The strange thing is they dug deep into the culture for the armor but denied human sacrifice even though the sacrifice is reflected in some of the armor
I don't know if you've noticed in recent years, but games like this never make potential minority cultures the bad guys because the devs ignore the parts of history they don't like. Look at the Villians of this season, and how they "handled" the Medjay skin color controversey. It's plain as day why they don't mention this about the Aztec hero. 🤷
Bro, their sacrifices were made in a temple, not in the middle of the battlefield. I really don't see why they should put a sacrifice execution. Even more so, that thing of cutting the heart off, that's not a thing a soldier was supposed to know how to do, but rather the priests
What the devs need to understand is that every single hero's culture has done some extremely terrible things in history and honestly that adds to their character. Not every hero has to be morally incorrect but to completly over shadow important parts of culture for the sake of "heroes being heroes" is dumb.
It's no surprise tbh since Ubisoft are incapable of creating genuine conflicts in the game. The funny part is they don't have to look hard for conflicts to base new seasons off of, they just *choose* not to care enough about real history outside of the parts that make them happy about their world views.
Ocelotl being Shaman's brother and coming to bring her back home but gets stuck in the never ending war of Heathmoor is a better lore than what they came up with
@@mal1362honestly had no idea, but yeah That does make a lot more sense. Probably should have reworked the B point a bit more tho, since that gate makes little sense now
I wish they would start adding new maps with these heroes. Haven’t had a new breach map in years. Would be cool to see Egypt or fight near the Aztec cities.
I do content and consulting on Mesoamerican history/archeology: I feel pretty mixed about his design/theming. I don't know a ton about For Honor so there may be customization or lore stuff i'm unaware of that might explain some of their choices; but overall, while I think some stuff comes close to being authentic and there's some cool details, I think a lot also falls victim to the pretty typical pop culture trope of trying to make Mesoamerica seem primitive/unrefined, and I think it would have benefitted from using more actual Aztec motifs/designs in a way that fits their actual symbolism better, so even if artistic liberties are taken, it would still make sense within the context of Aztec iconography. I go into more detail below: Just to provide some basic context: Mesoamerica is the cultural region that encompasses the bottom half or so of Mexico, all of Guatemala and Belize, and bits of other Central American countries further south. A lot of people only know about the Aztec and Maya, and there's this perception that civilization was only first developing before Europeans arrived. But in reality, there had already been dozens of other major civilizations (the Olmec, Zapotec, Teotihuacan, Mixtec, Otomi, Totonac, Purepecha, etc) with cities and writing going back 2500-3000 years before Spanish contact. Teotihuacan, for example, was a major city in same area as the Aztec, and had 100,000+ denizens, a massive ~20 sqkm (the same area as Rome's walls) urban grid of temples, roads, water channels, and palaces which had plumbing, painted frescos, large courtyards etc in which nearly all of the city's denizens lived in... and this was 1000 years BEFORE the Aztec! The Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan was twice as populated (around the same as Paris and Constantinople at the time), and was built in a lake out of artificial islands crossed with venice like canals, with causeway and aqueducts connecting it to other cities, and had gardens, aviaries, markets with tens of thousands of daily visitors, etc. So, much like how Mesoamerican cities were were proper urban centers with richly painted buildings, markets, aqueducts etc and not just a few grey buildings in a jungle (a lot of mesoamerica, including the Aztec area, wasn't even jungle!), you also didn't have people, much less soldiers, running around half naked in just pelts and crude stone/bone/feather ornaments. To stick to the Aztec and what their most common military equipment was: the most basic form of armor was a vest or tunic (ichcahuipilli), which was essentially akin to Gambeson armor in eurasia. Over this, elite soldiers would wear tlahuiztli (full suits) or ehuatl (tunics with skirts), which were made from thick cloth, and covered in a mosaic of tens of thousands of feathers (often iridescent/metallic), which were arranged by color to make designs (such as jaguar spots) which indicated rank division, etc. Shields and helmets, made of wood or bamboo, also were covered in feather mosaic, and officers also had elaborate back mounted banners similar to Japanese Sashimono flags. In non martial contexts, men wore cloaks/mantles, tilmatli; and women wore baggy blouses, huipil, which also had animal, floral, geometric, mythological etc patterns and designs, with gold, turquiose, jade, etc necklaces, braclets/bands, earrings, labrets and meticulously arranged feather plumes/tassels/"bouquets" (which could also be worn with ehuatl). Priests wore general dress, or elaborate and esoteric ceremonial garments and devices which looked quite distinctive compared to everything else and is hard to describe in text. For visual examples, look up art by Kamazotz/Zotzcomic/Daniel Parada, Rafael Mena, Angus Mcbride, Mossacannibalis, and OHS688 for clothing/armor; and Scott and Stuart Gentling for architecture. The BigRedHair Aztec Empire comic and Nosuku-K's art is good for both. How does Ocelotl stack up to this? The Jaguar outfit and the Eagle alternate come close to being pretty reasonable dark-fantasy takes on actual Aztec military gear, at least at a glance. They seem to have full body Tlahuiztli suits just with battle damage, and while the heavy hip cloths wouldn't be worn over Tlahuiztli, nor would a lot of jewelry, I think both are acceptable deviations. But on closer inspection, their warsuits aren't actual complete garments: the Jaguar design is just a roughly skinned animal pelt tied to the front of the torso and limbs with straps in the back (Jaguar fur was used on some less prestigious tlahuiztli and on certain items of clothing, to stitched to an actual piece of clot: it's not just a pelt you put on like you're Conan the barbarian), with the underside of the arms and legs exposed. The Eagle outfit is the same (which is even wierder, since it has to be a feather mosaic garment, but they just made it not cover things?) The Snake outfit is totally fictional, I think it coulda worked had it, again, been actual feather mosaic, and if it had a proper helmet like the Eagle one ones: That headgear it currently has is just primitive looking nonsense and that's also true of almost all the ornamentation on the "Warrior priest"/ceremonial outfits (There were Aztec Warrior Priests, but they just wore some specific Tlahuiztli designs): those outfits are straight up tribal stereotypes, there are even tiki faces, which isn't even the right continent. I guess their cloaks are presumably tilmatli, but the patterns on them (as well as pieces of cloth elsewhere on both designs) don't use anything like actual Aztec patterns. I will say the mosaic covered skulls some of the outfits have at the the hip are real things! They weren't really "worn" historically, they were ritual offerings (same with masks, but the masks in game don't even look like real ones) but it's a fine trinket to include. I think just making the Jaguar, Eagle, and Serpent outfits have the warsuits cover all the limbs and torso (hell, you can still have the torso's covering be more of a diagonal sash: just show ichcahuipilli beneath instead of bare skin), and for the Jaguar and Serpent to have proper helmets, would do a lot, as would giving them more properly Aztec jewelry: Almost all of what's currently used looks unrefined and hapazardly put together, something the artists actually mention as intentional in the stream, claiming they didn't have heavily worked/polished gemstones or intricate metal jewelry or fine clothes, even though historically the Aztec had things like jointed, articulated metal serpent trinkets, finely sculptued and engraved jade jewlery, turquiose mosaic diadems other ornaments, and feather mosaics inherently required individually placing tens of thousands of feathers (seriously look up the surviving "feather paintings" of catholic religious scenes made by Aztec artists during the colonial period, it's mind blowing). Smarter use of specific motifs would be help too: Have the actual Mesoamerican step fret instead of grecean style meanders, use actual Aztec geometric and glyphic designs instead of the modern "Aztec print" geometric designs. Instead of the random made up pendants and trinkets they have, give the Jaguar an Anahuatl and have smoking mirror and eye-star eye glyph ornaments to evoke Tezcatlipoca (who is tied to jaguars and the night sky, and jaguar spots were likened to stars and eyes); give solar ray/disc designs to the eagle to evoke Huitzilopochtli (tied to eagles and hummingbirds); and then the wind jewel and step frets to the serpent to evoke Quetzalcoatl (tied to snakes, with the spiral cross section of conches used for wind jewels tying into the spiral nature of the step fret). The Ceremonial "Warrior priest" outfits I think are harder to fix. I think they should have used Ehuatl as a base, which would still leave exposed arms and legs for a bunch of jewelry and trinkets like the current ones. Also, while I do get For Honor has a dark grungy setting, having the designs be less monochrome and making the color pop more would be nice: mesoamerican fashion was downright garish. I don't wanna be entirely negative: Again, I think the jaguar and eagle outfit is close to being a good balance of fantasy and authentic, it just needs tiny tweaks. I also really dig that they used Tepoztopilli alongside the more famous Macuahuitl, and a lot of the alternate skins for those weapons do a better job looking refined and well made and colorful (though I woulda liked more visual cues taken from actual Mesoamerican engraved, precious stone studded weapons and objects; and Tepoztopilli weren't thrown so an atlatl for that skill/feat would be better, but hey, beggers can't be choosers.). I think that using the complimentary dualism of life and death being a big thing in Aztec philosophy to influence the feat skill is a neat idea (though death whistles, are sadly a fake tourist thing, sorta). On that note, since you brought it up in the video: Yeah, I think there shoulda been a sacrifice finisher, it'd fit. I'm not sure i'm convinced though they avoided it to be "PC". As my comment should illustrate, well, they didn't seem to mind making a lot of the outfits look primitive and savage, and that's not even how their clothing or armor was vs sacrifice being an actual historical practice (though one that gets overemphasized and misunderstood: It happened, and at significant scales, but it's not like their entire society revolved around it, nor was it just done for the sake of violence, it tied into pretty fleshed out phislophical concepts which can be seen in poetry and the like). I wouldn't put it past some people to skirt around sacrifice to avoid offending, but then being so ignorant they don't realize that their idea of aztec clothing and art is itself a giant sterotype, but the developers here clearly DID do research (they showed the Codex Mendoza, the British Museum mosaics, etc on stream), though it does make some of their choices even more baffling as a result.e stuff I like,
Welcome to For Honor. Ubisoft in general and the For Honor team in particular just butcher historical representations of all of the cultures represented. They don't let anyone be the aggressors that aren't European. The Vikings are also treated as unsophisticated barbarians that barely wear armor. (Still waiting for Raider to get a proper mail hauberk.) The Samurai started out with wood armor. All European swords are basically baseball bats that sometimes rarely stab. Studded leather armor everywhere, but where are the brigandines and coats of plates? As for the PC thing, yeah they are totally doing it that way. Every character can have coal black skin. Vikings to Samurai, all of them can have the full range of skin tones. The only character that doesn't is Medjay. The "African" character only gets darker skin tones. Why? Probably because a racist would make a pasty Egyptian. Yes it's true that an Egyptian character would likely have the most diverse skin tones. I guess Ubisoft thinks so lowly of black people that they assume that black people can't handle white people making an "African" character white. What makes it even funnier is that they are now actively removing representation from their game. And it's not even representation of white people but light skinned Africans. Look up Dove's real virtual beauty thing and the individual Coco's skin tone is not available for Medjay. We'll see if Ocelotl will have the full range of skin tones. I doubt it though. Thanks for the informative post by the way.
@@jjkrayenhagennaw, I'd say it's not pc, it's just restrictions on the writing team to fit the obvious sales pitch they were given of "write us a story about a badass jungle Rambo hero who along with an entire army of jungle random heroes ends up in Heathmore. Also make the villains some horkos conquistador to keep with the vibe." The pitch is pretty obvious and with it in mind I don't really see how they could have gotten anything more through to actual release, regardless of what the writers/historians wanted. Like I over explained it here but it's not some big ideological thing, it's literally just people doing there day to day job to make a profitable, safe, character to keep money coming in.
@@jjkrayenhagen Every time I see a black Norse Viking or a Scottish Highlander or a Shaman in a match I just think how stupid it is and if the roles were reversed the people doing it would be upset. Like imagine if they added a Zulu warrior and you could make them white the same people that make the Vikings and Knights black would throw a fit and call it racist.
@@samfish2550 When I see a non European as the aggressor, I'll say they aren't doing it for PC reasons. The fact that they made Ocelotl and the Aztecs super sunshine happy time people in one with nature that never did anything bad speaks volumes. I get that making the knight character look like a conquistodor to go along with the Aztec character makes sense. But they didn't have to make the knight character all bad and the Aztec all good. There is room for complexity and nuance. They could even have had the knight character be the aggressor and still have the Aztecs be brutal and not a good culture. That's the thing about history and reality that is so overlooked. Both sides can fight for good reasons. Or both sides could fight for evil reasons. Or any mixture there of. But it seems the dev team only understand Good vs Bad and they won't have anyone but Europeans be the bad guys.
i feel like his kit doesn’t have enough bleed, considering how the macuahuitl and the tepoztopilli have obsidian blades specifically designed to cut and bleed instead of killing you
@@Chloe_prices_spliff Yeah just the 4th. I would've at least liked to see a bleed parry riposte, if not bleed on the moves like the finisher bash and prowler pin attack.
i think his 4th feat is fine because old shinobi could do it multiple times every fight and ocelotl can only do it once every couple minutes. also his 4th, even though its strong, its single target. fire flask does more damage and to everyone in its radius
I have a feeling they'll do that with Valkyrie's hero skin...probably. Also, it is very ironic that Deadliest Warrior, which is pretty historically inaccurate, did the Aztecs better than For Honor. At least they acknowledge the sacrifices.
Hey, thank you for talking about a part of the content no other ytuber talked. Everyone focused on the moveset, while you talked about everything and gave great insight about the lore... I really apreciate it!
Victimizing the Aztecs is a tactic I’ve seen used in attacks against colonization throughout history which is painted to be an inherently “white man” thing because the most recent colonization in human history was that of the new world being the Americas which involved the enslavement of another race. They might have tried to avoid human sacrifice all together because the idea of the colonizers in this scenario to be the least morally deplorable would leave a bad taste in the mouths of critics or the loudest minority that would denounce Ubisoft’s approach to the narrative. It is certainly easier to have the narrative play out the way they did if that’s what they were afraid of because this direction would have the least amount of backlash especially after putting out their disclaimer that they don’t aim at historical accuracy. In conclusion, I smell political correctness slinking it’s way into my video games again.
My own versión: Bella and her conquistadores arive at the island and start pillaging everything, however, once they start venturing deeper into the jingle, some of then start disapearing and hearing the death whistles and decide to leave whith what they got, onley to realize the Aztecs followed them back home and start butchering everyone ay the shard, making sacrificas and all that. This would deal a blow to horkos, giving an oportunity for chimera to atack
I appreciate that you don't have to be spoon fed the lore too be a happy camper. And admire that you can come up with what else may had of happened with so little that we know. Take notes raven knight. It's not that hard to use your imagination.
@DemonXbountyX You clearly didn't listen to my video, where I made many suggestions and offered several ideas on the way the lore could go. Many of which would fill in plot holes and questions that I raised. On top of that, you're not even brave enough to comment directly to the video itself, but instead reply only to other peoples comments. Yes, using your imagination is great, but when it comes to lore, sometimes you need some things made clear. But you'd know that if you knew anything about story telling. Some things DO have to be explained.
@robertsteiner4696 have you know I did watch the video. This isn't the first time raven responded to me so he should know for a fact how I feel about his idea of how the lore should go. If you'd like a little more context I'm refuring to how flabbergasted he is that ocelotl surrendered himself. But what's funny is that the way he thought the lore shoulda went he still has ocelotl surrender. Im not sure if you would've done that from the start to be fair. But they've had him locked in a cage thus far. But Raven knight isn't part of the narrative team and is just butthurt that the lore didn't include sacrifice. Also filling in these pot holes nobody knows what happened over there the conquistadors lied about what happened. And all we know is that ocelotl wasn't captured but surrendered himself for his people. As for you, you must feel really special backing up Your beloved r/forhonorrants RU-vidr with shitty mic quality.
They need to stop bringing other warriors to Heathmore and start going to them because we need new maps that aren't reskins. Imagine a map in Egypt or in Arabia or in the jungles of Mexico.
The problem with shinobi vs ocelotl is shinobi had a ranged attack that he could spam ocelotl can't spam the ranged attack and there's probably a decently long cooldown
But also big confirmed damage at the start. It's basically saying (medjays 4th feat, the projectile literally nobody likes, let's do that again but make it able to ledge you from across the zone in a way that is literally impossible to counter with positioning." Also could be mean in ganks, I think it would have been fine if it was like his stance heavy by pulling them to you instead of you jumping to them, and maybe it will be fine as is, but this will make first week very annoying against him.
@@thediamondcutter9185 ........ Last I checked feats ignore hit stun damage reduction. So while we'll have to wait and see if it affects the pull that is still one of the weakest arguments you could make. There are a LOT of ways to confirm projectiles.
The ocelotl design is amazing but I agree with you on the lore If removing a lot of a character or people's culture then they are not being true to them
I’m with you 100% as a Mexican who both loves and learns his native aztec culture I know it’s stained but that also doesn’t automatically make them bad or vice versa I would love to see that moral grey area and gives a more menacing air to them instead of the sad poor me victim
The funny part is they have Eagle Warrior and Priest outfits, so they absolutely know and were told about it from the historian they had on board, they just refused to acknowledge the history behind it because they needed another victim for the big bad Horkos boogeyman that the writers are incapable of letting go of.
Oh yes, that annoyed me. But seeing as it was an off handed remark...I had more important things to consider for this video. XD In the actual warriors den, I did hear him say it and go 'you watch it buddy...' Hahaha.
I am very super-excited about the Ocelotl/Jaguar Warrior. However, I keep feeling like something appears to be missing from his armor/outfit. Weren't Aztec warriors known for wearing a type of armor made of cotton? I recall constantly reading about and/or seeing in history documentaries Aztec warriors wearing armor that was made from tightly packed unspun cotton, was about two fingers thick, and they soaked it in saltwater brine to harden it and make it arrow-proof. It was called the Ichcahuipilli, and the Ocelotl seems to be missing that piece of gear. Any thoughts on this, Raven?
Raven my idea for the story would be to have a trade city settled by the knights in their exodos from Europe from the cataclysm called the Duchy of white sands where vela and her ships dock and vella was sent by Astria herself to recruit the jaguar Warriors to the horkos banner with translators provided by the city in which they are almost successful but a chimera spy makes sure the meeting goes south by killing their leader thus starting a battle in which horkos loses and retreats back to the city. With no plan she writes to astria for more support. The reply comes a few months later and the response was not good, Astria is livid and does not want another ravier incident and tells her if she does not deal with them here she will kill her personally. With outside help gone she looks to the duchy for aid but realized the city cannot provide the forces she needed to take on the Aztecs though they were well trained, they are far too small in number to make a difference. So she looked to the local tribes for help. And found that they were very enthusiastic about fighting the Aztecs, for they long suffered under their brutality. Though the road to Tenochtitlan was long and arduous Vela and her allies finally made it after five months of ambushes and brutal jungle fighting they stormed the Aztecs great city and raised it to the Ground shattering the remaining Aztec forces into the jungle. Vela and her Warriors were seen as heroes by the city of white sands and the surrounding tribes and thus were showered with gifts of gold, fruits, and other things as thanks for destroying their great enemy. Vela and Her men carry as much as they could back to their ships and sailed back to heathmoor in triumph. Astria praised villa’s skills and later threw a great party in honor of her triumph in the New World. Unbeknownst to them the Jaguar warriors thought shattered came up with a plan to raid heathmoor Shores using their knowledge as well as kidnapped sailors and ships they sail to heathmoor to make heathmoor bleed through sacrifice.
My only theory for the sparing of him is because maybe the warmonger was pulling a it will bring a new culture to the land of Heath more leading to more war which apollyon did. Or uhhh maybe the warmonger saw a wolf in the making and wanted to bring him to the arena and see his strength... Idk something along those lines but astrea isn't exactly like apollyon but maybe astrea is beginning to understand more of apollyons motive but yet again idk
one thing they could have done with his tier 4 feat instead would be similar to the feat Scout, but instead of a de-buff, the enemy gets revealed for a whole minute, but if the Ozelotl gets killed within that 1 minute, he goes into his ghost form, and therefrom can use his pounce stance to jump on an oponent, and say it does 50 dmg, if he gets that complete pounce, he gets and instant revive with full health. but if he doesnt die, or gets interrupted, the effect only revealed for 1 minute. would give his stance some more use, and we would really get the fear of the Death whiste scream.
I love all that you said about how the lore could have gone better for this character. I got one, you know how the great cataclysm basically devastated all the factions and left them fighting for resources? What if the Jaguars warriors homeland was left barren and destroyed and his people were barely hanging on and the presence of conquistador villa made him think" hmm, these stranger's look like they come from a rich and healthy land" and makes up a plan to give himself up so his Aztec buddies follow them to a new land so they can obtain resources and people for human sacrifices so their gods can bless their lands and people.
I don't support Raven knights L take on the lore but I appreciate and admire that you can come up with your own narrative given what little lore we got from the devs. But it's not that hard to use your imagination a little and not have to be spoon fed lore to be a happy camper. I would like to say though that the aztecs weren't crazy about sacrificing people.
@@DemonXbountyX true but knights weren't known for the crusades and committing genocide but that's what's popular about them against the ottoman but we had that in the form of ravier but not all knights did it But guessing raven is disappointed that the ocelotl doesn't have human sacrifices or something similar because that's what their known for despite only priests do the sacrificing Its all about generalization in the end
@@DakaloMaedza-z4m In the stream raven knight was upset about how he didn't have a sacrifice execution. He said in a comment replying to me that he thought it would be cool and that he would've done a review on it and added it's historical background (something along the lines of that) and exactly only the priest held these rituals. and while sure it'd be cool I just feel like especially after this video raven knight is pushing far too hard for sacrificing and is upset that the devs didn't involve that lore or gameplay wise.
@@DakaloMaedza-z4m the devs just wanted a way to introduce the character to us give us a little bit of back ground a little bit of narrative. It's clear raven knight isn't fond of that. He take this Aztec hero so seriously. But doesn't stop to think that this is a fictional game. Why can't we all just agree to disagree that it's a hero BASED on the Aztec. Because the Aztec were never actually in heathmoor. Then again Egypt exist in this universe so it's hard to make that argument but then again this is for honor, mythical powers, dragons, curses, knights and samurai in the same era????? (To be clear knights and samurai existed for a very short amount of time in the same era but we have no evidence of them coming across eachother.) medjay is controversial because of his skin color, but we don't talk about that. Hito uses a axe that isn't japanese. Shaolin can teleport and kyoshin can summon the power of demon's or something.
@@DemonXbountyX well he did say he'd make a story on his ocelotl character when he's released and it would be better then what ubisoft came with we can only wait for what his version of an Aztec would be
The camera work on those exes! They really add to the hard-hitting club and the Ocelotl's strength, I can say for certain I am so going to buy him, and not regret it like Pirate and Medjay.
when it comes to the lore I couldn't help but notice the major strategical flaws both sides made. Horkos * When invading. Leave nothing to chance yet they did by assuming the Aztec forces were wiped out so easily on there home turf. * They believed their enemy of all people that 1. His surrender was legitimate and had no other intentions 2. They allowed him to convince them there were no more fighters left *They made no attempts to cover their path back home in the off chance they were being followed to reveal their main location Aztecs * They chose not to commit their full might against their enemy when they could of easily out numbered the Horkos forces and prevented this whole problem * Even after the first loss they made no attempts to ambush or anything despite having a big portion of their army left. Allowing Horkos to leave with a lot of their wealth * They opted to sail to where Horkos is most fortified and numerous, fighting them at their strongest to get revenge which would result in A LOT more causalities when again attacking the invading forces in their home turf would of yielded much more favourable results
A better story would have been this: horkos ransacked the Aztec, stealing their gold and as hubris, the conqesators melted the gold and dawn their armor with it both to mock the Aztec and appear as gods to give the idea they were unbeatable. Unknown to horkos, the gold was cursed, spilling the blood of the Aztec civilians awakened the curse summing the warrior spirit of fallen warriors to exact revenge on horkos following them back to Heathmor spilling horkos blood until the gold is returned and cleansed .
Was in your stream and about what that "historian" said guess it shows us they made their intentions plain and its not that they are bad and don't know what their doing, they know exactly what their doing and they do not intend to stop and tells me the lore won't get better from here onward but I could be wrong
While I'm sure it doesn't matter when I watched your stream I admit the over passionate reactions where worrying but after watching this it is glad to see you calmer and more thought out. I admit the lore is kinda ass when it comes to why he is here, it's so odd and honestly if Horkos is this dumb, I hope that cockiness and idiocy from their leadership is their downfall. I also still have hope that they have not abandoned the sacrifice aspect, I want to believe they are simply not mentioning it yet because the Aztecs have not fully settled yet and are not sacrificing yet as to focus on the fight in Heathmoor and eventually we will see it. But lore orders will tell and so will season's, overall he's a cool af hero and hope he will be an amazing addition to FH.
Yes I apologize for my raw emotions during the stream. Hahaha. Quite often I have to step back and think before making a final conclusion. That's part of the reason I do these follow up summary videos. Because I've had time to think and reevaluate.
I think the fourth feat is fine as Goki used to have a insta kill move when on low health. It was removed but made a fourth feat for hito. Same thing for shinobi and ocelotl.
Call me morbid, but I was kind of hoping for the Aztec heart sacrifice as an execution. We even have the obsidian dagger on their outfits. A bit of a missed opportunity, but here's to hoping they add it in the future as a Hero Fest execution?
Pre re-work shinobi Had many issues but being able to pull people to you was so fun for me atleast and it didn’t do a-lot of damage and it didn’t cause bleed
I love how this guy defends our Mexican roots, but brother I tell you something in the Spanish conquest if there was war but before that we were friends and without his conquest Mexico for example would not be what it is today and the same represents everything you say and what they said
History is a cruel mistress. It's not always pretty, but without it our present could not be. That is why I stand by historical truth, not revisionism and erasure.
I hope they pull a warmonger and give parts of his moveset bleed, while not integral to his kit it just seems bizarre considering the weapons. I do think he is still very cool, and the tier 4 is less aggregious bwcause it is a tier 4. Shinibi could do it at any point. I do think feats as a whole need a testing ground to alter their functionality or damage, particularly with fire flask. If feats did less damage but were usable more often that'd be cool imo.
Honestly in terms of the Lore of why Ocelotl surrendered yeah it's not great. From a tactical standpoint that was a big gamble. Though if they mentioned Horkos tried to confirm Ocelotl was the last and didn't find anyone that could have made up for it in a way. As a whole again the plan Ocelotl and the Aztecs had tactically not really the best. But in a weird way it works as a unique way for a fear tactic especially if Horkos couldn't find the rest of the Aztecs after Ocelotl surrendered. Cuz if you face an enemy and easily beat them, bring a prisoner and spoils home just to suddenly get ambushed and butchered on your own victory party that sends a message about your enemy. That they're crafty, stealthy, and bloodthirsty. Plus it would make one think "If they could sneak up on us that easily in our home base... What could they have done to us in that Jungle?" Also yeah they should have included at least something on human sacrifices. The Aztecs were a relatively brutal people and they should have let them own that brutality lore wise.
The Aztecs would sacrifice captured enemy warriors, it's how they kept the surrounding nations in check. They could've literally talked about how only those who were fighting the hardest were disappearing and then there's the reveal that Vela discovers that there is an entire army of Ocelotl warriors in Heathmore sacrificing soldiers and wreaking havoc across the land.
I think the whole concept of the Ocelotl allowing himself to be taken so his people can live is inspired by how the last Aztec emperor (I forgot his name) let himself get captured and endured three days of torture so his people would have time to escape.
great video as always bringing a more critical look into the hero and mechanic than just hyping them, I do however think that the choice for skirting around the topic of human sacrifice is less about being PC and more about the limitation of lore and character fantasy. taking from your point about the lore, you're absolutely correct that they reached out hard on this one and made it really un-sensical, and I think they realized that they are already boiling down the character to basic Aztec stereotypes and they probably wouldn't be able to write human sacrifice into the lore they already came up with without it just being a hand-waved "oh btw they do this" and that would just make everyone unhappy because it would've been like just ticking another Aztec thing off with no pay off or actual significance in lore and game. but for me, the main reason they didn't write it into the character is because (I don't know the term for this in English) the character fantasy/ player immersion. Basically what makes people play a character in any hero game is its gameplay/ design/ how much they can roleplay into the character and like its main idea, and human sacrifice holds a very uncomfortable place here. you see, we have edgy characters in for honor, but they are what I call "fun edgy evil" like Jorm being in an apocalypse giant snake cult, These are fun things to hook you in edgy roleplay. I think the lore team realized that people who care about roleplay to pick a character would probably find it as "uncomfortable realistic evil" and not just edgy. Jorm you can roleplay the child pushed away from the village coming back to bring the apocalypse, Ocelotl is there for slaves... hard to really immerse yourself in a character when that's their goal.
I saw Slanderous’s (pretty bad) video on his thoughts on the Ocelotl! He mentioned that the prowler stance was a bad game mechanic because it felt boring and was lacklustre because you can only do one thing while in it. Did he forget that Valkyrie has a similar stance and can only do one thing in this stance, ie her charge bash? And unlike Ocelotl, she can’t move in her stance, so why is it a problem when Jaguar does it? I feel like Slanderous really needs to do better with his arguments, especially if he is going to use the buzzword/ phrase of “Ubisoft is brainwashing its audience” mentality.
Valk's and Ocelotl's stances aren't really comparable, they serve completely different purposes, valk's is a part of a mixup and it's usable in duel scenarios rather than just ganks like ocelotl
@@bishopcoleman5317 Fine then, what about JJ’s stance and Nobushi? At least the Ocelotl’s stance allows for mixup following. That’s one of the things about Ocelotl is that his attacks are chained but they continue from any type of attack so long as it is one type after the other. So he’s not as bland as Slanderous is making him out to be and I still stand by that Slanderous’s video is bad.
Love the aesthetic, but I wish they would have went for a design more focused on the man rather than the beast. Sacrifices, blood, executions. I love the side but it's sad that we'll never have a murder priest now
I agree with you. We need to know the good, the bad, and the ugly of history if we don't wish to repeat it. The Aztecs waged war to acquire captives for human sacrifice and demanded sacrificial victims as tribute from the tribes they subjugated. As bad as the Conquistadors were, they were viewed as the lesser of two evils by the natives they encountered, many of whom fought alongside them.
As far as the feats are concerned. The first & second tier feats “won’t” activate if you execute him. So, they work hand & hand. It seems they decided to do the opposite to Hitokiri who’s feats which are execution focused. As far as storyline; I believe they went into this direction to slowly turn the Aztec to bad guys as in the “hero” was able to persuade Horkos to end their assault, so they can invade a new land for more bodies. Ocelotl even says something along the lines of getting blood for his people which could possibly mean taking Horkos members back to sacrifice & that’s when we get the “new hero skin” who acts ask a scout for them & then the new Viking hero comes to end the nonsense.
While I agree with the points you made about the lore, I can’t help myself but pose a question. Regardless of this foolish tactical decision from the Aztecs, would it be fair to assume that Vela lied in her speech to prop herself up to Astrea? To make that gift of a neck for her sword more valuable? Because this Aztec leader gave himself up as a prisoner after the raid and slaughter of his people, I feel like the Conquistadors would’ve known that he wasn’t the last of his people. Which would then make their epic journey fraudulent, and potentially entering the idea that Horkos has corruption within their ranks. That’s my question/theory that I ended up with when I heard the lore today. Wonderful work as always Raven.
I will say i think 4th feat is reasons being we have things like fire flask insta kill and we have medjay throwing axes off screen but also when they review feats that have the cool down on max speed but even then it took forever for him to use it again
Now don’t get me wrong the idea of the forth feat is a bit much, but at the same time I can understand, it’s a feat and an active one at that, which I can assume its gonna have a decently long cooldown for what at offers, if I had to assume, it’s cooldown would be longer than any other projectile based feat
Ight so like, I can see why people call the new feat busted, and to an extent I agree. On surface level are a lot of upsides but when you take a second glance at it, there's are just as many downsides to the feat. For one, in most cases you aren't gonna be immediately useful in a fight because more than likely if you try to engage in most fights you'll die which means you'll have to wait for your full health back, which leads into my second point. The longer you wait the more time you'll be off the field, so you'll be spending more time dead, and less time being useful to the team. Thirdly, if the enemy team knows your playing Ocelotl and is aware that you're using his first feat, they're gonna make SURE to look out for you. A.K.A., guarding the points. If anything the introduction of this character is gonna INCREASE the amount of zone boosting in game. Lastly, you can't even spawn near enemies, meaning you can't pick off stragglers or people on low health. Sure, maybe you can spawn on a vacant point to cut them off from healing but remember, unless you were waiting for awhile you're gonna be low health too, especially if you decided to immediately intercept them instead of waiting on your healing, meaning that the odds won't necessarily be in your favor. All in all its gonna be a strong feat no doubt, but it'll definitely come with its negatives. My main question is how this is gonna work with Shaolin's QI trap. Will he be able to detect the Ocelotl in this stage or nah? I guess we'll wait and see 'till then.
I still think it's impressive that I exactly guesed what was gona happen, but I do get your point and agree with your opion. There is only one thing that would make the tactical desision the jaguer made logical. They followed them back for the same reason horkos went to there turf. Rescourses! They never specifikly said human sacrifise wasn't on the menu as far as I'm aware, sow it would make sense to follow them back to start capturing slaves. If they have the balles to turn in that direction reguerding the story then I think this was a good desision. If they don't then I will fully agree with you that this was a sh*t choose to make.
I initially didn't like the T4 Spear especially bc it seems like the rope comes out of nowhere, ᵇᵘᵗ I was watching Havok's impressions on it, and his first reaction is "The Afeera's T1 and T3 guarantee a heavy and do a lot of damage combined and the fire flask EXISTS which is almost a guaranteed multi-kill" and although I think they could've maybe had him throw his spear for a pin similar to the Centurion, it isn't the strongest Feat lineup in the game🤷♂ not to mention the Hitokiri's T4
My problem is that the heroes execution stats aren’t good, no quick kill time ones that are unique which sucks. Plus the default feats look pretty OP. But apart from that the hero looks awesome
The sacrifice thing I do agree that was a huge part of the culture n I do have my own personal beliefs init it isn’t like they sacrifice who ever they saw no they sacrificed people of war the war prisoners but yea they should of mentioned that and I do agree bc tbh I would of loved to see a new map of ships and Aztec base showing they’re architecture
At the end of the day i was almost right about Ocelotl and his arrival on Heathmoore. Horkos fucked up and now they're against something worse than them. At this point I wonder how it is going to evolve since we have both a new Viking Hero and Hero Skin on December.
There are many more op 4th feats and his 4th feat has a long recovery. Direct hit with fire flask almost burns the enemy completely to death if they don’t get out of it. Hito can instant kill if someone getting ganked and gets gb’d, bp, cent, and JJ get 11 seconds of shields for them and all teammates nearby. Last laugh instant kills if you don’t execute or get out asap. Anyway there are stronger feats than this one for the Aztec and yes it needs a slight nerf, it’s not completely broken. Strong, but not game breaking. Also 1st needs a slight nerf with healing, or speed and bigger radius for proximity to enemies in order to respawn.
Hey raven just think bout it the ghost feat is just a more longer version of warmonger or Jorms auto Revive but with full hp they have to wait longer or chose to get back in like warmonger revive move with low hp
In the lore they said the conquistadors lied when they told their stories, the conquistadors got butchered and slaughtered, the conquistadors obviously fought back and also killed many aztecs, then the surviving aztecs came up with a plan, the leader will surrender and tell them a few lies "bla bla bla i'm the last surivor bla bla bla" his aztec followers followed him back to heathmoor and the aztecs got revenge, slaughtering and butchering them... the reason they brought him back was so that horkos could see the warrior survivor and so that astrea can execute him... His last feat is fully ok, it probably has a higher cooldown, the only thing is that they should nerf the bleed damage to maybe 16+8=24 dmg (16 bleed and 8 damage for the stab) for a last feat but it also grants a gb. I'm really excited for the new hero but dissapointed that the death whistle is such a silent emote.
I feel like the spear-throwing 4th feat definitely should be nerfed in terms of it not being a confirmed guardbreak. Otherwise I feel like it is "balanced" as of now because of the other 4th feats in the game that can essentially one shot (fire flask, aramusha's fire bow despite it even being a 3rd feat)
But Shinobi could do this whenever he would, and this is on a long cooldown. Plus, compared to the fire flask or the throwing axes from Medjay, it isn't too bad, not to mention it gets countered by dodges 🤔
What I'm upset about is how they didn't give him vengeful barrier while they named the battle pass items vengeful something, definitely a missed opportunity. And I did say I was gonna curse the devs with neverending hangnails if the new hero is a hybrid, but they impressed me with this guy so I'll let it slide.
I wasn’t able to watch the reveal with you Raven! You already know I’m not disappointed with this hero and I’m looking forward to all your videos. Hope the renovations went well btw Edit: I completely agree with you on the Aztec point, us Latinos already know 100% what the fuck was up with the Aztecs, they’re still cool! I feel like people close to the culture shoulda been more involved to avoid these kinda things overall
I don't understand what is unique about this hero? Besides feat. His stalker stance is lackluster and won't be all that in 4s. His infinite combo having different properties at the end isn't a unique feature. It's just putting medjays axe stance with afeera essentially.
That offensive stance could’ve really made this hero perfect. Imagine you’re able to dodge around fast in that stance like highlander and have multiple unique attacks but instead they just gave him a dodge forward heavy🤦🏽♂️ cool design, mid/typical light/heavy chain bash move set.
Why I think the tier 4 is fine. I think it’s no worse then getting fire flashed off screen. Or getting hitokiri ulted when you get knocked down Most tier 4s are insta kills so his being strong isn’t crazy
I just think the T1 is so cool that I don’t mind if it’s a little OP. The rest of his kit doesn’t seem overtuned anyway so it could lead to renown feeding from bad players. I think it’s fine. One gripe I have is that the he needs some sort of VFX when he disappears and reappears to the enemy, it looks goofy that he just pops into existence. T2 sucks, I wouldn’t want to use it except in niche scenarios when losing a close fight away from a heal point. Might be nice if it was longer but only buffed the Ocelotl’s damage against the killing player. T3 is fine, I wish it lasted longer. T4 is actually not OP at all imo. Roughly a 40+24 damage projectile with a minor potential for ledges/environmental kills. Fire flask is still in the game, T3 projectiles all already do 50 damage and Medjay’s T4 does 70 (77 with buff from T1). I really don’t think it’ll be an issue at all. His moveset is super cool and everything has a purpose. The stance looks kinda dumb but maybe there’ll be some cool uses to it.
Feats, tier 1 I dont think it needs another drawback it has so many that I feel like people might prefer not to use it (cause I think he is getting Bounty Hunter it only makes sense but thats a guess) and the tier 1 doesnt even leave you able to be revived. tier 2 I think most people missed this cause it wasn't talked about but when they ledge the oppoenent he doesnt get the debuff which means anytime you are left in the executed state you arent punished, and tier 1 already wants you to heavily focus on executing him. tier 3 yeah its fine it makes sense and its basically if bloodlust became a tier 3. and tier 4 I will simply say, I think it is fine, it may give us ptsd, but it is a slow recharging 4th feat and not BASE KIT which was the issue with shinobi, this feels how a 4th should feel especially since we have tier 4s and 3s that do some stuff that is more annoying and/or the same level. 4th feat is meant to be your trump card it feels like a trump card it is fine
i very much agree about the tier 4. its a damn single target tier 4, kyoshins tier 4 is way more powerful than this bleed and free gb every minute or so, is pretty standard imho, i don't get how anyone can hate this
I think the first feat should be like a second feat or sumn and the fourth honestly isn’t bad but I think it shouldn’t apply bleed and cause so much damage
Caltrops was nerfed because a good team will use caltrops not in the lane but ahead of the teams minions towards the enemy spawn as the enemy minions will be killed in front of ur teams minions. Meaning no contesting, on top of a 20 second downtime is incredibly strong. This feat has been banned in the competitive scene. It wasnt nerfed till now as nuxia was terrible until recently.
Yeah performance mode is great and all, BUT CAN WE JUST GET CROSS PROGRESSION. I'm tired of playing on my old gen Xbox, I just want to play on my new PC I just built with all my heroes and reps
I heard Aztec being added to for honor and I thought of the cool armor and weapons and fighting style/stances they would add. Human sacrifice didn’t enter my mind until I watched this video. Seemed as irrelevant as adding how the knights should probably be Christian and being from a medieval time period would probably not allow women around them at all for women are delicate and all that non-sense that were huge parts of the culture of the faith of the time. Historical accuracy about religion never seemed that important compared to the cool aspect of the actual fighting in the fighting game. Historically, some foot soldiers in conquistador armies wrote of their time in the americas a lot less favorably than their commanders. They said things like how they thought they were getting gold, but they would return to Spain to get laughed at for gold plated, or just fake gold items they brought back, but their commanders forced them to keep it quiet. My take is that Vela raided some small outskirt jungle settlements on a very large large continent with a massive empire and thought she had made some massive achievement she can show off. Whether the ocelotyl was a leader of some small militia or sent by the actual centralized empire doesn’t matter. The end result is that he was supposed to lead a force back to land of the invaders. To the main characters this could look like revenge, for the warriors related to the people in the outskirt villages it probably is, but to many others it’s more like a scouting party to test the waters for a larger invasion. All I’m saying is that the invaders understanding the true motives of the jaguar warriors following them (and our understanding of they they’re following them) is potentially not accurate. As that’s not how history works. Especially when it comes to cultures who believe themselves superior to other cultures coming into contact with one another.
So my friend here, has a weird flute that screams like a human being, with a skull portrayed in it... Yep, that totally looks like a peaceful and friendly person froma a peaceful and friendly culture.
Honestly, the Fourth It's not as bad as people think. There are already projectiles off-screen that kill you and do damag pk Will literally drop a bomb and Insta kill you.
T4 isnt that big of a problem for me It isnt as nearly as spammable as pre rework shinobi, and if you can see the attack coming, you can dodge on reaction (I can dodge Jorm t3 and most longbows on old gen)
