@@phasesecuritytechnology6573No, you can see that even on this channel. Most CF filaments have weaker adhesion, this one is the exception. I'm assuming it doesn't have high CF%.
@@polycrystallinecandy I regularly use 15-20%cf fill filaments. This is not the same as petg and it can't be tested like it is. I appreciate the tests done here but like every other reviewer they only have so much time they can devote to one particular filament and brand. If you test two different filaments with the same settings then you are simply getting a baseline and nothing more. It's not indicative of real world performance under the properly calibrated settings and environment. Petg cf requires drying at 65c for 6-8hrs MINIMUM out of the package. They are almost never dry. And moisture will absolutely kill their layer adhesion. They also need to printed hotter... Much hotter as you are now using a HS nozzle which has a lower temperature conduction. Think 265-275. You also want an enclosure kept near 25-35c if possible. Petg cf cools very fast. A simple breeze from your door closing can cool the top layer and cause poor adhesion. Your slicer settings also need to change. Zoffset, speeds, retraction, cooling, line widths on walls etc. I can tell you this with absolute certainty as I have far more experience than any RU-vid does with this specific material. Thousands of prints and hundreds and hundreds of hours tweaking across 5 different brands with my parts being used out in the field under real world conditions with power drills screwing countersunk screws through holes only 4mm thick and chamfered. No layer splits on hundreds of parts. Layer adhesion is nothing to fear with this material. It is not weaker when printed correctly.
This filament only has 6 percent carbon fiber content. I manufacture composite filaments, and in my experience layer adhesion crashes exponentially with the additive ratio. For example, 50% Iron powder-ABS filament has 5 times lower layer adhesion than 30% Iron powder-ABS filament.
Mine came sopping wet and needed a good 12 hours of drying at 50c. It was stringing like crazy before hand. Now it's dry and I've upped the retraction it prints beautifully.
The primary reason I'd use CF with PETG is to minimize deformation/creep, which you showed well but it's still not ideal for some parts. Testing very rigid parts under load at elevated temperatures and still well below the glass transition temp might expose some interesting issues. Perhaps a simple, acrylic or foam board enclosure kept around 50C or so (such as temps often found inside an enclosed printer). This may seem redundant and take too long to be practical but the effect of creep can be surprising. For example, I tested a horizontal bracket for a belt driven extruder design in PETG that was very strong (about ~15mm thick) and mounted on top of the original metal motor mount. A small belt from the motor went to a large pulley on the extruder and under constant tension. This would never flex at all on its own but eventually the half not supported (holding the extruder) visibly deformed enough to cause notable issues with the accuracy of the belt drive. The chamber was no higher than 40C. It was warmed up through the metal by the motor but this also had another heat sink on the bottom. CF-PETG lasted longer and deformed about half as much but was still a problem. Only printing the same part in ABS completely avoided creep from occuring. Even PA-6 Nylon was affected but took longer and to a lesser degree (PA-12 and/or CF fill would probably be fine but I got tired of testing).
The scientific way you analyze each filament is appreciated. Per your results both are good filaments. Personally I want to try the carbon fiber filament based on the visible finish on the printed parts. It’s nice to know it will perform similar to the regular petg.
My offer still stands to send you a couple spools of the new Fiberon filaments. I don’t work for them or anything and will be purchasing the filament myself. I’d just like to see you put these Fiberon Filaments through there paces.
Polymaker already promissed that they will send me ALL Fiberon filaments. But Nick moved to US, he must be very busy. If you can catch their live stream, try to ask them, if they will send me (their live steam is at approx 1-2 AM here in Hungary). To emails, I don't get a reply.
Petg cf performs even better than in this test if you get a higher quality brand and use an enclosure holding about 35c. I've printed most major and even amazon brands hundreds of times. IMHO it is the best all around filament there is on the market. Print it hotter and in an enclosure and the layer adhesion will be better than pla. My personal favorites were atomic and phaetus.
Great review, suprising to see the same layer adhesion. Shame you didn't verify Eryone's claim of drying the filament before sealing it, since most just seal it right away.
im unsure if it will have a difference in all the tests, but Eryone PETG-CF really needs to be dried before use. this comes from a person who NEVER dry spools normaly. and the Cf one in the video looks a lot like the my prints before drying the PETG-CF. also I got better prints with 255 temp.
PETG-CF has one major advantage for my use cases: it sticks better with superglue. Matte finish is another one, but not unique because there are PETG matte filaments available without CF.
@@dekurvajo Extrudr has good one with some color choices and their last Black Friday deals were impressive. PETG CF excluding black seems also only available in the Bambu Lab store and there are some concerns that those carbon (and glass) fibres could hurt you in a similar way then asbestos. Usually carbon fiber parts are laminated unlike 3D-prints. "Nathan Builds Robots" made a video about this topic, showing some concerning microscopic evidence that literally goes under the skin...
Now I'm curious about unfilled PET. For now, the only one I can find is FormFutura EasyFil PET. I think it should be inexpensive to manufacture, so this seems like an untapped market, assuming the only barrier to printability was nozzle/bed/chamber temperature.
Interesting. I've never played with CF filaments but I would have expected a larger difference in properties. Not that the results of this one type of filament are necessarily representative of CF filaments as a group...Thank you for the educational video!
I love your tests! However, I find petg benefits from a higher printing temperature. Would you consider running these tests or future tests at all the way up to 265 c?
Same. My petg prints are virtually always just one solid layer- breaks like injection molded plastic over all axis. No layer lines even VISIBLE. I do tend to run hotter as well. And larger nozzles. None of this 0.4 stuff
Could you invest a short video on your thinking around the risks / concerns with printing CF or GF filament? A different channel raised reasonable sounding concerns re: aerosolizing CF/GF fragments while printing, and the risk embedding CF in your skin if you handle CF filaments often. I suspect you have a rich and technical perspective on these risks (I cannot tell if I should take them seriously or not)
I'll try for the third time as my previous attempt were somehow deleted: your thermal test is very flawed, and I'll tell you how to make it better. 1- There is only one small nut on a thick and short bridge, there is basically zero load, much much less than even the 0.45MPa ISO 75 test. If you want to see what a real 0.45MPa load looks like with a nut and a bridge I have the cad on my GitHub 2- The temperature ramp is waaay too fast. I looks like 2°/min, so even when you reach the temperature at which the material will slowly fail it has no time to bend and it will only look bent some time later, resulting in a higher apparent reading compared to the real one. You need a much slower ramp, something like 0.5°/min or slower
The current test is not even a good comparison between filaments, as the failure of a material because of the temp is not linear wrt time, not linear wrt stiffness, and not linear wrt temperature itself, so one material that fails early but in a gentler way and one material that fails later but a bit quicker might give the sane result, even though they compare much different
1. He’s minimized confounding variables by standardizing his process - most important. More than one way to perform an experiment. 2. Where have my products failed? When I forgot them in my car where they experience temperature increases between 1 and 2 degrees per minute. I’ve learned a ton from his specific method of temperature testing.
@@erickenz8579 1- I'm not saying to use a different test each time, but to have one good standard, a better one that what he has to, going by eye his bridge is double the thickness and half as long compared to what's needed to test HDT/B (only 0.45MPa) with a M12 nut. 2- you are 100% not getting what's my point. If you want to know the max temp you can use a material you want a test as close as possible to steady state. If the material takes 2min to bend you'll already overestimate the temp by 4° with his test (or even worse depending on the creep behaviour of the material)
@@adeo i understand what you are stating (and the science behind it). That aside, in rear-world applications, would you choose a filament that was going to experience temperature within 5 degrees -Celsius of threshold? You are picking and choosing which independent variables to criticize. I could also argue a valid criticism would be related to the fact that each filament not optimally printed in every single test (ie. temperature AND flow rate optimized per material prior to every single print). But again, his methods do appeal to the masses (even that which you said was not good( and we can still learn how the filaments compare to one another (which I believe is more of his goal).
@@adeo and often researchers (with all of their methods and expertise) are not good educators. I would bet Igor is both. He understands his findings need to be easily understood to be valuable.
I have some rolls of Eryone PETG-CF and many issues when printing it... gotta go with extrusion rates around 0,85 and i have massive filament buildup on the nozzle as well as overhangs curling up like crazy. would love to see some advise
I am curious if filament similar to how QIDI* makes them would help here. Some of their CF/GF filaments are made where inly the core has CF/GF and rest is pure material, so the layer adhesion is as good as it could be, while getting most of the GF/CF in the filament. * I realize I mention QIDI filaments a lot, but I just have an X-Max 3 printer and mostly use QIDI filaments or Prusaments, so those are the ones I know about.
Hello Igor, does your university or department do food safety tests like in your past videos for 3rd partys and/or companies within Europe? I am trying to develop a somewhat affordable approach to food safe 3d printing process and could use services
I wanted to test, but PETG cannot be annealed (according to other users, I asked). Only PLA, Nylon, they can really benefit from annealing. CF helps for less deformation.
@MyTechFun is that because of the G in PETG? Because PET CF can be annealed? Due to its semi-cristallin structure it should generally be possible to anneal PET. Just guessing, I am also not sure.
Mr Igor, nice video. I see your mention that 80mm/s is roughly 6.4mm3/s flow. I’ve been searching for a formula to calculate this, but I’ve failed to find it. Do you have a formula for this?
It is very simple calculation from geometry. Speed * recangle area made by nozzle. In this example: 80 mm/s * 0,4 mm nozzle diameter * 0.2 mm layer height = 6.4 mm3/s flow rate.
@ Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense. Translating this to the Filament settings in the slicer software, whether that’s Orca, Bambu or Prusa… Would you fill out the max mm3/s only based on the nozzle size and default layer height for this nozzle? Will the slicer compensate for thinner layers? Just making sure I fill out the correct maximums in my slicer :)
@@JelleKalf no, the max flow rate setting is meant to limit the printing speed to YOUR machine's capabilities. For example, lets say that your extruder can sustain 40mm³/s, that's 500mm/s at 0.2mm layer height and a 0.4 layer width. However, if for some reason you need a bigger layer width lets say 150% or 0.6mm , If you increase it just like that, you will have underextrusion because you are now trying to melt more filament than your extruder can, since you were already running at your extruder's max capacity. That's where telling the slicer the max flow of your extruder comes into play, it will notice that the extra line width goes over the limit, and will automatically limit the speed to 333, so you no longer have to worry about measuring any of that. The cool thing is that it will do these calculations for every different parameter of the print and will limit the speed only as needed by your printer, so if you change layer height, or width, you'll prevent underextrusion without unnecessarily reducing speed where it's not needed.
Again, again, and again... low grade CF filaments are only comes to my option when i want something matte, slightly roughish surface. I wish there would be a PETG like that without the abrasive "feature"
I'm just not sold on CF PETG or Nylon, I don't think the fibers are anchored into the material as good as it could be from any results I've seen, PET-CF is something else entirely though.
@@riba2233 As I understand, it does help a lot with warp stability for printing, and to prevent heat deflection in application. But it's not the silver bullet most were lead to believe, as far as augmenting it's mechanical properties to being something more. Because of course in the end it's the same material but with chopped strands embedded into it. Maybe in the future when continuous-strand reinforcement is more matured.
@@Roobotics especially with nylon it helps extremely with stiffness (from 1500 to 8000 bending modulus) and temp resistance, not to mention creep, huge difference. It really changes the properties and elevates the material
@riba2233 this is good info to know, perhaps I'll have to reevaluate nylon then. If anything, the fact it is more stable to print means it's generally more accessible by all, instead of highly specialized machines
Please start drying them before printing, if you don't then the tests aren't accurate.... My eryone PETG-CF came wet I know they claim to dry it before bagging but you don't know how long it's been sat in storage and it can still absorb moisture through the bag.... it also prints a lot better and is stronger when dried properly
