Open Court "Impact of Analytics in the NBA" 

It also doesn't work in the play-offs. The regular season's length (82 games) allows for swings of abnormality to swing _back._ The playoffs give you a maximum of 28 games for those abnormalities to swing back. A rate that is almost thrice as short. That's not even going into the fact that the skill floor for all the teams is now at least above the 45th percentile. Considering all the damn mathematics they use, it's stupid that they use analytics in the play-offs at all. The NBA literally built a catchphrase "Where [BLANK] happens" around it.

Doesn't have to be tho they can legit compliment each other.

Its not true. Midrange dont matter anymore because people realized its not a high rewarding shot

@@TheKiid810 same with post play...teams would love a player like shaq battling in the post 30x a game fishing for 2's at 54% rate and shooting free throws for 1's at 50% while they are on the other side pushin the pace shooting 38% from 3 and getting shaq caught in matchup problems on defense giving up open 3's. I think players like shaq and Barkley see this and realize they would not have the careers they did if they played today

u see here how analytics are wrong ,he is not top 5 not even close

Exactly. Lebron fans only use stats when it's convenient.

LeBron definitely stat padding last couple years.

I believe both you and Isiah are getting it backwards here. The reason Jordan's the goat, Lebron's top 2 and prime Shaq was maybe the most dominant ever is b/c they were able to get to the rim and take high % shots at will. If Isiah was able to get to the rim like them then of course he would do that more often instead of taking long jump shots which are still worth only 2 points. There's a reason guys like Jordan, Lebron and Shaq dominate the game more than Isiah, they were just so athletic that they could get high % shots compared to their peers. Even Jordan's mid-range game was high % because he could elevate above defenders like no one else. The reason Isiah didn't win MVPs isn't because of him taking shots farther from the basket, it's because he had no choice but to do so.

Every team heavily leans into analytics and has a robust analytic department

@@ddp5406 can you prove your statement?

@@russell2890 According to the NBA stats-reference site NBAstuffer, all 30 teams in the league now have analytics departments (compared to 2008, when there were only five), and the league’s headquarters has a Basketball Strategy & Analytics group, as well. Among the organization’s latest tech-focused initiatives It keeps deleting my comment with links to the source...just google it, it isnt a secret why mid-range jumpers and post plays are nearly non existent outside of a few players in the right situations.

Steve Kerr in an interview stated analytics played a big part on Warriors. They adapted their playstyle and decision making, from early Suns coached by D’Antoni, who valued statistics very much. (Kerr was Sun’s GM even) Would you say the Warriors didn’t win any titles?

@@bruh_rick I'd say that having Kevin Durant, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green and a certain kid by the name of Wardell mattered more than analytics, but if you want to give the max extension to the guys crunching numbers instead, that's you.

There's no need for analytics if you actually watched both guys play. One is a killer and the other is well not for a lack of a better word, a bust

This is also just one cherry picked example when we see analytics feeding us BS all the time. This season Harden was by far the best player based on VORP when we know that there are several players that are much better than he is. He rates nearly two points better than Leonard and you'd have to be an idiot to pick Harden over him. Giannis just recorded the highest single season PER over Wilt Chamberlain when anyone with eyes can see that they're not even close in terms of talent and impact. This is also extremely faulty since blocks and steals were not even recorded in Wilts time and we know for fact he was one of the most prolific shot blockers in league history. Just like Chuck said analytics is for math nerds that have no talent and I wouldn't know Daryl Morey if he walked into the room right now. Analytics messed up the entire game, basketball is about entertainment. I don't get any enjoyment in seeing teams jack up 80 threes total per game.

Good stuff, man.

@@axelarroyo3286 actually, analytics suggest that Wilt’s career was overrated, aka not as impactful as many people would assume. He played every minute of every game, took every shot, and was very selfish. His heliocentric, highly ball-dominant, FLOOR raising game just isn't conducive to winning in a playoff setting. Analytics prefers ceiling raisers, the players with higher playoff equity. To be honest, Giannis is probably superior.

@@samhartje723 You saying Giannis is better than Wilt is exactly what's wrong with analytics. Analytics doesn't work in comparing the two because they played in different eras... You are correct that Wilt was a ball dominant individual scorer that didn't impact team success in his earlier years, but he changed his game later to a style more conducive of winning as a team. His two championship teams were two of the greatest of all time, so Wilt does raise the ceiling of his teams to all time great status. Tell me how does analytics quantify eras? Does it take into account civil inequality, player empowerment, coaches offensive strategy, no free agency, tighter NBA rules such as traveling, carrying, and offensive fouls during the 60s, or how some stats/awards such as blocks, steals, and all defense weren't introduced yet. Gather step = travel Euro step = travel Push cross = carry Shoulder bump = charge List goes on and on....

I had to fast forwards it 😂

That's why they never won a ring

@@DemonKing-oi4jd Lakers just won a ring and have a robust analytic department too Morey is now in philly and has them looking better than ever Analytics winning

@@ddp5406 If you think so, but I would disagree if you are talking about Morey ball. Even so they haven't won a ring. I would say the Lakers won because of LeBron and AD.

@@DemonKing-oi4jd i dont think so...its just a fact...there are barely any post up's or mid range shots in the game anymore..this is all from analytics U know which team is posting up, shooting more mid range and less 3's than alot of other teams in the league? Daryl Morey and the 6ixers...proving the numbers and analytics can be applied to ur teams strengths and stars instead of everybody just trying to copy a formula just because it worked in golden state...not everybody is steph curry or james harden

@@ddp5406 Well now I'm confused on your stance. When I mention analytics, I'm mostly speaking of the 3pt revolution. Which team in 2010s won without midrange and with the 3pt analytic movement. 2011 Dallas maybe, but Dirk dominated in post and midrange 2012 Miami LeBron and Wade 2013 Miami LeBron and Wade 2014 Spurs Kawhi, Duncan, Parker 2015 This probably best example but Kyrie and Love injured 2016 LeBron and Kyrie 2017 and 2018 KD was difference maker and best 1v1 (ie best midrange player) 2019 Kawhi 2020 LeBron and AD which is practically the most versatile twin towers So where are these analytics teams winning championships?

West was underrated. He loss a lot of Finals which hurts his accolades. He is top 15 or 20 at least.

Jerry west is easily top 11-20 of all time. He had high numbers without the 3pointer.

@@ericfurst6091 Perhaps.....but not top 5!!!

@@fieldofdreams1986 i never said that. 11-20, thats it.

@@ericfurst6091 Talking about the kid that said it....

Analytics don’t say to not take mid-range shots. Basically, it suggests that if a player is not good enough at them, say south of 40%, then they should not take them. Only the best mid-range shooters should take them.

Actually buying behavior can be affected by sociological factors which are science based through "analytics" based on research - both quantitative and qualitative. Also, buying behavior in the stock market is largely based on analytics. The thing about analytics is it takes into account the numbers after the fact; it gives you a look on how one behaves through, simply put, statistics (numbers). The guys in the show aren't just familiar with how analytics in general works and it's not their fault since you'd usually need a bachelor's degree from a prestigious university, like Reggie mentioned - MIT, to fully grasp the concept. You can see them reject the idea from the get go as it's the antithesis or everything they know regarding the game and how it works. Normal human behavior

@@sergiorenatoreyes6967 modern stock market is bad example to bring into your argument because it allows multitude of ‘actions’ , ‘techniques’, ‘behaviors’ (call them what you want ) - for instance ‘front ending’ that have no business being there to begin with. I don’t wanna TLDR . Analytics can be , are, a useful tool , if applied correctly and people are aware of limitations. Sadly NBA follows in the same pattern as wider crony corporatism eco system it exists in . Brilliantly conceived idea turns into FAD , and becomes…. Once 7th biggest company in US not so long ago , named Enron , was really keen on having as many Six Sigma suits…. Lmao.

@@digitalcommunist6335 yea there are definitely better examples I agree. I just hate it that some guys in the NBA don't appreciate how much analytics has helped teams in succeeding and how it revolutionized and evolved the game to what it is today

@@sergiorenatoreyes6967 haha agreed . Utilizing data science as long as you are aware of its limitations , especially dealing with activities heavily reliant on quirks of human behavior is no brainer. It definitely should be looked as useful tool … I just don’t know that current state of NBA is actually better then it was back in 90s & early 2000s. Overwhelming majority of people i know , including younger folk thinks opposite. But that really has nothing to do wit analytics. Data scientists had no part in allowing flopping, make rules that made game softer then what women used to play decade ago, allowed influx of kids that might have athletic gifts but are totally underdeveloped because they never played college…. I can go n and on.

😂😂

Lmao

I can play ball better than nerds 😂😂

They’ve played the game for the majority of their lives at the utmost highest level buddy. Keep your mouth shut, they know what they’re talking about.

New doesn't mean good, pal. Actually in this case, it's much worse, because it falsely rank players and of course, it misses countless aspects of the game.

Just stfu man this is OG moments 🙄

​@@adittya9002The highest level of basketball is being played today, not in the 90s.

@@Zion122 🤡

U don’t need analytics to know Reggie Shaq cwebb chuck r great players

The problem is it leads to impacting the game negatively. You lose strategy when you don't use the whole court, players have to play in a way best not suited for their talent/skills, and glue guys like Iggy are undervalued. Now this generation are a bunch of stat padders that play for analytics instead of trying to win games.

@@DemonKing-oi4jd you don't really understand analytics then

@@samhartje723 What do you mean then, care to share some examples?

@@DemonKing-oi4jd the whole point of using analytics is to utilize “strategy.” Like them or not, but analytics and statistics have been deeply engrained in the game for a long time.

It's been four years since this video and talent, chemistry and coach adjustments still matter more than analytics. The Phoenix Suns of this ('20-'21) season would give Morey a heart attack in regards to how many "bad shots" and "disadvantaged adjustments" they make.

@@Sizdothyx Your comment literally just proved you're one of those fans that's just talking straight out of "feelings", and doesn't value my reply after this: Phoenix Suns happen to position themselves with great roster optimization, by taking smart and good shots, and a coach who was influenced by statistics based small-ball system (check out "0.5 Offense" and "7 Seconds" series) If statistics shows your players having better shot percentage at freethrow/midrange areas, a coaching staff will optimize their plays for it. 0.5 Offense shows the merit and characteristics of modern basketball, and with data backing it up. The Suns happen to hire more than 4 analytics personnel in their Operations department, that's more than teams that are having under .500 winning percentages. Like I mentioned in another thread where you replied me: Data itself doesn't provide any value, it's the combination of usage that does the trick, and data needs to be played on offense and defense. Play smart always work better than play hard. Do your homework before you comment your "feelings".

@@bruh_rick So basically, what you're saying is that I can pull a Spurs on at least a 51 percent event frequency rate, right? I mean, since it's all about data and execution, why do salary tiers even exist? You open up the floor to take the shots that players give you. You don't need an arithmetic foundation to know that. You keep going on about statistics, but in the play-offs, that's where your models die. Because if numbers were the be-all end-all to sport, players like Kobe Bryant wouldn't even find themselves on a team from all the "forced shots" that they make. Analytics models have never helped players do better. They're good for people who want to sound like they know the game, but any idiot can tell you that a pass to the guy who's open after drawing the double-team is a better shot than forcing a three before the defense collapses for your "value" shot. You take your best shot and keep the other guy from getting it in. Analytics is _fine_ for regular season basketball, but the playoffs are where anomalies are in excess. You play _by the numbers_ in an elimination game with a skill-gap that _minute_ means you're not going to break away. It's why the best coaches _adjust_ against trends to lock-down the opposition offense and expose the opposition defense as best as they can. If your team is built to just stack and feast on wins, you're not winning crap. Ask your Patron Saint Daryl Morey how many of those 50-plus win seasons he'd trade for an inefficient .395 FG with scrambling defenders on the way to a Championship. He'd be an idiot to say "none of them". If your currency is just "winning seasons" as a measure of success, then don't bother playing sports. Like Kawhi said: "Larry O is the only one that matters". The only time analytics works is when you're dealing with third tier players (role-players) who don't effect the ceiling or the floor of the team, and even that barely accounts for 10 percent of the game, at best. Everything else is won with the best players with the most honed instincts; a fact that operates in an almost 95 percent frequency, with the only exception to buck both trends being the 2013-14 Spurs, who actually _did_ win using analytics to bring out player values, and even then they had the veterancy of three of their five then-greatest ever players to hold that ship down. You tell me how analytics heats up and cools down your superstar in the play-offs on an 80 percent hit-rate, then start talking. Just throwing out some math for you, since you love it so much.

Yeah , analytics really helped this season. Lmao. Fkin flavor of the day imbeciles. Back in the day, Enron suits were really keen on Six Sigma dudes. Lmao.

Great, then the answer is simply you're not qualified to process all of those data. The model you're using to process the data is wrong, it's imperfect and it's lacking in many ways. You want to look at the stat sheets without looking at how the team is run, because the only way to measure that is by watching the game. If you don't watch it and just look at imperfected data collection, you'll end up with Russel Westbrook being the best player in the league. Wilt Chamberlain falls behind in many statistical number. But any dummy who goes out and just watch him plays know that's he on a different scale as an athlete altogether and the data is falsely representing his level.

Matthew Ruto it doesn’t have to be either/or. It can be both. Every team uses analytics in some form or fashion

newrecruit100 nah dude stats don’t tell you everything I’m not saying stats are 100% useless because that’s false but it’s not a big thing like everyone thinks it is eye test is always better than stats

newrecruit100 kobe is way more skilled than lebron. He’s just in the best shape and damn near indestructible. He’s a hot potato passer that needs spot up shooters.

LBJ is better he is higher on All-Time Lists

How in the blue hell can LeBron be your favourite player and yet you think Kobe is better?

You must be one of those bums

Faris Natour if you're were actually listening.