Thanks for sharing your knowledge and for keeping in mind that not everyone has millions of dollars to spend. Particularly appreciated the comments regarding knockoffs performing roughly as well, as I'm sure many other viewers would also.
Been binging a few of your videos lately, really like the content you guys put up. Love listening to Paul share his knowledge. My new favourite channel !! :)
@@laurabrown2014 You are putting the same advertisement link in multiple video posts, top spamming! And it's not soundproof curtains that is good for audio. It's high density cotton, polyester or wool curtains to absorb the lower frequencys 👍🏾
i recently gifted someone I really care about a Sonos Connect amp, a pair of Mirage FPS bookshelf speakers and a Mirage 8" down firing sub. When I tested it in my house it sounded just ok and I was worried she may not be too pleased with the sound after all it does not compare to my 3 systems in I have in the 3 different floors of my house. To my amazement the music (Tidal Premium) sounded more musical and pleasing with nice tingly sparkles at lower volumes. Her small open concept bungalow is decorated with crystals, glass, granite, rugs, all kinds of wall art and light drapery covering the windows which I think attributed to this pleasing effect. Audiophiles will tell you this type of decor is a bad idea and up until now including me. We have to stop talking as if we know all the answers because we cannot calculate for every application and taste, the different combinations are infinite. And I was not about to tell her she needed get rid of some stuff get some bass traps and sound absorption on her walls if I wanted to continue spending my weekends there. I think this small system was the perfect combination for a small space with lots of irregular hard and soft objects creating e perfect amount of reflections and diffusion.
Yes! Resonators don’t get enough attention. It’s not all about absorbing and diffusing. Not all resonance is bad, without it, we don’t have sound. ;-) v2.stereotimes.com/post/acoustic-system-resonators
I love that you mentioned using a book case as a diffuser. My dad and I have a good sized music room and behind my drum set are a couple of bookshelves completely filled with dvds. The other day it occurred to me that I could stagger the dvds (move them forward or back on the shelves) in order to diffuse the drums and that might help balance the drums with the other instruments/vocals in the room.
I'm running some old HPM-40s in a small bedroom. Having very good results angling them up about 15-20 degrees with wooden wedges underneath. Cheap effective solution.
You’ve got to love this video. Pauls starts out by saying that fortunately there is a lot more science and facts about room acoustics than some of those other “contentious” issues. Then goes on to completely ignore or contradict all the science 🤣
I see someone opening a paper written letter on RU-vid and I'm like "nah, I don't buy it"...but then I spot the open reel tape recorder in the back, so ok.
If it was clear and basic why watch half a dozen times though? The more I'm digging into room treatments, the only simple answer I've found is that there is no simple answer to be found. It's measurements, many variables, with ultimately some trial and error as even a room simulation can't account for all the construction variables with your room, let alone the system and all the other stuff you're putting in there. Plus your big fat belly causing room mode resonances lol
Golden room as desired: 1h:1.6w:2.6l. Thinking that refracted/deflected/diffused sounds related to sound stage. Direct and delayed first reflection sounds related to sound image. Is it right?
Hello Paul from Montreal, Canada. How are you? Hope you're well. I love your videos. I have modest system, a fully restored recapped Pioneer A-6 amp (1982) with a set of Sound Dynamics R818's made in Canada by company Audio Products International (Paradigm, Mirage, Energy, Athena) with a Pro-Ject DAC between the amp and a good quality Panasonic Blu-ray connected to the Dac via optical cable. The sound is really good but Im wondering without breaking the bank what things can I do, mod or change to get a more live intimate debthness in sound? Do you sell your dac products for example to Canadians? Thank you.
Paul McGowan Hi Paul. Based on the el cheapo system lol I have mentioned component wise what do suggest I do or change? I will look into the Golden Ears. Thx.
Floyd Tool’s book on small room acoustics is a good starting point for anybody interested in the subject. Understanding precedence effect is a must know for laying the groundwork for further learning.
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Room gain and standing waves against a wall can be advantageous in a small room. I moved to a small apt and was worried about getting volume complaints. But upon initial setup I found having the seating against the wall has been to my advantage in that it gives great bass in that area without high spl. Moving away from the wall the sound is much lower, my music doesn't penetrate to my neighbors. I have acoustic treatment I was going to install on the wall behind the seating but found I don't need it. Standing waves can be an advantage.
This topic suggests at least three distinct scenarios for audio processing: treatment for a recording space, a mixing/mastering space, and a listening space. Only the latter is discussed. Then (see below) 24revealer raises a fourth, unrelated to audio production. My guess is that each requires its own solution, but how to do the first three in a tiny "home studio"?
RPG Inc skyline. Omg. I've loved the BAD diffuser and all of their products. I'm lucky to have a large enough room that my ceiling is the 1st incedent reflection and the rest of them are either blocked or beyond 12ft. I have a king size bed and use a freestanding shelving unit as a headboard/ speaker stand. I've got over an inch of perforated rubber pads and 2" wedge foam treatment on the shelving unit. And a single summed mono subwoofer central but off the floor. Cheap gear great results.
There seem to be lots of videos that deal with speakers and acoustics. I can't seem to find much on how to deal with noise from a group speaking in a room. Here's the scenario. 20 to 30 of us meet to talk around a large table. As long as just one individual speaks, things are okay. The room is about 25 X 35 X 8 feet. Everything is a hard surface. When we take breaks, there are small groups of 3-4 and the noise is so bad I have to go outside as it is too much to hear the person beside you. What would a good way to deal with this be? Carpet runners, window curtains, etc?
I like the talk about book cases. It's practical. The thing about book cases is that you can get or build in nice solid book cases and adjust endlessly by shifting books and pillows or stuffed animals around. Not an ideal solution, just better than listening to the room ring.
Nonya Damnbusiness I used a book case and filled the bottom two shelves with fibreglass insulation and covered them with material to form a great bass trap. The top 4'shelves are full of books and weird objects. It's not very scientific but it seems to work ok.
Anyone remember milk crates? One thing I've done. Is to get a bunch of them and zip tie them together and build a shelving system from them. In the process I found with enough of them stacked and zip tied. They works great for diffusing sound.
I have a question. I'm finishing up a home theatre in basement. My speakers will be towed in towards the sweet spot. Can curtains on the left and right act as diffusers/absorbers?
Hay there, Paul enjoying you low key mature feed back a gentle man and a scollar a rare find . What is your thought on the kaiotoca eye ball ? Looking forward to your possible reply .
Audio technical ATLP 20 with preamp Disconnect it and go directly into my amplifier that has an Audio out or leave it in. Will it improve the sound by taking it out
i like my absorption, tho i understand the diffuser principle and that it will work. just the silence you can get in a room with lots of absorption attracts me, the whole room feel different just to walk into, just like a cinema. any clap test i do is just so muted, i did not spend much money at all, and got absorption on all 6 walls in a little office. mostly pillows and foam. my bass trap is a whole corner from floor to ceiling with big sofa cushions. but getting the ceiling fixed was harder, got some strings holding up a blanket and some other stuff. and a long haired carpet. think i got about 70% coverage. listening to music in here is quite amazing, not to mention the ambiance is great.
Dang. Does it depend on the speakers as well? I've been taught absorption, absorption, absorption in small rooms. Then ive read diffusers only on rear wall unless you sit close to the rear wall, in which case- diffusers on the front wall and absorption at the rear directly behind your head. I haven't a single diffuser. This hobby, man. Let's start again. I'm starting to think room is most important factor, other than your ears of course.
Hi: I am wondering if some kind of curtains could be good difusers. If so, could I leave the curtains a little above the speakers or take them much higher. Best regards Azhar Zaidi
Too much absorption sucks the life out of the speakers natural tone. For a normal living room - a carpet, thick heavyweight curtains, lots of soft furnishings, little to no glass objects. For the front wall a couple of sound absorption wall art behind the speakers. And some diffuser wall art on the rear wall.
@@azharzaidi3264 The audio dealer by me believes in big curtains so much, he has floor to ceiling curtains, even though he has no windows on those walls.
Good stuff. To get deeper into small-room acoustics, Acoustic Fields has a lot of good info. I can't afford his products, except for a few pieces of 2" foam, but I have applied some of his techniques and have been more than satisfied. Most modern smartphones make pretty good spectrum analyzers. Be careful. I made my room sound so good I avoid leaving it.
@@rb032682 Very good point. In a similar vein, I have worked on various custom motorcycles over the years, and of course I've had guys ask how they can get the best performance for the least investment. My answer, while sometimes not well received, was the obvious: lose that giant beer gut, gain 20 - 30 hp for negative dollars.
Shoes, specifically trainers. They are hollow and made of thick fabric and dense rubber soles with air bubbles in them. I line some up behind me where the back wall meets the floor, and it seems to work quite well. Also a big pile of dirty clothes in the corner of the room helps too :)
Hi Paul: My wife calls me ”Paul’s addict”. And I am guilty as charged. So, as a true Paul’s Addict, I am always looking for your videos that I haven't seen and learnt from. And now, I write to Scott too. Being a true Paul's son he is really helpful. I now believe in genes. This video like all, left me wondering. I you accept questions here then here it is. I am wondering if some kind of curtains could be good difusers. If so, could I leave the curtains a little above the speakers or take them much higher? Best regards Azhar Zaidi
Just because the direct signal will hit your eardrum slightly sooner doesn't mean you're not going to hear just as much reverb bouncing around after the fact. You're still hearing your room just as much.
What are the dimensions to build a new room? Please, I am interested in build a room for self enjoyment of music and cinema and I am interested in listen below to 30Hz (C1). 11,5 meters by 7 meters by 4 meters (ceilling) is a good room?
Hi Paul, my room size is 21ft length by 10.5 ft wide. I have placed my Vandeersteen 2C at 50 inches away from the front wall and 1.5 feet from the side wall. sitting position is 9 feet. Please advice if this is the ideal position for speaker placement
Hello fellow members ive been facing a major problem that im unable to find the bass in my listening position. The moment i hit the back row the bass is 10x tighter the lower frequencies are audible aswell as felt but the moment i move in the front row, while standing the bass is audible and fine but the moment i sit in my perfect triangular position the bass is gone. I tried different speaker positions aswell as distances but the problem remains. If im facing bass nulling how to direct bass a bit forward? If i need bass traps how exactly will they help? Attaching a small video of my room if im doing anything wrong please guide me. Room dimensions are roughly 20ft hy 16ft Thanking in advance
Seems you might want to clarify the difference between a recording space and a listening space. Seems you were primarily focusing on defusing sound in a listening space.
I found a good plan to build a qrd diffuser. Placed it on front wall between speakers. And It brought the stage more centered. Speakers almost disappear.its also recommended to have one behind the listening position. But depending on the room theres lots of options.
Have a look at the GIK acoustics series here on RU-vid, lots of information. Key thing is looking at RT60 times, and addressing reflections within the first 20ms and within 20dB.
Those are terms most of us 'home studio'would not like not like to hear even we know there are a lot of information on RU-vid whattever ,those calculations concerning accoustic treatments are what even makes things much harder to grasp ,to be honest for low budget buddies we are out of drama .
I wonder if this is why tilting speakers upwards is really effective. The wall behind will reflect the unwanted sound down into the carpet and the upfiring wanted sound will eventually bounce up and won’t superimpose as much
Your math is likely correct on that. I have had great results from angling my speakers up a bit. I also get the best imaging by not toeing them in at all and also maintaining an equilateral triangle between the two speakers and myself.
@@danmarjenka6361 the equilateral triangle is really great actually. My room however is so small that I need to toe them in or otherwise I’ve got big reflections off the side wall and back wall to worry about.
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@@laurabrown2014 that's very cool. In my previous comment I was making a joke. Quoting Anchorman the movie. But I am also interested in your non-joking link, so thank you. Also, watch Anchorman if you haven't seen it.
Diffusion at the first reflection points is going to be close to you so it will be problematic. Firstly, diffusers are not perfect and up close they really colour the sound. Also 'diffused' means spread out. Up close you won't perceive it in that way, you'll just experience the direct reflection with less energy. The resulting late order reflections that have bounced around the room a bit are what you can call 'diffuse' sound. To maximise this effect you want your diffusers further away e.g. on the back wall. Stick to absorption at the first reflection points, especially in a small room. Note I am not saying Paul is wrong, but he is used to this effect and it works for him. It doesn't for most. Also if he is using books for diffusion he will be getting more of an absorption effect anyway! If you are in Europe and looking for diffusers, absorbers, bass traps etc there are a great selection on Thomann these days
I tried absorbing and diffusing in one of my small rooms. Diffusing certainly sounded better and made the room sound larger than it is. When I absorbed, the room shrunk big time and so did the soundstage.
@@-MarkWinston- there’s always pros and cons with any approach. In studio you want monitoring accuracy so you use absorption s as supported by objective measurement and theory. Hifi rooms are about listening pleasure which is subjective so if you prefer diffusion at the expense of accuracy then there’s nothing wrong with that. Diffusion can also aid accuracy but only where you have enough distance and normally on later reflections - they are too narrowband to deal with first order reflection points
@@yellowledbutterhow about mixing diffuser panels and aborbsion panels on the back wall? So 1 diffuser, next to it an absorber, then diffuser, etc. Wouldn’t that work?
I don't understand why diffusion is touted as being more important than absorption here. The biggest problems in small rooms in my experience are smearing of the stereo immage and standing waves. Diffusion doesn't solve those things effectively, since they don't reduce the power of reflections (broadly speaking) and don't reach very far down the frequency spectrum (unless they're so big that they don't fit in at small room). So for an accurate listening (not recording) environment I would suggest as much deadening of the room as possible. This will give you the best frequency response and imaging.
Paul doesn't know what he's talking about. Small rooms have a problem with low frequencies and you can't treat Low Frequency problems with a diffusor. Diffusors only deal with mid and high frequencies and they tend to help make a small room sound bigger, by diffusing the sound. But you still need absorption to deal with side wall reflections AND proper low frequency absorption to deal with the low frequencies typically in the 100hz and below range, with 50hz and below being the biggest problem. I would seek out someone that can actually help you that knows what they are doing. I read RB's comments and he found Acoustic Fields. I have also listened to rooms with their products and I can honestly say, they know what they are doing. probably one of the few that actually have products to fix low frequency issues in small rooms. I would recommend, to go to AF's site, fill out the room form and talk to them about your specific needs rather than guessing. They might be able to suggest things that you can build yourself since they do cater to DIYers as well as sell pre-built products or ground up custom rooms. Guessing wastes time and money and Paul is wasting both with his recommendations. Paul's recommendations are horrible. It's no wonder he's not in the acoustic treatment business. You have to take measurements. if you have a room that's similar to another and they have the measurements, they can help you. otherwise you are guessing and you'll most likely guess wrong, use the wrong product and not fix the problem. Why would you want to do that?
Yeap, I have actually found some flaws in acoustic fields videos too, but their products seem to be really good and they give you the option to just buy the materials and build it yourself for a very reasonable price. I'm not sure about the Activated Charcoal acoustic properties they claim but I'm sure it's a better option than what this guy Paul is saying.
usir.salford.ac.uk/23061/1/JASMAN1321239_1.pdf One thing to note, this study wasn't using AF's activated carbon filters, which they make the pellets, but they also make the filters a certain way for their application. And they have patents protecting their IP. The DIY doesn't include the Activated Carbon filters unless you buy them. If you use the DIY plans, then at least it's a good dual wall diaphragmatic absorber, it's just more effective with the filters, and yeah, it saves money. People can also do DIY for wall construction so if you want to build the technology into the walls, they can facilitate that too. It's better to do it within the wall if you can. I talked to the owner and he told me he's involved with a bunch of top end studio projects after they heard the improvement in the mastering room at Capital Records. He said he'll be posting more videos on those other projects. I think he also said their was a large 2 channel private listening room that he's going to update the information/photos of the project. It was a ground. up build.. I actually went into of his rooms a few years back. From that demonstration of his treatment as I've heard and used plenty of the typical room treatment products and designs, I've never been in a better sounding room. Especially with low frequency. The bottom end was tight, it had great attack and decay, note separation, etc.. I know some of his videos might not be explained as well as he could have, but he's trying to explain things in a more easy to understand since most people aren't experts in acoustic engineering, but most of his videos are pretty good. I was taken aback and after that one demo. I think anyone that's going to build a studio or a high end listening room should at least find one of his rooms and listen to the product in action.. He does send out evaluation units when available, as he knows people need to try them in their own environment, so you might want to see if they'll do that with you. If you're interested. Here's a link to the University Study. usir.salford.ac.uk/23061/1/JASMAN1321239_1.pdf I read a while back, can't find the link, I think it was KEF that was playing around with activated carbon for internal cabinet fill material, but I don't know what happened since they probably didn't think of mfg. their own pellets because the pellets on the market are more for water or air purification, not sound absorption. AF told me they spent a lot of time getting the right pellet size, etc. and mfg. process. because he tried every available AC pellets on the market and they had to ultimately mfg. their own pellets.
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Agreed, Quadratic diffusers need big dimension to attack the most problematic frecuencies in small rooms; BASS notes, plus it's recommended to be at least 10 feet away from the diffuser to work properly
In small room you need at least absorbing material at first reflection. Ceiling, floor, walls on sides, and wall behind the speakers to get it optimal. Then you can go with some diffusion too. But most rooms people live in has some diffusion in them.
@@dougleydorite some fluffy carpet can be an ok treatment for the floor. But with treatment, you must not go overboard. Add gradually until desired effect. Too much treatment is also a bad thing.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 I’m actually in the process of removing my carpet because it only absorbed past 750hz, making the whole room sound dead. Personally, my first reflection is from the desk and not the ground
I agree diffusing is better than absorbing. During the time I worked as an EMC test engineer, we had a small an-echoic chamber for performing tests. One weekend, during our leisure time, we used it to experiment with audio equipment. So we listened to music with complete absence of reflections, it sounded awfully strange and far from pleasant.
It always depends on the problem your eyes trying to fix, and nobody will ever listen in an anechoic chamber. Never the goal.. and that is just really more like headphones.. so people do like the chamber, they just don't like the other effect on the human body. Nothing to do with the music and reflections
Too much absorption makes for a dead listening experience, just like listening to a band in a club/closed room vs. hearing them outside is a vastly different experience. I much prefer bands in enclosed spaces, outside 75% of the energy is lost to the open sky. I’m always shocked at the difference in my enjoyment to the same bands outside and inside.
Are towels more affective than premium acoustic panels? I've been looking at GIK or Primacoustic or Auralex. I think GIK use Knauf Insulation Earthwool 45kg and 60kg/m3 in their UK products ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pABvTWSxOes.html
actually yesterday i went in the backyard with my monitors. the big thing that improves is stereo perception and some leveling of bass freq. the problem is that you still have some walls even if they are far, and a sort of floor, which still influences bass. then you may have a small wind that annoys your ears, and you still have some sort of neighbors which make some sounds, and because of this you have to raise the volume so you can hear the details of the music. it's not worth it, at least in my case. i prefer to improve on the first reflection points, and even eq OUT some freq in the bass. imo closets are good for acoustics, a 98% closed closet with clothes traps low freq. i haven't tried membrane traps..
at what point do we worry too much about the tech and not enjoy the music ? how much of the newer tech is hype? can a high end retro system have any areas of superiority to spike lacking in other areas ?
I don't bother about absorbers etc apart from acoustic open cell foam on my speaker stands. Have thick underlay under a carpet plus a big wall canvas and curtains other side. I just sit back and enjoy the music coming out of my bookshelf speakers 🎶
Diffusion is great but it's really really hard to diffuse bass frequencies (except if you live in blackbird studio ^_^ ) you still should use some absorbers for bass like bass traps, it's so important. And diffusion works if you have large diffusion surfaces, so it's expensive too
Alexanre, you're right, but the question of the video was about small room acoustics where you can't control bass really with any kind of treatment except active bass traps which are too expensive. Paul was right to mention about diffusion. Skyline diffusers, for instance, do both equally -- diffusion and absorbtion thanks to the nature of math formula and construction. The Blackbird diffusers's lowest frequency they are designed to work with is 170 Hz.
There's no such thing as a perfect absorber, indeed. Yet there's also no such thing as a perfect diffuser. What to apply depends entirely on the circumstance and application.
Stephen is pronounced Steven, Stephan is spelt with an a. I have the same name spelt with ph and for some reason people really get confused by this. So Stephen is Steven and Stephan is Stephan.
I always wondered what the best shape to defuse sound is. I see most that are just wedges in either virticle or horizontal patterns. Wouldn't something like a pyramid shape be better at defusing the sound? A pointy pyramid would help absorb high frequencys and broader pyramids would help absorb lower frequencies. Does this make sense?
@@chinmeysway Is that the only type of disfuser that you need to cover the full frequency range? Let's say 1-100,000hz? Or am I still going to need a combination of every type of disfuser in separate panels?
My room is awful 6m x5.5 3 metre windows on 2 walls. Curtains etc, the windows rattle at around 130 Hz. Got it sounding as good as I can get it. The wife stops me doing more..Still very bright though.
Scratching my head on a few of points of advice in the video. First, most of my online reading recommends against small room diffusion. Second, diffusion, like absorbers, affects a limited range of frequencies. Third, bookshelf diffusion won’t sound anything like quadratic, right? I see a lot of people attacking sound issues with weird DIY that seems to possibly make things worse. (Towels, foam, carpets)
