Titans won't stop licking corporate boots. I have worked multiple technical jobs. A few years ago I had a job in IT working for a Cisco partner. I found a way to semi automate one of my tasks and wrote a script for it. Ended up saving incredible amount of time, shared it with coworkers and ended up saving the company several million $, aside from this I made the company berween 2 -3 million every year just in completed projects. My best year I competed a 2 million dollar project for a hospital and ended up grossing the company 5.4 million that year... do you think I ever saw any of those Profits? Nope despite asking for raises I never saw anything for my work. My boss drives a new vehicle every few months. And some of the office staff (sales) see huge bonuses every year... but not us lowly engineers. I work for myself now much more enjoyable and I'm not making some a-hole boss tons of money while I get the scraps.
Engineers know things, materials and stuff, their job is to convince things to do what they want. But things, materials and stuff don’t write checks. Sales people know people, their job is to convince people to do what they want. And checks are not written by a perfectly engineered part but by a person. The social skills are not there for engineers to get the maximum possible salary. I come from a engineers background and I have seen it happen multiple times. A engineer tries to get paid more money because they did a good job and made the company a lot of money. They tell the person that writes the check why and try to convince that person they deserve a raise. It’s not given. A sales person knows absolutely perfectly how to use flattery and compliments, how to use body language and all kinds of magical social skills the average engineer doesn’t even know exists. Without even realising what happens, the boss person just grants the wishes of the sales person. Because it’s very very hard to ignore feelings, but it’s much more easy to ignore facts. And engineers ask for a raise with facts and logic.
1:52 here is my problem. I agree with the job security, but I've made 7 figure profit increases for a boss and received less than 0.1% of that as a bonus. The problem is at the top.
Yeah that part was hilarious. The American Way is to exploit as much as you possibly can, so it would be a rare owner who actually passes on extra profit to those who made it happen.
or like in another video barry said if your not happy at ur current job you can always go to a different shop where a boss may actually appreciate your work.
No. "The company won't pay me more" IS fair. Because an entire generation has made their bosses 10s of millions and been laid off months later. NOBODY should save the company money without something ironclad that says they get a fair stake of those savings. Period. Competent people are sick of buying their bosses houses, cars, boats, and vacations, while us 'workers' sit in crappy apartments begging for a raise that KEEPS UP with inflation; god forbid, beats it.
What makes you think you can actually save the time? Until you've demonstrated, at least to yourself, that you actually can save the time and aren't just writing checks with your mouth that your skills can't cash, then why should anyone believe you're worth more? That being said, if you actually have demonstrated the ability, you need to either a) find a new shop, or b) open one yourself. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you get. If I knew people who could machine I'd easily put down money to pay for a machine to open a machine shop business. It sounds like a great market, and something I'd be interested in doing, but finding quality people who actually know things (rather than thinking they know things) isn't easy.
In my experience over the last decade, improved run times, reduced setups and an attitude towards improvement and growth has always netted me a growth in position, responsibility and wage year over year. Seems more like an individual issue, not a problem with the industry.
@@VACatholic I think he's talking from the the perspective of someone who has proven themselves able. I work in IT, not nearly as cool as machining but a lot of what I do is optimization of work flow, automation of maintenance, etc. I do this because it makes my day easier and opens up room for me to work on more break fix tickets. So let's say I am able to free up 40-80 man hours a week worth of maintenance doing this. I might get a 5-10% raise which isn't 1/2 of the difference in savings. I've known people who save MILLIONS for their employers with improved processes and they didn't even get a bonus. I think that's the problem OP is referring to. If we're talking unproven potential, well that's meaningless you haven't actually saved the company any money yet.
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket First, he said "NOBODY". Second, if you're undervalued, you can complain about it and that's fine. But a better use of your time is going and finding a place to work that values you. If your current company doesn't now, and you think they should, then they never will. Things aren't going to improve because you're unhappy. That might not be what you want to hear. You might want to hear that you should get XYZ because you think you earned it. That's just not reality. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. You can either be part of the problem, or part of the solution.
I get what he is saying but there can be other reasons why programs and tooling are not changed. The part might have to go through ppap all over again if changes are made. The cost of doing this could exceed the savings you made. Flight critical aerospace part production is locked down once proven for reasons you may not think of. Good example changing a drill to boost productivity in a titanium part led to microscopic surface cracks that became failure points in the fatigue life of a critical part.
Also the program cutter speed, feeds etc are set up / optimised for that particular m/c or m/c's capability / rigidity etc. to make a consistent quality part.
Boss sharing the savings? great one, I love your jokes, that one just gave me the biggest laugh of the past month. Previous employer had a 45 min cycle on a bunch of fixtured parts..program spent 14 mins air cutting due to a crummy program. I finally arm twist the boss into letting me re-write said program, and saved 14 mins per cycle. My reward : zip, nadda, nothing, zero, I did it again on another job, saved 8 mins on a 22 min cycle, did it again on a 32 min cycle , dropped the time to 20 mins and improved the product too Still the reward : nothing. f. this job, I quit. You need to explain to shop owners unless they share in the savings, no one will make them savings. like my current boss who jumped my pay $1/hr on reducing a cycle time from 45 mins to 35mins
Bro the problem is that most shop owners dont WATCH these videos. When i recorded this, my main intention was to promote a positive work ethic specifically toward continuous improvement. For the sole fact that it will help you LEAVE a crappy job and get a BETTER one
You have to DEMAND a bump in pay, it won't just fall in your lap out of the goodness of their hearts. You have these records and experience under your belt, meaning you have way better job opportunities available. Make a resume, demand a salary that you deem is worthy of your quality of work, then go to your current employer and show them "This job is offering me this much, either give me a pay increase that is higher than this, or I am putting in my 2 weeks notice in today"
@@barrysetzerEXACTLY right! Everyone complaining about working for a boss who “doesn’t get it” is also an employee who “doesn’t get it”. Earn your promotion and promote yourself.
my dudes in shop working 10 or more years in the shop and were always cutting cycle time - 20% or more and no one cares....... thats sad and they now never cutting time down if it run faster and we chill 2 or more hours with nothing, cause we have x time for 1 part and it is calculated for the whole parts and you need 7.5 hours in 1 day. if you have 1 part and it is running 10 mins. but it is calculated for 30 min........ we win cause of the bad boss we have.
That should be rephrased to being "very few". There are instances where, although low by percentage, that started with the owner giving the employees the company as an "employee owned business".
If ANY of the bosses I ever worked for had ever given me just ten percent (10%) of what i´ve eked out of their machines, tools and programmes I´d be sitting at home being comfortably retired with the age of 44. Instead I´m sitting at 2.5k € net salary per month and only got my bankaccount from red to black after over 23 years due to the inheritance from my father´s death, NOT BECAUSE MY BOSS ALL OF A SUDDEN PAID ME MORE DUE TO ME IMPROVING 99% OF HIS CYCLETIMES . As much as I respect you for being a tech-dog, man, dont spew such unrealistic, corporate ass-licking nonsense .
Man i get that. I suppose what i was trying to say is “in a perfect world….” But, in the real world, having the attitude to improve things WILL gain you the respect of your peers, and with luck, lead to better paying jobs later.
Companies would rather pay office staff bonuses than increase your pay. 💰 there is no incentive. Old timer at the shop said “don’t work yourself out of a job”. Once you out preform the old guys.. guess who is gonna try and throw you under the bus 🚌 to young guys I’d say find a trade where you are the boss or where it’s impossible to replace you. Like plumbers or HVAC. Or find a union in millwrights… ect
I worked at a mill several years back, they've been on it almost 18 years before I came. I was a roll inspector and I decided whether the roll should go through or get dumped. I noticed several rolls were being dumped that would have made it to the end, just because the previous inspector didn't want to gamble it, there by leading to a lower production. I worked there and after three weeks I noticed there's a pertern so I stopped dumping most and increased the production. We got production bonuses, but I made enough enemies I had to leave after three more weeks. The production engineer wanted me back but, I don't think he had what it will take to protect me. You can only do as much as you are allowed to do when you are in a group.
If you always try your best you will get more skilled faster. If you are more skilled and your workmates have higher opinions of you, then it will be easier to switch to a better company later.
@@jorsanflo get what? getting a boss half as good as titan is.... that's not a rarity, it's an oddity. jowbaka has a good point but the video is just straight up wrong for 90-99% of shops, that's just not how it works. I've had more LOTO-cutting bosses than bosses who'd give me a raise or a promotion (WITH pay increase, i've had plenty of "promotions") for improving stuff.
@@Jowbaka IF the job your doing is not a life path of ambition you chose rather something you do just to get around their mindset is totally valid... Also there's a limited amount of spots at the top...
As a manager (not of machining) I’ll throw a little advice: Document, document, document. If you can redesign a process that saves the company time / money write it down, how much time, how much money. Bring that to me when we have our review and it gives me ammo to push for more increases from upper management. It also shows that you are about the company as well as yourself. The plus side here is if you document your success and this company can’t or won’t pay what you want you have concrete numbers to show your interviewer. (Edit removed paragraph that should be its own post)
I worked for the smallest and the largest shops out there. I didn't see too much direction to improve. At the largest defense contractor we did have a bonus program if we could cut costs. One time I suggested something. It was really about getting rid of hand loading and unloading a huge cat 50 tool in in 5 axis mill turn. It also machined terrible. Afterwards the mfg engineer gave me a pat on the back for improvement in time and quality. I was only motivated by not wanting to do that crazy op anymore. I did not get any bonus. Oh well. I think another problem is lack of good tools or just scrounging around for good tools. I really think we shop floor guys can suggest improvements but we really need at least some motivation from up above.
While I endorse people trying to optimize programs Ive also witnessed what happens when incompetent egotistical machinists think they have to "one-up" their cowokers all the time. So we got this one guy at my work. We're a small-ish jobshop who dont run many of the same programs, however, once in a while we might have to re-run an old program to make the same part we made 2-3 years ago. Now this dude at my job. He hasnt been a certified machinist for that long - at least compared to almost everyone else at the jobshop. He has a tendency to want to run everything as fast as possible. From setting up the machine, programming and running around in the machineshop. As if his life depended on it. He recently had to make an old part running my old program. He proudly announced to me that he had made his own program and that the simulation said it would take 10 min less than mine. Im like, alright cool beans go for it dude. Because of the type material, the weird way you would have to clamp it and the tight tolerances; 3 broken taps, 1 busted facemill (Running it 3x as fast) and two of the tolerances he never got to spec. Oh, he also had to go ask for the manager to order new material not once, twice... 4 times. In the end if everything had worked out for him he would have made all the parts about an hour faster than my program. It didnt. It costed more for new material than the job was quoted for - plus all the broken tools. To try and save 1 hour. 💩
This is the flip side of constant improvement. Especially for smaller jobs not everything has enough room for improvement to be worth the time to make the changes.
@@NothingMeansNothing550 Absolutely. If youre making 1-2 parts - why spend 30 minutes trying to figure out how to lower the cycling time by 10 mins. If the machine is already running and you think "Oh, maybe I could change my facing operation and take 3x the depth im doing now..." Its usually not worth it especially if the program is running fine. Why risk, and this have happened MULTIPLE times, to literally rip the part out of the jaws because you wanted to make some nice chips.
You make some valid points, but it definitely has a management tone to it. There is ALOT of management problems in those LARGE aerospace companies. How do i know? I've witnessed it for 27yrs, there is so much more to this discussion. As a article was written recently on a large aerospace company...management treats these businesses as cash cows with no responsibility. If they mismanage and walk off with HUGH paydays while running the company in the ground. GKN aerospace case in point..
I don’t do any work unless im paid. Ive talked with higherups stating “i can make this 30 hour part into 8 really simply but I want to be compensated for the extra work we can do because of what I’ve done”. They say No. so I’ma act like my wage and keep getting better until I can find a place that wants you to push for better and faster programs/parts.
You can be as bullish as you want as a freelance, but as an employee, you do as your told or go away... that's a bit rude to say it like that, but that's the situation. If a company starts randomly negotiating with star employees on a job by job personal reward basis, by the month's end most of the staff will have left.
Blaming machinists when it’s the military industrial complex’s fault. And if it is a F35 part there’s probably paperwork saying the process can’t be changed. Can be changed but the cost of refilling paperwork will cost more than the time savings through process improvement.
I was working a CNC vertical mill and I had to set a job that had a work time of 5 days, day and night shifts, I set the job and finished the job in one shift. There was hell up from my day shift partner and my boss. My day shift buddy was angry I had spoiled is sitting on his fat ass time, so he tried to say that all the job was scrap, my boss initially was on his side saying I had scrapped them all until they passed inspection, but my boss was still not happy as my day shift buddy did him favours, making parts for his boat and I had spoiled that. I knew then I needed to start my own shop
It's the opposite at my place of work, unfortunately they do not reward you for any sort of improvements whilist setting or running 🤷♂️ top rate at my place is £20hr london, uk
Jazzy, ...TIP#101....from a employer,employee,vet,aero guru and insightful scheduler...... Walk away , let them rot and open your own business without the crap. Tip#2 ....avoid the gov interaction oversights💪
@@thomasmedlin2881 I'm just a trainee, but I'm already thinking about how to continue when I've become a tool maker. Before starting the apprenticeship I worked in the receiving department (also blueing and hardening) for 5 months because I had nothing to do and needed money. I learned a couple things but nothing necessary for being a tool maker, but because I was really reliable, friendly and not too stupid (so it was unlikely for me to fail school) and also because he most likely wanted to put me into actual production asap skipping much of the basic introductory stuff he asked the school whether it was possible for me to skip a year. I'm already in my 20's so I was happy to reduce my apprenticeship from 3,5 to 2,5 years and agreed. So I started in the 2nd school year, which finished today. I'm best in class having a '1' (best grade possible, grading goes from 1(best) to 6(worst)) in every subject. Still I'm just running parts for the last 3 months, not learning anything and I'm getting really frustrated. It's not only the bosses fault, he sometimes tries to get other people to teach me stuff, but he's not persistent enough and they even decieve him into thinking that they're teaching me stuff. I can do everything right and get rewarded with doing stupid work without learning anything and earning below minimum wage. At least I got another shortening of the apprenticeship period to a total of 2 years, but it's not worth much if I don't know anything afterwards. I'm already depressed that I chose this business and if it continues this way I'm gonna try to get additional qualifications directly after finishing training to get away from actual machining.
Ive seen what happens when a bad programmer tries to "optimize" an old program. I will keep using the old one thanks. I make small changes to improve things and they dont save the program. I make recommendations to tooling and they dont listen. Instead they come to me when I am in the middle of a production run of 1000+ parts and change EVERY SINGLE THING to gain ONE SECOND and the entire machine is down for a goddamned WEEK because they cant get the program to function correctly. I have VERY good reasons not to change things because, 1. I am not rewarded for it. 2. I am not thanked for it. 3. They dont want to give me credit for things I fix. The company can rot if they think I am going to make them more money when they arent making me more money.
Yep engineers dilemma is real nothing worse than good idea fairy’s updating jobs then complaining why your over runtime hours because they failed to account for accelerated tool wear means more downtime overall. Meanwhile I’ve been accosted for wanting a spring cut added to a job that clearly needed it because muh increased time which I added anyway and then actually save time and money cause I’m not replacing tools that actually aren’t worn and having to restart the program after discovering the part isn’t correct. (My team leader still doesn’t know the program is modified it’s been like this for 2 years now 😂)
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said but cutting the cost of production isn’t going to make the product cheaper. The product will cost the same and the extra savings go into the executive’s pockets. Lots of manufacturing has been sent over seas where you can pay employees less but the products they make haven’t changed in price afterward. You never negotiate down, basic rules of business. If I can make you pay more I’m not gonna lower the price.
"Share some of that profit with you" hah! Biggest crock of lies I've ever heard. They'll lay you off if you comment that a 2% raise doesn't even keep up with inflation. To all the young people reading this: This man is full of poo. Go to the next Boombastic, look him in the eyes, and tell me if you see joy or happiness. I did, the only joy I saw was when he was talking about machines, or troubleshooting them. The life he gets to live? Nah. That's not joy.
He's not full of poo. (Entirely) But I do agree with just about everything else you said. Blue collar workers have been getting bent over with ever increasing vigor since 1981.
We had a boss that was actually rewarding shortest cycle times. So it was a competition on the floor to cut it. Some mistakes happened, but it was fun, to cut time from 10 min to 5, and then swiss machines arrived, and the same job went from 5 to 1.5.
What you guys don‘t tell is that every part and machining process with the specified tool and the specified machine and the specified raw material has to be approved from the aviation authority. Additionally it has to be proven, that the part has the same property’s and strength or better than the already certified Part. Does the induced Heat from the faster machining affect the grain structure or surface hardness of the metal or does the new Tool transfer its own material/coating on the Part itself on an atomic level? All these aspects have to considered and certified and all that costs a lot of money and after that it is allowed to use the part in an aircraft. That is why an aircraft so is expensive and some company’s don‘t want to change processes which are proven. Some companies want to improve and try something new but Research and Development cost millions up to billions. Why do I know this? I am an Aircraft Mechanic in Germany and went to „Meisterschule“ and we were trained about this stuff from a guy who works for an Aircraft Engine Manufacturer.
Companies, on average, do an EXTREMELY terrible job motivating employees to be smarter and work more efficiently. If a company wants people to work better, give them a real reason. Pats on the back don't cut it.
It's quite simple: they need to pay the workers a percentage of the profits. That's it. That directly incentivizes the workers to make the company as profitable as possible.
The problem is that unless you’re working at a good job with a really good boss, you’re actually incentivized to have longer cycle times. If you have to manage 2-3+ machines at a time it makes your job easier when you don’t have to juggle them as much. Only the rare good boss will actually pay you for increasing their profits, meanwhile you’ll just be increasing your workload
When people get "good" at their job, it's easy to become complacent and turn off their brains. They don't want to think any more... thinking is hard work.
I asked for a raise Last month and they said no because I made some mistakes in that month. I have been working there for 3 years, pretty much with no mistakes. I was judged because one danm month, they forget everything what I did right. Im pissed off
They found an excuse to say no. It's a BS excuse, of course, and they probably know that - but an excuse to say no to a raise is something a lot of bosses will take
@@tantamounted They could have said thousands of other excuses like: " we cannot do it because everything is too expensive" or " We dont have money for that right now, things are Hard currently ". But no, they picked the worse one.
Why ask in your 'bad month' , doesn't seem like the smartest time to ask. If you were prepared with a comeback about all the good work, then they'd have to think about it. Unprofessional bosses take it personally that they think you've cost them money and you're then lucky they don't decrease your wages in their view! I'd suggest, doing a few months good work , then seek employment elsewhere... If you get a good opportunity elsewhere, then take it. If you're reasonably happy at the current place, say to the boss that you've had an offer , you think you're worth it and is there any possibility he could better it. I'd suggest putting it in writing to give him fore warning of the situation to allow him calm thinking time and then judge what to do when he chats it over with you. BE THEN PREPARED TO WALK if he's not positive or you'd had enough by now. Good Luck - the saying is ' you can't keep a good man down'
There is something critical missed in this video. All parts used for aerospace applications have very strict quality and traceability requirements (see AS9100). This is because you don't want something falling off an aircraft or failing during flight. As such, once you have a given machine, for a given set of fixed and rotating tooling, for a given NC code, you tend not to change anything. Doing so requires you to complete a new FAI (First Article of Inspection) for the part and this process can be lengthy depending on the routing (operation step process) for a part, especially considering the tolerances required. Are there improvements to be made? Absolutely! Unfortunately Aerospace is an industry which is (somewhat rightly) adverse to changes due to a need to always ensure quality of parts and repeatability of processes are maintained. Long lead times (sometimes years) for certain aerospace parts doesn't lead to rapid changes. If you want to make a change to the last operation of a part which took 2 years to get to where it is now, with the value of that part (either standalone or in an assembly) being $250k, a change has to be well justified since you probably only 10 a year anyway
good points. As a buyer I always check whats' been delivered. If the part arrived alway's within spec, looking the same etc then I wouldn't care about whatever was happening at the part manufacture stage. Providing the manufacturer wasn't causing me any additional costs, I wouldn't be requesting any part savings either. BUT, If I started noticing changes every now and again without consultation, then I'd start to twitch. Communication is the key aspect here. Discuss with the buyer what you want to do. Saying 'we need to make changes to make profit' is legit. Obviously emphasize the part will still exceed minimum spec reliably.
literally me. the other machinist in the milling department are allways like u can't use a blind hole tap in stainless, u can't take that cut yadayada. but like 80% of the time u can. the issue is that because of this mentally we are somewhat underdeveloped since it has been running like that and the managers didn't know there is so much affordable tech we can use to make our job way better
I see that a lot of the comments are “they won’t pay me more “ , I would like to add to the conversation that improving programs and trying new things in machining in general helps not only the company but also yourself , by trying new things you improve your knowledge and skill set and even if you arnt rewarded by your employer , like at times it has been for me , you can take those new skills to an employer who will appreciate it , I have just finished up making the new turbo housing for Mercedes F1 which was insanely complex with a 9 axis machine and I love my job and am paid more than any of the people in my previous company’s who always complained about pay , because I put it on myself to learn new things , machines , software ect I had opportunity’s they they never did - hope your having a great day - love from england
At least the commenters get it. We live in a gutted rotten society with dwindling trappings of wealth left over from a formerly great society. Monetary policy/ monetary debasement has thru the Cantiliion effect robbed the savers and enriched both those obedient to the system and even more so those who are gifted the opportunity to speculate with the inflated money. Manufacturing is largely a thankless business as it's capital intensive and we're forced to compete with higher IQ societies that lack the onerous costs of carrying a giant military industrial complex, a welfare state, useless courts, and a joke of a medical system. These arms you speak of are painfully obsolete and irrelevant but they're the best we can do as we've disenfranchised most of our gifted technical minds. Lost in Iraq, Lost in Vietnam, Lost in Korea, Lost in Afganistan, hell..... I'm starting to wonder if we Lost in Europe. In my opinion the best CNC machine might just be a paid for and totally serviceable late 90s on Fadal sitting in a n affordable shop space where you can actually have the ability to work on the projects you find fulfilling. Rushing out tons of paying work in a high overhead environment for reward of paying that much more in taxes is anything but appetizing these days.
If I changed a cnc program in aerospace I would have to get the first and last parts from the batch cut up and inspected in the lab. I would also have to fill in a ton of paperwork documenting the change in case it introduced a problem that previously never existed. In aerospace changes are introduced with each new product cycle and once proven successful they may be introduced to older parts. But the paperwork still needs to be done.
I don't know much about CNC, but we have the same guy all over software engineering: no interest in making improvements, will argue that they are impossible, even when confronted with evidence.
What is the first thing that a manager says regarding a new idea. NO. They do not want to rock the boat. It is all about CYA. They can't be blamed by their superiors for something that already works.
Not sure how much things are different but as software developer I have heard way too many stories of someone working a boring job, automated it with scripts, showed to their boss, and get nothing more than some good words and responsibility to maintain the script for everyone else. So for me it is pretty straight forward in that if the worker is not compensated in some just way (money, good reputation, job safety, etc.) they have full right to take the cycle time saving to themselves slacking off (in the form of just let it be or finish early).
The content of the video is correct. Everyone should be looking to improve every process on a comtinuous basis and this does lead to higher profit, higher wages, and better job security. However, sometimes the inefficiencies are baked in by the purchaser of the product. Some customers have extremely burdensome processes in place that require you to jump through a lot of hoops to make any change to a process whatsoever.
I've worked in machine shops since I was 16, I'm soon 40. In all that time in various machine shops I've yet to see any boss go out his way to pass extra profits from better efficiency back to the workers. It never happens, the only times ive recieved any sizeble raise was through the threat of strike(company recorded record profits up 40% on previous year, yet they still say there's no money for a payrise despite the promise made to us the year prior.) This video is inaccurate at best, gaslighting at worst and only serves to damage the integrity of the channel to the experienced machinist.
@@bobmcbob8732 I'm sorry that is the experience you have had. I would probably not work there if that happened to me. The places I've worked are small (
Retired now from aerospace manufacturing and CNC programing. This video reminds me of a friends reply to 'I know what I'm doing I have 20 years of experience' to which he replied, 'no you have one year experience 20 times'.
The message of your excellent video goes far beyond the machining industry. All of America, and especially those at the highest levels, should watch it multiple times and apply what they hopefully learn.
Most companies, upon achieving profitability, typically distribute returns to their investors, reward upper management with bonuses, and often show appreciation to their workers with gestures such as a pizza party.
Imagine a boss who won’t watch new developments online and is therefore scared of the shit you want to try. Or trying to drag everyone along with you towards productivity, and have them fighting back. Easy to talk a big game when everyone around you is willing to improve. But it’s not was to leave that environment when no one else is paying as much, and the job opportunities are few. I program shot conservatively because I know people will be scared, and yet I come into guys running proven programs at 80% and not a single person in management gives a shit(or won’t do anything about it). My shift regularly does 50% more production, with only 25% more time to do it. Work around people that don’t want to learn and improve and come back to me and give me advice. Seriously, please do.
I work in hard milling, electrode milling, edm machining, and in-process/automation/final inspection at a very respected mold shop. I 100% agree with everything in the video and believe the older gentlemen need to spend at least a day to learn easy improvements and techniques.
Thanks for making that video. People keep saying it's the salaries oversees. But when you actually look at Salaries in Shenzhen etc. they are not crazy different. Sure, it's a factor, but not the main one. It also turns out a lot of shops there are just not lazy and do the optimizations.
@@barrysetzer I work for the Coors brothers,. Like the beer company except they sold it in 2008 I believe. As of now coorstek is a ceramic company with buildings all over the world. Id say our biggest problem is communication from each building we all use different tooling and feeds and speeds. I’m one of 3 programmers in golden Colorado. I’d love to show you around Barry
@@barrysetzer in Golden Colorado we have over 1000 employees and 8 massive buildings. I’d say we have well over a thousand machines in our state. I can take you on tour on 6 of the 8 buildings in Colorado
Do you have suggestions about when engineers and non machining trained people are in charge of programming and continue to push tools past breaking point to "improve" cycle times and blame floor workers for low production rates?
Bruh, just few years ago I'd champion everything you've just said... but today... meh... let it run as it is. Yeah sure if someone buys your 1000% optimization that can be your pitch, but you're also then making other folks in the industry look bad, and that is NOT good for business.
Every time a new series of parts that we made previously arrives i always go trough the program and do a little bit of change to make it faster, sometimes it's feeds and speed and sometimes the entire tool pass. Im 23 YO and i try to push the machine to it's maximum. And what makes me happy is that the man in charge always says thank you :).
This may very well be my favorite comment. I love the young guys like you. Keep pushing it brother. If you ever need to bounce ideas off of me, email me at barry at titans of cnc dot com
Hey boy this is real world not fiction. If you save 10000hrs to the shop you may get a pizza. Any etra profit will be re-invested in equipment. Or pocketed. Been im the aerospace industries for 18years.
anything over 20ipm goes into a slush fund, be it pentagon or bosses mistress. don't support black operations by running at high speed! this is how MK ultra got funded.
But gross inflation of parts cost is all part and parcel of the government contracting system. They get appropriated funds and all the funds have to be spent. The system itself is broken and until it's fixed there is no incentive to fix the next step in the process.
That is exactly why I stopped working in aerospace shops, I was so tired of seeing how slow some jobs ran but upper management was so scared of changing anything because they worried about the parts not being in spec for some reason.
I’ve been in the industry almost 20 years. Most of the time parts can be simplified and cut manufacturing times by a significant amount. A lot more than just running optimized code. I came into the aerospace industry at the tale end of the manual / NC era and witnessed the change in methods and part design. Most of the time parts are designed with feature sets that provide ZERO benefit and do not aid or enhance form fit or function. They just came into existence as a function of the software tools or because they looked nice in CAD. We went from square parts with east to machine features to complex parts with no square edges and blended feature sets. A part that would take 30 minutes on an old Mazak 3 axis now takes 3 hours on a very expensive to operate 5 axis.
As someone who has spent the majority of their working life in high production machining. The biggest issue is getting/ being allocated the time to optimise an existing program between other projects, tasks, fire fighting on daily issues, etc. When I create a new program for a new project, I try and optimise it as much as I can. E.g. minimal tool changes, shortest tool paths, best speeds and feeds and dynamic cutting strategies. To ensure I try and get the program the best I can in the implementation/ prove out stage.
When I was younger I would stay after work to try to improve things for both the shop and myself. Job after job I would do this same thing. All I would get is a compliment and a pat on the back. The problem is that in doing this would take time away from my family. As I have gotten older I no longer do this. It's not my job that matters, its my family. Now, if jobs would pay employee's some bonus for every time they made something better then I could see how it would change peoples mind. Yet green from company owners is still king in this world.
I get on a milling program that has been ran a couple time in the shop. I'm in there adjusting speeds and feeds to gain time. If you're doing 500-1000pcs and pick up 1or 2 minutes per part. It can be the difference of being done Friday or done on a Monday afternoon.
I agree with you 100%. But what happens or what do you do when you are a 2 1/2 yr old shop owner, 36 years old, do everything from start to finish, and extremely limited on funds do to overhead? I would love the latest and great tech for my machine shop. Realistically it’s not possible for me at the moment.
I want to see any company that redistributes the 2 billion additional profits generated by their smart employees as 20k raises. When in the whole history of capitalism did that ever happen?
There are some companies that pay employees a percentage of the company's profits (or a percentage of the company's stock). Sadly those companies are rare, they should be much more common.
If you replace the MACHINE that deflashes bomb fins to a newer machine from the exact same manufacturer the defense department WILL make you pay for entire recertification of the weapons system. Will cost MILLIONS of dollars. Switch manual clamp with pnuematic? Same thing. This is why EVERY defense subcontractor has 80 year old machines.
I am a programmer and we have some programs that are 20-30 years old at my job and everyone is scared to work on them because they don’t want to cause problems with them. I don’t have any problems updating them and fixing them but never get a chance to. When I can I update them but because I am the only one at the company willing to do new technology projects I rarely have time to go update all the old programs that have a bunch of junk code in them. So it comes down to not having the resources (people) to do the changes.
Its stupid. if you run extra special parts, you will not touch it. in rocket science, if engine is working, you don't touch it just because you can make it better. you don't touch it because you sometimes don't know what could lead to problem, even if its minor change. So for ordinary parts, yes, you can push it, but not for specialty parts. where are so many examples of this...
You wear that shirt because you deserve it.! I work at entirely different field, but I love employees with your attitude. I bet Titan is glad of every penny that he pays you. Wish the comment about other bosses weren't true.. But the sad reality is that there are true, maybe with people and videos like this one we change it.
I think base pay model should looks like: everyone have minimal wage and shares (all profit to split). half of all shares go to owner (he still takes all loses to him) another half to all employees. ex. the best programmer will have 1000x more shares than cleaning guy. new employee more profit more shares. that makes that everyone new his work have impact to his pocket. ex mechanic is not willing stay longer to fix machine today so tomorrow that machine starts earning money.
In a shop that supports a massive production output of non machined parts(eg. tire industry) and also has structured pay levels that you’re already at the top of, you’re just creating more work for yourself and not getting any added benefits whatsoever.
also if you go at 20ipm you might not break a end mill and keep your job. machine parts at 600ipm, make 5x as many parts, and get fired when the end mill breaks. where is this fair machine shop ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? never land??
ye let me work harder, so my boss can make more money... makes sense... the problem is not the machinist not wanting to be better... its just not getting payed better
3:00 can solidworks or mastercam or cad tell you what's the fastest feed rate you can use based on your spindel speed and diamonds and material or do you have to calculate it manually? Because a little bit of tension and you could break the machine and cause hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage
you boil it down as it where actually that simple which completely dismisses some of the Realities of how Humans treat each other. What about those that did improve yet where never probably paid and rewarded for it? The simple fact that Employer and Employee's are drifting apart rather then sticking together more often then not has been self evident for a while now. If it where just about collective problem solving and everyone gets to reap the benefits we would live 200 years in the future. But fact is we dont. People tend to be competitive miserable piles of greed and self interest becomes a priority once you realise coorperating just warrants turning yourself into a useful idiot towards others rather then engaging in a benefitial relationship between 2 Parties. You have more then 1 good point made but your forgetting how disposability Dominates many Company Standards of Today. Even if you didnt come across this Fact yet it is as real as people being unmotivated to really wholeheartedly lend their Mind to the betterment of the Process. They feel like they work for a Noface Overlord not a Coworker or Leader.
Everything in America is inflated! The entire Western economy is super inflated! I remember reading about the "999$" Pliers ,25$ toilet paper roll, nearly 700$ toilet seat,150$ small hammer,up to 25$ ribbet...Costs inflated more than 100 TIMES! That's why that flying American F35 💩 cost nearly or over 200 million dollars! Greetings from Croatia 😎
lmao "if they see you improving their profitline and margins, the owner will "usually" share their increased profit margins with you" Oh boy if anything said couldn't be farther from the truth. No they will not share anything unless if it's written in a contract that guarantees those increased profit margins based on increased productive output. EVERYTHING has to be in writing now, handshake deals are the thing of the past with how crappy our business culture and honor has become non existent these days.
