"Old School" is a bowdlerized term, but for me it just means doing it however you want, which is the basic RPG philosophy anyway. Hell, the very first published RPG ever made from 1974 ended with an afterword that pretty much says "Play this however you want. You don't need the author's permission to change anything." You can't get more old school than the oldest RPG, and the oldest RPG is doing it Hank's way.
Right but you also need players that follows suit exactly. Otherwise different opinions on how to interpret and rule things make the game very difficult in the long run. Thats why modern games try to formulate every tiny bit.
@@FalkFlak Except modern games fail. Don't fool yourself...nothing is playtested. RPGs are the easiest thing in the world to balance because the dice tend to do whatever they want regardless of your faux "bonus".
I agree, thats why I wrote they try to do it, you see. I played enough "systems" to realise formulating RPG is impossible but with many OSR systems the blanks the group has to fill by their own are as big as mount everest. In some aspects its almost less work to make a new system from scratch.
“Advanced “ OSE material is Necrotic Gnome’s support of AD&D first edition material. It handles everything very simply and smoothly, giving options for both race as class and separate race and class play styles for Demi Humans.
Yeah I play it just like this. My players don't really know about classes. I just asked them what they want to be, what do they think is cool? We are running with a Viking, Caveman, Elf Ranger and a Bear Shifter/Healer right now. And a donkey.
On your point about the core of TTRPG being friendship i think that's really the crux of it (and of most things tbh). The CR crew aren't voice actors using DnD solely as some odd practice exercise, they're an actual group of friends navigating yet another hobby they have in common. Doing voices is a plus for them because it's something they enjoy either way, but too many people take that as an indication that voice acting is a make-or-break type of thing - which isn't something they themselves have ever even implied. I agree that being able to spectate some games is getting in people's heads way too much unfortunately. There are things about any campaign that different players could take issue with and that only increases with a big audience that thinks they're at the table. But that just comes down to taste - and regarding CR it's *their* games and they seem to be having a blast most of the time. I watch them because what i love most is seeing them have fun with each other, which brings us back to the first point about friendship...
Rewatching this a year later, it makes so much sense and is a great rundown of a way to get started with a session and new players. I just need a Project Manager to heard the cats and make people be available at the same time.
Great vid Hank, I'm currently mashing icrpg and basic and loving it. Keep the vids coming,great inspiration and motivation especially during these times.🍺🍻🍺
I just started playing through some OSE and AD&D stuff with my irl group too!! We're using Dungeon World tho. Really grasping that vanilla-ish, 80's-ish, uber-D&D vibe (?
Just discovered your channel. Great stuff: the game is the group in play, nothing more. Just kicked off my own OSE (albeit in a mega dungeon). This system just feels like condensed D&D to me. Rolls those dice!
"1 GP = 1 XP" solves so many problems. It being abandoned has created so many issues with new editions of the game. In my sessions, you don't get XP unless you spend the gold on training, equipment, etc. This is a very elegant carrot to keep the characters from becoming overly wealthy, but also hungry for more adventure.
@@Runehammer1 I've caught up with the more recent videos and saw your stance on "old school" change a bit. Not sure if "painful" is the correct word but it was about how some of labels the commenter was using meant the same thing you were saying, but the words had a significantly different baggage for you (and that the way the commenter was phrasing them wasn't great) So the "painful" part was seeing an argument between people mostly agreeing lol. ("ignoring the rules as written"being compared to a GM from the time when the rules weren't codified yet has significant overlap. After all, at the time it wasn't about "playing D&D" but "playing so-and-so's dungeon" alongside the expectations that every tables are gonna play differently)
Everyone used Old School rules like this back in the day,... I was there. You aren't breaking new ground, you are just discovering how we all played back in the day. You seem have some kind of issue admitting that we were actually doing it this way.. the correct way, in the "old school days". Looking backwards to how things began isn't always a bad thing. The rules were always a loose framework that people tacked onto their games.
@@Runehammer1 Then why can't you admit that this is how we played back then? Most groups did. Not having the Internet back then meant that every game was like its own melting pot of house rules and style of play. You seem really caught up on not wanting to be classified as liking old school games.. but you are playing.. the essentials of the old school games! Its okay to admit it :)
The first game of DnD that I DM'd for friends who had no idea what role playing games were was just me, some graph paper, a handful of six-sided dice, and half remembered rules of a game that I had only witnessed older kids playing. I had just moved to a new town and was invited to sleep in the neighbor kids pop-up camper that they were airing our in their driveway. It was in Georgia and hot and there wasn't a lot to do. At some point, we started looking through the drawers and found the graph paper, some pencils, and some dice. I then offered to run a game that I had only witnessed where I used to live and explained it was all about exploring dark and dangerous places and fighting monsters and unspeakable horrors. They were hooked. We played all night long. I added the next room or passageway as we went along and as they opened doors. It was really fun. They enjoyed it so much, that's all they talked about with their parents afterwards. Their parents then asked my parents about the game we played and they had no idea. I explained the situation to my parents and they ended up surprising me with the red box of edition of basic Dungeons and Dragons for my next birthday. I've been playing role playing games ever since, with some LONG gaps in between games.
Old-School Essentials was originally called B/X Essentials but Gavin found that a lot of folks who might otherwise be interested in playing had no idea what B/X was. He changed the B/X to Old-School and the rest is history... or the future!
What people don't realize is that rules limit creativity. More rules = less freedom; that's how this curve of non-creativity works. No need for million different mechanics. Take Pathfinder for example. it suffers from that illness. I would not be surprised if they had a rule for scratching the mosquito bite! Screw that. What such detailed precision does is make me lose hours and hours making a character/adventure... looking, searching, bookkeeping etc... Basically everything I hated doing in school... it is insane. Simpler system design gives you basic building blocks, like Lego. You can build whatever you want. Pathfinder / 5E makes those specialized Lego sets that can make one specific thing! For a game that highly relies on imagination, this complex mindset is wrong in its core.
Not sure why lol but I find this video and possibly this playlist cool as hell lol. Its OSE/Blackmoor rolled into one which is what I am working on right now. Is your group primarily an OSE group? Do you use OSE Classic or Advanced? I'd like to know more about your D&Ding. When you said, we are not playing old school, we are playing our way. EXACTLY! I use OSE/AD&D in a strange mix, but a lot of stuff I just come up with myself. A lot of times when someone wants to do something or wants to find something (like you mentioned, someone is searching for an herb), I'll just think up a reasonable target number and say roll me a d20. As long as your players are having fun, that is all that matters.
I found a copy with a Basilisk on the cover. It just came about a week ago. Totally loving what I am seeing in OSE.. I can sort of see why some people would say, "'Magic-user', Elf, Dwarf'? Eww; what is this, a board-game!?" I cut my RP-teeth on AD&D2ndEd (I.E.: LARGER THAN LIFE D&D). So, from the perspective of someone who found RP when it was at it's most expansive moment, I can kinda see why something based on OG D&D might seem too restrictive.. But people need to remember that, just because they own the book, don't mean the book gets to own them back...you know what I mean? As a DM, I *LOVE* it when players want to customize their character a bit, and need the rules to be bent. That means they're *INVESTED!!!* ;D
I loved that OSE has that THAC0 conversion included in context. That was one thing that I was concerned about when going whole-hog into the OSR world, and the book handles it beautifully. Delightful surprise. ❤️👍🏻 I’m at a similar place with my middle school groups because I love Pathfinder 2E, but there’s....just...too...much! I’m adopting my favorite parts of 5e and P2E (the 3-action economy, Critical Success/Failure progression, advantage/disadvantage) and melding it with OSE. And planning to use random tables for **EVERYTHING**! We’ll see how that goes. 😂😂😂
Literally finished my 2 year campaign. It had some heavy “rolling 2 d20 for temperature “ energy. I never could have done it with out this channel. Thank you Hankerin!
If a person wants to play a published version of D&D, where there is literally "a role, a roll, or a rule" in the black-&-white, for absolutely everything imaginable; that's pretty much AD&D2ndEd. If that's what you want, that's where to go to get it. That is "rules-in-print", taken to fetish levels.. But, I totally agree with Hankerin, not every game has to be that.. If every game tries to run in the same race, most lose. But when they run their *OWN* race, most win!
OSE is a skeleton and everyone around the table puts the innards, muscles, and skin on it breathes a soul into it. Then it becomes a game, an adventure, and a legend.
I fucking love it I got chills like the first time I rolled up my first character in 76 . I would move to philly right now if I could play in your gam b
Who says you can’t make a dwarf magic user in OSE? Just start with an elf. Swap out secret door detection and ghoul paralysis immunity. Then swap in trap and construction detection and the dwarves’ weapon limitations. You can even give him or her the dwarf saving throws. But the human raised by dwarfs sounds like a cool idea too.
Just watched this. I could not agree more with everything you've said. The beauty of "old school D&D" is letting players try things, and making rulings as a DM without being burdened by over codified rules.
Great vid boss. I mentioned this over on patreon and will here too.. I would love you to make an "OSE" rpg system but call it what you want so we can get rid of this "old school" mentality and move more towards the home brew specialty you bring out in all of us.
I came to your exact conclusions recently, so that I felt your last couple of videos so serendipity-y in such a powerful way. And, yes, OSE should pull "Old School" off its name!
I've had a hard time convincing my current group of players to try different games systems, heck I think they'd have a blast with my own personal system, but no they all would rather player 5e... ugh.
For those commenting that 5e doesn’t have rules for morale, it does. First the book says the DM should do what makes sense to them in the situation (an Old School idea if ever I’ve heard one) and if you really want to roll dice, the Dungeon Master’s Guide says to do a DC 10 Wisdom check.
Thoughts on kickstarter aside, I think you'd enjoy the 1st installment of the "Knock" zine (though a lot of the essays can be found online). I really like what you have to say about "Old school", and I'm not sure I've heard you say it, but there is a sub-culture that straight up cargo-cults old-school artifacts. There's a lot to reflect on and steal from the Old School, but It's really not about the artifacts. Game conductors should borrow liberally and piece things together a-la-carte as they need it. Oracular dice -- your 2d20 temperature roll -- is one thing that worked well at the first tables, and it works in modern settings.
Damn, dude. First time checking out your RU-vid material. I do own some of you're published works but to see the man behind it all, I must say, I'm impressed. You set the bar with this vid though, great job. Please keep it up!
We tried DCC for a couple months but went back to OSE as DCC just got too slow and clunky at the table because of too many tables and extra rolls. Not a bad game, but didn't suit us.
Hank you should at least look up the OSE “advanced genre” rules. Then your player could have a dwarf wizard, etc. There’s so many juicy extra bits that you could import into your groups game.
One of the main points he was trying to get across in this video (and many others) is that books are not required. If Hank wants dwarf wizards he can add dwarf wizards. If he wants 2d20 temperature he does not need to find a book that tells him he can do that. He is advocating a game that is not afraid to go off-the-rails and off-the-books. You see it mentioned in this video...he barely even references the OSE book.
I love your approach Hank, but a lot of what you talk about relies on the GM being experienced enough to adapt to the wonderful capriciousness of players.
Or GM’s willing to improvise, learn on the fly and make mistakes to get better. No one should expect their GM to be perfect. My best advice to a newer GM is play with cool people that will hang in there as you get better.
Hank you are a strange and indispensable rpg genius. So that's probably why I'm not seeing what you're seeing. After watching this vid I downloaded Old_School_Essentials_Basic_Rules.pdf, and I don't see what you described here. I just see standard OSR fare: lots of one-off rules minutiae to remember, multiple esoteric resolution subsystems, a shitload of tables etc, all wrapped up in hardcore wargamer combat. It's like you told me about this awesome book containing twenty amazing haiku, and then sent me a Bible where you'd crossed out all the words that weren't your haiku. I mean yes, technically they're in there, but... What am I missing?
Having read a lot of people who love the B/X and B/X derived rule books (ie. OSE), I think it's the modularity of the rules (in the right DMs hands) that lends itself to the play-style Hank is talking about. You can easily add or subtract elements from the game in ways that might break 3e, 4e, or 5e. The main reason is probably because the simplicity of the character builds. But, as a DM you can't look at it like a rules-as-written system that must be memorized and followed, but more as an open-ended framework that gives you something to hang your hat on. That said, "White Box: Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game" might actually be more what you're looking for, in terms of brevity and presentation. The PDF is free on Drive-Thru RPG.
It’s best to view OSE as a reference book, and not so much a how to play book. Read the osr primers it recommends for that. But lots of minutiae and hardcore war gamer combat? This is the most bizarre take I have ever read tbh, definitely check out the primers.
I agree. So much of the OSR stuff I consume is just vague or nonsensical. The excuse for that is always, “you can make it your own, it’s hackable!”, well so is 5e. 5e is actually SUPER easy to hack and allows for more customization than OSE, Basic Fantasy, and the others I own. I’ve been playing since the early 80s and I have no desire to go back to THACO, weird Thief skills, generic and boring classes, etc.
@@mavfan21 Well, yeah that is the conventional wisdom. That said, I think with an open mind, it's pretty easy to see why some people would prefer certain versions of things, and it's honestly more interesting to engage with those viewpoints with curiosity, rather than to take a stance defending your own preferences. As far as I can tell the biggest difference really comes from the implied play style as a function of what the players of certain systems prefer. It's partly a way of engaging with an artifact that reflect on your values/preferences as a gamer.
Damnit! I just discovered Runhammer a couple of days ago. If I had known about this live stream I would have told my girl that I contracted the "rona" and couldn't go out on Friday night. EDIT 21:22 What was the roll?
I love DM screens! (On a side table for reference and to hide some notes). I tried with it in front of me once. I absolutely hated it. I didn't feel connected to the players and it just sucked 🙁 Also, as much as it is by NO means necessary, I totally love voice acting 😄 (though the best role player that I play with doesn't do it at all. So acting is by no means necessary, though can be fun if you like acting.)
Very glad you are doing better with recovery. (If I could just get me ligaments, tendons and muscles back up to snuff). Glad your getting your mojo back. Super happy to have found your channel. Since returning to D&D my husband and I have felt like we have been the minority. Hubby is still DMing nothing past 1E... I’m exploring all sorts of new stuff and bashing it with my setting restart which is really a Post Apocalypse Fantasy Sci Fi setting. I might have to get OES Essentials for Hubby I think he will dig it.
Kings of the Wyld! That is awesome! Good to see a book written by a fellow Canadian (and from Ontario too) is making head way. Love the character of "Slow Hand".
I love OSE and started a campaign a while back. Unfortunately some of the players could never wrap their head around the non-unified dice mechanics, so we just switched to Black Hack midstream. Roll under for everything. I have ICRPG also and that will probably be the next system I run.
Thanks for the great show - immediately unshelved my 5e collection ;-) Do you have a link to the character portraits deck - cannot find it on dtrpg. Thx!
A door in the wilderness could be a fork in the road. Or, a change terrain that matters - cover, difficulty to traverse. A choice of how to get there coupled with lore and a time deadline.
I think one of the reasons why people have a hard time understanding and connecting with the "game design mindset" is because they maybe never had that mindset to begin with. I started with 2e and quickly got into 3e. My group didn't like the rules OFTEN so we would hack it and come up with our own all the time. And it was great, it felt needed and natural. And yeah, one of the 5e problems is that it feels tight and that you are going to break it if you try to hack it.
Some of the comments here are missing the mark. And Hank, your sessions 0 sounds awesome and I'm glad your new group has really bought in. We'll all be better gamers to hear your stories of the games, and how you adapted and adjusted mid-game to make something awesome happen.
Besides systems, rules, ways to run and play this game (or any other), you transpire a passion that is extremely contagious and inspiring. Cheers to that and thank you!
I want to try the old school stuff but I been trying to add it in to my 5e game to make it more harder looking for some help any suggestions🧠 definitely want to try the old school game by the book but I just started a New 5e game Sadly I understand the 5e hate 🏴☠️ sorry dumb request i know partaking in some groennfell mead myself
Hey Robert, I’m guessing you are the only one who dm’s for your group, like it is for mine. I think I have the solution for you if you give me a second. A couple years back when I found Hank’s game, icrpg, I knew I found a philosophy that would free me from the time, headache, and fun sucking I was experiencing in 5e. 5e was my introduction into the hobby but I just knew there was something wrong with 5e. I didn’t want to spend all the time and energy it takes to run 5e, and after one of the other guys in my group tried running a campaign, that lasted all of two sessions, he quit from the fatigue and pressure of running a 5e game. All of a sudden we had a group of four who wanted to play, but no one to run it. I told my group I’d be willing to dm again, but not a 5e game. It would need to be my weird Frankenstein of a table top game based off of ICRPG. Since no one else was willing to run it, and they wanted to play, they were all happy to give it a shot. We have been playing for almost two years now and we are still having a blast. I guess what I’m saying is, if you are the only one willing to put in the work and dm, just tell your players that you love to run a game but you just can’t do 5e anymore, you want to run OSE or something. It’s essentially the same game but streamlined for fun. And if your players have objections, then fine, why don’t they run the game and give you the privilege of playing as a character instead. If someone does step up to the plate, then awesome you can just play. If not, and they still want to play, then they’ll probably be just fine with it. I didn’t approach it in a way of, “let’s try something new”. It was more, “Guys, running 5e is too much for me and not enough return. I’ll burn out and we won’t have a game anymore.” My players understood that and we switched. Just be honest and go for it. Either they’ll switch or someone else runs the game and you play. My game is literally a mix of like 12 different rpg’s, but based off of the philosophy Hank talks about here and in the game he created. It has been the best for me and my players, because now we play a game that no one else in the world plays. It is a game made just for them and it rocks. That’s my advice anyways. Be honest with your players.
Have you tried playing 5e just using the free basic rules from WOTC. I find to be closer to an the older flavour of game. I hacking it further and mixing in some of my favourite B/X procedures.
@@Runehammer1 Thanks for answering (and for your amazing content all these years!), but unfortunately my search for character portraits on DTRPG only returns results in a drawing style that's vastly different from your deck's, and I find them not appealing to me at all. Could you give me any other pointers, please?
When I've been excited for a new [to me] rpg I've bought my 5e friends books, props etc. and still get pushback. "I don't want to be average, I'm average every day" (DCC); I don't like the economy (Warhammer)". Never again. I'm as jaded as you can possibly get toward 5e after a 5 year campaign which saw the party reach 19th level. I'm done. I told my friends I'm done running 5e and they can sort out their own feelings. I'm tired of 100 class features (powers). I'm tired of feats (powers). I'm tired of god level spells and content that just gets wrecked with so much ease due to bonus action healing word, and 3 death saves to fall back on. At least one has passively rebelled by cancelling for the game this evening. Don't care. I'm not spending another minute doing something *I* don't enjoy, so you can get your super-powered ego fix. Some may think I'm coming off as selfish. Again, I am burned tf on 5e. #sorrynotsorry
The issue you are running into with labels is you specifically called out this system OSE, so folks are looking as to why and how this is now “the way” instead of like 5e or ICRPG, binary thinking but you are claiming superiority of the system. My experience, I found nothing in OSE I couldn’t replicate perfectly or exceed through 5e. All the stripping of the rules is all there in the dmg, including monster morale. Frankly I like the races and classes and bonuses of 5e, and hate going 5 rounds missing all attacks because both you and the monster are rolling straight.
Yes and even most of the pillars of DIY, the game is yours, etc. Hank lauds OSE for, were already reinvigorated by the systems of the OSR about 12-15 years ago. In the end, OSE is just another version of B/X and I hope people listening here don't get the impression that it is some new revolutionary system.
@@Runehammer1 I feel you, the book layout is near perfection. Makes it very useful if you are running the system. The OSE system itself isn’t better or worse, it boils down to preferences. Folks are labeling your play as they are trying to figure out why your preference shifted enough to get a group of homies together to play it, and make two, one hour long videos specifically about OSE. Sounds like you are having fun, enjoy that new pup, and I’m glad you are feeling better. Missed the madness!
I think you are mistaking what Hank is saying in regards to OSE. He is not saying it is a super system. He is saying that 5E has way too much bloat, too much choice, and too much rules, which just don't work for him as he prefers less rules in a more concise format. He is only saying that OSE, in its simplicity and layout allows for easy gaming. At no point is he saying it's superior. He's saying it's different, pointing out the differences, and why he's seeing advantages in the positive attributes of the system.
@@monomakes I could be wrong, but I assume you haven’t played B/X, or OSE, as a hardcore mode isn’t needed, it is a deadly game by default. That’s kind of a big part of old school play, the appeal of this for me is that it forces more creative and lateral thinking from players.
@@yohahn12 I was referring to the lack of support of Hardcore Mode that I perceive (which he answered regarding ICRPG at the beginning of the video). I wonder what plan he’ll move on to next. Will be interesting no doubt.
