I think the sort of argument you are combatting here may sometimes come from a difference in understanding what the role of a pastor is - in many leadership structures preaching and teaching would be distinct ministries where being a pastor would solely relate to personal support and nurture - a task where wrangling with the primary texts may not seem an immediately crucial qualification for the task. I think to be honest there may also be a degree of reverse snobbery, insecurity or romanticism about the role informing such comments - “the earliest apostles were uneducated fishermen and I’m just a down home plain spoken working class type like them and don’t need any of that high faluting , elitist book learning to communicate the heart of God.” As you say if you take that view and accrediting seminaries buy into it, then you leave yourselves dependent on the work of others - much of which you won’t understand and probably won’t read even in Logos, thus leaving your flock either shortchanged and dependent on you as third-handers or, if they are diligent and able , way ahead of you. Anyone in a teaching position takes on a fearful responsibility to rightly divide the word of truth and guard the flock from error and I find it difficult to see how you can do that without at least enough grasp of the languages to make credible judgements about what you are reading. Finally I would say that such views can also stem from an attitude of ingratitude, in an era when we are blessed with an abundance of resources for learning the languages that other generations and other parts of the World Church even today can only dream of, how dare we turn our nose up at the opportunities we are offered? If students in Western universities take the lazy route out, who will be in a position to help their fellow Christians by participating in the task of translation or of communicating the gospel to those who may not even have a Bible in their own language, much less be equipped to grapple with Greek and Hebrew texts and write their own commentaries in their own language and culture? Thankfully in many countries Christians are taking their learning into their own hands and are demanding to learn the languages so they can do just that, but if the Western Church wants to become an irrelevance , or worse still a purveyor of tired secondhand substandard teaching to churches in the developing world , then losing the languages is a quick way to do it and to fall behind, content to be end-users , gameplayers, rather than coders or programme developers to use an image you’ll appreciate.
Judith, your comments are always deep and well thought through, and I always gain benefit from them, but this is one of the most encouraging and richest comments I've ever read. Thank you!
I think the insecurity part is significant. It's hard if you are well into your career to change gears. And many people think they are "not good with languages." It's true that some people are more gifted in that area, but most people can gain enough proficiency to at least follow what commentaries are suggesting about the text.
I graduated From Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Ft. Worth, Texas in December 1988 with an MDiv degree. That was the last year that Biblical Languages were required to graduate. After that, the seminary made a distinction between the degrees, one with Biblical languages and one without. I took two years of Greek and one of Hebrew. In both cases, they were far more of just an introduction than any real depth. Even before I went to seminary, I heard the arguments about the "untrained, ordinary men." I think that all people should be lifelong learners, especially in ministry. Too often I have run across "preachers" who said, "I got saved and God called me to preach. I just grabbed my Bible and started preachin'. I don't need none of that book larnin' " Unfortunately they can do a lot of damage with their well-intentioned ignorance.
@@MikeMcG58 Well stated. Great quote: "I think that all people should be lifelong learners, especially in ministry." Life long learners - I think this is what is meant by the word μαθητεύσατε in Matt 28:19. The Apostles were told not to make converts but disciples. However, the danger in just learning is apparent - American Christians have reduced Christianity to intellectual accumulation, which has not really transformed their souls. From Vine's: mathetes = "a learner" (from manthano, "to learn," from a root math--, indicating thought accompanied by endeavor) [mathēteúō is derived from μαθητής]
When we learn the Greek of the NT, we’re learning, to a great degree, the language of those uneducated fishermen. There shouldn’t be a snob culture built up around wanting to best understand the writings of those who first delivered the gospel words. As I used to tell my students, if the NT had been transmitted to us in Silesian Polish, we would be studying Silesian Polish in our seminaries-using Polish flash cards, etc.
I"m a lawyer---not a pastor--and I've had a goal to learn Greek and Hebrew so that I would not be what you've described as a second-hander. I did not know that term until I watched your video, but the concept of it, being dependent on others to understand the text, has been heavy on my heart. I'm not through my first year of Greek yet, but it's already paying dividends. First, it's hard work, but it's fun! Second, I realize that as I translate the Word in practice exercises, my translations do not often look much different from the English translations that I've read (except, um, when I've made some mistakes!), but I can *see* so much more. For example, I've read theology books and articles where some author writes that "such and such means this because the original Greek...," and I've already been able to spot really basic errors that people can make. Third, I look at the NT Greek when my pastor is talking about some passage of scripture and things stand out different to me then they once did. My point is that it is undeniably eye-opening to be able to read the NT in the language that it was written in. I have had a thought as to why some people might be making the comments that you are addressing in this video, and a thought about how your response video may have been an answer to prayer for them. There have been a number of things that I have wanted to do in life, but I expressed those desires the opposite, perhaps negative, way. Sometimes people do that to convince themselves why they don't need something or shouldn't do something that they may actually want. ("I can't do X because of y." All they may need is to have someone say, "you can do x, because y isn't true." Or whatever.) In a sense, those comments could be an indicator that someone is actually trying to be persuaded of the opposite. Your video, as kindhearted and sincere as it was, is exactly the thing that commenters in that situation might need to see the value and give themselves the courage to plunge into the challenge of language learning.
I'm a Classics Major at the University of Evansville. I started to study Greek when I was just 11 years old. Everything you're saying is SPOT ON and accurate information. I totally agree with you about this.
@@Moliere1000 That is why I am teaching Classical Greek to children aged 6-12 right now. I am hopeful that I can get them to read Thucydides and Homer by upper high school.
A few years ago I asked myself (a layman, Sunday School Teacher) how important is it to know the original languages. I found that people who know them say they are very important to vital while others said not very to not at all. So I decided to find out for myself and started studying on my own using a beginning Greek grammar book. I have learned enough to where usually I understand the point a commentary is making. I cannot read my Greek NT. Learning Greek has helped me a lot. However, I think you are missing a more fundamental question. Why do so many seminary graduates not find the languages so useful that they want to continue using them? According to the posts on this video the original languages should lead to a better relationship with Jesus. Clearly that is not true of everyone who learns the languages. Maybe an enriched relationship is more a result of time in the scriptures regardless of language and the original languages enhance that time. Are the original languages necessary? Probably not. Can they be helpful? Absolutely.
Thanks for your question! I think there are several reasons Seminary graduates don't stick with Greek... perhaps there is a video here somewhere. I think the goal of Greek classes in seminary is part of the problem, as well as the level of proficiency they get too (no enough), the overwhelm of all the other classes and learning they have to do, the sometimes overly academic approach (not helped by all the rabbit trails that knowledge of the Greek can lead to), and the simple need to spend time in the language to develop proficiency.
I like your reply. I think one should try to learn the original language(s) if possible, and don't forget that knowing the words of the scripture is not enough, one also requires the holy spirit enlightenment. Ephesians 1:17-18.
As an outsider who is not a pastor but knows and loves Greek, I think we need to accept the reality that the overwhelming majority of pastors out there who have had Greek in seminary really don't know the language well enough to read their GNTs, even with a reader's edition. Out of dozens of pastors, I only know three who can actually do this. Most of the rest can interact with tools with the limited language knowledge that they do have. Does that make them less qualified? Sure. But does it make them UNqualified? I would argue no.
Agreed. My purpose is not to argue that every pastor should learn Greek, but perhaps I'd argue that the default should be yes and no should be the exception. Right now it is the rule and I think the church is worse off for it. Thanks for watching!
No pastors don’t need to understand original languages. I study and read Greek a little every day and of course it’s helpful in my preaching and teaching. But I also am involved in ministries in Central Asia and have family members connected with ministries in Africa which raise up church planting pastors. One movement I support which is typical gives four months training then sends people out to plant churches. They don’t know biblical languages but they can preach the gospel from their Hindi or Urdu Bibles. They can heal the sick and cast out demons. They can shepherd their congregations of often hundreds of people amidst opposition of the government and Hindu or Islamic neighbors. They can start new works in neighboring villages walking miles unless they have a motorcycle (which we try to raise funds to provide). They don’t have the resources to study languages but their ministries look like we find in the book of Acts. I love the Greek NT and I suspect as these church movements mature some leaders will emerge and find opportunity to study further. When that happens I hope they don’t allow academics to replace the apostolic fire that currently marks their ministries.
I struggled with the value of learning original languages too so no judgement, but he is absolutely right. I didn't think it was important until I learned. New Subscriber by the way :)
This is simply BRILLIANT! There isn't a "love" button so I selected the "dislike" button simply because NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE have seen this wonderful video! Everything you say is true - and more people need to be seeing and hearing this. Once this gets a million "likes" I will remove my "dislike"! So many are "second hand" students of the Bible and we don't want to stay there. Another reason I disliked this is because I'm jealous! You verbalized this so much better than I ever could! This is actually my favorite video (and I've watched many") that you have made! Excellent work - and PLEASE keep it up!
Hello brother, greeting in the name of Jesus Christ. This video is a revival to learn biblical languages. I have completed my bachelors in theology, pursuing ‘masters in theology’ and have come up with a plan to teach basic biblical Greek in our community. Those quotes actually supported my cause for teaching Greek. I will do share your videos on biblical Greek to our community. Uphold in prayers. God bless.
Thank you so much! Funny, normally I have an editor, but I did this one myself because I had some ideas for it. However, I am wanting to level up these videos as I can. Thanks for your encouragement!
Great video, Darryl! I definitely think those preaching the Word should know Greek and Hebrew, especially if they are already going to seminary. Language is not a one-to-one translation. Language comes from a world, time, and place context (e.g. worldview, culture, customs and manners, social norms, metaphor vehicles, etc.). Words do not occur in a vacuum. When you learn an original language, the door begins to open for the exegete to employ corpus linguistics (examine a word's meaning in light of a body of contemporary texts). When you look at contemporary usage in Koine Greek (via epigraphy, papyri, contemproary literary works, etc.), you can start to see similar usages of literary context within the New Testament: metaphor, collocations, semantic range, etc. Additionally, the Koine Greek within the New Testament was long considered to be a "Holy Ghost" language (a language specifically created just for the New Testament). Only slightly over one hundred years ago did scholars discover that the Greek in the New Testament was the language of everyday people; thus, even the great Theologians of the reformation did not have the ability to utilize Corpus Linguistics to help see the semantic ranges, metaphor vehicles, collocations, and other insights of the Koine Greek words used in the New Testament. Many advances through archeological discoveries have given us today more insight into the usage of words than what the great theologians of the reformation had (who many commentators consider highly in their commentaries).
Just found your channel today as it was in the suggestion list. I'm very glad that you approached this subject. I just have one thing to say to support and sum up everything that you said: "Test everything, hold tight to what is good" 1 Thessalonians 5:21. If you just go by commentary and you don't learn the original language, how on Earth can you test the scriptures, let alone the commentary from which you are basing your sermon? I just think of all the people sitting in the audience at church, you say getting the third hand perspective, but in some cases I wouldn't doubt if it was fourth hand. Especially since a lot of these pastors today are getting their sermons and ideas prescripted from a website. Shameful! What happened to just simply teaching and reading the whole Word from Genesis to Revelation and all of its content therein? Why does it have to be a cheesy inspirational theme that can be embroidered on a pillow? Just read the word of God and let His Holy Spirit teach and direct. There's your scripture sermon material for the next few years! But heaven forbid people might actually learn something, or have to sit through a dreadful list of genealogy one week. 🙄 Lord knows they might make a connection and understand foundational context, and we can't have that. And that's why most pastors will never do it. They hold too tight to the idea that their parishioners must be entertained so that they will pay for the show. SMH
As a beginning Greek student, before starting I often had a thought that if Greek scholars interpret the text differently leading to a number of English versions, who am I to think I can interpret any better. Your explanation gets to the core of that issue.
One thing we should all remember, part of the shma is to Love the Lord your God with all your MIND. So learning the exact thought behind each word is praise worthy and not self righteous!! Those who fear the Lord will not insist they are right but will listen, interject and try to bring the truth to light!!
I just read today that even Princeton was removing Greek and Latin requirements for their Classics Major. I see this as a huge joke since my main focus is Classics with Language and Literature Concentration.
Those who say you do not need Greek have likely not ever studied Greek. This topic reminds me of the story about a student who told a teacher that he didn't need Greek. The teacher told him that he had heard him preach and it showed. I have seen problems in commentaries by those who do not know the language very well.
I quote from "Teach Yourself New Testament Greek" 1980, by D. F. Hudson: "A lady is reported to have said to missionary who had been engaged in translation of the New Testament into one of the Central African languages, "But why do that? If English was good enough for St. Paul , why isn't it good enough for them?" He goes on to say that the then Palestine was trilingual and Hebrew (the local language - but actually Aramaic), Latin (the language of the Empire) and Greek (the then universal language) were used in the inscription on top of the cross and he likens it to the state he was living in - Bengal, with Bengali as a local language, Hindi (state language) and English (universal language). The point I am making is that learning Greek (and Hebrew) are important for a full understanding of the Bible. Many monoglot English speakers, including pastors, feel uncomfortable about learning a foreign language. However, in the current world, a majority of the world population is actually bilingual or multilingual. I don't think pastors would be as ignorant or as supercilious as the lady that was mentioned above, but it requires humility and a lot of work to learn a language, and many people do not have what it takes.
I’m seeing a common thread here of objection in the vein of “But it’s still not necessary because people exist in other countries and we don’t use the biblical languages to do evangelism or to teach them.” I’m wondering why that is such a popular argument, given the sheer volume of believers in less fortunate countries that would give anything for the kind of connection to the original text that’s being described. Also curious as to why there seems to be this disconnect in place where “it’s beneficial for others to know it, but not me or not these certain people because…” seems to work for so many people. I think there’s something to be said for the point that whatever the logic may be that is used to attempt to refute trying to know the Scriptures better yourself or to help someone know them better through the use of the biblical languages, for those whose overriding concern is “all those people in those other places who don’t even know English, let alone Greek or Hebrew”, we just flat-out do have a responsibility to them, our brothers and sisters in Christ, to do everything within our abilities to help them to know their Lord with the greatest degree of certainty and clarity that they can where they are at; we have not been given leave to punt on the languages, or proper hermeneutics, or biblical preaching, etc., in some attempt to “simplify” for them that which so many of them would joyfully undergo difficulties and obstacles in learning if it led them to more deeply understand how to treasure the Word and their Savior to the utmost. Our “fancy book learnin’” is not a hindrance to missional Gospel witness, and it is not to their detriment; it is just as much for their benefit as it is for ours, if not more so.
I'm a doctor who recognises that my medical practise is enriched by the breadth of biology and chemistry I understand (even if the decisions i make are ultimately the same). I think the main concern is that sometimes you will (both in medicine and in biblical studies) have an idea that no one else may have had before. If you don't know the basics there is no way to test out how plausible that idea actually is. Anyway, i should probably get back to my flashcards...
I thoroughly enjoy the material presented by Darryl. He emphasizes Biblical accuracy, and he is passionate about how the Logos and His words, which are spirit and life (Jn 6:63), should transform the souls of leaders and the flock of God. I think the Greek word 'auxano' is a great illustration of how the Greek can inspire organic soul growth, based on the grace and knowledge of Jesus (2Pet 3:18; Col 1:10). "The better the pastor has cared for his own soul, the better the pastor engages with the [Greek] text himself, the better he’s going to be able to care for the souls of others." - Darryl Burling • “I think one of the reasons that pastors today struggle with shepherding, I say this as somebody who’s got a PhD in Biblical Counseling, who sees that pastors often don’t know how to counsel. Part of the reason for it, I’m sure, is that pastors don’t know how to deal with their own souls before the Word of God. Part of that, again, is because they don’t know how to read the Word; they don’t know how to engage the text [in the Greek].” - Darryl
Two points... #1 - You didn't say one word about cross referencing to interpret Scripture. The bible will interpret itself...that should always be step one. #2 - Words ONLY have meaning in context. No one can learn what a Greek word means or its not a good thing to think that you know what a Greek word means...what you need to know is what COULD the word mean in a certain context. But reading Greek words thinking about what each word means seems to me a recipe for misinterpretation. The question isn't what does the Greek word mean. Its what is the context and what does the bible have to say about it when cross referenced.
Thanks for your comments Shawn! I agree that scripture does indeed help us understand scripture - which means that clearer passages help us understand unclear passages. But this isn't a hermeneutics video. Regarding your second comment, I agree with you and covered some of these principles in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1gaiJB-0z3w.html Blessings!
I often ask people who say we don’t need to learn the Biblical languages, “how much of the Biblical languages do you know in order for you to have come to that conclusion?”
You are SO right! I’m a Classicist teaching Latin at a Christian school. I shouldn’t have to fight the need to learn the ancient languages, especially in a Christian school! Everybody should take Latin and Greek in High School and Hebrew in Seminary. Yet, here we are. Crazy times!
Brilliant message Daryl! What I hear when I hear the comment, "A pastor doesn't need to learn Greek" is poor missiology. If we have no intention of being a disciple and obeying the command to disciple every people group, then yes, I suppose one does not need to know Greek. If you do want to however, obey the command to disciple every people group, then it becomes quickly apparent that you should know the original languages. How do you disciple someone from a people group different than yours without knowing the original language? You can not give away what you don't possess and if you don't know the original languages it is harder to recognize the cultural lens you are viewing the scriptures through. That is not to say we shouldn't go in faith, but I think we should be sober about what gospel we might be bringing to others. You don't have look any farther than the 19th century to see the catastrophic effects of colonization and you can see the importance of being rooted in the original languages in my opinion.
I must admit to never really considering a pastor requiring Greek (or Hebrew) in my more active church years. I grew up in the Church of England. Sermons were very much anecdote driven and related to every day life. Later I was in charismatic churches where elders were previous Baptist ministers, or trained up within the church, including myself. Sermons were very much based in the Bible but from English translations. I’m not sure what level of familiarity with the languages was required of Church of England priests in the 60s to 80s. Baptist’s had some training I know because one of our members who preached occasionally, used to be a minister and used a translation I was unfamiliar with. When I asked it was his own which made me think about learning for myself. Many times others preached and gave the oh so profound “in the original Greek it says” introduction when they wanted to make an important point. But I realise now that many of these were exegetical fallacies and gleaned from reading commentaries rather than from a personal knowledge of the language. Whether I would have benefitted more from teaching rooted in a knowledge of Greek I don’t know. But although I agree and understand these days that it is important for pastors to preach from such an understanding, I think I have benefitted more from learning for myself. That I think should be the focus, not pastors alone having the burden of learning but members of the church themselves. Otherwise although the church might not be lead by a second hander, the members still will be, and be reliant on the pastor rather than their own understanding. I suppose I think we all have as much of an obligation to educate ourselves in the languages and Christian learning as do the pastors. But then I have a body upwards and outwards mindset rather than a sole leader downwards. Thanks for the video Darryl. Thought provoking as always.
The points you make are really helpful and surely right but surely the main reason (assumed i am sure but not mentioned) why any pastor or anyone should learn the original languages is to know and love Jesus. Then, from this revelation, they can teach others to do the same. Unless people get that learning Greek helps us know and love the LORD himself then they will learn it without knowing the τέλος ! P.S : I think you are doing a great job and providing a really helpful resource for people. Thank you brother. It would be really helpful i think if you could make clear for your listeners the connection between the technical / grammatical / exegetical to the doxological. ie Show us how what you are teaching helps us to see Jesus so that we may know and love God.
I'm going to teach a very short course on Basics of Biblical Interpretation for church workers, and was wondering whether I should mentioned the biblical languages .. your video has been an encouragement. Thank you & God bless you.
I wish I could give you two thumbs up. Does a Pastor need to know Greek? - No - a Pastor needs to know Jesus. But that begs the question! How does one come to an intimate relation with Jesus? You can not know Jesus without knowing what Jesus says, what Jesus does, and how Jesus interacts with people. In short you cannot know Jesus without knowing the Scriptures. Knowing Greek does not mean knowing Scripture. But, as you said, KNOWING Scripture does means getting as close as possible to the original “saying!” That means becoming a student (a disciple). For the NT that means studying the Greek.
After some thought I have an additional comment. What is the difference between a Pastor and a , hum , non-Pastor? Do we really want to promote a dependent pew? A “second-handed” laity? With all due respect, I believe,the question should be: Does a serious disciple of Christ (a person yearning for a close intimate relationship with the living Christ) need to know Greek?
Hey Darryl! I hope this comment comes across as having a deep level of respect, humility and appreciation for you and your program. To start out, some full disclosures: I absolutely love your videos and hope to enroll in your program at some point in the near future. I do believe that learning Koine Greek provides a wealth of benefits for studying the New Testament. Lastly, I am not a pastor and I do not know the biblical languages. I do not believe that it is necessary for pastors to learn NT Greek for the following reasons: 1) Elders of churches in the 1st century were not expected to learn the original language of the Hebrew Scriptures. They studied and taught from the Septuagint. To be sure, some Jewish elders who came from the synagogues undoubtedly could read the Torah in the original language, but most Gentiles (and therefore most if not all Gentile elders) would not have had that capability and so relied on a translation. If the Apostles did not make it a requirement to know Hebrew in order to become an overseer and shepherd the local church, (as Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp did) then neither must we. 2) Reinforcing this is the fact that we do not, and should not, expect pastors of underground churches in China, or in tribal countries like Papua New Guinea, or in Sub-Saharan Africa to have to learn Greek in order to faithfully serve the Lord as shepherds. 3) While every elder must be able to teach, not every elder in a church has teaching and preaching as their primary focus in shepherding the local church. There is a gradient of value in studying Greek for pastors who primarily teach (higher) to pastors whose focus is in other areas (lower). 4) I think the perceived challenge of using Bible software tools might be a bit overstated. While someone may not be able to rattle off the top of their head what a participle is, it does not require much effort to find that information. In addition, most commentaries are fairly accessible, even to someone who is not formally trained. 5) I really appreciate the example you provided with Matthew 28:19. I would like to suggest that the problem has less to do with whether someone is familiar with Greek, and more with the problematic tendency of pastors to cram a biblical text into a three point sermon on a topic that is tone deaf to the biblical author's intent and purposes. Having said all that, I do want to emphasize that I believe that in certain circumstances learning NT Greek can offer tremendous value and benefits to one's pastoral ministry (as does learning Hebrew and, I would add, textual criticism). With the proper motivation, studying the original languages of the Bible can be a noble pursuit that enriches one's walk with the Lord and ministry. But based on 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, such an education is neither necessary nor required for a man to become qualified to serve as an overseer and faithful shepherd of the Lord's flock.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments! I don't think there is a fundamental disagreement here. Knowledge of the languages is not a biblical requirement for pastoral ministry, so I agree (I commented on this somewhere else here). With regard to your 4th point, my argument was that a lack of knowledge of language generally is not going to be compensated through tools, and I would further argue that "most commentaries" generally does not generally include exegetical commentaries, though even some of these are more accessible than others. Blessings!
@@bma thank you for your kind response dear brother. I deeply appreciate your labors to equip the saints to accurately handle the Word. I for one have benefitted greatly from them and hope to be able to take your course some day. May the Lord continues to bless you!
Fantastic content as usual. I have a question about a completely different subject. What do you think is the place of classical attic greek in biblical studies? I've been studying koine for a bit over a year and now I'm interested in delving into Homer, Plato, etc. How valuable do you think this will be for my understanding of the NT?
As someone with a classical Greek education, I would say that reading the classics would definitely grow your Greek and enrich your experience. Plato especially has been an interesting author for me to study. However, be warned: Classical Greek can be much harder (depending on the author) to sift through. There are forms in Attic that don't appear in the New Testament, or don't appear much. A number words are spelled differently, words can have different meanings than you are used to in the NT, etc... However, there are Greek readers editions for the classical texts, so you may want to start there and see how you do.
But even more than the classical texts, you might want to just start with the Septuagint and non-Biblical Christian literature written in the first few centuries AD. This will definitely help even more for understanding the text.... especially your study of the Septuagint.
The comments by Thomas and Ken here are helpful. I would just echo their comments. I encourage you to start with other Koine texts, then branch into Attic (Plato, Aristotle, and similar writings of that time) and then go back further into Homer, which is a slightly different dialect. Expanding your Koine reading will get you into unfamiliar texts which will enhance your ability to read. An Attic Grammar will then help you fill in the gaps as you start into Attic texts. Blessings!
I have a question for you: i have Beginning greek and deeper greek by Merkle and Plummer but what is the final greek grammar level and in what book is it found? how do I get to the final level and to what level will a person be at the end of taking your MTG course?
I am learning Greek right now. I can see the value in learning Greek and how it might enhance somewhat one’s understanding of scripture. But I stop short of saying it’s necessary to learn Greek. There are so many ways to understand scripture, such as: by comparing verses, having a Greek-English lexicon, looking up different commentaries, etc. But then one might ask - what if there is significant disagreement on a certain verse? Usually by comparing relevant scriptures one might get some clarification on those scriptures. I feel like it is very elitist to imply a normal person can’t come to a proper understanding of scripture without seminary trained pastors who know Greek to interpret it for them… I know that’s not the intention of this video. But I feel the case for learning Greek has been way overstated.
I beg to differ, pastors do need Greek or at least very sophisticated exegetical Greek commentaries. What we read in our English Bibles is sometimes quite different from what is meant by the original writer. The words are right but we miss the sarcasm or even the very nature of what appears to be a simple question. Pastors preaching from the NT are hamstrung when they lack Greek training. I imagine OT preachers are pretty much in the same boat without Hebrew. As to the role of the pastor they are first and foremost shepherds not executives .... to be known to their flock by their voice. Pastors must be preachers and preachers must be equipped. Greek is basic training. ‘Nuff said. MikeinMinnesota
Your channel has been a lot of fun to watch. I bought the student package for acquiring vocab. I have had the program for two weeks and have caught back up with the words that occur >50x and even learned enough new stuff to read the first 2 chapters of 1st John! I have recommended your program to 2 friends. I’m using the Tyndale Greek Journaling NT which pairs perfectly with your course because it lets me concentrate on the NT books one by one, as I learn the vocab, with plenty of space to parse and work out the syntax. One question: Could you recommend a book that lists the roots of words? As I learn new vocab, I really need to know the roots so I can identify things like liquid verbs and recognize the changes occurring with tense formatives, ablaut, and such. I don’t think BDAG lists them
Thanks for your kind words! Yes, you might like Building your New Testament Greek Vocabulary 3rd Edition. This encourages vocabulary acquisition by occurrence, which I don't like, but it focuses on roots and has some helpful lists that might help in this sense. You can find it here: amzn.to/3psH9gU
I am here because I want to learn Greek for personal growth and development. With that said, learning Greek is unnecessary for being a pastor according to 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus1:5-9.
I know I’m late to the party here, but as a current second year Greek student in seminary, I’ve had pastors and fellow Christian’s tell me that using Greek scares people. They don’t understand it. I was told by a pastor and deacon of a Baptist church to keep my zeal but to basically water it down. I understood where he was coming from, but how are we to grow our flocks if they refuse to follow us in our learnings? My own sister, who is a Methodist pastor barely uses her Greek in her sermons anymore (not sure if it’s because she is too busy or too progressive now). I try to explain to people what the words mean from Greek to English because I’m my denomination AoG, pastors do not have to have seminary or undergrad in Bible to be a pastor. Since being in seminary, I have seen, first hand, how important needing the original languages can be-I’ve heard a lot of things like the blood moon actually means China/Russia colonizing the moon to this word in Greek can mean and this follows the list and you tie all the words into that meaning and sometimes just choose the one you like the best without actually seeing how it’s used semantically by the same author or elsewhere by others. Fair, if people in the flock do not want to learn the Greek and most won’t even pick up a simple devotional that doesn’t even touch on the Greek, then it falls even more on the pastor to teach the correct meaning from the text of the original language so the people are not falling into heretical teachings as we are seeing with the synchronization of new age into many churches today. This is what I am struggling with as we as many of my profs and fellow students.
Wow those are some powerful arguments. Some thoughts as I watched the vid. You don't know what you don't know - describes the person who says that a pastor doesn't need language training at all. I'm glad you decided to tackle this topic.
What words or doctrines in the King James English do you not like or understand that it must be corrected by "the Greek" ? Which Greek? The Tregelles, Nestle-Aland, Westcott and Hort, Griesbach, Lachmann or Aland-Metzger? The Minority Text or the Majority Text? Critical or Received Greek Text? The Stephanus, Beza, Colinaeus, Erasmus or Elzivir? Which edition of the Beza or Nestles? Three quarters of the scripture is in Hebrew. Should I study Hebrew as well?
Also, a point that this person may not have said somewhere (or I just missed it, because I’m 2 years late on this), and likely a thing they think and many others think but don’t say: “It doesn’t actually matter to me that I’m unable to engage with the biblical languages, the primary literature, because other people have done the work for me and now I don’t have to.” No matter what the dressing is for the argument, there just is some amount, even if only a modicum, of laziness involved in any attempted refutation of knowing the biblical languages that is made by a person living in a country with the access to the kinds of language learning tools that are available to English speakers in particular. Set your bar higher; make an attempt to know the Scriptures better.
There is something to be said about searching scripture in the original translation definitely! But I would ask does it stop the gospel from being proclaimed for salvation? If not knowing Greek stops me from saying Jesus Christ is Lord over all, then yes know Greek and Hebrew by all accounts. If the people you are speaking to don't know it as well then how will you make them disciples? Hammer/nail problem in some ways I think. If you only have a hammer every problem looks like a nail! That goes for both sides of this. Not having enough tools and becoming too proficient with only one tool. I'm not sure the best answer but I will proclaim Christ and Christ crucified with or without Greek/Hebrew. Maranatha!
We have lots of very good translations and they are really helpful. My goal is to help the church grow to love Christ more. While we’re learning we can continue to evangelise and explain as clearly as we can, but we don’t need to know Greek to proclaim the gospel. :)
There is only one authority that we turn to for the requirements for being a pastor, and knowledge of languages is not listed as a requirement. I would rather have a pastor that meets ALL of the requirements given in I Timothy and Titus than one that knows the original languages but hasn't met God's standards. As a skill above and beyond the minimum requirements, I think it is good to have.
But Timothy etc already spoke Greek and probably read Hebrew too so stipulating language facility was not an issue then for pastors. It is in our vastly different historical and cultural context. However given the stress that Paul puts on the need for translation and interpretation when members are speaking in tongues I think , were he around today he would be concerned for accuracy in translation of the word of God from its original languages. Can’t do that without knowing them.
A Pastor who cares nothing for the original languages is like someone claiming to be an artist but does not pick up a fine brush for the canvas but a paint roller:) I Have often said the scriptures are like a 10,000-piece jigsaw puzzle. We all try to put it together but we may fall into the bad habit of doing as we did with our first jigsaw by trying to force a piece where it does not belong. If our version of that puzzle is too important to us then learning the original languages may scare us.
Those who truly wish to take the Word of God to the forum of debate better know the original written Word or, they will soon find themselves drowning in nuance with nothing to hold on to.
I think for someone who only speaks one language, it can be hard for them to understand how the nuances of languages can differ and sometimes even be impossible to translate. As someone who fluently speaks more than one language, there is nuance in language that makes it imperative for a teacher of any text to learn it in its original language.
When we cannot read the original Bible in Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic, we are at the mercy of the people who made the translation. And when their work is compared to the oldest text available, a lot of mistakes and probable distortions are noticed so that they get support for the lies of their church. As eager scholars of God’s Word train themself to understand the oldest text available, they attend seminars where they are taught grammar and vocabularies. In this case, however, they are at the mercy of the work done by others. It is entirely possible and even probable that some part of this work on which the seminars are based may be partly a misunderstanding and a so-called "the doctrine of the church-going above" to the teaching that is offered to them. So it is difficult for a pastor who has attended seminars to be 100% sure that the things he has been taught are purely in line with the original source. Example: Hebrew-educated Jeff A. Benner (AHRC) says that about 20% of all the words in Hebrew Tanakh are uncertain or completely foreign to scholars that we can only guess. Or what follows if the Hebrew word 'aph' [aleph pey] does not mean "anger"? If someone has ever just assumed or wanted it to mean "anger," but what if it means "leader of the mouth" or "teacher of the mouth" in some parts of Tanakh? Everyone may wonder why YHWH became angry with Moses when he had finally learned to be modest and not hot-tempered during his 40-year escape to Midian. However, YHWH later declared to Moses that he is the God long-suffering and slow to anger. And after being "angry" with Moses for keeping his mouth slow and stiff, YHWH told Moses that his brother Aaron could speak and he was coming joyfully against Moses. May Aaron be a prophet to you! Having traveled long enough with his brother Aaron, Moses had also learned to speak. So Aaron had been the leader and teacher of Moses' mouth from the beginning!
16:06 A parable to a doctor who should be master of chemistry. But the truth is that doctors don’t know much, they actually have to almost always ask for advice from nurses. Doctors are essentially like a rubber stamp: When a nurse tells how to fix a patient what to do, the doctor formalizes it, and then nurses are allowed to do it. But yes: It is better for a pastor to know Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek than just the language of his country.
I think Darryl's arguments for the importance of learning Greek are pretty convincing against the extreme position that pastors don't need to learn Greek at all, or that there is such a thing as a "non-academic pastor". However, I'm more interested in the question: is obtaining mastery and fluency in Greek really worth it for pastors, given the numerous electronic tools available to parse and define Greek words, as well as more basic books like "Greek for the Rest of Us"? One could imagine a seminary requiring a pastor to only spend a semester of basic Greek to be acquainted with basic features of the language such as the different word forms, verbal aspect, tenses, participles, and most importantly knowing which books and resources to consult regarding each of these topics, if he ever encounters any interpretive difficulties with a particular text. With this basic knowledge, one could argue that it is enough to understand most of what is going on even in fairly technical commentaries, especially if it just for the purposes of preaching to a lay audience (instead of writing academic papers on Greek). Why wouldn't this be enough, compared to studying Greek for years until one can read the text fluently?
Just the title bothered me! If you are a pastor or a teacher and you don’t know the languages, you are then unqualified. How do you teach the scriptures while not knowing the scriptures intimately.
It is tempting to say this, but ultimately we are qualified by our character rather than our knowledge. The qualifications of an elder are laid out in Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3, and further elucidated throughout scripture, but nowhere does it insist on knowing the languages. If it did, the vast majority of pastors both now and throughout church history would be unqualified. However, in our modern age, with so many helpful tools and the availability of teachers, not knowing the languages should be the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad the title was provocative! We should all value the scriptures like this! Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@bma I’ve thought about this often and in 29 years of ministry I’ve made an important observation. I’ve met some wonderful men who loved the Lord yet unintentionally mislead their congregation in bad doctrine because of no understanding or familiarity with the languages. I don’t believe you need to be proficient but you certainly need at least a basic understanding. We have lowered the standards of pastors that when Paul says “able to teach” in 1 Timothy 3, we accept it to mean “able to teach at a minimum “. All of it matters. Not just character. And if you don’t have any understanding of Greek or Hebrew, what are you able to teach? I know there are some things you can teach, but perhaps that man is better suited in another role in ministry. As Paul advised Timothy to commit to faithful men, yet today we just commit to available men who may not be faithful to study ( which includes some basic knowledge of the languages). I question a man who says he wants to represent God’s word but is unwilling to devote even a small amount of time to growing in what he professes is the most important tool in pastoral ministry, which is God’s word.
I don't know greek, but I can do word usage studies... By doing such studies, I doscovered by myself that HOUTO was misused in John 3:16 by 99% of translators. Another example, by doing word usage studies, I discovered that in Habacuc 2:4, the word used should not be FAITH in english, but rather FAITHFULNESS (h530 'ĕmûnâh. of course it's hebrew). This has been tweeked because it would not fit Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11, Hebrews 10:38, where PISTIS has been translated by faith. And also, by doing word usage studies, it seems to me now, like, pistis has a broader array of meanings in greek than "faith" has in english... And so... do I have any decent level of proficiency in greek? Not really... I know words here and there... but, I am no fool, and I can see that even the word PONEROS has been translated abusively by :the evil one" in a few verses, instead of just "evil"... So, I think word usage studies can still reveal a ton, even though one does not understand the lannguage, nor read it...
Think about it. The average Muslim endeavors to read his sacred scriptures, not in translations, but in the original text of the Quran and therefore learns Arabic. Why do believers settle for less?
Motivational speaking is not the same as good preaching, and many people today don't understand the difference. We expect lawmakers to make laws based directly upon our original founding documents while only then seeing how those documents have been interpreted over time (we could make countless other analogies), although we expect less precision and accuracy (those are also not the same) when it comes to preaching the very Word of God, or do we truly believe the Bible is the Word of God? Maybe that's where the problem lies. When my wife writes me something, I want to read her actual letter, not what someone else would tell me it says. I feel even more passionate about something God Himself wrote to me. If my doctor gives me life or death instructions about my health, I don't want to rely on someone else to tell me what they think my doctor said or meant. But alas, eternity is intangible until it's too late, and it's always easier to become lackadaisical about intangibles. I as a pastor think a pastor who doesn't want to try at least to learn the original Biblical languages at least to a working level is lazy and not really concerned about being a pastor/shepherd but only cares about giving speeches. God can and will still use them, but are such people truly pursuing their calling to fulfill it fully? To what were they called? We must also consider that we are teaching and shaping Christians who base their beliefs on what they are taught by their pastors. We don't want our schoolchildren taught by teachers who merely relay what they've heard someone tell them. We should certainly not want Christians being trained by pastors at the same low bar, although the condition of the church today does lean to that testimony. Anyway, thank you for this video. Well said and done.
Only a couple of years ago I learned how Aramaic language passages got into the vetted Judeo-Christian Scriptures: it was due to the Jewish experience/exposure to Aramaic while in exile in Babylon. But why do Bible teachers never explain this??
As a greek and having been raised reading and understanding the bible in Greek, I have a hard time following and understanding the bible in English, unless it’s a bilingual greek/english copy
His Word is incredibly deep and I think to fully grasp everything He has for us it would be impossible without understanding the original definitions of the original languages. The "church" in this culture is severely lacking in discernment and understanding because people don't study properly and pastors only teach and preach what they learn in seminary. Church in this culture is a 3 ring circus money magnet scratching the itching ears of those who love a sugar coated feel good sermon with a few stories and a couple scriptures thrown in for good measure which follows a few songs of praise n worship usually interrupted by silly announcements. It's pathetic. And lastly I'll say that if people really dug into the original definitions of the scriptures it would contradict much of what has been taught in "church". If there's any "pastor's" out there that are really teaching the whole truth than I can guarantee they don't have many members and they ain't there for the money. Anyone who really wants to share truth isn't interested in making money from it, they're sharing it because its the only thing that matters in this evil world that's run by the god of this world and shortly coming to an end.
It would be good, it would be more time consuming, and longer preparation time but a pastor in reality doesn’t need Greek, at least a basic understanding will do the work.
Great. Yes, I do believe that pastors and every Saint of God should learn the original languages of the bible. The Holy Spirit does guide us in our study. It is important, however, for us to become familiar with the original languages.
It's up to you. You can pick your way through the text or read it and analyze it with confidence. In my opinion the former leads to a loss of knowledge. The more you know, the more you can use it. I'd love to help you!
For me personally, it seems like such a daunting task, especially when our schools today don't teach English properly anymore, especially sentence mapping, or even know the parts of an ENGLISH sentence. I feel humiliated to say that I struggle even with the English language that way. What can someone like me do to master Greek?
One little bit at a time. JUST BE CONSISTENT! Get a calendar, or draw one on a sheet of paper each month. Think of how much time you can contribute to this goal (Learning Greek) each day. Then be consistent, and spend that much time each day studying. Mark off each day on that calendar after you've studied that amount of time. Do NOT SKIP any days if at all possible. Doing it each day, and marking it when you've completed it, will help you to continue. You will be proud of the string of days that studied in a row. If you do this you will come closer and closer every day to your goal of learning Greek!! God bless,
IF you had the original Greek letters written by Paul himself...I would learn Greek to read them. But you don't have that...so I'm not going to learn Greek to read a non-existent Greek manuscript.
This sounds like you're saying that early copies of the original manuscripts are less reliable than the translations that are derived from them. This doesn't make sense. Perhaps I've misunderstood you here?
@@bma That's the take away, that I drew from his comment as well. I would suppose that he hold's a low view on God's ability to provide preservation, and it really begs the question... does he hold to any core doctrine of the faith? If so, by what means then? Church tradition? Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Solo Christo, Soli Deo gloria
Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure there are others like you, but there are probably other reasons such as poor training, overwhelm, laziness, and more. I wanted to put these into this video but it ended up being too long, so I'll cover them in another one at some point. Thanks for watching!
The point of the Scriptures is to understand the message that God is speaking. Just like, if you understand the original intent of a car, and that the point of a car is to get you from point a to point b, then you dont have to understand the paint job and the reasoning behind it the paint job. Just like, in order to breath oxygen, nobody needs to understand what makes up the oxygen that they are intaking, they just need to breath and know that the environment they are in is safe. Greek and hebrew have their place, but they are not the main thing since we have the english Bible. The Holy Spirit is the point. He Is God and it is about Him speaking to you. I dont need to know the word participle and what it means. As a matter of fact I have been hearing from the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures for decades and I just heard "participle" today on this channel. I just need to read the Bible with an open heart and praying for the Holy Spirit to bring me understanding and revelation, as the Word promises the law of having the Holy Spirit and Him telling you what He is saying". English is actually a superior language to greek and hebrew, because, if there is something that somebody perceives as missing or lacking, then the language can remedy it. With other languages, it just gets left out. The whole "the english language isnt as good as greek", is just because of our recent degrading in the language of our modern times. People have gotten increasingly worse with language. Its like when I use th word bondage among common folk when talking about sin and the like, an all they think of is sexual perversion. And I try and tell them the definition of the word and they refuse to understand. Its not that they cant understand, but rather, they will not. Over the decades, people overall become less intelligent and understanding and so they want the Bible to evolve with them and so the Bible is no longer good enough for them. They want something more. Yet, in the cultures hat have the greatest modern day revivals and moving of the Spirit of God, you find the people relying upon the Bible, instead of "We have to get back to the original languages to truly understand".
Share Your Ignorance is too welcome from those who are looking for a make me feel good church. As for myself I became a much better teacher, won more people to Christ, and better able to teach people intellectually and practically after I learned the languages. I am 69 and still studying as well as meet with 5 men each week and two others in another country through Zoom
This discussion is another reason why confessional Christianity is so important: the Westminster Confession deals with this problem plainly and clearly (WCF 1.8)
Thanks Peter. How particularly do you see WCF 1.8 applying in this situation? Are you referring to the original languages as being the text of final resort (and authority)?
@@bma Yes. For matters of doctrine and teaching in particular. The Westminster Directory of Public Worship elaborates a bit more on how it is practically worked out in the sermon in the section Of the Preaching of the Word, and also for ordination in the Form of Church Government's Directory for the Ordination of Ministers.
@@bma Also the assertion that the text in the original languages "being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentic", as opposed to a translation (combatting the Vulgate in this case) being the source for points of doctrine.
w/o Thayers and Vines it is IMPOSSIBLE IMPOSSIBLE,, Not even God can make it possible to understand the biblie w/o Vines/Thayers,Or lets say God MIGHT BE ABLE to give you the inner meanings w/o greek, ,,,but its going to be dif for God to reveal to you the meaninsg w/o the greek. Hows that heresy fpor you, Greek understanding is the ONLY way to grasp the inner hidden meanings, That said, I see alotttt of greek scholars who can NOT grasp the inner meanings. = Greek is only 1 part, the other part is God/Experience,, The 1st part anyone can do The 2nd part Few if any can do. amen???? paul new orleans
So even in paradise people will talk just greek , and according to you christianity is greek , and not for all the nations or all the languages . Each person has his own function in the body of Christ , and not for everybody to be translators of ancient language. If a christian is not dedicated because he is not speaking ancient greek and using Logos ( spending thousands of dollars on that ) and with just bragging about so called knowledge and study ? What is this study about ? The wisdom of the Bible is the knowledge of the Word of God , and the knowledge of Scriptures , and not the individual daily translations of greek and even less study of the greek . All of the people in your channel , so called scholars, scientist of the bible who study so much i dont see them talking about a single object of these studies other than bragging about greek . If anyone wanted to study greek or ancient languages there are translations word for word and ancient greek is so remote and difficult that even greek people dont study it or use it for anything. You do the same as muslims do with arabic , saying is holy language that only through that can be saved . But i see that all is connected to money , greek courses and selling more Logos which is shameful to sell the Word of God . And at the end , the world will see your greek fruits and how much is of value all of this bragging about languages .
Thanks for your comments. I'm not sure where you're coming from here, and I don't think any of us are bragging about Greek - and certainly that's not what we're trying to do. We are thankful to be able to serve, and we can serve like this because of the support we receive from customers. None of us are here for the money, and rather than selling the Word of God, we're freeing you from modern translations which are developed and owned by publishing houses and encouraging you to read the ancient texts for yourself. Have you seen any of our other videos?
