One thing thats commonly missed by most readers about this arc is how Thriller Bark is actually one big metaphor for depression. In this arc it’s specifically stated that Shadows are part of the soul. So Moria quite literally steals a piece of your soul and leaves you to forever hide in the Darkness. Never to step out into the light again. Light represents hope. Whats more, Moria himself is doing all of this because he himself is depressed. He crew was murdered. He sunk into the shadows, and now he drags others into the shadows of depression. Stealing their ability to stand in the light. To have hope. So characters been living in the shadows, trapped in the deep dark bowels of depression. Unable to ever again see the light. Which has become like poison to them. Hope itself has become poison. Certain moments become so much more powerful when read through this lens. Like Lola saying she refuses to live in the darkness(depression) anymore and chooses to cling to light(Hope) even knowing that hope may destroy her. Life comes with great pain and risk but you can't live in the darkness forever. Eventually, you have to come out of the shadows. Brook’s final speech perfectly caps off the arc by encapsulating the entire story in a single sentence. “There was never a day that was easy, and I had given up all hope”. Summing up the experience of Thriller Bark in a nutshell. But after getting the piece of his soul that was missing, and being able to stand in the light again, Brook tells us, “I’m so glad to be alive”. Not only is this beautiful storytelling but it’s also really shocking that One Piece is able to handle such a mature topic so seriously. Theres a genuine sincerity to the story and characters despite all the comedy and I don’t think most other writers could have pulled off perfectly blending comedy with such a tragic story.
I think you're on to something and I've appreciated the arc more on re-watches, as I think the next arcs play into the theme of Thriller Bark. Without spoiling anything, I think it is important that Moria started out where Luffy is now, trying to become King of the Pirates with the help of his crew. However, he ran into someone stronger than him and lost his crew, and we're seeing how Moria dealt with that. It works as a kind of sign post and warning for the Strawhats.
Also add to that, luffy’s response to brook is “of course you are” made me rethink about luffy’s ideology a lot when I first watch it. At loguetown, or even since his introduction, luffy appeared to be a reckless guy who saw death as a trivial matter. But after this incident, I can see that he actually value life, it is not “death”, but “trying” matters to him, but at that point of time, it was only do it or die for him, he didn’t have anything else to value his life, that’s why he phrased it that way, later, as he has his crew to protect now, it kinda become: I will do it and try as hard as I can to live.
The plates thing with Cindry is a reference to a Japanese folk tale, wherein a beautiful maid is in charge of taking care of her lords prized plates. One of the lords warriors likes her, but she doesn’t like him, so he breaks/hides a plate to blackmail her into being with him. She still says no, and gets tossed down a well, haunting the castle looking for the missing plate. That’s part of why Cindry was introduced coming out of a well and the whole unrequited love thing plays into her dynamic with Hogback
14:46 So from interviews we know that Brook's connection with Laboon wasn't planned , Oda was basically writing Brooks backstory and just went : "Hold up ! I can link these !" much like so many other things in the story unless Oda reveals them in outside sources we can't really tell what's planned and what's improv
@@thedoctor3528 Do not watch if you haven't finished Dressrossa ( that means you Denny !! ) : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Z_xXBLdWjt0.html
Something I don't think you went over here was the Theme of "Shadows". Another theme of this arc is "Shadows". So each of the Strawhats opponents this arc is a shadow(a dark reflection) of themselves. Chopper a Doctor, faces off against a dark Doctor one who neglects the Doctor's oath(hippocratic oath) and disrespects life. The difference between them being that Chopper protects and preserves life while Hogback abuses it. Usopp who is negative faces off against Perona who uses the power of negativity. Though while Perona uses her power of negativity to drag others down, Usopp uses his negativity to keep his crew safe from dangers they would have otherwise ignored. Sanji and Absolom are both perverts. Absolom is the dark side of perversion. He forces himself onto women without their consent and ignores their well being. Even going so far as to put their lives at risk for his own desires. He's a literal perverted Beast. Whereas Sanji may peep from time to time but he always puts their well being above his own and this shown in the scene where he holds Nami above himself while he takes damage. Literally putting her above himself. Next is Zoro vs Ryuuma. You may not know this but Ryuuma was once the world's greatest swordsman. So this battle is one of the Former world's greatest swordsman vs the Future world's greatest swordsman. The difference between them being that Ryuuma's spirit is not his own. The shadow of someone else guides his blade. So he isn't one with his sword like Zoro is. Zoro carries Kuina's spirit through his blade but Ryuuma's has none at all. Last is Luffy & Moria. Both are men who sought to become Pirate King but Ever since he was crushed by Kaido, Moria has grown lazy. This makes him weak. He's literally become a shadow of his former self. Just like his power. Whereas Luffy knows he needs a strong reliable crew to support him on the path to Pirate King but unlike Moria, Luffy is willing to give it his all for his crew while Moria doesn't put in any effort at all. Making others do everything for him.
I think one thing to keep in mind is that Luffy does not have any context as to why Aces vivre card is burning out, only the readers/watchers know he's in Impel Down and is set to be executed. To him he's probably thinking Ace is a pirate and pirates are always in sticky situations, he'll be fine nbd
You missed what Oda was doing with all the villains this arc. They were meant to be dark shadow reflections of the main characters. Two sides of the same coin. Foils. They all had something in common with their opponents but differed in key way. WIth Sanji the similar trait he and Absolom shared was their lust but the difference, between them was that Sanji's lust comes second to a woman's safety and that he wouldn't force himself onto one. That was meant to be the take away from the scene. That yes he is lustful but unlike Absolom he never lets those desires overtake him.
That's a good point about the reflections. However my issue with Sanji isn't that he's lustful, it was more so his weird vengeance thing for a dumb reason but it's all gravy baby
@@ShutUpDenny Concerning Sanji and the Clear-Clear Fruit, when he says that he wanted it since childhood there's a small pause before he eventually says that it was so he could peep on women's bathrooms. You can write it off as him being hesitant in admitting that his goal was the same as the villain's, but in reality Sanji doesn't want to reveal the true reason so he chooses to say what would sound more fitting to the "ero" aspect of his nature. This reason as well as both the "ero" and chivalrous aspects of him are related to a later arc, so I won't say anything more. Just, please, don't give up on Sanji!
@@evelynarhondi6375 I noticed that too (just finished TB) and my prediction is that some type of abuse or bullying happened to him when he was young and that is why he wanted the clear-clear fruit
@@pyagtargo1260 Thanks for not writing Sanji off 🙏 This arc makes many fans go sour on him 😞 I can't agree or deny your comment (spoilers). I will just say: Good job noticing 👍 And: Please, be patient. It will take a while until all small mysteries regarding Sanji's past clear up.
Moriah is actually great in a sense. Obviously he's made to look washed up and that's because he is. He was riding high as anyone until he got in a fight with Kaido, who was mentioned by him, and got his entire crew killed. He lost all drive after that, since then he's only sneaking around in the background, shadows if you will, of the actual bigshots. The fact that his crew got killed also ties in to why he's decided to make a crew of invincible creatures. I believe he mentions that himself as well. But yeah at first no one's enjoying him, this is only stuff that shows in retrospective, some as soon as the next arc, others way later. He's not someone cool or even compelling, he's really just pitiful and many have come to actually appreciate a character like that, though the general consensus is still that he's trash so I'm in the minority lmao
@@ShutUpDenny Honestly, I would say the story de-fleshes him in a sense; not really just a pun. I believe everyone has mentioned that Moria is in deep depression due to his loss and the loss of his crew against Kaido. However, as you mentioned with his design being shit, his body type is a direct result of his depression as he only became so giant and fat after his loss to Kaido and used to have a fairly fit body type; yet another well known symptom of depression.
I have to say, that moment about Sanji is, indeed, one of the lowest moments for the character. Oda had this period where the pervy jokes skyrocketed. Just have hope, it passed, and Sanji will regain your heart. And about the fan service, the anime tends to over exaggerate it. In the manga is not that much. Also, from this point on the anime starts to have some real problems with the pacing, so maybe you could consider watching One Pace, where they cut the unnecessary long scenes (for example, the 5 minute scene where Oars awakens is about 1 in One Pace).
Idk if anyone had explained but in one piece you’re soul is in both your body and shadow so that’s why some zombies can overpower the shadow that’s been put in them
I think the pay-off for Cindry-chan was that Chopper actually manager to revive her the way revival should be done. With his kindness he made a dead heart beat and a life force fight back against it's "owner" and it's shadow. Chopper pulled off a miracle that Hogback never could and would achieve. There are a lot of upcoming fights (for example him saving kids in Punk Hazard) where chopper fights as a doctor and not a combatant and you should keep an eye for them.
Theres another theme in there revolving around shadows and the true nature of the human spirit. One of the points Moria makes was that he has complete control of the shadows and only he decides if they can go back or not. This is a huge plot point and the main win condition for the arc. However the reality of this statement is revealed over the course of the arc. It was never really true. It was just something Moria believed. This is shown the scene with Cindry resisting her orders from Hogback right after Hogback claims all Zombies can do is follow orders and no longer retain their personalities. Zoro & Sanji's Zombies also disprove this as they start fighting just as Zoro & Sanji would. Ultimately in the end Moria thinking he can control all the shadows on Thriller Bark fails to control all of them at once and the Shadows return tho their owners of their own free will. Without his orders. Despite what Moria believed he simply could not completely contain/control the human spirit.
I think what brought moria down was his lack of back story, from what I know, when he was younger he was like luffy looking for the one piece with his crew which was just like luffys but they all died after he fought some ubsurdly powerful people, moria became depressed and gave up on having a mostly living crew blah blah blah, he also looked much better when he was younger, I really think oda should've given a backstory instead of just having moria mention it.
@@ShutUpDenny since one piece ages remarkably like a fine wine, and oda has brought it up multiple times, I think one day we will, or at least I hope so, BTW, the next few arcs are done nicely in the anime but once you get to the dressrosa saga the anime drags that saga out egregiously so you might want to read that one and maybe include Fishman Island in that, but the anime does an OK job for the arcs after those ones and an incredible job for the current arc, so you could go back to watching after that.
I'm definitely hella late on this but to explain the part about the Shadows: When Moria steals your shadow and puts it in a zombie he doesnt have full control over it instantly, it actually take a while for the body and the shadow to be in sync. That's why he was just chilling for so long while Oars was rampaging, he was just waiting for his power to take full effect so he could 100% control Oars. Also explains some or the inconsistencies you found with the personalities of the zombies.
A quick correction, moria doesn't have to predict oars' movements and attacks to make him move with the shadows because he's literally controlling all of oars' movements directly from the cockpit. You know, like a mecha. It's the entire reason why Oda put him there, to make it clear he's controlling oars lol.
So Kuma's paw paw fruit is based off a cats paw. Cats love more than anything is pushing stuff around, be it them playing with their prey, pushing your cup off the edge of the counter, or slapping another cat in the face 100 times for annoying it. Kinda weird and never quite explained in the story but that's at least the idea behind his push powers.
My understanding of the zombies was that they have the personalities and skills of whoever's shadow they have, but the memories of the person whose body they have
@@ShutUpDenny my pleasure. The thing that made me think that was when Ryuma (the zombie with Brook's shadow) talked about his sword before giving it to Zoro. Cindry struggling against Hogback seemed like it might be related to that too. The only thing really going against that idea was Oars, since he didn't seem to have any memories
@@ShutUpDenny Because you're already in Marineford, then you probably know Oars Family personality, they are dumb so to have their own will overpowers other's control is basically non-existent. Even Oars death explanation should suffice, he died freezing because he didn't wear clothes
Just finished Thriller Bark myself (Though instead of watching the anime I’m reading the manga.). Usopp versus Perona is easily my favorite fight and with almost all the antagonist surviving this arc I’m looking forward to seeing where things go with them, especially Perona as she’s my favorite of this group of antagonist. Honestly my one issue with this arc/saga is the fight with Kuma at the end. I felt like it was just there to pad out the story. Like I’m fine with him showing up to give some exposition but I didn’t think they needed to fight him this early.
I'm really late to this and people prolly pointed it out already that I didn't see but the waver and the mini-merry are completely different. They're both in the docking as separate stuff. The waver is still a 1-2 person speed boat and the mini merry is a bit slower but can carry a bit more and is run by steam (maybe cola?)
The manga isn't as egregious about Nami's shower scene. Anime lingers a bit toooooo long...but yeah, insofar as it's playing on horror tropes, it's not too bad. The issue is less the shower scene and more the already lame Sanji womanizing gag going too far with his main motivator being less about Nami's safety and more envy towards Absalom's fruit cuz he's always wanted to do invisible sexual assault too. I know it's supposed to be a joke...but ungh, it's a bad one, and makes the bad aspects of Sanji's character worse. So agree with you there. All that said, Thriller Bark actually does have a coherent theme beyond what you noticed...it just only becomes apparent in retrospect/on re-reads.
I agree with you fully on the Nami and Sanji stuff. And that's interesting, I'm going to have to revisit everything once I finally catch up to pick up some of those themes!
It's hilarious how you guys notice those things right away because a woman is involved but completely ignore when lola was literally assaulting and forcing absolam to marry her. If the roles were reversed, you guys would be unbearable to listen to. There'd be no end to your virtue signaling.
@@thedoctor3528 this is clearly an obsession with you. Feel free to air some specifics of what your issue is with our takes instead of making general statements that have nothing to do with the points being made. If the roles were reversed? The roles were reversed in this arc as that’s exactly what Absolam is doing to Nami, was I unbearable in my coverage of that? Seemingly not since you don’t even realize the irony of your own comment. What specifically are you upset at in this video? I’m willing to hear you out but I don’t want generalizations
Cindry is one of my fav side-characters of all time. What development did you expect exactly? Because, in my opinion, I believe this was a perfect end to a character. It hints to the finality of death. The only thing able to break the ultimate death truth is devil fruits.
Since it’s October you should watch one piece movie 6 or “One Piece: Baron Omatsuri and the secret island”. It’s a horrifying movie due to its tone alone. The director is the same guy who did “the girl who leapt through time” and “Wolf children”
The zombies only have personalities dictated by their shadows. But the shadows can use the physical abilities of the corpses that they inhabit. This is why Brooke's shadow could use Ryumas swordsmanship and the maid's shadow could replicate Cindry's smile.
I don't min Moria as a villain. He's not ne of my faves but I think he's not bad, its interesting to see a villain characterised by laziness primarily, you don't see that often. My fave fight is the fight against Oars. as for Kuma: well, his powers allow him to push ANYTHING. Push air to make air bullets, push molecules to make explosives, push HIMSELF to teleport and push concepts as physical matter because devil fruit powers are insane. He's meant to demonstrate just how far a devil fruit's powers can be pushed when you apply your imagination rather than strct 'trianing to get stronger', as Oda says Devil Fruits work via imagination rather than boosting in strength. And the reason his power manifests as pawpads on his palms is because its part of his weird theming around teddy bears, as Kuma means bear.
I'm late to the party but for Zombies , their personality doesnt go away. Their free will does albeit slowly on some (Luffy for example). They cant go against Moria but they can go against others like Hogback, Absalom etc. Also i think Moria is a great character in terms of showing one of the Bad Ends that is possible for a pirate captain , its also Mirrored with Brrook as he is in a similar situation but they both act and handle the loss differently
Thriller Bark has always been a hit or miss with people. I think everyone can agree that the middle part of the story is a miss, but the start and end of it is amazing. If you haven’t yet, check out a One Piece movie called “One Piece: Baron Omatsuri and the Secret Island” it’s perfect for Halloween.
Thank you for the suggestion! I think I'm eventually going to watch all the One Piece movies and do a video on them so I'll keep that one in particular in mind!
I think the big thing about zoro taking luffys pain. Is this I'd a continuation of 2nd and 3rd gear hurting luffy. The crew is realizing luffy puts himself through a lot for them. And zoro taking all of luffys pain he cant complain luffy never complains what kind of man would be if he couldn't handle it how can he look at luffy taking it. This is a big jump in zoros grind to be stronger and stronger.
One Piece has a lot of sad moments, but I beleive there are three that always consistently make me cry: -Brook's Backstory -The death of Merry -Hiruluk's dying speech
Fun fact about Ryuma : he is from one of Oda's one shots ( Monster ) before One Piece got serialised . Basically Ryuma is wandering around looking for strong swordsmen to fight and an asshole is using an artifact to summon a dragon and Ryuma decapitates it . He did receive some changes compared to his one shot incarnation : he didn't have Shusui in the one shot and the one shot was set in a more western style town unlike how in the story he is from One Piece's version of Japan
Why no talk about the docking joke :(? But seriously this saga/arc is so confusing imo. Like most things in One Piece, parts of it gets better the more you learn but also some things are just unacceptable. Besides Sanji just being gross, to be nice about it, framing it as a dream of his, when dreams are literally a main theme of the entire story just weakens the overall theming imo. It just annoys me because this specific arc is why I cannot recommend One Piece to people because of this shit. On a positive note though, I wrote about how Zoro’s character was excellent in post Enis lobby and I believe that continues here. When Luffy is missing, Zoro naturally steps up and accepts his responsibility of first leading the fight against Oars and then fighting Kuma. Also just to note, Kuma mentioned Dragon at the end of the arc
No docking joke? Maybe that one went over my head 😬 And I see what you mean, this is definitely an arc where if you're guiding someone through the show for the first time you want to give them a heads up about haha but yeah this arc has some big time good Zoro moments
Idk. It didn't really hit me like Oda was planning something big for Cindry, I was quite satisfied with her backstory. I love this arc but I never enjoy the dragged out fights. Oda seems to be always afraid of dropping the action even for a short period. Would be nice if he'd just focus more on the lore over the fights.
This arc isn't the best but I think you got something wrong. the personality of the zombies is a mix of the shadow and the body but the zombie will lose not the personality, but the free will. this arc has the two best jokes of ALL one piece, that's Luffy pushing back the zombie and the "old man x zombie" thing. the sanji x absolon we can just pretend that never existed.
Overall I thought thriller bark was fine but it was the first arc that I felt really dragged on past it welcome to point were I was skipping episodes get to the ending even the substandard Skypea arc didn't grant on me due to its length as much as this one did
I can't agree more with your criticism towards how Oda (and Toei) portaits sexuality and harrassment. I hope you maintain that spirit till the end. There's a lot of people that retract their words for the social pressure.
@@ventusvanitas7544 yeah I only have an Xbox one like a chump :/ I played Spider-Man when I lived with something with a PS4 and loved it. I want to replay and talk about it and the second one on the channel but I’m on that PS5 hunt grind
let's be honest here. anyone with invisibility power would eventually peep. not to mention a bad guy from the start. obviously, he would do more than a peep. if you watch Hollow Man, the same thing happened. I would be suspicious as hell if someone with invisibility said they would never peep. nope. lol. so for me, Oda only shows the reality of having that power.
No denying that, and yeah I do remember that from the Hollow Man movie haha now that's a callback. Yeah I had no problem with how Absolam used his power since he was a bad guy and this was a horror story, definitely fit that Invisible Man trope of being an absolute creep
Thriller Bark sucks, Sabaody is prob my second fav, if not my favorite arc in pretime skip One Piece. Also, (no spoilers but) just finished up to chapter 700 myself and have this to say: Punk Hazard is a better Thriller Bark. Better horror, better gags, better action. On the topic of horror though, Evil Dead, The Thing, or Reanimator have to be my picks for best horror movies.
I just watched the Evil Dead movies for the first time this year, they as SUPREME. And that’s good to know, I didn’t know there were more spooky arcs to get through so that’s exciting!
@@ShutUpDenny I mean, it isn’t even meant to be a spooky arc, I just feel like it establishes dread more. It isn’t commonly seen as a “spooky arc” but I feel like it consists of a lot of concepts Thriller Bark was attempting but didn’t quite pull off. It really comes down to a more engaging ticking clock mechanic story telling wise. (I sorta started to rant about my misgivings on thriller bark after this so TLDR; The ticking clock is downplayed by the reminder they can run away with the Lola Pirates to the forest to be safe, the time limit is there to enforce a theme that wasn’t built up to and was SELF IMPOSED BY THE CHARACTERS, and the ticking clock mechanic has been done way better in previous and upcoming arcs) I feel Thriller Bark’s biggest flaw(besides Absolam being generally the worst) and the reason I think the arc feels like it’s dragging is the ticking clock isn’t engaging. Where in Alabasta, they are fighting the unknowable carnage of a bomb killing everyone, or Ennie’s lobby being a race against Robin’s execution, Thriller Bark’s ticking clock is a self imposed one the crew chooses to partake in. Yes their shadows were taken by force, but through the entire second act of the arc, we have a constant reminder that if they don’t get their shadows back by morning, they can just hide in the trees like the other victims have been. The only reason it comes down to the wire is because the crew are prideful and believe in Luffy. Character development wise, is a perfect way to sort of wrap up this arc, but narratively, it takes away any urgency, hence a story that drags its feet. This arc ALSO suffers from Island Syndrome (patent pending) where it doesn’t feel connected, save for the one character we know will be joining us after all of this. Except unlike Skypia, Thriller Bark didn’t have lore expanding stuff in it like the end of Sky Island did, it didn’t wrap into a previous arc like Skypia and Jaya did. It was “We trust our captain” which is a fine enough theme, but when Luffy is gone for two thirds of the story, for it to finally land on that being the moral, sorta seems forced. Which loops back to the self imposed time limit. The straw hats could have ran but because the theme HAD to be “we trust our captain” it felt shoe horned in. There were ways to deliver this theme properly in a way that engages with the narrative, but that wasn’t the case here. I couldn’t agree with you more about the flow of enjoyment: it was fun until the deliver back to the boat, slogs during thr middle portion (conveniently, they show up only a few chapters after Luffy loses his shadow and remove the tension from the arc) and then picks up with Luffy punch big man save the day. But as it stands it feels like a cannon filler arc.
arg. so dissappointed u dislike Thriller bark so much in ur review and few likes. Oda once said, He rather draw 10 pages of comedy then focus drawing on 1 cool page panel. I'm not sure why So many misses from u but Thriller bark one of my top 5 Arcs and top 3 Comedy arcs of One Piece of all time. zzz
I didn’t hate the arc, I really really enjoyed the beginning and the end of this arc a lot but I thought the middle suffered from bad writing. Hence why this arc is like a s’more for me. The first third was probably the funniest the series ever has been. Take in the whole review, I have to bring up the negatives but there’s a lot of positives I go through in detail
@@ShutUpDenny Just Subscribe now coz your reply and Honesty Review. Been watching all ur One Piece Arcs and Filler Reviews. Appreciated it very Much. But Which is more annoying lol? Hogback or Spamdan? 😂 If oda can create characters annoys the sh1t out of u, Its a win for him lol😆
Hey thank you so much!! And Hogback for suuuuure, just his laugh alone is beyond annoying. I actually really really liked Spandam as a villain, perfectly evil with a dash of bumbling moron
This man complains at Frank’s introduction that he is a cyborg and there are no others to set a precedent, than complains the Franky was the precedent and there are more cyborgs.
You must have me confused with someone else. This is my exact quote from my water 7 video about Franky’s introduction: “We have Franky challenge Luffy to a fight and we find out that he is a cyborg which is SO DOPE. I love how he isn’t just another devil fruit user like Nami and Luffy both assume to begin with, it keeps him unique.” Rewatch the video maybe or at the very least keep your lies to yourself
@@ShutUpDenny the key here is Moria fight one of the Yonko, Like another character xxxxxx didn't end well. so he just now Lazy and will use Zombie to be king of pirate. rather than be like Luffy head on. this just one piece of the pazzle
I disagree, Luffy knows he need his crew members to succeed but he doesn’t “use” them. The entire Moria crew utilizes the themes of abuse and servitude. None of them are willing to be friends with each other and they are really just a means to morons end.
Its sad to see that the dub haters got to you. You won't even show or talk about the dub anymore. They said bend the knee and thats what you did. What a shame.
Dude I’m sorry to disappoint you. I watched the show for over 300 episodes in the dub, I do really like it. But I rewatched those episodes in the sub and I just liked it more. Honestly I only really think the Luffy voice acting is that much better, but I think the translation of the text in the sub vs the lines in the dub deliver a more accurate representation of the source material. Plus it also helps to show the sub text in a video so people can fully get the context for my examples from the show. No dub hate here brother
@@ShutUpDenny I just hate that the sub elites always getting their way when they are the ones who are acting spoiled and down right mean to others. You experienced it first hand. Whenever someone like you (reactor and reviewers) dares says that they watch dub, the sub elites have the gall to bully everyone into their side. Because if you dare like the dub, that just means you picked the wrong side. And you need to be forced to like One Piece the way they like it. You aren't the first one, and you won't be the last. Like I said, they keep winning when they are in the wrong. They are the loudest in the community and I hate it because I prefer the dub to the sub, but unlike them, I don't attack sub people for liking the sub. I used to not be so angry about it but just seeing their side winning year after year after year, when they are the angry and controlling side of the OP community gets so frustrating.
