood Magic. However, they still are and will always be Ascended of Shurima, born from the Sun's Light and power.
This makes lot more sense, the Fading Icon is extremely scared of being forgotten, and while Nilah might not feel fear, she also is trying to make her name remembered by everyone. The Kindred might take her life, but her "true" life lies in the hands of the Etherfiend... or is it wings? Talons? Beak?
@@louisrobitaille5810 another spirit of death who basically is the representation of second death (It was revealed that Kindred isn't the only spirit of death, but only one of many). If Kindred takes those who die, the Etherfiend takes those who are about to be forgotten
So far, I really like Nilah as a character. A girl obsessed with legends and myths and wants to become a legend herself as the ultimate goal to the point of selling her soul to a demon in return having the powers to defeat the monsters and beasts to become a legend. Design wise, reminds me of Ixtal but when revealed to be a new country on a new continent it makes her design to be tame something introductory to Kathkan as a nation.
I only wish the twist of her character was more prominent in her lines cause it mostly seems that she's in control with no drawbacks whatsoever and you need to know her lore beforehand in order to understand what the twist is
Yeah the way how Nilah Expresses her "JOY" it sounds like she is sadistic and Enjoys how she defeats her Opponents. That is why she is so Prideful and Gloats all the time.
6:28 It looks like you've forgotten, but Raum (and the others then) was confirmed to not be a primal demon when Fiddlesticks' rework happened. On another note, 'Secrets' doesn't feel broad enough anyways, the strength of the Ten is that they feed off the most base emotions. 2:26 On an entirely different note, I think these lines are just Nilah gassing herself up. It's not a new thing for Riot to have champs be snarky and act like Big Cheese against other threats. Ashlesh' jar IS strong, but Nilah is still mortal and that demon is still imprisoned. Last note: Ashlesh is much more likely the '7th of Ten,' because of all the recurring 7's in its past (7 hands, 7 locks, 7th layer, 7 jars).
It is weird that we are getting Nilah and Fiddle encounter and fight in an alternate universe as start guardians and not in the canon lore. It wont be canon to runeterra but it might help us understand their relation a bit.
The voiceline against Mordekaiser left me like: °o° Mordekaiser will be literally be a final boss one day, it's like telling Thanos "GG EZ ;(" in his face.
@@serendipity4346 That.... doesn't make any sense. "Final" implies that it will be the last boss. That's literally what the word "final" means. The peak, the end the finale. Or are you telling me that we will fight Mordekaiser alongside like a ton of other powerful beings at the same time?
The more I think about Nilah's situation, the more I feel like her fate just feels horrid. She is scared of being forgotten, at least she knows she should be, but she can only feel joy no matter what. That's so damned horrific.
8:33 i thought this was a reference to that runeterra card, the Etherfiend who kill spirit once their are forgottent since she is only saying that when she kill kindred
Lmao as a Mordekaiser main who fucks with his lore, I can't stand Nilah's weird ass roast attempt. Sahn Uzal ain't scared of death, one of his older stories had him laughing in the face of death as if Ashlesh had possessed the warlord. Like a real-life Norse Viking, he was expecting some sort of Valhalla for strong warriors to be among the gods after death, there was no such thing, he was disappointed and pissed off. This is not something Fiddlesticks can feed of off. There ain't no fear involved here, disappointment- his expectations of the after-life were not met, drive and anger- he refused to fade, his rage did not allow his soul and spirit to rest, he is going to make sure to create his "own Valhalla", or just conquer both living and dead now that he has the chance as Mordekaiser the Iron Revenant.
I believe the reason why we don't know much about Swain's "deal" with Raum is just down to riot not writing him any new lore whatsoever. Plus, I don't think Nilah's voice line means much because it states in Swain's lore that he could see what even the demon could not, a way to wield it, basically implying that Swain outsmarted the demon and is in at least majority control of Raum's powers.
Interesting there is no interaction with Annie. since LOR showed us that she has a demon with her, and maybe a primal one (idk, a giant fire bear demon that can destroy a noxus mage academy can't be in the same league as a dapper catfish and a hot lady). Not even like a: "hey kid you know you got a demon with you right?".
i think tibbers is technically one of morde's creations, which would make sense why Noxus wants to use it and why it's in Noxus to begun with, Immortal Bastion and all
Man i really want some context to this. There is no deal from Annie so i am wondering ehy that demon even stays with her. Imagine it beeing the demon of loneliness or something like that.
@@josuagreis353 it was bonded to her mother before her I think? I know he got bound to the stuffed bear, and the bear was Annie’s mother’s before Annie killed them and inherited it. Plus Tibbers isn’t a primal demon, just a creation of Morde.
@@Kindredflame0224 Would be wierd for the demon to stay like that after the person he made the deal with died. Annie also didnt kill her mother i think. But she did get the bear to remember her. Maybe there was a deal from the mother in which the demon has to protect annie, but that sounds super boring. Also the mordes creation thing i didnt read, but i dont know the whole annie lore, why would morde create a demon infused teddy?
@@josuagreis353 I don’t think tibbers works like a normal demon, seeing how he isn’t one. Noxus probably has some sort of magic, LeBlanc bullshit going on to keep him contained. Also she did, it’s confirmed in, I believe, a cinematic from a few years back as well as a interaction she has with Jhin in LoR
I wonder in the "kill - Kindred" voice line if Nilah is sensing the man coming back from the two halves or sensing the Etherfiend coming to take kindred's masks away
since she's living out her childhood dreams and that fits well with feeding the demon of joy, i think her being human fits rlly well for once! she could maybe have like misty extra arms tho behind her or smth but still keep her base human form in tact,
Mmm I’m pretty sure it means she knew after making the deal with Ashley she’d only be able to feel joy, not that she got to choose whatever emotion she wanted and be able to feel that afterwards as that wouldn’t benefit ashlesh in any way what so ever
hes the demon of joy she wouldnt have been able to choose. but she could have known shed be stuck with only joy when choosing to wield Ashlesh's power.
I know this is a farfetched assumption, but i think i would be funny if she actually battles fiddlesticks, presumably kills him, then he just comes back even stronger.
I believe fiddle can win because of one massive weakness: Nilah is forced to feel joy, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for her to have the demon of fear let her feel fear, to finally feel other emotions.
I would love to see what kind of connection the layers have with the primal demons. Maybe Ashlash is the 7th demon, so 7th layer and Fiddle would "occupy" the first. Just imagine: camavorian or kathkani mages drawing the power of the ten primordial layers to cast spells. I'm too excited for all of this.
So if Ashlash is Akin to Fiddlesticks, and Fiddle is High King and Ashlash is like a Lord, would that mean fiddlesticks can force Fear into people's emotions like ashlash does with Joy?
yea, thats exactly what he does. Being near Fiddle causes people to feel fear, theres a story on universe where he enters a village and everyone goes batshit crazy cause they start losing their grip on reality and just see their fears. This isn't even fiddle like actually doing anything, hes just casually passing through
Mordekaiser: I consumed the realm of the living and the dead, ruled an entire continent alone, was resurrected three times, build the immortal bastion and my weapon is made with the souls of those I have slain. Nilah: well I made a deal and now I am more powerful and happier than you are.
He fears death, that’s why he tries to conquer it. Refuses to accept it. Why he tries so hard to create his own eternal paradise, so that he never ACTUALLY had to face death.
I actually thought how Ashlash would look like if he wasn't locked inside this orb. But what makes sense, that if he's one of the primal demons, then he shouldn't have form, just like Fiddlesticks, but have different colour palette. Now I wonder what colours other demons possess!
I have a theory about the voice line when she kills kindered, i actually think that the thrid presence far older is not the Grey man but the volture spirit that kills the forgoten spirits (card in LOR, and refrenced in the story with the masks) this would make sense sincr the third presence would not be the other too combined and would br much oldet than them
I kinda get the vibe that Nilah and Ashlash entered in a deal, but Nilah doubled crossed Ashlash and tricked him into providing her his power somehow. Possible evidence: Her quote to Swain about how she knew the deal she made, while he didn’t. Her multiple quotes ABOUT Ashlash and his imprisonment as well as how he rages. Her quote to Ashlash about how she took his powers and is using them to end the other 9 primal demons. All of this makes me think that she’s crafty and outwitted Ashlash to be a force that could truly end the demon threat while also going down in history as a legendary epic…like Hercules or Achilles or other heroes talked about in legend
I feel like the kindred kill quote was referencing the Etherfiend card from LoR. Which takes all the masked beings beyond after their second death. It even has a quote when played with them saying "They need not know - yet.", implying it will come for them some day.
@Necrit I found this interesting, Playing ARAM as Tryndamere with a enemy Teemo on the other team and the shop keep said to Tryndamere, "Such hatred, Don't become blinded by it" and then few games later was playing ARAM as Teemo and noticed his one Eternal relating to his Q ability is named "Blinded by Hate" I never heard that shop keep voice line. I always enjoy the lore tossed in at time on ARAM you don't always hear on twisted treeline and Teemo Q eternal makes sense since since its blinds but Teemo isn't really full of Hate everyone hates him. Also i know the shop keep hates yourdle's and mentions it a lot with quotes like, "Ewww a yordle, or if you see a yordle with a little flying ship shot him for him." Any lore related to why that is? also maybe there's some hidden eternal lore reference's I'm going to look for.
The design is meh but the story is way too god for anyone else besides zoe to defeat fiddle The only other champs i would mind beating fiddle are asol, pantheon, bard and maybe Mordekaiser who will just refuse to feel fear and attemt to make his soul into bricks for his castle
@@100tinka story can be god tier but you don't listen to her storys every day on a loop like its a spongebob episode no you play against a bland boring and uninterasting character whose selling point which is the demon is a snowglobe with water powers (when they said in the teasers that its a laughing jar i expected it to be something like the pot of greed if you know what that is) + the many hands thing pretty much means nothing but just a teaser that builds hype i wouldn't mind if her spells were water hand themed but no its just generic ass water with an ultimate that makes no sense
@@thefoxcreation3580 its not because she's confident, because that is her only emotion left. Imagine being force to be positive, you cannot show how you really feel because sadness, anger, or any other emotions are all gone.
@@neutralplayeroflol5722 But she does show how she really feels. She not only cannot show anything besides joy, it is the only emotion she can feel. It might sound horrible, but if you are affected by it, then it only horrible for the people around you, since you werent even able to feel guilty.
Camphor- misery Raum- secrets Nocturne- nightmare Atakhan- ruin Tybaulk (tibbers)- frenzy Evelynn- agony (seduces its victims while feeling pleasure to end them with agonizing pain)
Even if she says she knows how to kill fiddlesticks we don't know how hard it is to actually do it. I mean she can only feel joy so because of that i would guess she can easily overestimate herself? fear is a core concept in being wary and not overestimating yourself, so not being able to feel fear would probably in the long run lead to putting yourself at an disadvantage.
My hypothesis is that Fiddlesticks is only a lesser manifestation of the true primal demon of fear which is why she says she knows how to kill him. Nilah does seem to channel the demonic power of the Ashlash so it's possible she could also be considered equal to the fiddlesticks avatar she is threatening
I think that Aklash has the ability to infect Joy in the masses in order to control them and feed off the mayhem. The Seventh Layer counter that by being vectors for his power by enforcing a contract. The contract entails each hero sacrificing not only their name but their very existence in order to bind Ashlash. Upon making this contract, the hero is bound by the same laws as the demons: losing your name weakens you. This leads to the erosion of the contract over time and the need for a replacement. Nilah may have figured out that by giving herself a name and becoming a legend will secure her control of Aklash.
That's actually a very plausible thing. That could by why the Seventh Layer are made up of heroes, because they all willingly go into a contract with Ashlesh yet at the same time not a single member besides Nilah is even named.
I feel like there is a conection here with Stephen King's Stories, we have there 2 beings that feed on Emotions and are primal beings capable of consuming realities, one being Pennywise who feeds on Fear, and one being Dandelo who feeds on Laugher... one could argue Laughter is very similar to joy
I think the 10 primal demons covers all the major positive and negative emotions and they are the opposite of each other. fid and ashlash is a great example
I really wasn't sold at first on nilah. It was truly the pretty lady facade that kept me from caring further about her lore. But boy am I glad I actually did take a look at it. I LOVe that they've expanded the lore with the primal demons. And fiddlesticks has some amazing annilihistic existential lore that I just love.
Nileah being so obsessed with being remembered might later on be tempted to do something so bad she has to be remembered if she feels there is no Better option left
If she is forgotten it's probably kind of like that 1 Disney movie. I mean remember what I was saying about the pale man being the vulture. That is the final death. Kindred came at you while you live the vulture when your die. In some regards maybe this this is similar to how gods keep their power & it works the same way with spirit of any nature or rank
See, Nilah seems cool and all but what I’m looking forward to is the totally 100% confirmed logical choice by riot to implement a PvE gamemode for the star guardian event
There are ten primordial demons, and each of them feeds off of an emotion. Fiddle feeds of fear, Ashlesh (Nilah's demon) feeds of Joy. The hands have nothing to do with emotions.
what if the deal is if she cant be remember for her deeds in life and will be safe when she dies but if she's forgotten then her soul is taken by the demon
10:04 I have some theories and I need to talk about them now. When she says meet the demon, she could be revearing to what happened to yone. Maby, when people in runeterra die, they first have to overcome their demon to move on. Yone beat his, but got wounded himself, which is why he can't move on. Secondly, for quite a while now, I have been speculating that gray man, aka what kindred was before, could be the teased demon of delusion. Who in his madness over his loneliness tore himself in two. Let me know what your thoughts are? I need thinking input.
@@uzrdutiutfiztdf3545 no, the demons below fiddle were all born from him, with the azakana at the very bottom, meaning that Nocturne and Raum are technically fiddle's children
hey i was just watching it i was on 14:35 and i wonder can joy be the only feeling she can feel cuz her name was joy ?????? i mean something like cuz her name is joy she feels only joy (the demons fucking with her)
I'm guessing the writers are basing the demons from Carroll Izard Ten primary emotions. fear (1st king) anger shame contempt disgust guilt distress interest surprise joy (is he confirmed to be the 9th king or is he the 7th? something about him just screams 7th king to me) Now I kinda want to see what powers would humans gain from forming contracts with the other primordials.
What if Nilah is helping the demon by harvesting these souls…doing all of this dirty work…she feels nothing but joy and the one thing that keeps her going is the idea of being remembered…what if when she dies…her soul will be devoured and in turn she will be forgotten for all eternity…
My theory is that together with learning Ashlashs real Name coming with the power to control him, she choose it as her name. Nilah. The reason she doesn't want people to forget her, is so they can control Ashlash in the future. From a writing perspective cool, because she lost her name, or rather herself, in order to sacrifice her existince to provide others with the Name of Ashlash and such, a way to defeat him. Just a theory ofc
Cmon!! No interaction with Shaco? Really? Not a single crumb? This was perfect time to throw in some Demon line for Shaco and they still keep Shaco loreless...
@@Significantharrassment Shaco basically has no lore to speak of its an assumption that he is one of the 10 demons but he has no lore so we dont actually know what he is and i was kinda hoping she would have some kinda interaction with shaco that would build a bit on it. :(
@@ShinobiDaNinja I made the mega mind meme but okay, and you know I always thought that Shaco could be something like "The demon of Deceit" or "The puppeteer" who manipulates people into there demise and he actually feed from there disbelief or whatever you call it
@@Significantharrassment I kinda hope he is and If and when they ever decide to get to Shacos lore I hope they do it justice. A Demon of Deciet or trickery sounds perfect to the character, but it also would be nice to have him fit in some where with these other champions that just seeminly never run into him ever.
This is a one piece inspired character… somehow… fate? Perpetual joy? (Smiles) and the biggest one… "when does a person die?" She just feels like her lore was created by a one piece fan
Could you please revisit Swain's interactions video? There are some interesting theories that were true, other that not, and other that need further analysis with the new info that has been released
I wouldn't think too hard about the "Lord" thing, it's really common for demons in video games, like Diablo the lord of terror et c. Could just be a short way to say "demon lord".
