As someone who had a distant mom- it’s definitely on the mom to insert herself into halloween- not just expect her to be included when she literally never includes herself
I was gonna say the same thing. I think about if this was from a woman’s POV and was upset about her distant husband, then it would have been treated differently. Which I get, but IMO, he didn’t handle it the best… but not an AH. Plus the kid has a strained relationship with the mom, OC he doesn’t want her to come, if he’s not bonded, then he doesn’t feel the same.
i have a distant father, and i don’t think they were wrong on saying that op (or the more involved parent in general) could help her get in touch with her kid. at the end of the day, you’re not just a mother and a father, you are parents TOGETHER and it definitely doesn’t help to have such divided roles as it seems they have. but in the halloween situation it sounds like he tried so 🤷♀️ that one is weird, tbh i feel for the mother bc that sounds straight up anxiety inducing, it’s definitely a hard situation to fix but it is her responsibility as a parent
I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like when my mother would suddenly choose she wanted to be seen as a “good mom”, but you don’t just get to choose that it’s the right time for you to show up and expect everyone to get on board. If you aren’t involved, you need to step up and say something when you expect to be. OP was making costumes for a while and she didn’t ask to be a part of it until it was an opportunity to be hurt.
I like this podcast, but these women do tend to shit more on the men than women. I agree that dad didn’t do a great job telling his kid, “no, mommy is part of this”. However, mom should have definitely put the foot down on this. If this was the other way around, Morgan and Alejandra would have just said that dad didn’t do enough to be included and they wouldn’t have just assumed mom was having a relationship with her friend.
Exactly!!! I want context on how absent this mom is, but from that message, I was thinking NTA. If roles were reversed and the dad was absent and not included in Halloween, they probably would have say "poor mom and poor kid, they have to do Halloween alone"
Right? Unless the kid dumped the glass of milk all over her head, why is she showering in their home and getting her hair all wet as well? Shoot the mom a text and say: Hey, your kid spilled some milk on me. I'm just going to use a wash cloth to clean it up and pop into the bathroom to change clothes real quick. or: Do you mind if I take a quick shower in the guest bath? We had an accident with some milk. The kids are in a safe place, it will just be a quick rinse off, where do you keep the towels, etc. Or even better yet: Hey, your husband came home early and I got milk spilled on me earlier. Should I head home so I can shower, or would you still like me to stay and watch the kids? I brought a change of clothes, so I'm good with whatever. It's not hard to be upfront and to ask for permission to do things in SOMEONE ELSE'S home. And to that as well, why did the husband not call or text his wife and say, "I'm not feeling well so I traded shifts with a coworker. Since you pay the babysitter, should I tell her to head home early, or is it okay if I take some time to lay down while she watches them?" And the babysitter and husband both arguing with her over it? Sounds a bit sus 👀
I agree, especially where the part where he didn’t tell his wife he was staying home. Don’t they like to live in the same house he could easily tell her I’m not feeling well and decided to stay home
Pertaining to story No. 3.... I find it funny that no blood relative took him in (not even his mother) and they convinced a newly widowed woman to let him and his kids stay there. I feel like they knew he was no good and would basically snoop and lounge and walk around the place like he owns it. Or they knew his kids were bad.
If he was there while the husband was alive and upsetting her this much, he probably would have shortened the brothers say. None of this was done with respect for the dead or the wife.
As a mom the first story broke my heart... Kids are brutally honest. It's not how much time you spend with your kid it's the quality. My son wants to be with me 24/7 I have to peel him away, the way the kid responded made it sound like the mother is very uninvolved. Sounds like the husband has decided he can't force her to be a mom. Dad should have tried to talk kid into wanting mom there but it shouldn't be forced. For these reasons mom is the asshole imo
As a mom I know it’s not anyones responsibility to have a bond with my child other than me. It’s not on my partner to make my child want to bond with me that’s 110% my responsibility
As a mom I know it’s not anyones responsibility to have a bond with my child other than me. It’s not on my partner to make my child want to bond with me that’s 110% my responsibility
It's so weird how no one in the comments is acknowledging how op says he tried to talk to his kid about bringing his wife, but the kid still said no. And with the way op phrased it, made it seem like she didn't have much interest in Halloween, so he didn't think to make her a costume. Still I feel like she should have got the husband to make a costume anyway, or at least came without one, because yeah this would be a great opportunity to be with her kid. But I don't think op's really in the wrong
@@zuzzzied Agreed. On top of that, he's not just "listening to a 4 year old" he still wants the mom to come if she'd like, he just never made her a costume, something that she never mentioned wanting prior to Halloween night, nor does it sound like she said she'd want to come at all, so why would he make her a costume? I would like to hear more details though, specifically if there were any attempts to talk about it between each other alone, because he only mentions what he talked about with his son, and then how his wife seemed hurt but "brushed it off" without elaborating on how he knew that.
For the first story I feel like no one is realizing or talking about the problem though. The kid is CLEARLY stating he doesn’t want his mom there. That’s an issue. Why did the kid prefer the bestfriend over mom? They should be asking “why doesn’t my kid wanna be around mommy”
Kids are going to want to be around who they see most, not whose best for them. Kids like consistency, and I can almost guarantee this kids dad puts off ill vibes about the mom that the kid picks up on.
I see what your saying, it could be some form of abuse which the other commenters didn't catch on. Its possible. Especially since it doesn't change in several weeks. And the dad is around a lot but being emotionally neglected and a bad encounter or several could lead to not wanting to be around her.
@@kristinehatcher5461 I disagree if the mom barely spends time with the child that will show in the kids attitude towards the Mom the father does basically everything for that kid. You guys are treating him very unfairly because if this was reversed I doubt the responses would be the same and there is a similar stories where the dad doesn't really spend time with the kids but expects a strong relationship. You can't expect that if you can't even be there for an hour in your day
@@Asset80 EXACTLY THIS, No one is talking about the neglect I lived in a similar situation where my parents were seperated and my mom worked from home and stayed with us and my father worked a lot and saw us only on the weekends and he also didn't live with us anymore hence why we saw him only on weekends. She had a childhood friend that was our godmother. He also eventually stopped coming, me and my brother asked but eventually we stopped expecting him to come and moved on we weren't even double digits yet. We are a little over a year apart. My mom also had no romantic relationship with my godmother either so I thought that part was really weird and unnecessary to throw in. My dad tried to begin trying later in our life after neglecting us for much longer and he wanted immediate respect but we were kinda detached from him. We eventually repaired our relationship and he passed away shortly after. Like I'm glad he tried in the end but still people need to realize when they are hurting their children.
Story 3: I would have LOST it. What is wrong with that family?! Kick them out and re-wrap those gifts, you'll know what they are but you can still have those items when you were meant to.
Yeah, I'd have terrible trouble keeping my primal rage in check if I was personally involved with this situation or even casually knew someone dealing with this. What those people are doing to that poor widow...
Story 4: the husband calling her out for focusing on the “petty” ticket situation in his mother’s “difficult time” failed to see that his mother clearly had the time and mental capacity to go out of her way to purchase two separate tickets. MIL knew what she was doing and is using this tragedy as a way to get one over on her DIL. But MIL is allowed to hide behind grief and it’s very clear that she did that on purpose.
I can totally see this and totally agree with you. It definitely feels shady and like a jab at the DIL. However, there's a time and a place for things like this. OP should have just sucked it up and went to the funeral and dealt with it at a later time or just let it go this once. This wasn't a family vacation, this was her husband's father's funeral.
The story with the kids opening her gifts: That’s absolutely devastating that he had that planned out to help her grieve and they ripped that all away from her. They were in HER closet. Brother-in-law is unhinged
it’s heartbreaking. if i were in the wife’s position and that happened to me, i would be inconsolable all over again. you can’t undo that. they took away a year with her husband still “being around”. that blessing from my partner would have been an anchor to help me grieve.
Feels like he wants to replace his brother and in all senses. Firstly walking into her room "to borrow stuff"? How juvenile! Then taking and using his brother's clothes and stuff, It's very strange. How did the kids even get to the gifts?? I don't care who "owns" the house, You ask to use the bathroom in a friend's house, let alone looking through someone's closet. It's inexcusable and shows a complete lack of respect for his brother's widow. She is not suddenly invalidated just because he was your brother. And then for the MiL to take his side?? I know mothers are blind, but enabling that behaviour is disgusting.
The first story: i am more mad at the mom than the father tbh. Actions speaks louder than words. If you want to spend time with your kid, no Halloween costume and shenanigans will stop you from it.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I disagreed with almost everything they said. The mom chose not to go. The kid doesn’t seem to have a bond with someone, why would the child have to not go trick or treating bc his mom doesn’t want to go. There were a few times my mom didn’t go trick or treating with me and my sister bc she didn’t want to go. My dad didn’t just say no one is going trick or treating. If the mom wanted to spend time with her child, not having a costume shouldn’t have stopped her. Just bc she works long hours doesn’t mean she can’t spend time with her child. My mom use to go to school in the daytime and work at night and I remember her saying goodnight to me every time she finally came home from work.
Yeah i was split on that one... I do think the father acted immaturely by not talking to his wife, but as a child of an "uninvolved" parent (father in my case) i can easily imagine the kid indeed not having a good relationship with the mother in this situation. Even 4yo can grow resentful... I most certainly did. Even now most of the time talking to my dad is like talking to a co-worker i don't have much in common with.
The plane ticket story was definitely a power move by the mother to get rid of the girl, grief isn’t an excuse to treat someone like sh*t, and from what I gathered she just used her husband‘s death to be petty and throw shots. The mom wasn’t even thinking about her son, in a time like this wouldn’t you want to be close to your significant other? wouldn’t you want someone to support them? The mother in law intentionally did this without thinking about anyone but herself💀
Agreed, but OP should have just sucked it up and dealt with it and talked about it at a later time or let this one go for once because this was not the time and place to show her up. This wasn't about OP, this was about her husband and being there for her husband. It would have been a better message to the MIL that she did show up to prove that "hey, no matter what you do, I'll always be with him"
I also think it’s weird that the husband didn’t find it strange that they were sitting separately? I know my fiancé would have immediately gotten his seat changed or at least asked. This whole dynamic is strange to me
Imagine how many times she’s been told to suck it up? I would be tired too. The moms husband just died and she still has it in her to be a bitch to her sons Gf/wife ? Lol I would be done . It sounds like a pattern the way they treat her badly and I don’t think they necessarily wanted her at the funeral just invited her because they had to and made it as weird as they could from the get go. I do think they should break up . I know it’s a situation where everyone grieving but they’re still treating her like shit, potentially even taking more grief out on her because they already don’t like her .
Exactly! I wouldn’t have went either. The MIL is literally keeping them apart. The husband should have suggested switching the tickets before the flight. There’s no reason the MIL needed to choose now to stomp on DIL. If she thinks of her as second class then why should the DIL make an effort?
For the hosts to say “well at least she bought you a ticket. Just suck it up” is ridiculous. I would rather MIL not buy me a ticket if it meant I didn’t get to sit with my husband. It’s less about the economy seat and more of the fact that she put her son in a better section and snubbing DIL.
For story #3 I may be paranoid but I'm concerned they're trying to take the house from her and establish BIL has residency so she can't kick him out without eviction
Story # 3: OH MY GOD. People are disgusting. That lady deserves so much better and that brother in law has zero respect for anyone. Haven’t we learned to not touch things that don’t belong to us????
Seriously! Like saying it’s her fault for “not concealing them”…umm those kids shouldn’t have been in her closet!! Or in her room at all to begin with! And the brother and mother in law saying like oh it’s his brothers house not hers….uhh no? They’re married…it’s her house too just as much as it was his…so incredibly messed up. I can’t believe some people. Especially how much thought and effort the husband went into to make those gifts special to help his wife cope without him WHILE SUFFERING THROUGH TERMINAL CANCER and then having it destroyed in one fell swoop…absolutely heartbreaking, and grief is hard enough as is without throwing this awfulness into it
Omg the husband passing and the gifts thing…..had me in tears. If my mom was able to do that before she had passed and someone ruined that for me…..I would be enraged
For the first story I believe that the mom should’ve worked harder to let it be known she wanted to go and participate. I believe 4 yo is the first real year kids know or understand Halloween and trick or treating. This would be something I’d refuse to miss and I’d also have a talk with my child to let them know I was going no matter what. A lot was put on the dad.
IMO on the first story: 1) they're going trick or treating BECAUSE of the kid. it's the kid's event and he gets to choose who goes. 2) for the mom, you don't get to not take an interest in your kid, then get butthurt when your kid stops taking an interest in you
i love this podcast but yeah it made no sense how they reacted to that story, making excuses for the mom but then when it came to the plane ticket she shouldve just been the better person and got on the plane?? like maybe the mom shouldve just went and “been the better person” right?
@@noellelarson5704 yeah and it shouldn't have been about the mom but the kid the whole time... It is something he was hyped for and the mom wanted to disregard that
YES, WELL SAID, You described my feelings on that story perfectly. I wondered why this was such a big deal for the mom, just fucking join them trick or treating, who cares if you’re not wearing a costume. If you really wanna go, go. For your child. Swallow your pride. Spend time with him, so later he will want to spend time with you.
For the first story: My ex husband was a marine and my best friend’s husband was also a marine. The guys were both gone I would say 60-75% of the time (deployments,training, long work days, ect) and me and her spent nearly everyday, all day together for years. I had a very close bond with her daughter (I have no kids). Imo, It would be weird if I didn’t with how much time we spent together. We did things like trick or treat, spend birthdays together, go on outings, ect. together more often than with the guys. Would anyone think that is “weird”? Probably not because we are both women, right? Sad how men can’t have close bonds with other men in our society without scrutiny. As for the mom, I read another comment that said “If she wanted to, she would.” And I think that pretty much sums up her part in this story.
THIS 100%!!! I’m like…why do you need to insinuate something because he has a best friend? It’s probably the only adult conversation and social interaction he has, especially when he does 100% of the childcare 24/7. Toxic masculinity/femininity seem to be clouding people here.
@@alicetoyou448 imo it wasn’t the fact that he had a guy best friend, it was the purposeful and pointed exclusion of his wife that seemed kind of suspicious, like a deeper issue. definitely a reach, i agree, but i don’t think they were insinuating that the closeness was weird, rather the apparent resentment of his wife
Lmao not you complaining about the double standard to defend the men but not the women, I thought you were going another direction with this. I bet no one shit on your husbands for not spending enough time with the kids. - before you come at me I know it’s not the same to be in the military than at work but how often do we hold men accountable for this same behavior?
@@lulyr1471 I wasn’t making a comment at all about the double standard of men getting shit for not being there for their kids when women do. I actually 100% agree with you. I wasn’t commenting on that specifically mostly because I thought my comment was too long already. I just thought it was bullshit and honestly offensive that they were insinuating the husband and best friend had something going on other than a genuine friendship. So I told an anecdote from my own life for comparison. I hope that clears it up.
@@lulyr1471 um idk about u but women do try to w their husbands accountable for this, as they should ofc. it’s literally one of the most common reasons for divorce. the only ppl i see defend this behaviors the trad wife sahms that act like their only purpose in life is to raise children & take care of their husband.
second story: i’ve nannied to a bunch of families and the moms always give me a tour and show me the guest shower and offer it to me to use as i please. i never did, it was kinda weird, but things happen while nannying so the shower is a nice touch moms didn’t know her husband was home? weird. that tells me he didn’t want her to know and wanted alone time nanny arguing? girl just take the L. apologize for over stepping boundaries and let the lady paying you know it won’t happen again but that’s if you’re not sleeping with her husband 😴
Nope-if dad said I can I’m not allowing her to dock my pay and say I’ve crossed boundaries I had no idea about. I’m a nanny and stay at work some night cuz sometimes im on at 5am so I shower there and sleep so I don’t see the problem
@@jaylahcheeves3209thank you! Omg I thought I was taking crazy pills for a second. I think if the mom was upset, I would ask her what she'd have me do? Also, should I not listen to your husband and only talk to you in the future?
@@srose1088this😫😭 did everybody just forget about the dad being home and allowing it since he watched the kids so clearly he was okay with her doing so???? I would definitely argue about it too if she threatened to doc my pay. I’m a parent myself and that mom is being ridiculous, if that’s her boundary fine whatever but just tell her “hey next time I’d rather not have you shower here, I’m not really comfortable with that”
@@paigeleann2698 doesn't that signal even more bad communication? I feel bad for that Nanny tho, the husband probably gave her the idea it was completely fine to have a shower and then you get blamed for not heing professional....
@@cristakampert8740 right it's crazy tbh but me personally having helped raise two kids if one of them spilled milk on me whether it was cow's milk or formula milk formula milk is honestly worse cuz that SHIT STINKS and it's so crusty I would definitely want to take a shower if that happened to me 😭 and I honestly wouldn't mind her taking a shower just don't use any of my shit other than a new rag and a bar of soap 🤷🏾♀️
@@cristakampert8740 and if she is actually professional and an adult with experience and the last thing I would expect her to do is argue back instead of apologizing and saying I’ll do better next time
@@xxprettyrwbyxx3857 True but they said her hair was wet so I’m wondering if her hair had milk in it too because why would she need to wash your hair if the milk was only on her clothes and stuff. Plus her arguing back when she could’ve just apologized and should’ve asked to shower regardless of the situation and didn’t mention that her husband said it was OK to shower. tells me that the nanny and the husband are probably cheating together.
regarding the first story, i feel like y’all should hold the mom a *little* more accountable. at the end of the day, it’s on her and only her to be a more involved parent and communicate. she’s upset she didn’t go trick r treating, but she had the opportunity to go? why didn’t she just go & leave the pettiness of the costume choice aside?
I think they’re both AH in different ways, the dad should’ve insisted the mom comes, but it’s up to the parent with a weaker relationship to rebuild the relationship. Mom needs to realize that work is important, but so is her relationship with her son and husband because even he’s upset by the rift in the relationship
@@samanthaM7119the dad isn’t the asshole, I feel like the fact the mum would need to be forced shows how uninvolved she is as a parent, the dad isn’t responsible for forcing the mum to be a good mum
Listening to this I think if the genders was reversed they’d feel very differently which is sad. If was a stay at home mom doing all this care and making sure child has a good holiday while overworking husband does nothing but is upset he is not included our first reaction is to think he’s a shitty dad so why is it different for the over working mom that isn’t even trying to spend bath time with her child.
About the first story: I am a full time working mom and my husband doesn't work, but our son doesn't stay with him either. So I don't blame the dad for making the decision to go. Uninvolved parents will be noticed the kiddos. They won't chose them because that parent is not a default or even a comfort person. And even about the best fiend being there and involved, as a "married but single" parents, you want people to help! Is nice to see that someone else is also loving your child like you do! Specially when one of their parents is not.
Agreed, what I got from the first one was the dad was trying his best to be involved with the kid, but when it came to the mom, she barely fucking tried, and then expected to be included. Don’t get me wrong. I absolutely get what they were saying about her job but you can make time for your kid. If she wanted to, she would.
@@stellar._.sunset7048true. I also feel like the process of having the husband make her a costume from scratch is a lot of work especially if the kid doesn't want to trick or treat with her.
Right,, like as a mother I could NEVER miss HOLIDAYS. They may not matter to us,, (which they do to me,, I'm a kid at heart,,) but they do to our CHILDREN. They also will always & forever remember who was there and who WASN'T. They won't remember the adult problems/things going on..He doesn't want mommy there because he must be picking up on the fact mommy cares more about daddy than me,, and the fact that he went trick or treating without her,, rather than the fact that SHE missed the holiday with her SON. F my hubby at that point,, no man is going to ruin my memories and time with my child!! Shame on her for not making sure she was included and she also is allowing this best friend and her husband to run things.. Without full context though,, maybe he's making her sound bad and not giving full details and I'm completely wrong and she is a victim and the child is being manipulated but just my opinion ❤❤❤
@@Natasha_-_She was not ready to have children and she says it, he pushed her to have one, she endup with PPD. And after doing that to her he spend most of his time with his bff, cuddle in the same bed, he also admitted having sexual attraction and fantasies towards him, he let his son called his bff "dad" . During all those years, he has done things to clearly replace the mom, they always hangout even when the mom is at home and he takes the kid so he can't spend time with her. They ended up divorced and he is moving with the bff even though his parents offer to pay him a place. So he's clearly the AH
The story with the babysitter: I don’t know seems sus, dad’s home without knowledge, babysitter is showering and she argues back? Maybe I’m paranoid but I don’t know Seems fishy Hahaha just finished the story yes. My mind jumped straight to cheating
My (ex)husband drove our sitter home everyday - he got home first - and she took a shower in our bathroom off our bdrm - and I felt weird but let it go. Eventually it came out that my instincts were right. And this story felt all too familiar. Best dump the sitter either way. And find a nice old lady!!
For the first story I definitely took a different look at it being a parent who have a partner that doesn't want to get involve. It is nearly impossible to get a parent to connect and try when they genuinely don't want to. If the mom didn't act like she wanted to go, doesn't even bother to do basic things and even said she wasn't going then she doesn't get to be mad that the dad still took the kid trick or treating. And the fact that its being made into a creepy deal about his friend is sexist. If the mom stayed home and had her girl-friend who works from home come over and do things all the time it wouldn't be a big deal. Just another viewpoint from someone in the dads shoes but as a mom.
I completely agree, this standard is usually given to dad to be uninterested in being sahd and now that mom isn’t sahm, dad has to include her, like no if she wants to be included she’ll include herself, but if she was sahm she’d probably do the same thing dad did.
I thought this too!! It’s weird to see them twist it into something more out of pure speculation. I feel like they made too many excuses for the wife tbh and don’t really acknowledge the fact that she isn’t involved but wants OP to almost force the kid to have a good relationship with her.
1000% agree with you. So happy I found this comment. I feel like they were incredibly sexist with this story and applied so much pressure to the dad to get home to involve the kid OWN MUM. That’s just not the involved parent’s responsibility. Feel like if this was a story of a stay at home mum their take would’ve been very different
Idk but I'd feel the same way if it was a mom with a girl friend, both parties should've handled things better, the Mom should've gone anyways but the Dad clearly states that the mom should spend more time with the kid and then does absolutely nothing to help her connect with him. When you're co-parenting you're a team, he should've nudged the kid more about his decision to not include his mom, it's setting a bad status quo.
For Story 4, I think there is just more to it. You have to be petty AF to book your son in first and his wife in economy, especially if your husband just died AND if you knew you son probably needed his wife by his side. There is no way the mom didn't know what she was doing as she didn't say "oh sorry I made a mistake in my grief" or anything like that. I feel like she was using the fact that it was an event "that can't be missed" to make sure she could oppress and humiliate OP. Sometimes, enough is just enough. If OP knew that on top of that, she'd have to deal with MIL's disrespect while staying over there, I can understand she said no. It wasn't great for the husband, I agree. But it comes from a pattern of behaviors ("passive-aggressive at times"), and maybe he should have told his mom to quit it earlier. Just as a reminder, when his mom did this, he told his wide "they'd talk about it later", he was dismissive. When OP did something he didn't like and was probably offensive to his mom, he berated her WHILE HE WAS AT HIS FATHER'S FUNERAL. I think OP took the reasonable decision of removing herself from a situation that would be bad for her. And before someone "but think about his grief"-me, there is no contest in pain. it's not because he's grieving and because MIL is grieving that OP deserves to be treated like shit or that she should stop feeling how she feels. Other people's grief does invalidate how another person feels.
Story #1 could be that the Mom is jealous of the attention her son gets from the Dad. Dad said that the Mom said “I can’t believe YOU went without ME”… She didn’t say “I can’t believe YOU took OUR SON without ME.” She’s a grown woman, if she wanted to be included her sons evening she would have made sure to be prepared and make it happen. She also did not need to have a costume, if she wanted to be there for her son she would have been.
The mom made everything about herself. She should have been there for her son instead of pouting about a costume. I would never have missed trick or treating with my kids when they were little. She also had lots of time to say she wanted her husband to make her a costume if she wanted one.
@@DrkPhoenixit’s not about the costume. It’s about participating in a fun activity with her children. The costumes are just apart of that activity. he literally let his 4 YEAR OLD son decide whether his OWN WIFE could trick or treat with them, just like Morgan and Alejandra said.
@@aletheabarker28i agree but i feel like as a grown woman she could have easily went out with them anyway. Technically, SHE let their 4 year old son dictate wether or not she was going. She could have easily said “regardless of what you want i am coming.” She allowed her 4 year old to tell her that he didn’t want her to go. Parents overrule their kids all the time, why couldn’t she have done that??
For the plane ticket story, I think the MIL did that on purpose to push her buttons and maybe it wasn't the first time it happened. Sometimes it's just the last straw
That's how I viewed it. Everyone sucked. The MIL was a asshole for doing that, idk why they felt her isolating her son on a plane as a "sweet" thing. The husband is a asshole for blowing up at his wife in that moment. I understand he's in pain but directing that pain at others doesn't make you feel any better. The wife is a asshole for leaving. As you said this might be the last straw. We don't know if their relationship was already at rock bottom.
100% agree, the fact that she had to say "if money was the problem she could have booked him and her in coach" and he was still livid about it shows that this isn't a new thing in this family. She's obviously singled out a lot and not being treated like the rest of the family. And when she speaks up about it they gaslight and blame her into feeling guilty.
THANK YOU. this is the first episode where I feel like most stories I didn't agree with the hosts. I agree she probably should have gone to the funeral but this is obviously not the first time MIL did something like this.
Personally, I hate airports and airplanes, so if my SO thought it would be okay to do this, I'd tell him he can go by himself too. Granted I know that's not how everyone works, but if it was me I'd tell them to kick rocks too even if I did or didn't usually get singled out at family things.
I just want to know why they didn’t check the seating arrangements before they got to the airport??? If it was a last minute upgrade there’s not much they could do about that but it sounds like the mom intentionally separated them.
For the first story I wonder if this it would be as “weird” if the genders were reversed. I think he resents her for choosing to not be as involved as he is.
1000% if it was a woman staying at home, it's be his fault for blaming her and not stepping up to help her and it wouldn't be a big deal if it was a woman best friend coming over.
I think it doesn’t go that deep hey. Because his Mum isn’t always around he might not have thought he would have fun with Mum and wanted his Dad and his Mate. They may have a good, fun relationship so he knew he would have more fun doing that with them. Most of the time Kids are just looking for fun and excitement 😄
I wonder if the child didn’t want his mom going because their only interactions are her coaching his behavior, rather than also developing a bond. This is just a guess based off of their small amount of interactions
Definitely NTA for the first story. As someone who grew up with a workaholic narcissistic dad, I see myself in that little kid so much. I understand the mom’s working constantly, but you need to prioritise your kids every now and then and from the reaction of the kid, it seems like she’s never made a genuine effort to spend time with him. I had a very similar relationship with my dad, him never spending time with us or taking out time for us when we or my mom asked him to “because he was too swamped with work”. He would spend his free time by himself, doing his own thing but then not like me and my siblings having one on one time with our mom. It’s a trait very common in narcissistic parents. I don’t understand how people are calling out the dad for being biased when he repeatedly asked their son to include the mom leading up to Halloween? And the obviously sexist take on the son having a close friendship with the dad’s best friend? Surely everyone would have a different reaction if the roles were reversed. I don’t think dad’s the AH for listening to his son. I do think that if the mom wants to be more involved, she shouldn’t let one night ruin her chances of mending her relationship with her child. Son didn’t want to go trick or treating? Okay, try harder next time. Take out time to do little things with him. Mom’s behaviour is just straight up petty and borderline narcissistic. If you’re not a maternal person and aren’t capable of being emotionally close to your child, then don’t get mad when your child starts emotionally distancing himself from you
I’m confused tho. She is making time for her kid to go trick or treating with him. I’d be pissed to if I were made to feel like an outsider in my own family during an event like that. Just cause someone has to work a lot doesn’t mean they are a narcissist. Does that mean that every surgeon, doctor, lawyer, business persons, etc is a narcissist because long hours are a requirement in all of those fields. I’m sorry your dad was a narcissist but that doesn’t suddenly mean that everyone with similar working hours is a narcissist too. The mom is obviously trying to participate but she’s obviously being excluded even if it’s not in a physical way.
@@Ichigo_Hime Yeah I totally get your point as well, definitely not trying to diagnose her here! But as said in the post, the son clearly didn’t want his mom there, it makes you wonder where that’s stemming from? The dad literally says, even when she’s off work during bath time & bed time, it’s just him with the kid. Even if mom is super busy, she can’t be too busy to maintain an emotional connection with her son, right? And the dad did let her know of their plans, so it wasn’t like they blindsided her by not taking her? In fact he tried convincing their son leading up to Halloween but he kept saying no. I’m sure it must’ve felt bad to be left out like that but again, you’re a parent. Take a step back and think about why your son didn’t want you there and don’t give up just because of this one incident. If she’s only mad because she was excluded, and not considering why her son felt that way, then ( as a parent ) that’s kind of immature and yes, narcissistic. But to give them the benefit of the doubt, we are just strangers on the internet and don’t know the full story. I wish them well and hope they fix whatever is going on
@@-rianna She was not ready to have children and she says it, he pushed her to have one, she endup with PPD. And after doing that to her he spend most of his time with his bff, cuddle in the same bed, he also admitted having sexual attraction and fantasies towards him, he let his son called his bff "dad" . During all those years, he has done things to clearly replace the mom, they always hangout even when the mom is at home and he takes the kid so he can't spend time with her. They ended up divorced . So he's clearly the AH
Honestly surprised by your takes on the 4th story. It’s clear that the mother in law prioritized humiliating the daughter in law even on this tragic occasion. And the fact the husband wasn’t more frustrated at the airport by it, or that he didn’t offer to try to get a seat next to her? Highkey grounds for divorce. At this point he’s never going to choose to support his wife over his mom and when his mom takes vindictive pleasure in hurt his wife? That’s a problem.
Yeah, I can totally see that, but the husband could not be thinking clearly. His father just died. It obviously feels like a jab at the DIL, but tbf, this is not the time nor the place to prove a point to the MIL. OP made this tragic situation about her. The MIL is no better, of course, but nonetheless, she should have chosen another time to speak on it or get back at her or just let this one go for once and the next time the MIL acts petty, speak up on it then. But not when your husband clearly needs you during a difficult time.
Wondering if, in the first story the roles where reverse they changed their opinion. I don’t think the dad is the asshole. The closeness any parent has with their kids is on them not on their partner.
I agree, the dad is clearly the default parent and as a default parent myself we don't need another responsibility. It's not the dad's job to make sure his wife spends enough time with their child. The mom should have spoken up sooner if it was really that important to her to trick or treat with the group.
i totally agree especially how they keep mentioning how “weird” it is for the best friend to be involved??? he probably wants to spend time with his friend and the kid is there, i’ve heard a lot of people struggle to remain friends after they have kids(because schedules don’t like up and can’t go to places they used to go because it’s not child friendly) so i think it’s great he has someone else besides his wife as support in a sense. i didn’t think it was anything weird so i was very surprised they kept mentioning how weird it was.
@@lidiacruzgranados yea it seems the friend has been there for the dad and the kid since day 1, when the wife seems to be choosing work over family (I'm assuming since op said their wife could change hours to be more involved but they don't want to)
Omg Alejandra, we could never hate you!! It's so important for women to be honest about not particularly digging kids, because it's OKAY. It's ok to not relate to them/to not feel maternal/to be child-free by choice, etc. Men don't feel the need to apologize for those things. We shouldn't either. And thank you for what you said at the end, about how everyone we've had relationships with (incl friends) has ultimately helped shape us. Really needed to hear that tonight. Much love! 🙏
Second this! Many, many people don't relate to kids, want them, or feel maternal/parental. It's normal, just like wanting or not wanting anything else for your life is normal! I'm so glad more women in particular are talking openly about this, though. Gives me hope that future generations will understand from the start that they truly have a choice. I remember as a kid I was terrified to grow up because I didn't want children and I thought it would just happen one day whether I wanted it or not, because that was what women did. They became moms. I'm so glad more of us are understanding that we don't have to become moms if that's not where our heart lies!
We need an episode with full conclusions because some of these stories leave me so unfulfilled that we don't know the resolutions! Lol Titled something like The Final Update 😂
I definitely feel like in the first story we’re focusing on the fact that it’s the mom that’s distant too much. If we take away the genders of the parents we’d say that the distant parent needs to take some initiative to be a part of their kids life. I understand that it hurts for your child not to want to match with you but she was still invited and if she really wanted too she would still go.
@@djenabdrame8707ngl no one can FORCE you to have kids if she really didn’t want em she shouldn’t have had em. thats her problem why have a kid to please someone?
For the 4th story, I do think she should’ve gone to the funeral. The real problem is that if this is the type of relationship her MIL has with her, it will never be approached. Say months pass by, and she brings it up to husband, he’s going to say “it was hard for her”, ‘she wasn’t in her right mind”, “she was emotional” etc, etc. it seems like this is an existing thing in the relationship, and I think this might’ve been her breaking point. Or at least that’s how it seems to me.
Ngl if there’s ever a time I’m gonna let my MIL be a bitch to me it’s gonna be when her husband just died I don’t care what shit she throws at me when my husband is sat sobbing the whole car ride I’m sure they’ll be another time of her kicking up a fuss for me to lose it at
@@blackgirlmagicc lol, that’s why I’m like, she should’ve gone, husband should’ve been the priority here, but I also feel like the MIL has done stuff like this before with the husband not caring (but that’s what it seems to me if not, she needs to get her priorities fixed)
@Ellia Kramer I 100% agree with you, absolutely no chance I would be going when my husband is on the same plane enjoying first class while I am alone in economy class. How humiliating
That’s not too weird. Op said he switched shifts because he wasn’t feeling great. I can imagine wanting to take advantage of having help around so you can rest without looking after kids.
When I was a babysitter in college, the dad would come home from work a lot before the mom, and he wouldn’t let me leave because he didn’t ant to watch his own kid 😂 I always felt awkward
As someone who was traumatized when my dad’s side of the family manipulated us into giving “to remember” and then “borrowed” cars and took our home days after my dad passed. My head went right to that. Those are the same exact patterns. As soon as I heard he was “borrowing,” I knew they’re not considering her to be the owner of anything and that’s where that entitlement is coming from. Some people take advantage of someone’s mourning to take. And that’s just the sad reality. Not everyone will hold you tight and mourn with you. I definitely agree with the top comment. She should change the locks and pack for them. For her own sanity and safety. My family took so much that I have missing pieces of my dad’s life. A life I very much remember even if I was so young. It causes major trust issues when someone uses mourning against you. I still miss my dad’s guitar. So many fond memories I have of him playing for us…I’ll never get that back. I definitely don’t want OP to be robbed of more than she already has. People show their true colors when someone passes.
Actions like that shouldn’t be taken lightly. My mom wasn’t in a state to fight back when they planned what they did. And after, they got to split up what they had gained through deception and manipulation of a kind heart. By the time one realizes that, it’s too late and damn it takes years to rebuild.
For the first clasa vs economy story - can't help but feel like everyone is being too harsh on OP. The mean mother-in-law is getting way to much slack cut off for her. What I feel is missing from the conversation's naunce is the first that DESPITE HER HUSBAND DYING, AND HER BEING IN THE DEEPEST DEPTHS OF GRIEF, SHE STILL FOUND IT WITHIN HERSELF TO MAKE TIME AND ARRANGEMENTS TO BE CRUEL TO HER DAUGHTER-IN-LAW. How can we (or OP) look over that? It just blows my mind, because you'd think instead of trying to hurt someone else. the MIL would rather be focused on trying to heal her family. OP's reaction was unfortunate and it's sad that her husband (the son) bore the burnt of it all, but I can't say that she is 100% the AH - maybe 45% 😂
About the first story. I don’t think is a good idea to let a 4 year old decide, but I think is necessary that the mom needs to hear that her son saying that so she realises that needs to have more time with her child
@@demia55 yep also the husband should talk with his wife about what their son said so she understands that the child feels that ways because she is never around ( or only a few times)
@@vanesab4089 some people just don't care and seeing as she wasn't bothered by the kid saying it in front of her face and then only being upset for not having been made a costume she stated she wouldn't wear anyway, she is totally the type. The kid is 4 and if they alr feel as they feel it must be something more than just not spending enough time with the kid but more like nearly no time at all or just avoiding it as best she can.
@@duqial yep I know. One last try doesn’t hurt. The kid is young and if she regrets it later, it’s gonna be harder to have a good and healthy relationship with her child. Sometime people do not notice how much can hurt someone until is too late to fixed it, so as the husband I would talk to her and if he already have then whatever, at least the kid has his father and the friend of the father
For story 1... I don't know, i respect the dad for actually listening to his kid and allowing him to pick who he wants to go trick or treating with, instead of forcing a bonding experience between him (his son) and his mom. He did ask multiple times if he wanted to take her and he said no. Most parents would override the kid's decision and go anyway, but they never take the time to realize how that'll affect the child's self esteem in decision making. Good on the dad.
Right?! The dad is actually communicating with and listening to the child, and the mom only cares when it becomes obvious to her that she'd be publicly missing from an event where people might note her absence. That's caring about yourself using your child, not caring about your child.
Story 1: As a mom who is either at work/school all day, definitely think that if mom wanted to be there she would have. On Halloween my baby & her dad & his fam. went w/o me bc I was at work, and as soon as I got off I went to the neighborhood and went to him & my daughter for trick or treating with my uniform on. I just think if she wanted to go, she would’ve gone costume or not. Plus he is at the age where he is starting to advocate for himself so it’s not a big deal there’s other times where mom will be included and not dad. (As a person who also doesn’t care too much about Halloween)
Yeah aslo the dad asked the kid multiple times IN FRONT of the wife what character she wanted her to be, that would have been the perfect opportunity for her to ask the husband for a costume even if the kid said no, but she chose to act like a child because she didn't magically have a costume ready last minute
I was an overnight nanny for a flight attendant, no problem with showering or tutoring her children, but trying to clean and organize her pantry since things were falling out every-time the it was opened, that was me crossing a line.
For that widow dealing with her late husband’s family…My heart goes out to her. I would have been so furious because of how devastating that would be. His journey for her through this grief…ruined.
Story 4: OP not going is exactly what MIL wanted. MIL did it on purpose to cause a fight and then to use against her later to try to split up OP and her husband.
@𝑴𝒂𝒆𝒍𝒊. no, if her husband saw no problem with it, he's the one that actually fell for mommy dearest's plans. He's the asshole too, at that point, he should've asked to be downgraded to economy lol
@@Alex-qn4hbexactly this. I don't know why people think you have to put up with other people's shitty actions during grief, it's not an excuse. In fact, it shouldn't even be on MIL's mind to be planning something like this and it tells you a LOT about MIL's main concern, which was not grieving her recently passed husband. It sounds like this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I hope OP found herself a better husband🤷🏻♀️
The story about the girl showering: I think people jump to cheating too quickly. I was a nanny and there were times that the dad would work from home or just not feel well and taking care of a child can be even more exhausting. When you have a kid and aren’t feeling well or just need a day, you (typically) have a partner to help. If your partner is unavailable, it can be really helpful to have a second set of hands. I think the girl definitely needs to apologize and respect that the mother is uncomfortable with what happened. I also understand why the girl would want to shower-milk smells awful when it dries. Although, she could have also just changed and washed the bit of her hair in the sink until she could get home.
OP was more upset about the possibility of her husband cheating than anything else. If you have the money to hire a nanny while your not at home, I wouldn't really be too concerned about whether or not their taking showers in my house
But don’t you think it’s sus that he was home and didn’t tell wife? That’s what pisses me off. It would be natural to say, I’m sick and I’m so glad nanny is here because I could really use the rest. But still should have sent her home when she was covered in milk.
Kids are messy. I would never expect a nanny/sitter to sit around all day covered in my kids’ mess. If the woman doesn’t trust her husband with the nanny, that’s a separate issue.
Story 3: I think the BIL's family is trying to pressure OP out of the house by making the environment toxic. The family clearly doesn't like or respect her, she has no kids, and the house has monetary value. They want to take it from her for BIL's kids. Absolutely disgusting.
I agree on the part of "if she really truly wanted to go she could've said "hey I wanna go to, can you make on for me also?'"" She clearly knew ahead of time since she was hurt when the kid said he didn't want her to go. Sure the kid doesn't have a say but at that moment the mom should've realized she needed to step up and insisted on going or at least do some fun activities with her child if she couldn't go trick or treating with her child. Pumpkin patch, decorating the house, helping make the costumes when she has time, etc. The dad respected his sons feelings, which in other cases it would've been applauded because they are considering their kids feelings. He expressed himself the same way some women do about their husbands when they aren't involved in their kids lives just like in this story. Why is it an issue here? If the mom doesn't fix the problem now, then it will only get worse in the future. My dad worked ALOT when i was a kid and he did miss many moments of my childhood, but when he had time he would spend that time with my brothers and I (especially on major family holidays like Xmas) and we would hang out as a family, he wanted to so he did. If she wanted to, she would. Also, calling the friend "sus" bc they have a good relationship with the child? Kinda weird and should also say a lot about how the friends seems to be a bit more in the child's life than the actual mom. Just because the friend cares and is in the child's life doesn't always mean it's sus, just that they have a great friendship. NTA
@@TwoHotTakes she got upset the day they were getting ready and he said that if she wanted to, she could’ve asked and he would’ve made her one or she could just buy a different costume. She knew but still didn’t request one and got upset about it the day of. Sure not matching with them sucks but if she wanted to really go, she could’ve pulled together a costume last minute or something, he probably would’ve helped her try to match at least
@@TwoHotTakes I notice this all the time you do one cursory reading and then go on your long answers that completely blow past important story details. There’s lots of assumptions made that change the essence of the stories you read
I understand that OP was an asshole in story 3 but really that husband should have stuck up for his wife and asked for an economy seat. The MIL was trying to stir drama and the husband did not defend his wife. I don't know why y'all are jumping through hoops to defend the assholes this episode lol Edit: I did not catch it until you read the edit, the husband didn't even tell her until they were at the airport?! NAH HE FRICKING KNEW. He knew how she'd feel and waited until the last minute to tell her in hopes that she was just give in. OP was blindsided by the betrayal AT THE AIRPORT. Everybody sucks here but the husband and MIL are 100% assholes.
The story with the woman whose husband died, and the kids open her gifts, I so badly want to go to her home, fix the broken gifts and rewrap them for her😢
The first story... the mother didn't even ask what the plans were. A 4 year old knows what they want a lot more than people give credit for. My daughter is 3 and she knows what she wants and sometimes that not being around the parent in that moment. He tried to include the mom and the child didn't want to include her. He's nta you also can't force a 4 year old to include one parent if they don't want to
I don't know about the first story. I feel like they have a communication barrier. He said that he asked the kid at dinner and later multiple times. Mom has dinner with them so she knew. She could have talked to him or the son, saying 'why don't you want me there, kiddo? or "Husband, could you help me talk to the kid so I can find out what's going on?" If her not being present has been going on for a few years then I feel like it might be understandable that the husband didn't push it. Also, I think we're glossing over something pretty important here. We talk all the time about how much stay-at-home moms do. Taking into account if this guy does the same. cooking, cleaning, laundry, taking the kid around, errands etcetera, I don't blame him for to making an extra costume if he didn't think it was needed. She could have stepped in any time and said make me one too. She didn't. This is entirely on her. As for the friend, brunch every day is a bit excessive (maybe the friend doesn't have family around?) but I honestly don't think the relationship is weird. It takes a village and if the guy helps out, it should not be called weird. Again, this has been going on for four years so where is the communication. If the mom really hates it, why was nothing said before? Obviously, they are having problems. I do believe this guy was being petty in some regards (uncalled comments about her maternal abilities, focusing on her hours- again communication issue) but from the info we have, I don't think the relationship with his friend is weird and I don't think he pushed her out. Obviously, this is one side, but if he's an asshole, I don't think he's the only one here. Unless there is something big we're missing from the wife's side.
I’m getting so frustrated with the comments (and the girls honestly) saying that the husband was at fault in story 1 😣. He brought it up multiple times to the kid to they changed their mind and there was no budging. I think that’s the most he could do because it seemed like the mom wasn’t interested at all assuming she was around to hear them talking about it.
For the funeral story...looking at it from the husbands perspective... If my father had just died and I couldn't sit with my spouse on the plane ride to his funeral I would have a terrible time. I would not want to do that. It's bizarre that the husband doesn't want his wife to sit with him. That is a bigger problem. You are married. Your spouse comes first in almost every circumstance. I feel like he doesn't like his wife to begin with.
@𝑴𝒂𝒆𝒍𝒊. and if i had literally just lost one of my parents i'd be upset to have to sit alone, first class ticket aside. you're missing the point entirely. are you the 4th OP's husband or mom secretly or something? i've seen you make multiple of these wildly defensive comments
@@superzooperhaze6597I'm sorry, but I'm in agreement with @ partylikeanavatar. He just lost his father. He's probably so distraught he isn't thinking straight. Yes, I wouldn't want to be alone either, but people also grieve differently. Some people need to be alone in order to process that grief. Yeah, the MIL is definitely an AH for using this time to get at her DIL, but OP should have picked a different time and place to deal with this.
Everyone grieves differently. After I have a very emotional episode (like she described him having in the car), I often go numb and don't really need company or comfort. This is even more likely if I have to keep it together in public, like at an airport (it's a normal defense mechanism, since the alternative would be sobbing in front of everyone). Judging how he views his wife based on one situation, when he just lost his father, is unfair. He may have just wanted to get there as quick as possible and deal with the tension between his mom and wife later, after he had at least some time to grieve. Maybe he was exhausted from all the emotion and wanted to sleep through the flight. And yeah, your spouse comes first, and you should pick up the slack when they can't put in as much. Losing a parent is one of the biggest reasons to need your partner's support, and it's shitty that she didn't put her pride aside and put him first in this situation.
Exactly this. It sounds like an on-going problem with MIL. I strongly suspect MIL is the typical boy mom and is threatened by OP, otherwise, who the hell is thinking to be so petty during a time of great loss? It says a LOT about MIL's priorities imo. Sure, it could have been the last two seats on the plane but that's just an assumption at the end of the day.
For the second story, my mind also didn’t go straight to cheating from the husband! That happened to me all the time with one family I babysat. The dad would come home before the mom and wouldn’t tell me I could go home. He just went to the room to play video games, and relaxed from work. Once the mom came home, THEN I would get my payment and say ‘have a good night’. I didn’t find that weird at all from the story
For Story 1 I disagree completely, it's the same usual story where usually it's the father that works and doesn't spend a lot of time with the children I think it's the same vice versa. His best friend is literally just there as his support system, and I think it's unfair to make a romantic relationship speculation of their relationship. The mom doesn't spend time with the child hence causing the strain in their relationship she could've came and he told her and she literally didn't. With a costume or not she could've came. She is neglecting the child and I love how no one pointed that out.
Also about Story 4 I don't think it's that she wanted to leave his side I think there was an attitude change she seemed to notice because the way he described it, he didn't really seem to care of they were seperate and she wanted to be by his side. I think that's why she was so hurt, and maybe she misinterpreted what he meant but I think she just felt heartbroken in the moment cause she felt like her support was needed. (Which I would say could also potentially be a problem if it's a persistent thing she does)
As someone who experienced a similar situation, but genders reversed, I disagree. My father had depression, he was a workaholic who never really spent a ton of time with us. However, my mom never got her best friend to take his place or excluded him from matching with us even when any of the kids said "We don't want dad!" Mom would tell us that we either bring him or don't go at all. With depression involved he would not ever take the first step. He clearly puts her down constant through the story, he knew she wanted to be involved but he let a 4 YEAR OLD dictate whether to involve her or not. I don't know her side, I don't know if she had depression, however his actions were very unwelcoming and he clearly did not care if she was there or not. If I felt unwelcome and out of place I wouldn't have gone either. I am also a stay at home mom now. My husband works two jobs and most of the time is only home to sleep. If he wanted to join, I would have made sure he was welcome and given a matching costume. I have in the past which there have been times he didn'ttake me up on it, I will continue to do so out of respect to him. The father in the story is an AH in my opinion, if roles were reversed I'd feel the mother was the AH.
@@ec9482 I agree! The father is listening to a 4 yr old instead of teaching him about uniting the family. He should've gone to his wife and had a conversation.
@@hollystiener16You sound like you don't have any experience with a neglectful and absent parent. No amount of the other parent having a "conversation" makes them participate in the kid's life. TRUST ME on this. When they're absent, they're absent-and if they ever become present, it's usually 30 years down the line when they're older and retired and feeling some regret. OP shouldn't have to have a conversation with his wife about "Hey, it's Halloween, you should go trick or treating with us." She should have already BEEN there, BEEN planning, BEEN involved. But like all absent workaholic parents...she wasn't-and no amount of prodding from OP will make her be. You can drag a horse to the water but you can't make it drink.
My sister had to shower once or twice and borrow the mom’s clothes while babysitting because of the projectile vomit and constant spit up 😅 but clearly she checked with the parents first
I want to say with the first one: the comments and opinions would be so different if it was the mom present and an absent dad. It’s so normalized for women to be close with their friends kids but considered creepy when it’s a man. The fact that a 4 year old said he doesn’t want his mom to go with them is alarming. That means he is not in anyway attached to her.
Yes and I agree with you. I guess my question is this: what do you do? Widen the gap between them or try to help bridge their closeness? Again I’m not a parent so I’m genuinely curious. I do appreciate your view, really got me thinking!
I agree almost completely. But I think that saying that is the 4 year old's way of asking for attention. He wants his mom to tell him she wants to come, not his dad (to tell him that)
exactly. I don't think they'd be disagreeing if it was a mom saying the father could work less and make more of an effort to spend time with the kid. the fact that she didn't even know about the costumes until the last minute tells me she has little to no involvement in her family's life. and then she made it about her, not the fact that her son doesn't care if she's there or not because he's just so used to her not being around. jobs are replaceable but time is not.
Agree but for a different reason! Why is it normalized for fathers to be “working men” and “distant,” and for women to be the maternal caretakers? Their dynamic is just like any other working parent/stay at home parent, but mom is getting shamed for her lack of “maternal” instinct.
With story 1 I feel sorry for the child. Why did she assume that he would make a costume for her? It’s not the dads fault that the mother is already lacking when it comes to being there for her child. All he has to do is encourage the relationship to grow. She’s is obviously aware that they have a tighter bond and is lashing out.
I would 100% assume that my husband is making a costume for me. My only question would have been “who am I going to be.” And if I was the one making the costumes and my husband didn’t bring it up, I would have assumed that he wanted one and asked who he wanted to be. They part that I can’t get past is that neither of them talked to each other about it until the night of.
1:16:54 my best friend was in the ICU and I got a call in the middle of class saying that we needed to be by her side that day because things weren’t looking right. I approached my professor in tears and told her I had to go. She told me that I should just drop out of the program and that if I left, she’d be marking me as absent. (Attendance checking was already done at that point) I do not regret leaving because I would have hated myself if that were her final day and I didn’t get to say goodbye. I thank the stars that she stabilized a few days later
the last story got me crying 😭 that's so sweet and thoughtful of him to do for her while shes sick. he knows its super important to her. Good job to that guy!
Right! We always say for men “if he wanted to, he would”. This isn’t any different. She’s had 4 years to actively participate in their son’s life, she doesn’t get to sulk that now her son is matching her effort.
When you talked about teachers asking for a death certificate, it reminded me that I had a professor who told our class that he doesn't ask questions for if we have to leave class. The only time he did was when a student missed 3 different weeks saying grandparents died each week. He asked and it turned her maternal grandma died for disease, her maternal grandpa k!//ed himself soon after from grief, and then a paternal grandparent died of old age. She sent the obituaries and he felt so crappy cause dang that's a lot for her handle, and he was super sorry and worked with her to fill in those weeks work.
is it just me or is anyone else not a fan of them automatically going “mmm that best friend is suspicious” almost every time without fail? (I love the podcast just a pet peeve lol)
Yeah I feel like they were focusing on the wrong aspects of the story. Like totally ignoring that it’s a little alarming that a four year old doesn’t want mom around. Kids, even that young, are pretty open about stuff. Could be an indicator of a larger issue. I think too much of the blame was being out on the dad.
No one gave me a second glass when I was starting to be involved in my best friend's daughter's life. Then she became my sister and moved in so I was there for some mornings and bedtimes. No one thought "Oh they're probably getting it on." Was it because we're two women? OP's friend is a support system. You have to be close to the kid to be able to say "You're not feeling well, take a nap and I'll go fetch your kid from daycare." Or "Hey there's food, bring your kid." It's normal for stay at home parents to have friends who get to know their kid well enough to go trick or treating with them, it's kind of insulting because the stay at home parent is male everyone just assumes his friendship is inappropriate.
They taking advantage of the woman in story 3. Wtf. It’s disgusting that they even asked a woman that’s barely been grieving a month to host ppl. That tells me all I need to know about the husbands family. If he wanted his brother to have the house he would have willed it to him. They would have 1 hr to leave my house or id fr call the police
The story about the widow with the brother in law and his kids mooching off her, and worming himself into his brother's life, my mom and I went through this. After my father passed, two months before my tenth birthday, they started taking my dads stuff. They took all pictures of my dad, out of our family albums. I only have four pictures of my dad. They took all his possessions. All I have of my father is four photo's, his wallet and watch. They not only took his things, but all our things as well, clothing, shoes, toys etc. We had to start over from scratch, in a neighboring country.
I already listened to this but I came to say I was like, is this a Mandela effect? When Alejandra said “powder” I was like have I been saying it wrong my whole life? Hahahahhaha the energy on this episode was ✨immaculate✨ love you girls! This has been one of my fav episodes lately!!!!
Can’t help but think the mum is being neglectful of the son if she makes no attempt to be around him. If OP was a woman I’d be inclined to say the workaholic husband would be neglecting the kid and having the “I bring home the money you do everything else” attitude which I find really irritating. Keeping my logic consistent I have to say the same about the Mum. If you know you’re not very maternal/paternal you should consider not having kids. You don’t have to be outright abusive to mess up your kid. The indifference can be so damaging.
Thanks for sharing! Mom definitely needs to put in more effort. It is interesting we give breadwinning dads more of a pass usually on not being as involved or playing more active roles in parenting. Hmm. Your comment also is making me wonder if she wanted to be child free and was pressured with the trade off of "ill be a SAHD".. I'm so curious about the WHOLE story awhhh
@@TwoHotTakes as a parent myself who sees this conflict within stay at home parents & their partners often, i definitely dont think moms give their husbands a pass on this. except for trad wives who think their only duty is to serve their husband and raise children. unequal division of domestic labor is one of the most common reasons for divorce.
@Becca f I definitely agree. I also feel like people make it the stay at home parent's job to make sure there is a good relationship between the child and working parent. The stay at home dad in this story obviously wants the mom and son to have a better relationship (even if he says he's not resentful) but you can't just explain your kid into having a relationship with their mom. The mom actually has to put in effort. The dad could talk to the kid until he's blue in the face about them all being a family, but until the mom actually tries to bond with him, that kid will not have a good relationship with her. It's the kind of situation that easily evolves into "Why don't my kids ever talk to me" years down the road, when you never even made the effort to really get know your kids because you were always busy with something else or my personal favorite "too tired to deal with them after work".
Story 1: Tbh she could have went without a costume. It’s normal for parents not to dress up while their kids go trick or treating. However, I do agree he should have talked to his kid about wanting to have his mom there and to not dictate who goes and who doesn’t.
I completely disagree on the fourth story. In the moment I probably would have gone home too. His mother has a history of being mean spirited and booking OP tickets in economy feels like it’s saying “I don’t even want you at the funeral but seeing as I have to I’ll spend as little money as possible on you specifically” which is a disgusting thing to do to your child’s partner grieving or not, and OP’s husband knew they were going to have separate seats and didn’t say a peep. Not even a lick of communication to say anything like “these are the only seats available for the next few flights and we’ll miss the funeral” or “we could switch off after half the flight so we both get to experience luxury” or “I really think some hours of space and quiet will help me compartmentalize this”. Yes his dad just died, but if he’s sobbing all the way to the airport and needed her emotional support then, why doesn’t he need it on the hours long flight? Why does that suddenly turn off at the gates? Why were the only words and explanation “Deal with it, we can talk about it later.” At the end of the day, loss and grief or not, that’s his partner. I can’t imagine a world where I’d have a partner that wouldn’t ask to switch their ticket to economy or buy their own economy ticket so that we could sit together especially if we were separated while either of us were heavily grieving. You can say it’s not the right time to die on the hill, but if I’m not wanted or respected to that degree I can go back home and save the trouble of facing even more of it in person. There’s no reason or justification that me coming with my partner to help them grieve the loss of their father should be so threatening that there’s problems being made, purposely, as early as the plane ride home. There’s no way it wasn’t purposeful with the way zero details were given until they were literally about to board/boarding.
i get what you are saying but the issue is time and place. what the mil did was asshole-ish but she can deal with that later. her husband needed her and she left him alone AFTER HE’S DAD JUST DIED bc of a plane ticket, that is also asshole-ish. i think everyone sucks here.
Yes!! Both the husband and MIL are acting like they don't even like the wife. Understandably sometimes MILs are trash but then you should be able to expect for your partner to be YOUR PARTNER and not their mama's baby.
Morgan crying about not being able to "appropriately" thank the listeners had me on the verge of tears. For the record, you (Morgan & Co., if you're seeing this) putting your whole ass into the podcast is thanks enough. And really, we should be the ones thanking you for making consistently good content and fostering such a wholesome community❤
The first story is the perfect example of addressing issues earlier on so that the mother can start spending time on just a normal day and work her way up to holidays, celebrations or functions.
If I was the nanny, I would have asked to just go home since the father was home. Makes no sense to stay and shower at work, let alone a house that isn’t yours.
As a nanny a bit of perspective…. The fact that you’re immediately sexualizing the woman that you hired to care for your kids is also the issue. Just because someone is in your home with your husband doesn’t mean she’s trying to sleep with him. It makes us really uncomfortable that people are so uncomfortable with a woman in your home. Don’t have a nanny then.
If you've already got a nanny booked, and she's literally already there, then it only makes sense to have her watch every parent desperately needs any break they can get.
Okay I might be the unpopular opinion here for the first story. NTA. I firmly believe that no one should be forced to spend time with someone, and that extends to family. My mom agrees, and her reasoning has always been “I’d rather you choose to come and enjoy yourself than HAVE to come and be miserable”. When family or friends were over that I was less close to, I’d say hi and spend most of the time in my room or out in the living room but on my computer. The dad here didn’t disallow mom from coming, just didn’t actively push her to come. Like he said, she could’ve said she wanted to go and he would’ve made it happen, but because she didn’t and their son wanted just him and friend to go anyway he just let it be. If she wanted to make it happen, she could. And the fact that a FOUR YEAR OLD has that little of attachment to his mom that he’d rather not have her there tells me that she’s likely truly emotionally absent in their relationship.
I completely agree. I got a little mad during the story because of how off-base I feel Morgan and Alejandra were. It's like they ignored that she doesn't even try to spend time with their son when she is home. Idk. It seemed a little weird when I feel their takes are usually pretty spot on, or close enough to how I feel that I can understand where they're coming from.
@@LillithRoze I think mom was just really hurt :/ can you imagine hearing your kid doesn't want you to come with.. I'd be gutted. It is her job to step up but they could be more of a team in it was my thought. Hopefully she takes this as a light bulb moment to get it together.
@@TwoHotTakes mom had weeks of dad working on the costumes to say something and make her desire to be included known. Communication works both ways. This just shows that yeah she's hurt, but she didn't care enough to to be firm. She's acting like she's not another adult here.
Agreed with the points. Also speaking of the friend, if roles were reversed and the mom was home all the time with the son, being the default parent, it would be considered awesome if she had a friend to help her out and have the “bestie aunt” and it wouldn’t be weird.
My moms a doctor, and my stepdad was a stay at home dad. She worked her ASS off as a primary care physician at a teaching hospital and she specializes in OB as well. When i was small before she got married, i went to every single 3am delivery with her. I saw my first baby come out at the age of 5 (with patient consent of course), but i also spent plenty of time in her office at the hospital hanging out with other staff. After she got married and had my sisters, she still worked her ass off but when she WAS at home, she was mom. Every moment she could spend with us or doing something for us she did, and she never took time to herself while we were awake and at home. She did that when we were all asleep. Yes, we wished she'd had more time with us, but the difference is that she made the little bit of time she did have with us count.
Story 3 reminded me of someone I knew. This older women she was so kind, she married this man who had older kids (the kids didn't live with them for to long, eventually grew up and moved out). She has a good relationship with the kids. Well eventually her husband got very sick and couldn't work. So she was the main breadwinner. The day her husband died. The kids came into the house and took anything of high value or things they thought where his. She was completely crushed. So for story 3, it does seem harsh that she would just pack up there stuff and get the police on it, but I would rather that then all my loved one stuff gone.
Idk, I don’t agree w the first story’s conclusion, respectfully. It almost seemed as if some people think that it’s the fathers responsibility for the mom and the sons relationship. The dad definitely worded somethings in a weird way but the scenario itself the mom seemed to be uninterested in the child’s life and seemed to just be petty. She did say “I wasn’t planning on going anyway”, if I remember correctly. It’s on her to be involved and caring towards her son, it’s not a husband and wife problem it’s about her connection to her son or lack there of
Thanks for sharing! This is definitely one of the Reddit stories where I hope she finds it and writes her side.. I think there is a lot more going on here than he shared. 🙈
@@TwoHotTakes I agree I hope if she does we see it on a future episode. Love the podcast btw I appreciate hearing your opinions on the stories, my sister and I watch the podcast together and we love coming up with our own conclusions lol💕
@@TwoHotTakes that may be true but I also think you’re extending this grace because the husband is the one telling the story. There may be more going on but based on the info we were given the mother is the asshole. She chose not to go, was the husband supposed to ruin the child’s Halloween because of her?
I 100% disagree with your take on the first story. I do supervised visitation between foster kids and their parents for the purpose of assessing their interactions/safety for documentation purposes to be used for court purposes. Over the years I have learned that 1) just because you you biologically are a parent doesn’t automatically make you a “mom” or “dad.” That title has to be earned 2) just because you love your child and want the best for them doesn’t mean you want to actually parents them 3) affection isn’t automatic and it too has to be earned. In this episode you talked about the mom being slighted, but appeared to overlook the possibility of how many times the child was slighted when the mom failed to participate in activities and daily rituals. If this 4-year-old is used to mom not participating or not making the event fun (such as being on a phone or not appearing as if actively interested), even a child that young is going to pick up on this. But on the other hand, if the best friend is going out of his way to participate in this child’s life and expresses being eager to do these fun things, such as wearing a costume for Halloween, well then of course the child is going to want to choose the best friend over the mom. And it’s the same reasoning as to why the dad would prefer to spend such an event with the best friend. I truly think that if the genders were reversed you would be giving the dad shit for not actively participates in the child’s life. When I was four, my dad rode a train to work 5 days a week, worked 9-5, rode the train home, spent time with his kids over dinner, gave all three kids baths, and then rode the train back into the city to attend night classes at Drexel. It would have been so much easier to just stay in the city and use the time in between to study, but he loved his kids and wanted to have time to connect with them.
When it comes to the story about the husband passing away and the brother in the house, I completely understand what one of the commenters had to say. I lost my dad 9 years ago and it taught me that through grief people will show their true colours and become as selfish as possible. I haven’t spoken to my grandparents or most of my dad siblings since he died. A few months after his passing my uncle (my dads youngest brother) came to my house and took my dads beloved snowmobile without talking to us about it first. All in all, I think going to the most drastic measures to make sure none of your things are taken is the right step. Even family can unfortunately back stab you in really hard times :(
Story 4 I’m gonna go with. She has endured a lot of disrespect at the hands of the sociopathic narcissist, that is her mother in law, because to be that strategic when your husband has died, takes a disconnect from your emotions that is arguably clinical and the wife pick the worst time humanly possible to stand up for herself she picked a time that most people would pick to let transgressions go, but she let them build up, didn’t stick up for herself to begin with, and met her with, and when it was inconvenient, I’ve personally been guilty of this many times before she has a lot of development to do when it comes to boundary setting with her mother-in-law and her husband in general probably so I don’t close the book on she’s in the wrong but I do close it on. This was the wrong time and so if she wants to salvage the relationship and apologize for that definitely but I mean she’s not wrong and not taking that disrespect, but this was maybe a day to take it on the chin and the other days where she did take it on the chin which I will assume we’re not the right time to take it on the chin. However I think there’s also something to be said about feeling like you’re not wanted there when you’re going to support someone and you’re getting slighted and passive aggressively insulted it’s just like y’all take this time to grieve because emotional support I can do but punching bag absolutely not
thank you! like i definitely feel op saying they basically prioritized not including her even at their worst times of literally their closest relative dying and already treating her like that before she even arrived. i Can only imagine how they treat her on good occasions and when she got there. plus her husband seems too used to this behavior telling her to “shut up and go with it”. easy to say when you’re literally riding in first class… didn’t even feel isolated enough to try to switch seats so obviously wasn’t too lonely without her… probably only would have thought of her after he no longer had his mothers shoulder to cry on
Exactly! It wasn’t the best time to take a stand, sure, but it was such a toxic move and it didn’t sound like her husband stood up for her then or maybe not ever. Why go if you’re obviously not wanted.
@@amypallozzi nah imo it’s the best time to take a stand bc okay I can get not wanting to ruin a good time/moment when “you’re the only one not having fun” but in a time where we ALL need family/are grieving you really wanna isolate me and cast me aside? don’t blame someone for putting you in place when you felt no remorse kicking them while you BOTH are down. she’s not his gf it’s his wife and if he really wanna pull the “stand by me” card he also has to acknowledge she lost family too
I paused and asked my husband his thoughts on the showering babysitter. His first comment was why was her hair wet. I said bingo. Then he was like moms take care of kids while sick all the time, why didn’t dad send the baby sitter home? The facts she had the audacity to argue with the mom, immediately no. Fired on the spot cause homegirl was feeling territorial and it’s giving disrespectful and outta pocket.
Omf I didn’t even pick up on the detail that her hair was wet. Maybe it’s just me, but if I’m taking an impromptu shower somewhere where I’m not already comfy (like getting milk on you while babysitting), I would put up my hair, quickly wash my body, then get out and dry off asap. The wet hair is the smoking gun for me.
If im trying to be quick in the shower im not going to go out of my way to stop my hair from getting wet. It takes longer to move the showerhead around as I wash myself to prevent wet hair than it is to just let it get wet.
@@Lyysabeth as a black woman we do this every day. Long hair pin it up. Short hair no worries. It’s easy to take a quick rinse and not get wet. Better yet don’t shower in a strangers home. Even beyond the wet hair it was disrespectful for her to argue with the mom. If I tell someone I don’t appreciate and or like something they did in my home and the next and only words aren’t sorry and it won’t happen again, it’s a mf problem.
I agree but I also think maybe that's why she showered? Maybe it got in her hair or something too? I definitely felt like mom was overreacting a lot here, though I do get that the babysitter should have just accepted it, too. Her house, her rules, alla that. But I probably would have done the same thing if this is really what went down here. I probably wouldn't have felt like it was so crazy to consider tbh. Buuuut I am very weirded out that the husband happened to be here for this particular instance.
The BIL story… it’s like no one has ever seen John wick! Something was taken away from him during a time of intense grief, and he went on a rampage!!! The fact that she’s just kicking them out and not going john wick on their asses is kind of a miracle!
Yes its like a 2nd podcast we started with spotify! We do it live every Tuesday where listeners can join in and chat with us and then its on the regular spotify app Friday. It's linked in the show description :)
