In Europe the consensus is that only madmen would inhale the vapours. Some old bee keepers do not use protection while vaporizing because... you know... they dont care a whole lot. Yet still these old men treat this substance with a lot of care. I hope you are healthy, Don.
You the MAN ....Don...Watched since the start and you got more Info on bees than anyone else.....learned much from you and tell all to watch you.....Thanks.You are a Great service to us beekeepers........
Sorry, I did not want to dispute your knowledge or anything similar. Here in Serbia, oxalic is done in early winter when there is virtually no brood and the honey is the one which will be mostly used by the bees as winter food. Trickling eliminates 90-95% in one treatment. This cant be done with vaporizing as the varroa is safe inside capped brood. It's also very safe, as opposed to vaporizing. In the end every beekeeper has to choose for himself, no matter the number of beehives. Regards.
I would never trickle because it will kill your brood and make honey taste bad. vaporizing is the safest way to treat bees. it can be done with open brood or honey on a hive.its very strange that people with 1 or 10 hives seems to be a expert on treating bees.=I make my living with bees and only trying to pass on free info. Don
Thanks for this, I am in Germany, 10 Nov 20, and some of my hives have varroa...so this video gives me confidence to use the vaporiser...we shall see how many Vs fall .....
hi Don, in Europe, we put the vaporizer in a bucket of water after treatment, that way you don't have to wait for it to cool. saves a few minutes which adds to hours or so when treating 100s hives at a time
I read a week ago that. Mite treatments are what is causing colony collaps. I believe it. I used it one time. The bees did not do well. After that I got rid of my weak hives and kept and only bred the best bees. Good breeding for clean bees works best. They are far more productive too. Also if a stint produces a white pushups in an hour or two and the bees are fussy then I know they are sick and have a tummy ache. I then feed them a quart of sugar water with erythromycin sulfate antibiotic in it. A week later they are fine and easy to work with. Steeply is fire blight spray for pears etc. I get t it at a garden store.
Hi all, I am planning to do one myself. As heating tool I am going to buy a glow plug from a car store who sells car parts (it heats diesel prior starting the engine) and it's dead cheap approx 2 Euros here in Malta (Europe). I am going to place the heating element in a copper tube (get a scrap of copper tubing from air con copper piping cuts) and you're done, just need a 2 min wiring by connecting the nut which is opposite the heating element to the +ve terminal and the body to the -ve side and you're done.
Oxalic acid is naturally occurring in Japanese knotweed. The main and biggest honey flow in my area is JKW and I have never had a problem with mites, I am imagining that the knotweed pollen and using the nectar for brood feed the mites are kept in check naturally. Unfortunately there seems to be a war on knotweed all over this country. I would be very interested to see a study done on THIS. Nature gives us what we need.
Hi Don, going to treat my hives that way this year as I had to go to California for a couple of weeks this year and I left my hives in Ireland in August without treatment.Mite level wasn't crazy anyway.I have only one concern watching the video is that you are not wearing any protection especially respiratory one,is that safe ? I read that beekeeper should wear PPE ?
It works very well, mite count single digits and not seen tracheal mites. Bees very healthy, had seven swarms got three back let others go. I not want any more hives( handle more) . Fat Bee Man know what he is takin about! I also use his feeders with venting, and extended venting above feeder.
Don, is there a difference in the oxalic treatment for 4 and 5 frame nucs? Would I use less for the smaller colonies? I'm now overwintering nucs here in Pa. in four and five frame nucs. It's easier to overwinter the colonies in the smaller hives than in the ten frame boxes.
Do you think it would have a better mite kill rate if all the foragers were in the hive? It would be nice to do some hive work in the cool of the evening.
i thought the application of oxalic acid had to be done around november when it is mostly broodless? but i am just reading a lot of information on it before i buy one. but it looks like a great way to keep mites dow : )
My question is how effective is this treatment to a hive that is 4 supers high? and do you suggest to always apply the fumes to the bottom entrance, there is a couple of post's on here where the guy puts a shim block onto the top then covers the top with a piece of plexiglass. The shim block has a hole in it where he inserts a short length of metal pipe and the oxalic acid is in the end of the pipe outside, he then caps of the outside end and heats it up with a propane torch which in turn fumes out the oxalic acid into the hive but will this make it all the way down through to the brood chamber?, I figure it is probably better to fume out the bottom since heat rises and would lift the oxalic fumes up through the brood chamber better. What do you think about this method Mr. Fat Bee Man?
Hi Don, Thanks for your help in saving the bees. I'm a new beek, within 30 mins. from you. I have hives, one has been hit with Verroa. I need your help. How can I get this set-up? How fast can I get the ladies treated?
Don, This may not be the best place to post this question but if a bee that had mites on it dies from the mites will the mite still be on the bee, will the mite die and fall off too or if the bee dies will it then move on to another bee or larvae? Just curious because when checking hive in late fall and winter for dead bees behind entrance board I haven't found any mites at all on them so I don't know if they died of age or from mites.
Hi Don, always great learning videos as always. Question please on the time of day/temperature to vaporize the bees. We are in a hot summer area and needed to know if it was to, hot between 90-100+degrees to treat the bees. Should we wait until later in day when forgers are back or when they are gone? Thanks for your help!
I suppose the vaporizer is made with a glow plug. Glow plugs heat up to 1000 C. Temperature for oxalic acid sublimation is 157 C. Higher temperature causes oxalic acid degradation and it turns to formic acid. So, how does this vaporizer maintains 157 C? It doesn't, so this is not oxalic acid treatment.
I love your videos Don but I have to agree with our friend from Serbia and Simonswall. OA does not kill Varoa which are in capped brood so in Europe we use it uniquely in December when there is no brood and no honey for human consumption. OA is also extremely corrosive to Chitin and so damages the exoskeleton of the bees. Not so important for workers but the queen who lives longer than all the others risks being damaged by repeated OA treatments to the point where she is vulnerable to infection.
Is there a particular brand, percent of concentration of the oxalic acid itself that is needed for treating for mites? Does it come in a powder or crystal form?
Oxalic acid breaks down in chemical reaction to make Formic Acid and Carbon Monoxide. I WOULD NOT WANT TO BREATH THAT. Many other reagents other than glycerol help this reaction to happen.
Yes, DavyB, but requires a reagent regardless. Zuconja was implying heat alone forms Formic acid. Simply heating oxalic acid will not create formic acid, and is a safe and effective mite treatment. Breathing the vapors are not recommended in any case.
Yes, I'm aware you didn't say tbat. That is why I am answering Zuconja and his misunderstanding that only heat is required. Thanks for your input though.
+Toby Schmid The literature I've read says that oxalic acid decomposes to formic acid and other byproducts upon heating. I even consulted a chemist who told me the same thing. I've carried out careful experiments of my own and the OA sublimates until it reaches the decomposition temperature at which point it turns into a liquid. If this liquid isn't formic acid, I'd sure like to know what it is.
How late in the season can I treat with Oxalic Acid? I've had healthy hives all summer, but now I see V mites and the robbing bees seems to have spread them. November 1st in Michigan, Bees aren't flying much, only on warmer days, is it still safe to treat?
!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could you put a frame of open drone brood at the stage at which it is attracting the Varroa mite and place it below the varroa mesh floor and the bees cannot seal it so it attracts more mites, then shake all the frames onto the mesh and remove he brood from the hive for five minutes or so!?!?!?!
Looks like oxalic acid is being approved for use in the U.S. It's inexpensive as Don suggests. Glad to see the chemical companies couldn't hold back the approval
Thought you would be interested in this article that just came out on this subject: www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/33537 "A team from the Laboratory of Apiculture and Social Insects (LASI) has determined the best dose and method for treating hives with oxalic acid, a naturally occurring chemical already being used by beekeepers to control Varroa. The study, published today (Thursday 17 December 2015) in the Journal of Apicultural Research, shows that two of the three methods used by beekeepers to apply the chemical cause harm to bee colonies, resulting in reduced winter survival. But one method - sublimation, by which the chemical is vapourised inside the hive using an electrically heated tool - has no negative effect on the bees. In fact, colonies treated in this way had 20% more bees four months later than untreated colonies. It is also the easiest to use, the deadliest to the mites - killing 97% with one application - and is effective at lower doses than the other methods."
+LSUTigerMom Good find, after watching many Italian beekeeper videos and Don's recommendation it's not hard to make this informed decision to use vaporization by heated element the method of choice. Thanks for your good post.
Hey Don, I really liked your opinion on Vaporizing the OA, and you seem like a very knowledgeable man. Tell what you think about my vaporizer video on my Channel. I have a Facebook Link in the description. You can send me a message either way you want. Thank You. Ed
Wondering to myself if this gadget would work on the honey bees nemesis the Braula fly we have here in Tasmania (hey that's a great idea !!), sometimes called wrongly a bee louse, looks very much like a mite and mistaken for varroa mite, I'm going to buy a unit and do some pioneering into this as no one has tried it on this pest. Wonder how long before Oxalic Acid is banned.
It should not work for foul brood, since foul brood is caused by bacteria and spores can survive up to 40 years. That is why it is recommended that you burn your hive.
Hi Don, 1) Is it true this is only good for Mites that are not capped in the brood? 2) Does repeated vaporizing harm the bees? 3) Does OA contaminate the honey? If so Do you have to leave any Honey that gets exposed to OA - sit for a time before its edible? 4) What Season do you treat with OA in (Fall/Spring)? Or Both? 5) Can you treat in the middle of the Honey Flow? 6) should you wear a respirator/mask when using OA? Thanks~Rob
Don, I'm a first year beekeeper and would like to try this method for treating mites but am a bit confused as to why some say you have to take honey supers off or put a barrier in between when treating with Oxalic acid or you can't use the honey. Of course others say it's okay to use the honey on treated hives. Could you please clarify this concern for me? Seems like any treatment is less effective if the bees in the honey supers aren't treated.
I have to say, I am amazed that Don is not wearing a mask or respirator. I've always been told that OA vapour is dangerous. So far as leaving on honey supers is concerned, conventional wisom over here is that it's OK, but as per usual, the Government always steps in to help and has banned pure OA as a treatment. Of course we can use something else that someone gets rich out of.
Is strange way of doing math, if you have to let it heat up then go for a minute in the hive then let it cool down for 3 minutes. That adds up to 5 minutes the way I do math. it seems like the commercial vapour for 500 would save you a lot more time and money for anybody who has more than 10 hives.
