As a boat owner, I always have a peace of mind doing the whole job, knowing that I'll be on a strong and solid floor and not to worry about it for many years as long it is properly maintained. Go for it, tearing it out usually takes so much longer than rebuilding in many cases (from experience). You've gone so far already, go for it ! I guarantee you won't have any regrets if you did.! Keep it up, and thanks for sharing, it is always so nice watching boaters sharing so that viewers are inspired to tackle anything they set their minds on projects. I look forward to watching your progress, i know you both can do it! (you both have done so much already) Many thumbs up!!
Guys, I would suggest you remove the original core, but cut it away so that you leave about a 3 inch perimeter of the existing core un-removed all along the perimeter of what you cut away. Then take a look at the condition of the exposed area, and the "lip" that was left. If the lip is in good condition it can serve as a flange under the new decking, which would simplify the new work. If the lip is no good, then you would cut it away and redo from scratch. But it will be easier to remove the lip with the center cut away, than it would be to cut away everything all at once. Use epoxy for the new work if you can. My boat was built in 1966, so I feel your pain. Greg
Two things. First, I have recently redone my cockpit sole and was faced with a similar dilemma; do I go over-top with plywood and glass, or strip it down to the base layer of glass and build up from there? I decided to strip it down. In doing so I used a multi-tool (the best new power tool of the past twenty years) to get to the glass (reasonable quickly) then added 5 layers of new glass to reinforce the base level glass, then added 3/4" plywood covered with epoxy, then glassed 4 layers on-top of that. I also made a peanut butter epoxy mixture and created new gutters down the sides of the floor that takes water to the scuppers. Afterward, I covered the floor with Kiwi-grip non-slip. The finished product is excellent. It is however, a big, time consuming job. Not to mention how difficult it is to work with your body often laying across the lockers while reaching down to the floor. Best of luck, you are on the right path. Second, I am a PGA golf professional and have seen thousands of golf swings and taught thousands of lessons. As such I must say that I was impressed with your golf swing and your ability (and confidence) to hit a ball off of a very tight lie; a piece of wood. I would say that someone has played quite a lot of golf in her day, yes?
This is what I am in process of doing on my 1974 Coronado. But I may be ahead, old rotten wood gone, new wood, and new 4 layers of 8oz mat over the top and bonded to the vertical sides of the cockpit. faired in the edges with some total boat fairing compound, and just about to put on some enamel to finish the job. I would definately take out all the old stuff. Even just from an air quality standpoint, moldy wood is not what you want to be breathing while you are sleeping. Love you guys!
I am sure you will agree that you are learning a lot throughout this adventure. And when all is said and done, you will know every inch of how that boat was rebuilt and repaired. Lots of piece of mind knowing the quality of the work because you did it yourself.
Cut the old core out! Use the last layer as a starting block. Grind the edges back then plywood treat with epoxy first then epoxy then cloth then thicken epoxy to fair out everything when u drill holes in the deck over size them fill with epoxy first dry then drill your hole no rot issues
Hey if the core is dry a little trick would be to thin down the epoxy resin to 30% with mek or suitable thinners and inject it into the core to make a solid bonded composition.When ever you do timber work,impregnate the timber with two layers of 10% thinned epoxy that stuff soaks right in,then go 30% and finish with 100% mix. So to recap measure out resin and hardener,mix,thin down to desired consistency then apply,the thinner the mix the deeper it goes with the vehicle(thinning agent) to carry it into the pores of the materials.take care.
On my old Columbia 28, we had a similar problem, so we cut the whole thing out and made the entire cockpit sole into a removable hatch for easier engine access to the atomic four which was otherwise a pain in the tuckus to get to to do any kind of service on it, which it needed a lot of often. We put bolts all around the perimeter ar eight inch intervals, but made sure we had properly sealed each of the bolt holes by over drilling the size, filling with epoxy, then drilling the correct bolt hole size to make sure that there wouldn’t ever be water intrusion again into the core of the new cockpit sole hatch.
I think the reason the added wood rotted was because there was nowhere for the water leaking in to drain. I vote for replacing the original cockpit flooring. But that can open up a whole new can of worms...
dig the old core out make it right- my friend and i restored an old stephens flat bottom that sat at the bottom of the river for 3 months . the best ski rides of our lives and she still goes 20 years later
I would glass the existing bottom THEN lay down an epoxy coated floor board over that, then glass over that. Quicker and Strong and it'll last long enough.
Think the best thing to do is to remove the old floor and mount a new. Maybe leave a small edge around in the sides so it can hold the new floor in place.
I would keep the existing bottom layer, sand and clean thoroughly and rebuild the floor from this base using plywood and fiberglass. Others may have the complete technique to do that job. Good luck and lots of patience. Richard
What a shame the previous owners were no5 able to fix the cockpit floor correctly! I believe that IF you plan on keeping the boat for awhile, then remove it completely, installing a new one in a correct fashion. IF you are not planning a long term ownership, just repair and lay over the existing base.
I've done that exact same job on a previous boat. My advice is remove the rotten core,clean and abrade the laminate and lay a new core on a mix of epoxy and microfibers. Then laminate on top and around the edges.Use epoxy throughout.Then sand smooth and paint.
If the fiberglass below the old core is still there, remove the top skin, clean out the core and use the bottom glass for a base, otherwise clean the old core out from below and use the top skin as a base, sand the fiberglass down from the top side getting rid of any gelcoat, put down a couple layers of biaxial (making sure they run up the sides a bit) then thickened resin to accomodate any uneven spots, new core and tab to the sides then two more layers of biaxial and gel coat with nonskid. If you want you can put a layer of chop strand mat over the biaxial for a better finish. As long and the new core is sealed from both sides, and the old rotten core is out, should be good for a long while. This way will be easier to make sure the deck is level.
I vote to rebuild the cockpit sole from scratch. Just hoping your decks are in better shape. The fun never ends ! Boatyard projects are better viewing than cruising imo. Always something different. When cruising, it's nice, but it's always more dolphins, lunch time, free-diving, customs check-in/out over and over. Good luck. Thanks for sharing your saga !
How long will the rest of the boat last? If not so many years, do a quick fix that will last the rest of the anticipated boat's life. If she's still a keeper, do a proper job. One thing is for sure: you learn a lot on this boat! I admire both of you for keeping up the good spirit! Good on you!
Its great. It gets clothes cleaner. We use to use a plunger and a bucket but this seems to create more suds and you can agitate it more effectively. I think we will go for cutting it all out.
You've gotten this far you might as well go the rest of the way. Everything I've watched the two of you do has never been halfway, why start now. Michal, that's a beautiful golf swing!
Do it the right way. Cut it out and start from scratch. You are young enough and will likely keep this boat for many years. Make it out live you. Love your videos.
I'm a woodworker. I've done lots of repairs for people. My opinion is do the repair correctly. Replace it all. Just patching something up is just asking for trouble in the future. You guys are making good progress on this project. Keep up the good work.
I think they had a rudder pedestal in there. Therefore the deck needs to be able to handle some compression and other forces from the pedestal. For that reason it requires a plywood core, just as the original was.
Anything you bolt through that old layer on the bottom like the pedistal will never stay tight and solid because it will keep compressing. Cut it out. You are doing great guys. I wish you only paid $1000 for that thing.
Where did you find the old lady and parrot? I wait all week just to watch your latest episode. In regards to rebuilding something? A little more work and you will never wonder about that portion of the deck again. You’re going use roughly the same amount of material either way correct?
Pull the drains - you are going to need to bed them anyway- don't work around them or your seal will not be good . Best fix would have been to cut it out from below and recore but now that there are so many holes in the original I would cut it out from above re-core and do new , you need to grind back the glass to fresh glass for a good bond . For finish I would contemplate a teak grid on the floor just in case your glass work in not as pretty as you wish it was. Would match the teak on the seats . Also in your new install make it solid glass anywhere there is a penetration like the drains , or where the wheel bolts in that way even if it leaks one day it will bot rot the care again .
@ 6:43 I love that laugh! slightly crazed ;) and Michal, Bad ass golfing skills! You're becoming my favorite sailing channel....hope to see you actually sailing soon!
Yep. You’re into it this far. Do it right and get the rest of the cockpit sole cleaned out. Also, might be the time to think about making the boat easier to maintain, forget the wheel steering and setup a good tiller. Install bigger cockpit drains. And yes nice golf swing.
Nice golf swing! I am surprised that you both haven't done a golfing gig to restock the repair kitty, no doggy in this vid, sad.... and I would take out any and all soggy wood and fillet in a new cockpit floor with west system epoxy plus more drainage scuppers!!! How's the rest of the process going? Are you finished with the bottom, steering, prop, shaft etc. or you just need to not feel like quitting so you start another pandoras box project.....
It is a thing of beauty watching that swing. We are having trouble receiving the epoxy paint that we paid for and have ordered prop shaft etc. as for the steering, it can't go back together until the cockpit floor is solid.
Your vids are so fun even when you are not so happy. If the boat is 50 yrs old, it's kind of a waste of time to think parts of it will ever be 'like new' without extraordinary cost and effort. That's the road to unhappiness. Keep the existing floor for for general integrity. Re-do the patch as throughly as you can with better techniques. Get out there sailing! Trade up to better boats along the way. Happy adventures!
As I did on a 29-footer. I took out the floor and raised it up to almost even with the deck. That and removing the old motor gave me a great storage space. I would have raised it more, if I had to do over and add to aft lockers to make a rear state room, small but usable.
Wonder if that wood, the last thing you took out, was marine plywood. It has held up really well and still had a lot of strength. Probably in there 20 years ! And kept constantly wet.
I would think it was. Like you said it has been in for a while and was clearly wet. Parts were like cardboard but pieces like the ones I chopped with my karate skills were actually pretty strong.
You guys have always done everything first rate, so I'm guessing that you'll rip everything out. My advice is that you'd save a ton of time, expense and labor if you lay some glass over the existing mess and move on. If you take the time to fix everything like new, you'll be as old as me before you're back on the water. Learn from what you've seen. Sand and tab all the way up the side of the cockpit to the seats, and its never coming off and won't leak. If you lay in a plywood core, have glass on both sides. If you can get some honeycomb core, use that because it will never rot. Even without core, 3/8 to 1/2 inch of glass built up from lots of layers will hold you and the steering. The presence of muck below that does not diminish its strength. No matter what you do with the floor, the most important thing is sealing where the steering and anything else goes through. Thats where water gets in and rot begins. Water is not coming in through the fiberglass, its getting in where things go through the floor and are not sealed. An extreme method is to drill every hole just a little oversize, fill with thickened epoxy, then drill the right size hole through the epoxy. Another is to paint the inside of every hole with epoxy so water doesn't get into the entire cross-section of plywood or whatever you put there. Then 4200 anything you'd like to remove at some point and 5200 stuff you want really stuck. Words of warning from an old guy who used to be young once; Drydock restoration and upgrades can become a never-ending sitcom. You can always take ten times as long to "do it right". You can always come up with one more little project that would make cruising so much better once its done. And you do it and do it until you're old, but you never got back to cruising. There are old guys in every boatyard with this exact story. I know, its happening to me. I only made a short trip last summer because I kept working on the boat until it was too late to spend a lot of time. I've worked on it all winter, and am about to miss my hoped-for departure date because there are still things I'd like done before cruising long-term. If I keep working on the boat, this summer will be gone as well. Fix what needs to be fixed to get back on the water. While cruising, you'll develop a list of stuff that you want to do next time some urgent issue requires another haul-out. You're going to haul-out sometime in the next three to six years even if you don't want to. You don't need to make everything perfect right away. Perfection is the bane of everything thats good enough. The more jobs done good enough, the more of your lives are spent cruising... unless you're starting to like living in the boatyard. It happens.
Nine Hundred Dollar Luxury Yacht Excellent advice from I am guessing a very wise man. I am falling into that trap myself faster than I dare admit to myself. My 36 footer has been in dry dock for nearly 5 years now because every "I'll do a proper job on this bit" that I tackle reveals something else that's not up to my expectations. I really don't know what to suggest to them as I know how the dilemma sucks you in like a spell. Difficult one.......if it were me I would want to strip all the old core out and rebuild that floor like new. This will of course take up most of this season and probably will reveal more issues. It's knowing when to stop and accept when something is good enough in the grand scheme of things and I certainly haven't figured that out myself yet. 😕
Sorry for my poor english :) i think the good way to do it is : 1 dry sand all the surface + about 5cm high all arround. 2 refill all the holes whith a melt of epoxy+ fiberglass cute verry fine. 3 make a epoxy stratification 3 or 4 plyes on the whole place. 4 drill the new holes for water evacuation. Have fun ! :)
My first inclination is fix it right ie replace the original flooring. Beware that in doing so you might or more likely will find more to fix. You could open up a big can of worms. Any idea on the condition of the structure that supported the old floor? Not the plywood but the studs and beams? If you cut out the last fiberglass layer you might lose that structure as the fiberglass might be holding your cockpit in shape. Kind of like cutting out the bottom of a cardboard box then it’s hard to keep the box squared and the sides from bowing out. Either way use the coosa composite board for your flooring as it will not rot.
Fix it right unless you just scrap it. Covering it up won't stop it from getting worse underneath. It's same as people covering up rusted cars with bondo then I'd have to clean it all out and do it right later. Fix it or scrap it - I don't think you're the kind of people to pass it along to the next unsuspecting buyer.
I might as well leave a comment of my own here. There has been some comments to replace the rotten core with foam or some other soft core material. That is a good idea in some places, but not here. Not in this case. Since you have a steering pedestal there, the cocpit floor needs to be surprisingly strong. A wobbly steering pedestal is not only annoying, but in time is going to cause leaks and other troubles. There fore the correct way to repair this, is like it is originally done in quality boats. Take out all rotten material. So tear out also the original rotten core. Repair and strengthen the bottom layer fiberglass. Install a new PLYWOOD or some other HARD CORE material, using epoxy. Laminate a new top layer cocpit floor. You do not need to use epoxy here. Polyester is faster and cheaper and under rated. Prevent the future water intrusion by epoxying ALL holes you make or drill in your new core.
You guys have been redoing everythi g already, you might as well keep fixing what you can while you can. That way you have the safety of knowing it's done right and will hold for the open seas. It's great to see your videos bums!
Your best bet is to take it all the way down and do it correctly. If you just go over the original problems you will have to do it again or the person you sell it to later will have to repair it. Also, if you do it correctly and take it to the bear frame then it will be stronger and help with the rigidity of the boat and its seaworthiness.
Out out OUT with the Balsa original No 1 core, too. It's work, though, but just think about the rot'n fungus You do not spread around any more once You cut out the centre source. To keep on carrying a soggy biohazardous mess somewhere in Your boat when You're already so near to ripping it out would be a sacrilege. If You can get it downthere, build in a PVC interlinked foam core instead of ply or endgrain - less prone to soaking. You'll need some high density parts of foam for the pedestal though. Cheers
I agree, do it right and then you know what's been done. It may add time and money, but it's knowing that the boat is in good order makes you feel better. Don't do it right and you'll eventually have to redo it. Unless you sell the boat then you pass the problem to someone else, just like was done to you.
I was actually thinking about this situation and maybe if you are willing to do a little more work you could turn the deck in to an extra engine hatch like on the Reinke Super 10 series. You can see what I'm describing in Untie the lines III #23. It's at the beginning of the video in the first couple of minutes. Just make it from the back of the Salon hatch to in front of the steering column. Here's the link: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5actf31UdBE.html
What does the bottom look like, i assume the wood had fiberglass above and below? because it is the cockpit core, i would use marine foam, so it does not take in any moisture again, but as someone else said, its not going to sink the boat. Fiberglass lasted the first 20 and the second layer lasted another 20... if you are cool with keeping for next 10 I would say just use wood.. if its your for life boat, then i would go with foam. ultimate question is.. were either of those cores marine grade plywood? and do you have access to marine grade down by you.
There is only one standard. The question is how close can we get to it? Take it all out and despite the extra work you will rest easy when next you sail!
use an epoxy soaked nidacore board then re-glass the top. taking back the old fiber glass on the sides to bare glass with a sander. then use a skirt of fiber glass around the sides and over the top to make a solid base. then you will never have to worry about any rot
cut the floor out and raise half the cockpit floor you lose half the cockpit but you gain a shot tonne of storage below. and then you can run a single centre mounted deck winch which makes solo sailing so much easier
Not an uncommon issue in plywood or balsa wood cored boats. I have gouged out much sloppy wet mush and with basically the same tools as your using. When ever you drill a hole for a bolt or put a screw thru decking like that you need to take the time to over size the holes come back and fill them with good epoxy and then drill the smaller hole thru the pure epoxy resin or you get messes. Even doing that doesn’t guarantee you won’t ever have rotten coring. Gelcoat is surprisingly porous. Welcome to the world of boating. Keep the faith, you will go through some of these challenges but come out knowing your boat’s construction better and be way more self sufficient out on the water.
I personally (if your budget will Allow )...Rip it out and do it the right way....Although if you go over the old it would probably last the life of the boat....Your gonna have a brand new boat by the time your all done.lol.......
Go all the way. Remove that crap. If it were me, it would drive me nuts knowing that rot was there, stewing. I have an old house. There's the original builder who did a great job. And then there's The Idiot who did various stuff later. Like, why is there a door cut out into the stairs from the bedroom?? Why?? Then why patch it all back in there with silicone?? Why?? Don't be someone's The Idiot later.
My suggestion would be, to put in some temporary timber bracing to support the cockpit floor on the underside, then remove the top skin of fiberglass and remove the original core material. Then scrape clean, sand and make good the underside fiberglass skin from above, most importantly don't waste time trying to repair it from below, once its made good, then lay up another layer of glass on it, then cut your new plywood core to size and then mix up some epoxy and add a few drops of acetone to thin it and saturate the plywood on both sides and all the edges using a brush or roller repeating this a few times to saturate it, then wet out the lower skin, install the new core and then lay up a new top skin. Regards, Dave.
Stephen Thomas Enjoying your adventure! When undertaking a boat project there are two important considerations "time and money"! If you have the time and money then do the best job you can possibly do. Remove the rotten core and get it out of the vessel-since your already in there. If it was soft and you decide to make the repair then do it right. Leaving the soft core could create odors, bugs (like gnats) along with mold and mildew. None of which are good-. Although I have not seen all of your video post and how you acquired the boat, I do recall you paid $2,000 for it and it was in the water, so "as is where is" and I guess the idea was "I will deal with the repairs and up grades later. So now you dealing with them. What you do not want is to be standing there one day trying to sell the boat to someone and have to lie about something you know you did not take care of when you were right there and could have.
@@stephenmccarthy144 Don't know if you have looked at the earlier videos after your post but when Joel and his buddies bought the boat they knew almost nothing about old boats. Frankly I think they were very lucky with what they got, it could have been far worse.
The glass probably did notstick as the cockpit sides were not sanded ,a 2" strip is all you need to as you say tab the floor down , sanding the shiney smooth original molded surface is necessary to get a good grip or key to get the resin to stick , whether epoxy or polyester. Good luck guys , you are doing ok.
You have the tools and the know how to remove the rotten wood, so do it, after the rotten material has been removed the repair is the same as if you didn't remove it but it will be a lasting repair. If you were to encapsulate that rotten wood that has moisture with another layer you will soon have the same situation as you do now, the wood will continue to decompose and delaminate
Best advice my dad ever gave me: If it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing right the first time. Tear it all out and replace it with a marine grade ply core.
If your boat fixing skills were as awesome as your video storytelling, you'd already be in the Marquesas making moves on Madagascar - which is not to say your boat building isn't solid but I think you do awesome productions :-))) On matters more mundane, I have a similar issue with a boat - for my money, clean up the lowest layer, glass over to preserve the (flat) shape (maybe support with a board underneath while doing this) then basic 3/4 ply for the interlayer and glass on top joined to the sides. Cheers guys
I would not use plywood I would get some marine foam board about 5/8 or 3/4 inch thick and glass both sides of it with a bi ax and csm, multiple layers on the bottom of the foam,to build it up then lay the foam core in a bed of resin on the old floor and tab it in several over lapping layers but I don't know what shape the old floor is though
If it were mine I would replace the whole floor. Once the water got in it spread everywhere in the wood. Take your new deck wood and coat both sides with resin. Glass the bottom with one later of csm. Use thickened resin to glue the new deck down and screw it in with stainless screws and sink them flush. Then lay three layers of csm down on top with each layer extending past the others on the sides to tab it in. And last roll down gelcoat mixed with cabasil with a smooth roller. That will give you a non skid surface. Use a good quality no wax polyester resin and a waxed gelcoat. No need for epoxy. Epoxy is very good but its also very expensive. Polyester resin is much cheaper and if you do your prep work and use it correctly your work will last you a very long time.
I'm a vegan minimalist. Less is more. I hand wash my 2 shirts 2 pants 4 pair of socks. I then sun dry them. 1 gallon of water for bathing.I ride a bike and take public transportation. Mother earth loves me and I love her too. Great golf swing.
Mine is a 50 year old 27 foot mono hull deep keel with single skin mostly with no core stuff and double skin for kitchen and Center seating so not much double skin . The cockpit is similar depth and size to your with a well designed leak proof floor hatch to access over the prop shaft exit. However the cockpit hatch is too small to enter under cockpit so i might increase the size of this hatch .My plan is to make very water proof wooden box covered in fibre glass that will fill up most of the cockpit. That's because large waves falling into cockpit cause the boats stern to become very down as water is heavy and cockpit can fill with 500 pounds or 200 kilos of water in seconds . This can allow the boat to take a second wave more easy . Cockpit drains take too long to drain out . The extra weight of this much water can cause the rudder to fail in large seas . The box I will make will be held in with straps so it can be removed for access to the prop shaft . The box would also be used for extra storage of light weight materials like sails or similar . In harbours the box will be probably be removed to allow normal use of the cockpit .Racing yaught often don't have transoms so any waves entering the cockpit flow back out quickly . I know a pain to not have full depth in cockpit but having had several waves fall into my previous 34 foot cat and take many minutes to drain out and cause the metal rudder blade to be bent 45 degrees I respect large waves . My new policy is don't allow deep cockpits have the ability to retain lots of water. . For your floor now is the time to look to make a floor hatch which allows access to back of the engine region . You have to plan that cockpit box so it can be made water tight . I would prefer then to opt for single skin floor with glassed in wooden struts under the floor forb stiffing up the floor . After making the access hatch or getting access to under the cockpit floor get under the single skin cockpit floor and tiffing it up with the use layer of glass over all of it underneath to stop leaks and make it more rigid in . Then clean top layer of old glass and put layer of epoxy with S glass on the cockpit floor for more ridgity and also stop leaks etc. Then paint it with suitable paint . If your keen to not lose the depth of the cockpit look to make much large drains holes preferably out the transom region done in way that flaps or similar can stop water coming back in. with large waves . That might require to Fill the cockpit with water on the water to see what level the boat transom goes down in flooded cockpit scenario and how long the normal drain holes take to lose that water . Pay attention to problem of deck movement up and down . In severe weather the pipes on the cockpit drains have been known on drop keel 22 foot jaguar boat to start to come off the hull fitting causing instant ingress of water . Then the floor moves down blocking the water ingress as the drain pipes reseat . A SOB TO LOCATE WHERE IS THE WATER COMING FROM AS YOUR SINKING . A Friend mine been there got the T shirt and also broke the rudder for the extra water weight . As he said getting access to the cockpit drain tubing to stop the leak while submerged in freezing Icelandic water when the boat is very full of water put hairs on his Icelandic chest . Then when he later changed boats he then clobbered a whale to add to his woes .There is a lot to be said for the open transom solutions with no drains in it . The size of the cockpit you have isn't looking to be big enough to justify the use of double core but there might be other issues like structural benefits to deck to consider but I dought it So if you want original double core then go for go for it but its a bit over engineering for my taste and for my budget constraints .
It's a drag but I don't see any way around ripping it all up and doing it right. Try to use a better core material than plywood, such as structural foam or end grain balsa. Might be hard to find where you're at though.
