The original "Dying Light" perk wasn't super powerful, it probably didn't boost the win-rate of Killers and it was also very "thematic". But they changed it because it encouraged unhealthy tunneling. Why they can't see that the same thing applies to OoO absolutely baffles me.
Dang, so you're telling me that the most hated survivor perk, so much so that many killers will throw the game to punish its user, has a really low survival rate?? That's crazy man we should nerf Discordance.
What tilts me the most is that they even acknowledge that performance isn't indicative of strength with Nurse, then go on to say Object isn't problematic because the performance isn't a problem. Insane.
Yeah, hey guys Ruin is in 90% of games we’re changing it. We realize DS is also used in 90% of games by multiple survivors each game, however that’s something that killers should learn to play around.
@Xela Flow ”80% of cosmetics they sell are for survivor. Do the math” Okay time to do some math. 5 players / 1 killer / 4 survivors. Lemme see 4/5 = 0,8 which is 80% yup the math checks out
The big problem I have with Nurse is How they see her as "good as It is" when in reality....If you play Nurse there is only 2 situations where you win. 1: If you slug everyone 2: If the survivors dont know How to counter nurse Because I main Nurse and I can down someone in 5s It doesnt matter, because you waste so much time waiting for your power to come back(and this time waiting stacks up by the end of the match, its not only 3s its everytime you use the Power to reach survivors or move around). There is quite a few matches where I always have someone on the hook as Nurse and they dont last long on chases with me but gens keep getting done after each down. So I stopped playing killer because I dont want to get into a match and be forced by the game mechanics to slug everyone instead of playing chill and HAVING FUN, Im not having Fun with everyone on the ground, neither are the survivors
@Xela Flow I just mean. Isn’t it kinda obvious that there’s going to be 4x as many cosmetics for the survivors compared to the killers. I don’t see how that’s a argument that behaviour prefers surviors
@Xela Flow I don’t see how anything I said implied that I thought so. What I’m saying is that your perceived survivor bias “because they have more cosmetics” doesn’t make sense. By your own words, it makes sense if you “do the math” that survivors have more cosmetics.
Hope you will see this comment, dunno why I want you to. This mentality of devs literally killed bhvr's other game -- deathgarden. They looked at their data, which kept saying that two hunter characters were losing all the time, so they decided to buff those. Guess what -- they were already on top of the game, good player would never lose by playing as one of those two characters, but the stats said otherwise, because those two characters were free to a newcomers and they just didn't know how to play due to non-existing tutorial. So at the end we were facing two op hunter characters constantly and they were winning not because of skill of a player, but because of their strenght, so everyone just left the game.
I've been saying this to friends for months. I swear, they must be selling data on what people will tolerate. Their company name is Behavior after all, lol
A social experiment based on stats by people who don't know how to interpret stats. This game has some pretty disappointing updates, 2 steps forward and 1 back is too generous of an interpretation :(
@@l01230123 No, this is the metagame, how much BS will people tolerate inside of a game AND decisions coming from the devs ? I bet they are NSA proxy or something.
The devs need to stop looking at statistics. Of course the object will die more. The killer always kills the object user. The problem is one object in a 4 man swf is 4 objects and 3 have no downside. The same with DS. DS loses kills and completely kills a killers pressure. People who use noed probably get one kill most of the time. Statistics are not the way to balance dbd. And don't get me started on the kill stats they released with nurse at the bottom and pig and bubba at the top
Hey, someone that can be seen allllllll game long dies more. They’re probably above average at looping so that means the other 3 escape but who cares about that stat I guess right?
You just don't know how to balance the game, bimbo. Noed user gets 1 kill most of the time? Then it should be buffed to not be a hex and be active during the whole trial. Sarcasm alert
Object of Obsession is a Nightmare when you play as Freddy cause when the OoO-Survivor falls asleep he can even see you anytime when you're close so it's basically an anytime wallhack.
@Kalldr watch their streams, don’t even look at the ranks just watch their gameplay. They run into dead zones, selfcare against sloppy butch legion, etc etc
@@BioBotProductions From another comment, Scott explained to someone else why he left it out. Apparently it's because the guy who said that has little to no power when it comes to balancing.
Object of Obsession is the most unfun perk in the game, it has the power to instantly destroy the fun out of any match, devs need to seriously change it or remove it (as it currently exists)
@@thegamefreakhjgghjl1928 no not DS. Survivors on average win less games than Killers, and so survivors need more buffs in order to counter this and balance things out. OoO, sure that should get needed but ds shouldn’t get nerfed, just don’t tunnel ☺️
@@LuneLeo so just don't tunnel eh? Did you ever just ds a killer after 50 seconds? That happens to me every game I even hook someone and I still tunnel I guess. It should stop working after you hook someone else do you understand you're relying on a crutch.
People who write about DS - there s a very easy way to balance it out. DS timer is 30 seconds but it pauses only when you re in a chase. So, if you are tunneled off the back you re somewhat safe. But if you re chasing the killer to be the annoying idiot with neverending DS then you practically dont do objectives and dont help out your team. Its ll be like Pig's hats in chase but it ll still end when slugged.
Yup. They say they do but when its recorded you see how bad they are at the game. That guy in the top right he got embarrased by asian players on camera with flashlights. After that, they nerfed flashlights. Its a complete joke some of the comments they make on the game and how many issues are in the game after 4 god damn years.....
"um so i went and took a look at the recent statistics on this thing and its not used very often " well yeah because you only need 1 object per team if your playing swf.
Of course OoO users don’t have a high escape rate. If the killer is smart he will tunnel the object user. The OoO user may die early but he likely would have damaged the killers chance at a good game by telling his team what the killer was doing. “Ignoring” the object user is the dumbest thing you can do.
Literally wrong. Object users WANNA be chased. I like it when killers commit full game to me, cuz I like 5 gen chases. Don't really care if he facecamps me to death or not, I've already won.
Um all he has to do is tell his location because the killer is tunneling. Which is what most killers do anyways with or without object. And why would the team care for the killers position if he's tunneling??
@@Slayer-rf3ho not my problem you find gens so exciting to do... i have 2.3k hours, game's boring if there ain't action... chases are fun, not getting chased is boring
Object against Freddy is also a lot of pain. Once the Object is asleep you can't mindgame them anymore because they see you all the time (Oblivious cancels the Terror Radius)
Only real way to fight back against OoO is to kill the survivor who has it immediately, preferably tunnel the bastard down so that at least you can make the game a little more fair... and even then, when you finally kill the guy you'll find out the survivors left you with only one or two gens left... fucking shit game.
What's interesting about this as well, is that it reveals what the devs think constitutes a victory as. If the average OoO user doesn't escape because they were tunnelled or got cocky or whatever the devs would class that as a mark against the perk and the player even if 3 other survivors escaped with only a couple hooks thanks to the communication of the OoO player. In terms of how well they did, survivors should be graded as a team not as individuals.
"rank 15 survivor mains" we all know it, don't deny, i get it, it might be a meme but all their changes to the game make so much more sense when you take that meme seriously lol, comments like this make sense, why they nerf pop but not DS, everything lines up when you take this meme as being forreal lol.
They shouldn’t nerf DS at all, it’s fine how it is. On average, survivors win less games than killers do, meaning that survivors need more buffs in order to balance things out. OoO needs to get changed but DS doesn’t need any change to it, just don’t tunnel ☺️
@@LuneLeo my man out here outing himself as a full-on survivor main lol, "survivors need more buffs" lol i've never seen a sentence that says "i only play soloq surv" more, and hey i get it, soloq is rough buddy, trust me ik, but you really gotta reel back the small brain thoughts when it comes to perks. DS is the strongest perk in the game, it buys the most time of any perk for your side by a mile, the devs leave it be but nerf killer perks that aren't even a 4th as effective as DS, ik you prob get tunneled often in whichever rank, but for me in reds, DS is almost never used to counter actual tunneling unless the killer is already losing, it's almost always used as 60 sec invincibility, and if you can't see how that's stronger than anything else in the game, then idk what to say, again killer perks that barely do anything like discordance got nerfed recently, but DS, the strongest and most used survivor perk, easily better than old ruin is still untouched.
@@thekamotodragon Outing myself as a full on survivor main??? I’m rank 2 killer dude. And yikes, someone’s hurt with the statistical truth.....I already told you the statistics, if it was the most broken perk in the game, then surely EVERY survivor would be running it but that just isn’t the case. Killers on average have a better win rate, so by that standing your logic is flawed. DS is good yes, but is it broken? No. If it was broken, survivors would win all the time running that perk but it just doesn’t happen, stop being butthurt and chase another survivor while the DS timer runs out 😂 and you say I have the small brain thought? 👀 someone doesn’t know killer strategies stg
Once on badham preschool I was running object for a tome against Freddy, and the loop with the fence window was open because he kicked the breakable wall. Since he had no terror radius while I was asleep I could just run that loop over and over with object and track him the whole time. He literally could not catch me, there’s nothing he could do. Eventually I just left and let him kill me out of pity. That shits broken. Thank god it’s getting a rework
The problem with the Fog Whispers is everyone else also thought they were going to be a place for the devs to work with about balance. Nope. Fog Whispers were only ever free advertising for the game.
I facepalmed when they missed the point of why people complained of it. I was like "SWF IN COMS MAKE IT A PROBLEM!! DON'T YOU PLAY AT HIGH RANKS?! oh wait... Why am I even asking? Of course they don't!"
This just emphasizes a point I made that I don’t think the devs are purposes survivor biased, but they don’t understand their own game! They are terribly bad if you ever watch them as survivor so they really think killers are OP and survivors need these perks to be strong to win. Not all business do the owners need to actually be good at the job but in This is a case where you really do need to be good at something to balance it properly
This right here shows that they probably aren't in touch with how players design their own meta of countering certain aspects of the game. OoO users die more often than not not because OoO is not good of a perk, but because killing the Object user is, sometimes, the only counter to it. And sometimes even that is too little too late.
Something that could "balance" the perk could be that instead of only highlighting the survivor using it, it would highlight everything within a radius (depending on what the devs want, they could do it around the killer pov or around the survivor). Could also send a small sound notification to the killer. Idk just an idea I'm tossing.
We can fix this: I've got a great idea. Everyone equip OoO and load into games in 4-man swfs. Get the survival rate high enough and they'll be forced to look at the perk.
Sadly this game is never gonna change, they will try to do it once everyone's gone to play another game similar to this, and honestly i can't wait for it to happen
@@artyom6167 there is this game called phasmophobia and it could potentially surpass dbd. Even though of how much I truly liked dbd. But, it's just sad the amount of potential dbd has and to be thrown away like that.
"Its not used very often" - cause you only need 1 person in your swf with it . . . that argumentation tells a lot my friend. I think i finally understand why the game is the way it is and i dont even want to complain anymore its already kinda sad and a pity. If you dont know/ understand your own game well then you need someone who does it. Noed isnt a bad perk just cause most killers who use it depip or dont win. Its just that cause good or smart killers dont need or rely on it, but its still a bad designed perk and i dont know your statistics but im pretty sure they say exactly the same. So maybe it would be good to rethink how much weight your statistics have and how to improve it.
Convince me that Scott isn’t ethan’s (game developer) rebellious son. That’s why we don’t see his last name. He hates that Scott has a YT channel and wants changes from his fathers game. And his father is taking all common sense away and doesn’t want his son to be right so he is like “well big data shows blah blah blah” or “clown TECHnically isn’t the worst killer he has HuGe potential” 100% look at the two guys their faces match which is why Scott isn’t wearing his glasses in their video so people wouldn’t recognize. But I have Scott, your rebellious regime is coming to a close!!
it feels so weird to me that they actually have the fog whisperer 'program' / thing and yet.. it seems like 'hey look, we listen and have a connection with the community!' (alright guys let's just do what WE know is right)
I'm pretty sure the players who run object regularly are the ones who can take advantage of it the most. It's like a win more for players who are already really good at the game. Medium players or bad players will get destroyed when they run it. That's probably why the devs don't think it's a problem. but when the really good players use it it makes them even better which becomes unbalanced.
Haven’t watched the whole video yet but the problem with OoO has to be that it would be almost solely used in SWF. This game just needs a voice chat and a comms system for survivors and to be balanced for that SWF mechanic as an assumption.
As time goes by it sometimes looks like the creators of the game doesn’t bother on playing the damn game, not only they have opinions of other who play it, not only they have hundreds of RU-vidrs that actually talk about their own game but they themselves could play and say “I can see how this can be affective with friend or in some circumstances, therefore this need work over and not consider it some good perk” Being a programmer it’s not easy, theire game is amazing but it’s really weird when the programmers have an opinion and the entire community other, wouldn’t they end jo noticing something is wrong?
I just played a game with legion of a 4 man all friends on pc I checked on the groaning store house and they “looped” me around the entire store house for 2 gens and in that time they had a million pallets everywhere jungle Gym after jungle gym and every time I went after the object they would get hit and would run straight to the store house and I had literally nothing I could do
Can we make a revolution for an FOV slider for killers? The devs like Survivors way too much and give the killers a few broken things in order keep us from complaining. And when we don't want to use these broken things to get cheap wins, we have to deal with a game that is mechanically against the killer.
If only 4.5 years of countless overwhelming examples of the developers not understanding their game didn’t exist, maybe I’d actually be surprised by what I just watch.
The issue about listening to people is that folks can have a motive, people can be biased as all h*ll, numbers usually aren’t. A survivor main can literally say killers are OP and try to get the Devs to nerf killers to the same speed as survivors and put in more “infinite’s” aswell as take out blood lust... A killer main can easily say remove all exhaustion, remove Decisive, make blood lust activate after 25 sec of chase. When it comes to human opinions and bias it can be a issue when “fixing a game” I may have my thoughts about the game but doesn’t mean I’ll be right in “making dbd fun” better than stats can. Humans make mistakes, humans can be biased.
What really triggers me, is the white tiny thingy that hangs in scotts hair (right side) and wiggles when hes moving - I feel the urge to take it awwwaaaaaayyyy aaaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhg
To be fair, we don't know all of the data that the developers can see. They only mention a couple of statistics about it (usage & survival rate). There may be other data they are seeing that justifies it. They could, for instance, also be using survival rate of team mates, win rate of killer, etc.
The way to fix object is just to give it tokens. Make it so you can only see the killer by consuming one of 3 tokens and it only lasts 5 seconds each. This will ad a skill requirement to the perk and lessen its objectively terrible nature.
Unpopular opinion: I don't get annoyed as Killer when someone has OoO. It allows me to get an insta chase if they stay on a gen or to know they aren't doing anything if they just run away while I chase someone else. Even when it is abused, I don't mind it that much.
Tbh i just use it to have a way to "counter" Freddy, he is insanely op and i face him 3 out of 5 of my games. I wouldn't mind them nerfing OoO if they nerf Freddy as well.
Hey Scott I don’t understand the argument that some people have about removing object bc wouldn’t the survivor side get mad that there getting rid of a survivor perk and want a killer perk to be removed as well? Great vid as always
It's so obvious to me, like sure, you can look at statistics and say "hey, camping killers only get 1 kill and the rest of the survivors escape, so it's not a good strategy" but people camp anyways, and it's completely unfun, and you should still make game design decisions that promotes not camping. It's the same with OoO, it's not about the perk being statistically not overpowered, it's about the perk being completely toxic and unfun to play against. On top of that you have the points made by scott, which demonstrate that the perk is actually really effective in a way you can't see in statistics
Is that “Ethan” guy purposefully ignoring the complaints about the perk? He seems like he’s being disingenuous with his reasoning. I really do believe he’s being dishonest there, and I don’t know why.
I see OoO the moment a round starts (because the OoO user is so cocky they just stare at you until you chase them) I leave. I don't talk to them, I just leave. They know what they're doing, I know what they're doing so I might as well get on with the next match and not waste my time. (Ghost face main btw)
@@PatrickRatman lmao it doesn't work against GF if the GF is cloaked btw (killer sees surv, but surv doesnt see the killer's aura)... they're not "staring at you until you chase them", they're looking in the direction of where Object is triggering and they're trying to figure out who of the stealth killers the killer is...
Yeah, I will get them first even if it means losing 2-3 gens. Then I will plow through BT, eat a DS, and tunnel them again losing the rest of the gens if needed.
If I see object, winning doesn´t matter anymore. I will go out of my way and do anything necessary to tunnel the object user mercilessly. Their death is the biggest victory for me, more important than stopping the rest from escaping. It´s called Object of Tunneling for a reason.
At least after that Cote himself acknowledged that it's not always about efficiency, but also fun-factor (is it fun to play against) is important to the point, where it should at least be looked on. Personally, I think that it doesn't need neither nerf, nor buff. It needs a full overhaul rework.
People shit on Cote a lot but I find him to actually be one of the more sensible devs. Maybe misguided but he definitely just wants everyone to have fun.
Côté's comment this dev stream where amazing, sure the guys isnt perfect but they really showed he understood the community, at least better than Ethan did by just looking at stats
@@SavageSaskatch Yeah it really pissed me off when he brought the stats in "looking at are stats we find Object to be fine since the majority of Object users don't survive the trail" ummm... THEY DONT SURVIVE THE TRAIL FOR A REASON!!!!!! KILLERS WANT OBJECT USERS DEAD
@@deceptiveauto it's because of some of the stuff he stated in the past caused a lot of up roar from the community. Somethings can't be forgotten but I'm sure Cote is used to it anyways
@@joshualighttime604 yes, or maybe they should listen to people with literal thousands of hours playing both sides and who, MOST LIKELY, understand the game better
@@joshualighttime604 I mean, the fact that he has such a potent anti chase power puts enough pressure on survivors. Sure he has no map pressure but neither does Pyramid Head, Slinger, Huntress etc and you don't call them bad killers for that. Clown maybe a bit weak but he is far, faaaaar away from the worst.
@@joshualighttime604 as for the bottles yeah it's kinda gay how long they take. I reload them usually when survivors are stuck on a loop or when I hook or down them.
@@bulbaseth3412 same here but everytime I play Steve, I always go Steveeeeeee! Gumminess bears! Because from watching cloudy with a chance of meatballs movie.
Not until you mention the idea of revealing SWF in lobby. THEN, they say they won't do that because killers will just drop the lobby. SWF with comms doesn't exist until you mention a way to avoid it.
@@hungrycrackpot There is no way as of today to be sure its SWF with comms if their profiles are hidden. And most SWF profiles are hidden. So, there s no way to know in advance if thats SWF or a group of very good survivors. "Just drop a lobby" - Thank you very much, i ll sure drop a lobby to wait for about 30 minutes to find a lobby with swf again cause killer lobby searches time is busted. But sure i ll drop a lobby and wait for about a generation to get a good game.
@@hungrycrackpot which is crazy that they understand swf’s are so strong, killers will drop lobbies to not play against them, and still not think there’s an issue as to why they would.
@Estrogen Fury yeah, that’s not fun. Object *can* be countered, it’s just not FUN. It ruins the game to go against and is incredibly frustrating and makes me want to instantly DC.
