NTSB not sure if the bolts on blown-out door plug on Boeing MAX 9 were even attached 

... and especially on other variants of the MAX, like the 7 and 8, which are currently not being inspected

Its what happens when you no longer have pride on the job. First down 7 yards, second down to the 9 yard line becomes more important.

Yeah, what else is loose, made in china and not heat treated properly, etc etc.

this is a Made in America problem.Nowt to do with China.@@MrEricmopar

Oh everything. Don't fly Boeing FTC needs to go in with Anti-trust lawsuits. Maybe even Amazon needs to buy the Seattle half.

😂😂😂😂

Fascism in the aviation sector.

We’re these planes put together in SC?

Apparently they are claiming the fact that the cabin door blew open was also a safety feature, despite all pilots saying that was the first they had heard of such a "feature".

“Bean counters” are always in charge of any company, it’s business, they have to make money. The fault here lies with the general tendencies in corporate management of all us companies, and how that’s been expressed by Boeings upper management, who are they key decision makers. Finance advises, but management makes the decisions. And upper Boeing management has eroded their safety culture chasing short term expense reductions, and busting unions. Safety culture in a company is not just pretty words on paper, it has to be physically implemented with people, equipment, and procedures. And these need to be performed by trained, experienced, rested, and well managed people. When they start to take out those supports, you start to see what’s happening today.

One lawsuit can trump decades of penny pinching, not worth it.

Yeah and then it turns out a certain "passengers"... stole the bolts off of there and clucked them for pocket change.

@@losslessthoughts Persistent cost overruns destroy companies, which is why we are now down to two major manufacturers in the entire world.

@@jb5music What is the point in inventing rubbish?

Also people that had the misfortune of working at today's Boeing.

Yup, made in USA 😄

You’ll stay home?

Really, how important is the rudder anyway?

why are they loose?

@@TWak4ord Well, the "good" reason they'd be loose is because of material creep (basically the bolts stretching from being repeatedly stressed). And they just need to be re-tightened on a schedule to counteract the creep. But it's sounding more and more like they're loose because nobody ever tightened them.

Loose? in 3 months? since brand new? BS. This design has been around since the 707 and this new plane has a history of "pressurization issues" @@solandri69

Loose? in months? the plane is brand new? & already had 'pressurization issues' @@solandri69

She is cute though. 🙂

Majority of Kids today are exceptionally desensitized to dramatic events mostly by no fault of there own as they have access to traumatic events on a 24 hour basis which in turn can give kids a false sense of security.

She's listening to music too lol

​@@Dyingkill kids today? Kids yesterday went to fight wars -- bullets and explosions -- and retained a sense of humour at least in some part.

@@Dyingkill Kids have always had a false sense of security. They have tiny walnut brains.

At least some of the bolts weren't the same ones, but for the track or roller/pin.

someone sleeping on the job , get a mug shot of the final inspector for them bolts , was it a diversity hire

Probably too much outsourcing to subcontractors and foreign countries beside stupid people who cannot read instruction, blue prints and etc....Might be reading Chinese or other European countries language....Even the union need degreed people to run the union...Stupid.

@jordanrodrigues1279 hopefully we'll find the paperwork that has the same new kid doing the install and his super signing off being his uncle that got him the job.

@@cardboardboxification Not a joke, but management is forcing people to work excessive hours, 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. People who are not fit to work night shift definitely should not work at industry that is critical for safety of others. Driven force is greed, maximum exploitation of sources for bigger profit. Safety it is primary on their mind, but safety metrics significantly dropping down when speed is involved. Speed and safety dont get along well.

update the CAD drawings

An OTA

Just like MCAS 🤣🤣

It will be on a I-Pad.

They can also redefine the words “door” & “closed” :)

It's as if every single American based company is being destroyed by communists. Budweisher, Disney, northface, Boeing. The lost goes on.

More of a McDonell Doughlas now.

That’s also about the time that they shut down the 747 line.

Exactly, if this was at a higher altitude, people would have undone their belts *and* there would've been a higher pressure difference - all but certain multiple people would've died.

Well that did not happen,so.

@@UQRXDwould have been cooler if it did

Question: WHY was nobody sitting there? Coincidence or "there's some noise coming from there, let's block these seats".

@@henkvandenbergh1301 Great question. It was in the news that the cabin pressure alarm went off 3 times......so they decided no flying over the ocean. That is upsetting.....essentially ignoring an alarm.

thats why you have a final quality control check , too many eggs in the basket

There was a hint that the loose bolts on United planes were not the castellated ones but other ones in the assembly.

if that were true the door wouldn't have lasted one flight. more likely the cotter pins were not installed, nuts vibrated off and BAM !

I agree 💯 %.

Absolutely

and what other Boeing models does this same methodology and lack of QA apply to!

@@simonbaxter8001 They've already had those types of problems with other planes, including their military KC-46 tanker, in 2019: "Boeing leadership was forced to ground its 767-based KC-46 tankers for the past week after the Air Force expressed concern about loose tools and other foreign object debris (FOD) found in various locations inside the completed airplanes, according to internal company memos." “We have USAF pilots here for flight training and they will not fly due to the FOD (foreign object debris) issues and the current confidence they have in our product that has been discovered throughout the aircraft,” factory management wrote in a Feb. 21 memo to employees on the 767 assembly line. “This is a big deal,” the memo emphasized. The 787 has also had manufacturing flaws.

Think about it. There were probably 2 workers that installed the door plug, a supervisor watching over them, a quality control inspector, and then the worker that installed the interior paneling pieces with the door right in front of their face. No one noticed something amiss???

No. More like $250 each

They don't go shopping at the local Home Depot. At least I hope they don't.

Given that United has reported finding loose bolts, this sounds more like a lazy worker not doing his job thoroughly, or possibly even skipping doing his job (not bothering to install bolts). And Boeing (well, Spirit Aerosystems) having insufficient quality control to catch his deficient work.

now i know why it's called a bone-us

LOLOL. Look out for a sudden run on bolts at Home Depot.....

boeing is a joke 😡

Don't forget this plane gave pressurization warnings not once, not twice, but three times. Highly doubt that the loose plug didn't have anything to do with that. Instead of grounding the aircraft to figure out why, Alaska airlines banned it from flying over water and continued flying it.

@@plmn93 Alaska Airlines has one of the absolute worst air disasters in history - 100% caused by lack of maintenance: Alaksa Flight 261 (RIP to all on board that day, pilots gave it all they had, but there were already doomed).

@@mambi74 I remember that, what a terrifying way to go. The pilots did incredibly well but it was inevitably an impossible situation.

That’s EXACTLY what I said in my post. I will never fly in a Boeing plane again. They don’t care about people they just care about $$$$

Is Boeing disappointed that this learning opportunity was missed?

Well considering this design has been used for decades without incident, it's likely the former.

Door having only four bolts tells me there only for retaining/alignment the door in place. Not for structural integrity. I'd be looking at the alignment that brought on structural fatigue on the sealing tracks.

Hopefully somebody finds and returns his shirt.

Who knows, bolts were on the floor, the buzzer went for lunch, instead of making sure they were installed, lunch was more important. Lunch ends, next worker comes, and onto next part.

Every plug needs timestamp photo(s) signed off by installer of the installed bolts before the worker is done.@@northernsamba7388

@@northernsamba7388 it’s not any individual workers fault, it’s the system and management thereof that they work in

I think at least one case was the bolts were loose on the pin or guide assembly, rather than the retaining bolts referred to here. A loose bolt wouldn't necessarily matter much for the retaining bolts, but it's always bad for the track/pin parts.

I totally agree, anyone trying to suggest that design is the issue is dangerously poorly informed. This was a lack of safety checks when work was being carried out to build the plane/plug as it should have been signed off as safe by at least two people AFTER it had been installed. The point it's that if safety was lax with this then other components could be missing on other planes

How would the door stay there for even the first minute of flight if the bolts were missing?

@@HuFlungDung2 because it has to move up roughly 1.5 inches to clear the stops that prevent it opening. It is pushed into the stops by air pressure from inside. There should be 4 bolts to prevent it moving up to open, you'd only need 1 to prevent it coming off, so it looks like there were none installed and over time it worked it's way up due to vibrations.

@@HuFlungDung2 it would not have even reached cruising altitude.

@@xaiano794 no. more likely the cotter keys were not installed, the nuts vibrated off, the bolts slid out and BAM!!!

Won't be any use unless you are wearing it

The CEO's desk, in fact the entire C-suite, should be desks on the factory floor.

The bolts have a castle nut with a pin. That is secure against vibration and shock, when properly installed.

@@GH-oi2jfyeah it seems odd that all four would have gone missing during the incident. I imagine they will find out the plug was not installed or maintained correctly rather than that the hardware itself failed.

🤦‍♂️ cotter pin, guess you don’t know about them

no they didn't, no bolts, lucky it flew 3 months@@GH-oi2jf

What a plane wreck.

not in turbulence

Would leave evidence on the metal.

Any one of the four would have held the door plug from moving.

The door plug retaining bolts are horizontal. As they mentioned the NTSB microscopic inspection of the door will show if bolts had been attached or not anyway. The bolts are there to stop the door lifting, which is how the door is opened when it's used as an emergency door (wasn't needed as that for this plane, due to fewer passenger seats in their layout)

@@goaway6786 Yup. We'll see soon 🍿

It was improper assembly, not a fault design

The design has a point of failure - a human can forget to put the bolts back in place after opening that door or forget them during assembly. A redesign using a lever that sticks out preventing the attachment of the side panels unless properly stowed (and thereby latching the pins in the track) would eliminate that failure mode.

New plane was like 2 months old@@wally7856

​​@@wally7856NO, just comply with MAKER CHECKER rule ! Complication is not a solution. A nut plus cotter pin wont get loose PERIOD ! THIS ISNT A DOOR !

@@wally7856 Assuming they didn't forget to attach the lever.

"All our fundamental design flaws are totally obscured by all our superficial design flaws..."

This is not a flaw in the plane ! Someone in maintenance didn’t do the job properly ! A chain is only as strong as its weakest link . Those doing maintenance scares the shit out of me when you realize how critical this is as compared to car maintenance. I don’t like to fly for that very reason !

Exactly.

The other planes had bolts that were loose. What bureaucrat? That's the fault of lazy overpaid union workers not doing their job.

nope. door wouldn't last one flight with no bolts. more likely no cotter pins, nuts vibrated off, bolts slipped out and BAM !!!

Bureaucrat? This was the fault of lazy overpaid union workers not doing simple shit right.

The panel that blew out is the "door plug" as it covers the location where a door could be installed. The door plug is attached to the aircraft using bolts

@@vectornine Your point is so obvious that it goes without saying. The problem is with the plural "plugs" in the video title and description.

Yeah the bone head media is calling the bolts that hold it in "plugs" @@nathanjamesbaker

Yeah, but proofreading is SO boring.

MSM news is good only for sensationalizing, they are not for delivering true, unbiased, concise information.

Usually CEOs get paid in shares, so if the company value goes down, essentially their pay goes down.

They already replaced the CEO previously, doesn't seem to have helped. I don't think it's ever going to be a quick change, their entire structure / procedures are the institutionalized result of what's been going on in Boeing for decades.

If the bolts were missing, it's not the fault of Boeing. The door plugs are routinely removed while the airlines install their own equipment before putting the plane into service. Missing bolts would be the fault of the airline worker who last installed the door plug.

They also don't build them where they used to, or with the same people.

Overall, planes are safer today than ever before. So yeah, you're right, just not in the way you thought.

@@plmn93 yeah, Airbus planes

@@ajkulac9895 All planes.

That Hobsson's choice

I don't think this was it's maiden flight.

wind chill is real: even on water not freezing my boat w/o a windshield I'd freeze up.

remember airliners are pressurized to the same as about 8000 feet. the difference in pressure between 16,000 and 30,000 is 250 mBar. about half of pressure difference between 8,000 and 16,000.

How are you sure they did not and the guy declined? Also when would another passenger be able to do that? Sure, let me get out of my seat and go into my luggage in the overhead bin during an emergency and get the guy a shirt. At best, maybe another passenger could give him a coat if they were wearing one and was nearby and saw that he was shirtless. And it fit him. One thing that was noted by the crew was that is was hard to hear and communicate with a hole in the plane. As for blankets, they do not offer them anymore on planes unless you are in first or business class.

Haven't you heard? FAs get scolded if they give blankets to cattle-class pax.

Passengers tickets will go up to pay the significant fines !

If the bolts are proven to have been missing, it wasn't Boeing's fault. The door plug gets removed after Boeing delivers the plane by the airline so they can install their equipment. It's not a design flaw, and Boeing will not face any fines at all because it wasn't their fault.

Because the news media are _idiots._ New media: "Plugs, bolts...whats the difference? Were not selling facts, were selling commercials." _...kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down...._

Writing RU-vid video titles and descriptions for the media must be a very low-paying job.

This is the kind of people in charge of installing the door plugs.

Yeah the “door plug” is what flew off of the plane and was found in that guy’s back yard, so it was absolutely attached until then! It’s the bolts holding the plug in place that they aren’t sure were there to begin with.

@@nathanjamesbaker probably done by the same person who installed the missing bolts

they know that. they know what happened, but now they gonna spend lot$ of time in the lab proving it

Not the case. With the bolts in place the plug door cannot move. That’s the idea. Locked in closed position

LOL en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Airbus_A320_family

@@TWak4ord Your link proves the TS' point. Airbus is an incredibly reliable plane.

B triple 7 still the safest airliner in the sky.

Boeing will compensate them

Almost certainly Boeing will have to compensate the airlines, the same as with the 2021 grounding.

@@Werrf1if you were referring to the MCAS-related grounding, I’m pretty sure that was 2019 and into 2020. I remember because I flew a lot in 2019 and not at all in 2021. I ended up flying in the space of time between other international groundings and the US grounding. I remember my husband checking to make sure I wasn’t scheduled to fly on the Max during one of my trips.

@@aELLimA You're right - the compensation was paid in 2021, and I got the dates mixed up.

There aren't any metric bolts used anywhere in Boeing aircraft.

The torque for these will be a little more than finger tight. They're not clamping anything, they're strictly pins.

The SAFETYWIRE that LITERALLY puls on the bolt in a tightening fashion makes it IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE BOLT to back out... I worked on aircraft for 5 years and I k ow what safety wire works. This situation is a result of some lazy maintainer who filled a DEI check mark not doing his job...

@@MastahZen-fr9ko If you use them! wouldn't be the first time someone neglected to insert the cotter pins and properly bend a leg.

Boeing worker

Boeing CEO

CEO didnt leave out the bolts@@granitecat1

@@TWak4ord who will check QC people then?

Accountability ha not in the US.

They should be checked at least twice post installation. The question is, do they even have employees who check at all?

Sure. But what about the person who supervised those two? And what about the person who decided to streamline the process? And . . . At the end of the day, the CEO and everyone between him and the crews that failed probably need the sack as well, unless any of them bothered to raise concerns.

you forgot to insert the cotter pins and so did they.

Your comment is quite ignorant. The door plugs are removed by the airline when they install their own cabin equipment. That means any missing bolts are the fault of Alaska Airlines. Nothing to do with Boeing.

@@e-curb 100% false, this was installed by Boeing (technically one of their contractors) and Alaska Airlines had only received it a few months ago.

At least this news crew didn't identify the pilot as Sum ting wong.

Ball cuts !

Hey hey, that's a bit harsh. I mean the shareholders all received great dividends last year considering how much money Boeing lost. Think of the poor shareholders and company managers. A bit selfish me thinks.🤣

The former of your examples has been going on for decades... DECADES.... the latter is new and the issue.

speaking of getting things right -- bolts didn't hold it to the fuselage. air pressure does.

The stop pads don’t have bolts.

The stop pads are through drillled and are supposed to have fasteners. Nobody is showing this except for I photo I found on Facebook. I would send you the photo if I knew how.

The stop pads are through drillled and are supposed to have fasteners. Nobody is showing this except for I photo I found on Facebook. I would send you the photo if I knew how.

The stop pads are through drillled and are supposed to have fasteners. Nobody is showing this except for I photo I found on Facebook. I would send you the photo if I knew how.

The stop pads are through drillled and are supposed to have fasteners. Nobody is showing this except for I photo I found on Facebook. I would send you the photo if I knew how.

Mainly culture.

Made in USA😄

the plugs are removed for final at Renton. It's on Boeing.

@garymartin9777 you're absolutely correctamundo Gary..........however, the exact same thing is going on in Renton as is wichita. There is a significant contract force. Boeing employees are not treated properly and thus an everlasting revolving door. Some people just don't give a fuck. I've contracted in twenty states over forty years. At Spirit Aero and Boeing you have dedicated people who have spent half of a lifetime working with one company and then shit happens..........no fault of their own, no one wants to new hire unless they're desperate..........old timers stick around out of necessity and contractors are paid stupid money to do little to make a difference. Just did a contract in wichita last year and it was pathetic! I love Boeing because they have always been the standard. Queen of the skies! Better get their shit together cause the last thing we need is for scarebus to rule the Aviation industry.

Ntsb mentioned yesterday that the right side plug door was installed correctly.

The bolts don't hold the door on. You should learn how the door plug is retained before making such comments.

the won't fire the diversity hire , it's racist

Well said!

the final assembly team in Renton routinely removes them before work and reinstalls when done.

Care to elaborate your ignorance

the door would not have survived the first flight without them. now the cotter pins are a different story.

so what happens if you forget the cotter pin?

@@garymartin9777 the nut could back off the bolt. Then the bolt would have to migrate back through the hole for the door to become unsecured.

4) missing cotter pins, nuts vibrated off

The engineers had nothing to do with it. It is a management problem.

so does a cotter pin -- if you use it !

the other door is intact. it really doesn't prove what happened to this one.

the design is decades old and used on a variety of other aircraft. it's stood the test of time. first ever failure.

Those bolts only prevent lifting the door. They don’t hold it against the air pressure.

sure. they're hanging with Hunter Biden.