I also feel like this obsession with being able to draw without references is fairly new and misses the fact that all great artists throughout history have used references like they’re going out of style. They even *gasp* traced!
I have to admit,its my obsession lol. I always have to remind myself that the most amazing art to me, uses references, all of my favorite artists, use references for some reason I've been convinced the ultimate way to draw is without reference or guidelines like a madman
Drawing without refs would be a massive flex and I think the one time I did draw w/out a reference I got praised for it so like… something inside of me was like “I gotta do that again” Or it could be me too lazy to look for a good ref lol 😅 idfk
I think (for me) it's more like "childhood dream" and getting into using to references is like growing. At some point you just grow up and accept your defeat as an adult lol
I mean some of the greatest artists in our history when you get down to it were tracers. They used a reflective device that would mirror and reflect an object they were looking at onto the canvas or paper and then trace what they saw. Tracing itself is actually a good way to practice when you're still fairly new, it helped me a lot when I was younger, just don't ever pass off a traced work as being yours. It should be a practice tool only
I avoided using references for the longest time in middle-high school unless I was specifically learning something, and then I realized "wait, I like learning these things though" and that broke whatever block I'd put up. References are goated. Love those guys.
😅I don't think you know what a reference is. A reference is anything that you want to take information out to use for your artwork. You could use it to get design elements ir for anatomy refreshment. Freehand is when you make use of the information you have learned so far--that being breaking things down into its basic elements. You don't remember muscle groups in whole images, but in its parts and their behaviours. UPPER ARM EG: 1) cylinder, but tapering towards the end. 2) When flexed, the biceps bulge closer to the trunk to flex, and the tricep to the elbow to relax. Then vice versa when relaxed. 3) The arm has a chain-like 3d structure. Using that information, you can freehand (using fundamentals) without the use of a reference. Additionally, using references without knowing WHAT youre looking for and without foreknowledge of fundamentals is inefficient.
I draw exclusively without reference and they always look great. The bad ones just don't count, I was just messing around and wasn't trying. My mind wasn't up for it. I used the wrong brush. The software was holding me back.
for me it's the opposite. unless i am deciding to draw literally everything the same from a reference, i can't simply use it. and even then, i need my phone to be as close to the paper as possible so that i can copy the picture. i can't use references, yet i am able to somewhat draw from memory, though not fully.
I’m the type who can only draw without a reference since it seems like an impossible feat to incorporate the reference into your art rather than just mapping it out normally, lol
Where do u guys find ur references? I’m no good at drawing but I enjoy it and I can’t ever tell where the line between copying and referencing is if that makes sense. For example, is tracing over or recreating a pose and drawing your own character on it considered copying or is that referencing? Sorry if this is a stupid question idk what I’m doing lol
imo using a reference isn’t “cheating” but not using references isn’t “subpar” either. personally I grew up as an artist without references and whenever I start trying to use em it looks really uncanny… so they ain’t for me, but I’m always jealous of artists who use em well :)
Same here, like other artists that I know are jealous that I can draw without them but like...I can't draw with a reference to save my life and they can so there's that (I'm jealous of them too lol)
You may be relying too hard to replicate your references rather than taking what you need from them to suit your work (I do that lol). "Subpar" isn't the best word to use,,, but it's not entirely wrong. There's many things our human brain will try to interpret/remember that just aren't accurate and definitely missing detail. Just as everyone has a different study method, very few prodigy can use their memory as well as a picture, so it's not much of a service to yourself to avoid em References can be used for a LOT. Color study, composition, style inspiration, etc. Really, this isn't to dig at you but begging to reconsider and learn to love your references. They 100% change the game when you find your flow
@@hotmamma2126 I appreciate the thoughtful reply :) I think there might be some miscommunication between my definition of “reference” and yours, to me it seems like what you’re describing (using pictures to study color, composition, anatomy, etc) is what I would define as taking inspiration or learning from an image, which I do all the time. I def agree that that type of thing counts as “using references,” but my comment was mostly geared toward the “reference” practice I see more often, which is copying poses from pictures. Probably the reason I see that so much is because I’m a cartoon artist who talks mostly to cartoon artists lol. another important thing is that the style I mostly use just isn’t supposed to be an effort to conform to reality. When I’m trying to create enough art to produce a graphic novel, I’m using simple colors, simplified anatomy, etc, and i dont need or want to try to make everything look perfect and accurate. The knowledge I’ve built up on anatomy, color, and composition over my many years of “learning from images” (probably counts as references anyway) is usually enough. Nevertheless when I’m working on more detailed illustrations or trying to push my art further, I bet you’re right, more comprehensive ref use would do me a lot of good sooo I’ll probably never be part of the “always use references” crowd, but I guess I’m not exactly part of the “I don’t need to use references” crowd either. sorry for the long reply lol, a lot of this was honestly a way for me to understand my own thoughts on all this
if Araki Hirohiko created some of the most iconic poses by referencing greek and vogue poses and still got his jjba artworks to be displayed at the louvre then every person who says references are bad can chohkonadik
@@AmberShaktii that's such a bad idea, AI can't tell when the anatomy's off and using it as a reference makes you transfer the mistake into your work... Not to mention generative AI steals from other artists!
Same bro, my anatomy is kinda shit, I don’t really understand the human structure that well, so basically I just try imagine it and keep editing until it looks right
What's important is building a sufficient mental library so you don't need to look at references every time you draw. Your initial illustrations didn't turn out like you wanted because you didn't have enough skills to draw from imagination. I say don't make a habit of basing your art on references. Instead, learn from it, by studying how things interact and how each element creates a good image.
I have to admit... as an artist, for at least 2 weeks, I traced hands so I could understand them. and looked at other hands drawn by other artists. same goes for facial expressions... if I haven't done that, I would have still been absolutely TERRIBLE at drawing hands.... and faces
@@frogsquared7867 you can’t always use reference. Personally I get my phone taken everyday so I love experimenting without reference to see where my creativity gets me instead of just copying. No hate on people who use references. 😊
@@have-an-awesome-day. maybe you're 12 or something. not to be rude. but no actual artist thinks using references is copying, that's actual brain dead behavior
@@frogsquared7867 if you think I’m 12 why are you calling me brain dead? And also I am no expert or anything I just thought I’d share my opinion, I’m really harsh on myself when it comes to art I am not gonna judge anyone who uses reference but in my brain I’m super worried that I’m gonna use it as a crutch.I have aphantasia which makes it hard to imagine things so I want to work outside of the box to try to widen my range of styles. Sorry if I offended you when I said I find it copying. I’m on the spectrum and have issues with expressing what I really mean. Lots of love 💗
@@have-an-awesome-day. Sorry I didn't mean to be rude to a kid, I feel a little embarrassed now. If you want to become an artist i would borrow some books from your library or something ... good luck
How else is one supposed to learn how to art without references? Some people might have photographic memories but most don't lol. It's like trying to rediscover math. But also if drawing without references is a process that works for you, then that's also great!
I really hate drawing with references, unlike my other friend he pulls out the reference so easily. I refuse cuz Im too lazy to find one, I get art blocked If I don't get it right. I resort to drawing the same thing again and again. Maybe that's why my art progress is slow. I do like getting irl references from people I see or things I see.
Me too. Tbh most of the times I've used references in the past have been to make observation studies, but whenever I try to use references to help me pose a drawing (which isn't a study) it always turns out crooked and ugly. I don't know what that is
for me it’s the complete opposite idk why, if i’m making something up it’s just mine, if i’m using a reference it’s someone else’s in my head and it never turns out as good as their photo did
One thing you can tell if somebody if somebody is experiences is if they can draw something without a reference. This varies from person to person and situation to situation. However, when you see young artists vs older artists you cn sometimes see their process is slower and they mostly try and try unlike the experiences ones where they are able to draw em easily. I mean were learning at our own pace and stuff, sorry if this sounds rude if it does. idk if it is, maybe a disclaiemr idk
A little while ago i thought to myself that i didn't need references, but then i made one pose, found a reference of the pose i was trying to draw, and then drew with that and compared them, and the reference one was SO much better!!! (In sonic PSA voice) "Kids, remember to use references! They'll look amazing if you use those refs! If you dont, Dr. robotnic will break all your bones! It's like i always say, add fear and traumatiion and the kids will listen to every rule!" (Offscreen director) "sonic, you cant say that..." But seriously, everything looks better using references. And if you cant find a good one online, pose in front of a mirror and take a photo, or use a nice posing figure. Not a wooden one like those at ikea. Those dont have any real proportions. Go with a nice plastic professional one, or pick up a made to move barbie. Im not joking, made to move fashion dolls work VERY well in a pinch! Much less expensive, too!
@jazmineszlari414 brilliant!! I don't have a made to move barbie, the only barbie I have isn't very articulated, but I ended up using a g1 Monster High Gooliope doll for taking photos to draw later! She has very nice articulation! And is huge, so she's easy to see all the little details of the pose! (Being huge was her gimmick actually! She worked out perfectly! Huge head, but I make it work! I'll probably get a made to move barbie someday for that purpose tho!) The shadow thing I'd actually really brilliant!! If I ever need to play around with character shading I'm definitely gonna try that!!
@@lalabell666 I also don't have any made to move barbies but hey at least we have a reason not to throw them out I only have a Wonder woman from the DC Superhero girls collaboration that is highly articulated but stiff Barbies are my go-to when it comes to lighting
😭 looking for a refrence for pose or even colour *always* sends me into an art block. But I *need* refrences because my brain literally can't imagine things.
People now that we have reference truly _everywhere_ vs back when people had to actually sit holding a pose for hours to get a portrait done. It’s like this weird “you have to suffer or it’s not valuable” thing…
True masters don't need references for a lot of things anymore want to know why? Because they used them long enough to learn how to do it themselves. If all you do is refuse to use them from the start you'll never actually reach that level where you don't need them anymore.
I needed to see this ahahaha I've got this horrible diseased mindset from growing up on toxic art social media where they say references and posing is theft = =
What if you only draw aliens and creatures so strange that you can't reference things because no reference exists for them, not even a similar creature?
you don't need a reference if you know exactly what you're doing and have a clear idea and direction of where you want your aret to go. otherwise use them for stars sake 😂
i think using references is a life saver, but depending of them can make you unable to create you own drawings without the use of a reference, we need to be careful of using them always!
That scene where he sings always makes me think he had a great future in singing, but being a middle schooler he just didn't want to get teased for it or something
If you draw with references it's completely fine, if you can do it without any reference... It's even better, it's the hardest way, but if you master it... You'll be unstoppable
I use references when idk what to draw or when I need inspo (like poses and outfits or sumn). When I just do a doodle I don’t usually use references unless I wanna draw characters and I wanna be accurate. References are handy :)
when I use the full reference it either looks worse than if I had tried to do it normally or I don’t learn anything from it I’d rather just look at it for a bit, go “ah, that’s cool” stop looking at it and then draw something that contains an element from that reference but not the reference itself is this just another way of using reference? because like, I take a lot of screenshots, and I go “oh that’s cool” before I take the screenshot, and I never use that screenshot in my art at all, but my mind understood what I found cool about it
references will help you learn, its not cheating to look at a reference to figure out how a pose is supposed to look. but it is your choice!! im just saying how i view them lol
@@possumcreature Yes, I'm just afraid that I won't be able to draw it myself later. I find it more interesting to try myself. But sometimes I still have to use them.🤣
I have to use a reference or I can’t visualize what it’s supposed to look like 😭 I hate drawing in front of people because someone told me I wasn’t a real artist because I was using a reference 💔
This reminds me of that one scene in fairy tale when the ice guy and some other dude were going on about being skilled enough to do magic with one hand but it turned out doing it with both regardless made it more stable. Even if you can do something without the help you can still take advantage of the extra resources to make it easier or better.
references make things so much harder, because how the hell do i convey those shapes? i see the emotion, the personality, the vibe, rather than the things i need to see.
Yeah but elevating your art is also learning shape and detail and other fundamentals. A base sketch gets the gist of what your imagining down. A reference and technical know-how enables you to take that idea and make it something polished and more effective. Even if you're an abstract artist, understanding the power of shape and color is a very necessary part of learning art. I'm better with shape than color, learning color theory has been a pain for me but I understand I need it in order to take my work up a notch. Gestural practice and practicing attention to the shape of negative space around an object can help you define and place details more accurately. Beyond that, it's anatomy or structural knowledge of the things you're drawing. Art is just a never-ending learning experience. It helps to think of it like a puzzle
Sorry this is long winded, but I'd recommend doing gesture and figure studies. Like, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes. Sites like line of action are super good for this. It helps you learn to take in the most important details first, usually the main silhouette and gesture, and then place the rest after. It's helped me a ton! You can do it, it's just practice. Artists make a LOT of bad art for every piece they're happy with
@@AvusAvas True, although I'm saying this as someone who managed to remember the fundamentals so hard (basically creating a reference in my brain that i can work with, since my internal perception/external perception ratio is so off-balance) that I instantly learned anatomy whilst having no ability to perform such knowledge tangibly. Not sure why my brain works like that.
I like starting without reference for the fluidity and to get the pose and idea that I have in my head first and then I go in with a reference to fix up anatomical issues. Unless I’m just sketching then I don’t bother with references cause I’m just chilling, having a good time
for me, i can draw without a ref, but if I'm doing a more complicated pose, or an angle I never do, or draw more than 1 person, then yea grab a ref there's no shame in either lol
i usually dont use references and if i do, i use a lot of different ones and make up my own pose/angle and stuff simply because its just way more enjoyable for me (i get rly caught up on details and it ends up getting frustrating if i try to recreate a specific image) dont get me wrong, i dont see anything wrong with using references and tracing is honestly a great way to learn anatomy! thats just my preference
it’s nice to think that it’s okay to use references, so that one day I won’t need to as much! :) All my creations now are just stepping stones to what I’ll be creating in the future
Took me years to accept that references were okay 😭😭😭 I refused for years, man maybe I would have actually taught myself quicker if I'd just used references
You can get away not working with references at all if your art is heavily simplified. Not stickman level, but round, bubbly, no fingers, super basic pose, simple. I used to draw without references for years and only when i got into more realistic (yet stylized) stuff I pretty much only use references now. Well with some exceptions but the majority of it includes at least one. (For dynamic pieces btw, or something 'new' . I admit, I'm too lazy to look for one everytime i just wanna do something simple i am used to anyway) It just sucks when you cant find a fitting reference though. I personally don't use 3D posing tools because it always looks off. I highly prefer to reference from the real world, the results look better and more natural and its generally nicer to use. Many 3D pose tools are anime same-same copy paste. I want references for certain shapes and body types in a similar pose i wanna go for. It helps me understand how they work and how exactly they bend in certain poses and situations. Those 3D tools suck. Not only because they lack variety and detail, but also because they're stiff af.
I usually carefully scan and memorize a reference at night, then start drawing tomorrow (at school). Though, bringing a phone wasn't allowed in my school, so I have to rely on memory
I can't seem to use references properly 🥹 No I mean- like- I prefer to draw something I felt in the moment, I can't find drawing something that already exists 😭 Everything I make has to be an OC and not a character from a show, a game etc. etc. But ofc things like clothes, and poses, I take inspiration, I look at them and then I start thinking of what to draw with it and then I start drawing, I can't draw with it beside my drawing. It's like my brain turns off when I look at what I'm drawing and back at the reference... 😅
