Once Saved, Always Saved? (Hebrews 6) - Mike Mazzalongo | BibleTalk.tv 

this is always the reaction of people when heard the truth. I believe while you're listening your furious but it's ok just continue of your faith and you won't lose your salvation.

Good question and one that I have wondered about as well. My guess is that it is a humbling experience and, as humans, we’re not good at that. - MM

Seems like an awfully huge risk to take to avoid a little humility. I mean, if we're wrong (we're not) and the anti-baptism folks are right, all that's happened is that we've done a little more than is required to get into Heaven. If we're right and they're wrong, however, they're risking their eternal souls over something they could do in an afternoon. That's crazy.

Not in this lesson. There will be a more focused teaching on this topic in an upcoming series entitled, “The Bible in 7 Passages” - MM

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Amen

I suggest you watch the BT video entitled “The Baptism Wheel” Saves time in having to re-eat everything here. Thanks. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ed75_jGI7hU.html - MM

Thanks for your comments. Can’t say everything that needs saying in 30 minutes. Usually requires bold strokes. True that basic Calvinism has evolved and changed but this is where it began and the practices that stemmed from it. - MM

@@bibletalktv absolutely. None before Calvin preached that this doctrine was biblical. Jesus tells us we will be hated for righteousness. Peter and Paul tell us the same thing. The works Paul spoke against was twofold. Primarily circumcision, of which grace removed the dividing line between jew and gentile. The secondary part of this is that the law cannot free us from sin, nor atone for them. That atonement is provided in Christ on conditions. Conditions Paul would have known. Ez 18:20-24 Isaiah 1:16-20

@Harry. Please read what the early church believed against eternal security. They took the warnings that believers can lose salvation seriously. Romans 8:35 is about God's providence for a tried and true believer that is facing persecution. The parallel passage to this is in 1 Peter 2. That if we're persecuted for righteousness God will be pleased. As Peter warns in 2 Peter 2, this protection is *not* for believers that return to sin. They are worse off than unbelievers for returning to sin. (verse 20-22 are very clear on this) The early church took these passages in their plain literal rendering. When Nichomachus faced persecution on the rack, he denied the Lord to end the pain. Denisa who was standing next to him when God struck him dead after he was released (similar to Ananias and Sephira that clearly lost salvation) said the following. "that poor fool. He only had to endure a moment of suffering but now he will have to endure suffering for eternity." Did Denisa believe in once saved always saved? No. That's why when the authorities overheard her say that, they arrested her and had her beheaded. Once saved always saved makes every martyrs death in vain.

Please clarify.

One scripture doesn't cancel out another.

We can cite sections of the bible....we can cite statements made by the disciples. How about we reference what *Jesus himself* is quoted as saying, as the most direct authority?... and to add a level of "completeness" to what is shown in other scripture texts? Mark 16:16... "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved". Also, within John 3:1-7, Jesus says, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God". Can any of this be argued?

How about one question and then a response? Pick one. - MM

1. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall NOT BE FORGIVEN him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. -- Matthew 12:32 2. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: AND THE LAST STATE OF THAT MAN IS WORSE THAN THE FIRST. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. -- Matthew 12: 43-45 3. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: BUT FROM HIM THAT HATH NOT SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH. -- Matthew 25:24-29 4. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE Son of God, AND HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WHEREWITH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? -- Hebrews 10: 26-29 5. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and REPENT, and do the first WORKS; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will REMOVE THY CANDLESTICK OUT OF HIS PLACE, except thou REPENT. -- Revelation 2:5 5.1 REPENT; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. -- Revelation 2:16 5.2 And I gave her space to REPENT of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, EXCEPT THEY REPENT OF THEIR DEEDS. -- Revelation 2: 21-22 5.3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and REPENT. IF THEREFORE THOU SHALT NOT WATCH, I WILL COME ON THEE AS A THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. -- Revelation 3:3 5.4 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: BE ZEALOUS THEREFORE, AND REPENT. -- Revelation 3:19 *** That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good WORK, and increasing in the knowledge of God; -- Colossians 1:10 ***And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. 1 John 2: 28:29

Simple.....what if someone loses their view of Christianity and backslides after the earlier time period where they WERE devout Christians? What then? What if the "Saved" person goes back to his/her "pre-repentant" ways?.... the concept is to keep believing and trying (as best one can) to "stay-the-course" of repentance and trying hard not to sin that way again. If you throw that all away,...consciously sin and not even trying anymore to be on-track.... you're back to where you were earlier. You're then a "back-slider". It can happen....you must "Stay the course" to the end.

Baptism is more than a "work". As I review Scripture, I place a lot of weight of what Jesus himself says, if in conflict over what others, even the Disciples say. Example: Mark 16:16... (Jesus said)... "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. And this, said later in that verse--> "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a Man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God". And then I'm sure we can't remove repentance as part of needing to "believe", we have this--> Acts 2:28-39, where Peter says, ... "Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." As to the point of always-saved, if that were so, why did Paul write as many "letters" to the various early churches that he did....essentially warning them of losing their way or backsliding?. If OSAS, then he didn't need to do that.

@TheWilfirch, I posted that comment you responded to, about 5 yrs ago, when I was an immature Christian. Since then, I no longer believe in the doctrine of "once saved, always saved." I've been enlightened to that false man-made doctrine. I now believe in "Grace through Faith," Belief & Repentance" & Justification by Faith are the primary factors for ones Salvation. For the past 4 years, I have come to believe that a born again Christian can potentially forfeit their Salvation themselves, by backsliding, loss of Faith in Jesus, wilful unrepentant sin or by not persevering in the Faith, until the end of ones life. However, I still disagree with yourself & the preacher about Baptism being essential for ones Salvation. The example I would give is the thief on a cross next to Jesus. Christ granted the thief his Salvation by his belief in Christ & Repentance from sin, before he died on a cross with Jesus. Christ said to him, "I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise." So that thief on a cross is an example of someone who was granted salvation by Faith & Repentance in Jesus alone, without having the opportunity to be Baptised. I believe that this example shows that Baptism can not possibly be essential for ones Salvation. However, I do believe that if one does have an opportunity to be baptised, to express ones Faith in Jesus as a public proclamation, then one should be baptised, but not as a means to be saved! Baptism is a ceremony & it honours ones Faith in Christ, but a ceremony cannot save you, & for some Christians, it is not always possible to be Baptised.

@@mildura101 ...I appreciate your out-reach and further maturing in the Scripture, thank you for responding and telling me this. I have a ways to go myself...we all do. As to baptism being ( or not being) required.....consider this. Of all what is said in scripture, what better example can we give other than direct quotes from Jesus HIMSELF, even over other quotes in Scripture? Examples---> Mark 16:16... (Jesus said)... "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. John 3:1-7, as Jesus speaks with Nicodemus... "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again... he cannot see the Kingdom of God". Notice the "verily, verily".....taken to mean, "Hey, listen carefully and fully ! Later in this verse---> "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be Born again." Going a bit further, Jesus gave (specifically) Peter the "Keys to the Kingdom" ( the methods Peter should use, to later teach "all", after Jesus' resurrection, on the methods for salvation)... Matthew 16:18-19 Jesus says... "I say, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven". In essence, Jesus is saying, "I will no longer walk the earth, but I will give you the instructions to give to others how to be saved". From this point, then, we land here---> in Acts 2:28-39, where Peter says, ... "Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." As to the thief on the cross with Jesus, think of the word "Testament". Just like your own "Last will and Testament" here on earth......that document has no power until you are dead. Christ was still alive when he gave him a "pass"...so at that moment people were still under the Old Testament law. The New Testament speaks to needing baptism.

Thank you for that response. I do appreciate your knowledge and critique of the scriptures relating to Baptism as part of the process of Salvation. And I do not entirely disagree with what you have said. I will do some more intensive research on the importance of Baptism & Baptismal regeneration. I thank you for your gracious input as a fellow believer in Jesus. Being more mature in the Faith now, I am always open to constructive criticism of my understanding of scripture. So I do appreciate your comments & commitment to scriptural understanding & spreading the truth. As we both agree, each of us is on a journey in our spiritual maturity in the Christian Faith & one can never stop learning from each other & from the majestic magnificence of God’s Holy Word. I look forward to further discussions with you if or when another time arises. God bless you & keep proclaiming & sharing the Gospel of our Lord with all who are seeking the truth 🙏 🙏

@@mildura101 ..Wow.... actually, I am still a very "junior" person in this never-ending process of faith- learning and discovering,....you give me too much credit. I responded from my many notes that I keep as I come across "issues". That said, I appreciate the sentiment and am always open to discussion. On my current path, I am distressed to find 12-15 denominations of the Christian faith....."each" proclaiming the truth....."each" pointing to Scripture as backup for what they say.....yet "each" being different from one another in actions and doctrine. If you do the same you will probably find the same thing and be dismayed. I tell myself..... it seems ONLY Christianity is fragmented this way, not Hindu-ism or Buddhism...so it MUST mean Christianity is pretty much "the way" and therefore is the MAIN target of the devil.....who has so far been successful in sowing discord and confusion among the Christian faithful looking for "Answers", by helping keep these denominatons from reaching agreement. Therefore, I don't see myself ever truly finding the "common ground" that I search for, as much smarter and more influential church leaders could have done so over the past 2000 years....but haven't. So the best I can achieve is contentment within myself as to what makes the most sense and is scriptually most supported. Some others in my position go as far to say if you can't find total resolution among the various points expressed...therefore it must mean we are looking at this too closely, too "granular".... from too much of a point of "Biblical Literalism".....looking at stuff too closely and losing the main message. Kinda like the early Pharisees focusing on the 600+ points and "Rules" they kept in the day...yet they kept on missing the core point of faith when confronting and challenging Christ in talks, for what Christ did "wrong" in their eyes. Christ won these arguments...and the Pharisees were left dumbfounded. Keep on pluggin '.........