Norton Motorcycles - in TROUBLE again? 

Norton’s issue is a lack of product choice for the average buyer who are not millionaires and can’t afford dream machines.

I looked at a Commando the other day, 17k not a chance, they really need to step it up quality wise. It was a lovely looking bike but the riding experience and finish was miles away what I thought it would be

Bottom line here these things are way too expensive and sold in tiny numbers, in the current world situation no company will survive on this business model 🤷🏻‍♂️

17k bike with £10 indicators. Things have to change.

They have a huge factory to build a very small number of bikes which will only ever be of limited appeal. Set up to fail?

I went to the NEC show last year, the Norton stand was very popular but, quite a few people were saying nice but overpriced! I have only seen one modern Norton on the road, even MV Agustas are more common.

With more than a dozen V4 SV’s available on Autotrader and them not being able to be sold for as little as £34,000 for an unused £44,000 motorcycle , I can’t see how they are going to sell them.

It must be extremely worrying (all over again) for Norton staff…. I wish them, and the company, all the best moving forward. At least SG is no longer around to fleece the pension pot! Hopefully the new concept Atlas which was shown a few years back will come to fruition! 👍🏻

Take the idea of the RE interceptor , make a old style Norton Commando Interstate of the 70s era . Add some goodies ,rev counter ,fuel gauge and price it in the same region . There is no need for these overpriced money loosing new Nortons in the current declining motorcycle market . Nice 500 single would be good too .Again add reasonable priced after market goods and low cost servicing Build the brand , save the brand . RE are not perfect ,but they are building the brand .

Imagine charging £17k+ for a 10-yr old design push-rod, non-Euro complaint, low-bhp, 5-speed bike and £50k+ for basically a re-badged Aprilia AND still dropping £38m. You have to admire their chutzpah. I wish them all the best, but surely their only hope is that TVS's patience doesn't wear out and they continue to want them in their product stable as a vanity project to showcase a premium-brand, sold through an existing global dealership network at some point.

The Norton Commando 961 is a beautiful looking bike. It makes a great sound and its power output is right in the sweet spot - not too much and not too little. I’m also right in the middle of the target group - money is not the issue. But do I want one? I currently have a T120 Bonneville. What would a Commando give me above what I already have? I think not. My next bike is more likely to be a Kawasaki Z900 RS - if I can bear parting with my Bonnie. Norton’s product has to be improved so people like me will buy one.

My theory is as good as anyone else's guess. They want a high tech facility in UK to attract top design staff and their industry contacts to pull TVS into the top tier of sophisticated motorcycle designs. Actually selling bikes isn't the purpose. How can it be? They already sell 2 million per year in India. A couple of years like that and they will have sold more bikes than the entire British motorcycle industry throughout the 20th Century.

Norton is falling into the same trap as before in the 1970s. They are selling outdated, overpriced, and quite honestly, over rated machines. There are far better motorcycles, and manufacturers on the market with dealer back up to choose from. Relying totally on a once great name with a once great past is definitely not an achievable business plan.

Commandos are in the premium market segment where there’s even less customers, not mentioning the V-4. Their twins need to be accessible for the majority of riders to enjoy sales volume, make it cheaper! Most motorcyclists don’t need Ohlins or carbon mudguards etc. They just want a financially accessible motorcycle and if that’s working your rewards increase parallel. Bring out a tourer (Interstate) or a Scrambler capable of doing cross-country. I think it was some (please correct me if I’m wrong!) 70 years ago where Norton was financially saved because of their single-cylinder bikes. Catering for the elite few will never up those sales figures, especially when some of those financially endowed persons already have their Nortons gracing the odd living room. It nevertheless amazes me to see Norton is active and giving it a shot 😉

I agree fully in your insides laid out in the video here. Thank you very much for sharing them with us. I hope Noton will survive these difficult first years for every starting business operation and I appreciate very much that the investor is willing to support building these magnificent machines in the UK despite the risks. Good luck to Norton Motorcycles Company !

1 Norton, or 3 Royal Enfields? I think they went wrong trying to be the "retro Ducati", ie low sales high premium price sales model - Thinking you could make Norton a boutique brand. Because at least with a Ducati, you're paying for performance. All you seem to be paying for with Norton, is the low volume "rarity" of a low power, low performance, parallel twin. And I think they got the styling wrong. Modern bikes on smaller wheels -the new Commando just doesnt lookquite right to my eyes - theres too much "see through" of the engine and the seat/tail sits too high. - Its like they had 2 photos of 2 different motorbikes - and cut the photo in half length ways along the seat/tank/bars/clocks and overlayed it on a modern bike - Seat/tank are all too high, or the engine is, and ought to be a couple of inches lower, canted forwards with exhaust around the engine casing for clearance from the lower engine. And why did that tall awkward engine need so many cc's? The origial commando was what, 750 to start? I wanted one, til they released one, and then I didn't. Triumph's execution of modern retro was far better. As was RE's.

No surprise, at the price they sell their bikes...

I bought a new 961 last week, its frame number is in the low 300s, the dealer had already sold 34 this year. The current bikes are a loss leader to keep the brand alive in the market, until the new Euro 5 compliant bikes come on stream. At which point the 961 models will be phased out. Don't know why they bothered with the V4, as sales are tiny compared to the 961. The 961 sell for £15K new, as they have a dealer contribution of £2024 each.

I would suggest MV Agusta as a comparison. Low volume high value bikes with a significant historical link. They have been slowly going bankcrupt for the last 25 years. Repeated recapitalisation often with new partners with deep pockets. So far none have managed to turn it into a profitable concern. Now with new owners who are making all the right noises, we shall see.

I love the bikes and would buy one tomorrow but they are out of my reach financially 🏍

Norton is trying to position themselves as a prestige bike maker, but they’re not. The 961 isn’t worth nearly the cost of 3 Triumph Bonnevilles. The technical differences from the last Meridian Bonnie to the first Hinckley Bonnie is beyond night and day. Twin overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, twin balancing shafts and a smooth engine that had an appropriate price tag and reliable.

Have you overlooked VAT in your financials, on £14k you would be paying £2.8k in VAT plus registration so retailing a bike at upper £17’s wouldn’t leave much profit for a dealer?

They have to start making a 650cc bike, in the price range of the Triumph Trident. With the engines TVS is making that would not be a problem.

An interesting analysis of the published figures. TVS must be a very cash rich company to keep throwing money at the Norton brand. It's even more amazing that old Norton under Garner managed to produce bikes with a fraction of the budget (lets not get into where he got the money from!) A range of bikes that are emissions compliant are bady needed. The UK premium market just isn't big enough. They need to be selling bikes worldwide.

I see your point but I have doubts that TVS did their market research properly on this. The target buyer would be about my age , late 60's who might have had a Commando or hankered after oe in their youth and mostly we are thinking about giving up riding motorcycles. Besides this I have see a few road tests that are less than complementary about the bikes.

As has been said here already, way overpriced, especially the V4s, they are a ludicrous price. No one is going to absorb those sort of losses for long, even for an iconic name, so TVS must have a radical strategic plan to develop the company. It's slightly unfair to make a comparison with Triumph, but they are one of Nortons main competitors, just take a look at Triumphs latest machine, the Speed 400 and the scrambler version, for £5000 it's insane value for money, so much so that it's basically sold out until October!! I decided to buy one 3 weeks back and was very lucky to find one, and even then it's from a dealer 200 miles away who is so busy that he can't even pdi and reg it until this week!! Thats what Norton is up against. Norton's current range is not only very over priced, it's also dated, so the ONLY way forward is by getting a completely new, bang upto date range to market. Even if they have been working on that since they took control it's going to be at least 4 to 5 years to do it. Well I wish them luck, I would like to see them succeed, but they have an almighty job on their hands. John Bloor did it with Triumph, but times were very different back then.

I’d sure love for them To keep going so I can get a new one in the U.S.!

Perhaps a more retro design with new tech as so many others are doing,instead of the current look ma am quite modern too approach

Looking at the How Many Left website shows the following new UK registrations in 2023 calendar year - 31 V4 SV’s, 134 Commando 961 SP’s & 9 CR’s, total 174. I have no idea if this includes bikes pre-registered at dealers.

Royal Enfield found the right formula, though it did take them quite a long time to develop. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!. Don't try to re-invent the wheel.

They are not following whats popular. £45k sports bikes and cafe racers are not selling like adventure or enduro bikes. Then the price is an epic issue, Ducati make £10k bikes and £80k bikes. Buying into the brand is achievable. Where as with Norton it's £17k. They need a 600cc adventure bike retailing at £10k. The Cayenne saved Porsche from oblivion so they need to re-imagine the brand.

They have to produce a bike under 10k. That gets people into the brand. There's a limited amount of people that can afford 45k bike! Or even a 15k bike when they grow out of their beginner bike. I ride Yamaha because I started on a Yamaha! And plus i can get more bike for less money! And more reliable!!!

Dear Norton, watch all the reviews, address the vibe issues and add a sixth gear next time. And make the upcoming Commando MORE vintage and MORE British; Hagon shocks, Harrison brakes maybe? Create details, (gauges, switches) like vintage jewelry, and please, chromed metal fenders only. At all costs keep it air cooled like R.E., unlike Triumph/BSA. And if it's not more beautiful than the beauty you make now, don't bother - your niche are buyers who want to fawn over their bikes.

They desperately need more dealerships, people are not going to travel a large distance to buy a motorcycle or to get it serviced or repaired. That's my opinion.

Could i say that japen bikes have increased in prices greatly over the last 3 to 4 years while the japeneze yen has fallen 35 to 40 percent against the US dollar, the japaneze bike makers deal in "Yen" and as such must be making a fortune... that pisses me off to no end... dave Arizona

Produce the Dominator 916 as an everyday cafe racer at a sensible price, start with an affordable base model for your average motorcycle rider with the option to upgrade components if you can afford. Every one loves the brand but can’t always justify the cost. They will fly out the dealerships.

Great vid and insight. IMO they need to improve quality, drop prices, and expand the range. MV & Ducati have shown theres a market for niche high price bikes but even 44k is a big ol stretch. Make it £25k ish and I think it would have a huge impact. And as others have mentioned, something like an old school 500 single would be almost unique and very tempting. Fingers crossed.

they're gonna need some very special bikes to come on line soon

Those admin costs are supporting the Commando which is a bike nobody wants. They would have been better to take the commando offline and incubate new models for a while instead and setup future distribution channels.

I would so like to come full circle and have a new Commando. My first (legal) road bike was a 1973 850. At 15.5 years old you can imagine what a thrill that was. Now at 68 years old I would be just as thrilled to have a modern version. They have done a great job of making that bike look so "original". I do think they should be able to get another 10 to 15 HP out of it without to much trouble. That would make it easier to justify the price. Getting dealers in the States could be a little tricky these days but with deep pockets they can do it. Hurry up please !! I will offer my services at my local superstore dealer to get it going for free!!

Very interesting.Aston Martin are in the same boat.Massive losses per new car due high refinancing costs.

There was a £3850 dealer margin on the old commander give or take extras Stu sold if this helps

Stop making bikes for millionaires, try making them for genuine bikers who buy the other marques available. Something around 6 to 8 grand is nearer the mark, no frills just an honest usable bike.

Go the Indian route, imagine a 2024 International look alike in an updated featherbed frame, this would give the new Goldie a run for its money.

@iainbentley1313 Hi I am really pleased you have a solution for hanging panniers on the 961, please can you let me know where you had them from and the model of GIVI panniers you have used Iain Bentley

Norton, a name I know since childhood, but never seen one and I am near fifty years old. Sure, I live in the province of Quebec, not a motorbike place, but still, I saw low selling bikes like Buell, Moto Guzzi, Triumph and what not… but never a Norton. A few there must be around, but so low in quantity it gives an idea of the poor sale overall.

They need to come up with new models , they haven't got forever which appears to be the management mentality

Didn’t they just announce they’re expanding to more markets as well as new models

Very interesting & well presented. Thank you....

Obviously Norton would need a new model range to be able to earn some money. The 961, looking as lovely as it is, wouldn’t attract a 20 year old buyer. They desperately need a model range going from 400 cc and up and in the same time looking less back in time as they so far have been.

Norton should team up with Triumph and Villiers, maybe call the company, NVT?

Starter companies mostly run at a substantial loss for many years, sometimes decades. Just look at Zero Motorcycles books, and they're still in business. Norton can't even get the turning cycle on the Commando right. Their bikes are mainly form over function. And thats one of their main problems.

They missed a chance with the Atlas 650 and Ranger. Non existent range .

I for one have been doing my part by pinging Norton every time they try to sell me a T-shirt, can I get a bike to go with it please, still not selling across the pond

Lots of new indian made models coming . The 961 is amazing. But unfortunately is the last bike ever to be manufactured in England. By any manufacturer. Love mine.

As per my understanding tvs need take action tvs need to take control

If a 72 norton cost $2000 in 72 - that is equivalent to a bike that costs $15,500 today (in 2024)

A$30,000 for an Indian made Norton? What are they smoking? You can buy a new BMW GS for that. To ask a premium price you need a premium bike. Here in Australia the Consumer Law requires a statutory warranty of 10 years, and parts and servicing for that time as well. That knocks out the crap from the market.

Will tvs put more money into norton?? Yes. I'm saying because all major indian automobile companies owns an internationally reputed brand. Mahindra has Italian company, tata has British, bajaj has Austrian one, hero had American one . These are examples. It's part of their strategy. Tvs won't given up on Norton. Maybe they'll launch a Norton sub brand for mid weight motorcycles.

As a avid biker . I’m disgusted to the back teeth regarding this shambles of a company ? From gardener to this state now ? Uk government idiots to all that sucked the life out of one of the world leading motorcycling company on the planet . I’ struggle with this shower of shite . What a loss

I thought the role of the UK factory was to raise the profile of the brand while the owner in India developed a new range of cheaper mass produced bikes in factories in India. Where are the new models ??

Number of bikes registered in 2024 was 154 and this would include dealer demos and the bikes they have for the team

It's easy. To many different bikes too soon.

I wouldn’t buy a new Norton for over £5k…they’re just not a competitive offering. Having previously owned a 650ss and a Fastback Commando I’d buy a classic again and a with the change a green laner

Norton should change the game and lease their bikes and open cycle shops in the empty shopping centres unit to advertise their products. Leasing locks people in servicing and maintenance and Norton gets the profit , not some back alley fly by night . Stop hiding and start showing of a quality product at an affordable and save long term payment plan that doesn’t end with customer feeling they’re being ripped off . My friend bought a brand new £20,000 ,30 months ago and took it back to the dealer for a trade in for another one and was told “ We Don’t want your bike “ the bike has 8,000 miles and in mint condition . Norton has to stop the rot by changing the game .

Too expensive. Build a Norton commando like the old one in India. They are dead ducks the way they are atm.

Looking at the numbers and sales , firstly Norton needs to move their production to India TVS plant and start producing smaller capacity motorcycles in the same brand name just like how Triumph 400s is doing with Bajaj and BMW 310s with TVS ,these lower segment affordable motorcycles will be the bread and butter for survival of the brand ,the premium and higher segment can continue in parallel with it.If they can't come out of the bubble and ego of Norton being a highly premium brand to the likes of Brough Superior and Hellcat and Rolls Royce of motorcycles image , in all possibilities that they will have to shut shop ,if TVS does not take steps in shifting production soon to cheaper locations, which they are highly capable technically and financially , Norton may soon be history again, they need to go the Royal Enfield way to survive.

3:35 - this is where they lost from the get-go - "premium motorcycle market" There is simply not enough "premium" motorcycling enthusiasts to support the company like Norton.

Theyve got one of the worlds best brands.

I can afford a new Royal enfield but not a norton and one wonders why they are going south

Richard Arnold ex Ceo at Man utd (5.2m severance pay) given a top job @ Norton!?

I’ll put my Triumph T120 up against the modern Commando any day….🏍

Atlas should have been priority, not overpriced tat...bread and butter bikes,like Monsters were to Ducati

Complete waste of time and money, the bikes are way too expensive, only a few models on offer and the biggest problem is that they are built in England. Bring more models online, move production to Thailand and half the price of the machines, if it stops in the UK, it’ll go down the pan again!!

They should have made a better motorcycle 😊

Hey, charlie is really expensive these days.

Should not develop Norton bikes only as exclusive, niche bling. Make an array of models for the ordinary people and rebuild and strengthen the brand from there.

Get a mk3 850 take the engine out and put in their twin engine, put rightway up forks and good brakes in. 961 just another cafe racer. Moto guzzi another brand name who makes uninteresting bikes now, we want a lemans, or T3. We want a comfotarble seat as well. No market research only enthusiast who want to build specials in the shed. Just go buy a 850 mk3. Triumph have lost credibility with crappy gearboxes on the T100, which they dont want to put their hands up to. Back to the good old bad days of British bike manufacturing. Wake up Bloor.

They need 5 years interim jobs at China and manufacturing practice at India .

It’s Not a Norton it’s tonka toy bike I would rather ride RE himi

The question is how much tax fraud is happening here. Sure there’s not much earnings, but there’s not much engagement in making proper business, either. So what’s the purpose of this operation? A hobby? Even a hobby does better, maybe smaller then. Positively maintaining a brand to be used later for TVS creations? Like the crappy 125 and 300cc bikes coming to europe right now? Odd, too. Wanna maintain the rich boy’s toys niche? Then build some proper dreams for them, MV is struggling with their vision, too. Look at Curtiss - pure decades long fraud, Brough-Superior? Are we seeing Norton being Heskethed, too? It is already? Yeah. If in doubt and you want a real Norton, go to andover norton. Solid craftmanship, parts support and proper historic. The market in Europe for European models is shrinking. TVS will survive it, as they have and will build more global bikes - TVS, not Nortons. Compare it to Morini, MVAgusta, Curtiss, Brough Superior, BSA, AJP, …, MZ (in early 2000s), Voxan, Mondial, …, and Triumph’s beginnings out of an oil leak. Look at Indian by Polaris, Horex, Münch. Absolutely forget comparisons with KTM, Ducati, …, their transformation is far too aged and uncomparable. Look at a Brand with a Name, no relevant execution, zero success and weird uncompetitive models, costly in production.

Yeah well who has a billion dollars to spend on a motorcycle? No wonder.

Norton must be the most jinxed make in the world,years spent developing wankel engines,then going from one owner to another with white elephants like the Nemisis v8 and then the Garner debacle . TVS have bought themselves a money pit,and although they can afford it, I cannot see anyway back into mainstream motorcycling for the Norton brand , it is too damaged, and is now just a low volume boutique brand.Moreover the motorcycle market is already crowded with heritage brands.

Nobody is buying bikes anymore

I smell a rat……. again.

give it three years, allow the product to be sold in more territories before you write them off . and it's 'pounds' plural.

Way overpriced. Plenty of better options. Won't last long.

Why am I not surprised by this! They're producing a motorcycle(s) no one wants. Financially, none of this makes any sense at all.

Low power, overweight, overpriced, no chance Norton. There are much better bikes for sale 17k is a joke!

You use the phrase stop gap measure too much like you are trying to convince yourself.

Don't put sky high prices on your machines < you may sell more

Their bikes are grossly overpriced, overhyped, poor standard and frankly not very good!

Hi Norton 😊 iv always wanted one of your bikes but can't even afford a bandit. But if you want to create more sales investigate how to lower manufacturing with all suppliers your entry bike starts at 17 grand I think going on of upwards of 44 grand only millionaires can afford such bikes if you negotiate with all suppliers to bring cost down and pass those savings onto the fortunate few I'm sure you'll take less of a hit in future. 😉 Regards Tony