Featuring Thomas Paul Burgess (Ruefrex) this documentary can be viewed in collaboration with his books, 'The Contested Identity of Ulster Protestants (Palgrave Macmillan) & novel, 'White Church, Black Mountain' (Matador).
In the 1969 rehash of the I R.A, the Catholic church hijacked the movement along with the Presbyterian church with the Protestant para's who all the same, wouldn't accept the idea of British Catholics. Unlike the original fight for freedom, The Troubles were totally driven on religious lines.
I never understood any of the divisions along religious lines. I am Catholic, I attended Protestant schools and my principal, a reverend, even helped me learn off all those questions and stories you had to do for your confirmation. The priest asked me every, single, one whereas any of my mates in the Catholic school only memorised one question each and just stuck their hands up for the question they knew when the priest came around to test them. The principal was a lovely lady, good times back in those days.
@@bfc3057 Yes, I have been digging into history a bit since I posted this. Although I have only scratched the surface, I see a lot of parallels between Henry VIII/Cromwellian oppression of catholics right back to the execution of the last Abbott of Glastonbury and the lack of civil rights among catholics in NI in the 60's and the violence they were subjected to when they marched for equality. I was born only a few decades later, in the south, and the mentalities involved were always so alien, equality was a given for us and there were rarely ever issues. I can't imagine such hostilities or oppression only a few hundred kilometers away. It still bubbles under the surface now it seems but some day I hope that the anger and violence are mere memories of a past we have moved on from.
@@bfc3057 I hear what you are saying but I would rather not adopt a "leave them to it" attitude. I think support should be given to help people on either side of the argument to engage in peace and reconciliation, even if it is hard or being resisted. Outside of that, and Iam not saying reunification is a solution, but polling shows that attitude towards reunification is changing in the Psyche in the North. In 2013 17% were in favour of reunification. In 2016 is was 22%. In late 2020 it was 35% and now it is around 44%. I think any such talk around a vote is premature and not a great idea, at the moment certainly. The harder the stance of the Unionists and the harder the Brexit the more people are starting to think its a good idea. A soft Brexit might have saved British Union. Another sign of change is the DUP are losing some ground and the lost votes are split with majority going to the Alliance Party and the residual going to TUV. Finally, over time, demographics are changing. The number of people identifying as Unionist is declining, at some point they will naturally become a small minority in the North.
@@bfc3057 There is a lot of truth there and I share a lot of your concerns. I 100% agree that any sort of vote should be pushed out for a long, long time. However, I think in another 10 or 20 years it might be a different story and there will be enough to get a majority and the vote might happen then. You and I might think it should be another generation later than that, if at all, but the political pressure will be too great and questions will be raised about democracy and upholding the GFA and it will just happen and we will have to be ready for any consequences.
True enough. Paisley describes the result of two wars, followed by a small amount of emigration as 'genocide'. Whereas he could happily chum around with Loyalist hit-men for decades. I'd hate to ask for a packet of crisps in a flavour he doesn't like. 'I've seen women and children blown to pieces by bombs, and houses shot to fragments in revenge attacks by cold-blooded killers - but for you to ask me for *barbecue beef* Pringles... This is the most disgraceful crime against God-fearing Ulstermen it has ever been my misfortune to have my ears boiled and grated by, and your entrails will surely be roasted by Lucifer himself for this unfathomable provocation. Out demon, and take your minions with you!' (Etc). :)
I come from the south east of Ireland and we have a very significant protestant community in farming and business in particular. We all get on great and no one bats a bloody eyelid. We work, socialise, and do everything together. As Irish as the rest of us and make a great contribution to the Irish nation. Church of Ireland in particular are very quiet and reflective
It wasn't always like that though was it, my family where forced of land they cultivated for near 300 years, there several attempts to murder my Great Grandfather, the family moved to Fermanagh, then on to Belfast, they came from the Monaghan area. We still have relatives in Drum. was there last year for the Drum picnic...great day out...
@@timber8403 good point, as was Wolfe Tone. Here in wicklow, quite a sizeable, quiet, secretive protestant community. Almost enviable, how they look out for ome another, whereas most of us Catholics don't have this community feel just because they're of the same sect! They do seem to have a little bit of a Monopoly over some property and business, but i suppose that's not surprising considering they're families roots usually.
@@ninjacat4929 point is it mattered so little, we didn t even become aware of it till after she died n she was in a different cemetery. And even then, we didn t care.
@@zigababnik8780 Her older friends knew she was protestant. I didn t as a child because it mattered so little to us. She was well loved on the street. My grandparents were staunch Catholics but had no problem with US being looked after by her st times.
@@zigababnik8780 fear of what? You never hear of any hate towards Protestants in the republic. They get along with their lives like everyone else. The biggest orange march in Ireland is in donegal. No one gives them any trouble.
My school in the north was Catholic and there were so many protestants. In my particular class I actually think there were slightly more protestants. Religion never an issue and never really noticed most of the time.
@Steph2020 Jane I'll reply to u further. It's late in NZ where I live but I did leave home at 14 and went to state primary school and always hung out with Catholic lads. Did play gaa a little. Fully supported Meath in gaa sports. Heart green. There was no gaa when Wolftone was around. I fully embrace my Catholic brother's culture just not religion. I'm Irish. . My family have been there for 400 years. I think it makes me Irish! 😂
Me too, we were one of only five Protestant families living on the infamous Andersonstown Estate in the 50's and 60's before the troubles. I'm 73 now and always called myself an Irishman answer a proud Antrim man. I even went to see Antrim play Gaelic games at Casement Park.
Growing up in the republic, I never saw division on religious lines despite the division of the education systems and it was comparable to Britain in the same regard. As ROI move slowly towards a more pluralistic education system any perceivable differences will disparate still further. The Irish flag encapsulates the Green and Orange joined together by the white of peace and I hope that my lifetime this will be fully achieved.
A significant number, even now, baulk at the very thought of Eire adding a colour to their flag and as they would say today tone deaf claiming it represents them. That being the case, what now ?
@@jintsfan I hope I understood you correctly. The Orange in the existing ROI flag would not represent Ulster in a united Ireland? It’s my opinion that the people of ROI would easily concede a change in flag for a United Ireland but most wouldn’t see the point. People in every county are different. Identities won’t change.
@@jintsfan not selling anything. If some folk want to continue teaching their children hatred and bigotry on whatever side, it’s no skin of my nose. The people of the south will simply get on with ignoring that shite, much the same as they do on mainland UK.
Edward Carson was a unionist who thought Ireland was better off in the UK and found out that the British government used him for their own means he wasn't sectarian and ended up asking himself what have I done to Ulster what have I done to Ireland realised his mistake too late and northern Ireland payed the price.
These days Protestants have increased in number in the Republic, making up 4% of the population, and there's a significant population, 15%, who eschew religious identification.
This is an excellent video that reflects the mundane reality and not the drama that usually dominates the media. It would be great if this reaches a wide audience, particularly in the US where many have a misinformed understanding of Ireland.
When Iived in Kerry during the 80s there was lots of Protestants especially in towns like Killorglin. I worked with them and there was no problem. Everyone got on fine.
I'm a Church Of Ireland Protestant living in Northern Ireland. My now retired former Minister, Canon Kenneth Kingston, was born in Co Cork in or near Bandon (I'm not too sure which). It was interesting to hear his Surname mentioned in the Bandon part of the video. He is a well spoken man with a neutral accent ie you wouldn't think he was born in Co Cork. Leaving the fact that he is a retired Church Of Ireland rector to one side you couldn't meet a nicer gentleman.
There are lots of Kingstons in Cork. I'm from Galway, but whenever I hear that surname, I think that the person must be from Cork or at least have Cork connections.
Times have changed. Growing up in the 60s and 70s as a southern Protestant, I remember the ‘heads down’ mentality and being told I was not Irish because of the school I went to. Roll on four or five decades and Ireland has shrugged off the theocracy and become a country I am proud to be a citizen of. Where our northern cousins then had a point about Home Rule being Rome Rule and the south being poor, it is no longer true. The social conservatism in the Unionist community in NI mirrors that which still exists in some rural area in the south. Ireland was the first country in the world to have a popular vote legalising gay marriage and recently had an openly gay man as its Prime Minister. Ireland is prosperous as well as open minded whereas the north is an economic basket case due in part to the trouble, in part to the neglect of the Celtic regions of the UK and the north of England over the same time period.
Hasn't Ireland been a theocracy for 500 years. First under the Protestant Church of Ireland ( who were savages) then under the Catholic Church. Both denominations are of course imports to Ireland.
@@bluechip297 I would hardly call Ireland a theocracy today. Between the 1930s and 1990’s it was. After the Battle of the Boyle, people were respectively advantaged or disadvantaged economically by virtue of the faith they proclaimed. The world then, Ireland, England included was a more conservative place but not more so than other western countries and certainly nothing like Islamic states. Divorce was taboo, contraception was not medicine based and abortion likewise and women had few rights. Happily times have changed and in Europe the churches role is reduced to spiritual guidance and does not involve control of peoples’ lives as it once did.
@@RobertK1993 The Protestants, or at least the Anglican ones as the established church certainly lorded it over the Catholics and Presbyterians during the time of the penal laws. Even when abolished that still left them with advantages which persisted for a while. Northern Ireland was set up as a sectarian state in which Catholics were discriminated against. My experience in the south was of a small community that kept its head down at a time the Catholic Church was telling the national broadcaster what it could and could not broadcast and kept politicians in a tight grip. It was a time also that the Protestant community declined as a result of migration back to the UK of families who had been in Ireland as colonial officers and others who did not see a future in De Valera’s Catholic Ireland of the 1930s-1950s. But as I said in my first post, the country has been transformed by prosperity. I could add that the grip of the Catholic Church and the political monopoly of Fianna Fáil has been broken, probably for good, as a result of respectively sexual and abuse scandals and pedophile priest and running the country into the ground in the financial crisis. Ireland is a modern pluralist open minded and prosperous country and very very different to what it was even 40 years let alone 80 years ago.
I'm glad to hear that. As an Irishman a couple of decades younger to me my Protestant friends are no different to the Catholics or the atheists. Bit of joking about the school sports teams but I wouldn't even think to question what religion someone is.
'Notice that Paisley used the word'eliminated' instead of 'forced out' to suggest that they were all murdered instead. The journalist in the original interview I remember, called him out on this and Paisley backtracked to a slight degree but tried as far as possible to make out they were threatened with death if they stayed. A few of them might have been but the vast majority decamped to Britain or the Six Counties wehre they could still be 'top dogs' at least in their own minds ...
@@MsRustynuts It depends where you were in the north. Protestant farmers in the border counties had a terrible time. There was violent ethnic cleansing of protestants in those areas. Many people have no idea about it. Of course, overall, most Catholics and Protestants got on well with their neighbours. Always just the minority causing trouble. Personally, I don't mind one bit what denomination or religion anyone is. I just like nice people!
@@peacehope7365 True they did. But it was from local republican gangs not state authorised. They could always depend on the protection of the police force and the B specials. Who could the catholics turn to or depend on??? When the state sponsored RUC and B specials were the ones killing them !!
I understand their fears. This country was a theocracy. I think the situation is changed so much that Ulster Protestants may feel more confident about joining a united Ireland. Secular pluralist state
It's still a big step for Protestants. The biggest obstacle is probably Sinn Fein. But then the vast majority of people in the Republic hate them anyway.
@@bfc3057 The GDP of Ireland is €600bn with a population of 4.5m. NI is very suppressed economically it has a GDP of €50bn and a population of 1.8m. Not overnight, but overtime, the economic growth would balance out and the economy of the North would double and it would be able to pay for itself again. Northern Ireland used to produce a surplus budget back in the day, it hasn't done so in a number of decades because it has been left behind by Britain
@@bfc3057 30% of NI work in public sector this can be restructured to avoid duplication across the island and cut expenditure. €10bn is small beans in relation to the total economy. Ireland is paying €30bn this year for covid benefits. German economist Kurt Hubner put forward a model suggesting the the adoption of the Irish tax system, greater openness to foreign direct investment and reduced trade barriers within a united Ireland would see the six counties catch up over a period. Consultancy Capital Economics also published a paper showing reunification to be more affordable than many people think.
@@bfc3057 I have no agenda when it comes to Northern Ireland. I appreciate that your view is a personal view, which you are entitled to. I look at data from published sources and call out the trend, it isn't what I would like to see happen, its just what the numbers point to. I do a similar activity for my actual job and I tend to be right more often than I am wrong. Just curious before I let you go. Where are you getting 50% of NI workers are in public sector? I have data 2008 that says 30.8%. I have a 2020 House of Common briefing paper containing Office of National Statistics data that shows this dropped to 25%, still the highest in Britain. London has the lowest share of workers employed in the public sector in Britain at 14%.
Those of us who have,protestant and Gaelic heritage of Donegal like the 100 million others of Irish blood are no less Siol nan Gael, 32 counties nation,real Christian's,see we are all sinners, what is in the past, peace rules NOW. IT'S the way a God would like it.
@@ninjacat4929 At this videos 2.20 mark. It was written on the entry to Bandons’ sign in west Cork. Where it once stayed ‘The Turk or the Jew may enter here but not the papist’ That’s a pretty insightful statement. No wonder it got such a reply in other words anyone may enter but not a Catholic, it’s no bad reflection on Turks or Jews just hatred toward the natives...if it were not so sad it would be funny.
Paisley pedalling his old inflammatory blood and thunder ...using words like "eliminated and Genocide".....feigning righteousness. .while stoking the flames of sectarian hatred.... his language costed lives I'm sure in the north...
I don't know how this got into my feed, perhaps because of my interest in the Scottish Borders, but despite the surname I am the grandson of Fenians on both sides of my family. That said - this is the the most fascinating thing that I have seen on the subject since my introduction to real Irish history in college. Thank you very much, what a great series!
I wish all protestant Unionist and Pro Monarchy people who were born and live in the Republic of Ireland can freely express their identity without harassment.
@@Kazby78 The people born in Northern Ireland which is part of the United Kingdom are British. Therefore they are British. Keep twisting your logic. It will eventually lead to your dementia.
It's a shame that people can't just get along. Why get hung up on titles and labels. I have met people from both sides who are incredibly narrow minded yet I try to treat others as they treat me. There was butchering done on both sides and denying it won't help anyone. Be mindful of the past, but don't let it blinker your future.
As an outsider I don't get the rub. Seems its the 21st century is about time people set religion aside and let the few embittered carry on if they must. It doesn't make anyone happy or prosperous.
Its not really about religion. The reality is that the conflict in the north, at its core has more to do with nationalism, imperialism and state sponsored discrimination than anything else. The religious aspect is more a fallout of these things.
There are more than a few embittered people on this island. Over 50 years of terrorism saw to that. Finding someone on both sides in the North that hasn't lost a loved one because of it is surprisingly hard.
This is incredibly interesting. I’m from the North East of England and have been raised Catholic. This isn’t that unusual in Teesside and my Dad was from the North West where Catholics probably form the majority in Lancashire. I had many friends from Northern Ireland in University, Protestants and Catholic. I found it very strange when I went over there and found weird as an English Catholic how politics were tied in to religion (probably shouldn’t have gone over during the 12th of July in hindsight!). That being said every loyalist/republican/Irish from the South etc were some of the friendliest, loyal and most decent people I’ve ever been lucky enough to know. Hope we can one day get over all of this, both nations and both denominations.
One of my best friends is a Protestant from East Belfast, amazing guy but one thing about him is he’s massive into that anti Catholic stuff, I asked him why do you hate them so much? He just said they hate us and we hate them that’s the way it is, I’ve never understood it but then again we’ve been raised completely different so there’s no point in me trying to understand, hopefully one day he can realise it’s all bullshit and change his opinion.
Hi Eliana, I've 2 passports, Irish & UK. I'm allowed to have these as this was agreed in the peace settlement in N.Ireland. What about you? Is Herrera a Spanish name? :-)
@@kenperry6379. Saying “My Grandparents we are Protestants from Dublin” doesn’t actually make sense in English, but saying “my grandparents were Protestants from Dublin”, makes sense if they left, or are dead, and the grandchildren don’t live there anymore................
The first president of Ireland, Douglas Hyde, was a Protestant, elected by a majority Catholic electorate. Erkine Childers Protestant and president of Ireland elected by a Catholic majority. There are no clerics in the Irish parliament,there are many clerics in the Westminster parliament. The British head of state is also head of a church. Ones faith is no bar to high office in Ireland. In Britain a Catholic may not be prime minister or head of state.
Any religion can be prime minster daisraeli a jewish convert to Church of England changed the law when he became prime minster in 1800s barring anyone but Church of England from even being an MP so I would check your facts only a Protestant can be a member f the royal family and hold title ie queen,king,prince,princess so you got that right.
The Republic's founders made a huge mistake in enshrining Catholicism into state law. The North split off, and London Rule was replaced with Rome Rule. So much for "independence".
@@bfc3057 I worked in Guinness in Dublin. My father did for 40 years. Until the unions got in there in the 60s Catholics got nowhere. Always wondered why Irish people made Guinness the national drink. Ignorance I suppose.
@@bfc3057 when I started working in accountancy in the early 70s there were still distinctively Protestant firms. The biggest was Stokes Brothers and Pim. I remember that there was great amazement when they emerged with the very Catholic Kennedy Crowley. The same applied to some solicitors firms. One friend of mine told me he was the first Protestant to be made a partner in one large firm. An accountancy firm I later worked for used to pay its Protestant articled clerks £100 a year more than its Catholic ones. That sort of thing was pretty much all gone by the end of the 70s.
Very interesting… Our neighbours in Tralee back in the sixties were Protestants, not that I knew or cared until I was in my teens & when I did find out I carried on not caring, so what? Paisley calmed down a wee bit towards the end of his life but he came out with some bigoted rot & nonsense in his ranting days. It’s so good to know everybody for the most part just gets along these days & those who don’t will soon die off & good riddance to their anger & hate. Live & let live.
@@197615july no we don’t and you didn’t hear that. You heard “ I believe in the holy Catholic Church the communion saints and the life everlasting.” You I presume are a Roman Catholic ? The Catholic Church in the church of Ireland means Christian. You I believe are a Roman Christian. I do agree that they are very similar but very different beliefs. We r both Christian
But why? As a comparison: Kurdish people in the north of Iraq are not Iraqi, they are Kurdish. Plastic states and border lines don't make people groups spring into existence. The culture, traditions and way of the people is much more meaningful than that.
Paisley blames everyone except himself . All he ever did was speak hatred with his venomous speeches of his seething manic abhorrents of Catholics and popery ....You could never question him with any facts .. He,d shout you down , wouldn't let you get a word in .
This may come as a shock to Protestants and Catholics but most English people don’t give a damn about N Ireland. Most of us will just be happy to see the island of Ireland at peace with no English involvement. As in Ireland now, we don’t bloody care, the troubles are in the past, the sooner N Ireland votes to join the Irish Republic the better in our opinion. You are fighting against the future the Catholics are going to outnumber you in a decade or so, best thing to do is to start planning for a future with Eire now!
Partitioning Ireland was a huge mistake. No wonder Carson had regrets. He never wanted partition. It’s hard to see how the damage done to northern Protestants by partition can be fixed. They are now so badly marginalised.
My great great grandfather left Northern ierland for canada in 1910. He was a protestant Presbyterian republican. He was torn between his irishness (he was a gealic speaker), his desire for a free ierland, and his neighbors persecuting him for not being a loyalist. (Many of them also Presbyterians themselves). The family story goes that he smuggled a bunch of guns into the north for the Republicans. sold his family shop in bellfast and got enough money to buy three 3rd class tikets for Canada and for some land , one for himself, one for his eldest son, and one for his very pregnant wife (who had her baby on the voyage over). Once they arrived in canada, they made their way to Albert and bought a chunk of farm land. They had one more son (my great grandfather) shortly after he volunteered to go and fight for Canada in WW1 (1914) he served until 1917 when he was mustard gased on the front lines he spent most of the rest of the war in the hospital and was sent home in early 1918. Having survived his injuries, he lived into his 90s long enough to have spent time with my grandfather as a child. Even here in canada, my protestant family has always followed the troubles, believing that ierland should be united and free (regardless of faith, we are all Christians). Although the republican Irish having allied themselves with the Palestinians in recent years has been a subject of conversation and distress around the family dinner table. Do people not understand that Muslims hate Christians regardless of whether you are a protestant or a Catholic. In Palestinian Palestinian christians are persecuted and murdered on the regular
people in the south of Ireland have moved past religious identity for the most part Ireland has become multicultural over the last 20 years and we are a world away from when is documentary took place the idea that religion is what keeps north and south divided is nonene simply put unionists and loyalists in the north will always have this abhor its there nature and they will do anything to appose a united Ireland no matter what 20 years later its not about a question of religion its something else it will always be something else we have changed we have embraced liberalism that's what unlimitedly will give way to a united Ireland as the republic becomes more free younger people in the north will want the same freedoms
My great grand parents came from stoke Newington in London to cork in 1889 i am very irish but my lineage is English IRELAND needs to be one not divided but one nation
As a Scot who had a low key Christian upbringing in the Church of Scotland the reformed church, to me the Church of Ireland & the Church of England are kid on Protestants, we Scots were the real deal. 🤪 The United Irishmen had many Presbyterians & I for one salute them. We are all Jock Tampson's bairns & I have never known an Irish person that made me unwelcome because of my upbringing, great & kind people who'd share their last piece of bread with a total stranger no matter where they came from in the world.
Paisley was wrong on the schools completely- the Irish state was/is extremely accommodating to the sensitivities and needs of southern Protestants with the subvention of Protestant secondary school which are predominantly few paying private schools. This was rightly done to allow COI parents have a choice in where to educate their kids rather than forcing them into catholic ethos s state schools
Listen all a big change coming to N.Ireland, Region out the window, People power forward to secure the future. no more dup, shin fin, Fresh thinking, New world
many churches used to be Catholic, they were taken by the british and made into Anglican churches, I believe they shouldn't be Catholic nor should they be Anglican, they should be a new church, a fresh start for irish Christians to unite with no bad blood and worship in these churches under the original celtic Church we had free from Rome
@@jimbob4537 yes the church in rome did have a part in it but its known that many irish Christians didn't follow catholic theology completely. Ireland not being catholic enough was a large excuse for the original Anglo-Norman invasion
No hate for protestants here really . One of our greatest was Wolfe Tone. Here in wicklow, quite a sizeable, quiet, secretive protestant community. Almost enviable, how they look out for ome another, whereas most of us Catholics don't have this community feel just because they're of the same sect! They do seem to have a little bit of a Monopoly over some property and business, but i suppose that's not surprising considering they're families roots usually.
That's a little simplistic Michael. Thousands left for the North and UK. Those who remained went underground. This was a Catholic state for Catholic people. Thank heavens things are much changed today.
ruefrex Were they burned out of their houses and streets they lived in? Were they discriminated against in work? Guiness factory were still discriminatory against RC's. My uncle was the first Catholic to be made a foreman in the early 50's. My aunt was a nurse in Gascoigne Hse a planter hospital in Dublin, it still has in its constitution that no RC could be treated.
Look Michael, everybody has a story. I grew up in Belfast throughout the troubles. I have plenty of stories regarding terrible atrocities inflicted on people because of their religion. Your kind of one-sided, myopic over simplistic analysis of 'goodies' and' baddies' is frankly dangerous and drags us back into hate fueled bias. 'Planters' FFS! Move on or keep this bile off this forum.
I am Protestant and my family never went underground so quit generalizing across the board. As well Anglo-Irish gentry kept their big homes etc. Yes the RC religion was dominant but they didn't carry out any whole scale persecution of others. Unlike the English when they were in charge, or did you forget about that part.
The problem is the line between fact and propaganda is significantly blurred in the video, it’s hard to see the lived experience from the political discourse.
Isn't it funny that even after we peel away the religious bigotry of both sides we still have the stark division. Maybe it was never really about religion and maybe the 2 state solution is the best solution for this wee island.
You did not convey to me the big picture of how religious affiliation denotes a separate and isolated social order fortunately as a listener I know the background perhaps the overdubbing of a narator using Received Pronunciation to address a wider audience
It’s a nonsense you need Irish language to work in the public sector. It was a nonsense at the time of the documentary and it remains so. Interesting show there is an obvious agenda being pushed with Paisley, as always , such a matter should be down to historians not politicians.
@@barry5356 that’s weird man cos the boss of the Gardai is Protestant and doesn’t speak Irish, Minister Humpries is Protestant her family Orangemen doesn’t speak Irish. Greatest head of the civil service in the state an NIreland man didn’t have Irish (in the 70s i might add), First President Protestant, state pathologist from UK her Deputy a Muslim. Many civil servants in the current age are New Irish hailing from across the Globe, any religion and none, you think they know the Irish language? But if you have any more proof I am all ears? Sounds like you listen to too much nonsense. When people spout lies as truth they build their house on a foundation of sand. www.publicjobs.ie/en/?catid=0&id=39
@Barry...Speaking as a once practicing Catholic southerner, no one down here gives a rats arsh what religion you are. Since the sexual abuse scandals in the church you’d be hard pressed to meet anyone.. bar the odd Jahovha Witness who is still religious. Walk into any church any day and only a few rows are occupied and all have grey hair. There are many English living down here and their our best friends no one even asks anymore do you even have a religion. Maybe someday NI will be the same and we can all find some well earned peace and enjoy each others individually.
You probably couldn't blame protstant's for been suspicious of the new free state anything could have happened then develara made a special relationship with the catholic church which probably made them more cautious thankfully now things have changed alot scence then and catholic's and protestant's are actually starting to talk about these things simply because the suspicions and fears have left both sections of the community in the republic.
Mm 2 quick points: (1) held in the Ulster Museum collections they have a 19th c LOL banner. What is unusual about it is that it is completely "as Gaelige" (in Irish)!! And (2) with the Republic's GDP now much higher than NI (a complete reverse of the 1950s etc), there are some down South - even if a majority up North voted to some form of unity (federation, confederation or whatever etc) who don't at all want at all any from up there!!
Ironic that the protstant from the republic wasn't excepted by northern protestants he wasn't appreciated by people in the republic for wanting a pluralist Ireland as many Catholics did put hopefully we've managed that now
When you divide and conquer a country. Then it's obvious that Ppl of both traditions will be stuck on both sides of the border that's been created to divide Ppl. But when Ireland is reunited. Both traditions will not be treated badly like they where before partion.
Just admit that the the Scot's who went home to northern Ireland have just as much rights as the southern Irish,who to be honest are really English people who settled most of Ireland,you can tell a real Irishman just by looking at him.They look like shane McGovern.
So figures are always very interesting to look at. If you look at protestantism in the 26 counties....it was already declining under british rule. Catholics had more kids than protestants. which is what changed those figures. Many protestants left the 26 counties after 1922 but there was no pogroms or anything like that. In a way if you were protestant in the 26 counties you were still better off than most catholics.
Check your stats. Mate. 17 or 19 %. Protestants at partition , that has fallen to around 2%. There certainly were pograms and ethnic cleansing through violence and freezing out business burning homes etc ........ Largest movement of population in Europe outside of the holocaust and the war in the Balkans. Wake up to yourself mate ........
@@shamrock1196 ah lad come on now thats pure indoctrination. Read a few sources there. I am full aware that the new irish state that set up in 1923 was not great. In reality irish society was quite backwards until the late 80s. However it is completely untrue to say there was some sort of pogrom. There is no historical source that claims this. The first president of Ireland was a protestant. There was a second one later on as well. There were also many protestants involved in the war of independence movement. If you go back to the early 1800s the protestant population had already started declining in many irish counties especially dublin. This increased at the end of the 1800s as the british government started supporting th catholic church. After 1923 many military men left and many of those were protestant. There were many who left for fear of attack. However, there was no major attack on protestants living in the 26 counties. Many converted through marriage as well. I would like to state that I am fully aware the new Irish state was backward and didn't advance much for Irish people at all. However, there was no sanctioned discrimination against protestants. In reality most protestants in the 26 counties most likely had better lives than catholics. I know the state set itself up as a cathoic state but in reality this only impacted on the catholic population. Protestants had there own schools and a different way of life to an extent. There were
@@dubmait indoctrination more your bag than mine pal . Your in complete denial , look up your own history and part you people played in etnic cleansing ... feel sad for u
@@shamrock1196 became and english speaking catholic state after 1923, and not much really changed. Most of the old british system was kept in place The catholic church was actually quite happy under british rule. They enjoyed a privilege status in the late 1800s. Your un willingness to interact and show me sources, shows me that you really just want to stick to what you have always been told, and not learn new things. In the republic of Ireland it is very true that kids do not get the full history of Ireland, now this is true everywhere really. But yes it is interesting to learn when you leave school about how history is not so black and white. We did just as much damage to our own culture as the british did after independence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Irish_nationalists#:~:text=Protestant%20nationalists%20(or%20patriots%2C%20particularly,of%20Ireland%20from%20Great%20Britain.&text=All%20the%20various%20denominations%20of,had%20members%20involved%20in%20nationalism.
@@shamrock1196 In general the population of the irish state decline until 1991. So catholics left Ireland in great numbers too. I understand that many protestants left because they did not feel comfortable in a new Catholic state. I would also admit that during the civil war in 1922-23, some protestants were attacked in sectarian violence. However, the two pro treaty side and the anti treaty side did more horrible things to each other, and they massively damaged the new state as a result of the civil war. It is completely false to say there were pogroms. Simply put the 26 counties weren't postively viewed and many protestants left both before 1923 and after. I have already send you a graph showing the protestant decline began in 1870. It did accelerate in 1906, as home rule got close, and then a further acceleration in 1923 when the new free state came in. I would be more than happy to continue a dialogue about this, however my impression is that you don't have much interest in communicating logically, and just want to paint the new irish state as protestant killers. In reality I am no fan of the new irish government that started in 1923. It was a pretty backward place until Sean lemass became taoiseach in 1959, and even then it too ages to modernise. We did so much damage to our own people really, and that is something that should be taught in schools
I love the way people twist history I am from Derry was in the defence forces in the eighties sure I wouldn’t have got a job in government because I didn’t speak Irish and I am a nationalist speaking Irish in government was because people who did speak Irish had a right too be addressed in irish that’s all sure English is the spoken tongue are commands were in Irish and you learned them and battered on your way 😊
This is not quite accurate. Less than 1% of Irish people speak Irish on a daily basis and that includes those working in the public service. It is optimistically estimated that around 150,000 people, in Ireland, speak Irish fluently, representing about 3% of the total population and about 7% of the adult population.
Look Michael, everybody has a story. I grew up in Belfast throughout the troubles. I have plenty of stories regarding terrible atrocities inflicted on people because of their religion. Your kind of one-sided, myopic over simplistic analysis of 'goodies' and' baddies' is frankly dangerous and drags us back into hate fueled bias. 'Planters' FFS! Move on or keep this bile off this forum.
How is planter an offensive term? They are descendants of the people who were "planted" here during the "plantation". I could think of a lot worse things to be called to be fair.
People have been coming and going from Scotland to Ireland and vise versa for thousands of years.I believe for peace Ulster needs independence from Westminster and Dublin so both communities are happy.
This is very interesting. My grandfather was a Methodist from Dublin and my grandmother was a Catholic from London. Turns out he had to pay money and 'convert' for the marriage to be legitimate in the 'eyes of God'.
the 10 % to 2,5 % is a false misleading figure . As said it is taken from 1911 many prosetants died in 1st world war also at partition many from cavan monaghan and donegal would have relocated north. Many british army families and civil servents would have returned home to england , This idea that they were targeted or forced out is not true.
Same as the Jewish people in the north, most of the young migrated to cities in the UK and US with bigger Jewish populations so they could get married in the faith. Kim Catrall the saucy one from Sex in the City is a descendant of Irish Jewish emigres. That being said, anti semitism did exist in the Irish republic, reached it's zenith with Owen O'Duffy and his 'blue shirts'
That’s an interesting question, I guess much like norn Iron Jews they gravitated towards bigger centers of Jewishness, there was a small community in Cork and Dublin but i understand it emigrated or Israel over a few generations. You should look into the history too DeValera had a chance to save hundreds of displaced Central European Jews in the 1930/40s. To my mind he stuck disgustingly rigidly to neutrality on that front especially as he was allowing stranded British soldiers return to UK but imprisoning Nazi Germans.(rightly). The state should have took in the refugees no doubt. I never heard they had a presence in every town, have you any links to that? Thanks
@@thesaintirl that’s an interesting comment. I don’t doubt he spent some part of his later years thinking about that up in the Aras. I guess we were quite an ignorant state at that time. I believe a Jewish community does exist in this country & of course they are welcome like anyone else.
@@Paul5520 as a nation we had much to learn, it was clear the State was petrified of involvement in WW2 aka the emergency. RTE radio 1 did a doc on Jews in Ireland a few years back you should have a look for it. But I do not accept there was ever a campaign nor policy nor any evidence in the State to drive out religious minorities as suggested by some comments and indeed in the video itself. I think unionism likes to believe the Republic was a mirror of the North this is clearly a thread in the video with more time given to NIreland political players than Southern Protestants. If you watch the second part, which you should, you can see the interviewer trying to railroad school children into the unionist narrative, I found the retort entertaining.
Unless we’re born again we will not see the kingdom or enter the kingdom of God . The Protestants and Catholics all need a savior and their sins forgiven. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be forgiven and saved for eternal life with the Lord Jesus Christ forevermore
Eire Mac Aodhagain rossnowlagh county Donegal the only place in the republic which holds a orange walk lodges from Cavan Monaghan and Donegal its 98% so another lying anti Protestant bigot
Eire Mac Aodhagain here's a fact for you in the village of drum in Monaghan there is no Catholics no chapels no GAA no Catholics haha lol what a total liar where's your facts now shit for brains
Ok.. So there is no Lodge in Donegal !! Yes there is one in Cavan and Monaghan. If you read my last comment correctly you will see I said Donegal. The term Chapel was always used by Protestants so do you not have a Chapel in Monaghan??? Yes that is correct there is no Catholic church or GAA club there. You finally got something correct.
I'm proud of Ireland today same sex marriage women's issues all voted for by the people live and let live region divides us all ..all has changed for the better for people
You mean you hate Gods laws because they make you look at yourself . But you have freewill and Gods laws are there to help you in your fallen nature not to punish you
when there is a united Ireland absolutely nothing will happen to those in the protestant community. Or even those in the loyalist for that matter there is no one that gives two hoots what religion or what marches you want to go on.
One thing not mentioned is the fact of Race. Anglo Irish are not Irish they are of Germanic stock, they have no connection to the Gaels , or the heritage. No offence to them thier citizens and non participatory in the new Ireland. They have a long history of Race War against the Irish and it has taken them a long time to realise without the support of the Brit State there is nothi g interesting or special about them.
My family which for a few hundred years lived down south was forced out of the nation by the IRB at the time hanging a man off a tree in there front yard. My mate which still lives down south whos a unionist prod is still under threat by the Ira its a sad type of attacuide that most folks seem to have. Mind ye not only prods being threatend my catholic mate almost got done it for being unionist.... God save us all
