They need to upgrade US-75 to interstate standards from Tulsa to the Texas border and slap the I-45 badge on it like Texas did many years ago between Dallas and Houston. That was the original plan in the begining but Oklahoma said no. That's why US-75 from Dallas to the state line is interstate ready and waiting for that I-45 badge whenever Oklahoma is ready for the connection.
I literally just passed through there hours ago on my road trip and saw the very nice upgrades in progress near the Choctaw Casino. To my surprise I saw predominantly Texas and Missouri plates (and lots of Missouri Tigers) through-traveling between the two states and not a lot of Oklahoma locals, at least near that casino. I just thought of that stretch of US 75/69 being future I-45 and thoroughly agree with this comment. Those wide transverse gaps in much of the pavement could definitely use a face-lift too.
That’s not gonna happen. Many of the towns along the route (Particularly Atoka, OK) have lobbied the Oklahoma State Government hard to prevent them from being bypassed.
@@highway2heaven91 It's going to happen either gradually, or all at once. Eventually the traffic going through the towns will destroy their quality of life.
I live in Sapulpa near Tulsa and I’ve seen part of The Gilcrease Expressway built as well as the new Kickapoo Turnpike being built. I’m a huge nerd about cartography and geography. I love your channel and vids. Keep up the great work.
Oklahoma road planners have ALWAYS favored OKC over Tulsa. And why is it that Oklahoma insists on motorists having to pay for ANY new roads? You can drive from the Red River north to the Kansas state line, passing from south of OKC to north of OKC, WITHOUT PAYING A DIME: I-35 is a free road. Similarly, you can drive from the Arkansas border west to the Texas state line, passing right thru OKC, WITHOUT PAYING A DIME: I-40 is a free road. Not so for Tulsa. You can hardly get into or out of Tulsa without having to pay to use some toll road >>> Turner Tpk, Will Rogers Tpk, Muskogee Tpk, Creek Tpk, Cimarron Tpk., Indian Nation Tpk, and the Cherokee Tpk. How is this favoritism toward OKC and discrimination against Tulsa, even allowed? Furthermore ... Oklahomans seem not to be bothered AT ALL by having to pay for their new divided highways. I guess they think that other states are just like Oklahoma. Well, that is not the case. Oklahoma has a higher rate of toll roads per land area than any other state in the nation. In Texas, except for a handful of short urban turnpikes, Texas has no, ABSOLUTELY NO, long toll roads. Oklahomans also seem gullible to the stupid "pike pass" scam. You get a small discount for your pike pass, bought yearly, but you still have to pay a fee for the toll roads you use, IN ADDITION TO THE FEE FOR THE YEARLY PIKE PASS. The best thing that Oklahomans can do is elect politicians who will COMPLETELY DISMANTLE the Oklahoma turnpike authority and make all new roads FREE, including existing turnpikes. Right now, it's as if Oklahoma has no money of its own to spend on road construction, so they resort to, literally, highway robbery, allowing some special interest group to get rich. Dreadful politicians, and a gullible, SUPER COMPLIANT voting public.
I was born and raised in Tulsa and now have lived in Norman for many years. The thing that people always forget about Oklahoma is just how young the state is. It’s the 5th newest state in the country at just over 100 years old. Much of the infrastructure was completed here when the state’s population was much smaller and now (especially in OKC) it’s booming. These upgrades, especially the ones around OKC/Norman and the 44 widening are greatly needed
Absolutely plus when they did the turnpike most of the them didn't even go into Tulsa or OKC they went around town in the sticks but once they had enough bonds to expand into the cities and younger the current system. So for Oklahoma they took a big risk 60 plus years ago when the state was about 40 years old and it's tested time and all the elements of weather to have a really dependable system of tolls and expressways. I just hope when push comes to shove they expand westward especially once 27 crosses over to the panhandle have at least a super 2 turnpike from 27 to 40 or diagonally to OKC. But that's still what 20 years later.
Oklahoma road planners have ALWAYS favored OKC over Tulsa. And why is it that Oklahoma insists on motorists having to pay for ANY new roads? You can drive from the Red River north to the Kansas state line, passing from south of OKC to north of OKC, WITHOUT PAYING A DIME: I-35 is a free road. Similarly, you can drive from the Arkansas border west to the Texas state line, passing right thru OKC, WITHOUT PAYING A DIME: I-40 is a free road. Not so for Tulsa. You can hardly get into or out of Tulsa without having to pay to use some toll road >>> Turner Tpk, Will Rogers Tpk, Muskogee Tpk, Creek Tpk, Cimarron Tpk., Indian Nation Tpk, and the Cherokee Tpk. How is this favoritism toward OKC and discrimination against Tulsa, even allowed? Furthermore ... Oklahomans seem not to be bothered AT ALL by having to pay for their new divided highways. I guess they think that other states are just like Oklahoma. Well, that is not the case. Oklahoma has a higher rate of toll roads per land area than any other state in the nation. In Texas, except for a handful of short urban turnpikes, Texas has no, ABSOLUTELY NO, long toll roads. Oklahomans also seem gullible to the stupid "pike pass" scam. You get a small discount for your pike pass, bought yearly, but you still have to pay a fee for the toll roads you use, IN ADDITION TO THE FEE FOR THE YEARLY PIKE PASS. The best thing that Oklahomans can do is elect politicians who will COMPLETELY DISMANTLE the Oklahoma turnpike authority and make all new roads FREE, including existing turnpikes. Right now, it's as if Oklahoma has no money of its own to spend on road construction, so they resort to, literally, highway robbery, allowing some special interest group to get rich. Dreadful politicians, and a gullible, SUPER COMPLIANT voting public.
@@kenthompson5723your a idiot, there are lots of roads in okc that are payed. Also notice how it’s all turnpikes you mentioned, the turnpikes in OKC are payed besides kilpatrick.
Nebraska is a young state too and Omaha is growing at a much higher rate than much more car centric Tulsa and OKC. In Omaha we don't see highways as the life and blood of our city like OK cities. We care more about the walkability and pedestrian aspect and in turn Omaha is much more vibrant than OK cities. Omaha is not even thinking of the highway nonsense
The okc to tulsa city pairing would be perfect for intercity/highspeed rail especially if Texas central or dallas-austin ever gets built. Alas, they're gonna pour billions into suburban highways to nowhere and yet fail to meaningfully reduce drive time from okc to tulsa.
@highway2heaven91 Partly because there is no hsr system of scale to compare to. The coasts are perfect to actually invest in hsr, as you have several major cities in what is a straight line. Only thing is, no investment will be made until things got so crowded at the coasts that it becomes impossible to widen the highways
@@Demopans5990 It’s not just that but also the fact that many Oklahomans are unfamiliar with HSR and that it’s a red state and Republicans are known for strongly opposing HSR. Most HSR projects in states such as WI and FL have been shot down by Republican governors. Even in Texas there are large numbers of Republicans trying to get Texas Central cancelled.
Amtrak has said more or less they will never build a connection between OKC & Tulsa even if they were flush with cash b/c they don’t think they’d make a profit. As a neighboring Arkansan it’s immensely frustrating, b/c if they aren’t willing to connect 2 cities with millions of people over a short distance with flat land, what hope do we have when our cities are smaller, more spread out, & we have mountainous terrain.
@carlstevens781 Well, never say never. Microsoft said Windows 10 would be the last edition of windows ever, now look. The US Patent Office said everything that could be invented has been invented in one the 1950s. People thought the US President would never involve himself with workers unions, but look what happened this year. Idk, anything could happen.
Oklahoma should focus on upgrading the route between Kansas City and Dallas. This would do wonders for redistributing truck through-traffic away from the metros.
Agreed, Omaha is in the same league as OKC and Tulsa. We have much less highways and are not planning on building more. We have much less suburbs and the city core is more dense than OK cities. We are more walkable and more vibrant and that's why Omaha is growing at a faster rate
THERE ARE NO EXIT SIGNS ALONG I-44 IN ORDER FOR YOU TO STAY ON I-44!!! That defeats the purpose of an Interstate! Exits are ONLY for EXITING HIGHWAYS!!! DO YOUR RESEARCH FOR ONCE OR LOOK AT THE INTERSTATE SIGNS AND STOP SPREADING LIES!!!
I feel like the traffic isn’t bad enough to warrant such interstate expansion. I understand the state might want to get ahead of the population growth, but even then, OKC proper has only grown 100k in the past 10 years.
Oklahoma doesn’t have the growth drivers Texas North Carolina and Florida have. Frankly I’d concentrate on getting a complete OKC loop in place, and rebuilding just about ALL of 44. Six lanes with total reconstruction, widening to outside, and vertical curvature corrections. Essentially a 85 mph design speed, with trucks kept to the right, with a 70 mph limit. This type of rebuild is decades overdue.
@@davestewart2067the thing with Oklahoma is that they have 35 going right thru the middle of the state there concern isn't the amount of people moving into the state causing traffic it's the amount of trucks especially if Texas gets a saying in expanding 27 and it's just a rumor right now but 44 as another to Mexico expressway with near direct connection to KC STL and Chicago all via 44 and dividing into 49 in Joplin to KC 70 55 and 64 in STL to Chicago and other cities around these corridors.
@@twostop6895 it's not about the people moving in. It's about the truck traffic passing by that have to go thru Oklahoma to go to Missouri Kansas and due north to Canada you guys literally have I-35 in the smack middle and you say it's nothing 🤣. Plus people moving into Oklahoma are those who saw Texas and said damn too expensive.
As someone who lives in Oklahoma, I think many of these projects are very necessary. I drive frequently between Tulsa and OKC, and the turnpike there is long overdue for expansion. The extra and widened lanes are necessary for safety purposes. Also, having previously lived in Norman, the East-West Connector is going to be extremely valuable. So many people live between Norman and Downtown OKC and there is not a single major artery between Norman and I-240.
That's because OKC and Tulsa are so high car centric. If they focused on making their cities more walkable like Omaha and Lincoln, there would be no need in spending a lot of money building highways
I've been living 10 miles away from 412, 10 miles away from Highway 20, and about 18 miles from the 412/69 interchange all my life. You can only imagine when I heard the news about Oklahoma and Arkansas wanting to upgrade 412 to an interstate and rename it I-42. I-44, I-40, and I-49 are the closest interstates near me, but all of those are 1+ hours away from me. Then, later on, Oklahoma also wants to upgrade Highway 69/75 to an Interstate too and eventually call it I-45, but mainly from I-40 South. While it doesn't make me as excited as I could have been, I still am excited because I know that it will eventually be done near me too. They just don't plan on that right now because of Muskogee denying the Highway 69 detour.
I worked in OKC for 3 weeks between Thanksgiving and Xmas. I was shocked at the amount of expressways. 35 was a little slow in the construction areas and 235 was busy in the morning. Otherwise the highways were large and moved very quickly. The surface roads are what need help. They are very narrow and don't have turn lanes at intersections. Plus it rained one time (it was a pretty big storm) and many of the surface roads flooded! OKC might be growing but it is not a large city by any means. They have a Bass Pro Shop downtown! With tourist signage! I was shocked.
We don't even have that many interstates/highways compared to other cities of similar sizes. MAPS4 is focusing on streets, we are working on those issues lol. And Tourism is a growing industry here in OKC.
We don't even have that many interstates/highways compared to other cities of similar sizes. MAPS4 is focusing on streets, we are working on those issues lol. And Tourism is a growing industry here in OKC.
@@wayne7332Um no, Omaha is around the size of OKC and Tulsa and we have much less highways. Omaha is a much more walkable city and more vibrant than OK cities. Parking lots are not vibrancy
Actually, all of the roads you mention are to be built by the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority which is a separate entity from Oklahoma DOT. The portions around the Norman area are heavily contested, and the Governor has ordered an audit of OTA. Many existing toll roads in Oklahoma do not generate enough revenue currently to pay for their own upkeep and are subsidized by the Turner and Will Rogers turnpikes (I-44 from the Missouri line to Oklahoma City) which are the 2 busiest toll roads in the state and definitely need the added lanes.
@henrystowe6217 I remember the HE Bailey turnpike from long before I-44 was extended down it. At one time, I-44 ended at its junction with I-35. I grew up in Tulsa, and all of my grandparents lived in Altus.
@@henrystowe6217 A tram can't fix parkinglot infested core with too much sprawl. Omaha is building its own tram as well yet the core is more walkable and more dense
@agbook2007 every state seems to be trying to jump on the toll road bandwagon. In Texas, new roads, and even added lanes to existing highways are being built with tolls (toll express lanes on existing Texas highways.)
I was through Oklahoma last June and was surprised to find that the speed limit was 80 on some newly upgraded segments of I 44 between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. 👍🏼
@@bobflatman278 Right, but the traffic count down that way is much lower. Hence, it won't need upgrading in the foreseeable future and, therefore, won't get the kinds of improvements that someone thinks are required for 80 MPH. Even as is, it's a quick drive. Every couple of years I find myself driving between I 44 in Texas and either the Kansas Turnpike or I 44 in Missouri, and it always amazes me how quickly one can cross Oklahoma.
Outside OKC city limits it's Moore Norman Bridge Creek El Reno all are south and west of town and in and around 35 and 44. If you think about how fast it's grown in such areas Bridge Creek was just a small rural town 25 years ago right around the time of the 1999 tornado that hit such area now it sprawled pretty fast. Even though the numbers of the town are super small less than 1000 they went from just shy of 40 people in 2000 to almost 1000 in 2020 thats over 800 percent growth and still a distance from OKC. Another is Chickasha also on 44 it's about two or three counties away from OKC but it's been steadily and slowly growing from 14k in 2000 to 16k now.
They do need several auxiliary routes (triple digit) interstate highways in Oklahoma, such as I-140 on east side of Oklahoma City, I-144 from I-44 from Tulsa to I-40 in Webbers Falls Oklahoma, via Muskogee, and they almost did it in the 1960s, I-344 for Gilcrease Freeway in west side of Tulsa, and I-644 for Creek Turnpike to loop around the south and east side of Tulsa.
The portion of the loop around the airport is called the Tri-City Connector because it will connect to I-44 about 3 1/2 miles north of the Canadian River crossing. The communities immediately on the other side of the river are collectively known as the Tri-Cities - Newcastle, Blanchard, and Tuttle. (Smack in the middle of these three is the rapidly growing community of Bridge Creek.)
Great Video, Have been wanting to hear your side of this for a while one thing not mentioned however is that they are planning on Expanding I35 to 3 or more lanes from to Red River all the way to I40, otherwise great video
Sooner or later (and no pun intended), Interstate 45 will be needed in Oklahoma. Period. Dallas and Tulsa have needed to be directly connected for decades. Folks in OK City are going to have to get out of the way now. Tulsa is also a major city, and the benefits of having another corridor to relieve I-35 will greatly help Oklahoma in the movement of goods for years to come. It's time.
Not to mention US-69 truck route between Big Cabin, OK and Durant, OK They should also overhaul and streamline the interchange of US-69 and Indian Nation Turnpike (INT)
That's exactly what I was thinking. AASHTO really did themselves up with this one. In my opinion, an I-444 designation (forget the unsigned one in Tulsa) stretching from the 44/35 interchange in NE OKC to around the JKT, and to SH-152 then eventually the SH-152/I-44 interchange would've made the most sense, considering most travelling coast to coast use the JKT already as a quicker bypass route around the city, instead of otherwise using I-44, which would even help with decongesting the inner city freeways by signing as such.
I am surprised by the "3" prefix for the new interstate designations, especially the 344, since they seem to loop or connect rather than spur. There are some other examples of this type of numbering (including Augusta, GA) that are due to extensions of spur routes that became loops. It seems that there is less focus on numbering consistency than originally planned. Next thing you know, there'll be an I-99 in the middle of Pennsylvania or something! I really enjoy your content; thank you!
ODOT and OTA have kind of designated the "3" spur prefix to go with the state's turnpike system, other examples include OK-301 (Chickasaw Turnpike), OK-312 (Cimmaron Turnpike Spur), and lets forget OK-325, it predates the greater turnpike system, OK-344 (Gilcrease Turnpike), OK-351 (Muskogee Turnpike), OK-364 (Creek Turnpike), and OK-375 (Indian Nation Turnpike). It'll be interesting to see how long this current system holds up for them, considering how there is an OK-344 in the Tulsa area for the Gilcrease Turnpike, and soon will be I-344 in Oklahoma City for the JKT.
US-412 will upgrade to the interstate highway from I-35 near Perry Oklahoma to I-49 in Springdale Arkansas. It might be I-42, I-46, I-48, or I-52 for 189 miles.
At 3:06 of this video about Oklahoma freeways and turnpikes you show an old picture of the NE 145th exit from I-5 in Seattle, Washington. I forgot how beautiful and green that exit was before they bulldozed the trees to make room for the Sound Transit electric passenger train.
Oklahoma is doing the right thing. Freeway construction is slower in busier freeways, and it reduces the freeway's capacity while it's being done. You wait to upgrade your freeways until you actually need the extra capacity, you waited way too long.
It seems like they wanna alleviate i35/i40 interstate travel but in a way that helps locally. Making a better highway that connects Tulsa to OKC is a good place along with connecting the exurbs to other exurbs. But the ring roads will only work if development picks up around those highways at the same time. If anything it would be more reasonable to bolden and update the original highways. I am going based off what Austin has done which ended up backfiring. But only time will tell for these roads after they are built. Maybe it's different in OKC. I know the Raleigh area is fairing well with development around 540 as an example.
I literally just drove through the East Tulsa project a few hours ago on my cross-country road trip. All I saw was a new interchange in the works but I'm sure all that'll be different very soon. Thanks for the very timely insight.
The section of the Gilcrease still to be built has been proposed on ODOT maps since the late-1950s. Meanwhile all those OKC extensions may backfire: I'll be able to go from Tulsa to south-central Oklahoma WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH OKLAHOMA CITY AT ALL! I for one can't wait.
If we spread $5 billion across 15 years and Oklahoma’s 4 million person population, that’s only $83 per person per year. For what they’re doing, the project sounds pretty cheap.
As someone currently living in Norman. The routes around OKC are to help alleviate traffic in and around downtown. Many people travel between Tulsa and DFW using 44 and 35. Creating that bypass will certainly help with some traffic. Another reason the dates are TBD is because of the process the OTA has to go through. OTA has to buy the property before they can build on it, and there is plenty of backlash to this idea. Only time will tell how successful this project will be.
They will not alleviate traffic, they will cause more traffic because of induced demand. Take it from someone in Atlanta, building and widening roads does not solve traffic, it makes it worse.
Your video was quite informative. Thank you. My only quibble with your presentation is your reference to these proposed roads as "freeways". Almost certainly, they will be toll roads, as the Kickapoo is now. Oklahoma road planners have ALWAYS favored OKC over Tulsa. And why is it that Oklahoma insists on motorists having to pay for ANY new roads? You can drive from the Red River north to the Kansas state line, passing from south of OKC to north of OKC, WITHOUT PAYING A DIME: I-35 is a free road. Similarly, you can drive from the Arkansas border west to the Texas state line, passing right thru OKC, WITHOUT PAYING A DIME: I-40 is a free road. Not so for Tulsa. You can hardly get into or out of Tulsa without having to pay to use some toll road >>> Turner Tpk, Will Rogers Tpk, Muskogee Tpk, Creek Tpk, Cimarron Tpk., Indian Nation Tpk, and the Cherokee Tpk. How is this favoritism toward OKC and discrimination against Tulsa, even allowed? Furthermore ... Oklahomans seem not to be bothered AT ALL by having to pay for their new divided highways. I guess they think that other states are just like Oklahoma. Well, that is not the case. Oklahoma has a higher rate of toll roads per land area than any other state in the nation. In Texas, except for a handful of short urban turnpikes, Texas has no, ABSOLUTELY NO, long toll roads. Oklahomans also seem gullible to the stupid "pike pass" scam. You get a small discount for your pike pass, bought yearly, but you still have to pay a fee for the toll roads you use, IN ADDITION TO THE FEE FOR THE YEARLY PIKE PASS. The best thing that Oklahomans can do is elect politicians who will COMPLETELY DISMANTLE the Oklahoma turnpike authority and make all new roads FREE, including existing turnpikes. Right now, it's as if Oklahoma has no money of its own to spend on road construction, so they resort to, literally, highway robbery, allowing some special interest group to get rich. Dreadful politicians, and a gullible, SUPER COMPLIANT voting public.
A lot of our infrastructure is from the state beginnings. Those southern turnpikes won’t get built because they’re plowing through valuable land since the Moore-Norman corridor has exploded. Kickapoo was made to connect 44 to 40 w/o cutting through the city. So folks in Shawnee don’t have to pass the city to take it, nor take slower state roads. Kilpatrick was expanded to finally connect to the 152 terminus back in the 2010s.
There's a bit of a problem with the OKC parts of this proposal. OKC citizens have, for quite a few years, been voting for sales tax increases to fund numerous worthwhile downtown renewal projects. One of them eas to MOVE Interstate 40 several blocks south of its original alignment, remediate the contaminated parcels within its former footprint, and build thereon a sports arena, convention center, amazing city park, and other facilities. another measure funded the OKC streetcar to serve those new amenities and help intensify downtown. There is quite a bit of adaptive reuse and new construction in neighborhoods like Automobile Alley and Midtown. The suburbs may not get everything they want and this grand plan may end up getting scaled back. One can only hope.
Instead of spending $5Billion on sprawl-inducing highways, why not invest in rail? The existing Amtrak Heartland Flyer from OKC to Fort Worth saw record ridership in 2023, up 15% from the year before. Adding a couple more trains per day and expanding the route to Tulsa and/or Witchita would take more vehicles off the road entirely, improving traffic and adding convenience!
Suburban sprawl is undesirable. Omaha is growing faster than parkinglots and freeways everywhere OKC. Omaha doesn't have to build expensive highways that only lead the city into debt. Because Omaha is a much more walkable and more dense city than OKC
@Electrodexify The freeways are Turnpikes/toll roads. It's an agency that's separate from the public road system. Downtown OKC is very walkable. I think it's a much nicer place than Omaha. Omaha isn't a bad city, just smaller than OKC.
@@marcbayarea1980 Smaller because it's more dense. Your OK cities don't even rank on the top 10 lists in many ranks. OK has plenty to do with their poor education and crime. Omaha is much more walkable than parking lot infested OKC. I've visited Tulsa many times, it's a sad city with so many parking lots. While I've never visited OKC, several people have told me OKC is a much more hardcore car centric city than Tulsa. The south only knows how to build sprawl, highways everywhere and parking lot strip mall galore
@Electrodexify If you've never visited OKC, then I suggest you save your comments about it until you do. I'm not fond of Tulsa, and OKC is nothing like it. I've lived in San Francisco, NYC, Chicago, Denver, Tampa, Houston, Phoenix, Portland, and Hawaii. I could live anywhere. I think OKC is the most underated city in this country. Not only is it walkable, but it's safe, affordable, and has excellent neighborhoods. The restaurant scene is also amazing. It's one of the fastest growing cities in the country, and because Oklahoma does such a great job building up the freeway network, residents rarely get stuck in traffic. OKC also has one of the lowest homeless rates of any city, let alone a city of over 700,000. Come visit. I promise you'll love it too.
@Electrodexify And yes. It's very car centric. That's something that I personally love because it keeps the crime out of most areas. You need a car in the Omaha metro area, too. I'm older now, so living in dense neighborhoods got unattractive fast for me. I don't want to deal with crime and homeless.
It's SH 74 not US 74 lol used to be on May Avenue but you don't SH 74 south until you get south of Norman. Even Shields in OKC is no longer highway marked then Lindsay street going east of I 35 was once SH 74A.
Oklahoman officials might be looking at spillover development ftom Texas as home prices/kand values drive out a population percentage? In my state, I know of two bypass projects. First: Columbus, Ohio, rebuilt the interchanges of its I-270 bypass in anticipation of I-73 coming through the area. Officials have long wanted to add another bypass ring, but they only want to go out 5 miles from the current bypass location. This is the area of heavy residential and commercial growth. The plan is infeasible. A comprehensive plan would put the bypass much farther out by connecting the surrounding county seat cities. That plan is infeasible in its cost and project length. Columbus developers are spending their finances on making the city more densly populated rather than keep pushing city limits further out though they are still extending the city's borders. Second: Dayton, Ohio area leaders campaigned and got funding for I-675 despite protes from surrounding cities and counties. The east & southeast sections were completed in the mid-1980s after being planned since mid-1970s. Then, development meant for Dayton went to the suburbs because of cheaper land availability, taxes, incentives, etc. Dayton area officials try every so often to get the state government to upgrade a state route to an interstate status. Thankfully, the State of Ohio has rejected all requests. Surrounding counties and other municipalities are on record as not supporting the I-675 bypass completion.
If they want to be true to the name “Access Oklahoma” then they would need to provide better public transit so that not everyone would need to drive an individual vehicle through the city causing traffic. I recently moved from Broken Arrow to Tulsa and there’s literally parts of the suburbs that don’t have ANY bus access and no sidewalks thous making everyone buy a big bulky car and flooding the roads full of traffic. I also find it quite pathetic that with all the railroad tracks they have that they don’t have ANY passenger rail service because the tracks literally go through essential locations throughout the metro area like downtown, midtown, woodland hills, catoosa, and even the suburbs like Broken Arrow, Sand Springs, and Sapulpa (I’m sure the same could be said about OKC as well) I think Oklahoma would be better off with better public transit rather than just building/expanding freeways. Also Amtrak should run service on the Loveland through Tulsa all the way to St. Louis instead of just stopping at OKC because I would love to take a train to see my family in Texas rather than drive 7-8 hours or book a plane ticket.
@@maroon9273 I respectfully disagree. Freeways have a purpose as more than a bus route. In my opinion it would behoove places that have public transit to incentivize people to use that when possible.
The Kickapoo Turnpike should NOT be designated as I-335 simply because it doesn't connect to I-35. Take the unsigned I-444 in Tulsa and bring that designation to this road.
@888jerm888 Well, it's too late now, but I will say this: There will eventually be a southern extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike from its current terminus at I-40 around to the east side of Norman and then catch I-35 south of Norman. That's the reason for the new designation.
The Will Rodgers Turnpike between Tulsa and the Missouri state line has sucked for years. Two lanes each way with a concrete barrier. Makes you feel claustrophobic in a part of the country where you should not feel that way.
It should also be noted that the snippet of I-44 you mentioned that's east of Tulsa, there's a quirk in that highway that needs to be corrected. The Creek Turnpike needs to be truncated at U.S. 412 / I-44, while the latter's mile marker numbering needs to be consistent throughout, necessitating the correction of a reference from the Creek's previous numbering causing the disruption. I-44 actually has TWO Exit 35s in existence at the moment. The one which should matter is located in Lawton, whereas the one east of Tulsa needs to be changed to I-44 MM 243. It's just the right thing to do.
The way I see it, the problem is the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority. They managed the I-44 turnpike until it was paid off, then kept building unprofitable turnpikes around the state to justify their continued existence. Now I-44 pretty much subsidizes all these other routes that not many people use. I get that they may be trying to get ahead of future growth, but the state should really fix up what they already have first. I-35 and I-44 could be widened in OKC first before resorting to more toll roads that connect nothing.
I-35 between I-40 and I-44 is currently being widened to a 6 lane facility. I can’t personally see the need for more than 6 lanes in both directions any time soon.
ODOT doesn’t think they have enough right of way to widen I-35 to what it needs to be now and in the future, so OTA is building alternatives to get ppl off I-35. They hope multiple options work better than the super highways in Texas and the east coast.
Year of our lord 2023 and statesmen, engineers, and the public still believe that suburban sprawl and interstate highways are the best (nay, only) way to get people and freight around?
@@glennhibben7757 "The majority of people" in places like the US have no goddamn choice. It's get a car or live poor, waste time getting places out of car-centric cul-de-sac neighborhoods, struggle getting a job, fight a losing battle with a bus that comes once an hour if you're lucky. Enormous swathes of NA cities are nothing but single-family housing without even a good corner store to quickly get eggs from when you find you're out. It's not that people 'want' to live that lifestyle, it's that most of them don't know any different from their first memories until today it's all a large percentage know.
The I-335 Designation is planned in the future to run from Kickapoo Turnpike’s northern terminus at I-44 to the southern terminus of the Southern-Extension turnpike near Purcell, creating that full eastern bypass
@@Grannyok3 may have missed the “future” part in which case thanks for the correction. At least it’s correct though whereas here in NC they redesigned a state highway to I-885 even though there are no plans for it to touch I-85 a second time.
@@KryptekTomahawk It’s all good. In my estimation, AASHTO usually only approves these designations when they connect to the parent interstates, in any case I-335 would have probably been OK-335 first, until the southern extension was complete, but I guess they approved it this tike
That was an old plan, they just updated the plan in September 2023 to use the I-344 & I-335 designations. The freeway portion of SH-152 will be designated as I-240, though.
The AASHTO has already approved the I-240 extension plan on the Kickapoo. Even if they wanted to change their mind now, they can’t do it, _without having to jump through massive hurdles._ The designation has _already been approved,_ so I don’t know where you got your information on that.
@@rileysmith9843 SourcePCs is correct. The I-344 & I-335 designations were the final design. The I-240 "beltway" plan was shot down due to differences in roadway funding and otherwise huge overlaps with other main freeways, making it not a true beltway. The new plan was finally approved by AASHTO in the Fall meeting. View here: transportation.org/route/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2023/12/Final_Report_USRN_Fall_2023_R_1.pdf
I regularly travel KC to Dallas and back using I-35. Traveling through OKC is awkward and at times, dangerous. It doesn't appear that any of these proposals will help that route.
Not to mention the reason why nothing has been started yet is due To anti freeway groups. That don't want their houses to be torn down Because they like living in the country.
If ODOT is so concerned about traffic on I35 (a real problem, the 2lane portion east of downton from Reno to 63rd is the same width as originally built) they should widen it. theyre rebuildin the i35/44 interchange on the NE side of the city tho
They are in the process of widening that section between I-40 and I-44 currently from a 4 lane facility to 6 lanes, and revitalizing the frontage roads as well
When Oklahomans refer to the Tri Cities, they're usually referring to Tuttle, Newcastle and Blanchard, but this proposed highway doesn't get close enough to these 3 cities for that to be the case.
0:32 go around low density??? Or just bulldoze the least valuable (red-lined) urban areas? Or since its OK, will they include the 5 tribes (or just bulldoze their way through)?
Beav. I live 2 blocks from the Kilpatrick Turnpike. I believe you are wrong about the AASHTO designation in OKC. The Kickapoo and Kilpatrick Turnpikes, together with OK SR 152 ( the Airport Expressway) are expected to be designated along with the existing portion as Interstate 240. This would give OKC the longest circumferential highway in the US, beating Cincinnati's Interstste 275 by 10 miles. They are now working on the one thing left to make this a realty, which is to reconfigure the 40/240 intersection east of town to add an exit ramp from 40 east to 240 west, and an exit ramp from 240 east to 40 west.
The I-240 designation for the whole loop was shut down by AASHTO due to the difference in funding used for the existing interstates and the turnpikes, and the sheer amount of “follow route” mileage along existing interstate miles.
That was an old plan, they just updated the plan in September 2023 to use the I-344 & I-335 designations. The freeway portion of SH-152 will be designated as I-240, though.
@@SourcePCs it is going to cause a LOT of confusion. Now you'll have 5 interstates instead of 3. Surely to goodness we have not become THAT dumb in this country where we cannot follow a short duplex of 40 and 240 and 44 and 240 for a total combined distance of less than 10 miles.
Ring roads (because that's what they are called) will always be needed and are good. Interchanges should be at closest 5 mlies apart. Very stupid to put them any closer.
If they want to be true to the name “Access Oklahoma” then they would need to provide better public transit so that not everyone would need to drive an individual vehicle through the city causing traffic. I recently moved from Broken Arrow to Tulsa and there’s literally parts of the suburbs that don’t have ANY bus access and no sidewalks thous making everyone buy a big bulky car and flooding the roads full of traffic. I also find it quite pathetic that with all the railroad tracks they have that they don’t have ANY passenger rail service because the tracks literally go through essential locations throughout the metro area like downtown, midtown, woodland hills, catoosa, and even the suburbs like Broken Arrow, Sand Springs, and Sapulpa (I’m sure the same could be said about OKC as well) I think Oklahoma would be better off with better public transit rather than just building/expanding freeways. Also Amtrak should run service on the Loveland through Tulsa all the way to St. Louis instead of just stopping at OKC because I would love to take a train to see my family in Texas rather than drive 7-8 hours or book a plane ticket :(
Yeah, but I live in the US. People forget I'm still just a kid making these videos, and yeah I do have a high knowledge abt US geography, but I don't have that high of a knowledge abt the geography of other countries, so I don't wanna be making educational videos abt areas I myself don't know too much about if that makes sense
Hi I'm from Switzerland, idk why this video appeared in my feed but I feel so bad for this city, these projetcs are the pinnacle of stupidity and ignorance. It's so depressing that parts of the world are still doing this kind of thing, it's so backwards!
1.) State is bigger than you think (i.e costly) 2.) Would the public actually use it? (e.g Streetcars in OKC) 3.) Would it actually alleviate traffic in a way that is worth the cost?
Anyone traveling between Tulsa and OKC understand the need to upgrade this road. Not sure about the need to connect the Kickapoo to anything as it starts and stops in the middle of nothing
Oklahoma has intense little brother syndrome towards Texas. They’d rather strive to be more like overbuilt and congested Dallas than actually build an efficient transportation system, like rail.
Clearly you do not understand how turnpikes work in Oklahoma. Oklahoma has to always have bonds in place that ALL turnpikes are paying towards or all the turnpikes must quit collecting tolls and maintenance is then turned over to DOT...so OTA must continuously have new projects to sell bonds for to keep the turnpike system intact. After this project ends, there will be another project.
Interstate 45 is needed. When you ask will the boom work? As far as widening lanes or making highways bigger. No widened doesn’t help much. LA, Phoenix, and multiple Texas cities including Houston have the biggest freeways yet the worst traffic. Every 5 years they make more lanes and traffic gets worse. Traffic engineers have known this since the 60s. It’s called Induced demand. The greatest urban planned cities in America and the world create railway transport and highways. Trains take up far less spaces and infrastructure yet move way higher numbers of people at higher speeds. While being cheaper to travel on and less subsidized by taxes compared to highways and roads. When cities like LA, New York, Seattle keep explaining their rail. More drivers double think and take the train instead because of its inherently cheaper cost and ease of travel. When this happens less people drive and this makes life better for the people who still choose driving. Creating less traffic and less cars wearing down the road as much
I don't know the last time you were in NYC but traffic is not any better and the Metro/trains are extremely dangerous now a days as compared to a few years ago. Wider roads not working is a fair point but more roads do help alleviate if they provide alternative routes.
