Yes, Wib. Yes. _You must buy more models you do not need._ This was amazing and great. Really innovative and fun spin on the series and you should absolutely do more now and again. The research you put into this does not go unappreciated.
I sometimes think that GW head office records don't know the difference between when the model was SCULPTED, CAST or MANUFACTURED. which is why you consistently see three different dates for things.
@@randelclawson7695 I have an VERY old white dwarf magazine who's last page has a painting of a rogue trader style marine with an stylized M for the chapter icon and underneath the figure was a symbol for Tzeentch so M=1000 as in thousand sons...
I actually played my first Warhammer 40k game just last week using random models from dnd sets. Our local game store just got some Warhammer stuff and apparently I was the first to take interest sadly I can't purchase any
Is there anything more against the spirit of the hobby (wargaming and miniature building) than the puritanical insanity of GW's model policy? We need more shop managers like the one you mentioned.
@@benwaddi Eh, they are trying to sell a specific line of models, to come in not by any and then sit around advertising the competition is a bit unfair. It's a bit like going to your local cafe and eating the Big Mac you bought next door.
@@poshboy4749 There have been managers that have barred people for using one model from a competitor, they also have that rule about models being a certain % of GW parts despite - up until recently - GW not having models for everything. That is what I am talking about, not someone plonking a bunch of Mantic stuff down and demanding to play 40k with proxies, that is just rude and obnoxious. I do wonder how Warhammer Ancients was supposed to be played in stores when GW stopped making models for it soon after release, and Warmaster Ancients where they never supported it with models. Managers back in the 2000s were just as strict but I guess the games were rare enough it rarely cropped up. (Oddly enough I just googled Warhammer Ancients models and Warlord Games' website comes up with them selling army packs for the second edition release back in 2010)
I had no idea Jes Goodwin has been in GW for so long. To think that one of the original designers is still active and plays a big role in todays designs is both refreshing and hopeful.
The first taccy was released in 1998. I was working for GW in 97-09. As a point of interest, the big statue at WHW (used to stand out the front) was not blown up from the same static marine but sculpted. The bolts in the magazine were made from pot noodle pots. I remember the full timers meeting at WHW (or the large gym hall as it was then) and they told us all about the brand spanking new head office that finally moved manufacturing, mail order (from Eastwood a few miles away) and the studio (from Castle Boulevard down the road) to the same campus. Working at WHW was awesome for the things you saw. Thanks for the memories.
I remember WHW in the 90s, when the shop was downstairs with all the mail order catalogues in the middle. I still miss the fact you used to be able to buy any individual part from any model you wanted... It was amazing for conversions.
Chris Dawkins that’s exactly what I remember. The thing was as a member of staff you brought models by weight. It was £20 a Kg for both plastics and metal. If you visited WHW (not what it was called as at the time it was just HQ) you could go to the picking floor and pick your own stuff. Rack upon rack of little trays of minis. You couldn’t empty a tray but when someone wanted a lot of something you take the tray empty the models into your picking box, put one back and move on. A friend of mine brought a 3000 point halfling army for £50. The only model you couldn’t buy by weight was the metal Thunderhawk were you only got a pitiful 50% off 😉. When I worked at WHW in 03/04 people could still order bits. This was sent down to the picking floor directly below the store. We then had to collect the orders through a hatch by the front entrance. Awesome times that GW won’t go back to as the company’s focus has shifted.
Marine sizes are weird. So Space Marines were not true scale compared to normal humans like Guardsmen, then we got Primaris who were the correct size for normal marines, but are supposed to be bigger than original space marines meaning thechnically they should be even bigger, then we got the new Chaos Marines that are Primaris sized but aren't primaris, meaning that they're now true scale, but actually the same size as the marines that are supposed to be bigger than them! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ GW WHY?! YOU'RE GIVING ME AN OCD ATTACK!
Don't think about the scale too much, you'll give your self a brain aneurysm, serfice to say the mini's are sized to what looks good and is practical to use, a full size marine wouldn't look anything like the mini, it'd be anatomically impossible.
@@eduardobalieiro862 You are correct, the scale is technically primaris are a noticeable bit taller than CSM. I'd assume if you compared the new CSM to the blindbox marines they've been pumping out, it'd be comparable.
My theory is that while the size difference (as well as prowess in battle) of primaris vs firstborn was heavily emphasized in their initial release, that was mostly to give a lore justification for doing more than just redesigning the models. Yes they could have just gone “marines are truescale now” and we all would have been happy, but instead they are updating the entire marine faction. So with each successive codex, we’ll see less emphasis on the exact differences between primaris and firstborn, it’ll just be what gear they have and how do they fight. Putting aside the lore arguments over them, (I have no issues with primaris myself) I feel its been worth the crazy trip to get the models we have today. Especially with models like the Bladeguard veterans. Now we just need to get that kind of model updates across every faction.
This was cool, I always love seeing old figures. And seeing the original Space Marine next to an Aggressor is hilarious. Also, now I need a squad of old school Beakies as veterans.
I had myself a veteran squad purely of old metal figures. Looks very silly beside the new Sternguard. Also put beaky helmet on 50% of my assault troops.
Really well made video. I love how you used the research into the usability of the Space Crusade models, on the tabletop. As an excuse to go to Warhammer World.
I recall that the 'M' on the LE2 model relates to the squad markings in Rogue Trader, that small disc on a marines pad indicated the weapon speciality/loadout of that individual marine, so possibly 'Melta' in this case. I don't have my copy of rogue trader to hand, so I can't double check, but it was on the colour pages alongside the rank markings.
Hi, I would like to report a problem with the video at timestamp 7:40. You imply that new Mk7 armor looks better than RT era Beakies. Clearly a mistake, I await your retraction.
I've never played Space Crusade, but after all these years, that kid in the advert saying "Dreadnaught!" is still etched in my memory. Almost as strongly as the one saying "Browd sord!" from the Hero Quest advert.
0:39 it makes sense because, and I quote “nobody wanted to buy anything that didn’t look like starship troopers, or the offspring of a piss drinking survivalist and a speech impaired boxer.” Thanks Emps.
For reference, White Dwarf 129 (September 1990) featured the first appearance of MkVII armour in 'Eavy Metal (p.29). These MkVIIs were only available in Blisters of three models and differed slightly from later models in that the metal bodies were seperated at the waist, allowing a little more variety in posing and better interaction with the RTB01 plastics - these blisters seem not to have been around for long though. White Dwarf 130 (October 1990) featured (inside back cover) the first advert for the new Space Marine Strike Force - the boxed set containing 15 metal MkVIIs with plastic Arms/Backpacks - it is a model from this set which you showed.
Two things- The painting is phenomenal The temptation to take the Warhammer World Rhino is too strong. Even if it has no motor, stick one in it, go Orky on its ass and take a Sunday Cruise
Nottingham here too, it absolutely has an engine and until it was moved to it's current location staff occasionally took it around the carpark for a joyride (I myself being one of the lucky few none-GW staff to have been in it). It's noisy as hell and spouts a phenomenal amount of exhaust fumes. Previously it was in Blood Raven livery for the Dawn of War game marketing (where you can also find videos of it driving around fields on RU-vid)... As to S&Ws visit to warhammer world - they must have gone on a weekend or when busy. I go down most Tuesdays (until the recent lockdown) and have literally handed over 3D printed models and minis to staff who've then gone off to show it to their mates before letting me play on the tables. The general rule seems to be that if it's quiet and there's no legal team around the staff do not really care if you ask politely and don't take the piss by doing something that would get the staff in trouble :)
The thrilled look on Snipe's face in the still image means if it weren't already a bucket list priority to grab a copy of Space Crusade, it certainly is now!
14:50 "one thing that we really wish was still around from the old days"... SQUATS! Oh, not where you were going with that. One big advantage of old models being small, though, is that since 40k is going for 'true' LoS, they're easier to get behind cover when you need to.
This made my day. Over the years I've developed an affinity for the early gw models. And I agree, putting the designers name next to the kit they designed would be awesome. I always feel bad doing converting projects because of the work thar went into design.
The M on the shoulder is the Latin numeral for 1000, because these are (retroactively) from the Thousand Sons chapter. That's right, the Thousand Sons are the original Space Marine.
For some reason this video randomly appeared on my Recommendation feed (I'm guessing because Bruva commented, and I've been binging his channel recently), but this is great. The recommendation feed is finally showing me something I want to see, and not reactionary trash. Omnissiah be praised! This video was great, and made me nostalgic for when I was a wean, and I first dragged my dad into a Games Workshop in 2001. I still have an old catalogue, and it is a TRIP to see how cludged the old models look compared to now.
You are missing the MK7 space marine strike force minis which came as two metal parts, torso and legs, released during rogue trader. The plastics in the box of six you showed was 2nd ed era. Nice trip down memory lane though :)
To answer your questions, the LE2 ISM, was sculpted and the mold created, in 1984. The model was available for purchase in 1985. The model was taken "off the shelf" in 1986. The different dates, is different publishers choosing different points of "production." Just as the US ordinance department couldn't decide what the T28/T95 was. T28 heavy tank, T95 SPG, or T28 Super heavy...
Props for having them all painted, I appreciated having that shot of all the kinds of models side by side with the same colour scheme at the end! Good shit!
The 3rd edition model is when bolters started looking bizarre though. They don't make any sense anymore. The magazine curves at the bottom, but goes into a straight magazine well, the charging handle and ejector port are located well above the barrel where it doesn't make any sense and are simply too small to eject a bolter sized shell casing. Now you might argue that bolters don't eject shell casings, but there is plenty of official art where they do. There seems to be general confusion as to whether the bolter is a short barreled 40mm autocannon with rocket assisted projectiles, or simply an oversized submachine gun. You can see this in video games of the era a lot where many iterations have bolter magazines come in at 15 bullets only and have the weapon fire single shots.
Pretty great work there! Maybe someone should tell Hasbro to stop just sitting on the rights of Space Crusade and maybe do a collab with Games Workshop for a remake... ( and yes; after reasearch, Hasbro are the one who have the rights for Space Crusade now... ) Will be a way better Kid version of Warhammer 40k that... whatever Warhammer Adventures is...
@@youdontneedtoseehisidentif4939 I got Space Crusade for about £60. Buy an incomplete one, then source the missing pieces on ebay. You can end up with a near mint set for £50-£70 less than ebay sellers want for a mint game.
My first marines were those 1993 mono pose. I eventually an entire company of my homebrew chapter (150+ models with vehicles) 4-5 of that original box of 10 are still intact among the company.
I’ve been getting back into the hobby after about 15 years. I started playing around 1990 during Rouge Trader and still have a few mini from that time. Were the models great? No. But there was something pure about them that still makes me smile.
Great, great video. Loved it. I am restoring and magnetizing my copy of Space Crusade at the moment. Also the plastic beaky box was the fire GW set I ever owned. I believe around 1991.
It is worth noting that 1990, 1993, 2006, etc. space marine bits all are pretty easily interchangeable with primaris kits too. The heads, shoulders, and backpacks are plug and play. The arms just require a little clipping on the primaris, and maybe a tiny bit of sanding. The chestplates require clipping and filing. Etc.
I just discovered your channel I don't know how to explain how awesome I found your videos. They're amazingly edited, the exposition is so good, clear and funny (seriously how much did it take to find all the information you explain???) and your models do look really well. It's just I cannot imagine the effort you had to put into it, and I really like the rigor and the genuine passion with which you talk. I foresee a great future for this channel. Keep it up!
Please you guys make more of these! More videos in general! You guys rock and I totally hope you get more recognition for the amazing work you guys put out 😇🙏🏻
As I binge this series, I really appreciate the use of "codices" in the intro. The thing is (and this is a 'me' problem), I have cursed myself into being hyper aware of both the Latin and Anglicized plurals; which means that when "codexes" is used in the body of the videos I get pluralization whiplash, which is fun.
You two are dope. Fun video and I collected these from the beginning however now I feel SUPER OLD. Thanks a lot!!! There was a set you forgot to mention called Space Marine Strike Force which ushered in the 1st metal/plastic arm Marines (Mk 8) The very first ones actually had “nubs on the bodies and socket joints in the plastic arm pieces” similar to the Plastic beakies that allowed for more pose ability but then for some reason they ended up sheering off the nubs and made the arm pieces flush. Regardless of my nerdy knowledge of citadel miniatures, this was a super fun video
I think part of the reason for the smaller early Space Marines is that they hadn't completely established just how much they had been altered from regular humans. Heck, in the beginning they only had a toughness of 3. It wasn't until they boosted that up to 4 and really got into the lore of just what a Space Marine was that the models took their first leap up in size.
I unknowingly bought a box of 93 space marines in their original box for $15 I should've realized they were old though because right next to them was a box of Orks labeled as Space Orks
As you mentioned, Space Marines existed before WH40K. You could argue they were designed to be used with the supplimental rules for sci-fi in Warhammer from the Citadel Compendium published in 1983. Another thing to remember is that the armies listed in WH40K:RT were not set in stone. They even gave you charts to roll up entirely random units of anything from Imperial Army to Astartes, to Eldar and the lost race of Squats. The Space Marines had charts weighted to load them out with bolters and flamers or missile launchers but it was possible to roll up a squad armed with lasguns, graviton guns and webbers. So that's why they offered minis like a Space Marine with a shurikken catapult.
Here where I am in Australia during the early 90s, it was next to impossible to get GW miniatures unless you paid the big bucks to have them shipped directly from the UK. A small gaming shop opened up in the CBD and started selling the First Edition rulebook, which I grabbed, and second hand metal models and plastic box sets. My first buys were a Space Marine plastic army (20 standard beakie marines, no special characters), a Rhino (which I immediately converted into a Whirlwind per the White Dwarf instructions), a metal Doredeo Class Dreadnaught and a handful of random metal marines which happened to include Naismith's Death Squad and Missile Launcher models. I didn't know how special they were at the time, but man I wish I still had them around now. I lent a friend my entire army of Marines, Dreadnaught and the Whirlwind for a local gaming day and I never saw them again. I still have the first run of metal Deathwing Terminator marines however, due to still playing Space Hulk to this day.
All of my space marines come from this time. My uncle moved interstate and didn't have room to take them so he gave them all to me. Space crusade and spake hulk where the main things he gave me. I just started teaching my 7 year old brother how to paint them and he's now using the same models that I was at his age
What a great little light hearted video. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Also loved how you painted them up. My first marine box was a Salamanders tactical squad from the 3rd war for Armageddon and I didn't have any super glue so I couldn't glue on the metal plasma gun or multi melta.
This was a BRILLIANT video on a subject that I really love. In fact, I was hoping someone would give an edition by edition breakdown of the evolution of Space Marine sculpts. Space Crusade was my introduction to the Warhammer 40K world. Now a ton of great memories are flooding back to me. I really enjoy your videos. Keep them coming!
I recall one of the old sculptors, I think it was Jes Goodwin, described those pre-40k 40k models like LE2 as being armed with "weaponized vacuum cleaners" in retrospect. Also as a gun nut I have to say that yes putting the magazine towards the front like GW did back then is absolutely horrible for gun design, not only would it seriously hurt barrel length and thus accuracy, but also makes the weight distribution very poorly balanced and awkward to hold. I wonder looking through these old sculpts if it's possible to pin down the exact year GW discovered necks exist.
Takes me back to my childhood. I blew all my pocket money on the set of miniatures from the 1988 RT01 set of space marines which if I recall correctly, their names were all based on the cast of the original Batman TV series!
I received a random box of warhammer from an old teacher’s models. One of the models I received was an odd space marine from 1991, it’s a space crusade miniature! I also have a metal pain boyz from the same year. Love those models and know they survived the years.
I just saw this. And after reading Saturnine. I was happy to find that tidbit where a certain characters name came from. Wonderful. Thanks for that interesting tidbit.
I got an immaculate Space Crusade box with Mission Dreadnought included, a couple months ago, and i'm removing mouldlines and painting them as i watch this. They're awesomely nostalgic (i only got to see the box on the shelves as a kid) and it's hilarious to note the QC of a "made in New Zealand" 1980s product. Thanks for the investigative journalism (no buzzing hidden camera hat tho...?).
It has been twenty years since I last painted a miniature model. Now I'm about to introduce my son to WarHammer, to give us something to do together, I've begun to take more of an interest again. I hadn't realised how much things had changed, and I'm really looking forward to getting hold of some new Space Marines. (I have fond memories of the 'beakies'.) The nostalgia in this video is also greatly appreciated.
IME here in 2020 still loving the old 80's stuff. I have about 80 of the plastics in various stages of refurbishing/cleaning and assembly, and about another 50 metals, and many vehicles, all from that era. Enough to split into 2 fieldable fores, so will be painting them as old school Mantis Warriors and pre space sparkle Blood Angels. Even have a couple unbuilt MKI Land Raiders that will become Spartans from the White Dwarf Template.
I have stupid tones of this stuff, it was passed down and now its at me I have 30 or so of the first impirial marines, oyu know the ones that squat, and about 10 of the ones that came after, couples with 20 of the original terminator squad and a original rhino and I think my haul is truly massive!
I’d imagine that as a rocket propelled munition, the bolter doesn’t need a long barrel to give accurate fire… hence the magazine can be so far forward, but does make you wonder what all the gubbins behind are!
I absolutely love this kind of historical look at the hobby from a developmental standpoint. I love using older marines, height difference be damned. I was told not to get certain terminator characters or extra heavy weapon guys to use with my plastic termies way back when I was just starting a decade and a half ago, but now I regret not having some pewter terminators. I got cheap Space Crusade guys in an ebay bundle and now am on a quest to fill out a box set to something half playable, and get more of the squat little wierdos for ancient tactical squads while I'm at it
Loved it . First time viewer. I started with Rogue Trader and have tons of those old models including old Robots or "Men of Iron" as they are referred to these days.
I'm sure that a lot of the discrepancies for time is due to when armors were designed, production set up, and available on the shelf. That's not even counting how differing regions can get product late.
