people just automatically think "oh that must be terrible on gas" just because its an old car with a big engine. are they right or way off? we test a 452ci big block on a road trip to find out
That's pretty impressive, the high compression engine is more efficient than the low compression smog engines that got horrible gas mileage and were slow.
@@4mrholsterco981 The core _concept_ that government generally aims for - forcing manufacturers as a whole to act in the best interests of efficiency, safety, or whatnot - is generally well intentioned. The across-the-board adoption of modern, reliable MPFI systems here in the US is - at least in part - thanks to regulations that were successful in their outcome. The problem is when bureaucracy gets in the way, and/or when people who have no business making such decisions wedge in their say. This is not unique to government: I'm sure every person here who has ever been employed can look at their own organization and name not one, but multiple examples of an unqualified higher-up wrecking an otherwise good project. I've personally witnessed an ad campaign with a visual "A + B = C" go from being _completely fine_ to screwed up into "A + C = B" during a single board meeting. All it took was one higher-up - who had no business providing input - to influence everyone in the room to let their intelligence and logic take a hike. The campaign went out as "A + C = B." Guess what happened when the campaign was released? The first unsolicited feedback was a kind soul who had seen it, tried to make sense of it, and asked us if it was supposed to be "A + B = C."
@@4mrholsterco981 Nah. The government getting involved was nessicary to force the automakers to evolve. If they didn't lay down the law on smog then there would've been no reason to develop engines that can make good power without turning LA's sky brown. They'd just keep churning out the same shit with yearly styling changes and no real improvements forever. The malaise era sucked but the big three needed the wake up call.
The key is that you know how to jet a carburetor and how to tune the power circuit instead of just fattening up the main jets, how to set the timing and make good use of the vacuum advance, and your cruise RPM is in the peak torque range of your engine/cam combination. :>)
Maximizing vacuum advance timing has almost doubled the gas mileage in my old Charger... It also allows the engine to run cooler... I finally cured an overheating problem in my Chevy work truck just by switching it to a manifold vacuum source, and maximizing the adjustment screw, now the temperature gauge stays around 170-180 degrees even in traffic, I of course figured this out after replacing the entire cooling system first, and then it would still overheat... Another weird thing I once noticed about vacuum advance was when one time in an old 318 powered Dodge truck, I forgot to reconnect vacuum hose one time after checking timing and when I got on the interstate, I noticed that I had to keep my foot in the throttle like almost halfway, (almost opening the secondaries) just to stay at 65 MPH. Later, after reconnecting the vacuum hose, I could cruise at 65 MPH with the throttle barely cracked open, and fuel mileage was back to normal... If you think about it, late timing/combustion heats the entire length of the cylinder all the way down to BDC and still burning on its way out through the exhaust, which overpowers the cooling system and adds excess heat under hood. Correct timing keeps the combustion in the top of cylinder/chamber which is easier to keep cool and makes more power... Usually when I see a "street car" that has overheating issues and crappy mileage, it's because someone put a billet race distributor in it with no vacuum advance... Great video as usual!!!
No one ever believed I averaged 23 MPG in a '68 Satellite with a .060 over 383 906 heads, Mopar Performance electronic ignition, 484 purple stick cam, edelbrock intake, and edelbrock afb carb, dual exhaust, stock exhaust manafolds and 3.23 gears, 727 trans. In mostly flat ground Georgia. Running 1990's pump gas, and the exhaust smelled like race fuel. Very efficient fuel burn.
The 383 was a great engine. As a teen I remember having a similar conversation with a guy who owned a '68 Roadrunner 383. Back then, gas was cheap so nobody really cared about his 20mpg claim. I did because I had read Smokey Yunick's book like it was a bible. I know that Smokey doesn't get as much credence nowadays but he was all about efficiency.
My second car was a '72 Delta 88 Royale 2-door. It weighed 4300 pounds dry, with a 455 and 3.23 rear gears. With all the bells and whistles, power everything, AC, and with the cruise control on, I clocked it at 25.4 mpg on the highway, 18 around town. in 1978, with about 40,000 miles on it. You could fit most modern cars in the trunk of that thing. And comfy as your living room.
Good economy comes down to a good combination and tuning ! My 71 Nova with 395 SBC 260@.050 mechanical roller camshaft, 4.11 gears TH350 5000 stall converter 28 inch drag radials and 33 with me gets 15+ MPG at 65 MPH Oh yeah, it runs 10.28 @ 128 just the way I have been driving it for years. The sun shines wherever it goes 🏁😁
Yep, that's why a vacuum advance is known as the 'economy' advance ? 1969 Charger R/T SE 440/Auto/3.23's W/28 Tires.... unrestored/unrebuilt original everything including it's single point ignition.... and yep, when I tell people the thing gets better mileage than my Silverado..... all I get are those "BS" looks ?
My '69 Charger with a 440/4 speed/cam/750 dbl pumper/Mallory dual pt w/centrifugal advance/ windows down that I drove back in the 1980s got about 8mpg but, I drove it like I stole it and I never was so inclined back then to see what kind of mileage I could get out of her like you did. Kudos to you.
My car with big solid roller 12:1 and 470ci with 2x4 does 9-10mpg around town in traffic and its not really tuned to run lean. I have 4.10 rear gear and 29" rear tire. What you showed is not surpriising at all. People that complain have these cars running pig rich.
Ran a '76 Valiant in a vintage TDS event. The engine is a 318; SUM6901 cam kit, matching springs, forged I-beam rods, KB pistons, '70 340 forged crank, '90 360 "308" heads with a little clean up work done, windage tray, Air Gap Performer intake, Edelbrock carb, machining & balancing by a well-respected guy here in NC (he does work for some very big names), and had the distributor rebuilt & the advance tuned for the combo. The trans is 904, just has a cooler from an '80 Aspen cop car, deep pan & pick up, 3.8-1 kickdown lever, accumulator spring removed, line pressure turned all the way up, and the fluid is 50/50 synthetic & Type F. Rear end is a 2.76 gear. Exhaust is TBC headers, stainless 2.5" dual exhaust with an X-crossover. Cruising at 80-90 mph over 2324.6 miles, averaged 14-15 mpg. Now working on an 8.75" swap with 3.23 SG gearing & disc brakes (the fronts are 12" rotors) and an A-833 OD transplant giving me a 2.36 final drive. There will also be some subtle aero mods done...nothing crazy, but keeping air from underneath, counteracting the convex rear glass, pushing air from windshield corners, past the drip rail, and finally a small, metal duck tail (metal, painted body color) across the back trunk, quarter to quarter.
Yet another 2nd gen charger impresses me. Absolutely astonishing. A 69 charger has been my dream car since I was 5 years old and 30 years later I still want one just as bad as when I was a kid and seeing them always puts a smile on my face. I'd drive one just like the general every single day given the opportunity too. Someday... Great video!
The average between both fill ups and both miles driven is not the 19 mpg it’s actually 18.42 witch is definitely awesome and yes I believe it also!! I used to run a 1970 dodge dart swinger and I would drive it back and forth to college taking mechanic shop classes and one way was just over a hundred miles!!! It just had a 318 in it but it definitely did awesome and never made me late either!!!
Big big smile on my face, great video. I've a 455HO transam, tuned my carburetor and advance, make 16 liters for 100km(French way to calculate 😉) must be similar... Cheers bro👍
First car, 1971 Chevrolet Impala. 350 4 barrel w full length headers n duals. 20 mpg highway easy. Loved that car ❤ points ignition. Old school generator w/external voltage regulator. Th350 3 speed auto 2:73 rearend
In 1978 I was a high school student with a passion for rock concerts. I also had a '71 Imperial Lebaron with a 440. It was 80 miles to Minneapolis and gas was $00.64. My friend and I would get 8 tickets to the show and people would give me 2-3 bucks a piece for gas. My ticket was paid for. Nice deal cause the Chrysler got 17.5 mpg. Don't tell anybody.
I have a 73 Cadillac hearse I drove for 3 years. At the same time I had a 99 ram quad cab 5.9 auto 3.55. The truck got 16mpg. The hearse had a 472 auto (3speed) it got 19mpg. I put the hearse on a scale. It weighed in at 6800lbs. And has the aerodynamics of a brick. Both were bone stock. Except I did install an electronic pickup in the hearse distributor and tuned by ear. Thats is when I realized new tech wasn’t ready all that great. And that I like torque.
I own a 70 roadrunner 383 3-speed stick on the floor with 323 and it got 19 mi to the gallon at 70 mi an hour I clocked us a bunch when I was young my friends couldn't believe the mileage that car got and was still run low 14s going through the lights in second gear at 9 6 😂
Participated in 2017 Dragweekend in my 10.5;1 360 powered '69 Dart with 9.5in converter 727, 35 deg total, 27in tire, and 3.91 gears. At 65 mph was turning 3500rpm and still got 16mpg. Then turned several 12.10s at 112mph in 2000DA. Anything is possible w/tuning and effort!
My Charger will have almost the same setup but 2.76, TFS 240 heads, and 780cfm vacuum. 2.76 are only being used until I figure out the which OD Im going to use. Leaning towards 5spd Tremmec.
I've got a 75 Ford F100 that was originally eqipped with a 302 C4 and 3.00 gears , It was replaced with a early 70s 429 4bbl and FMX transmission still running the 3.00 gears and it got better mileage than the 302 and it was much more capable with the high torque big block
I used to have a quadrajet that got 20s per gallon on the freeway. That was in a 1967 Buick Electra. Blew people's minds. I did rebuild/jet it my way, to be honest.
My last 454 in a 78 Z-28 had dual AFB's and would break 20 mpg's at 70 mph average on a long trip. 2.75 gears and Richmond 4 speed with no overdrive. Got to run vacuum advance on manifold vacuum and lean down the transfer circuits which is what any engine with lots of carburetor is cruising on at highway speeds rather than the primaries.
Brother, my 03' Crown Vic Police Interceptor with a 4.6L 2V with a overdrive trans was getting 16 in the city and like 22 or 23 on the highway. With 239 horses. THAT SUX!!! SO now she is getting a Ls3/ and possibly a 6L90E (MAYBE). THE 6.2L with a BTR Stage 2 V2 should put her in the 500 something range at the crank. I am hoping to get at least 16 after the swap lol.
I ran the 500 ci kit from 440source for my 440. Had trick flow heads and I got great mileage. A-833 18 spline with a 410 sure grip dana 60. It is better than my 07 1500 ram with the 5.7 hemi. That 5.7 is a pig. People dont understand that an engine is an air pump. The easier it is to suck in and expel gasses the more power and efficient they will be.
Yo Chris, a provocative and inspirational video.... Makes me wonder, when are you getting back to the Daytona Charger?? Updates (other than "background sightings) ???
When i first got my 90 vette, the computer mpg average read 27mpg, its lower now at 18 lol but goes to show that big engines arent as bad as theyre made out to be. Just comes down to the build and how you drive your car.
My 69 426 RT Charger with 105 jets and 4:88's got about 8mph. Was new and that was all that was done to it. By the way cost $5001 off the showroom floor.
No surprise a-tall. Back in the day, we had a 383 2-bbl C-body 69 Monaco wagon that did 18 mpg average. A well-tuned B-body should do better even with the extra displacement.
I believe you big time.Ive been listening!Mine is DOING GOOD, but I do have the 292 gear(or whatever that high one is)But I'm way happy.Im running a 600 holley, and i still get rolling burn outs.lol.SHE RUNS!
That does it!! I AM gonna buy that ‘73 Eldorado, super tune the crap out of it, see how high I can get the MPG’s, enjoy the hell out of it and not feel guilty about using it.
I screwed myself Chris, I had the excuse as long as I couldn't afford tail lights for my junker in the yard it would never get worked on,People are nuts with prices,Well I found some for 75 bucks,So now the journey begins . As always great video.
One of my favorite cars of all time. I had various scale models of this, hotwheels too! I was sad to discover what the flag represents when I grew up though. It should have been an American flag.
here in the UK my diesel Vauxhall Insignia, Buick Regal to you guys 60 miles to a gallon of diesel, 800 to 900 miles on a tank of fuel but that cost here £100 which $127 dollars
I can throw out a few numbers, that show the difference with aerodynamics and a more efficient engine. My boattail Riv (461 cubes/aerodynamic as a brick) got around 15.5. Mostly highway/some stop and go. At the time, it had the factor 2.98's/TH400. 9.5:1 comp, KB single-plane, longtubes, low-duration with decent lift with some head porting and bigger valves. My '98 MKVIIII (281 cubes/super-slippery) had 2.90something gears, OD and would drop the body 2 inches, when you hit highway speeds. On a 400 mile trip, doing 70-75mph almost the whole way, that baby hit 28.8 MILES PER GALLON.
High compression and good tuning baby! My GS455 is pretty much the same spec #s (engine, trans, drivetrain etc.) throughout as your Charger. Yes it is possible(!) although yours is about 1 mpg better than my Buick........
Edit: Comparison after math, you're using about 3 more liters per 100km then my '02 3.3 Grand Voyager AWD does. Thing is, to make an engine make power, you have to do things that reduce pumping and friction losses, you have to burn the fuel as completely as possible, and then when you're sitting on a constant cruise, it'll sip fuel, not gulp it. If you swapped out the Holley for a Lean Burn equipped Thermoquad, with the right needles in it, then add either a rebuilt ELB ignition computer, or a new fully mapable ECM for ignition that follows the lean burn curves and operation (but without the reliability issue of those ancient analog computers), and chuck a set of big hi-flow catalytic convertors under it, you'll get even higher mileage and get modern tailpipe emissions. And still have massive secondaries to let it breathe and smoke the Gen3 equipped Charger.
Neutral isn't cheating : D hehe. I didn't knew you can coast in neutral at high speed without damaging the transmission : o , I always wondered. I guess it depends which transmissions. It's so cool.
The truth of bigger cam and tuned will always get better mileage than a factory job.. more fun to drive than a bog stock smog job..👍 looks like you need to rake the top wishbones back to caster the front up and make it self steer in power slides and self correction when u back off.. don't ask how i know this..
My 68 Fairlane with a 351w a C6 auto and highway gears drives like and keeps up with modern cars with plenty of torque. I am not suprised by your results.
Its simply a matter of tune a well tuned engine is an efficient engine and a powerful engine I keep my old Holden red motor well tuned its only a 202 inline 6 but it get 10l to 100km but i dont see much difference in milage with my overdrive box 4th is 1:1 5th is 1:0.78 But i think thats more to do with limited power and torque of my engine to push the car in 5th as it is dead stock I plan to run a SBC as my next engine it will be interesting to see the difference in mileage given the same top gear
Tuning is knowing what you can do with what you know how to do. Read, reader and read more of the principles and function of each component of ignition and carbs.. Make small changes one at a time so you know the results. Doing more than one, you'll not know which worked.
That’s great fuel mileage for a 7.3 engine set up right for mileage and to run faster than an srt. Chris maybe it’s time for Derrick to get one over on you. He tends to take some abuse. He s like a fixture with you. Derrek is Cool. Have a good day E
dude thats awesome id daily that car. i cant understand why you aint at a miilion subs you rub elbows with some good you tubers dont get me wrong i love your content but based on you own merits you def should be at a mill.keep up the good work
On normal NA non variable valve timing engines (and no Wankels), the peak torque rpm is the most efficient rpm. That's why all those little four bangers in the 80s and 90s that had to spin at 4k rpm on the interstate got such good mpg. Their peak torque was way up there. Makes me wonder how your engine would dyno right now- if peak torque is actually around 3k rpm. If the engine is "Built" for drag racing, that usually moves the peak torque up the rev range so you make more power with higher revs (but have less at low rpm). But it sounds like your engine is strong down low too. No replacement for displacement, I guess. 440 6 packs used to be popular, but tuning multi-carb setups is a PITA- usually results in poor low rpm performance. FWIW.. I miss my 88 F150- EFI straight 6, 5 speed, 2wd regular cab, long bed. Got 18 mpg on the highway easy and was oddly fun to drive even though slow. Hmm.. now I want a short bed 73 F100 inline six Atkinson tuned with a modern manual swap with a very tall rear end (and higher flow oil pump for better low rpm main bearing protection). Lowered, of course. Might get 25+ mpg if driven right. The Slowville Lugger.
Very nice! I’m sure this is using the high test gas. My 74 trans am with 3.73s and 295/50/15s got 10-11 mpg on the highway that was with a pretty well built 455, I’ve got a stock 7.6:1 400 in it now and only get 6-7mpg going back and forth to work but live on a pretty steep mountain. I’m sure with a higher gear and a higher compression engine I’ll get better mpg but I haven’t been much worried about it.
Sometimes more power means better mileage when the motor isn’t having to work as hard to move it. I get better mileage on my 99 f350 powerstroke with some slightly bigger injectors and a t6 tuner it’s at around 400 horse and I get 16 mpg, stock was 13-14.
I've been accused of bullshitting myself on MPG. I had a '70 Bonneville 4 door hardtop with the 370 horse 455 with 3.23 rear and a Quadrajet. The carb confused me, but I knew a mechanic who was straight-up magic fingers with them, and with some basic tuning, the 4,100 pound car got 17.2 or 3 MPG on the freeway, flat land A/C off. On didn't make much difference either. Since the '70s, lots of random sheeple have been conditioned to spout off about "Big American cars/barges that get 9MPG" as if blind ignorance is a national pastime.
I averaged about a third of the mpg with any of my Mopars, even the small block ones, than I did with a diesel Dodge 2500. Really bad in California with the price being 1.50 more than than the average of the rest of the country..
I had a 67 Satellite with 426 Hemi/ 4/speed and 3.54 gears as a daily driver it wasn't bad on gas and if I was on an interstate where I could run 120 mph which was where the four primary barrels were wide open it gave 17 mpg. I've been called a liar, but I tell them I can do basic math, really.
You would break the internet if you drag raced a cyber truck pulling a trailer with a car and the charger pulling a trailer with a car and beat it! Then did a road trip pulling the same trailers.
