Overanalyzing Avatar on one of my not so favourites, lets just say that. PATREON: / overanalyzing TWITTER: / overanalyzinga #avatar #atla #overanalyzingavatar
The worst part about the bug at the beginning is not that Sokka has it just under his clothes and doesn't freak out, but that he just *puts it back there*
The way this episode is written, with everyone else acting like what was done with the air temple was totally fine, it feels less like Aang genuinely felt like it was okay in the end and more like he was gaslighted into it.
Yeah. I mean I get the idea that duh, he’s the last Airbender so they might not have personal connections to the history or the place. But they should care about Aang. Think about their own homes being destroyed by the fire nation. At least at the end Teo seemed remorseful and was excited to show Aang a part of the temple that he truly thought was untouched and that would be something from Aang’s heritage that was saved!
Oh yeah and total side note that is definitely freakin important. Obviously the Water and Earth nations are against the Fire nation in the war, so you’d assume they wouldn’t be chill with the whole Air nation genocide, especially because it could happen to them. And while during a war they might not have the time to make it to the air temples, you’d assume that they’d still genuinely be saddened by the death of an entire nation and want to preserve their culture whether they knew Aang was alive or not. Like purely out of respect.
@@small_and_dangerous2068 It depends on the kinds of attitudes that people have. Sad to say, genociding entire cultures was not an uncommon practice of much of humanity. From what I do know about Roman history at least in Europe, while we don't have firsthand evidence from any Gallic leaders, overall they didn't really seem to care that much if the tribe next to them got wiped out. Pan-Gallic Anti-Roman sentiment was something that only came in a bit too late, and by then there were already a number of other tribes who were allied with Rome. In general, wiping out an entire people would make you mad at the aggressor, but there wasn't really many tears shed by their neighbors. Another problem is that cultural preservation and anthropology is a modern concept (modern in the classic 18th-19th century sense). While we do get to see anthropologists at Ba Sing Se University, most people probably don't care enough to preserve the past, much less a past that isn't their own. When survival is on the line, you begin to ignore the implications of holing up in an abandoned mountain fortress, and maybe making it more livable. I don't agree with the mechanist's profligate destruction of the place, but as modern western people we're quite removed from war, and if you had the choice between being homeless or living in Machu Picchu, then yeah I'd probably pick the latter Of course, that's one specific example, but the leaders of the Water and Earth nations general seem to be more apathetic to the Air Nomad genocide. It's also more complicated that they are 100 years removed from the incident, and probably facing their own perilous survival. I don't think it's right to entirely blame the mechanist and his people who (at first at least) were making lots of sacrifices just to try and survive. Also, even if Aang is entirely justified and remains angry, what exactly would he do about that? Aang's one major character trait is being reserved and forgiving, he hardly ever holds a grudge (sandbenders notwithstanding), so I think him remaining pissed about it would be a little out of character for him even if he's right. It's also not like he can just kick an entire people off his mountain-- even if he could and it was "his," that would just be condemning another people to death for not doing anything. There's also a cultural reason too. The Air Nomads freed themselves from worldly matters. As much as Aang finds this place deeply sacred, it's ultimately just a worldly location, an old home that no one has been using and is just sitting there abandoned. It's not like he has a use for it, so why should he remain attached to it? I think that while the Mechanist is certainly not in the right, Aang's decision makes more sense than what OA is trying to present.
Might've actually been like, chemical waste. I think out of all the things them mentioned, slime would've *actually* been the most horrific, at least in the long term. Might've just, dunked those dudes in Roku *knows* how much benzene, lead, or pick your favorite acid.
It also makes no sense why the Mechanist is even in the temple in the first place. People don't just "stumble" into a temple on the summit of a mountain. You don't climb a mountain to find a new home. He 100% knew what he was doing. How does nobody bring this up?
I'm completely on the same page about the Mechanist. I always thought he was just an asshole and the gratuitous destruction of the cultural artifacts was needless. They could have built any number of things without drilling holes in the walls where there are clear frescas and monuments. And I always felt that Aang was waaay too quick to forgive. Like they should've all been kicked out of there and made to clean it up imho.
sure, as if this war victims havent been through enough already now a bald toddler are kicking them out of the only place they have found so far because "muh culture" even if that same toddler ran away from it and his responsabilities and let the world sink itself in the horrors of war for a century.
@@sebastiansuazo2734 It's the cultural artifacts of a people that were the victims of a genocide campaign by the same occupying forces that made them into refugees. And that missing culture has literally 4 major holy sites in the entire world. My instinct is to just ignore those places and find shelter elsewhere. But I get they're in a survival scenario and abandoned ruins would be a relatively safe place to hide out. But it still feels like the mechanist's crew could have used the structure while also showing *some* respect for a culture that went through the same violence they're suffering from.
@@sebastiansuazo2734 a “bald toddler” who ran away because he was a scared child with a ton of responsibilities placed on him suddenly and was going to be taken away from what amounts to his father and is now a genocide survivor and the last vestiges of his otherwise dead culture are being defaced? Oh yeah totally unreasonable. War victims are wholly capable of living someplace and not unnecessarily building plumbing through the art and culture of a genocided people. Have some sympathy.
@@8teezy I would’ve loved to live in a place like this myself (without destroying it). Anything with some type of history is neat and if by any chance people of that place came by, I could ask the history without the possibility of getting kicked out. That place looks inspirational, not a “hey looks like I should improve this place”
FYI, in many asian cultures, any elderly person would be referred to as "grandpa" or "grandma", and adults are your "uncle" and "aunt". It's a term of respect in cultures that see each other as one big family.
As for the slime bombs we see muck overflowing from the sky bison's statue basin so it stands to reason there are other such areas where industrial waste was simply taking up space.
@@BirdThatEatsPrometheussLiver if you can't visualize tornadoes and explosions, especially after having seen the show with tornadoes and explosions being referenced, that's a serious issue with your reading comprehension, not the responsibility of the person writing it. And your point doesn't even make any sense when one of the "visualizations" was a gasoline pump, while actually talking about natural gas, which is different. In that case, the visual actually conveys the wrong thing, making it even worse
My view on the 3D models for the tanks is that it makes them seem more menacing and almost foreign to the world. The Fire Nation is so advanced with their technology that things like the tanks are meant to seem more unnatural, especially when compared to the technology of other nations (like the water tribe weapons example from a few episodes ago). It also allows for the animation of the tanks, which appears to have a higher frame rate than the rest of the show (I could be wrong), to look smoother and more precise in a way that only an advanced machine could move.
No deaths in the gas explosion? Tell that to the soldiers. There is no way the soldiers marching on top of the section of mountain that blew up are still alive. That shot of the broken tank chains and fresh, gaping crevasse heavily implies to me that a good chunk of that invasion force was straight up obliterated.
The 3D works here not just because it's already animated, but because it's specifically only used on the vehicles, which are naturally more bulky and clunky, and not a natural part of this world. They fit because it further exemplifies the technology dissonance between the fire nation and everyone else. Basically, the tanks are *supposed* to look weird and eye-catching, so that's why they work so well.
Hearing the lack of love for the Mechanist makes me sad. I think his character is genuinely interesting and funny and I can’t help loving him because of his voice actor, René Auberjonois, who was Odo from DS9 and is in a bunch of other shows I love. He also did the voice of the leader of the Zhang Tribe in The Great Divide! Probably not his best point tbh…
I really don't even think what he did in-universe was that bad. Call me a tasteless philistine with no sense of "culture," but as far as I care, old places that are left to rot by all of humanity are not inherently sacrosanct. Yeah, it would've been nice if they had gone somewhere else, but given the choice between saving the lives of dozens of people and preserving some historic landmark, I'm going to side with the one that's alive and has thoughts and feelings, and I feel like anyone who isn't a sociopath ought to as well. Moreover, the air temples aren't even that ancient in the show. It's less comparable to tearing down Machu Picchu to make a parking lot, and closer to tearing down an abandoned assembly line in Detroit to make a homeless shelter.
@@DJstarrfish genocide bro.... all the air nomads died either in the temples or while in hiding after the initial attacks on the temples. we saw in the south temple that remains were still around from the attacks. the temples are graveyards for an entire group of people. to say he just stubbled on to the mountain and only found the gliders and art is a lie. he had to have found bones, old weapons, and damages from fire. there wasnt an invite to move in the temples. there was just a place to remember the war crime that started the 100 year war
@@LionWithAGun So when someone dies in a car crash, do you declare that section of road sacred and say no one is ever allowed to use it again? I'll say it again: inanimate, non-living things *have no rights*. People *do*. Also, if the Air Nomads were really based on the Tibetan Buddhist monks, then this idea that it's disrespectful to the Air Nomads is a really eurocentric notion. You're projecting your own modern, Western values on a culture whose whole goal is to detach themselves from material concerns, much less neglecting the extremes that people are forced to go to in war.
@@DJstarrfish no but should by your logic, we destroy and live inside the concentration camps? Should we not be respectful of millions of Jews who lost their lives in them? No? What made you think genocide is the same as a car crash? youre a joke if you really wanna compare genocide to car accidents. Like please tell me how the annihilation of a group of people is similar and shouldn't be remembered? You wanna talk your shit so please. I and so many are waiting to see you explain how genocide isn't something important...
Holy shit watching this made me remember the first time watching Aang and the paraplegic glider kid and when Aang says "I can do a lot more than fancy gliding" and then starts wall running I burst out in laughter and yelled "like RUNNING!?" 😂😂😂😂
The Teo thing is how you do inclusivity. It's not shoehorned in to check a box, it's not trying to pander to one group or another, and most importantly, it doesn't consume his entire character. Teo is a chill dude, and he acts like one. He doesn't go around moping about his handicap, and the episode isn't turned into a heavy-handed message by having people bully him for it. I feel like this is what a lot of the people advocating for diversity and inclusivity don't get. If you're doing it just for the sake of doing it (as opposed to doing it because it's an accurate and reasonable depiction of what some people might experience) then it's not genuine, and hurts the writing and quality of the show. In my experience, that's the real issue people have when they argue against the idea that everything needs diversity
Old comment but this. Exactly. This is also why people thoroughly dislike Korra compared to ATLA. One is timeless, the other had the beginnings of current day, shallow, "woke" propaganda.
I feel like if this story had happened in book 2 it would have gotten split into a two-parter and benefitted from better Aang/Tao development and then a more fleshed out battle. I like this episode, but on a rewatch it is sooooo rushed. I recall when I first saw the ending of this episode on TV as a youngster with the fire nation getting the hot air balloon I was like woahhhhhh this is huuuuge - and it was - but I give the show so much props for holding onto that until The Day of Black Sun. *Puts on overanalyzing hat* Not sure if it's intentional, but when katara does a little backwards swoop freezy move on one of the tanks it looked like the exact same motion as when she accidentally froze 3 of Zuko's henchman back in episode 2, and if that's the case it's a good example of skill development since now she used the move with intention.
So many people forget these are fire benders. They can melt the snow above them and break free. An army of nonbenders might die from an avalanche, but these guys are perfectly suited to deal with snow
Really appreciate your criticisms about this ep. as I think the storyline in this one really could’ve tackled cultural appropriation v appreciation more effectively. For example, focusing on the dmg done to all the cultural spaces bc you’re absolutely right, Aang had ever right to remain angry and not forgive them. I feel like a more satisfying ending would’ve been one where the people learn the importance of respecting these spaces more, while also not taking away from the fact that these people are refugees and this place was a perfect home.
The creators are insanely good at inclusivity. Essentially every character with a disability has it as just a part of who they are but it is not the defining part of their character or story. They do this in The Dragon Prince too. It's just fantastic.
How can you be a war criminal in a world where the concept of war crimes doesn't exist? Or at the least has never been established and therefore as far as we know, non-existent and non-canon.
I generally agree with your summation of the episode. I think if they characterized the mechanist as a bit more eccentric and using the "finding a home for my people" story as an excuse for using the temple as a giant laboratory and engineering playground it would have meshed better. Then he could see the errors in both making the weapons and his previous disrespectful behaviour. I do really like how you acknowledged how including Tao as a differently abled character is important. While bland and just a side character, it is lot more than most shows of the time (and today) do to show human diversity. Importantly, just including people, not specifically having all your main characters see someone in a wheelchair, be nice, and get praise for how nice they are to another human. Can't wait for the next over-analysis!
The Geneva Convention doesn’t exist in the Avatar Universe. You know how I know that, because there isn’t a Geneva in the Avatar Universe. Actually come to think of it even in the real world the Geneva Convention was created after the Second World War to retroactively justify the prosecution of the war criminals. It’s also worth noting that Sokka didn’t do so deliberately as he hadn’t realized the insignia which the balloon already had would have that effect.
YEAH. AANG MURDERED THOSE MOUNTAIN GUYS! It literally always bothered me, even as a kid watching this show. Like, how's Aang gonna say he never killed anybody after purposely crushing dozens of people in an avalanche of his own making? The act itself can be justified in defense of innocent lives, but it's hypocritical to then act like murdering a named tyrant is worse than murdering unnamed soldiers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's disrespectful to those soldiers: lied to their whole life, conscripted into an endless bloody war, and ultimately killed by the Avatar only to be forgotten when it mattered. Tolkien said best what I'm trying to get at: "The enemy? His sense of duty was no less than yours, I deem. You wonder what his name is, where he came from, and if he was really evil at heart. What lies or threats led him on this long march from home; if he would not rather have stayed there, in peace. War will make corpses of us all." I'm surprised Book 3 didn't bring this up, what with how much they fleshed out the Fire Nation's people. Would've been a good talking point for an episode.
As a kid i was all for taking this place and making it their new home. As an adult i was pissed when i remembered this XD Theres only a handful of small temples they have left, you had the ENTIRE PLANET to pick from.
7:49 It's kinda funny if you think about it, because irl it happened sooo many times in history that the original inventor was forgotten and the one who merely improved and finalized the idea gets all the credit lol
Idk if he ever mentions the theory that some Airbenders escaped the genocide and birthed children(which is an awesome theory) But Ty Lee is rumored to be an Airbender descendant. I imagine the mechanist and his child Tay-oh(spelling?) are the same, and thats why Tay-oh has the spirit of an airbender.
anytime there's a snot or green slime gag, that's literally just a little homage shot to it being a nickelodeon show. they're gag for the whole early mid 2000's was slime. also when Toph gets the meteorite "earth" the last shape she makes is nickelodeons old Splat! logo. just mentioning cuz youve brought up slime a few times wondering why they do it.
One possible reason the Northern Air Temple may look more "constructed" is because the showrunners did comment that they felt the Southern Air Temple was drawn too simplistically, hence they may have upped their game for the NAT. The last Air Temple we see (Western Air Temple) was definitely the most mindblowing.
The Geneva Convention doesn't stop only at state actors. Non-state actors like paramilitaries, terrorist groups, and militias can still be tried as war criminals as long as they are taking an active role in a declared war. A good real world example is the SS during the Nuremburg Trail. The SS weren't technically soldiers but a paramilitary force under the command of the German Federal Police and NSDAP.
@@AsymmetricalCrimes yeah but this fight isn’t really apart of a declared war it’s more the fire nation attempting to siege a religious temple and a ragtag group attempting to ward the attack it doesn’t really have any implications on the larger war at hand
i think the creature at 2:35 might be the oldddd turtle aang meets before he fights the fire lord? maybe a turtle mixed with a toad....and he has a lot of worts. Kinda explains how aang knows how important the big turtle is too. He saw them at the temples growing up...
Honestly, I don't feel as though lack of reverence toward an alien culture is exactly that damning. I feel like culturally it's a very recent mindset to preserve history's and cultures and personally I feel like the level of reverence that gets given to something In the past something conceptual that is no longer around in place of things that are actually alive and around that actually do need help to sustain, is just fucked. Like to put in a metaphor it's like going to a funeral instead of being at a hospital with someone in critical condition. The past is the past, focus on the future that still needs to be written in that aspect. So when you're expecting a level of hallowed reverence from a collection of refugees who found an abandoned temple of a culture that literally is exclusive to its own kind, who were nomadic and had very little interaction with outsiders, can't really fault them. I feel like Aangs characterization here is definitely correct for him, given he's lost everything and everyone and his culture is steadily being erased. And I also feel like there should have been more to the interactions here as a whole on either side of conflict or compromise. I don't think he would be particularly "in the right" for being indignant towards the refugees living in the temple. Especially given his role as the Avatar and his absence, I feel like it would have possibly been stronger a point if they were war refugees or lost their home because of interference from the spirit world because then it is directly Aang who is responsible for not being around to be the mediator of the world's, this is kinda what happens when the world lacks that sort of stability. Survival > Sentimentality
But what I never understood if they are fleeing from the fire nation, and then the fire nation finds them why don't they again just flee further into the earth kingdom, I mean it's not like they aren't able to move
@@danielshore1457 Its cuz theyre not. Theyre not even war refugees, theyre relocating after a flood i think. Probably dont wanna provoke a response if they can appease the fire nation
The mechanist literally INFURIATES me, there’s a way to modernize without destroying the cultural footprint of this fucking beautiful isolated monastery that is of supreme religious significance to non benders and air benders alike. Aang was fully right and the message of the episode should’ve been “if you fuck up someone’s culture you’re gonna get your shit rocked”
Not sure if you mentioned it but I noticed some of the musical themes in this episode when they enter the northern air temple are somewhat similar to the fire nation theme. It sounds a little less ominous and a bit more dreary, at least to my ear. Could be some interesting foreshadowing.
One thing about the Mechanist that they could have done better was about how he treated the structure and culture around him. Because here's the thing: if you want protection from a warring nation, why not go for the best option, such as a temple on the top of a mountain? So I can't really blame him for choosing the temple. However... when it comes to his treatment of the culture around him, it's bad... really bad. It's blatant destruction, like with the pipes through the art, and the wrecking of a statue. Now, instead of DESTROYING the culture around him for his machines, why not show the Mechanist AVOIDING or at worst RELOCATING the structures to ensure that he alters as little culture as possible.(Example: Pipes through the gaps in between the art, or the relocating of that statue instead of blatantly destroying it). Granted, it wouldn't forgive him entirely, but it at least gives his claim of looking for sanctuary more ground.
What honestly is interesting about whole Avatar series, is that you don't really see a lot of people with a wheel chair or something like that. Throughout the Avatar we only saw Teo and Sparky sparky boom man with prosthetic augmentations. No one else had them. Which is weird, considering that there is a lot of bending happening in the world and all that monstrous wild life. Oh, and guide in *Eugh* The Great Divide had the stick after getting beaten by a wolf spider or whatever those things were
In defense of these people who moved into the Northern Air Temple and renovated it. What was the mountain before the Air Nomads moved in? It was untouched land, and whether they did it spiritually or not, they shaped the mountain for their selfish purposes. So it's perfectly fair that after the Air Nomads had left( technically true) the land was reclaimed by new people, for new purposes. The alternative to them moving into the temple, would be them just being homeless. Is that really better? That a living group suffer shelterlessness while we go out of our way to respect the dead.
Since the Mechanist's people aren't seen in Korra, my headcanon is the Air Acolytes or a younger Tenzin kicked them out when they found what they were doing up there.
Yeah this used to be my least favorite episode before I came to my senses and realized the great divide SUCKED ASS. I think the Mechanist has a pretty cool design and it's worth mentioning that he and his people are protecting the temple from the Fire Nation, but like, the least they could do is not destroy the sacred relics. I 100% get where Aang is coming from and I hate that he gets over it so quickly, he has every right to be mad.
Its just really competent cell-shading, by sticking to the style of the rest of the show but also almost all 3d cell-shaded assets in the show are also non-organic structures with higher detail levels than most things apart from background paintings which also are generally buildings made of organic structures or nature its self with again the more painted art style to separate it
I think the reason why the CGI works is because they're tanks and ships, rather than people. Its why you took issue with that one shot of Aang in CGI in an earlier episode, it looks off because its much easier for the uncanny valley affect to rear its ugly head, but in the case of something inorganic, this problem isnt as pronounced.
i know i'm super late on this, but monks are all ways searching for inner peace so that includes no value on inanimate objects. not saying Aang would understand that at his young age but i don't think the other air benders would be too shocked to lose history.
i know this video is a year old but the reason you don't mind the CGI is because they paint over it to blend better with the animated style, something they don't really do in TLoK in comparison
The "3D model in a 2d animation" thing is smth ive always been really curious about. I know ive noticed it in some anime (the only one that immediately comes to mind is One Piece sometimes does it for ships and water) and im always curious about why it was chosen, how its always so easy to tell, and what makes it look so much better in some circumstances than in others
Technically speaking, Sokka is not a war criminal because the Geneva Convention was never drafted in his world, nor would he, or anyone, have any way of knowing of it. And given the general technological level of the world of Avatar, it's highly unlikely that similar conventions would have been drafted even by the time Korra is born.
The 3D model thing is something Futurama did too. I think that they make it look as 2D as possible, so it's much less jarring than you think it would be.
1:58 yeah y'know now that you say that yeah I do remember kinda questioning it as a kid but quickly I realized hey it doesn't matter he's awesome and idk I've just always been like that since with appearance or other things, I always get to know someone and see how they act
i'll be real with you, some of this episode is a little goofy, but my brother and I both agree that this was one of our favorite episodes from while we were a kid. we probably didn't hold it to very high of a standard, but it's a kids show! we enjoyed it!
One thing I'm surprised you didn't mention is how they started at the south pole so they naturally went to the Southern Air Temple and now they're heading to the northern water tribe so of course they'd visit the Northern Air Temple.
With sokka claiming he designed the balloon, it could be interpreted different ways, but I sort of feel like he meant that he figured out a way to modify it differently from the way the way the one guy there had designed it originally. He mentions about when you apply heat to the balloon, it would keep flying upward, so, he modified the idea of the balloon with the lid on top.
This does raise a question: what do they do after the war ends? Aang rebuilds the air acolytes and in korra I'm pretty sure aang wouldn't have tried to rebuild the air nomad culture while one fourth of their temples is covered in pipes and temple fragments.
The CGI (for the most part) In this show is a lot like Long John Silver in the Treasure PLanet movie on a smaller TV budget scale. You know it's more noticeable CGI than Silver, BUT It blends in well with the rest of the setting and animation to the point it's not obtrusive and it's used sparringly, primarily for the metal machines, like how it's primarily used for Silver's mechanical parts, B.E.N and other metal contraptions in Treasure Planet.
The mechanist sounds like the kinda guy that I could see being the CEO of something, or like the sole proprietor of some kinda casino or something. Anyone else get this vibe?
This episode is the only one that got the "abridged" service for me: All the rest of book one I can still watch and apreciate, but this one got completely smashed. All I can hear is "for SCIENCE" and "I'm Handy Capable" everytime someone speaks.
I think maybe what Aang was getting at in the end was that it was better that people were living in the temple and making use of it and making a home out of it, rather than just letting it sit and rot into obscurity. He didn't do a great job explaining it, though.
I think that what's important about this episode is to show people what happen to the cities and countries that had to flee their homes because of the war. In a certain way, it shows us how people feel being scarred in this way about a war.
I mean opening the door in private for one person is a little different than giving them all free reign in I always got the impression that he was only opening that door for Teo in that moment as a show of trust between somebody he'd considered maybe close enough to being a friend due to being similar in personality to the culture that he came from Also it's cool to just have chill side characters he's pretty neat and I didn't even know he was in a wheelchair until I listened to this show with audio description and that was also kind of neat
I think the 3d animation almost works as a metaphor, these tanks are strange and new and don't belong in this world. There's even almost a parallel with the impact WWI had on the world
