I went on the 909 two weeks before it crashed with my 4 year old to start his new tradition it was one of my favorite planes I had been inside that plane about 20 times. It was like loosing an old friend. It gave me my first sense of what my grandfather witnessed one D-Day.
I went on a flight in 909 a couple years before this crash. One of the most memorable experiences in my entire life. Been a fan of warbirds scince i was a little kid in the 70s and 80s. Truly was a dream come true and i have some wonderful pics and videos of the experiences. Made me sad to hear of the loss of it, and the people on board. They did give a safety briefing and yes the belts were really unfriendly. Having said all that, i must confess i was not entirely surprised that it had some trouble. I walked the airplane and looked at alot of mechanical areas. I even commented to a friend that i was not an aircraft mechanic but i felt that the plane was quite rustic and in need of some reconditioning.
The 9-0-9 was at St. Paul, MN airport August 2007 along with its companion B-24 and B-25. I did not have my video camera with me. All three took off right over me. That was a goose bump moment. The loss of the 9-0-9 and the lives that were lost gives me that pit in the stomach feeling. Good job, Juan.
Should you ever stop flying ahead of when it's time to (legally) you will definitely find a large audience that will appreciate this professionalism of how to present this kind of content and pay for it. Thank you for your time and dedication!
He could do that even after age 65. Or do it while still active (the LAX 777 schedule has plenty of time off). In any case, Juan does a very fine job and should do it as a profession.
Juan, I had the honor of working with a B17 pilot(Arnold Moselle)in the 80s before he retired. Kept in touch with him until he passed. He told a story of coming back across the English Channel on one engine and barely clearing the cliffs after throwing everything overboard that they could to reduce weight. I wasn’t a pilot at the time and didn’t ask about any details. Fuel was probably down to nothing and it could have been an inboard engine which would create less yaw. He also had lots of altitude to trade for speed on the return trip. Did the engines create more thrust due to higher octane fuel? Very humble person, not one to exaggerate. I didn’t believe him at the time but he told me that I would fly someday.
Yes, being tuned for the higher octane fuels they had during the war would have given the engine more thrust, also they had functioning turbos on them during the war, unlike nowadays, at higher altitudes that would have given the remaining engine the ability to make 100% power, on one engine running the commercially available fuel nowadays and without a working turbo he probably would have lost enough altitude until he got into thick enough air so the single stage supercharger on the engine could provide max boost that he'd have never made it back across the channel. I'm not aware of a single WW2 bomber that originally had turbos on them that's flying nowadays with functional one's, there's no point since they don't have working oxygen system's on them, they'll never fly that high again. Also I know that some of the airworthy fighter's that originally had turbos for high altitude performance don't have them hooked up either, of the 5 airworthy P47's I believe only two of them have functional turbos, the other 3 just have ballast in the fuselage behind the pilot to keep the center of gravity correct on them, they just run the exhaust out the wastegate dumps up at the engine cowling.
I also flew on a B-17G several years ago. I sat in the nose cone seat during taxiing and take-off. No safety instructions were given before or during the flight...the whole flight was exhilarating!!!
@@get_emld "Sentimental Journey" flown by Commemorative Air Force. It was making the rounds in northern USA and parts of central Canada. I jumped on board at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum at Hamilton Airport in Ontario Canada.
During WWII the bombardiers did not sit in their "window office" during takeoffs and landings. They sat with the navigators in the lower forward compartment.
I live in South Alabama. My cousin,(retired Capt with Alaskan Airlines), was also flying the B-17 from another group in Connecticut at the same time. They were about 40 miles from this crash. I heard about the crash at my airport with in an hour or so. I called my cousin to see if this crash was his plane/him. He immediately answered his phone with "I'm ok." He said they were also gathering information to see what had happened. This is all so sad.... the people lost, lives changed forever and of course a beautiful plane. I rode with my cousin's group with him flying, in Dothan, AL a few years back. Not simply a plane ride but a true flight experience.
Thank you, JB. I did a report on the Flying Fortress in grade school(in the '70s), and since then, never lost my affinity for it. I was fortunate enough to stand next to a real WWII pilot at Wright Patt museum and stare at their specimen for a time, as he reminisced about some of his missions. That kind of experience will leave a mark on you, so your update is all the more meaningful. Hopefully, there will be a way for this kind of preservation of our history to continue, with a lower exposure to risk. Like so many other incidents, this one seems to have been the culmination (or confluence) of many failures at many levels. The old man was wearing too many hats, for one thing, and while no one on Earth was more qualified, he must have had one hell of an argument going on in his head. The head of the organization, the head mechanic, and the head pilot...all one man. In the absence of a meaningful safety authority, he was wearing that hat, too.
I rode in 909 down the Hudson. Had the Statue of Liberty in the Norden sights. Flew with my father, who was a navigator for 29 missions on the 17G. Really sad about this.
My dad was Airforce RCAF I grew up around these planes I had my dad's van centered in the sights of a B24 Liberators .50 that was parked in full mission readiness, yet in line waiting to be scrapped. Also got to meet Bob R owner of a B17 , one of infinite marvelous aviation world memories. Siiiggh a huge loss
I flew in this machine in Illinois in 2007. It was the thrill of a lifetime BUT it was plain to me that the attitude to safety was 'relaxed'. I was also struck by the chief pilot (the same one who was tragically killed on the final flight) that this was already an older man (the age I am now) who had to work very hard to stay in control. At the time of the crash he was another 12 years older - these WW2 aircraft are extremely physically demanding to fly, while maintenance is complex and hard work, not something to be left to an old guy with a stepladder. The revelations about the state of the plugs and magnetos in the official report tell their own story. I caught up with the Collings Foundation again in 2009 where the 909 had a flat in the tail wheel. To my amazement they were fixing the tube with a puncture repair outfit. Seriously?? A blowout on landing could have caused the B-17 to slew all over the place. I took pictures of that. I wouldn't change the experience for anything, but I am very glad I flew when I did and not in 2019 when everything, including the pilot, had had a lot longer to get worn out.
I wanted to follow my comment up with a caveat; in no way shape or form do I advocate for the grounding of vintage aircraft. Quite the opposite, I’m an advocate for it, and keep ‘em flying. That doesn’t mean, just like all other aspects of aviation, some things go down that aren’t very kosher, whether it’s history flights, general aviation, military, or some mishap on your CRJ in Iowa. SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT 100% OF THE TIME AND IN ALL PLACES!
The lap belt has a buckle that was very common for race car belts and is very reliable. There is a detent that you need to get past when locking the lever, the detent works like a tool socket snapping onto an extension or ratchet. If the detent balls ( upper and lower ) are missing, then the buckle won't stay latched
@@thevinylrevolution Got it, failed fabric is completely unacceptable. This leads to the next general question. If an obvious inexpensive problem is not taken care of, what about the not so obvious problems?
I knew Mac and considered him a good friend from my time as a tour coordinator at KILG New Castle/Wilmington, DE for the Collings Foundation. IIRC, the last Collings tour was at KILG in 2018. I was told Mac had the most time flying a B-17 of anyone alive at that time, 10/2019, and even those pilots that flew B-17s during WWII. 7500+ hours. He was a quite modest man that lived to fly 9O9. Also, an ex-airline pilot. I've had several rides in 9O9 over the years without any problem, with him as the pilot-in-charge. I consider myself lucky in that respect and lucky to have known him and other crew members. RIP Mac, and those that were with you that day too. I still can't believe it happened. BTW, there are only 3 exit points in an emergency. The rear side door, the bombay doors if and only if they are open, and the hatch in the navigator/ bombardier compartment up front. The ball turret operator is by himself and gets out on his own if airborne. Rear gunner can only get out on his own thru the hatch in his compartment. And no, he cannot climb over the tailwheel when it's retracted. It's impossible as I tried to do it and failed.
A highlight of my son Patrick's life was flying on this amazing plane. He died in 2020 but the go pro footage he took of his flight is a treasured memory for me. He was so impressed by the focus of the pilots.
I'm an AMT and these videos teach me a great deal about flight dynamics/physics that you just don't get on the ground. I hope to earn my license soon and these videos are incredibly valuable. Thank you and please continue making these videos.
Juan, 909 had NO plexiglass hatch above the radio room. It was fully open/exposed. I was able to stand up full and outside of the aircraft. I actually took video of it and rotated 360 degrees while in flight
I flew on a B-17 flight in 2017. Now that I think about it we were not given an emergency exit briefing either. Maybe that briefing should be required in the future. I didn't have a problem with the seat belt because I was an Army helicopter crew chief years ago. I did notice a couple of the other passengers looked confused and needed help to fasten the belt. Didn't seem important at the time but moving forward should be addressed as a lesson learned. Once again a good job done by you sir.
I would of thought that breifings especially for larger aircraft would be mandatory or at least good practice, for passengers safety and to cover their asses from lawsuits
In the future these flights need to be shut down. The flying public shouldn’t be allowed to fly on experimental aircraft for hire. These aircraft operate on a work around which shouldn’t be allowed. They pose a hazard to both the people onboard the aircraft and people on the ground.
I don't agree with the whole "leave the seatbelts alone" thing. They're giving rides to fully functioning adults, not toddlers. They should teach them how to use the belts properly. Personally, I rode on a "warbird" Huey a few years back, was told the same thing about the belts. I was sat on the edge of the bench seat, door wide open, and had a belt that was so loose that I could've shared my seat with a few of my friends. Having a loose belt + sitting next to a 1,200ft drop + negative G maneuvers = sketchy flight as a passenger
Don't forget how many B-17s crashed during take offs and landings when they were new in WW2. Flying in a B-17 was one of the more dangerous combat roles in the US military during WW2.
Josh, the military B-17s were full of bombs, defensive ammo, carried 10 crewmen with their gear and the pilots were of minimum experience levels. These planes had wear/tear/battle damaged conditions and, to boot, at times questionable wx. Lastly, the procedures for takeoff were risky as planes took off while the preceding ones were on the runway. Thanks
There's something really interesting about hearing a knowledgeable person describe how things work and go wrong. I was on the edge of my seat the whole vid. Thank you for this. RIP ol' 909er & all souls who were lost.
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 not sure what you mean. Pretty sure that picture is Mac McCauley. He was the Pilot in command that day. He was the chief pilot for the plane and alos in charge of maintenance. He was a certified mechanic. I cod be mistaken. I took a flight on the 9 O 9 with him as pilot back on 2008. I realize mistakes where made. Serious failure of SMS and many failures of CRM. Tragedy that did not need to happen. I am not a.pilot just an aviation fan.
Thank you Mr. Brown. My wife and (at the time) 5 year old daughter toured the 909 and Witchcraft (B24) on the ground last Summer. It was really cool though the babe was afraid the plane would take off! As a life long aviation history enthusiast and A&P this accident breaks my heart. I really appreciate your detailed information. Thanks again.
Man, I miss seeing nine-o-nine flying over my neighborhood for a week every spring. I’m so glad I decided to go for a flight just months before she met her demise. Such a shame it had to end this way😔
Excellent commentary as always! I am saddened by this crews and passengers loss of life. Closing in on 65 years old and retiring from airline flying a couple years ago and observing some ( not all ) older pilots struggle. I believe flying a complicated aircraft as a B-17 ( in particular when an engine fails ) at age 75 ( as was this Captain ) is not a desirable situation. I absolutely mean no disrespect.
Im not so sad for the crew, their own incompetence and arrogance cost them their lives. I'm sad for the innocent passengers they killed and the loss of this historic irreplaceable aircraft.
@@Zwia. The Air Crew didn’t, “kill” anyone. Aviation comes with its own set of risks, especially when a 75 year old military aero plane is involved. And no a B-17, whether you deem it “irreplaceable” or not does not hold more importance than the souls lost during this accident.
@@dyingbreed1282 William's statement is not holding the loss of the aircraft as more important...and he's right, the captain shutdown #4 engine against the Loadmaster's warning because he said they were still climbing out. But I wouldn't have said crew though...this was on the captain. No CRM utilized at all. I don't have any sympathy for the captain.
I add the Loadmaster partially at fault too, now that I think about it. He didn't have a pre-flight passenger safety demo in place, especially for that type seatbelt.
@@SixTenVisuals I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't think it was beneficial to replace the old lap belt with modern restraints. I'm all for historical accuracy, but that ain't worth dying over.
Having flown DC6/7s. Old aircraft operation is an art rather than a science. Sad this happened.didn't have to. One other thing: Declare an EMERGENCY! Then the airspace is yours. A bit of paperwork and phone calls is better than crashing..
It is a lot of freaking work to fly these things, old and complicated Plumbers Nightmare. Beach 18's, DC3 captain... C46 almost.. You have to be a tough pilot and tough mechanic too. Jets are a walk in the park compared to old pistons.
@@tgmccoy1556 After flying old WW2 airplanes, jets are ridiculous easy to fly. And a lot safer too. You flew w 4 of those turbo compound engines?? You are a saint..
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 Yes nothing like changing a PRT in an 30+ mph wind in Winslow Az. We did run them at 2880 hp for takeoff and did not push them but I loved the R-2800 on the 6.
Dan Gryder was quite a bit tougher in his comments related to "Mac" and the safety standards of the warbird operations in-general. We'll have to wait for part 2 to see the rest of the story.
@@bobroberts2371 agreed. I was actually more-so surprised that Juan didn't really mention those things; we will have to wait and see what part 2 has in store
I flew on Nine-O-Nine almost a decade ago. I sat behind the co-pilot's seat, facing backwards, with a lap belt, if I recall correctly. What an absolute tragedy this accident was. As an ATP who's flown a full, piston airplane on half its engines, I can say it's not like flying a jet. When you lose a motor in a jet, you can sip your coffee, engage the autopilot, pull out your QRH, and make sure you deliberately perform all the necessary actions. With piston airplanes, its a little different: your window to "get it right" is narrower. That said, you still need to take a deep breath, keep calm, do your job, and work the issue, especially since you'll probably only get one crack at it.
My mom's younger brother was a radio operator in WWII. He was in the 91st bomb group which was the same group 909 was in. A cousin of mine went to the archives in Maryland and found old action reports of his missions. Found out he had flown a few missions on 909 in 1944. The B17 he flew most of his missions was the Mary Lou piloted by 2nd Lt. John Pullen. There are great photos of those old war birds on the 91st website. My cousin got to fly on 909 in 2004 when it was in Livermore, CA. It's a shame for the waste of an aircraft due to neglected maintanance.
JB, first of all, hope you're getting compensated for this video as it contains ADs. As usual your updates are detailed and accompanied with history and specifics that include maps, diagrams that are labeled for easy understanding and visual displays. Your hand gestures give me better knowledge of how it all works. Thanks once for your dedication. Take care and fly safe. 🖖🏽🤟🏽 P.S. Hope the family are safe and well? Regards to Cap'n PiP. 🦕🦖
I flew on her about 2 years ago out of Buchanan Field in northern CA and their B-25 a year after.. both were amazing flights. To those who lost their lives, RIP. Thoughts and prayers to those injured
This aircraft crashed in Beaver County airport durring an air show in the 1980s, it landed in the middle of the runway and rolled to the end of the runway and down an embankment, it was damaged and was in Beaver county Pennsylvania at our Air Heritage museum near Beaver Falls, PA for many years getting repaired till it could be flown out, the crew were negligent back then too.
2008 my son and I got a chance to fly on the 9-O-9. I believe Mack was the Pilot. Looks very similar and the co-pilot who was on his first trip with them was very experienced. Flight engineer and load master very good too. We got to assist in rollin& the engines over by hand.. We got good instructions on safety. Escapes routes. Even told that doors were designed as break away so do not step on one. Briefed on traveling through plane. Don't use the cables running through the cabin as you would be "controlling" the plane. Wonder flight out of Manchester NH in September . Sounds like something changed. I am a Merchant Mariner (chief engineer) and very familiar with Similar requirements like SMS and others in this report. We did get a thorough familiarization. We sat for take off and landing in the radio room strapped in. Once we were airborne we got the signal to get up. The overhead panel was removed so I was able to get some great pictures looking back at the runway with the tail of the plane. No plexiglass over it. It was a great 45 minute flight. Hope they clean up and continue flying. But safer.
Terribly sad all the way around. Thank you for your explanations and your candor and respectfulness discussing fellow pilots' decision making and efforts. You are a talented resource person. Thank you.
The Connecticut operation for "Hamilton Standard" (Now Collins Aerospace) is across the road from BDL. Of course in 1944 the company was located in East Hartford on the same campus as Pratt and Whitney. You're a wealth of information and you've got the knack for making the technical understandable for most of us non-technicians.
Volunteers or not. They obviously didn't have the integrity to properly maintain the airplane. Regardless the cost you still have the responsibility to maintain the aircraft in a safe and airworthy condition. If they didn't have the budget to do it then they should not have been operating. They knew the aircraft had problems and still flew it. Their ignorance cost lives. And am very surprised they didn't have more accidents.
@@robertwiley1478 KNOWINGLY flying this aircraft with bad magnetos on at least 2 engines, especially with paying passengers onboard was an appalling decision. It is not a good situation when the need for money compromises the proper repair of known safety defects.
@@swiftadventurer Ok grammar police, I actually agree with you (the word should have been "Regardless"), and I feel your pain in that it has entered into the lexicon, but perhaps you needn't have asked your question.
10 paying passengers had their lives put at risk in order to ensure that the Collings Foundation would get badly needed money. The fact that these people had their lives risked by being flown on an aircraft with KNOWN safety issues, the crew had been dealing with for some time, and that they were never informed that they were being put at risk......is just simply appalling. There is no justification for flying Nine O Nine on that flight. In fact there was a critical need to stop flying that aircraft until ALL the ignition and electrical troubles had been adequately repaired and certified. The fact the pilot was doing the A&P work on Nine O Nine lacked tremendous oversight. A friend is an A&P mechanic in Bangor, ME and would NOT OK any aircraft for flight unless he would let his wife and children fly on it. That is a much more professional and smart attitude than was displayed the day of this crash. Considering that they had been flying the aircraft with known magneto issues, on two engines, for weeks demonstrates a cavalier attitude towards safety. I love these old WWII aircraft and believe as many as possible should be kept flying. But they absolutely need to be in the hands of some people who take safety far more seriously than the Collings Foundation was at that time.
@@flyonbyya there's a really good movie. I think it's more of a documentary. It's a Mormon movie but it's still really good. It's called "a wing and a prayer The Saga of Utah man." But it's about a B-17 pilot and crew on a B-17 called Utah man that did all the required number of missions. I thought it was pretty good movie anyway.
A perk of working for my State's Aeronautics Commission was helping every time I could the various groups keeping the warbirds flying and was fortunate to fly on most of them. My fav were the B-17s and I vividly recall staring down into the open bomb bay opening inflight with just a cable going around it.
+ JIMJAMSC I think part of the problem was the local FSDO inspector in Orlando that oversaw this B-17 was killed in a Curtiss Jenny crash in Geogia in 2016 and his position was never replaced. So the B-17 fell into a maintenance black hole.
Whenever you appear I click immediately! My father flew in B-25s in WWII, so this is especially sad. Your calm, professional telling of all kinds of events (Oroville dam??) makes for the best type of RU-vid video. Thank you and I'll be there for the next one!
Thanks, Juan - excellent as always. Looking forward to the engine analysis. Seems like the wrong engine was caged from what I've read so far. Thankful there were any survivors at all on this one. While there can be alot of criticism thrown at the PIC, that credit goes to Mac for keeping her from stalling. R.I.P those lost.
@@roscoejones4515 - Thanks for the info - I thought I had saw that too, but wasn't sure. I read some conflicting info somewhere and confused it with the NTSB report.
Rode on the Nine 0’ Nine several years ago. Sat in the radio operator seat just like my Dad did in WWII. One of the most exciting experiences of my life.
It came to our town Fort Collins , CO. Went to the airport to see it. Did an internal tour my kids loved it. Anyway I bought a keychain that has the 909 embroidered on it which I'm I got it. Really sad the loss of such a jewel.
Juan, my partner and I were working outside in Simsbury, CT that day at a location about 7 miles south of the airport underneath the final approach to 06. We worked there often and were used to the planes landing overhead. I heard the crash and said to her something's crashed at the airport, followed by eerie silence the rest of the afternoon as we worked. My sense of foreboding was almost distracting. RIP to all those killed. It makes me a bit sick now to think about that day . . .
In the eye witness video it looks like he is full left rudder trying to get the plane back on the runway. It could be he was too slow for effective directional control at that point. By letting the gear down so soon he bled off the speed he needed at the end. He may have been the most experienced B-17 pilot alive today, but he still had very little experience in an emergency like this. Commercial pilots get many hours in simulators where than can go through things like multi-engine outages on takeoff. Pilots on planes like this do not get that.
Download youtube vanced and microg (to be able to log in in yt v) and no more annoying ads, and you can turn off your phone and YT still works (good for podcasts and music). I don't use regular yt anymore. You can download it by searching for it in a search engine, it's not in Google play for obvious reasons.
I paid for a ride for my brother in law, my nephew and I for a flight on the 909'er on 3/18/2019 at Love Field in Dallas. What a ride. I have numerous go pro videos I need to piece together and load on youtube, amazing shots. Mack and the crew (RIP) were great. I always remember my dad explaining the interior of the plane when I was a kid, as he flew one in WWII... Look forward to the next update. Thanks...
Am I wrong in my understanding of the level of importance to try and make slow turns only in the direction away from the bad engine? I was trained to bank up to 5 degrees toward the good engine and make pattern towards the good engine. Seems like there are a good amount of twin engine out crash accidents having the pilots flying turns into the failed engine , slow airspeed and then spinning into the ground. Looks like the B17 in this case was in a right traffic pattern with the outer eight engine out. Would to like to hear comments on this; would it be helpful for this practice to be emphasized more in multi engine training?
I felt a sense of connection to that plane, as I toured it about 2 months prior to the crash. I was there for a flight in their P-51 (AWESOME!!). So sad to lose those lives, as well as another Warbird.
I was in Leesburg FL when the Collings foundation had a collection of these warbirds including a B25, a B17 and I believe a B29 and one other I can’t remember. I was driving home and actually heard the plane before I saw it. Naturally I had to stop and take a look and found they were offering rides for $400.00. You could tour the inside of the planes for free but the flights weren’t. To this day, even after seeing this, I get a huge twinge of regret for not taking a flight. I wasn’t apprehensive and I could easily afford the cost so to this day I’m still mad I didn’t do it. I love airplanes, and to give up a once in a lifetime chance to have history land, and an opportunity to experience it in my own backyard is something I’ll rue forever. BTW, this is an absolutely fantastic channel! Thank you.
The Collings Foundation had you lay down flat on your back (and w/straps) towards the rear of the B-17 during take off and landing. ( I don’t recall any sort of actual seats) When I flew on her in 2013, I was with an 80-90 year old ex ww2 B-17 pilot and remember thinking how bad it would be to have to egress in an emergency since the only realistic way out would be from the tail-end hatch as the starboard and port waist gun windows had plexiglass in place, unlike the radio compartment, which on the 909 had no plexiglass on its ‘roof’ and would be an excellent place to get out if nearby, fit and quickly able to...
XB W, I have flown on Nine-O-Nine a few times, always seated in the waist for take off and landing, and there was never a situation where passengers were laying down flat on their back. If you think about it, that would not even be possible. They had padded seat backs up against the curving wall of the fuselage, and a padded seat cushion, resting on the plywood floor. Waist passengers were pretty much sitting on the floor, but they were seated upright more than laying back, and certainly not laying flat on their backs.
@@youtuuba yeah you’re right, now that you describe it I can remember, you are sort of on the pads like you said but not seats in the traditional sense. And you’re also correct that you’re not flat, your more so on your butt and back with the curve of the fuselage and seat pads under you. Thanks for the reminder!
For the longest time Ive been trying to figure out how they got turned, But now after you explained it with the possibility of no power on three and four engines it makes sense. He was doing everything he could to save it. Condolences to the families, Terrible loss.
Thank you J.B. for your no BS information on the subject at hand. As far as monetisation, there were lots of ads in this video that I watched, so somebody is getting something out of it, I really hope it is you :)
I've always wanted to be a pilot. Wasn't able to due to anxiety disorder. My first flight when I was younger was a British Airways flight on a 747 from Chicago to London. I loved it. I even got to see the concorde take off before my flight to Edinburgh. That was awesome. The whole terminal shook when it took off.
One thing I do wonder about, given the pilot and co-pilots ages, I wonder about physical endurance. I understand they probably were well within their mental capacities to fly this aircraft. To my knowledge the B-17 did not have any power assisted controls other than electric servo tabs. If you're having to hold the rudder with your leg and fighting with the control yoke, it takes an amazing amount of endurance even in the B-17, which is recognized as a pilot's airplane. I remember reading about a pilot in the eighth Air Force they had to hold full rudder due to battle damage and two engines. His co-pilot was incapacitated by injuries. When he finally got the plane on the ground he couldn't get out of the seat because his leg was knotted up so much from holding the rudder . He had to just wait around for a bit before he can pull himself out of the seat. I am not making any claims about their ability to fly the aircraft under normal circumstances, I am sure they are very very competent pilots. I just wonder about the physical endurance issues.
As usual, Juan's presentation is spot on. To me, it's not a tragedy that we lost an old airplane, it's a tragedy that 7 passengers and 2 pilots were lost by their families, and that 5 people were seriously injured in the crash and gasoline fueled fire. My question is this - were the passengers aware that they were flying in an aircraft that was significantly more dangerous than any regularly scheduled airline flight in the US, and were there any kids on that plane? I ask, because I'm 100% supportive of adults making their own decisions about risk, but I doubt that passengers were aware of the risks they were facing on that flight, or any flight in a ww2 warbird.
Thanks Juan for the interesting and in-depth analysis of all matters re aviation. This B-17 accident shouts Human Factors failures all along the line. The Human Factors domino's started falling a while before the accident. It is so interesting that we see many of these factors present in this war bird accident
Thank you Juan for not skimping on this coverage. I took a photo of this aircraft over the lake near my home in North Texas on March 2007 and have had a heightened interest in this incident since it took place. As an A&P, retired, I am very interested in part 2 about the engines!
having flown onthe B 24 out of santa barbara which was a thrilling ride, i find this report rivetting! the B 24 flight while exciting was also a little worrying for a lay person who knows nothing abt planes. the “Witchcraft” is an old plane and i felt exhilarated to be riding in it but fearful as well. my uncle was a B24 pilot army airforce shot down and killed in crash on borneo , that being my motivation to experience the B 24 flight. thank you Juan Browne for these in depth follow up reports. cant get enough of your expert analysis. happy holidays toyou and yours.
The number of ads was obnoxious. One more interruption, and I was going to 86 this video. RU-vid is subscribing to the photobucket school of thought: "annoy users into fleeing the platform"
I just found this video, and didn't realize this happened 3 years ago now - and now we have lost "Texas Raiders" to a mid-air. And yes, it breaks my heart that both the people and the planes are lost. I think, one of the problems with these aircraft isn't that they're "hard to fly": the problem is that there was a LOT of knowledge on "how" to fly these planes during wartime, that was never passed on to future pilots - knowledge that was never written down. I say that based on my own experience working as a intern back in high school, at a FBO that restored T-6's, back in the late '70's/early '80's: earlier this year, I watched a video on here of a guy trying to start a T-6, and he nearly burned the plane to the ground! He clearly didn't know the proper way to start the engine - who knows if he even knew how to fly the plane. Meanwhile, I saw another video on here years ago, of a WW-2 vet that used to fly C-47's, that was taken for a ride in one, and was asked if he'd like to take the controls: he took the controls (he was in his 90's now), and he flew that plane as if he'd never stopped flying them! He then went on to tell the current pilot several tips that are not printed, and he showed him how it's done. It was amazing how everything was fresh in his mind. He even showed him how to better trim the aircraft. I took my ex for a ride on a B-17 once, and the plane we were on had no special passenger seats, so we were given crew positions: being the only couple, we got to sit in the nose during takeoff - her in the navigator's seat, me in the bombardier's seat!!! Being well-versed in the operations of such aircraft, I lined her out on everything from how to cinch her harness (they're only really a pain when they get old, because they get stiff when not used everyday), to warning her about how the brakes will sound "like an old school bus", and not to worry about them. I talked her through the engine run-up & why it's done, and all, but since she'd only flown 2 times before this (in large passenger jets) she was still terrified, lol. She did go to tears when, after telling her to keep her feet on the catwalk, to avoid any chance of damaging the skin of the aircraft, she commented that all the armor plating had been removed: I told her "There never was any armor plating: they had to save every ounce of weight for the bombs they carried. That's why enemy fighters tore the planes apart." Only thing that freaked me out, was just how far forward the bombardier's seat is in that glass nose: using only peripheral vision, you can't see the rest of the plane around you, and it's the strangest feeling! There was a lot of un-written information that was never passed down, because nobody figured that it would ever be needed - and here we are. By no means am I saying that the pilots that fly these planes aren't qualified - but there is a lot of information about these planes that they don't know. I'm saying that they know how to fly them per "the book", but "the book" doesn't replace real-world experience, and the fewer of these planes there are, the less of a chance that current pilots of them will be willing to learn exactly what these planes can/cannot do, versus what "the book" says they can/cannot do. That is a very sad thing, because we will eventually not be able to see them fly anymore, let alone go for a ride in one.
Always difficult to critique, with 20-20 hindsight, but here are some thoughts. In the UK we ran C-47s for pleasure flights with a qualified air-hostess, and a normal ‘here are the exits’ hostie-briefing. And yes, some seats had those fiddly tanged seatbelts. It was accepted that you would run a failing engine as long as possible, because the C47 was not Performance-A. In other words, it was not guaranteed you could climb away on one engine. It will be interesting to see why they stopped running. With the B17 you should be able to climb away on three, at those weights. But no 4-engine aircraft (even modern jet airliners) are certified to climb away on just two donkeys. With just two running, at take-off weight, it is likely you cannot maintain altitude, and have to gently descend. Likewise, the aircraft would become quite a handful, and both operating engines would have to be at idle on touchdown or a swing will quickly develop. .
I'll call myself lucky that I was able to witness 909 flying some laps in the northeast. I was out working in the yard and there's no mistaking the thunder of a set of radial engines and a glance upwards at that red tail even in the distance. Excellent first segment.
Thanks for this really great report Juan. All I can say is damn, so many things could have been done better yet they still were so close to landing without the crash :-(
Oh hey. If you're ever flying over Oroville dam at some point, it would be great to see what's been happening. I know. Old story, but the dam still holds a place in my head, even though I'm just an old Aussie that didn't even know about the dam before the 'almost' failure. When the Oroville crisis began I watched a number of channels that were providing live coverage. However, many of them allowed conspiracy theories to overwhelm the comments. Then I found your coverage and I ignored the rest, other than the live cam views from the Water Board. I'll always be an admiring watcher of your channel, Juan. You cut through the BS and provide us with facts, not conjecture based on ignorance.
I got a ride on the 909 in 2012 thanks to my wife's grandfather and the Collings Foundation. It was a childhood dream come true, a RIDE OF A LIFETIME, and A GREAT HONOR to be a part of it. The local news covered his flight (he jumped out of one and was a POW). I posted it on my channel. I was devastated in Oct'19 when I heard of the accident and lives lost. :(
There were eight ads run by RU-vid during this video. I have news for the companies that these ads were for. I will not buy any of your products or services. RU-vid should be prevented from placing ads in any videos that are demonetized.
My wife and I toured Nine-O-Nine during its display at Wiley Post airport in Oklahoma City, OK on March 24, 2019. I wanted to take a ride, but it was just prohibitively expensive for our budget (we're retired). I was so saddened to hear of this fatality accident when it occurred. So, your review of the NTSB's report held great interest to me. I look forward to your second video and your final conclusions (along with the NTSB's). As always, thank you so much for sharing. Steve
Well done Juan. Great update. Keep up the good work. By the way, You Tube needs some major competition. They take censorship to the limit. They should be ashamed of their behavior. So, good luck with your future editions and Merry Christmas! We appreciate it!
Good information about this tragedy. Sad lost of life and the injuries to the others. And also the loss of this historic aircraft. I would like to hear how the injured people are doing.
He buried that nose gear in the mud there. Looks like things were pretty icy there this morning. Up here in MA we've got about a foot so far. Blowing and drifting, so hard to measure exactly.
So many crashes are initiated by an aircraft turning on the dead engines side to attempt to reach a runway. But the core issue here is flying old 1930's aircraft designs that were only ever designed for a short wartime lifespan. Having worked in aviation and seeing how old airframes, systems, engines become increasingly problematic over time there should be a set cut off point for flying 80 year old aircraft. Using difficult to use military style seat belts in a joy ride aircraft is insane. Just too many exemptions are set up and this needs to stop. How many crashes and losses of life does it take to stop this preventable madness.
Loved the video and the facts...will almost never criticize a pilots choice in an emergency but have to wonder why Mac chose to turn into the dead engines...lots of things stick with me as second nature, like lower the nose and raise the dead so curious why not a left hand pattern. Being an old 130 guy kinda drives home the difficulty of two out on the same side. Looking fwd to part two as I started out on 3350s on a Skyraider and 1820s on T28s.
